The UAF are civil who speak for the majority thats why we don't have a facist government. Where as the EDL are young uneducated yobs with nothing better to do.
@boredguk I nearly suffered a hernia through laughter when you referred to the UAF as civil. They make football hooligans look sophisticated. The fact is that the UAF hide behind ''anti-fascism'' in order to thuggishly suppress views that it would rather not enter the national discourse. This is the same as the practice in socialist countries as using a ''anti-fascism'' in order to suppress dissent. The UAF are aware that their crank Marxist views would not be accepted by the public.
@wodenswisdom And the EDL's views would be accepted by the public? A small fringe group of uneducated thugs that society wishes didn't exist, this is how the EDL will remain.
@boredguk I am not a member of the EDL, I am a part of the BNP. The public accept the EDL's (and the BNP's) opposition to Islamic fundamentalists and their opposition to the Islamification of Britain. You believe that acceptance of the imperialistic tendencies of Islam is related to education? No, it just relates to political awareness, the undemocratic nature of Islam and the belief that indigenous populations (including Europeans) have a right to preserve their culture and national identities.
@afcbrule Islam is an imperialistic ideology. Muslims will always seek to spread their ideology since it is considered their duty. Muslims see their religion as the truth, the literal word of God and that this, in effect, gives them a licence, or even a duty, to Islamicise those who have not seen the 'truth'. Any rejection is seen as an attack. This seige mentality comes from ''the prophet'' Mohammed himself when he was in Medina (apparently). The religious mind is generally immune from reason.
if no police was there i bet the uaf would not bother to show up as they know they would get smashed to fuck.bunch of junkies and hippy wasters.horrible lot utter scum
Yes, yes they do you are completely right. BUT they don't in this country and never will do. (please don't call me a thick cunt, i was trying to have a discussion.
@69trinovante er we're not in a majority Islamic state and never will be so whats your point and 'cabbage brain' really ? This really is very amusing.
@69trinovante A you retarded ! What I'm saying is that yes they can convict a non muslim of murder if they really wanted, but if a non muslim told them to fuck off theres nothing they could do about it because it has no official legal power, what dont you understand about that, its like me telling you to go fuck your mum, i can tell you to do it but if you told me to fuck off theres nothing i could about it !
@69trinovante No it dosnt deal with non Muslims, it has no legal authority but muslims just accept it when they are convicted by it because they thinks its holy. If i got tried and convicted by sharia law i could just tell them to fuck off and theres nothing they could do about it, so therefore its completely irrelevant so check your facts before you come on here and call me a disgusting little man you uneducated little dick, i wasn't trying to offend anyone i was just stating a fact.
Please remember the Special send some soap to the UAF day on the 29th February. You can see more details on UKGSTV Channel. Do a youtube search for National Send A Soap To The UAF Day, please let your friends know!
Hypocrisy at it's finest, how do you sleep at night with such a biased view of the world? Are you united against fascism? If so, you stared into the abyss too long and became that which you originaly opposed.The definition of irony...
@youngfeniansofeire no fuck you fenian bastard,uaf uda chelsea loyalists chelsea rangers britains best unionism protestants fuck ireland and the thick paddies.kiss the uion jack.
@TheMastercheif2553 so why look at the edl i was on the march in leicester just ordinary people why you have to so insulting?what has it got to do with you what they look like?at least they have got racist attacks on whites in the open now,there not one arrest in leicester good guys they were so why not try to be nice to people instead of insulting people on a laptop like a coward.
Both the UAF and the EDL are knuckle dragging, intolerant, fascist boneheads. Could we just put them all on an island and let them beat each other to death.
the islamism of europe is actually a fairly serious issue. you only need to read the quran to realise that islam is about world domination and the eradication of infidels. the edl though are just a bunch of fucking idiot racist chavs. it's a shame
@sfurner Yes, the worrying spread of Islam is an important issue. You are right about the imperialistic and intolerant nature of Islam, but there is another issue - the preservation of indigenous European identity(s). This issue is usually left out of the discussion.
While as a BNP member I cannot, and do not, recommend involvement with the EDL, it does not seem to be racist. It was started in response to Islam, is a very loose 'organisation' (the root of their problem) and contains minorities.
HAHAHA English scum! Get the fuck out of my country then before you start telling other fellow English people to get out of yours you pack of smelly inbred colonial bastards!
Why did Dr Raabe get the sack for quoting statistics that : there is a 'disproportunate greater number of peadophiles amoungst homosexuals? and I'll answer that too because our governing elite are determined to show the homosexuals only in a good light regardless of whether it is a load of lying crap or not.
@hockeystick90 terrorism: The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. I.E the EDL. im UAF. because i believe in peace. youre EDL, because you believe in hate. what you fail to realise is theres more of us than there is of you. so if you want to keep battling it out on the streets there are hard people in the UAF aswell.
@EDLdarro didnt you read the definition of terrorism? islamic extremists use bombs. you use intimidation and hate to create fear among lots of good people. and then you beat the shit out of them. UAF are different from EDL because you attack innocent people, we dont.
@rustykeys178 Whats ethnicity got to do with it you twat? Wanting to beat people up and silence them, cause you don't agree with their views, is facism!
@BENJIMANBREEG33 If the EDL had promoted their views in a peaceful and non-offensive manner, they would not feel this way. They do not want to beat them up because they disagree with their views, I imagine many of these people want to beat up the EDL because they have incited racial hatred and used offensive and racial slurs in their matches like 'who the fuck is Allah' and 'Muhammad is a pedo'. Thats not fascism, thats wanting to beat up some ignorant racist wankers. Understand that 'twat' ?
@rustykeys178 Haha, don't talk tripe. The UAF is full of little middle class kids, who have no life experience. You saw the type at Dale Farm, urinating over the police and throwing rocks at them. Muslims are not a race!!!!!!! If you read the Quran, you might think Muhammad is a paedo. There's video's on youtube of Muslims, saying that girls are ready for sex at like 9. And they live in this country. So if someone wanted to beat up Diane Abbot, founder of the UAF, what would that be?
@BENJIMANBREEG33 'Talk tripe' really ? These people don't look like 'little middle class kids', the EDL is just little uneducated kids who would listen to anyone so long as they can go on riots to complain about 'pakis'. I have read lots of passages from the Quran actually because I do my research before coming and youtube and thinking I know what I'm talking. And yes big suprise a book that was written thousands of years ago looks outdated, there are things in the bible which now look barbaric
@rustykeys178 To add to that I'm Christian but there are extremist Christian groups which incite things that are just as bad, yes there are many muslim etremists who act in a savage ways but there are extremists from all religions who do similar things and a small branch of muslim extremists does not represent Islam on the whole, and they are no worse than many other groups in society, this is just ignorant people needing something to blame their problems on and let their anger out.
@rustykeys178 A lot of them are middle class kids, or middle class kids that have grown up! Or racist non-whites, like Diane Abbot. Yes, a lot of the people that latch onto the EDL are pub louts and football hooligans, its embarrassing. They should be told to educate themselves. The people who run it though aren't as bad as that, and want to distance themselves from the BNP, they are against Muslim extremists wanting our culture changed, to suit them.
@rustykeys178 But religion is about faith. What, you think if there was a God, he'd come down now and say, "yeah, I know times have changed, so forget all the old stuff".? If extremist Muslims come here, and still promote that kind of hatred, when they've been lucky enough to get in, why the hell shouldn't they be deported? Actually, a large percentage of Muslims agreed that the Danish cartoonist should've been punished. Some wanting him to be decapitated, quite a few in this country.
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Yea of course he would thats the point of God mate hes all Merciful, Allah is just the arabic word for God Islam, Christianity and Judaism all believe in the same monotheistic God, they are just different translations of him. And even if its a large percentage of muslims its still the minority and i'm not Dianne Abbot's biggest fan but labelling her a racist because of one stupid comment on twitter is a bit strong.
@rustykeys178 And the final point just proves the ignorance, yes they may want to change our culture but it will never happen we will never live in an fully Islam influenced society simply because they are the minority and always will be and this country does not care about religion in any form anymore, half the country are atheists and this proves that there is really no point in the EDL existing, Sharia law for example will never have any sustained influence its just used between muslims.
@rustykeys178 There are already Sharia Law courts here aren't there? I know lots of mosques have been built, and are being built. You're right about this country and religion, but they have a lot more time for Jews and Muslims, than for Christians. Nothing's said if someone mocks Christianity. Whats wrong with immigrants having to adapt to our culture, rather than the other way round?
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Yes but thats my point, the Sharia law courts have no legal power and they never will do, if I got tried by a Sharia law court it would mean absolutely nothing, I would be under no legal obligation to do what they say, they are only there so that Muslims can settle personal disputes amongst themselves, the reason for Mosques being built is because whatever you say about Muslims they are very devout and almost all of them go and worship so they need somwhere to pray
@rustykeys178 My point is, while I agree with you that it should be the immigrants who have to adapt to our culture to an extent, if the EDL really cared about this and about 'freedom' they would target other ethnic groups like as you say Jews, strict Christians who believe in abortion even in the case of rape or forbid homosexuality. But they don't they just use these stupid invalid arguments such as the Sharia law courts to allow them to justify going on marches and incite racial hatred.
@rustykeys178 So whats the point of even having the Sharia courts, all those costs just so Muslims can settle personal disputes isn't good enough, and Muslims that want Sharia Law courts in this country should be deported. Muslims can also pray in their own homes. Our country has its Christain roots, so I doubt they'd protest against that. Jews have a lot of power in the media, so nothing negative is ever said about them. Pub louts wouldn't see this. Its religious hatred, not all racial.
@BENJIMANBREEG33 All those costs ??? Sharia law courts are funded privately not by the government so shouldn't the Muslims be allowed to do what they want with their own money seeing as the Sharia law courts are for their own benefit and have no power over anyone else as we previously discussed. All the stuff about Jews is irrelevant, coming back to main point there is simply no need or point in the EDL existing.
@rustykeys178 Funded privately? I wonder where they get their money from. But anyway, I just don't agree with the courts being there. It doesn't feel like part of British culture. Thats why I say, they should adapt to ours. I think the EDL supporters should actually work out what they're doing. Its not just courts, its Mosques and treading on eggshells. The goverment aren't doing sod all, so that why extremist groups exist.
@rustykeys178 No, because its not down to us humans to make up rules, thats the point of God! He's the only one that can judge us. I know, everyone believes in one God. Surely you'd not agree with a minority that are anti-freedom of speech and expression? One stupid comment? A white person would be labelled a racist and sacked on the spot. And its not her first time, she's made other racist comments in the past, but gets away with it cause she's black.
Real EDL members would not hurl abuse at black people. If someone did that then actually are racist. The message the EDL are trying to portray is in no way racist.
NB: Look at the muslims turn up with their flags. When are stupid white UAF dhimmi's going to realise that all muslims are muslim first and then whatever they claim to be second.
UAF are complete idiots. Next they will be sucking muslim cock just to help them complete their RACIST jihad.
why is it that the edl members show their faces,yet the uaf hide theirs? are they ashamed of what they stand for? and before you blame me of being racist,bnp,edl or some such thing,I am not! I work for a living,love my family and my country, pay my taxes and still I am down trodden and would be blamed for something I am not.
Fuck all you exstreamist cunts BNP, EDL Taliban your all the same all racist scum, it dont matter what colour you are! try searching 'English Frank' he speaks the truth in his words, (Btw he aint a racist lol).
@JazzarBizzle2006 Yeah i know that man, im all for UAF :D its just these nazi boys need to get with the times! we fought against fascism in WW2 probably some of them EDL boys grandads, its all this out dated skinhead wastemen thinking the UK is all about fucking tea and crumpets, for example some cut must have been in his late 40's come upto us and goes to my mate from nepal go back to Korea i was like wtf anyway we gave him grief and he walked away calling us traitors lol.
@DJamesxWG You silly little ignorant cunt. We also fought for freedom of speech, if you know what that means. It doesn't mean you can say what you like, as long as it doesn't offend selected groups of people. Course there a lot of idiots in the EDL and such. But jesus, if the UAF were in charge, they'd have people silenced for sure. That is fascism!! What are you, some little middle class kid living off mummy and daddy, who's working towards an "education"?
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Haha! im not saying i want UAF in power i just like their ideas, im about labour over anything, ive been on protests i was protesting against student financial cuts and guess what, old mr fucking EDL turns up in his harington and starts shouting racist abuse at black police an insights violence into the crowd. i grew up in south london my mum worked 3 jobs at times so dont give it i havent got time for you Wastemen, and yeah im going to Uni next year to study Architecture Cunt!
@DJamesxWG Like their ideas? Baha, what fascists against fascism! Maybe you'll grow out of it. Something needed to be done about every person in this country wanting to go to uni. If they just want to go and study something so they can have a piss up, then they should pay for it themselves. I hope your drawing art is better than your musical art. You'll find that those racist people who think they stand for the EDL, actually don't. EDL are against fanatic muslims, a religion, not race.
@BENJIMANBREEG33 The EDL would be a more credible group if a significant amount of their membership didn't comprise of former football hooligans and wannabes who have watched too many films such as Green Street or Football Factory which are economically and politically illiterate to say the least.
The BNP actually does have some credibility, but the EDL.. is an embarrassment to the right. Suck it up.
@Riotette I agree mate. And i've been saying exactly that. I met one of their organisers, and he was a nice guy, but some of the others were yeah, football hooligans. The UAF are just facists against facism. Pathetic hypocrites. The BNP would have more credibility if Nick Griffin wasn't in charge.
The main body of the EDL were at the castle 200 yards away, penned in by police away from the public, while the commies were allowed to march around the Market Square with their red flags all day. End days.
England really need to stop all immigration from non western countries. This is just going to get worse. I just dont see the benifit of mass immigration it is ruining England. English people will be the minority if it keeps going the way it is. The PC politicians are not listening to the people, thats why the EDL are growing.
Where was all you uaf guys when parts of London was being smashed up,the next day edl was in my area and they chased looters out of our area then half hour later police came. So thank you to the edl for saving the shops in our community have the uaf done anything like that?
@8496ricko The UAF were most likely amongst the rioters. The Socialist Workers Party were certainly trying their best to increase tensions and invoke a revolution. They put up posters saying 'Riot to Revolution'. Other leftists were busy making political capital out of it in order to push socialist policies.
@wodenswisdom Now what's a good little BNPer like yourself doing on an EDL video. I thought your party wanted nothing to do with them?
Let's face it, we both know it's only a matter of time before the BNP seek to use the riots as political capital. Your party has got previous for trying to start riots and destruction or trying to capitalize on it.
@SuperMoominpapa A ''good little BNPer '' like myself is looking for UAF supporters. It is the fact that this is an anti-UAF video rather than an EDL one. The EDL is proscribed in the BNP. A member commenting on a video with the EDL in it does not equate to a merger.
There is no evidence that the BNP has ever tried to start riots and you certainly cannot blame this riot on the BNP! Riots as political capital? Like the left has been doing? The SWP even tried to incite a revolution.
@wodenswisdom Starter for ten, who said this .......
".......My aim was political. It was to cause a racial war in this country. There'd be a backlash from the ethnic minorities, then all the white people will go out and vote BNP......"
@SuperMoominpapa Who do you think said it? You do realise that I would not take your word for anything since I know what the BNP are about and it is not about race war. I have not heard this quote if it exists and it would not change the fact the BNP represent the love and defence of our country and way of life against those leftists and those immigrant groups (I am aware that it is not all of them) who hate this country and its heritage. Go on then, who (apparently) said it and when?
Okay, it was from the Police interviews with David Copeland, after he planted bombs that killed three people and injured 139. You know him, he was in the BNP. Not much 'love' there.
Not much 'love' from the twelve times convicted prominent BNPer Tony Lecomber. How many petrol bombs and hand grenades, did the 5-O find at his house?
Not much 'love' in the conversation that he had with Joe Owens, the BNP Liverpool organiser.
@SuperMoominpapa Your argument is absurd. Copeland and Lecomber were absolutely in no way typical of BNP members. It is grossly unfair and ignorant to portray them as such. Would you portray bin Laden as representative of all Muslims?
The fact is that Copeland and Lecomber had the same misunderstanding as you. They found that the party were nothing like them so they disconnected themselves from the party. Your 'argument' is just a smear stemming from desperation.
@wodenswisdom Like it or not Copeland and Lecomber were members of the BNP. It makes you wonder what kind of message the BNP sends out, that makes people like them gravitate towards the party. Lecomber's misunderstandings aren't really the issue here, rather, how could someone like him rise so high up in the BNP's hierarchy.
"...bin Laden isn't representative of all Muslims..."
Yes that's right, the fact that you said that on an EDL video - priceless!
@SuperMoominpapa People like them do not consider involvement with the BNP because of any message that the BNP sends out, but the false image of the party created by a media smear campaign. These individuals did not last long. Your comment is therefore a desperate attempt to smear the party. If Lecomber did ''rise high in the BNP's hierarchy'' then that implies that he did not tell the balanced members of the party what he was up to. If he did he would have been thrown out of the party...
@wodenswisdom Or another way to look at it is, the BNP were quite happy to keep Lecomber, with all his numerous convictions, because they valued his organisational skills.
They keep him after his conviction in '82, keep him after his conviction in '85, keep him after his conviction in '86, keep him after his conviction in '91.
And it was only due to the press attention about his attempt to recruit Owen in order to assassinate politicians and members of the establishment, that they let him go.
@SuperMoominpapa You are like a dog with a bone aren't you? Let it go. You claim that Lecomber's convictions were in the 1980s (the BNP did not trust the convictions. Lack of trust in authority). We are in 2011! Clearly you feel you need to find justification for your simple-minded adherence to the anti-BNP cause. Have anything against the modern party? Anti-BNPers seem to be stuck in the 1980s. I suppose you believe that the modern Conservatives represent Enoch Powells 'Rivers of Blood' speech.
@wodenswisdom I don't CLAIM anything about Lecomber's convictions, they're a matter of public record.
And I couldn't give a FUCK, how the BNP view them.
Don't even dare try to paint him as some sort of 'prisoner of conscience'. Any shred of respect, that I have for left you as a human being will vanish, if you push that line any further.
You tell me it's 2011, then refer to a speech made in '68 - Really?
Of course, Heath booted Powell out of the Cabinet after that speech.
@SuperMoominpapa When did I try and portray Lecomber as a ''prisoner of conscience''?
I do not see why I bother trying to use examples to illustrate the flaws in your logic when you clearly miss the point. You are less intelligent than I thought (and I did not exactly have you down as a genius). The intricacies of the Powell case were not the point. This construction of the argument was. To use an (isolated)outdated example to represent the contempary party is flawed. That was the point.
@wodenswisdom "..the BNP did not trust the convictions. Lack of trust in authority.."
Even with my limited intelligence, I can see that there's only one way to construe that statement. Care to retract it?
My flawed logic aside, I was perfectly able to understand your argument and my reply remains the same - when someone says or does something that brings their party into disrepute, then action must be taken.
It seems that the BNP have still to learn that lesson.
@SuperMoominpapa The BNP do not wholly trust the authorities in this country. Why would I retract that and why would you want me to? How do you ''construe that statement''?
Whe someone brings the party into disrepute BNP do take action. You saying that because Lecomber was not instantly kicked out nearly 30 years that no-one has been kicked out? Griffin kicked Tyndall out of the party and he founded it! There are rules that members have to abide by or they get disciplined.
@SuperMoominpapa The comment ''...the BNP do not wholly trust the authorities in this country...'' is a general position that means that the authorities are composed of those hostile to the BNP and therefore there would be political ulterior motives in their treatment of the BNP. It would be naive to see the authorities as politically neutral. It may disappoint you but this does not necessarily say anything about Lecombers (now irrelevent) case. Keep on digging but you won't find anything.
@wodenswisdom Lecomber is RELEVANT, because that's who we're talking about, dummy!
First, you said he wasn't representative of the BNP.
Then, you said he "disconnected himself from the party"(?)
Then, you said people like him didn't last long in the party (Lecomber was an inaugural member of the BNP and remained a member until his removal in 2006.)
I know, let's not get bogged down arguing semantics. The really important thing is that, first, you said that he left the BNP, then that the BNP know nothing about his activities, then that the BNP didn't trust the convictions.
That's the lie!
Failure to come clean about the attitude, membership and activities of the party that someone belongs to.
Yes. He was forced to resign. He was forced out once the party found out what he was up to.
Only an extremist would fail to come clean about attitude, membership and activities of a party? Would this apply to a Lab., Con. or LD member? How do you know that I know all the insides? I was not a member then, but I know that the party was not in on Lecomber's activities. I have found no evidence of wrongdoing by the party. Are you going to finally drop it?
@wodenswisdom "..He was forced out once the party found out what he was up to..."
What, so just after the 'Owens plot' then? That means they were perfectly happy with the assault and explosives convictions. You could of saved yourself a lot of time and effort, had you just said that It was all before your time, but no, you had to spend weeks flipping and flopping between "he disconnected himself" - "the party didn't know" - "the party don't trust the legal system" .......
@SuperMoominpapa It was before my time, but I have done research on this and what I have found is not consistent with your interpretation. Why are you insistent that I ignore what I have found in order to accept yours?
@SuperMoominpapa ...The EDL do not work on the premise that every Muslim is a terrorist (even though that does not mean that most Muslims don't support their aims). They, and nationalist parties, work on the premise that Britain is undergoing creeping Islamification, and in order for our indigenous north European identity to be preserved, this process has to halted (EDL with more direct tactics and the BNP through the democratic process)...
Oh come on, you're giving them far more credit for their intelligence, than they actually display.
The EDL, what's that?
They're just a 'flash-mob' for fuckwits and football hooligans.
You've just got to look at their embarrassing stance over halal KFC or their complete failure to understand sharia 'courts', to realise their inability to even comprehend the nature of any supposed Islamification.
@SuperMoominpapa Do you understand Sharia courts? I suppose that you believe that anyone who does not unquestionly accept them because they are islamic fails ''to understand'' them. There are 85...so far. Do you know how they treat women? That Sharia is based on direct interpretations from the koran so therefore based on arbitrary judgements and punishments? That it is an alien system that is poised to be a rival to our legal system? I suppose you cannot see with your head in the sand.
@wodenswisdom No, I think that a lot of people who oppose Sharia, do so out of ignorance or by willfully misrepresenting it. We're not talking about legal pluralism, but about arbitration, mediation and guidance.
It always bothers me, when we talk about women's legal rights, in a country with an appallingly low rape conviction, where 1 in 4 women will experience domestic violence and are still not paid the same or treated the same as their male counterparts.
@SuperMoominpapa You are clearly one of al-Qaeda's useful idiots. I suppose you are mindlessly defending sharia because you believe it is 'racist' to criticise it? There is much in this barbaric legal system for an enlightened person to find abhorrent. 'Misrepresenting' it? I suppose you mean not presenting its less barbaric aspects and backward aspects? It comes as a package.
''Legal pluralism''? We are talking about a plurality in ''arbitration, mediation and guidance''. Slippery slope...
@wodenswisdom First I was a stooge for UAF, then I was unwitting agent of the international Communist conspiracy, now it seems I'm a sock puppet for a global terrorist network. I must admit, I do take some sort of perverse pleasure in charting my rise up through the upper echelons of world politics.
@SuperMoominpapa ''...i was unwitting agent of the international Communist conspiracy..''
I did not suggest you were but if you admit it! It would explain a few things... Seriously you are useful to Islamist organisations since you try to discredit those people and organisations who are standing in the way of these people and their aims. You may think you are doing good in the world but you need to consider who takes advantage of your naivety.
@wodenswisdom Having the kind of personality that makes me suffer fools like you, I also have a total recall of all the pish that they utter. You once said that I must have been subconsciously influenced by Marxist ideology.
Combine that with your oft-claimed suggestions about my links to UAF and the new revelations that I'm a fall guy for al-Qaeda.
Get it now?
I know that whatever I say goes in one ear and out the other, but I'd thought you'd have some sort of memory of your own ramblings.
@SuperMoominpapa The main marxist idea that is permeating Britain today is the argument that minority necessarily equals victim, Muslims (or any minority) are a minority so therefore they are a victim. Your thinking seems to be along these lines. Marxist ideas are poisoning this country to a greater extent than many people realise. You do not need to remind of what I have said in previous posts. I remember.
A poignant argument is a rambling to those who do not understand it.
@wodenswisdom Hands up, you got me there. I do believe Muslims are victims,
They're victims of profiling and harassment when flying out of Glasgow airport. They're victims in Birmingham, when the Police place hidden spy cameras in their communities. They're victims in Tower Hamlets over the weekend, when they can't go about their business, due to the actions of the EDL. And they're victims when a MP is allowed to go unchallenged, when she claims that children are being used as suicide bombers.
@SuperMoominpapa You are wrong Muslims are not victims. When the majority of terrorists are muslim then why would old white ladies, for example, be profiled? When muslim communities fail to hand over terrorists from their communities then why shouldn't the native population look for them in order to defend ourselves? The EDL was set up in response to the actions of Islamic fundamentalists whom muslims do nothing about. Muslims should look at their own actions. Stop making excuses on their behalf
@wodenswisdom Let's stigmatise all Muslims. Perhaps we could bring back internment. That worked well against the Irish, didn't it?
By creating a generation of people with a hatred of British establishment is as good a self-fulfilling prophecy as any.
You spend so much time defending THE CONVICTED TERRORIST TONY LECOMBER, and then chastise others for apparently not doing enough to highlight the extremists in their communities - hypocrite much?
@SuperMoominpapa You are saying that it is a straight choice of either seeing Muslims as victims or stigmatising them? What I am saying is is that Muslims should be held to account for their actions as much as the rest of us.
I have not once defended Lecomber and if any extremists are found in the BNP then they should be expelled (and are). Do you have a poor memory or are trying to cynically portray me as an apologist for extremism?
@wodenswisdom "..Muslims should be held account for their actions..."
Yes, I quite agree. Being held to account for the actions of others, like those claiming to act the name of their religion or perverting the message of the faith, well that's something very different, isn't it?
@SuperMoominpapa ''Being held to account for the actions of others...''
When I mention '''actions'' I do not just mean terrorism. Other actions can include failure to combat fundamentalism within their communities, lack of respect for our heritage and culture, the extent to which increasing areas of our country is being Islamicised. I judge individuals on their actions and all Muslims I have encountered so far fail on these. I am open to individuals who do not fail on these counts.
@wodenswisdom I doubt very much that you've actually met many Muslims, but instead just watch countless YouTube videos of fuck-wits like Anjem Choudary or Omar Bakri Muhammad.
Maybe you need to get out more?
I've known and worked with a number of Muslims and they've all been cool. None of them ever came up to my face, screaming- "Death to the west!" or "Die infidel!" (maybe they do it behind my back, eh?).
In fact, I never knew one guy was a Muslim, until he started fasting at Ramadan.
@SuperMoominpapa No, I have actually met muslims. Are claiming that anyone who meets muslims would therefore be open to the increasing influence of Islam? How?
You cannot support the Islamification of Britain because a few muslims who you have worked with have ''all been cool''. You have clearly let the fact that these individuals have not threatened to kill you to blind you to the wider cultural issue and the threat of Islamic cultural influence.
@wodenswisdom " I do apologise. That's right, you never defended Lecomber, just the party that stuck with him for some 20 odd years. During which time, he was convicted on numerous terrorist and violent offences.
@wodenswisdom By stating that most of those who oppose the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, do so out of ignorance or because it fits in with their anti-Islamic agenda, doesn't make me a stooge to anyone.
It's just my opinion.
You've got to question the motivation behind someone reading the above statement and then labeling the commentator as a shill.
What's the stimulus behind it?
You've spent years trying to DISCREDIT the BNP's opponents, whilst NAIVELY following them without question.
@SuperMoominpapa ''...stating that most of those who oppose the MAT,do so out of ignorance... doesn't make me a stooge...''
If not being a ''stooge'' then it must be naivety and/or being misinformed. Allowing Muslim's to practice their legal traditions in our country will not necessarily lead to Muslims respecting British legal traditions. Give people in inch and they will take a mile.
@SuperMoominpapa ''Sounds...like''...In this country in 15 or 20 years time the MUSLIM will have the hand over the white man''
So you have managed to get a completely different sentence from the one I provided and bring in Enoch. Who mentioned ''15'' or ''20''? It would take longer than that even with current immigration levels and birthrates. Certainly before the end of the century at this rate. It would not just be the ''white man'' who muslims would ''have the whip over''.
@wodenswisdom "...It would not just be the ''white man'' who muslims would ''have the whip over...''
Ha Ha Ha, the BNP Viking warrior wrestler is getting pounded into the canvas, so he desperately reaches out a feeble hand, trying to tag the Big Black Buck standing on the other side of the ropes. Tears streaming down his face, he meekly pleads - "help me brother, we're all in this together".
@wodenswisdom "..There is much in this barbaric legal system for an enlightened person to find abhorrent.."
Care to tell us exactly what you find abhorrent in a British sharia system?
Although, I don't know why I bother, I'm still waiting on the solid evidence on British Muslims hatred of this country, that I asked you for some time ago.
@SuperMoominpapa The fact that Sharia derives from the Koran is itself abhorrent. Execution for adultery, apostasy and criticising Islam. It demands deference to the authoritarian laws of Islam so therefore clamps down on individual liberty and freedom of thought and expression. I suppose you support this since you are clearly deferential to Islam anyway.
The Islamification of this country and the blatant disregard for our heritage is not evidence for you of Islamic contempt of Britain?
@wodenswisdom This country doesn't have the death penalty, so mentioning executions is a bit nonsensical, isn't it?
Why'd you do that?
See what I mean about ignorance or willful misrepresentation.
Name me any community, society, state or country on the face of this planet, that DOESN'T require deference to authoritarian laws (written or unwritten) ?
I would of course mention that nowhere in the Qur'an does it demand the killing of apostates.
@wodenswisdom If you're talking about countries with an Islamic majority, how would you explain a country like Indonesia, a country with the highest Muslim population in the world.
It doesn't have Sharia Law and the majority of the 80% Muslim population in a land containing 237 million people don't support its introduction.
@SuperMoominpapa Muslims in Indonesia are considered to be under Islamic law. It is considered illegal for a muslim to drink alcohol for example. Alcohol is only found in certain areas mostly for the benefit of western tourists.
An Islamic majority in itself would be bad enough in Europe and, even if it was the case that not every Islamic majority pursued sharia in a zealous manner, you do not know that it would not happen here. You are a starnge little atheist if you defend Islam.
Either it's illegal or not. Or do you mean it's sale is licensed, there are restrictions on who can buy it, where and when it can be bought and where it can be consumed.
I hope the Muslims don't bring those kind of laws into this country.
I see you are desperately trying to stray from the main point. Many regions in Indonesia have banned alcohol and this tends to be enforced by groups of vigilantes despite it apparently being a secular state . Yes, I hope ''Muslims don't bring this kind of laws into this country''.
Alchohol laws are not the main point, keeping Britain British for future generations is.
@wodenswisdom No, I'm desperately trying to nail the ambiguity of you saying "considered illegal".
Indonesia is a country made up of some thirteen and a half thousand islands and thirty odd provinces, some of which are seeking separation or autonomy. Saying "considered illegal" is pretty vague.
@SuperMoominpapa Indonesia does not have a national law on alcohol consumption. It has been banned on a region by region basis and the outlawing of consumption seems to be majority view. It does not mean drinkers in other regions are completely unmolested either. Does that make it clear?
@wodenswisdom Hey dummy! We already have those kind of laws in this country. The shop near me, requires that you be at least 25 yrs old not 18 to buy alcohol. It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't buy alcohol in a supermarket on the sabbath. And different councils have different licensing rules.
Don't bring up Alchohol laws, if you don't fully understand them.
@SuperMoominpapa What? I said that in Indonesia many regions have banned alcohol and these laws tend to be enforced by vigilantes. Did you actually read the last post on this subject. You claim that ''we already have those kind of laws in this country''. Name a region in Britain where alcohol has been banned.
@wodenswisdom The "..kind of laws.." that I mentioned already exist or have existed in this country. That's why I mentioned voluntary age-restricted sales, licensing and retail laws, local by-laws, minimum price legislation and 'dry towns'. This is why saying something is 'considered' illegal is pretty shaky.
Vigilantes eh? So that's where the EDL got the idea from.
@SuperMoominpapa You seem to be confused. You claimed that the alcohol laws in the Islamic country of Indonesia are equivalent to those in this country. As I said, and you did not seem to notice, many regions of Indonesia banned alcohol. You have not explained how the regional banning of alcohol is equivalent to our age restriction laws.
@SuperMoominpapa Muslims in Indonesia are considered to be under Islamic law. It is considered illegal for a muslim to drink alcohol for example. Alcohol is only found in certain areas mostly for the benefit of western tourists.
An Islamic majority in itself would be bad enough in Europe and, even if it was the case that not every Islamic majority pursued sharia in a zealous manner, you do not know that it would not happen here. You are a starnge little atheist if you defend Islam.
@wodenswisdom I'll admit I had to dig out my dictionary, to look up the word "deferential", and I was right, it did mean ~ showing or expressing polite respect or courtesy. You made it sound like an insult.
@wodenswisdom I don't know how "deferential" I am. Every weekend I consume practically my own considerable body weight in Rioja and chorizo and have been an atheist since I was a child. However I do believe in reciprocity and that there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, so there must be one or two good ones.
I also believe that to generalise is ignorant and that to use that generalistion in support of an argument deserves to be questioned.
@SuperMoominpapa ''...have been an atheist since I was a child. However I do believe in reciprocity...''
It is clear now what lies at the heart of your apologist attitude towards Islam. Naivety. You may believe in reciprocity but it relies on the other side also believing in it otherwise it does not work. You may not see yourself as deferential but someone else may interpret it as such. They would certainly not see the relationship as equal. There needs to be more than ''one or two good ones'
It's not my fault that you have neither the wit nor intellect to understand that.
This might prove problematic as I'm going to be moving at speed and hitting a number of points, so I don't necessarily have the time to stop and guide you, by the hand, through the subtleties of human expression. Or do I have to punctuate every sentence with an helpful emoticon, so that you don't get lost?
Before you start casting doubt on my intellect for being opposed to Islam, think about how it is absurd for someone who claims to be an atheist to defend the most fanatical monotheist religion in the world. In the hierarchy of non-Muslims atheists are only one-up from apostates. If you want to prove the apparent tolerance of islam go to Saudi Arabia and publicly proclaim your rejection of God.
@wodenswisdom No, I'm casting doubt on your intellect full stop. It's the weakest fuckin' argument in the world to say - that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here. Since when did a feudal monarchy like Saudi Arabia become the benchmark for other countries to aspire to?
Doing away with childish comparisons is another thing that us grown-ups do.
@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here.''
That is not my argument. I did not argue that we should stop doing muslims here what we can't do in Saudi Arabia. You say that you cast doubt on my intellect but you cannot even recreate my arguments properly. My argument is that what we cannot do in Muslim countries our descendents will be unable to do here. It is not worth taking the risk even if it is not certain, but it is very likely.
@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here''
It is ironic that you question my intellect when you cannot even recreate my argument. I did not argue that we should ban muslim's from doing what we can't do in Saudi Arabia, I argued that our descendents could be banned from doing what non-muslims are banned from doing in Saudi Arabia if we allow this country to be Islamicised. Why take the risk?
@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here''
It is ironic that you question my intellect when you cannot even recreate my argument. I did not argue that we should ban muslim's from doing what we can't do in Saudi Arabia, I argued that our descendents could be banned from doing what non-muslims are banned from doing in Saudi Arabia if we allow this country to be Islamicised. Why take the risk?
@wodenswisdom Going all the way to Mecca, just to cause offense? No thanks, that would be like going to Pyongyang, to denounce socialism or going to Norwich and rejecting inbreeding. I've never been punched in the face by a hand with six fingers, but it'd bet it probably hurts.
@SuperMoominpapa ''Going all the way just to Mecca, just to cause offence?''
You are saying that Muslims in SA would be offended by expressions of atheism? Under your idea of reciprocity I am sure if you do this nicely enough they will nicely tolerate your atheism. Your sentiments seem to be contradicting your previous ones in which Islam is based on peace and tolerance (not quoting you, this is the impression that you are giving).
@wodenswisdom So the fact that the MAT function under the Arbitration Act (1996) with reference to alternative dispute resolution, that's your solid evidence of the "Islamification" of Britain and their contempt for everything there in. I'm sorry, but you're going to work a bit harder to convince me to pack all my belongings into a Viking longship and set sail north.
@SuperMoominpapa You have your head so far in the sand that I do not see how I am going to convince you about creeping Islamification without personally taking you on a national tour. Would it take the establishment of a UK caliphate to convince you? Do some research (with your eyes open). For a start, in 1960 there were 7 mosques in Britain. Now there are nearly 2000. Go through national and local newspapers, the amount of planning applications for mosques and the sites of these...
@wodenswisdom A national tour...woooo! I bagsy the window seat.
No, seriously, nothing in this world, would induce me to spend days trapped inside a National Express coach with you. Every time we turned a corner, your dumb little Viking helmet poking me on the side of my head, or the worry that you'll knock on my hotel-room door, drunk, at two in the morning, looking for 'company'.
The UAF are civil who speak for the majority thats why we don't have a facist government. Where as the EDL are young uneducated yobs with nothing better to do.
boredguk 6 days ago
@boredguk I nearly suffered a hernia through laughter when you referred to the UAF as civil. They make football hooligans look sophisticated. The fact is that the UAF hide behind ''anti-fascism'' in order to thuggishly suppress views that it would rather not enter the national discourse. This is the same as the practice in socialist countries as using a ''anti-fascism'' in order to suppress dissent. The UAF are aware that their crank Marxist views would not be accepted by the public.
wodenswisdom 3 days ago
@wodenswisdom And the EDL's views would be accepted by the public? A small fringe group of uneducated thugs that society wishes didn't exist, this is how the EDL will remain.
boredguk 3 days ago
@boredguk I am not a member of the EDL, I am a part of the BNP. The public accept the EDL's (and the BNP's) opposition to Islamic fundamentalists and their opposition to the Islamification of Britain. You believe that acceptance of the imperialistic tendencies of Islam is related to education? No, it just relates to political awareness, the undemocratic nature of Islam and the belief that indigenous populations (including Europeans) have a right to preserve their culture and national identities.
wodenswisdom 2 days ago
EDL! muslims come to our country but then slag us off! If you don't like it f**k off back to where you came from!
afcbrule 6 days ago
@afcbrule Islam is an imperialistic ideology. Muslims will always seek to spread their ideology since it is considered their duty. Muslims see their religion as the truth, the literal word of God and that this, in effect, gives them a licence, or even a duty, to Islamicise those who have not seen the 'truth'. Any rejection is seen as an attack. This seige mentality comes from ''the prophet'' Mohammed himself when he was in Medina (apparently). The religious mind is generally immune from reason.
wodenswisdom 3 days ago
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UAF support Islamic paedophilia.
karezza6 1 week ago
if no police was there i bet the uaf would not bother to show up as they know they would get smashed to fuck.bunch of junkies and hippy wasters.horrible lot utter scum
MrINFIDEL1690 1 month ago
Yes, yes they do you are completely right. BUT they don't in this country and never will do. (please don't call me a thick cunt, i was trying to have a discussion.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@69trinovante er we're not in a majority Islamic state and never will be so whats your point and 'cabbage brain' really ? This really is very amusing.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@69trinovante A you retarded ! What I'm saying is that yes they can convict a non muslim of murder if they really wanted, but if a non muslim told them to fuck off theres nothing they could do about it because it has no official legal power, what dont you understand about that, its like me telling you to go fuck your mum, i can tell you to do it but if you told me to fuck off theres nothing i could about it !
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@69trinovante No it dosnt deal with non Muslims, it has no legal authority but muslims just accept it when they are convicted by it because they thinks its holy. If i got tried and convicted by sharia law i could just tell them to fuck off and theres nothing they could do about it, so therefore its completely irrelevant so check your facts before you come on here and call me a disgusting little man you uneducated little dick, i wasn't trying to offend anyone i was just stating a fact.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
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Please remember the Special send some soap to the UAF day on the 29th February. You can see more details on UKGSTV Channel. Do a youtube search for National Send A Soap To The UAF Day, please let your friends know!
HotElectonePlayer 1 month ago
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Hypocrisy at it's finest, how do you sleep at night with such a biased view of the world? Are you united against fascism? If so, you stared into the abyss too long and became that which you originaly opposed.The definition of irony...
AngryBroomHandler 1 month ago
fuck the edl
youngfeniansofeire 1 month ago
@youngfeniansofeire no fuck you fenian bastard,uaf uda chelsea loyalists chelsea rangers britains best unionism protestants fuck ireland and the thick paddies.kiss the uion jack.
september7891 3 weeks ago
@september7891 THATCHES SLOWLY DYING IAN PAISLEY GOT A HEART ATTACK AND RANGERS ARE GOING BUST HAHAHA
youngfeniansofeire 3 weeks ago
UAF UAF UAF IRA IRA IRA INLA INLA PIRA PIRA CIRA
youngfeniansofeire 1 month ago
The EDL looks like a pile of shit
TheMastercheif2553 2 months ago
@TheMastercheif2553 Excellent observational skill their my friend...they are indeed a pile of shit.
Imoteph 2 months ago
@Imoteph lmao
Makashi11 2 months ago
@TheMastercheif2553 so why look at the edl i was on the march in leicester just ordinary people why you have to so insulting?what has it got to do with you what they look like?at least they have got racist attacks on whites in the open now,there not one arrest in leicester good guys they were so why not try to be nice to people instead of insulting people on a laptop like a coward.
september7891 3 weeks ago
Both the UAF and the EDL are knuckle dragging, intolerant, fascist boneheads. Could we just put them all on an island and let them beat each other to death.
mikesheen741 3 months ago
the islamism of europe is actually a fairly serious issue. you only need to read the quran to realise that islam is about world domination and the eradication of infidels. the edl though are just a bunch of fucking idiot racist chavs. it's a shame
sfurner 3 months ago 2
@sfurner Yes, the worrying spread of Islam is an important issue. You are right about the imperialistic and intolerant nature of Islam, but there is another issue - the preservation of indigenous European identity(s). This issue is usually left out of the discussion.
While as a BNP member I cannot, and do not, recommend involvement with the EDL, it does not seem to be racist. It was started in response to Islam, is a very loose 'organisation' (the root of their problem) and contains minorities.
wodenswisdom 2 months ago
in hot days my balls stick to my sweaty legs
zOpTiiCz 3 months ago
HAHAHA English scum! Get the fuck out of my country then before you start telling other fellow English people to get out of yours you pack of smelly inbred colonial bastards!
ConCon75 4 months ago
they're more like UBF (unite behind fascism)
godkingRoss 4 months ago
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Why did Dr Raabe get the sack for quoting statistics that : there is a 'disproportunate greater number of peadophiles amoungst homosexuals? and I'll answer that too because our governing elite are determined to show the homosexuals only in a good light regardless of whether it is a load of lying crap or not.
20Alanpartridge 4 months ago
loads of retarded people shouting at each other, brilliant.
TheNubianTwist 4 months ago
UAF scum Muslims hate you too you thick twats
b0sh30 4 months ago
EDL RULES UAF ARE TERRORISTS
hockeystick90 4 months ago
@hockeystick90 terrorism: The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. I.E the EDL. im UAF. because i believe in peace. youre EDL, because you believe in hate. what you fail to realise is theres more of us than there is of you. so if you want to keep battling it out on the streets there are hard people in the UAF aswell.
PENMAN168 4 months ago
@PENMAN168 so who have we bombed?
EDLdarro 4 months ago
@EDLdarro didnt you read the definition of terrorism? islamic extremists use bombs. you use intimidation and hate to create fear among lots of good people. and then you beat the shit out of them. UAF are different from EDL because you attack innocent people, we dont.
PENMAN168 4 months ago
@PENMAN168 You're the facists against facism. Go and suck Billy Bragg's dick.
BENJIMANBREEG33 2 months ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Er excuse you can't be fascist if your in a multi-ethnic group that does not discriminate against anyone.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 Whats ethnicity got to do with it you twat? Wanting to beat people up and silence them, cause you don't agree with their views, is facism!
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 If the EDL had promoted their views in a peaceful and non-offensive manner, they would not feel this way. They do not want to beat them up because they disagree with their views, I imagine many of these people want to beat up the EDL because they have incited racial hatred and used offensive and racial slurs in their matches like 'who the fuck is Allah' and 'Muhammad is a pedo'. Thats not fascism, thats wanting to beat up some ignorant racist wankers. Understand that 'twat' ?
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 Haha, don't talk tripe. The UAF is full of little middle class kids, who have no life experience. You saw the type at Dale Farm, urinating over the police and throwing rocks at them. Muslims are not a race!!!!!!! If you read the Quran, you might think Muhammad is a paedo. There's video's on youtube of Muslims, saying that girls are ready for sex at like 9. And they live in this country. So if someone wanted to beat up Diane Abbot, founder of the UAF, what would that be?
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 'Talk tripe' really ? These people don't look like 'little middle class kids', the EDL is just little uneducated kids who would listen to anyone so long as they can go on riots to complain about 'pakis'. I have read lots of passages from the Quran actually because I do my research before coming and youtube and thinking I know what I'm talking. And yes big suprise a book that was written thousands of years ago looks outdated, there are things in the bible which now look barbaric
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 To add to that I'm Christian but there are extremist Christian groups which incite things that are just as bad, yes there are many muslim etremists who act in a savage ways but there are extremists from all religions who do similar things and a small branch of muslim extremists does not represent Islam on the whole, and they are no worse than many other groups in society, this is just ignorant people needing something to blame their problems on and let their anger out.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 A lot of them are middle class kids, or middle class kids that have grown up! Or racist non-whites, like Diane Abbot. Yes, a lot of the people that latch onto the EDL are pub louts and football hooligans, its embarrassing. They should be told to educate themselves. The people who run it though aren't as bad as that, and want to distance themselves from the BNP, they are against Muslim extremists wanting our culture changed, to suit them.
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 But religion is about faith. What, you think if there was a God, he'd come down now and say, "yeah, I know times have changed, so forget all the old stuff".? If extremist Muslims come here, and still promote that kind of hatred, when they've been lucky enough to get in, why the hell shouldn't they be deported? Actually, a large percentage of Muslims agreed that the Danish cartoonist should've been punished. Some wanting him to be decapitated, quite a few in this country.
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Yea of course he would thats the point of God mate hes all Merciful, Allah is just the arabic word for God Islam, Christianity and Judaism all believe in the same monotheistic God, they are just different translations of him. And even if its a large percentage of muslims its still the minority and i'm not Dianne Abbot's biggest fan but labelling her a racist because of one stupid comment on twitter is a bit strong.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 And the final point just proves the ignorance, yes they may want to change our culture but it will never happen we will never live in an fully Islam influenced society simply because they are the minority and always will be and this country does not care about religion in any form anymore, half the country are atheists and this proves that there is really no point in the EDL existing, Sharia law for example will never have any sustained influence its just used between muslims.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 There are already Sharia Law courts here aren't there? I know lots of mosques have been built, and are being built. You're right about this country and religion, but they have a lot more time for Jews and Muslims, than for Christians. Nothing's said if someone mocks Christianity. Whats wrong with immigrants having to adapt to our culture, rather than the other way round?
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Yes but thats my point, the Sharia law courts have no legal power and they never will do, if I got tried by a Sharia law court it would mean absolutely nothing, I would be under no legal obligation to do what they say, they are only there so that Muslims can settle personal disputes amongst themselves, the reason for Mosques being built is because whatever you say about Muslims they are very devout and almost all of them go and worship so they need somwhere to pray
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 My point is, while I agree with you that it should be the immigrants who have to adapt to our culture to an extent, if the EDL really cared about this and about 'freedom' they would target other ethnic groups like as you say Jews, strict Christians who believe in abortion even in the case of rape or forbid homosexuality. But they don't they just use these stupid invalid arguments such as the Sharia law courts to allow them to justify going on marches and incite racial hatred.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 So whats the point of even having the Sharia courts, all those costs just so Muslims can settle personal disputes isn't good enough, and Muslims that want Sharia Law courts in this country should be deported. Muslims can also pray in their own homes. Our country has its Christain roots, so I doubt they'd protest against that. Jews have a lot of power in the media, so nothing negative is ever said about them. Pub louts wouldn't see this. Its religious hatred, not all racial.
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 All those costs ??? Sharia law courts are funded privately not by the government so shouldn't the Muslims be allowed to do what they want with their own money seeing as the Sharia law courts are for their own benefit and have no power over anyone else as we previously discussed. All the stuff about Jews is irrelevant, coming back to main point there is simply no need or point in the EDL existing.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 Funded privately? I wonder where they get their money from. But anyway, I just don't agree with the courts being there. It doesn't feel like part of British culture. Thats why I say, they should adapt to ours. I think the EDL supporters should actually work out what they're doing. Its not just courts, its Mosques and treading on eggshells. The goverment aren't doing sod all, so that why extremist groups exist.
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Ok fine.
rustykeys178 1 month ago
@rustykeys178 No, because its not down to us humans to make up rules, thats the point of God! He's the only one that can judge us. I know, everyone believes in one God. Surely you'd not agree with a minority that are anti-freedom of speech and expression? One stupid comment? A white person would be labelled a racist and sacked on the spot. And its not her first time, she's made other racist comments in the past, but gets away with it cause she's black.
BENJIMANBREEG33 1 month ago
Real EDL members would not hurl abuse at black people. If someone did that then actually are racist. The message the EDL are trying to portray is in no way racist.
NB: Look at the muslims turn up with their flags. When are stupid white UAF dhimmi's going to realise that all muslims are muslim first and then whatever they claim to be second.
UAF are complete idiots. Next they will be sucking muslim cock just to help them complete their RACIST jihad.
AEDOI1 4 months ago
why is it that the edl members show their faces,yet the uaf hide theirs? are they ashamed of what they stand for? and before you blame me of being racist,bnp,edl or some such thing,I am not! I work for a living,love my family and my country, pay my taxes and still I am down trodden and would be blamed for something I am not.
spw1968 4 months ago
EDL all the way
claton95 4 months ago
UAF = UNGRATEFUL ARSEHOLE FOREIGNERS
Soundgarden8497 4 months ago
Fuck all you exstreamist cunts BNP, EDL Taliban your all the same all racist scum, it dont matter what colour you are! try searching 'English Frank' he speaks the truth in his words, (Btw he aint a racist lol).
DJamesxWG 5 months ago
@DJamesxWG its not even taliban involved ya tit its UAF which stand for Unite Against Fascism and are against racism and extremists too!
JazzarBizzle2006 4 months ago
@JazzarBizzle2006 Yeah i know that man, im all for UAF :D its just these nazi boys need to get with the times! we fought against fascism in WW2 probably some of them EDL boys grandads, its all this out dated skinhead wastemen thinking the UK is all about fucking tea and crumpets, for example some cut must have been in his late 40's come upto us and goes to my mate from nepal go back to Korea i was like wtf anyway we gave him grief and he walked away calling us traitors lol.
DJamesxWG 4 months ago
@DJamesxWG Respect!
JazzarBizzle2006 4 months ago
@DJamesxWG You silly little ignorant cunt. We also fought for freedom of speech, if you know what that means. It doesn't mean you can say what you like, as long as it doesn't offend selected groups of people. Course there a lot of idiots in the EDL and such. But jesus, if the UAF were in charge, they'd have people silenced for sure. That is fascism!! What are you, some little middle class kid living off mummy and daddy, who's working towards an "education"?
BENJIMANBREEG33 4 months ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 Haha! im not saying i want UAF in power i just like their ideas, im about labour over anything, ive been on protests i was protesting against student financial cuts and guess what, old mr fucking EDL turns up in his harington and starts shouting racist abuse at black police an insights violence into the crowd. i grew up in south london my mum worked 3 jobs at times so dont give it i havent got time for you Wastemen, and yeah im going to Uni next year to study Architecture Cunt!
DJamesxWG 4 months ago
@DJamesxWG Like their ideas? Baha, what fascists against fascism! Maybe you'll grow out of it. Something needed to be done about every person in this country wanting to go to uni. If they just want to go and study something so they can have a piss up, then they should pay for it themselves. I hope your drawing art is better than your musical art. You'll find that those racist people who think they stand for the EDL, actually don't. EDL are against fanatic muslims, a religion, not race.
BENJIMANBREEG33 4 months ago
@BENJIMANBREEG33 The EDL would be a more credible group if a significant amount of their membership didn't comprise of former football hooligans and wannabes who have watched too many films such as Green Street or Football Factory which are economically and politically illiterate to say the least.
The BNP actually does have some credibility, but the EDL.. is an embarrassment to the right. Suck it up.
Riotette 2 months ago
@Riotette I agree mate. And i've been saying exactly that. I met one of their organisers, and he was a nice guy, but some of the others were yeah, football hooligans. The UAF are just facists against facism. Pathetic hypocrites. The BNP would have more credibility if Nick Griffin wasn't in charge.
BENJIMANBREEG33 2 months ago
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@BENJIMANBREEG33
Absalutly agree.
Ive also noticed that the UAF mob NEVER oppose the true fascits.
Where were they when the muslims were holding up offencive plackards and shouting death threats to the Uk?
If they are so united against fascism where the hell were they when the muslims were burning poppies?
No wonder EDL was formed.
ogiaag5m 2 months ago
@Riotette it was the hooligans that stopped the police kicking the edl of the street in the begining
september7891 2 months ago
stupid british scum-ISLAM IS THE LEADING WORLD RELIGION WERE GONNA TAKE YOU ALL OVER!!
TheJaaysog 5 months ago
they don't even have the english flag they're not even patriots, man you're in England respect that at least
England muslims don't belong to you all my support from Colombia
ORaddlyispissedoff 5 months ago
J J JDL
raskinman 5 months ago
Fucking idiots all of them. The EDl are racist and the UAF are fascists.
mikesheen741 6 months ago
The main body of the EDL were at the castle 200 yards away, penned in by police away from the public, while the commies were allowed to march around the Market Square with their red flags all day. End days.
Aldeberan9 6 months ago
England really need to stop all immigration from non western countries. This is just going to get worse. I just dont see the benifit of mass immigration it is ruining England. English people will be the minority if it keeps going the way it is. The PC politicians are not listening to the people, thats why the EDL are growing.
Orthodox123456 6 months ago
The UAF look like Looters and Rioters.
JonestownHangover 6 months ago
Where was all you uaf guys when parts of London was being smashed up,the next day edl was in my area and they chased looters out of our area then half hour later police came. So thank you to the edl for saving the shops in our community have the uaf done anything like that?
8496ricko 6 months ago
@8496ricko The UAF were most likely amongst the rioters. The Socialist Workers Party were certainly trying their best to increase tensions and invoke a revolution. They put up posters saying 'Riot to Revolution'. Other leftists were busy making political capital out of it in order to push socialist policies.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Now what's a good little BNPer like yourself doing on an EDL video. I thought your party wanted nothing to do with them?
Let's face it, we both know it's only a matter of time before the BNP seek to use the riots as political capital. Your party has got previous for trying to start riots and destruction or trying to capitalize on it.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa A ''good little BNPer '' like myself is looking for UAF supporters. It is the fact that this is an anti-UAF video rather than an EDL one. The EDL is proscribed in the BNP. A member commenting on a video with the EDL in it does not equate to a merger.
There is no evidence that the BNP has ever tried to start riots and you certainly cannot blame this riot on the BNP! Riots as political capital? Like the left has been doing? The SWP even tried to incite a revolution.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Starter for ten, who said this .......
".......My aim was political. It was to cause a racial war in this country. There'd be a backlash from the ethnic minorities, then all the white people will go out and vote BNP......"
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Who do you think said it? You do realise that I would not take your word for anything since I know what the BNP are about and it is not about race war. I have not heard this quote if it exists and it would not change the fact the BNP represent the love and defence of our country and way of life against those leftists and those immigrant groups (I am aware that it is not all of them) who hate this country and its heritage. Go on then, who (apparently) said it and when?
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Give in?
Okay, it was from the Police interviews with David Copeland, after he planted bombs that killed three people and injured 139. You know him, he was in the BNP. Not much 'love' there.
Not much 'love' from the twelve times convicted prominent BNPer Tony Lecomber. How many petrol bombs and hand grenades, did the 5-O find at his house?
Not much 'love' in the conversation that he had with Joe Owens, the BNP Liverpool organiser.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Your argument is absurd. Copeland and Lecomber were absolutely in no way typical of BNP members. It is grossly unfair and ignorant to portray them as such. Would you portray bin Laden as representative of all Muslims?
The fact is that Copeland and Lecomber had the same misunderstanding as you. They found that the party were nothing like them so they disconnected themselves from the party. Your 'argument' is just a smear stemming from desperation.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Like it or not Copeland and Lecomber were members of the BNP. It makes you wonder what kind of message the BNP sends out, that makes people like them gravitate towards the party. Lecomber's misunderstandings aren't really the issue here, rather, how could someone like him rise so high up in the BNP's hierarchy.
"...bin Laden isn't representative of all Muslims..."
Yes that's right, the fact that you said that on an EDL video - priceless!
"..WHITE BOMBERS OFF OUR STREETS.."
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa People like them do not consider involvement with the BNP because of any message that the BNP sends out, but the false image of the party created by a media smear campaign. These individuals did not last long. Your comment is therefore a desperate attempt to smear the party. If Lecomber did ''rise high in the BNP's hierarchy'' then that implies that he did not tell the balanced members of the party what he was up to. If he did he would have been thrown out of the party...
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Or another way to look at it is, the BNP were quite happy to keep Lecomber, with all his numerous convictions, because they valued his organisational skills.
They keep him after his conviction in '82, keep him after his conviction in '85, keep him after his conviction in '86, keep him after his conviction in '91.
And it was only due to the press attention about his attempt to recruit Owen in order to assassinate politicians and members of the establishment, that they let him go.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You are like a dog with a bone aren't you? Let it go. You claim that Lecomber's convictions were in the 1980s (the BNP did not trust the convictions. Lack of trust in authority). We are in 2011! Clearly you feel you need to find justification for your simple-minded adherence to the anti-BNP cause. Have anything against the modern party? Anti-BNPers seem to be stuck in the 1980s. I suppose you believe that the modern Conservatives represent Enoch Powells 'Rivers of Blood' speech.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom I don't CLAIM anything about Lecomber's convictions, they're a matter of public record.
And I couldn't give a FUCK, how the BNP view them.
Don't even dare try to paint him as some sort of 'prisoner of conscience'. Any shred of respect, that I have for left you as a human being will vanish, if you push that line any further.
You tell me it's 2011, then refer to a speech made in '68 - Really?
Of course, Heath booted Powell out of the Cabinet after that speech.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa When did I try and portray Lecomber as a ''prisoner of conscience''?
I do not see why I bother trying to use examples to illustrate the flaws in your logic when you clearly miss the point. You are less intelligent than I thought (and I did not exactly have you down as a genius). The intricacies of the Powell case were not the point. This construction of the argument was. To use an (isolated)outdated example to represent the contempary party is flawed. That was the point.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..the BNP did not trust the convictions. Lack of trust in authority.."
Even with my limited intelligence, I can see that there's only one way to construe that statement. Care to retract it?
My flawed logic aside, I was perfectly able to understand your argument and my reply remains the same - when someone says or does something that brings their party into disrepute, then action must be taken.
It seems that the BNP have still to learn that lesson.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa The BNP do not wholly trust the authorities in this country. Why would I retract that and why would you want me to? How do you ''construe that statement''?
Whe someone brings the party into disrepute BNP do take action. You saying that because Lecomber was not instantly kicked out nearly 30 years that no-one has been kicked out? Griffin kicked Tyndall out of the party and he founded it! There are rules that members have to abide by or they get disciplined.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom ".. The BNP do not wholly trust the authorities in this country..."
Yeah, you've said that before, I'm asking you what you mean by that?
Do you mean the convictions were politically motivated?
The convictions were unsafe, a miscarriage of justice?
Was it " he woz fitted up"?
At least have the balls to say what you mean!
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa The comment ''...the BNP do not wholly trust the authorities in this country...'' is a general position that means that the authorities are composed of those hostile to the BNP and therefore there would be political ulterior motives in their treatment of the BNP. It would be naive to see the authorities as politically neutral. It may disappoint you but this does not necessarily say anything about Lecombers (now irrelevent) case. Keep on digging but you won't find anything.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Lecomber is RELEVANT, because that's who we're talking about, dummy!
First, you said he wasn't representative of the BNP.
Then, you said he "disconnected himself from the party"(?)
Then, you said people like him didn't last long in the party (Lecomber was an inaugural member of the BNP and remained a member until his removal in 2006.)
Then, you said the BNP weren't aware ......
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Lecomber is not relevant despite you talking about him. I am trying to talk about the modern BNP.
No, he was representative of the BNP since the BNP are democratic nationalist party and he did not act in this spirit.
The party ''disconnected'' him from the party by throwing him out.
Where do it say Lecomber was removed in 2006? You said 1991.
It is possible that the BNP only knew what was said in court.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom No, it was YOU who said that Lecomber disconnected HIMSELF from the party.
WRONG! The party finally SACKED HIM in 2006 after the publicity over his plans to murder prominent politicians.
A very clever man once said - "If you're going to lie, make sure that you've got a good memory"
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''... the party finally SACKED HIM..''
He was forced to resign/sacked. Whatever. The important thing is they got rid of him. Every organisation unfotunately has their loose cannons.
''- ''If your going to lie..''
What specifically have I lied about?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom "...resign/sacked. Whatever..."
I know, let's not get bogged down arguing semantics. The really important thing is that, first, you said that he left the BNP, then that the BNP know nothing about his activities, then that the BNP didn't trust the convictions.
That's the lie!
Failure to come clean about the attitude, membership and activities of the party that someone belongs to.
That's something that only an extremist would do.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''..He left the BNP...''
Yes. He was forced to resign. He was forced out once the party found out what he was up to.
Only an extremist would fail to come clean about attitude, membership and activities of a party? Would this apply to a Lab., Con. or LD member? How do you know that I know all the insides? I was not a member then, but I know that the party was not in on Lecomber's activities. I have found no evidence of wrongdoing by the party. Are you going to finally drop it?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..He was forced out once the party found out what he was up to..."
What, so just after the 'Owens plot' then? That means they were perfectly happy with the assault and explosives convictions. You could of saved yourself a lot of time and effort, had you just said that It was all before your time, but no, you had to spend weeks flipping and flopping between "he disconnected himself" - "the party didn't know" - "the party don't trust the legal system" .......
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa It was before my time, but I have done research on this and what I have found is not consistent with your interpretation. Why are you insistent that I ignore what I have found in order to accept yours?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom .......I mean, I still wouldn't of believed you, but you wouldn't of come across as such a massive bullshitter.
Two wrongs never make a right. This isn't about Lab or the Con'Dems. It's about the party that you support and campaign for.
Lecomber : "Can I have tomorrow off?"
BNP HR dept : "Why?"
Lecomber : "I've got to go to court."
BNP HR Dept : "What for?"
Lecomber : "Ummm......ehhh....Parking tickets."
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@wodenwisdom
BNP HR. Dept : "Tony, you've been off work for a few years. What's up?"
Lecomber : "Ermm.....Hangover."
You may swallow that, but don't expect others to!
I'm sorry that my questions make you uncomfortable, but I'm not going to drop it.
Not until you're honest about your party.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom ..... off his actions. (don't you guys read the papers?)
Then, came the famous "..BNP don't trust the authorities.." line.
I keep on 'digging' and you keep on giving one excuse after another, one that contradicts the last.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ...The EDL do not work on the premise that every Muslim is a terrorist (even though that does not mean that most Muslims don't support their aims). They, and nationalist parties, work on the premise that Britain is undergoing creeping Islamification, and in order for our indigenous north European identity to be preserved, this process has to halted (EDL with more direct tactics and the BNP through the democratic process)...
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..the EDL work on the premise.."
Oh come on, you're giving them far more credit for their intelligence, than they actually display.
The EDL, what's that?
They're just a 'flash-mob' for fuckwits and football hooligans.
You've just got to look at their embarrassing stance over halal KFC or their complete failure to understand sharia 'courts', to realise their inability to even comprehend the nature of any supposed Islamification.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Do you understand Sharia courts? I suppose that you believe that anyone who does not unquestionly accept them because they are islamic fails ''to understand'' them. There are 85...so far. Do you know how they treat women? That Sharia is based on direct interpretations from the koran so therefore based on arbitrary judgements and punishments? That it is an alien system that is poised to be a rival to our legal system? I suppose you cannot see with your head in the sand.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom No, I think that a lot of people who oppose Sharia, do so out of ignorance or by willfully misrepresenting it. We're not talking about legal pluralism, but about arbitration, mediation and guidance.
It always bothers me, when we talk about women's legal rights, in a country with an appallingly low rape conviction, where 1 in 4 women will experience domestic violence and are still not paid the same or treated the same as their male counterparts.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You are clearly one of al-Qaeda's useful idiots. I suppose you are mindlessly defending sharia because you believe it is 'racist' to criticise it? There is much in this barbaric legal system for an enlightened person to find abhorrent. 'Misrepresenting' it? I suppose you mean not presenting its less barbaric aspects and backward aspects? It comes as a package.
''Legal pluralism''? We are talking about a plurality in ''arbitration, mediation and guidance''. Slippery slope...
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom First I was a stooge for UAF, then I was unwitting agent of the international Communist conspiracy, now it seems I'm a sock puppet for a global terrorist network. I must admit, I do take some sort of perverse pleasure in charting my rise up through the upper echelons of world politics.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''...i was unwitting agent of the international Communist conspiracy..''
I did not suggest you were but if you admit it! It would explain a few things... Seriously you are useful to Islamist organisations since you try to discredit those people and organisations who are standing in the way of these people and their aims. You may think you are doing good in the world but you need to consider who takes advantage of your naivety.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Having the kind of personality that makes me suffer fools like you, I also have a total recall of all the pish that they utter. You once said that I must have been subconsciously influenced by Marxist ideology.
Combine that with your oft-claimed suggestions about my links to UAF and the new revelations that I'm a fall guy for al-Qaeda.
Get it now?
I know that whatever I say goes in one ear and out the other, but I'd thought you'd have some sort of memory of your own ramblings.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa The main marxist idea that is permeating Britain today is the argument that minority necessarily equals victim, Muslims (or any minority) are a minority so therefore they are a victim. Your thinking seems to be along these lines. Marxist ideas are poisoning this country to a greater extent than many people realise. You do not need to remind of what I have said in previous posts. I remember.
A poignant argument is a rambling to those who do not understand it.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom Hands up, you got me there. I do believe Muslims are victims,
They're victims of profiling and harassment when flying out of Glasgow airport. They're victims in Birmingham, when the Police place hidden spy cameras in their communities. They're victims in Tower Hamlets over the weekend, when they can't go about their business, due to the actions of the EDL. And they're victims when a MP is allowed to go unchallenged, when she claims that children are being used as suicide bombers.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You are wrong Muslims are not victims. When the majority of terrorists are muslim then why would old white ladies, for example, be profiled? When muslim communities fail to hand over terrorists from their communities then why shouldn't the native population look for them in order to defend ourselves? The EDL was set up in response to the actions of Islamic fundamentalists whom muslims do nothing about. Muslims should look at their own actions. Stop making excuses on their behalf
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom Let's stigmatise all Muslims. Perhaps we could bring back internment. That worked well against the Irish, didn't it?
By creating a generation of people with a hatred of British establishment is as good a self-fulfilling prophecy as any.
You spend so much time defending THE CONVICTED TERRORIST TONY LECOMBER, and then chastise others for apparently not doing enough to highlight the extremists in their communities - hypocrite much?
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You are saying that it is a straight choice of either seeing Muslims as victims or stigmatising them? What I am saying is is that Muslims should be held to account for their actions as much as the rest of us.
I have not once defended Lecomber and if any extremists are found in the BNP then they should be expelled (and are). Do you have a poor memory or are trying to cynically portray me as an apologist for extremism?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..Muslims should be held account for their actions..."
Yes, I quite agree. Being held to account for the actions of others, like those claiming to act the name of their religion or perverting the message of the faith, well that's something very different, isn't it?
That's something that only an extremist would do.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''Being held to account for the actions of others...''
When I mention '''actions'' I do not just mean terrorism. Other actions can include failure to combat fundamentalism within their communities, lack of respect for our heritage and culture, the extent to which increasing areas of our country is being Islamicised. I judge individuals on their actions and all Muslims I have encountered so far fail on these. I am open to individuals who do not fail on these counts.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom I doubt very much that you've actually met many Muslims, but instead just watch countless YouTube videos of fuck-wits like Anjem Choudary or Omar Bakri Muhammad.
Maybe you need to get out more?
I've known and worked with a number of Muslims and they've all been cool. None of them ever came up to my face, screaming- "Death to the west!" or "Die infidel!" (maybe they do it behind my back, eh?).
In fact, I never knew one guy was a Muslim, until he started fasting at Ramadan.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa No, I have actually met muslims. Are claiming that anyone who meets muslims would therefore be open to the increasing influence of Islam? How?
You cannot support the Islamification of Britain because a few muslims who you have worked with have ''all been cool''. You have clearly let the fact that these individuals have not threatened to kill you to blind you to the wider cultural issue and the threat of Islamic cultural influence.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom " I do apologise. That's right, you never defended Lecomber, just the party that stuck with him for some 20 odd years. During which time, he was convicted on numerous terrorist and violent offences.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom By stating that most of those who oppose the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, do so out of ignorance or because it fits in with their anti-Islamic agenda, doesn't make me a stooge to anyone.
It's just my opinion.
You've got to question the motivation behind someone reading the above statement and then labeling the commentator as a shill.
What's the stimulus behind it?
You've spent years trying to DISCREDIT the BNP's opponents, whilst NAIVELY following them without question.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''...stating that most of those who oppose the MAT,do so out of ignorance... doesn't make me a stooge...''
If not being a ''stooge'' then it must be naivety and/or being misinformed. Allowing Muslim's to practice their legal traditions in our country will not necessarily lead to Muslims respecting British legal traditions. Give people in inch and they will take a mile.
''...NAIVELY following them without question''
You accusing ME of naivety?
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom "...Give people in inch and they will take a mile..."
Sounds suspiciously like "...In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the MUSLIM will have the whip hand over the white man."
And it seems we're back to Enoch.
Christ, that silly old bastard sure does get around.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''Sounds...like''...In this country in 15 or 20 years time the MUSLIM will have the hand over the white man''
So you have managed to get a completely different sentence from the one I provided and bring in Enoch. Who mentioned ''15'' or ''20''? It would take longer than that even with current immigration levels and birthrates. Certainly before the end of the century at this rate. It would not just be the ''white man'' who muslims would ''have the whip over''.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom "...It would not just be the ''white man'' who muslims would ''have the whip over...''
Ha Ha Ha, the BNP Viking warrior wrestler is getting pounded into the canvas, so he desperately reaches out a feeble hand, trying to tag the Big Black Buck standing on the other side of the ropes. Tears streaming down his face, he meekly pleads - "help me brother, we're all in this together".
Sad times indeed.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom I've never mentioned 'race' once in this entire thread. It's you that brought it up.
I guess it's easier for you to win an argument if you supply both sides of the conversation, but it's not really fair, in fact it's just cheating.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..There is much in this barbaric legal system for an enlightened person to find abhorrent.."
Care to tell us exactly what you find abhorrent in a British sharia system?
Although, I don't know why I bother, I'm still waiting on the solid evidence on British Muslims hatred of this country, that I asked you for some time ago.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa The fact that Sharia derives from the Koran is itself abhorrent. Execution for adultery, apostasy and criticising Islam. It demands deference to the authoritarian laws of Islam so therefore clamps down on individual liberty and freedom of thought and expression. I suppose you support this since you are clearly deferential to Islam anyway.
The Islamification of this country and the blatant disregard for our heritage is not evidence for you of Islamic contempt of Britain?
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom This country doesn't have the death penalty, so mentioning executions is a bit nonsensical, isn't it?
Why'd you do that?
See what I mean about ignorance or willful misrepresentation.
Name me any community, society, state or country on the face of this planet, that DOESN'T require deference to authoritarian laws (written or unwritten) ?
I would of course mention that nowhere in the Qur'an does it demand the killing of apostates.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''this country doesn't have the death penalty, so mentioning executions is a bit nonensical, isn't it?''
No. With an Islamic majority it could theoretically be re-introduced for 'offences' under sharia.
The question is not deference to laws but laws requiring deference to religion.
Islamic laws are not just mentioned in the Koran, but are also implied in the Hadith.
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom If you're talking about countries with an Islamic majority, how would you explain a country like Indonesia, a country with the highest Muslim population in the world.
It doesn't have Sharia Law and the majority of the 80% Muslim population in a land containing 237 million people don't support its introduction.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Muslims in Indonesia are considered to be under Islamic law. It is considered illegal for a muslim to drink alcohol for example. Alcohol is only found in certain areas mostly for the benefit of western tourists.
An Islamic majority in itself would be bad enough in Europe and, even if it was the case that not every Islamic majority pursued sharia in a zealous manner, you do not know that it would not happen here. You are a starnge little atheist if you defend Islam.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..considered to be .."
Either it's illegal or not. Or do you mean it's sale is licensed, there are restrictions on who can buy it, where and when it can be bought and where it can be consumed.
I hope the Muslims don't bring those kind of laws into this country.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''Either it's illegal or not...''
I see you are desperately trying to stray from the main point. Many regions in Indonesia have banned alcohol and this tends to be enforced by groups of vigilantes despite it apparently being a secular state . Yes, I hope ''Muslims don't bring this kind of laws into this country''.
Alchohol laws are not the main point, keeping Britain British for future generations is.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom No, I'm desperately trying to nail the ambiguity of you saying "considered illegal".
Indonesia is a country made up of some thirteen and a half thousand islands and thirty odd provinces, some of which are seeking separation or autonomy. Saying "considered illegal" is pretty vague.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa Indonesia does not have a national law on alcohol consumption. It has been banned on a region by region basis and the outlawing of consumption seems to be majority view. It does not mean drinkers in other regions are completely unmolested either. Does that make it clear?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom Hey dummy! We already have those kind of laws in this country. The shop near me, requires that you be at least 25 yrs old not 18 to buy alcohol. It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't buy alcohol in a supermarket on the sabbath. And different councils have different licensing rules.
Don't bring up Alchohol laws, if you don't fully understand them.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa What? I said that in Indonesia many regions have banned alcohol and these laws tend to be enforced by vigilantes. Did you actually read the last post on this subject. You claim that ''we already have those kind of laws in this country''. Name a region in Britain where alcohol has been banned.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom The "..kind of laws.." that I mentioned already exist or have existed in this country. That's why I mentioned voluntary age-restricted sales, licensing and retail laws, local by-laws, minimum price legislation and 'dry towns'. This is why saying something is 'considered' illegal is pretty shaky.
Vigilantes eh? So that's where the EDL got the idea from.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You seem to be confused. You claimed that the alcohol laws in the Islamic country of Indonesia are equivalent to those in this country. As I said, and you did not seem to notice, many regions of Indonesia banned alcohol. You have not explained how the regional banning of alcohol is equivalent to our age restriction laws.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
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@SuperMoominpapa Muslims in Indonesia are considered to be under Islamic law. It is considered illegal for a muslim to drink alcohol for example. Alcohol is only found in certain areas mostly for the benefit of western tourists.
An Islamic majority in itself would be bad enough in Europe and, even if it was the case that not every Islamic majority pursued sharia in a zealous manner, you do not know that it would not happen here. You are a starnge little atheist if you defend Islam.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom I'll admit I had to dig out my dictionary, to look up the word "deferential", and I was right, it did mean ~ showing or expressing polite respect or courtesy. You made it sound like an insult.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom I don't know how "deferential" I am. Every weekend I consume practically my own considerable body weight in Rioja and chorizo and have been an atheist since I was a child. However I do believe in reciprocity and that there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, so there must be one or two good ones.
I also believe that to generalise is ignorant and that to use that generalistion in support of an argument deserves to be questioned.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''...have been an atheist since I was a child. However I do believe in reciprocity...''
It is clear now what lies at the heart of your apologist attitude towards Islam. Naivety. You may believe in reciprocity but it relies on the other side also believing in it otherwise it does not work. You may not see yourself as deferential but someone else may interpret it as such. They would certainly not see the relationship as equal. There needs to be more than ''one or two good ones'
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom "..one or two good ones.."
That's what us grown-ups call tongue in cheek.
It's not my fault that you have neither the wit nor intellect to understand that.
This might prove problematic as I'm going to be moving at speed and hitting a number of points, so I don't necessarily have the time to stop and guide you, by the hand, through the subtleties of human expression. Or do I have to punctuate every sentence with an helpful emoticon, so that you don't get lost?
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''That's what us grown-ups call...''
Before you start casting doubt on my intellect for being opposed to Islam, think about how it is absurd for someone who claims to be an atheist to defend the most fanatical monotheist religion in the world. In the hierarchy of non-Muslims atheists are only one-up from apostates. If you want to prove the apparent tolerance of islam go to Saudi Arabia and publicly proclaim your rejection of God.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom No, I'm casting doubt on your intellect full stop. It's the weakest fuckin' argument in the world to say - that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here. Since when did a feudal monarchy like Saudi Arabia become the benchmark for other countries to aspire to?
Doing away with childish comparisons is another thing that us grown-ups do.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here.''
That is not my argument. I did not argue that we should stop doing muslims here what we can't do in Saudi Arabia. You say that you cast doubt on my intellect but you cannot even recreate my arguments properly. My argument is that what we cannot do in Muslim countries our descendents will be unable to do here. It is not worth taking the risk even if it is not certain, but it is very likely.
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here''
It is ironic that you question my intellect when you cannot even recreate my argument. I did not argue that we should ban muslim's from doing what we can't do in Saudi Arabia, I argued that our descendents could be banned from doing what non-muslims are banned from doing in Saudi Arabia if we allow this country to be Islamicised. Why take the risk?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
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@SuperMoominpapa ''...that if we can't do it over there, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it here''
It is ironic that you question my intellect when you cannot even recreate my argument. I did not argue that we should ban muslim's from doing what we can't do in Saudi Arabia, I argued that our descendents could be banned from doing what non-muslims are banned from doing in Saudi Arabia if we allow this country to be Islamicised. Why take the risk?
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom Going all the way to Mecca, just to cause offense? No thanks, that would be like going to Pyongyang, to denounce socialism or going to Norwich and rejecting inbreeding. I've never been punched in the face by a hand with six fingers, but it'd bet it probably hurts.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa ''Going all the way just to Mecca, just to cause offence?''
You are saying that Muslims in SA would be offended by expressions of atheism? Under your idea of reciprocity I am sure if you do this nicely enough they will nicely tolerate your atheism. Your sentiments seem to be contradicting your previous ones in which Islam is based on peace and tolerance (not quoting you, this is the impression that you are giving).
wodenswisdom 5 months ago
@wodenswisdom So the fact that the MAT function under the Arbitration Act (1996) with reference to alternative dispute resolution, that's your solid evidence of the "Islamification" of Britain and their contempt for everything there in. I'm sorry, but you're going to work a bit harder to convince me to pack all my belongings into a Viking longship and set sail north.
SuperMoominpapa 6 months ago
@SuperMoominpapa You have your head so far in the sand that I do not see how I am going to convince you about creeping Islamification without personally taking you on a national tour. Would it take the establishment of a UK caliphate to convince you? Do some research (with your eyes open). For a start, in 1960 there were 7 mosques in Britain. Now there are nearly 2000. Go through national and local newspapers, the amount of planning applications for mosques and the sites of these...
wodenswisdom 6 months ago
@wodenswisdom A national tour...woooo! I bagsy the window seat.
No, seriously, nothing in this world, would induce me to spend days trapped inside a National Express coach with you. Every time we turned a corner, your dumb little Viking helmet poking me on the side of my head, or the worry that you'll knock on my hotel-room door, drunk, at two in the morning, looking for 'company'.
SuperMoominpapa 5 months ago