Ma come si possono dare giudizi cosi' negativi su Tito Gobbi! Lo smentisce in pieno la sua luminosa carriera in tutti i piu' importanti del mondo! Mah che pazienza che ci vuole .. . . . . .
Stupidaggini. Il centro di tutto e' l'interpretazione, e Tito Gobbi interpretava meglio di chiunque altro. Che poi avesse anche una gran voce e' solo importante se la sa usare come strumento di recitazione e dramma - e se c'e' qualcuno che ha la faccia di dirmi che il "Lo vidi in man di Cassio!" non e' un pezzo di dramma da far saltare il teatro, vuol dire che non ha anima.
@ezev8logos ¿Cuestión de gustos?... es cuestión de sentido común; es bueno (o fue, aunque lo siga siendo), porque así es: cantó en los mejores teatros del mundo, le pagaron espléndidamente por ello e hizo una gran carrera. Puede gustar o no, pero independientemente de los gustos: es un gran Otello. A mi particularmente "me gusta" más Vinay, pero mi gusto es poca cosa y no le resta grandeza a los grandes.
@Shiflis2 yo decia referente a otello nada mas, en definitiva Del Monaco fue uno de los mas grandes tenores de la historia, particularmente uno de los mejores Andrea Chenier, pero ha habido mejores otellos como Vickers, Vinay, Giacomini, etc.
che del monaco sia stato un grande nessuno può metterlo in dubbio. ma che qui canti al meglio delle sue possibilità, beh mi permetto di metterlo in dubbio... tutto a mezza voce prima di "ah mille vite" per risparmiarsi. Dopo di che tutto affrettato e slegato, senza il minimo fraseggio. E aggiungo "sangue, sangue, sangue" non è in tono. Tutt'altra cosa il del monaco diretto da karaian
Both of them are great here despite some flaws. Del Monaco's voice was something. It may be too strong/loud for some roles, but for this role, I love it. Gobbi was able to combine acting and his voice together and Iago was an extremely good role for him. The only competition I can think of for this role is Giuseppe Taddei.
Gobbi = the Tita Ruffo degli anni Cinquanta. A natural voice, poca impostazione. Not the best singer for, let`s say, Winterreise; but perfect for many operas. Listen to Victor Maurel (Verdi loved him and composed Otello for his voice) he also sings with zero impostazione. Somebody says: (of Del Monaco) "shouting and screaming .... It was written long before verismo and should be sung differntly." Tamagno sang very much alike Del Monaco, never less than mezzoforte. This is not La cenerentola.
Se volete,posso momentanemente consigliarvi sempre,rimanendo su Youtube,un filmato dove,il fenomenale chitarrista Les Paul,l'inventore della chitarra elletrica, "Les Paul",si esibisce accanto ad un'altro grande chitarrista, Chet Atkins.
L'arte dovrebbe addolcire gli animi ma, quì stiamo diventando tutti nevrastenici !!!
Per rompere con tutte le discussioni fatte,posso permettere di affermare in data odierna che non esiste alcun tenore,baritono,basso,soprano,mezzosoprano e contralto meglio di me,in questo momento !!!
Azz.... da tre giorni ho mal di gola,questo virus...... adesso, mi fumo una sigaretta,per tenere la laringe a posto.
MDM isn't at his best here, which is not to say that he's PAST his best. It's just an off-night for him. His voice doesn't flow freely; and he has some pitch problems. None of which is to say that MDM is BAD
Sorry; cut myself off inadvertently:). Nope, MDM isn't bad here, just not in his best form. At its finest, his huge and clarion voice poured forth freely with spine-shaking squillo, plus high notes that knocked your socks off and put 'em back on:). Gobbi, on the other hand, is very near his best:) --
Gobbi non sarà stato un cantante eccezzionale,(sapeva cantare però....)ma era Jago ,in tutto : nelle movenze ,le occhiate,i mille colori della voce,le intenzioni. FAVOLOSO !
" Gobbi non sarà stato un cantante eccezionale " ? ? ? ? ? La invito ad ascoltarselo un po' meglio prima di scrivere certe sciocchezze senza senso e fondamento : Gobbi è stato uno dei migliori baritoni di tutti i tempi e sminuirlo in questo modo è di una riduttività a dir poco sconcertante !
Se lei fosse stato un pò più attento , la mia era una risposta a chi mi aveva preceduto ,dicendo che lo spessore vocale di Gobbi non era paragonabile ad altri baritoni. Gobbi non aveva la voce di Bastianini o Cappuccilli,ma sotto certi aspetti io lo preferisco ,perchè era un artista autentico ed unico. Per me è un cantante eccezzionale sotto questo aspetto. STIA UN PO' ATTENTO A DARE GIUDIZI LA PROSSIMA VOLTA :
Riconfermo quello che le ho già detto : T. Gobbi è stato immenso, sia in senso vocale che teatrale, e fare paragoni con altri baritoni è quatomai riduttivo, soprattutto in virtù del fatto che E. Bastianini e P. Cappuccilli ( che adoro anch'io ) avevano due tipologie di voci completamente diverse da quella di Gobbi. I miei saluti.
Scusi se insisto. I paragoni non li ho fatti io ! Ho risposto solo ad un'altra persona. Ma anche se si volessero fare paragoni,li stiamo facendo con Cappuccilli e Bastianini ,2 artisti diversi da Gobbi ,ma pur sempre grandi,non li stiamo facendo con 2 inetti ! Non è per niente riduttivo ,come dice lei. Io ho 24 anni e ascolto Gobbi da quando ero piccolo. Per me è stato per i baritoni quello che la Callas è stata per i soprani,se non di più.Quindi ho ascoltato Gobbi ,stia tranquillo. Saluti .
Forse lo spessore vocale di Gobbi confrontato con "baritononi da vocione" come per esempi Guelfi o Warren potrà non piacere, ma tutto il resto c'è eccome....
TG was such an "old school" singer. He always produced such a warm, lovely tone no matter the role. Drama achieved through the art of singing, not over singing. Try to find his like today. I know MdM was famed for this role but I find all his recodings disappointing. Perhaps he was better live? Here the voice is ugly & he was often under pitch- an off night??
X DonCavagna: "Qui sembrano due amici che parlano normalmente"...non era forse nelle intenzioni di Verdi che Iago fosse rappresentato come un brav'uomo esteriormente?
Che grandi critici che ci sono qui su YouTube !!! Se T. Gobbi non sa cantare allora siamo messi proprio male. Ma come diavolo fate a denigrare il più grande baritono della storia del canto ????? T. Gobbi è stato OGGETTIVAMENTE grandissimo e non serve assolutamente a nulla fare insensati paragoni con altri baritoni. Chi lo definisce " inascoltabile " dimostra, a mio giudizio, una cosa soltanto, di non avere orecchio e nessun tipo di competenza in materia di opera. Viva Tito Gobbi !
@31122051 Guardi, se lei risponde a tutti questi potenziali critici, diventa matto!
a mio avviso questi due artisti, nel vero senso della parola, sono tra i più grandi interpreti di Jago e Otello, uno per l'interpretazione, l'altro per la voce, e nessuno si è mai avvicinato a tanta grandezza! un saluto, e mi scusi per il (matto). alla prossima
@31122051 e ci risiamo col più grnde baritono della storia del canto. Le ripeto, caro amico, che un cantante ò grande ( figuriamoci il più grande), quando, oltre ad interpretare magistralmente i personaggi, ne possiede appieno tutte le note, stante che, dall'unione di canto corretto e grande fraseggio sortisce un grande personaggio.In Gobbi questo aviene solo parzialmente per gli evidenti limiti tecnici ( nel registro acuto), che tuttora me lo rendono ingrato in Verdi ( Falstaff escluso) A pres
@31122051 mi perdoni caro amico se rientro in una polemica " Gobbiana". Un grande cantante ( figuriamoci il più grande) nasce da una perfetta unione di grande canto e grande fraseggio, stanti queste due caratteristiche avremmo dei personaggi impersonati alla perfezione. Questo in Gobbi avviene solo in parte, avendo il baritono veneto evidenti limiti vocali nel registro acuto, che oggi, lo rendono ingrato assai in Verdi ( eccettuato Falstaff), e in difficoltà in alcuni passaggi della Tosca
Gobbi era il più grande intrallazzatore che per la carriera avrebbe venduto la madre...... Ci sono episodi dove lui, pur di cantare al posto di colleghi suoi contemporanei, si offriva alla metò del prezzo !
Titto Gobbi sings like Titto Ruffo...Mario Del Monaco is devine...their voices sound very even, sometimes they are alike because of the common vocal school de l`U...very inspiring, sehr lebendig! Fantastisch!
Radio Broadcasting Association of Japan invited Italian Opera Team 8 times during 1956 - 1976 in order to promote opera in Japan.
This OTELLO was performed at the 2nd invitation to Japan in 1959. Opera fans in Japan were much moved by 2 big actors, Del Monaco and Gobbi. They were great !
Just for a information, Simionato, Noni, Stella, Taddei etc. joined at the 1st invitation in 1956.
Granted, it's an off night for MDM. But how many contemporary tenors have this much sheer voice on an off night? MDM's Otello remained powerful even at less than his best. And Gobbi was a great Iago. It's wonderful to have part of his portrayal captured on film. Regarding their occasionally problematic intonation: get over it, everybody. THIS IS LIVE OPERA, in which such things sometimes happen with the finest artists --
I will make a correction before someone else does. This was NOT the tour where he had to take on Radames unexpectedly. I was mistaken on the date. But I was right in saying that MDM was having an off night here. He did have them, and he was still in prime voice in 1959
This was an off night for MDM. This tour of Japan saw him take on Radames unexpectedly because of a cancellation. He was overworked on this tour and this Otello just shows him to be a little off his game, but he was in his prime voice until around 1969. He kept it that long. MDM had the same laryngologist in New York as Hines, Leo Reckford. Hines said that MDM would often ask Reckford if he needed to change his technique. Reckford told him, "Don't change a thing. You are MDM."
Gobbi does go a bit sharp in the duet, but consider that this is live, the orchestra is being allowed to thunder away and half bury 2 massive voices, and these are two of the most difficult roles in the rep.
I got chills, despite the inevitable flaws of a live performance.
When I conduct I go for passion above perfection. If I can get both great, but if I have to choose between them passion wins.
HE WAS NOT PAST HIS PRIME HE WAS 44 AND I HEARD HIM DO IT THAT VERY YEAR IN NOV. AT LA SCALA AND HE WAS WONDERFUL AND BIG VOICED WITH NO STRAIN HE SANG IT WITH LEONIE R. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN AN OFF NIGHT BUT HE WAS NOT PAST IT IN 1959 AND STILL I HAVE HEARD DOMINGO AND HEPPNER DO IT IN HOUSE LIVE AND DOMINGO WAS NOT FOR ME AS FINE IN THE ROLE, HEPPNER WITH HIS LYRIC SPINTO GAVE A GOOD READING BUT DEL MONACO A DRAMATIC FIT IT LIKE A GLOVE, VINAY also and martinelli VERY GOOD.
I am so thankful that these live performances were captured on video so that we can enjoy them decades later! Del Monaco and Gobbi were two great artists.
Past his prime? In 1959 he still had plenty of voice. But he is very disappointing here. Nothing compared to several of his other performances. I don't think most people going to see these performances has the original score in front of them and so I never take this part of the 'interpretation' into consideration. Verdi may or may not have approved. del Monaco was a great Otello and that was that. Not the greatest, but certainly the best we've had in the past 50 years.
completely agree with you. I actually think Del monaco ruins this role (i know everyone will attack me given how famous MDM was for thi) by trying to turn it into verismo, shouting and screaming around the place. It was written long before verismo and should be sung differntly. Vickers and Domingo are miles better.
is (or was) Domingo a tenor.....? please, don't joke... we can talk about Vickers or Vinay. MDM wasjust MDM, you can find critics, but he was a unique singer for one of the longest careers in opera world.
@Matt54e Thanks for your words. You must have fine ears!! MdM was a myth... and a legend... and nothing else! Your also right, that Vickers and Domingo are miles better, bus the very best Otello until now is Giovanni Martinelli! There are some clips on youtube; listen and enjoy... Best wishes, William
@williamforever1958Like DelMonaco or not.Vickers voice was very pitchy and fatty, Although he was impressive at times.Domingo is plainly not suited for the role.Domingo is a lyric spinto at best and simply doesn't compare to the great Dramatic Otello's. Like Martinelli, Merli,Zenatello Pertile Piccaluga Vinay.Del Monaco also had impeccable diction&phrasing, along with a capability in the Recitatives that Domingo never had.Del Monaco never had the priviledge of enhancing his recording as PD did
@sugarbist I don't understand, just from a theoretical standpoint why Domingo has and has had such trouble with his top given that his voice doesn't have the weight of those others you mention. Furthermore, it's odd and confusing that he seems to be making a run of baritone roles (his Boccanegra was excellent), which seems odd given that he's merely lyric spinto.
@8x8MaVerick8x8As a baritone,it's not really confusing.When a tenor sings as a baritone, the tessitura is obviously lower& the voice is more comfortable because it's not being stressed& taxed as it is in the tenor roles.Voices do darken with age &it seems that Domingo is in a comfort zone with Boccanegra,which is fine.I'm really not sure why PD has a problem with his top,But when singing the lighter roles like Traviata,Butterfly&Rigoletto,PD doesn't seem to have too much trouble with high notes,
@8x8MaVerick8x8 When Domingo sings the spinto roles like Aida Chenier Trovatore etc. He seems to labor significantly,shortening his phrasing&squeezing out his hi notes which often fall short,perhaps because of the demanding tessitura or because his voice is not suited for the spinto roles as the voices I mentioned earlier.I saw him in Pagliacci in the 90s & he was hardly audible.He also left out the 2nd B natural in No Pagliaccio Non Son which I thought the 1st was a B flat. A WORLD CLASS TENOR?
@sugarbist What you say makes sense. The part that confuses me though is that if his voice isn't suited for spinto roles, it's not clear for what he is best suited. I mean you can dislike the voice or love it, but one way or the other, it's very hard to classify. He's obviously not leggiero, doesn't have the light, ringing ease of a lyric, here you argue against the popular classification of spinto (I'm not challenging you, here, mind), he doesn't really seem to have the thrust
@8x8MaVerick8x8Just my opinion.As I mentioned earlier.I think Domingo's voice was more suited for roles like Traviata,Butterfly,Rigoletto,Ballo,Boheme,Fedora,Don Carlo,Werther.Louisa Miller,Hoffman Fidelio etc. and then he could have possibly crossed over to some occasional Toscas,Cavalleria,Ernani,Early Trovatore was pretty good.Maybe transitioning occasionally to the spinto roles would have put less stress on his voice.I'm still not sure that would have helped his adventurous hi notes.Continue
@8x8MaVerick8x8 Domingo has a fine quality of voice, but as you say he does not have the thrust to be a spinto.Other fine lyric spintos are Bjorling, Bergonzi,Peerce,Lamberti,Prevedi,Aragall,& perhaps Raimondi.Domingo does not compare in size of voice to Spinto tenors like Bonisoli, Tucker,Barioni,Campagnano,Fillipeschi,Volpi,Caruso,De Muro,Corelli,Martinucci,Penno&Limarilli.Aound1990Domingo went on an unsuccessful campaign to lower the universal pitch.Every instrument would have to be repitched
@8x8MaVerick8x8 Domingo also has a reputation for transposing entire operas & arias beyond acceptable practices.There's is a Di Quella Pira on YT that Domingo sings without a high note, A Ch'ella Mi Creda transposed a Half tone down on a concert platform.(World Class tenor?)PD does sound wonderful in the Zarzuelas,which carry a lower tessitura.Domingo is also a fine actor&good musician when not stressed by the heavier roles.If my profile of PD is accurate,I don't believe he is 1 of the best ever
@8x8MaVerick8x8 For super dramatic roles or heldentenor roles. So it doesn't seem to fit in anywhere nicely. Now there are, of course, unique voices, but I just wonder what the general idea is for him. He's done well obviously and been very versatile, but it's not clear what rep really "fits" the voice well.
"Il rio destino impreco che al Moro ti donò..." Sentire il disprezzo che riesce a infondere sulla parola "Moro"... E' il suo di disprezzo o è quello del Cassio immaginario? E poi... "lo vidi in mano di Cassio...", pieno di livore... E' verista? Può essere... Ma questo basta , almeno secondo me, a fare un grendissimo Jago... Gobbi, sei un mito!!!
I really don`t think that Mac Neil was a great Jago. I saw him in Vienna together with Domingo and Freni and we were not impressed but thought that only Cappuccilli would be the ideal part for those two. Gobbi and del Monaco together with tebaldi were the ideal trio in earlier times. Vickers was a great Othello too.
Let's not get carried away here. Del Monaco and Gobbi were two of the greatest, no question about that.
But this particular clip has all the flaws of a live performance and then some. Gobbi is a semitone sharp for the first couple of bars. Del Monaco seems short-breathed during the taxing climaxes of the duet. And so on.
It would no doubt have been fantastic to see this performance live, but as a recording it is no more than average.
Yes, Gobbi is sharp at the beginning, which made me think the entire track was off, but they get back in line within a few bars.
Also, I'm rather surprised Del Monaco never broke an ankle falling off those platform shoes during his career (or did it happen and the blame laid elsewhere?).
Could somene please explain to me? Del Monaco seemed to use a "sprechstimme" often in his portrayal of Otello. From where does this come. Is this traditional or generous use of "artistic liberty". He uses it also in Otello's aria. It just seems stanges, but perhaps there is a reasoning behind it of which I have no knowledge
Impresionante, la misma sonoridad (proyeccion en potencia) tanto Del Mónaco como Gobbi, difícilmente un cantante podría ponerse a la altura del grandísimo Mario del Mónaco, y Tito Gobbi hizo una interpretación sencillamente espectacular.
Una chicca questo video! FANTASTICI ED IMMORTALI Del Monaco e Gobbi nei loro ruoli di riferimento. Tutti gli altri cantanti (anche quelli citati qui sotto) dovrebbero solo INCHINARSI di fronte a cotanta grandezza.
for all you guys are saying, the best i've seen of this scene is vickers and macneil. way better baritone singer way better tenor actor and just plain more appropriate guys for the roles.
Can't disagre with you more. When we performed Otello a few years ago, whenever older choristers recalled past great Otello performances, they always mentioned MDM and Gobbi. Vickers got mentioned in passing as an afterthought and MacNeil never came up. I do think that MacNeil had far away the more beautiful baritone voice by light years, but he was not a better Iago.
to be honest I think i jumped the gun on saying macneil was better than gobi, but Vickers still IMO was a way better othello, even though he wasn't nearly the singer. His performances were just so intense it was amazing.
Gobbi is such a tremendous interpreter that any technical flaws he may have are totally irrelevant. For Otello, though, I'm always torn...Vickers' top is not very good, but he IS really intense and convincing. Monaco's entire voice is amazing but he alway seems bug eyed and just loony; for me there's little to make him a compelling protagonist. Domingo, is perhaps the middle-of-the-road solution...
No one could top Gobbi in this role, as for Del Monaco he may over act but god that voice was magnificent. What I wouldnt give to hear sound a Tenor like his today.
There are no better Otellos than MDM. Domingo is also great, but I wouldn't say, he's better. Here Monaco a bit spares with his voice. One year erlier in the MET he gave more. But the energy he relays is fantastic. I love his agonic pianos, while Jago spaeks about il fazzoletto. Gobbi's voice is full of irony, colours, brutality, mortal game.
what a great thing to hear & see- wow!
hswatnik 7 months ago
Ma come si possono dare giudizi cosi' negativi su Tito Gobbi! Lo smentisce in pieno la sua luminosa carriera in tutti i piu' importanti del mondo! Mah che pazienza che ci vuole .. . . . . .
lafca88 7 months ago
Stupidaggini. Il centro di tutto e' l'interpretazione, e Tito Gobbi interpretava meglio di chiunque altro. Che poi avesse anche una gran voce e' solo importante se la sa usare come strumento di recitazione e dramma - e se c'e' qualcuno che ha la faccia di dirmi che il "Lo vidi in man di Cassio!" non e' un pezzo di dramma da far saltare il teatro, vuol dire che non ha anima.
FabioPBarbieri 8 months ago
Man, that's a lot of testosterone!
telephilia 1 year ago 2
Love Gobbi but MDM's voice is dry. Almost screamed his high notes
richbari 1 year ago
Grandiosi!!!
TheDarthsala 1 year ago
es muy bueno, pero no creo que sea tan buen otello como sus fanáticos dicen, pero bueno es cuestion de gustos
ezev8logos 1 year ago
@ezev8logos ¿Cuestión de gustos?... es cuestión de sentido común; es bueno (o fue, aunque lo siga siendo), porque así es: cantó en los mejores teatros del mundo, le pagaron espléndidamente por ello e hizo una gran carrera. Puede gustar o no, pero independientemente de los gustos: es un gran Otello. A mi particularmente "me gusta" más Vinay, pero mi gusto es poca cosa y no le resta grandeza a los grandes.
Shiflis2 1 year ago
@Shiflis2 yo decia referente a otello nada mas, en definitiva Del Monaco fue uno de los mas grandes tenores de la historia, particularmente uno de los mejores Andrea Chenier, pero ha habido mejores otellos como Vickers, Vinay, Giacomini, etc.
ezev8logos 1 year ago
che del monaco sia stato un grande nessuno può metterlo in dubbio. ma che qui canti al meglio delle sue possibilità, beh mi permetto di metterlo in dubbio... tutto a mezza voce prima di "ah mille vite" per risparmiarsi. Dopo di che tutto affrettato e slegato, senza il minimo fraseggio. E aggiungo "sangue, sangue, sangue" non è in tono. Tutt'altra cosa il del monaco diretto da karaian
79caio 1 year ago
Both of them are great here despite some flaws. Del Monaco's voice was something. It may be too strong/loud for some roles, but for this role, I love it. Gobbi was able to combine acting and his voice together and Iago was an extremely good role for him. The only competition I can think of for this role is Giuseppe Taddei.
kh3205 1 year ago
Per dir male di Tito Gobbi, bisogna essere proprio in mala fede...
Cosi vale per Del Monaco... dove sono due interpreti piu grandi di questi?
Tutti i movimenti che fanno , sono consoni a quello che dicono... IMMORTALI!!!
UN SALUTO
federic017 1 year ago
jajajaja, las piernitas de Del Monaco!
cantanteporsiempre 1 year ago
Grandi..........
nabucco68 1 year ago
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Gobbi = the Tita Ruffo degli anni Cinquanta. A natural voice, poca impostazione. Not the best singer for, let`s say, Winterreise; but perfect for many operas. Listen to Victor Maurel (Verdi loved him and composed Otello for his voice) he also sings with zero impostazione. Somebody says: (of Del Monaco) "shouting and screaming .... It was written long before verismo and should be sung differntly." Tamagno sang very much alike Del Monaco, never less than mezzoforte. This is not La cenerentola.
f1a6b3 1 year ago
Both of them were gigantic, second to no ones,,,>JRT
josemuso1 1 year ago
cercate Chet Atkins & Les Paul
brano 1/2
flavikio 1 year ago
Se volete,posso momentanemente consigliarvi sempre,rimanendo su Youtube,un filmato dove,il fenomenale chitarrista Les Paul,l'inventore della chitarra elletrica, "Les Paul",si esibisce accanto ad un'altro grande chitarrista, Chet Atkins.
fatemi sapere,se vi è piaciuto.
flavikio 1 year ago
L'arte dovrebbe addolcire gli animi ma, quì stiamo diventando tutti nevrastenici !!!
Per rompere con tutte le discussioni fatte,posso permettere di affermare in data odierna che non esiste alcun tenore,baritono,basso,soprano,mezzosoprano e contralto meglio di me,in questo momento !!!
Azz.... da tre giorni ho mal di gola,questo virus...... adesso, mi fumo una sigaretta,per tenere la laringe a posto.
flavikio 1 year ago
What an Otello!!! Perfectly suiting voice, Mr. del Monaco.
LordMgls 2 years ago
Give me a tenor like Del Monaco now a days and I would be supremely happy.
malfada22 2 years ago
Gobbi is wonderful, but look at the size of Del Monaco's shoes! Even though his voice was huge, he was small in stature.
revivaljesus 2 years ago 2
MDM isn't at his best here, which is not to say that he's PAST his best. It's just an off-night for him. His voice doesn't flow freely; and he has some pitch problems. None of which is to say that MDM is BAD
stevevandien 2 years ago
Sorry; cut myself off inadvertently:). Nope, MDM isn't bad here, just not in his best form. At its finest, his huge and clarion voice poured forth freely with spine-shaking squillo, plus high notes that knocked your socks off and put 'em back on:). Gobbi, on the other hand, is very near his best:) --
stevevandien 2 years ago
24yotenor , yes totaly unimpressesd as we all would be with your little peanut voice.
tenorismo 2 years ago
thurougly unimpressed with del Monaco's singing in this. The overdubbed version was far better.
24yotenor 2 years ago
Gobbi non sarà stato un cantante eccezzionale,(sapeva cantare però....)ma era Jago ,in tutto : nelle movenze ,le occhiate,i mille colori della voce,le intenzioni. FAVOLOSO !
Tostuine 2 years ago
" Gobbi non sarà stato un cantante eccezionale " ? ? ? ? ? La invito ad ascoltarselo un po' meglio prima di scrivere certe sciocchezze senza senso e fondamento : Gobbi è stato uno dei migliori baritoni di tutti i tempi e sminuirlo in questo modo è di una riduttività a dir poco sconcertante !
31122051 2 years ago
Se lei fosse stato un pò più attento , la mia era una risposta a chi mi aveva preceduto ,dicendo che lo spessore vocale di Gobbi non era paragonabile ad altri baritoni. Gobbi non aveva la voce di Bastianini o Cappuccilli,ma sotto certi aspetti io lo preferisco ,perchè era un artista autentico ed unico. Per me è un cantante eccezzionale sotto questo aspetto. STIA UN PO' ATTENTO A DARE GIUDIZI LA PROSSIMA VOLTA :
Tostuine 2 years ago
Riconfermo quello che le ho già detto : T. Gobbi è stato immenso, sia in senso vocale che teatrale, e fare paragoni con altri baritoni è quatomai riduttivo, soprattutto in virtù del fatto che E. Bastianini e P. Cappuccilli ( che adoro anch'io ) avevano due tipologie di voci completamente diverse da quella di Gobbi. I miei saluti.
31122051 2 years ago
Scusi se insisto. I paragoni non li ho fatti io ! Ho risposto solo ad un'altra persona. Ma anche se si volessero fare paragoni,li stiamo facendo con Cappuccilli e Bastianini ,2 artisti diversi da Gobbi ,ma pur sempre grandi,non li stiamo facendo con 2 inetti ! Non è per niente riduttivo ,come dice lei. Io ho 24 anni e ascolto Gobbi da quando ero piccolo. Per me è stato per i baritoni quello che la Callas è stata per i soprani,se non di più.Quindi ho ascoltato Gobbi ,stia tranquillo. Saluti .
Tostuine 2 years ago
Del monaco sta a Otello come Gobbi sta e Jago.
Forse lo spessore vocale di Gobbi confrontato con "baritononi da vocione" come per esempi Guelfi o Warren potrà non piacere, ma tutto il resto c'è eccome....
odontotazio 2 years ago
Gobbi non aveva più il timbro dei primi anni ma dire che fa schifo è solamente che vergognoso ...
qualche anno fa fu tirata una serie di 15 francobolli con altrettanti cantanti lirici..Gobbi faceva parte di quella esigua serie (15 su 10000)
tanto che Gualerzi fece una trasmissione ad hoc alla radio con molte puntate ...
seguirono tante discussioni ma fu così
Erano le poste inglesi...
basti dire che Gobbi nel 1942 fece Wozzeck a Roma..
mongemark 2 years ago
TG was such an "old school" singer. He always produced such a warm, lovely tone no matter the role. Drama achieved through the art of singing, not over singing. Try to find his like today. I know MdM was famed for this role but I find all his recodings disappointing. Perhaps he was better live? Here the voice is ugly & he was often under pitch- an off night??
Lovelytenor1 2 years ago
X DonCavagna: "Qui sembrano due amici che parlano normalmente"...non era forse nelle intenzioni di Verdi che Iago fosse rappresentato come un brav'uomo esteriormente?
Almus83 2 years ago
Greatest Baritone of all time!
boxingin 2 years ago
Che grandi critici che ci sono qui su YouTube !!! Se T. Gobbi non sa cantare allora siamo messi proprio male. Ma come diavolo fate a denigrare il più grande baritono della storia del canto ????? T. Gobbi è stato OGGETTIVAMENTE grandissimo e non serve assolutamente a nulla fare insensati paragoni con altri baritoni. Chi lo definisce " inascoltabile " dimostra, a mio giudizio, una cosa soltanto, di non avere orecchio e nessun tipo di competenza in materia di opera. Viva Tito Gobbi !
31122051 2 years ago 17
Viva Tito Gobbi et Viva Mario del Monaco
italopera 2 years ago 14
@31122051 Guardi, se lei risponde a tutti questi potenziali critici, diventa matto!
a mio avviso questi due artisti, nel vero senso della parola, sono tra i più grandi interpreti di Jago e Otello, uno per l'interpretazione, l'altro per la voce, e nessuno si è mai avvicinato a tanta grandezza! un saluto, e mi scusi per il (matto). alla prossima
federic017 2 years ago
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31122051 2 years ago
@31122051 e ci risiamo col più grnde baritono della storia del canto. Le ripeto, caro amico, che un cantante ò grande ( figuriamoci il più grande), quando, oltre ad interpretare magistralmente i personaggi, ne possiede appieno tutte le note, stante che, dall'unione di canto corretto e grande fraseggio sortisce un grande personaggio.In Gobbi questo aviene solo parzialmente per gli evidenti limiti tecnici ( nel registro acuto), che tuttora me lo rendono ingrato in Verdi ( Falstaff escluso) A pres
francescop1023 10 months ago
@31122051 mi perdoni caro amico se rientro in una polemica " Gobbiana". Un grande cantante ( figuriamoci il più grande) nasce da una perfetta unione di grande canto e grande fraseggio, stanti queste due caratteristiche avremmo dei personaggi impersonati alla perfezione. Questo in Gobbi avviene solo in parte, avendo il baritono veneto evidenti limiti vocali nel registro acuto, che oggi, lo rendono ingrato assai in Verdi ( eccettuato Falstaff), e in difficoltà in alcuni passaggi della Tosca
francescop1023 10 months ago
@31122051 concordo!
liEder89 8 months ago
Gobbi era il più grande intrallazzatore che per la carriera avrebbe venduto la madre...... Ci sono episodi dove lui, pur di cantare al posto di colleghi suoi contemporanei, si offriva alla metò del prezzo !
circearte 2 years ago
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bodiloto 2 years ago
Sul Iago di Gobbi devo dire che è bravo ma ha colleghi coevi che, secondo me, gli stanno 4 spanne sopra. Penso a Warren e Colzani, più melliflui.
Qui sembrano due amici che parlano normalmente, mentre qui Iago lo mette nella rete... Purtroppo Iago non è Scarpia, comunque AVERCENE oggi!
DonCavagna 2 years ago
Grande Mario del Monaco, grande voce, peccato per il poco rispetto della partitura, invece un orrendo Tito Gobbi, veramente inascoltabile!!
DinDonDan94 2 years ago
ma ti rendi conto di chi hai il coraggio di criticare? due cantanti cosi? tu sei meglio? metti un tuo video, facci sentire come abbai!
nnsochedirti 2 years ago
1) Del Monaco è il migliore otello senza dubbio solo che ha talmente tanto talento che si può permettere delle modifiche alla partitura.
2) IN QUESTO VIDEO Gobbi fa veramente schifo, non metto in dubbio che sia stato un bravo baritono.
3)Stai calmino e ascolta Bastianini nella parte di Iago. Così senti come si canta!!!
DinDonDan94 2 years ago
Guarda...uno che ha come nick "dindondan" può essere due cose: o stonato come una campana o è un prete che di conseguenza ha la voce da prete ahah!
questi sono due eterni dei, insieme a bastianini. ma tu che non sei nessuno non ti puoi permettere di criticarli!
ma poi come fai a dire che qui facevano schifo? attraverso un video...lo potresti dire se eri presente in sala! eri presente?
Io non lo ero ma queste sono le voci di Dio che cantano quindi indiscutibili!
nnsochedirti 2 years ago 3
Titto Gobbi sings like Titto Ruffo...Mario Del Monaco is devine...their voices sound very even, sometimes they are alike because of the common vocal school de l`U...very inspiring, sehr lebendig! Fantastisch!
svjatazarov 2 years ago
Radio Broadcasting Association of Japan invited Italian Opera Team 8 times during 1956 - 1976 in order to promote opera in Japan.
This OTELLO was performed at the 2nd invitation to Japan in 1959. Opera fans in Japan were much moved by 2 big actors, Del Monaco and Gobbi. They were great !
Just for a information, Simionato, Noni, Stella, Taddei etc. joined at the 1st invitation in 1956.
rosen10kavalier 2 years ago
I have the radio broadcast of one of these Otello performances in Tokyo and Del Monaco is back on the top of his game.
bAdAbAdA13 2 years ago
Granted, it's an off night for MDM. But how many contemporary tenors have this much sheer voice on an off night? MDM's Otello remained powerful even at less than his best. And Gobbi was a great Iago. It's wonderful to have part of his portrayal captured on film. Regarding their occasionally problematic intonation: get over it, everybody. THIS IS LIVE OPERA, in which such things sometimes happen with the finest artists --
stevevandien 2 years ago
Due grandi mai superati ad oggi e penso che non lo saranno mai
cicchettocicchetto 2 years ago 3
due "dei" insuperabili nei rispettivi ruoli. Iago è in gobbi, il maleficio personalizzato, drl monaco è otello per eccellenza
cicchettocicchetto 2 years ago 2
VIva Mario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ivanopera 3 years ago 2
I will make a correction before someone else does. This was NOT the tour where he had to take on Radames unexpectedly. I was mistaken on the date. But I was right in saying that MDM was having an off night here. He did have them, and he was still in prime voice in 1959
cameratamaestro 3 years ago
This was an off night for MDM. This tour of Japan saw him take on Radames unexpectedly because of a cancellation. He was overworked on this tour and this Otello just shows him to be a little off his game, but he was in his prime voice until around 1969. He kept it that long. MDM had the same laryngologist in New York as Hines, Leo Reckford. Hines said that MDM would often ask Reckford if he needed to change his technique. Reckford told him, "Don't change a thing. You are MDM."
cameratamaestro 3 years ago
Many interesting comments made here...
Gobbi does go a bit sharp in the duet, but consider that this is live, the orchestra is being allowed to thunder away and half bury 2 massive voices, and these are two of the most difficult roles in the rep.
I got chills, despite the inevitable flaws of a live performance.
When I conduct I go for passion above perfection. If I can get both great, but if I have to choose between them passion wins.
5 stars.
lovelymess 3 years ago
HE WAS NOT PAST HIS PRIME HE WAS 44 AND I HEARD HIM DO IT THAT VERY YEAR IN NOV. AT LA SCALA AND HE WAS WONDERFUL AND BIG VOICED WITH NO STRAIN HE SANG IT WITH LEONIE R. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN AN OFF NIGHT BUT HE WAS NOT PAST IT IN 1959 AND STILL I HAVE HEARD DOMINGO AND HEPPNER DO IT IN HOUSE LIVE AND DOMINGO WAS NOT FOR ME AS FINE IN THE ROLE, HEPPNER WITH HIS LYRIC SPINTO GAVE A GOOD READING BUT DEL MONACO A DRAMATIC FIT IT LIKE A GLOVE, VINAY also and martinelli VERY GOOD.
pearlmuth3 3 years ago
Wow, even the orchestra sound bad.
fecheverriam 3 years ago
Noone today has the courage (...or the talent and voice) to do what these two did here!
cleanears 3 years ago
I am so thankful that these live performances were captured on video so that we can enjoy them decades later! Del Monaco and Gobbi were two great artists.
bellacantatrice 3 years ago
I actually think MDM sounds pretty bad here. No legato and out of tune. Gobbi is so sharp it's impossible to listen to him.
tdeane34 3 years ago
He's just past his prime and he's also having a bad night.
phantom4087 3 years ago
Past his prime? In 1959 he still had plenty of voice. But he is very disappointing here. Nothing compared to several of his other performances. I don't think most people going to see these performances has the original score in front of them and so I never take this part of the 'interpretation' into consideration. Verdi may or may not have approved. del Monaco was a great Otello and that was that. Not the greatest, but certainly the best we've had in the past 50 years.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago
completely agree with you. I actually think Del monaco ruins this role (i know everyone will attack me given how famous MDM was for thi) by trying to turn it into verismo, shouting and screaming around the place. It was written long before verismo and should be sung differntly. Vickers and Domingo are miles better.
Matt54e 3 years ago
How would you sing If you were about to kill someone out of rage?
crwv 3 years ago
is (or was) Domingo a tenor.....? please, don't joke... we can talk about Vickers or Vinay. MDM wasjust MDM, you can find critics, but he was a unique singer for one of the longest careers in opera world.
gaemp 3 years ago 3
@Matt54e Thanks for your words. You must have fine ears!! MdM was a myth... and a legend... and nothing else! Your also right, that Vickers and Domingo are miles better, bus the very best Otello until now is Giovanni Martinelli! There are some clips on youtube; listen and enjoy... Best wishes, William
williamforever1958 1 year ago
@williamforever1958Like DelMonaco or not.Vickers voice was very pitchy and fatty, Although he was impressive at times.Domingo is plainly not suited for the role.Domingo is a lyric spinto at best and simply doesn't compare to the great Dramatic Otello's. Like Martinelli, Merli,Zenatello Pertile Piccaluga Vinay.Del Monaco also had impeccable diction&phrasing, along with a capability in the Recitatives that Domingo never had.Del Monaco never had the priviledge of enhancing his recording as PD did
sugarbist 7 months ago
@sugarbist I don't understand, just from a theoretical standpoint why Domingo has and has had such trouble with his top given that his voice doesn't have the weight of those others you mention. Furthermore, it's odd and confusing that he seems to be making a run of baritone roles (his Boccanegra was excellent), which seems odd given that he's merely lyric spinto.
8x8MaVerick8x8 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8As a baritone,it's not really confusing.When a tenor sings as a baritone, the tessitura is obviously lower& the voice is more comfortable because it's not being stressed& taxed as it is in the tenor roles.Voices do darken with age &it seems that Domingo is in a comfort zone with Boccanegra,which is fine.I'm really not sure why PD has a problem with his top,But when singing the lighter roles like Traviata,Butterfly&Rigoletto,PD doesn't seem to have too much trouble with high notes,
sugarbist 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8 When Domingo sings the spinto roles like Aida Chenier Trovatore etc. He seems to labor significantly,shortening his phrasing&squeezing out his hi notes which often fall short,perhaps because of the demanding tessitura or because his voice is not suited for the spinto roles as the voices I mentioned earlier.I saw him in Pagliacci in the 90s & he was hardly audible.He also left out the 2nd B natural in No Pagliaccio Non Son which I thought the 1st was a B flat. A WORLD CLASS TENOR?
sugarbist 4 months ago
@sugarbist What you say makes sense. The part that confuses me though is that if his voice isn't suited for spinto roles, it's not clear for what he is best suited. I mean you can dislike the voice or love it, but one way or the other, it's very hard to classify. He's obviously not leggiero, doesn't have the light, ringing ease of a lyric, here you argue against the popular classification of spinto (I'm not challenging you, here, mind), he doesn't really seem to have the thrust
8x8MaVerick8x8 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8Just my opinion.As I mentioned earlier.I think Domingo's voice was more suited for roles like Traviata,Butterfly,Rigoletto,Ballo,Boheme,Fedora,Don Carlo,Werther.Louisa Miller,Hoffman Fidelio etc. and then he could have possibly crossed over to some occasional Toscas,Cavalleria,Ernani,Early Trovatore was pretty good.Maybe transitioning occasionally to the spinto roles would have put less stress on his voice.I'm still not sure that would have helped his adventurous hi notes.Continue
sugarbist 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8 Domingo has a fine quality of voice, but as you say he does not have the thrust to be a spinto.Other fine lyric spintos are Bjorling, Bergonzi,Peerce,Lamberti,Prevedi,Aragall,& perhaps Raimondi.Domingo does not compare in size of voice to Spinto tenors like Bonisoli, Tucker,Barioni,Campagnano,Fillipeschi,Volpi,Caruso,De Muro,Corelli,Martinucci,Penno&Limarilli.Aound1990Domingo went on an unsuccessful campaign to lower the universal pitch.Every instrument would have to be repitched
sugarbist 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8 Domingo also has a reputation for transposing entire operas & arias beyond acceptable practices.There's is a Di Quella Pira on YT that Domingo sings without a high note, A Ch'ella Mi Creda transposed a Half tone down on a concert platform.(World Class tenor?)PD does sound wonderful in the Zarzuelas,which carry a lower tessitura.Domingo is also a fine actor&good musician when not stressed by the heavier roles.If my profile of PD is accurate,I don't believe he is 1 of the best ever
sugarbist 4 months ago
@8x8MaVerick8x8 For super dramatic roles or heldentenor roles. So it doesn't seem to fit in anywhere nicely. Now there are, of course, unique voices, but I just wonder what the general idea is for him. He's done well obviously and been very versatile, but it's not clear what rep really "fits" the voice well.
8x8MaVerick8x8 4 months ago
Do you even know what "sharp" means?
nisticom 3 years ago
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Yes. Do You?
tdeane34 3 years ago
"Il rio destino impreco che al Moro ti donò..." Sentire il disprezzo che riesce a infondere sulla parola "Moro"... E' il suo di disprezzo o è quello del Cassio immaginario? E poi... "lo vidi in mano di Cassio...", pieno di livore... E' verista? Può essere... Ma questo basta , almeno secondo me, a fare un grendissimo Jago... Gobbi, sei un mito!!!
gohar002 3 years ago 4
I really don`t think that Mac Neil was a great Jago. I saw him in Vienna together with Domingo and Freni and we were not impressed but thought that only Cappuccilli would be the ideal part for those two. Gobbi and del Monaco together with tebaldi were the ideal trio in earlier times. Vickers was a great Othello too.
Krawi6 3 years ago
I agree with you, I saw McNeil in 1973 and he was pretty boring as Jago.
juanmlleras 3 years ago
l'interpretazione di caruso-ruffo è certo migliore di questa, ma a prescindere da ciò non ci sono parole: DUE GRANDI!!!
figaro92 4 years ago
Let's not get carried away here. Del Monaco and Gobbi were two of the greatest, no question about that.
But this particular clip has all the flaws of a live performance and then some. Gobbi is a semitone sharp for the first couple of bars. Del Monaco seems short-breathed during the taxing climaxes of the duet. And so on.
It would no doubt have been fantastic to see this performance live, but as a recording it is no more than average.
KnutUrban 4 years ago
Yes, Gobbi is sharp at the beginning, which made me think the entire track was off, but they get back in line within a few bars.
Also, I'm rather surprised Del Monaco never broke an ankle falling off those platform shoes during his career (or did it happen and the blame laid elsewhere?).
Shipskeel 3 years ago 3
Could somene please explain to me? Del Monaco seemed to use a "sprechstimme" often in his portrayal of Otello. From where does this come. Is this traditional or generous use of "artistic liberty". He uses it also in Otello's aria. It just seems stanges, but perhaps there is a reasoning behind it of which I have no knowledge
2ManyHighCs 4 years ago
Impresionante, la misma sonoridad (proyeccion en potencia) tanto Del Mónaco como Gobbi, difícilmente un cantante podría ponerse a la altura del grandísimo Mario del Mónaco, y Tito Gobbi hizo una interpretación sencillamente espectacular.
Saludos.
Gerardeus 4 years ago
Gobbi - the greatest - absolutely the greatest singing actor ever.
ScoDeu 4 years ago
Una chicca questo video! FANTASTICI ED IMMORTALI Del Monaco e Gobbi nei loro ruoli di riferimento. Tutti gli altri cantanti (anche quelli citati qui sotto) dovrebbero solo INCHINARSI di fronte a cotanta grandezza.
morgongiori 4 years ago
W l'Italia!!!!!!!
lillipedia 4 years ago 2
for all you guys are saying, the best i've seen of this scene is vickers and macneil. way better baritone singer way better tenor actor and just plain more appropriate guys for the roles.
raythetse 4 years ago
Can't disagre with you more. When we performed Otello a few years ago, whenever older choristers recalled past great Otello performances, they always mentioned MDM and Gobbi. Vickers got mentioned in passing as an afterthought and MacNeil never came up. I do think that MacNeil had far away the more beautiful baritone voice by light years, but he was not a better Iago.
kmillard 4 years ago
to be honest I think i jumped the gun on saying macneil was better than gobi, but Vickers still IMO was a way better othello, even though he wasn't nearly the singer. His performances were just so intense it was amazing.
raythetse 3 years ago
Gobbi is such a tremendous interpreter that any technical flaws he may have are totally irrelevant. For Otello, though, I'm always torn...Vickers' top is not very good, but he IS really intense and convincing. Monaco's entire voice is amazing but he alway seems bug eyed and just loony; for me there's little to make him a compelling protagonist. Domingo, is perhaps the middle-of-the-road solution...
Chiliarches 3 years ago 2
No one could top Gobbi in this role, as for Del Monaco he may over act but god that voice was magnificent. What I wouldnt give to hear sound a Tenor like his today.
mrrk 4 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Domingo is far better Otello as Del Monaco. He overacts and his voice... hm... :(
canafinwe 4 years ago
There are no better Otellos than MDM. Domingo is also great, but I wouldn't say, he's better. Here Monaco a bit spares with his voice. One year erlier in the MET he gave more. But the energy he relays is fantastic. I love his agonic pianos, while Jago spaeks about il fazzoletto. Gobbi's voice is full of irony, colours, brutality, mortal game.
marokt 4 years ago 3
don't joke please........... Domingo as Otello is jast MDM's shade.
gaemp 4 years ago
Surprisingly bad singing from both. Del Monaco sounds like he blew out his voice and Gobbi is barking all over the place.
snooppuggypug 4 years ago
genial tanto mario como gobbi
Adt20 4 years ago 2
Pequeña muestra de una gran versión se adi-
vina,pero a Tito Gobbi lo escuché fantástico.
olgamarga 4 years ago