Fundamentalist are living their lives more closely to what Joseph Smith and the early prophets taught. They, in a sense, are more devoted to their "prophet", Joseph Smith. The early founders of the church said that for a man to become a god, he must practice polygamy. Only those who enter in the highest glory are those who are practicing it. So did the mormon prophets lie about this? or are the mainstream mormons not doing what they are supposed to?
Why was LDS General Authority Councilor Steven Snow the FLDS/Colorado Attorney in Snow & Nuffer for over a decade, if in deed the FLDS were to be shunned and excommunicated? Shunned would include, not taking FLDS blood money wouldn't it?
Mormons operate the way an effective political campaign does. They demonize their opponents. Look at JackNimble61 and how all he can say is that those who bring history and truth to light are "DECIEVERS OF THE FIRST ORDER!" Whatever the f&%k that means? Their tactic is to label any and all information that does not support belief in the church as being from Satan. Its very blatant. It fills its members with hate for those that they label "anti-mormons". I'm not anti. The truth is its BS.
The only ones being deceptive are the leaders of the Mormon faith. Being myself raised LDS and even serving an LDS mission, I realize as an educated adult, that the church only exists because it has a very effective marketing, sales, and censorship system down. The church discourages members to read, see or hear any evidence that the origins of the organization are based upon lies and fraud. Archeological, historical, and DNA evidence all show the Book of Mormon is fictitious.
Polygamy was practiced long after 1890. Abraham Canon committed suicide after Joseph F Smith "counsuled" him into it and it was discovered. Smoot was a polygamist and J. F. Smith also gave testimony in congress that he was a polygamist and had married after 1890. He counsuled many into it as did others in the Hierarchy.
I'm not here to argue or start anything but wasn't or doesn't it state that polygamy is an eternal commandment? To me that means its a commandment that MUST always be practiced !!! If it was just for a short time shouldn't it state that? like D&C 101:4 stated 1 man and 1 wife (oh I forgot that was taken out) my bad!!!
@genexrollins Here, Here, and all the Hierarchy was like that. Once the US Fed Gov't returned the forfeited Mormon Church property (c 1895) the Hierarchy went right back to their lying colluding ways.
@Revelationthree20 There's no reason for D&C 132 to be removed. You don't ask for the removal of Mosaic law such as stoning for certain offenses. And even if the LDS do practice polygamy throughout the eternities, what concern is it of yours? You don't have to practice it.
@JackNimble61 yeah who cares about women stupid enough to share their man with other women..WOW..low self esteem or what?if it was the other way around...would you be okay sleeping in a house and your wife is in teh rooom with another man and thats supposed to be OKAY?
@DrRocksotheClown You either have no idea about what you're talking about or you're purposely being dishonest. I say the former because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt unlike what you do for us.
Most people that do not try to understand the concept of celestial marriage don't understand the concept of eternal family either. Too bad.
@JackNimble61 Many "revelations" of JSmith and other have been removed and or heavily redacted. Removing D&C 132 would be a good step. Then I wouldn't "feel" the threat of JSmith saying it "nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts".
@IExposeMormonism The Joseph Smith Papers give a full accounting of Joseph's writings and revelations. There is nothing hidden. You are known throughout the LDS youtube community for a deceiver and militant anti-Mormon. You are and your opinions are not trusted here.
@JackNimble61 I'm quoting Mormon sources for Polygamy being practiced well after 1890. And thanks for the compliment. It's good to know people are listening. The truth will set you free. And the truth is Jesus and his dad are not polytheistic polygamists. But Mormonism is. Light!
@IExposeMormonism You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and introduced itself and proved itself to be the truth. You are a deceiver of the FIRST ORDER.
@JackNimble61 I posted "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", 1905, J. F Smith. You might want to read it. I am quoting Frank Cannon on Abraham Cannon and J. F. Smith. "Under The Prophet in Utah", 1911. Frank has a lot to say and he is no Anti Mormon. Have you had a taste of Adam=God Doctrine? yummmy!
@IExposeMormonism There is nothing you have to offer, as the deceiver you are, that is relevant to Christ's church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
the only thing you have demonstrated is MORmONS unlimited willingness to LIE & DECEIVE (even & especially themselves) on this matter of EVIL that runs right through the middle of the MORmON religion! you are a sickening LIAR & an instrument of Satan!
Jeff's and co are the true Mormons. They adhere to All the original tenets of Abraham. And it's a "suspended" document. Not another revelation canceling the D&C132. Joseph F Smith "counseled" Adam Cannon into Polygamy, c1895. Cannon was discovered. This endangered the LDS church which had just received back from the Fed Gov't all of the LDS property forfeited earlier. Did you know this? Cannon committed suicide rather than let the LDS hierarchy/church suffer. For the hypocrisy.
polygamy is one of the fruits of Joseph Smith. The LDS Church still practises polygamy posthumously. A priesthood holder can be sealed to more than one woman if the first wife is dead. An LDS woman can not be sealed to another man is she is sealed to a husband that is dead. Same rule for civil divorce. Many LDS men are sealed to more than one wife even today.
@rd1999 So if its false why do you care? Polygamy has been around since old testament times. Many parts of the world practiced it throughout ages of time. If you don't believe you can be sealed... what does it matter?
@faanunu It matters because I have raised my children in this faith and we live in America and i feel that polygamy is not out of the Church's blood and may rear it's ugly head again in future. I don't trust the leadership frankly. if Joseph Smith could justify marrying other men's wives then who is to say that my kids might be exposed to that kind of abuse of power in future. My wife and I are sealed to each other thank you very much
I'm not even Mormon, but for you to say you're a Mormon, yet "don't trust the leadership," is complete and utter foolishness. Haven't you read your own Doctrine and Covenants? It says at the very beginning of the manifesto that God will never allow the president of the LDS church to lead its members astray.
If you can't trust your own scriptures, let alone your leaders, what is your faith built upon? Sand.
I would recommend finding a faith built upon a rock.
Ah, I thought your name looked familiar. I just went to your channel and remembered who your were.
If you don't remember me, I'm the one that used to be a supporter of polygamy before leaving the church. You addressed me in a rather rude manner, stating that people like me "scare the hell" out of you, and that I was like a "dog turning back to its vomit."
Face it, friend. You're not a true Mormon; you deny foundational LDS doctrines.
@05lowell05 I'm just not a sheep my friend, I think for myself. I know the doctrine, I just don't agree with all of it and the more members I speak to the more I find they don't agree with these former teachings either. I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Most members in our local ward know where I stand and have no complex about holding a temple recommend either.
I just can't understand how you could be part of a church which you know teachings false doctrines.
Are these men truly prophets, seers, and revelators if they continually lead the sons of men astray? Can you honestly hold your head up high when you have to say, "Yes, my prophet was a polygamist, he stole the wives of others, and he was a liar, but I trust my eternal salvation to the things he taught."
@05lowell05 I agree with you and can understand why you left. For me...I have to come to an answer to explain the Book of Mormon before I can walk away from it. Every person said Joesph dictated it out of a hat looking at magic stones. I find that hard to get my head around having read the book and appreciating how complex it is. I also have had several Spiritual experiences that keep me grounded. in the end I have to ask is it really such a bad way to live?
Yes, but other religious texts, such as the Qur'an for example, are on an entirely different level when compared to the Book of Mormon. It would be far from impossible for Joseph Smith the make up the Book of Mormon, especially with all the rich, educated men he had helping him.
As to the spiritual experiences, I know what you mean. I had incredible "spiritual" experiences while Mormon. I've had them outside the church too; I've concluded that they're just the work of the mind.
@05lowell05 I think the Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph and the others were scribes. The is no way any of the men involved knew what chiasmus was or the proper interpretations of old Jewish law that were in the Book of Mormon. Even Oliver Cowdery, whom left the church for a time, never ever claimed to have written it, himself, nor did he recant his testimony of it even when doing so could have won him political favor.
Actually, it would not have brought Oliver Cowdery political favor had he said he helped write the Book of Mormon; it would have exposed him to be, without a doubt, a liar. He would never be trusted in the public eye again.
It would not have been impossible for Joseph Smith to know what chiasmus was, as he had a Hebrew Instructor. All of what you have said is called "faith-promoting rumor." It can all be fully explained logically, but people choose to say it was miraculous.
@05lowell05 Well, stating that he helped write the Book of Mormon WOULD have been a lie since he only helped translate it by being a scribe. He attempted to translate but could not. He wasn't trusted because he was involved with the Mormons and was trying to gain political office. Recanting and saying that the story was all a farce would have gained him political allies.
Joseph's instructor came years after the Book of Mormon was published.
Recanting would have only proved without a doubt that he had a history of lying. It would have in no way helped him. Additionally, Oliver Cowdery didn't leave the church, he was excommunicated. He was among those called the "dissenters." It is also interesting to note that Martin Harris once admitted to a reporter that he didn't actually see the golden plates, he just felt moved by the spirit "much like the good Methodist."
@05lowell05 Cowdery tried to resign from the church but was ex'ed at a church court he chose not to attend. Martin Harris did not recant his testimony.
Moreover, in any case, Joseph Smith wouldn't have needed their help. All he did was say words and they wrote them down. It is also noteworthy that the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon contains many English errors and "farm-boy slang," further proving it was the work of man.
Have you ever read an 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon?
@05lowell05 The editing that was done to the 1830 edition was practically all grammatical such as punctuation and such. And yes, I have. In fact I just gave a copy to one of my dearest friends.
@rd1999 "in the end I have to ask is it really such a bad way to live?"
i used to think that way as well. at the end of the day, it comes down to whether or not you have the integrity (or lack thereof) to fool not just just others, but more importantly yourself. If you have doubts, you owe it to yourself to know the truth.
its about a little less than 500 years between New Testament and Old Testament. Its now over 2000 years later. whens God sposed to speak to us agian? i think its been quite past over due.
Who decided polygamy was bad. Programming did. As people were programmed the things they believe through television and such. 100 years ago, gay marriage was a joke. Now there are people fighting for it. Whats wrong with gay marriage? Whats wrong with Polygamy? Whats wrong with polytheism? Who even said there has to be only 1 god? You were all PROGRAMMED.
You struggle to understand why god commanded Joseph Smith to practice polygamy? How about a dose of reality, It never was commanded and Joseph was just a pervert and a fraud. There was no reason for polygamy, at all
Polygamy was always against US laws, and by the way was always against Mexico and Canada laws. Mormons today are brainwashed to believe polygamy stopped because the law changed when that is blatantly false. Anyone interested in the truth can easily research the truth and realize this argument is groundless.
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach. . . . Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."
Bishops, Deacons, Elders, Pastors virtually all church officials etc are called by Scripture to have one (1) wife and no more ... the contextual message is clear if you want to read the entire passage.
Am I the only person to notice a trend in Holy men? it seems that men like J Smith, J. Swaggert, D. Koresh, J Bakker, J. Jones and dozens (or 100's) of other self-proclaimed Holy men get into the God business to score more booty - If J Smith was wrong about multiple wives he simply cannot be a Prophet ... The LDS church is trying HARD to get away from the stigmatization but it remains central to fundamental and foundational Mormonism.
What people need to do is read the official declaration of the church. It's found in the doctrine and covenants at the heart of the matter. What most people do is look for
"fringe information" and they find this in quotes made by certain men... some Apostles, some Prophet, in a Journal of Discourses entry here, a Millennial star entry there... commentary of a non-mormon or an ex-mormon who self-interpret what was done by the early church and add their own spin on it.
I posted Joseph F Smith, 1905, "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy". He says J Smith was killed at Carthage Because of Polygamy. I also posted legal transcript and more showing Polygamy in 1915. I Even Posted "Polygamy Caves in the Grand Canyon"! I would sure like to find them, they have stalagmites and 'tites
Never forget the Lord's hand in this decision. It had to be a directive given by God. The practice was modified to include those marriage as binding in the Lord. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. A man can take another. The Lord decided to discontinue this and perhaps the saints were faithful in it to the end, which must have been pleasing to him even when they read Jacob chapters 1-2 for themselves, it must have been hard to do it
Everlasting covenant of marriage. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. These are your words I believe, and if Marriage is everlasting, meaning continual even after our death on earth, and yet we partake in taking another spouse by vowing and engaging in the everlasting covenant of marriage is this not taking more than one wife, is this not polygamy?
I don't pretend to know and understand the eternal nature of plural marriage since I personally have not, and hope never to, lost my eternal companion. It is understandable that a man may remarry in a temple and be sealed to another wife so long as this woman is not already sealed. The Lord desires that families be raised with help. If both people involved have become widows or widowers and they are already sealed to their deceased spouses, it is not necessary to seal again.
So youre saying a man, who has also lost his eternal spouse whom he was sealed to for eternity, may remarry in a temple and be sealed to another wife so long as this woman is not already sealed. Hearing this, what I dont understand is if man has a soul, that soul being immortal, and if marriage is eternal (something I do not believe), how would it be possible to re-marry and not be taking on another spouse since you claim marriage is eternal. It is polygamy in the full since of the word.
I never said it wasn't plural marriage. The discontinuing the temporal practice of it this did not mean we denounce the practice.
You seem to want answers and you pose good questions and for this, I thank you. You actually have a brain and are able to use it. (which says a lot since most of the yahoo's don't really intend to hear me out bc they like to argue) mormontempleceremonydotnet may have additional answers for you and its better that you go to the source on this one.
If you trully believed Joseph Smith was a prophet why would he teach doctrine that would evantually be abandoned. How could a Church that is led continuously by inspired prophets teach doctrines that are later discarded?
It did not effect the new and everlasting covenant of marriage... but since the Lord revealed that we believe in being subject to the laws of the Land. Another article of faith suggest that we believe in what the Lord has revealed, what he does now reveal and that he will yet reveal things to us. The Lord can offer up new revelation on the matter.
Everlasting covenant of marriage. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. These are your words I believe, and if Marriage is everlasting, meaning continual even after our death on earth, and yet we partake in taking another spouse by vowing and engaging in the everlasting covenant of marriage is this not taking more than one wife, is this not polygamy?
The problem moron is that "the Lord" isn't saying shit its the morons you follow who have changed just about every taught doctrine by its founder JS. WHy not join reality and read the Journal of Discourses or go fuck yourself and make a video of that you fucking liar! Polygamy started not in Utah but started with JS who never came to Utah wake the fuck up and at leas look at the LDS Ancestory File for God sake you brainwashed idiot
What makes you think that we don't know our own history? We know our history but we know it free from the spin and commentary made by opponents of the church both outside and apostate. As far as make a video about it? As far as making a video? I probably should and I do make home made material. I first got online because there seemed to be a virtual monopoly on what was being said about Mormons and it was based on hearsay and quoting things written by Mormons but doing so out of context.
@THELDSLIFE "Outside and Apostate" ... ? Mormon arrogance is off scale ... I know for a fact that all Mormons MUST be doing 1 of 2 things --> #1~ Ignoring the history of J Smith and the LDS church or #2 ~ Willfully beliving a lie to suit a selfish need ... if you ,as you say, know the history of your "Church" and your "Prophet" and continue on the path you are on then I suppose you will only have the option of shuddering in bitter tears before the Throne of Christ when the time comes.
@hammerogod - When is our history ever interpreted by the scorned or the misinformed? I've heard the same passages of Church history quoted but it's easier to make someone's point seem believable if they omit who wrote that part, when it was written and what relevance it actually has to the events.
In other words, folks will suggest that Joseph Smith shows lack of humility for one thing written when he was not the author of the comment or quote.
I read church history... just not with your spin.
@hammerogod Yeah I think its far better to pat Mormons on the back and be nice and friendly. That has sure accomplished a lot for Christianity hasn't it since Mormons are building more temples and buildings then ever before not to mention a 5 billion dollar mall. Coddling Mormons keeps them Mormon. They need a significant emotional event and some one to call them out as the dumb assed brainwashed sick bastards they are.
I think you faiiled to mention that until 1945 the LDS Church was led by a polygamous leadership. Grant, the prophet himself was a polygamist which you can confirm on your LDS ancestory search site. You presented the faithful version of polygamy accepted today however also stated it took place in Utah. Use the same site mentioned above to check how many wives JS had and he did not come to Utah. You are also misinformed about excommunication. Only those who were exposed for polygamy were ex'd
If my wife should die, I could marry again in the temple. There is no bearing on whether I could marry again or not. I could marry a second wife there just the same. You'll have to read the official declaration to understand the reasons why aren't only limited to, "Just because it's against the law now."
The Lord giveth... the Lord taketh away is true for us just as it is for all christendom.
In a sense, it hasn't been squelched from the earth. It exists in a "lawful form"
@THELDSLIFE First of all I'm not impressed by your dissonance. If you would wake up jack ass and go do some basic research you would realize polygamy was always against the law moron. Second, a make gets a temple clearance not a cancellation to remarry in the temple. I know I've been through it. What that means is your sealed and married to more than one women in eternity. How many plural marriages were performed after the second manifesto? THe answer can easily be found in Moron sources.
I notice that you forgot to mention that Josph F. Smith was convicted of violating Utah's anti-polygamy laws in 1904, resulting in the Second Manifesto.
This begs the question: if the prophet doesn't have to play by the rules, who do they apply to?
You are misinformed. Read the LDS handbook of instruction about the belief. They are both sealed equally to the husband. Even for men today. Ballard, Nelson, and others have talked about their spiritual wives.
About Joseph Smith's polygamy.... I have a strong hope that the Savior is the person I read about who lifted children onto his knee and blessed them, not someone who would send an angel with a sword to enforce any intimate relationship, let alone a polygamous relationship.
Is there a connection to Jeffs, etc? The answer is Yes! It wasn't just expressed in Utah it was common to Nauvoo. Joseph F Smith, 1905, "Blood Atonement and the origin of Polygamy" states the cause of JS death at Carthage was Polygamy. He should know...And having my marriages and contracts nullified while simultaneously declaring polygamy for oneself seems, well, over the top. But maybe I'm being selfish. I posted the Polygamy Rev and the JFSmith book.
Correct, Jeff's was just teaching and practicing the true way of Joseph Smith and others. He was following their latter day lies for personal justification. Both are cults.
The reason the FLDS is disowned like a wicked step child isn't because they practice polygamy. No, its for not Obeying the Mormon Hierarchy. Say it again. The Mormon Hierarchy is concerned with power and authority. Non obedient Doctrine lovin' Mormons, no matter how well they practice Joe Smiths Mormonism, are disobedient to the Hierarchy. Soon enough Mormon Polygamy will be legal and all hell will break out again. And the US GOv't will do Nothing to protect your contracts and marriage;its legal
, what if someone showed u a bible verse quoted directly from Jesus, this is that verse it is something to read,,
Matthew 22: 24-34, its from Jesus himself, we all know he is absolutely the truth u agree on that ,,,so who do u believe in now,, Emmanuel (Jesus) or someone else that says something different that rebukes the Savoir,,
"Proceeded Cautiously"!? Anyone studying this, knows it was profligate. You make it sound as if All 3 women backed Polygamy when it 's Wells. The Church had all its escheated property returned but Polygamy was practiced well into 1915 before going more underground. (Literally, I posted Mormon Polygamy caves in the Grand Canyon).Smith admitted it before congress. The FLDS doesn't recognize the LDS Hierarchy as the authority to bestow polygamy. Polygamy is from the hierarchy alone.
Wasn't the practice of plural marriage abandoned over the US government's resistance to grant Utah statehood because of the wide spread practice? After all, President Cleveland issued a statehood proclamation for Utah in 1896, six years after the church declared plural marriage a no-no.
(It would seem the dropping of polygamy by the LDS church is more political than that of a religious awakening or revelation?)
Finally, why in your opinion did god only command polygamy for a time (your belief stated in the video)? Curious to know why you think god changed his mind?
Why do you struggle to understand the practice of plural marriage when your church's founder was really so darn good at it. It would seem very much a foundation to the LDS doctrine ... why not just embrace it?
I mean, what's good enough for J. Smith should be good enough for you?
The mainstream LDS church believes in SPIRITUAL POLYGAMY! This is polygamy for Heaven! Many mormon leaders and men of today have done this! If a mormon man is sealed and the wife dies first he may be resealed and the belief is both the women for HEAVEN! Look it up! Plus all the polygamy of the past together forever. huh?
*PRACTICE polygamy no, believe it will commence again for heaven? oh ya! YUK!
This video is just another lame attempt to show that Mormons are just like Christians in their view of polygamist fundamentalist Mormons.
What he didn't mention is that D&C 132:4 clearly states in black and white that celestial marriage (which is temple marriage and polygamy, not one or the other) is a "nw and everlasting covenant."
Since Mormonism begs to be taken at face value, the layman who reads this assumes it's true, rather than meaning only 47 years.
This video is INSANE! Joseph Smith was reluctant to practice polygamy, but did it anyway because it was God's will? Believingldsmormon is SO brainwashed. Any RATIONAL person can CLEARLY see that Joseph Smith was ONE HORNY MOTHERFUCKER!!! He STILL has the sheeple fooled!!! LOL!!!
The biggest problem here is not about Polygamy, but that Mormons reject that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, as He walked on the earth. That is why the LDS are a cult. Denying the Diety of Jesus Christ , that He is God, is an unfortunate quality of the Anti-Christ. Also, what's up with the planet Kolob?
The LDS Mormon Church believes in Polygamy and continues it in the LDS Temples today with pre arranged Polygamous marriages/sealings, where a widowed Mormon man can seal his next earthly wife ready for his own polygamy in the next life, denied to him on earth because of the law.
A widowed mormon woman who remarries is FORBIDDEN to 'seal' any next earthly husbands in the same way.
John Taylor the 3rd President of the Mormon Church supposedly had a revelation that polygamy should and will continue forever. This is the basis for the fundamentalist's claims. So according to Mormonism, it's either one or the other.
Personally, I choose neither. The man who initiated this was a con man. Furthermore, God didn't command anyone to take up polygamy. Abraham's wife suggested it as she was old. God still worked his will with Sarah getting pregnant.
There were two schisms in Mormonism; the first was over control of the church after the murder of JS and the second over the church's renouncement of polygamy.
of all the religions in this world the wackiest of all is mormonism...why would god command a small select group to practice polygamy for only a few short decades? after reading about mormonism for many years, it is obviious that the flds kooks are actually practicing true mormonism while the mainstream lds church in its desperate efforts to appear as mainstream christians, have turned their backs on the "everlasting" principles taught by joseph smith and bringham young....real young!!
Polygamy isn't just Polygamy, just as JS annunciation of Mormonism as "the truth", he Simultaneously called all non mormon worship anathema. So his P' Rev Imultaneously nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts. It defines "innocent blood" (this will play a role in the Mountain Meadows Massacre) and it threatens his wife with murder. And more. It stands unaltered! you can't say that of the BofM or D&C. The document is in hibernation and is viral. Polygamy was/is practiced past 1915.
Racism & polygamy - neither of which were either revelation or repentance, were but outward conformity to society's demands for standards of decency! Blacks were finally permitted to the priesthood & temple because of pressure from the civil rights movement & notice that LDS failure of compliance would result in tax exempt status being revoked. Re polygamy, Utah was not allowed statehood unless the LDS church agreed to cease its sexual immorality. Only 30 yrs. ago were blacks accepted as equal!
Joseph Smith entered polygamy reluctantly? he married other living mens wives making those woman polyandrous, one woman with more than one husband. That hardly seems reluctant. Smith married over 20 women while alive
Even though Polygamy was officially ended in 1890, Mormon leaders continued to solemize and enter into Plural Marriages all the way up to 1905. The presidents of the church all the way up to 1945 had multiple wives as well as all other polygamists in the church who were able to keep existing families together. 7 out of 16 LDS church Prophets were polygamists. This guy misrepresents and dilutes the truth. He is a liar.
Given Smith's prophetic record, I don't know why you'd even want to claim him as a prophet. He hasn't been right even once.
And the church has distanced itself from most of Brigham Young's teachings, specifically those about polygamy, Adam being God and Jesus being his son, and his apparent fondness for brothers and sisters marrying.
No contradictions? You need to read more of your own history.
The basis for this video is a fundamental misunderstanding of the history of the church.
Polygamy was renounced under duress of the Edmunds-Tucker Act when faced with imprisonment and loss of property, not to mention the fact that the Utah Territiories would not attain statehood as long as they practiced polygamy.
Uneducated? You folks need to get that notion out of your heads. If you're ever read any of JS's handwritten letters, it's pretty obvious that he's not as uneducated as you'd have us believe. He was actually fairly intelligent and we know he had a vivid imagination.
That's the $64,000 question, isn't it? The BOM clearly states at many points that God is the same "from eternity to eternity," and we know that the prophets speak as from God, but he was either lying in the BOM, has ADD, or the entire thing is a sham.
not really a 64,000 question especially since scripture tells us that Jesus is our only and last living prophet. . There is enough evidence to show that the BOM is a sham as you put it.
The $64,000 is froma game show, only used to illustrate that it's an important matter.
But the whole of your position is correct. Jesus is the last, final, and ultimate sacrifice and the only thing we need to get to Heaven. It's almost painfully simple, isn't it?
It is an established legal fact G.F. Smith and contemporaries practiced polygamy and were in court over the issue in 1915. Also, a guy named Smoot...... I use, in part, R.N. Baskin, Prosecutor
>great short vid. im sure u know of this scripture and its context but i think it could be great to add in ur next vid about this. **Jacob 2: 24, 30** this chapter is clear in stating how wrong it is in the sight of God to commit whoredoms and adultury polygamy etc EXCEPT IN ISOLATED INCIDENCES WHEN HE COMMANDS IT TO RAISE UP SEED, AND FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES. why did prophets in the bible practice it & again today? only God fully knows. i too trust in living prophets & know them to speak truth
haha, you only say CULT cause it sounds all cool and tough. have you ever seen or learned about what those types of cults your are referring to are about? its wrong, i know... but clearly you haven't entered our churches to get to know how we function and the faith in Christ of our members. i am not sure of course but i'd guess u just spit out fallacies on the internet and to members of Christs' church..... come have a visit and feel and know of God's eternal love in our meetings.
GlycoBOY, my whole family left the cult after more than 70 years on it..so do not come here saying we never entered the church because I was raised inside the LDS Mormon cult churches. The internet is killing the Mormonism and helping people to get out of there running...Do your research, do not let the leaders brainwash you...YOU ARE PRAYING TO A DIFFERENT GOD AND JESUS...get out of there!
Save it you lying mormon all mormons lie, way too many researchers throughout the decades found solid enough evidence to prove that mormonism is satanic, you people can lie and lie and lie but e.g. when a dectective has evidence that a murderer killed people, that murderer is wasting his time lying about it and trying to say that he didnt do it when the evidence is right there
open up the book of mormon and read: **Jacob 2: 24, 30** this chapter is clear in stating how wrong it is in the sight of God to commit whoredoms and adultury polygamy etc EXCEPT IN ISOLATED INCIDENCES WHEN HE COMMANDS IT TO RAISE UP SEED, AND FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES. why did prophets in the bible practice it & again today? only God fully knows. i too trust in living prophets & know them to speak truth. your hatred can turn to love in ernest prayer and lowering your pride.. i wish you well
You don't sit there and tell me to pick up some blasphemous piece of shit book of mormon to read you satanic mormon.. thousands of researchers throughout the decades already found solid enough evidence to prove that mormonism is satanic so go hail your filthy mormon prophet of satan joseph smith
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You mormon assholes have the monopoly on vulgar especially by the way you blasphemize Jesus Christ and put some scumbag mormon prophet of satan joseph smith above Christ
I think that may be one of the most hypocritical statements I have seen. one one hand you are speaking with vulgar language, and on the other hand 'monopoly on the vulgar'. that is a classic respone.
it was Joseph Smith himself who stated he was 'just a man', and that the church is built on the foundation of Christ.
perhaps you should actually study the tenants of the religion.
lastly you show no true belief in Christ, or you would be unable to make the statements you do.
@solowookie Just because ''officially'' there no connection, the LDS church is based on absolute bullhit...NOT ONE THREAD OF EVIDENCE EXCISTS, THE WHOLE DEAL IS MADE UP. THERE ARE NO TRUE WITNESSESS. ALL THESE SO CALLED WITNESSESS WERE ALLOWED TO WITTNESS WERE WOODEN BOARDS COVERED WITH CLOTH THAT WERE TOLD TO BE GOLDEN PLATES. BESIDES, THERE IS A LOT OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THE DENOUNCES THE ENTIRE NONSENSE FOR THE SHIT THAT IS...DRIPPING OUT OF THE ASS OF JOSEPH PEDOPHILE SMITH!!!!
@NathaliaArroyo wodden boards covered with cloth? and you think we are good at story telling. I have some swamp land I would like to sell you. even those that left the church went to great length to make sure supported their testimonies of the BofM. now in a world where all the these lies were contrived and such damage done, and when so many of those returned to the church renouncing those lies, why would those men do that?
I'm told the church is the only correct one on the face of earth, has the only correct understanding of the Godhead, and is a restoration based on the revelations of JS.
I only use Mormon standards as laid out by the standard works, accepted texts, and words of the prophets and apostles.
Open teh book of mormon to know what was going on on joseph smith's own mind...its all his ideas...Its a book full of errors, mistakes, confusion. Not a good book.
If you had bothered to read the Book for yourself with an open mind, which you obviously have not, you would find that there are no errors, contradictions, mistakes, or confusing statements made. The Book of Mormon is the Word of God. It testifies of the divinity of Jesus Christ, the son of God. You will not find any of Joseph Smith's "ideas" in the Book at all. It is an ancient record of people who lived on the American continent many years ago.
The Devil was once an Angel of high standing in heaven. But grew jealous of Jesus, since Jesus is Gods son and is in the highest position of all angels. It was this envy that caused this angel to become the Devil. God made everything perfect but gave everyone freedom of choice. Because he wants us to worship him because of wanting to, not having to.
Hmm sounds so much like how the mormons are to the Catholics, satan and mormons do indeed go hand in hand
Hi MWayneW, I love to share how I see polygamy and how God prepare me to this princepal. Its 31 December and my houshold dements my full atention. So in the new year I will mail to you on your account if you don't mind. I have to prepair becous my Englisch is bad, I am Duch. So the best wishes for you and your family in 2009.
not Wilford Woodruff and what Wilford had was one heck of a bad dream, excelling only that of Dicken's Scrooge. The proposition that the dream was of God was sustained by the few able
to attend conference--putting it on the level
of the Word of Wisdom--it was a ratified Word of Wisdom from God, as the Salt Lake saints saw it at that time. It was not incompatible
We still believe in polygamy, we do seal more than 1 wife to a man. My grandfhater has be sealt to 3 of his wifes. Polygamy is already in the church becous God promist to bring polygamy back in the church. So with this anser I think efrebody need to be prepaer and better start thinking polygamous.
There are yust not enough good and righges man on eart. I love to live plural mariage, even in secred. Sorry my spelling is bad I am not englisch speaking. God bless
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints practices polygamous marriage sealings in their temples. A mormon widowed man can marry for eternal polygamy his next earthly wife. A mormon widowed woman CANNOT do that. She can only be marriage sealed to one man, yet a Mormon man has no such restriction. Polygamy is a major belief of the LDS and only the LAW brought a halt to it.
It all started with Joseph. Oliver Cowdry talked about Josephs affair with Fanny Alger "before the D&C 132 revelation" "It was a dirty, nasty, filthy affair".
The original commandment given by Joseph Smith > Verily I say unto you that the wisdom of man in his fallen state, knoweth not the purposes and the privileges of my holy priesthood, but ye shall know when ye receive a fulness by reason of the anointing: For it is my will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity may become white, delightsome and Just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles.
This racism was not uncommon in the 1830s. Polygamy was against the law and has never changed. There were never more women than men. The church has also claimed that the commandment was needed to populate the church. How foolish! The remaining mormon sects are following Josephs original teachings, which is a commandment of MAN, not God.
The LDS church still practices Polygamous sealings in the Temple today. Widowed Mormon men marry aditional earthly wives and seal them polygamously in the temple.Widowed mormon women on the other hand cannot marry and seal polygamously additional earthly husbands, effectively commiting Adultery until they reunite with their original eternal partner.
Abraham was dinging his wifes hand maiden, legal under law of inheritance,to provide heir. This was not Gods law. Abe's reward for dinging Hagar was CIRCUMCISION. His thumping Hagar was all wrong and created problems. So did Solomons Polygamy. The Polygamy Revelation is "suspended" but the word is meaningless, the Mormon Hierarchy did (and does) practice it. It is intact and waiting expression. it is viral. The BofM has 4000+changes. Polygamy will be practiced by "Main Stream" Mormons soon
Yup. Google "D. Michael Quinn and post-manifesto polygamy." This paper shows how the 1st manifesto was a hoax to get the gov't of the Church's back. Leaders including the 12 continued to approve/perform plural marriages until 1904 (Smoot hearings).
Such deception/continuing disingenuousness on the topic is why many don't what LDS inc. says about anything.
Good LDS polygamy books :
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith - Compton
They were practicing it after 1913.RN Baskin, "Reminisence of Early Utah" he prosecuted JD Lee. And in "Kawiches Gold Mine",1913, Josiah Gibbs shows us POLYGAMY Caves in the Grand Canyon Area. I posted some Pics of this scarce book. (the text is tuff to read;blame youtube)
You've forgotten to mention some Mormon men are sealed to 2nd wife after the death of the first w/ the intent of being married to both in the next life. This comply with the "law of the land" while still practicing this deeply held and somewhat underground belief in polygamy. Women can't be sealed to more than 1 man w/o a Temple Divorce.
Current LDS Apostles Dahlin H. Oaks and Russell M. Nelson were sealed to 2nd wives following the death of the first. Former prophet Harold B. Lee was as well.
FLDS is very much the mormonism practiced during B. Young's time. Let's not forget that polygamy does exist in the CK. It can be reinstated at any time some President of LDS decides he wants to.
J. Smith, or "Horny Joe" introduced it to try to legitimize his perpetual quest for tail. He lied about doing it. He threated his poor wife about it.
Struggle with it? Ockham's razor indicates that Smith was a louse and a dirty conman.
Polygamy is forbidden by Mormon scripture itself unless it is explicitly commanded by God (see Book of Mormon : Jacob 2). Polygamy never was a requirement for Sainthood. This is proven because only 20 percent of Mormons practiced it during the peak of polygamy in Utah. There wasn't a ban in the Revelations from God, rather: God ceased to give the command. The term "ban" is used loosly rather, it means that God had not commanded it further.
Not to offend but it's a struggle cuz I suspect you are trying reconcile polygamy while keeping a certain image of JS. The truth is that J. Smith was not quite the white knight the church makes out. Also IMO polygamy is inconsistent with a loving God.
"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." So consider for a second that JS was a fallible man who created a 'doctrine' to suit his needs. Makes sense to me.
Also the 20-30 percent proves nothing. For men to have multiple wives you need many, many women. With a 50/50 male/female split only so many guys got the wives (and the eternal glory that came along with it) . You guessed it. The top leaders got the women. You regular joe was lucky to find one wife with guys like BY (56) and Heber Kimball (40+/-). around
Mormon Polygamy involves Polyandry. Something not often spoken of.Not even on the Polygamy revelation. JD Lee speaks of Polygamy in 1838. He writes of a wife of his that also had a living husband. Mormon Polygamy is dangerous and seeks expression.
The answer to that is in the vault. Hyrum and Emma went to
Governor Ford to ask protection for Joseph who would be kept in the debtors' prison. Joseph was staying on the other side of the river while his bodyguard built Emma and Joseph a winter cabin upriver.
Hyrum plead with his bother, fearing the sack o the city
afterwards if he could not be produced. ''A Prophet hath no honor i his own country.'' Never morso than on that night. [Guymon Family History, Joseph Anderson, BYU, History Dept]
Willford Woodruff lay before the Tabernacle congregation the probable consequences of continuing the practice. Many Men in favor were in prison, others were in hiding. Many left the country in hope of living the Principal legally. A 1904 second manifesto broadened the ban to include members outside of the country. No revelation was ever Men were not forced to abandon existing families.
A woman married at 20 in 1904 lived in polygamous marriages as late as 1994 within the LDS Church.
To liken your disobedience & Christian monogamy as both being examples of Christians rejecting earlier teaching is breathtaking. No Church since Christ has practised polygamy and yet you state that we were abandoning a teaching in the same way that mormons did a mere 50 years after a 'prophet' was ordered to practice it, this is mindblowingly brave. It will persuade no-one but other mormons.Logic stretching is necessary to you but is a constant & fascinating feature of the LDS to any outsider.
This was an eternal command (observed enthusiastically by Joseph himself who took the wives and young daughters of his own followers!) like the ban on marrying blacks (blood atonement matter) or banning blacks from the priesthood. The only thing eternal about the LDS appears to be its eternal setting aside of its own revelations. The eternal temple endowment ceremonies were apparently changed after a survey!! I predict that the handshakes will soon go the same way. You stand on shifting sands.
I will never bash the "Clean Cut Lads on Bikes" but to think that Joseph Smith heard God wrong the first time when he was told polygamy was good and then recant his story by saying polygamy was bad would mean that either he or God was wrong. Saying a fundamentalist Mormon is not a real Mormon would be like saying that fundamental Muslims are not real Muslims and that fundamental Baptist' are not real Baptist.
Thanks for the response. I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. It's not as simple as saying Joseph said God told him to practice polygamy, and then he went out and mistakenly did it. It was done at great personal cost. If he was a lecher, much easier to just go out and cheat rather than make it a marriage and accepted by the Church.
Second, FLDS have as much right to claim the title Mormon as LDS do, LDS just want to make there is no confusion. Thanks
I know for a fact that when nobody is looking the young bike missionaries have secret bike parties where they crash their bikes doing stunts, jumping around, wheelies, going down stairs and judging from the condition of some of their bikes I know these lads tend to catch a little air and I can appreciate that. Only the local police are as hard on their bikes and judging from the condition of their bikes I suspect they have little bike parties of their own.
You're right, no, there is no connection. FDLS are real Mormons, and LDS are phonies.
And the practice was ended by the revelation that the U.S. congress wasn't going to let the state of Utah into the union with your wierd colts dispicable polygamy practice; that's the one and only reason they canged it.
The real Mormons kept practicing their faith, and the LDS sold out for political expiedency.
So can you understand why I, and others, are totally confused with your laws in the US which allow 'cults' like this to exist. Can you please also explain why your lawmakers seem to do nothing to stop abuse within cults until it is too late? I think that most in your country are just too preoccupied with your own lives and als just too plain ignorant of the facts. AND, the US wants to set a moral example!!! Get your own house in order please!!!!
To put it simply; allowing 'cults' like this calls into question the judgement of you and other 'ordinary' folk in the US. How-therefore-can the rest of the World take you seriously when you pontificate about other religions which you obviously know nothing about - Islam for example. Please set your own 'screwed up' house in order first and stop these child abuses. Otherwise, just keep your stupid mouths shut and continue to allow these people to rape kids-making you accessories to paedophilia.
Bacaca88, we have a constitutional right to religion and freedom of association. So you can't tell people that they can't practice a faith or be weird.
They used to bust up polygamy colts and jail the men until a bust about 40 years ago where the polygamist waited for the police to come in the town square and sang songs as they were arrested. This was seen on t.v. and it turned the tied against busting them up cause people saw it as breaking up families who weren't hurting anybody.
To put it plainly to you constitutionalists; you and your country are totally fucked up even debating this issue. You are sick and these people doing these things need to be locked up. Polygamy and child abuse cannot be 'just' explained away by your fucked up constitution. Get a life please.
Let's keep it civil, please. I agree, those that are abusing, sexually, mentally, physically boys and girls need to be locked up. No one arguing that that is okay, or that the constitution allows it.
Personally, I am disgusted with you. Child abuse by any religion, individual or whatever cannot be explained by you or anyone. However, it seems like this has been accepted in the US by some and covered up by many. I watched coverage of the 'mothers' of the abused on CNN and think that they-like most of the US-are totally fucked up. You live in a very sick, sad place. And, you want to preach morality to the rest of the world??? Please set your own house in order first.
Hagar was a pilagesh not a ishet therefore she never retained the actual status of wife. the pilagesh institution is not actual marriage. what the FLDS does is actual polygamous marriage which is not biblical
"Is there a connection between Fundamentalist LDS groups ... and the LDS Church?" The current edition of the D&C STILL contains section 132. It has been neither removed nor revised, and is still considered scripture. Is THAT not a CONNECTION?
The modern LDS church does not deny that polygamy was once practiced, even practiced righteously through revelation, as outlined in the D&C. But just as the law of consecration, which is revealed in the D&C, was rescinded later, so was polygamy. Doesn't mean it wasn't true or it should be buried and ignored, any more than Christians should bury the practice of the Law of Moses in the OT.
Compliments on the overall accuracy of your video. I am in full agreement with windowwasher2. Current LDS pick and choose which parts of their heritage to retain. The 1890 manifesto was not considered a "revelation" by the GA's at that time, hence post-ma
"Please don´t read the Book of Mormon and don´t pray for it´s truthfulness" An antimormon.
dorisfenella 4 months ago
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Fundamentalist are living their lives more closely to what Joseph Smith and the early prophets taught. They, in a sense, are more devoted to their "prophet", Joseph Smith. The early founders of the church said that for a man to become a god, he must practice polygamy. Only those who enter in the highest glory are those who are practicing it. So did the mormon prophets lie about this? or are the mainstream mormons not doing what they are supposed to?
snowbum121 4 months ago
Why was LDS General Authority Councilor Steven Snow the FLDS/Colorado Attorney in Snow & Nuffer for over a decade, if in deed the FLDS were to be shunned and excommunicated? Shunned would include, not taking FLDS blood money wouldn't it?
fincenMIB 6 months ago
Mormons operate the way an effective political campaign does. They demonize their opponents. Look at JackNimble61 and how all he can say is that those who bring history and truth to light are "DECIEVERS OF THE FIRST ORDER!" Whatever the f&%k that means? Their tactic is to label any and all information that does not support belief in the church as being from Satan. Its very blatant. It fills its members with hate for those that they label "anti-mormons". I'm not anti. The truth is its BS.
andrewjackson325 7 months ago
The only ones being deceptive are the leaders of the Mormon faith. Being myself raised LDS and even serving an LDS mission, I realize as an educated adult, that the church only exists because it has a very effective marketing, sales, and censorship system down. The church discourages members to read, see or hear any evidence that the origins of the organization are based upon lies and fraud. Archeological, historical, and DNA evidence all show the Book of Mormon is fictitious.
andrewjackson325 7 months ago
Polygamy was practiced long after 1890. Abraham Canon committed suicide after Joseph F Smith "counsuled" him into it and it was discovered. Smoot was a polygamist and J. F. Smith also gave testimony in congress that he was a polygamist and had married after 1890. He counsuled many into it as did others in the Hierarchy.
IExposeMormonism 8 months ago
I'm not here to argue or start anything but wasn't or doesn't it state that polygamy is an eternal commandment? To me that means its a commandment that MUST always be practiced !!! If it was just for a short time shouldn't it state that? like D&C 101:4 stated 1 man and 1 wife (oh I forgot that was taken out) my bad!!!
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 8 months ago
@Revelationthree20 Wilford Woodruff VIOLATED his own declaration banning polygamy of 1890 by marrying Mary Mountford in 1898.
genexrollins 8 months ago
@genexrollins Here, Here, and all the Hierarchy was like that. Once the US Fed Gov't returned the forfeited Mormon Church property (c 1895) the Hierarchy went right back to their lying colluding ways.
IExposeMormonism 8 months ago
@Revelationthree20 There's no reason for D&C 132 to be removed. You don't ask for the removal of Mosaic law such as stoning for certain offenses. And even if the LDS do practice polygamy throughout the eternities, what concern is it of yours? You don't have to practice it.
JackNimble61 10 months ago
@JackNimble61 yeah who cares about women stupid enough to share their man with other women..WOW..low self esteem or what?if it was the other way around...would you be okay sleeping in a house and your wife is in teh rooom with another man and thats supposed to be OKAY?
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
@DrRocksotheClown You either have no idea about what you're talking about or you're purposely being dishonest. I say the former because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt unlike what you do for us.
Most people that do not try to understand the concept of celestial marriage don't understand the concept of eternal family either. Too bad.
JackNimble61 8 months ago
@JackNimble61 Many "revelations" of JSmith and other have been removed and or heavily redacted. Removing D&C 132 would be a good step. Then I wouldn't "feel" the threat of JSmith saying it "nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts".
IExposeMormonism 8 months ago
@IExposeMormonism The Joseph Smith Papers give a full accounting of Joseph's writings and revelations. There is nothing hidden. You are known throughout the LDS youtube community for a deceiver and militant anti-Mormon. You are and your opinions are not trusted here.
JackNimble61 8 months ago
@JackNimble61 I'm quoting Mormon sources for Polygamy being practiced well after 1890. And thanks for the compliment. It's good to know people are listening. The truth will set you free. And the truth is Jesus and his dad are not polytheistic polygamists. But Mormonism is. Light!
IExposeMormonism 8 months ago
@IExposeMormonism You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and introduced itself and proved itself to be the truth. You are a deceiver of the FIRST ORDER.
JackNimble61 7 months ago
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@JackNimble61 "You wouldn't know the truth if it came up & introduced itself & proved itself to be the truth."
- wow thats the very same relationship that MORmON ASSpostHOLES have with Jesus Christ !
genexrollins 7 months ago
@JackNimble61 I posted "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", 1905, J. F Smith. You might want to read it. I am quoting Frank Cannon on Abraham Cannon and J. F. Smith. "Under The Prophet in Utah", 1911. Frank has a lot to say and he is no Anti Mormon. Have you had a taste of Adam=God Doctrine? yummmy!
IExposeMormonism 7 months ago
@IExposeMormonism There is nothing you have to offer, as the deceiver you are, that is relevant to Christ's church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
JackNimble61 7 months ago
the only thing you have demonstrated is MORmONS unlimited willingness to LIE & DECEIVE (even & especially themselves) on this matter of EVIL that runs right through the middle of the MORmON religion! you are a sickening LIAR & an instrument of Satan!
tonymobius 11 months ago
Jeff's and co are the true Mormons. They adhere to All the original tenets of Abraham. And it's a "suspended" document. Not another revelation canceling the D&C132. Joseph F Smith "counseled" Adam Cannon into Polygamy, c1895. Cannon was discovered. This endangered the LDS church which had just received back from the Fed Gov't all of the LDS property forfeited earlier. Did you know this? Cannon committed suicide rather than let the LDS hierarchy/church suffer. For the hypocrisy.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
polygamy is one of the fruits of Joseph Smith. The LDS Church still practises polygamy posthumously. A priesthood holder can be sealed to more than one woman if the first wife is dead. An LDS woman can not be sealed to another man is she is sealed to a husband that is dead. Same rule for civil divorce. Many LDS men are sealed to more than one wife even today.
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 So if its false why do you care? Polygamy has been around since old testament times. Many parts of the world practiced it throughout ages of time. If you don't believe you can be sealed... what does it matter?
faanunu 1 year ago
@faanunu It matters because I have raised my children in this faith and we live in America and i feel that polygamy is not out of the Church's blood and may rear it's ugly head again in future. I don't trust the leadership frankly. if Joseph Smith could justify marrying other men's wives then who is to say that my kids might be exposed to that kind of abuse of power in future. My wife and I are sealed to each other thank you very much
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999,
I'm not even Mormon, but for you to say you're a Mormon, yet "don't trust the leadership," is complete and utter foolishness. Haven't you read your own Doctrine and Covenants? It says at the very beginning of the manifesto that God will never allow the president of the LDS church to lead its members astray.
If you can't trust your own scriptures, let alone your leaders, what is your faith built upon? Sand.
I would recommend finding a faith built upon a rock.
05lowell05 1 year ago
@rd1999,
Ah, I thought your name looked familiar. I just went to your channel and remembered who your were.
If you don't remember me, I'm the one that used to be a supporter of polygamy before leaving the church. You addressed me in a rather rude manner, stating that people like me "scare the hell" out of you, and that I was like a "dog turning back to its vomit."
Face it, friend. You're not a true Mormon; you deny foundational LDS doctrines.
Why don't you just leave the church?
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 I'm just not a sheep my friend, I think for myself. I know the doctrine, I just don't agree with all of it and the more members I speak to the more I find they don't agree with these former teachings either. I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Most members in our local ward know where I stand and have no complex about holding a temple recommend either.
Do I understand that you left the Church?
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999,
Yes, I left the church.
I just can't understand how you could be part of a church which you know teachings false doctrines.
Are these men truly prophets, seers, and revelators if they continually lead the sons of men astray? Can you honestly hold your head up high when you have to say, "Yes, my prophet was a polygamist, he stole the wives of others, and he was a liar, but I trust my eternal salvation to the things he taught."
It simply doesn't make sense to me.
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 I agree with you and can understand why you left. For me...I have to come to an answer to explain the Book of Mormon before I can walk away from it. Every person said Joesph dictated it out of a hat looking at magic stones. I find that hard to get my head around having read the book and appreciating how complex it is. I also have had several Spiritual experiences that keep me grounded. in the end I have to ask is it really such a bad way to live?
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999,
Yes, but other religious texts, such as the Qur'an for example, are on an entirely different level when compared to the Book of Mormon. It would be far from impossible for Joseph Smith the make up the Book of Mormon, especially with all the rich, educated men he had helping him.
As to the spiritual experiences, I know what you mean. I had incredible "spiritual" experiences while Mormon. I've had them outside the church too; I've concluded that they're just the work of the mind.
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 I think the Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph and the others were scribes. The is no way any of the men involved knew what chiasmus was or the proper interpretations of old Jewish law that were in the Book of Mormon. Even Oliver Cowdery, whom left the church for a time, never ever claimed to have written it, himself, nor did he recant his testimony of it even when doing so could have won him political favor.
JackNimble61 11 months ago
@JackNimble61,
Actually, it would not have brought Oliver Cowdery political favor had he said he helped write the Book of Mormon; it would have exposed him to be, without a doubt, a liar. He would never be trusted in the public eye again.
It would not have been impossible for Joseph Smith to know what chiasmus was, as he had a Hebrew Instructor. All of what you have said is called "faith-promoting rumor." It can all be fully explained logically, but people choose to say it was miraculous.
05lowell05 11 months ago
@05lowell05 Well, stating that he helped write the Book of Mormon WOULD have been a lie since he only helped translate it by being a scribe. He attempted to translate but could not. He wasn't trusted because he was involved with the Mormons and was trying to gain political office. Recanting and saying that the story was all a farce would have gained him political allies.
Joseph's instructor came years after the Book of Mormon was published.
JackNimble61 11 months ago
@JackNimble61,
Part One:
Recanting would have only proved without a doubt that he had a history of lying. It would have in no way helped him. Additionally, Oliver Cowdery didn't leave the church, he was excommunicated. He was among those called the "dissenters." It is also interesting to note that Martin Harris once admitted to a reporter that he didn't actually see the golden plates, he just felt moved by the spirit "much like the good Methodist."
05lowell05 11 months ago
@05lowell05 Cowdery tried to resign from the church but was ex'ed at a church court he chose not to attend. Martin Harris did not recant his testimony.
JackNimble61 11 months ago
@05lowell05,
Moreover, in any case, Joseph Smith wouldn't have needed their help. All he did was say words and they wrote them down. It is also noteworthy that the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon contains many English errors and "farm-boy slang," further proving it was the work of man.
Have you ever read an 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon?
05lowell05 11 months ago
@05lowell05 The editing that was done to the 1830 edition was practically all grammatical such as punctuation and such. And yes, I have. In fact I just gave a copy to one of my dearest friends.
JackNimble61 11 months ago
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@rd1999 "in the end I have to ask is it really such a bad way to live?"
i used to think that way as well. at the end of the day, it comes down to whether or not you have the integrity (or lack thereof) to fool not just just others, but more importantly yourself. If you have doubts, you owe it to yourself to know the truth.
JayBrew391 11 months ago
its about a little less than 500 years between New Testament and Old Testament. Its now over 2000 years later. whens God sposed to speak to us agian? i think its been quite past over due.
Cryolyptic 1 year ago
Who decided polygamy was bad. Programming did. As people were programmed the things they believe through television and such. 100 years ago, gay marriage was a joke. Now there are people fighting for it. Whats wrong with gay marriage? Whats wrong with Polygamy? Whats wrong with polytheism? Who even said there has to be only 1 god? You were all PROGRAMMED.
Cryolyptic 1 year ago
You struggle to understand why god commanded Joseph Smith to practice polygamy? How about a dose of reality, It never was commanded and Joseph was just a pervert and a fraud. There was no reason for polygamy, at all
zatokk 1 year ago
blow me Mormon fag liar....I don't like grown men who are idiots and liars
Balla1965 1 year ago
Polygamy was always against US laws, and by the way was always against Mexico and Canada laws. Mormons today are brainwashed to believe polygamy stopped because the law changed when that is blatantly false. Anyone interested in the truth can easily research the truth and realize this argument is groundless.
Balla1965 1 year ago
1 Timothy 3:2, 12
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach. . . . Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."
Bishops, Deacons, Elders, Pastors virtually all church officials etc are called by Scripture to have one (1) wife and no more ... the contextual message is clear if you want to read the entire passage.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Unfortunately for the LDS church Pologamy is still a central tenent of the original prophecies - to deny that is to deny J Smith Jr.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Am I the only person to notice a trend in Holy men? it seems that men like J Smith, J. Swaggert, D. Koresh, J Bakker, J. Jones and dozens (or 100's) of other self-proclaimed Holy men get into the God business to score more booty - If J Smith was wrong about multiple wives he simply cannot be a Prophet ... The LDS church is trying HARD to get away from the stigmatization but it remains central to fundamental and foundational Mormonism.
hammerogod 1 year ago
What people need to do is read the official declaration of the church. It's found in the doctrine and covenants at the heart of the matter. What most people do is look for
"fringe information" and they find this in quotes made by certain men... some Apostles, some Prophet, in a Journal of Discourses entry here, a Millennial star entry there... commentary of a non-mormon or an ex-mormon who self-interpret what was done by the early church and add their own spin on it.
Fringe thinking won't work.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
This was a foundational doctrine of Moromons.. The FLDS are the true Mormons and hold that belief...A Tiger doesn't change its strips..
xcaper123 2 years ago
I posted Joseph F Smith, 1905, "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy". He says J Smith was killed at Carthage Because of Polygamy. I also posted legal transcript and more showing Polygamy in 1915. I Even Posted "Polygamy Caves in the Grand Canyon"! I would sure like to find them, they have stalagmites and 'tites
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Because Government wouldn't allow it.
HotMeltsICE 2 years ago
@HotMeltsICE
Never forget the Lord's hand in this decision. It had to be a directive given by God. The practice was modified to include those marriage as binding in the Lord. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. A man can take another. The Lord decided to discontinue this and perhaps the saints were faithful in it to the end, which must have been pleasing to him even when they read Jacob chapters 1-2 for themselves, it must have been hard to do it
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
Everlasting covenant of marriage. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. These are your words I believe, and if Marriage is everlasting, meaning continual even after our death on earth, and yet we partake in taking another spouse by vowing and engaging in the everlasting covenant of marriage is this not taking more than one wife, is this not polygamy?
HotMeltsICE 2 years ago
@HotMeltsICE
I don't pretend to know and understand the eternal nature of plural marriage since I personally have not, and hope never to, lost my eternal companion. It is understandable that a man may remarry in a temple and be sealed to another wife so long as this woman is not already sealed. The Lord desires that families be raised with help. If both people involved have become widows or widowers and they are already sealed to their deceased spouses, it is not necessary to seal again.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
So youre saying a man, who has also lost his eternal spouse whom he was sealed to for eternity, may remarry in a temple and be sealed to another wife so long as this woman is not already sealed. Hearing this, what I dont understand is if man has a soul, that soul being immortal, and if marriage is eternal (something I do not believe), how would it be possible to re-marry and not be taking on another spouse since you claim marriage is eternal. It is polygamy in the full since of the word.
HotMeltsICE 2 years ago
@HotMeltsICE
I never said it wasn't plural marriage. The discontinuing the temporal practice of it this did not mean we denounce the practice.
You seem to want answers and you pose good questions and for this, I thank you. You actually have a brain and are able to use it. (which says a lot since most of the yahoo's don't really intend to hear me out bc they like to argue) mormontempleceremonydotnet may have additional answers for you and its better that you go to the source on this one.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
If you trully believed Joseph Smith was a prophet why would he teach doctrine that would evantually be abandoned. How could a Church that is led continuously by inspired prophets teach doctrines that are later discarded?
HotMeltsICE 2 years ago
@HotMeltsICE
When the Lord says, "Do this." we do it.
When the Lord says, "Stop." Then we stop.
It isn't any harder than this to gather.
It did not effect the new and everlasting covenant of marriage... but since the Lord revealed that we believe in being subject to the laws of the Land. Another article of faith suggest that we believe in what the Lord has revealed, what he does now reveal and that he will yet reveal things to us. The Lord can offer up new revelation on the matter.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Everlasting covenant of marriage. Anyone who marries in a temple now a days could do so again if the wife passes away. These are your words I believe, and if Marriage is everlasting, meaning continual even after our death on earth, and yet we partake in taking another spouse by vowing and engaging in the everlasting covenant of marriage is this not taking more than one wife, is this not polygamy?
HotMeltsICE 2 years ago
The problem moron is that "the Lord" isn't saying shit its the morons you follow who have changed just about every taught doctrine by its founder JS. WHy not join reality and read the Journal of Discourses or go fuck yourself and make a video of that you fucking liar! Polygamy started not in Utah but started with JS who never came to Utah wake the fuck up and at leas look at the LDS Ancestory File for God sake you brainwashed idiot
Balla1965 2 years ago
What makes you think that we don't know our own history? We know our history but we know it free from the spin and commentary made by opponents of the church both outside and apostate. As far as make a video about it? As far as making a video? I probably should and I do make home made material. I first got online because there seemed to be a virtual monopoly on what was being said about Mormons and it was based on hearsay and quoting things written by Mormons but doing so out of context.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
@THELDSLIFE "Outside and Apostate" ... ? Mormon arrogance is off scale ... I know for a fact that all Mormons MUST be doing 1 of 2 things --> #1~ Ignoring the history of J Smith and the LDS church or #2 ~ Willfully beliving a lie to suit a selfish need ... if you ,as you say, know the history of your "Church" and your "Prophet" and continue on the path you are on then I suppose you will only have the option of shuddering in bitter tears before the Throne of Christ when the time comes.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod - When is our history ever interpreted by the scorned or the misinformed? I've heard the same passages of Church history quoted but it's easier to make someone's point seem believable if they omit who wrote that part, when it was written and what relevance it actually has to the events.
In other words, folks will suggest that Joseph Smith shows lack of humility for one thing written when he was not the author of the comment or quote.
I read church history... just not with your spin.
THELDSLIFE 1 year ago
@Balla1965 The profanity destroyed your argument ... just sayin'
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Yeah I think its far better to pat Mormons on the back and be nice and friendly. That has sure accomplished a lot for Christianity hasn't it since Mormons are building more temples and buildings then ever before not to mention a 5 billion dollar mall. Coddling Mormons keeps them Mormon. They need a significant emotional event and some one to call them out as the dumb assed brainwashed sick bastards they are.
Balla1965 1 year ago
I think you faiiled to mention that until 1945 the LDS Church was led by a polygamous leadership. Grant, the prophet himself was a polygamist which you can confirm on your LDS ancestory search site. You presented the faithful version of polygamy accepted today however also stated it took place in Utah. Use the same site mentioned above to check how many wives JS had and he did not come to Utah. You are also misinformed about excommunication. Only those who were exposed for polygamy were ex'd
Balla1965 2 years ago
@Balla1965
If my wife should die, I could marry again in the temple. There is no bearing on whether I could marry again or not. I could marry a second wife there just the same. You'll have to read the official declaration to understand the reasons why aren't only limited to, "Just because it's against the law now."
The Lord giveth... the Lord taketh away is true for us just as it is for all christendom.
In a sense, it hasn't been squelched from the earth. It exists in a "lawful form"
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
@THELDSLIFE First of all I'm not impressed by your dissonance. If you would wake up jack ass and go do some basic research you would realize polygamy was always against the law moron. Second, a make gets a temple clearance not a cancellation to remarry in the temple. I know I've been through it. What that means is your sealed and married to more than one women in eternity. How many plural marriages were performed after the second manifesto? THe answer can easily be found in Moron sources.
Balla1965 1 year ago
@Balla1965 - Aww shucks, Balla. Now I remember why I blocked you months ago. You hold no respect for me and so likewise, I hold none for you.
THELDSLIFE 1 year ago 2
I notice that you forgot to mention that Josph F. Smith was convicted of violating Utah's anti-polygamy laws in 1904, resulting in the Second Manifesto.
This begs the question: if the prophet doesn't have to play by the rules, who do they apply to?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
You are misinformed. Read the LDS handbook of instruction about the belief. They are both sealed equally to the husband. Even for men today. Ballard, Nelson, and others have talked about their spiritual wives.
About Joseph Smith's polygamy.... I have a strong hope that the Savior is the person I read about who lifted children onto his knee and blessed them, not someone who would send an angel with a sword to enforce any intimate relationship, let alone a polygamous relationship.
beachlady78 2 years ago
Is there a connection to Jeffs, etc? The answer is Yes! It wasn't just expressed in Utah it was common to Nauvoo. Joseph F Smith, 1905, "Blood Atonement and the origin of Polygamy" states the cause of JS death at Carthage was Polygamy. He should know...And having my marriages and contracts nullified while simultaneously declaring polygamy for oneself seems, well, over the top. But maybe I'm being selfish. I posted the Polygamy Rev and the JFSmith book.
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Thanks
Correct, Jeff's was just teaching and practicing the true way of Joseph Smith and others. He was following their latter day lies for personal justification. Both are cults.
beachlady78 2 years ago
The reason the FLDS is disowned like a wicked step child isn't because they practice polygamy. No, its for not Obeying the Mormon Hierarchy. Say it again. The Mormon Hierarchy is concerned with power and authority. Non obedient Doctrine lovin' Mormons, no matter how well they practice Joe Smiths Mormonism, are disobedient to the Hierarchy. Soon enough Mormon Polygamy will be legal and all hell will break out again. And the US GOv't will do Nothing to protect your contracts and marriage;its legal
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
, what if someone showed u a bible verse quoted directly from Jesus, this is that verse it is something to read,,
Matthew 22: 24-34, its from Jesus himself, we all know he is absolutely the truth u agree on that ,,,so who do u believe in now,, Emmanuel (Jesus) or someone else that says something different that rebukes the Savoir,,
tnfellow 2 years ago
"Proceeded Cautiously"!? Anyone studying this, knows it was profligate. You make it sound as if All 3 women backed Polygamy when it 's Wells. The Church had all its escheated property returned but Polygamy was practiced well into 1915 before going more underground. (Literally, I posted Mormon Polygamy caves in the Grand Canyon).Smith admitted it before congress. The FLDS doesn't recognize the LDS Hierarchy as the authority to bestow polygamy. Polygamy is from the hierarchy alone.
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Wasn't the practice of plural marriage abandoned over the US government's resistance to grant Utah statehood because of the wide spread practice? After all, President Cleveland issued a statehood proclamation for Utah in 1896, six years after the church declared plural marriage a no-no.
(It would seem the dropping of polygamy by the LDS church is more political than that of a religious awakening or revelation?)
More questions...
has2cats 2 years ago
Finally, why in your opinion did god only command polygamy for a time (your belief stated in the video)? Curious to know why you think god changed his mind?
Why do you struggle to understand the practice of plural marriage when your church's founder was really so darn good at it. It would seem very much a foundation to the LDS doctrine ... why not just embrace it?
I mean, what's good enough for J. Smith should be good enough for you?
has2cats 2 years ago
You are not telling the whole truth are you?
The mainstream LDS church believes in SPIRITUAL POLYGAMY! This is polygamy for Heaven! Many mormon leaders and men of today have done this! If a mormon man is sealed and the wife dies first he may be resealed and the belief is both the women for HEAVEN! Look it up! Plus all the polygamy of the past together forever. huh?
*PRACTICE polygamy no, believe it will commence again for heaven? oh ya! YUK!
beachlady78 2 years ago
The 'spiritual polygamy' doesn't exist anywhere in D&C 132. Celestial marriage was a two-fold approach to exaltation, two sides of the same coin.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
This video is just another lame attempt to show that Mormons are just like Christians in their view of polygamist fundamentalist Mormons.
What he didn't mention is that D&C 132:4 clearly states in black and white that celestial marriage (which is temple marriage and polygamy, not one or the other) is a "nw and everlasting covenant."
Since Mormonism begs to be taken at face value, the layman who reads this assumes it's true, rather than meaning only 47 years.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago 2
Whoreman! Whoreman!! Whoreman!!!
manWhore! Joseph Smith!
Follow your leader. Warren Jeffs is a true Whoreman.
Pretty Catchy huh Join with me....
prosaint3 2 years ago
This video is INSANE! Joseph Smith was reluctant to practice polygamy, but did it anyway because it was God's will? Believingldsmormon is SO brainwashed. Any RATIONAL person can CLEARLY see that Joseph Smith was ONE HORNY MOTHERFUCKER!!! He STILL has the sheeple fooled!!! LOL!!!
lotanddaughters 2 years ago
The biggest problem here is not about Polygamy, but that Mormons reject that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, as He walked on the earth. That is why the LDS are a cult. Denying the Diety of Jesus Christ , that He is God, is an unfortunate quality of the Anti-Christ. Also, what's up with the planet Kolob?
nathaw11 2 years ago
The LDS Mormon Church believes in Polygamy and continues it in the LDS Temples today with pre arranged Polygamous marriages/sealings, where a widowed Mormon man can seal his next earthly wife ready for his own polygamy in the next life, denied to him on earth because of the law.
A widowed mormon woman who remarries is FORBIDDEN to 'seal' any next earthly husbands in the same way.
ElderJoseph 2 years ago
John Taylor the 3rd President of the Mormon Church supposedly had a revelation that polygamy should and will continue forever. This is the basis for the fundamentalist's claims. So according to Mormonism, it's either one or the other.
Personally, I choose neither. The man who initiated this was a con man. Furthermore, God didn't command anyone to take up polygamy. Abraham's wife suggested it as she was old. God still worked his will with Sarah getting pregnant.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
There were two schisms in Mormonism; the first was over control of the church after the murder of JS and the second over the church's renouncement of polygamy.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
of all the religions in this world the wackiest of all is mormonism...why would god command a small select group to practice polygamy for only a few short decades? after reading about mormonism for many years, it is obviious that the flds kooks are actually practicing true mormonism while the mainstream lds church in its desperate efforts to appear as mainstream christians, have turned their backs on the "everlasting" principles taught by joseph smith and bringham young....real young!!
fatimasadrcity 2 years ago
Polygamy isn't just Polygamy, just as JS annunciation of Mormonism as "the truth", he Simultaneously called all non mormon worship anathema. So his P' Rev Imultaneously nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts. It defines "innocent blood" (this will play a role in the Mountain Meadows Massacre) and it threatens his wife with murder. And more. It stands unaltered! you can't say that of the BofM or D&C. The document is in hibernation and is viral. Polygamy was/is practiced past 1915.
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Mormons cannot become a god without practicing polygamy. Read for yourself.
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS of LDS section 132
carnrick 2 years ago
Mormons cannot become a god, period. What kind of crazy magical thinking is this? You're human, deal with it.
stingingnettles 2 years ago
Racism & polygamy - neither of which were either revelation or repentance, were but outward conformity to society's demands for standards of decency! Blacks were finally permitted to the priesthood & temple because of pressure from the civil rights movement & notice that LDS failure of compliance would result in tax exempt status being revoked. Re polygamy, Utah was not allowed statehood unless the LDS church agreed to cease its sexual immorality. Only 30 yrs. ago were blacks accepted as equal!
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
Early Mormons were taught that God, Jesus, and Adam were all polygamists and used those teachings to support their own polygamy.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Joseph Smith entered polygamy reluctantly? he married other living mens wives making those woman polyandrous, one woman with more than one husband. That hardly seems reluctant. Smith married over 20 women while alive
rd1999 2 years ago
Even though Polygamy was officially ended in 1890, Mormon leaders continued to solemize and enter into Plural Marriages all the way up to 1905. The presidents of the church all the way up to 1945 had multiple wives as well as all other polygamists in the church who were able to keep existing families together. 7 out of 16 LDS church Prophets were polygamists. This guy misrepresents and dilutes the truth. He is a liar.
folkhippy 2 years ago
Given Smith's prophetic record, I don't know why you'd even want to claim him as a prophet. He hasn't been right even once.
And the church has distanced itself from most of Brigham Young's teachings, specifically those about polygamy, Adam being God and Jesus being his son, and his apparent fondness for brothers and sisters marrying.
No contradictions? You need to read more of your own history.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
The basis for this video is a fundamental misunderstanding of the history of the church.
Polygamy was renounced under duress of the Edmunds-Tucker Act when faced with imprisonment and loss of property, not to mention the fact that the Utah Territiories would not attain statehood as long as they practiced polygamy.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Uneducated? You folks need to get that notion out of your heads. If you're ever read any of JS's handwritten letters, it's pretty obvious that he's not as uneducated as you'd have us believe. He was actually fairly intelligent and we know he had a vivid imagination.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
so, why do the "prophets" get to keep changing the rules when even your own scripture states the "decrees of God are unalterable" in Alma 41:8?
sonofcohen 3 years ago
That's the $64,000 question, isn't it? The BOM clearly states at many points that God is the same "from eternity to eternity," and we know that the prophets speak as from God, but he was either lying in the BOM, has ADD, or the entire thing is a sham.
I wonder which one it is...
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
not really a 64,000 question especially since scripture tells us that Jesus is our only and last living prophet. . There is enough evidence to show that the BOM is a sham as you put it.
sonofcohen 2 years ago
The $64,000 is froma game show, only used to illustrate that it's an important matter.
But the whole of your position is correct. Jesus is the last, final, and ultimate sacrifice and the only thing we need to get to Heaven. It's almost painfully simple, isn't it?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
It is an established legal fact G.F. Smith and contemporaries practiced polygamy and were in court over the issue in 1915. Also, a guy named Smoot...... I use, in part, R.N. Baskin, Prosecutor
IExposeMormonism 3 years ago
The true church was restored by God in the Philippines in 1914.
It's called "Iglesia Ni Cristo" or the Church of Christ.
anoifromlondon 3 years ago
thanks for your words. keep it up wayne
glycoboy 3 years ago
>great short vid. im sure u know of this scripture and its context but i think it could be great to add in ur next vid about this. **Jacob 2: 24, 30** this chapter is clear in stating how wrong it is in the sight of God to commit whoredoms and adultury polygamy etc EXCEPT IN ISOLATED INCIDENCES WHEN HE COMMANDS IT TO RAISE UP SEED, AND FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES. why did prophets in the bible practice it & again today? only God fully knows. i too trust in living prophets & know them to speak truth
glycoboy 3 years ago
Same prophet, same book,same everything..SAME CULT.
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
haha, you only say CULT cause it sounds all cool and tough. have you ever seen or learned about what those types of cults your are referring to are about? its wrong, i know... but clearly you haven't entered our churches to get to know how we function and the faith in Christ of our members. i am not sure of course but i'd guess u just spit out fallacies on the internet and to members of Christs' church..... come have a visit and feel and know of God's eternal love in our meetings.
glycoboy 3 years ago
GlycoBOY, my whole family left the cult after more than 70 years on it..so do not come here saying we never entered the church because I was raised inside the LDS Mormon cult churches. The internet is killing the Mormonism and helping people to get out of there running...Do your research, do not let the leaders brainwash you...YOU ARE PRAYING TO A DIFFERENT GOD AND JESUS...get out of there!
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
Save it
Theeagerburger 3 years ago
Save it you lying mormon all mormons lie, way too many researchers throughout the decades found solid enough evidence to prove that mormonism is satanic, you people can lie and lie and lie but e.g. when a dectective has evidence that a murderer killed people, that murderer is wasting his time lying about it and trying to say that he didnt do it when the evidence is right there
Theeagerburger 3 years ago
open up the book of mormon and read: **Jacob 2: 24, 30** this chapter is clear in stating how wrong it is in the sight of God to commit whoredoms and adultury polygamy etc EXCEPT IN ISOLATED INCIDENCES WHEN HE COMMANDS IT TO RAISE UP SEED, AND FOR HIS OWN PURPOSES. why did prophets in the bible practice it & again today? only God fully knows. i too trust in living prophets & know them to speak truth. your hatred can turn to love in ernest prayer and lowering your pride.. i wish you well
glycoboy 3 years ago 2
You don't sit there and tell me to pick up some blasphemous piece of shit book of mormon to read you satanic mormon.. thousands of researchers throughout the decades already found solid enough evidence to prove that mormonism is satanic so go hail your filthy mormon prophet of satan joseph smith
Theeagerburger 3 years ago
hahahaahahha..true
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
and here you sit in all your vulgar attitudes casting stones...
solowookie 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You mormon assholes have the monopoly on vulgar especially by the way you blasphemize Jesus Christ and put some scumbag mormon prophet of satan joseph smith above Christ
Theeagerburger 3 years ago
I think that may be one of the most hypocritical statements I have seen. one one hand you are speaking with vulgar language, and on the other hand 'monopoly on the vulgar'. that is a classic respone.
it was Joseph Smith himself who stated he was 'just a man', and that the church is built on the foundation of Christ.
perhaps you should actually study the tenants of the religion.
lastly you show no true belief in Christ, or you would be unable to make the statements you do.
solowookie 3 years ago 6
I agree with you there. That wasn't called for and shows no true Christian heart.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
@solowookie Just because ''officially'' there no connection, the LDS church is based on absolute bullhit...NOT ONE THREAD OF EVIDENCE EXCISTS, THE WHOLE DEAL IS MADE UP. THERE ARE NO TRUE WITNESSESS. ALL THESE SO CALLED WITNESSESS WERE ALLOWED TO WITTNESS WERE WOODEN BOARDS COVERED WITH CLOTH THAT WERE TOLD TO BE GOLDEN PLATES. BESIDES, THERE IS A LOT OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THE DENOUNCES THE ENTIRE NONSENSE FOR THE SHIT THAT IS...DRIPPING OUT OF THE ASS OF JOSEPH PEDOPHILE SMITH!!!!
NathaliaArroyo 1 year ago
@NathaliaArroyo wodden boards covered with cloth? and you think we are good at story telling. I have some swamp land I would like to sell you. even those that left the church went to great length to make sure supported their testimonies of the BofM. now in a world where all the these lies were contrived and such damage done, and when so many of those returned to the church renouncing those lies, why would those men do that?
solowookie 1 year ago
I'm told the church is the only correct one on the face of earth, has the only correct understanding of the Godhead, and is a restoration based on the revelations of JS.
I only use Mormon standards as laid out by the standard works, accepted texts, and words of the prophets and apostles.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Open teh book of mormon to know what was going on on joseph smith's own mind...its all his ideas...Its a book full of errors, mistakes, confusion. Not a good book.
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
If you had bothered to read the Book for yourself with an open mind, which you obviously have not, you would find that there are no errors, contradictions, mistakes, or confusing statements made. The Book of Mormon is the Word of God. It testifies of the divinity of Jesus Christ, the son of God. You will not find any of Joseph Smith's "ideas" in the Book at all. It is an ancient record of people who lived on the American continent many years ago.
frosch455 3 years ago
Ancient record??? 150 years is ancient?? lol
Brother, ANY, I said ANY book that you read with an OPEN MIND, will make you think is true.
Read one of the HARRY POTTER;s book with an open mind...try it.
About the BOM being the word of God..YES it is..THE MORMON GOD, not the Christian one.
You should start reading a little bit more about the more than 4 THOUSAND errors found in the BOM.
theTruthNotLies 3 years ago
So you're saying that we dissenters have no idea what Mormonism is really about?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
The Devil was once an Angel of high standing in heaven. But grew jealous of Jesus, since Jesus is Gods son and is in the highest position of all angels. It was this envy that caused this angel to become the Devil. God made everything perfect but gave everyone freedom of choice. Because he wants us to worship him because of wanting to, not having to.
Hmm sounds so much like how the mormons are to the Catholics, satan and mormons do indeed go hand in hand
Theeagerburger 3 years ago
Hi MWayneW, I love to share how I see polygamy and how God prepare me to this princepal. Its 31 December and my houshold dements my full atention. So in the new year I will mail to you on your account if you don't mind. I have to prepair becous my Englisch is bad, I am Duch. So the best wishes for you and your family in 2009.
God bless, sis Ria
amsetenashkin 3 years ago
Overstated. John Taylor succeeded Brigham Young
not Wilford Woodruff and what Wilford had was one heck of a bad dream, excelling only that of Dicken's Scrooge. The proposition that the dream was of God was sustained by the few able
to attend conference--putting it on the level
of the Word of Wisdom--it was a ratified Word of Wisdom from God, as the Salt Lake saints saw it at that time. It was not incompatible
with the Revelation of John Taylor who was the
Prophet.
DadsBlueAngel 3 years ago
We still believe in polygamy, we do seal more than 1 wife to a man. My grandfhater has be sealt to 3 of his wifes. Polygamy is already in the church becous God promist to bring polygamy back in the church. So with this anser I think efrebody need to be prepaer and better start thinking polygamous.
There are yust not enough good and righges man on eart. I love to live plural mariage, even in secred. Sorry my spelling is bad I am not englisch speaking. God bless
amsetenashkin 3 years ago
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints practices polygamous marriage sealings in their temples. A mormon widowed man can marry for eternal polygamy his next earthly wife. A mormon widowed woman CANNOT do that. She can only be marriage sealed to one man, yet a Mormon man has no such restriction. Polygamy is a major belief of the LDS and only the LAW brought a halt to it.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
It all started with Joseph. Oliver Cowdry talked about Josephs affair with Fanny Alger "before the D&C 132 revelation" "It was a dirty, nasty, filthy affair".
GiftoAll 3 years ago
The original commandment given by Joseph Smith > Verily I say unto you that the wisdom of man in his fallen state, knoweth not the purposes and the privileges of my holy priesthood, but ye shall know when ye receive a fulness by reason of the anointing: For it is my will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity may become white, delightsome and Just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles.
GiftoAll 3 years ago
This racism was not uncommon in the 1830s. Polygamy was against the law and has never changed. There were never more women than men. The church has also claimed that the commandment was needed to populate the church. How foolish! The remaining mormon sects are following Josephs original teachings, which is a commandment of MAN, not God.
GiftoAll 3 years ago
The LDS church still practices Polygamous sealings in the Temple today. Widowed Mormon men marry aditional earthly wives and seal them polygamously in the temple.Widowed mormon women on the other hand cannot marry and seal polygamously additional earthly husbands, effectively commiting Adultery until they reunite with their original eternal partner.
ElderJoseph 3 years ago
Abraham was dinging his wifes hand maiden, legal under law of inheritance,to provide heir. This was not Gods law. Abe's reward for dinging Hagar was CIRCUMCISION. His thumping Hagar was all wrong and created problems. So did Solomons Polygamy. The Polygamy Revelation is "suspended" but the word is meaningless, the Mormon Hierarchy did (and does) practice it. It is intact and waiting expression. it is viral. The BofM has 4000+changes. Polygamy will be practiced by "Main Stream" Mormons soon
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
Yup. Google "D. Michael Quinn and post-manifesto polygamy." This paper shows how the 1st manifesto was a hoax to get the gov't of the Church's back. Leaders including the 12 continued to approve/perform plural marriages until 1904 (Smoot hearings).
Such deception/continuing disingenuousness on the topic is why many don't what LDS inc. says about anything.
Good LDS polygamy books :
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith - Compton
Mormon Polygamy: A History - Van Wagoner
taskboy 3 years ago
They were practicing it after 1913.RN Baskin, "Reminisence of Early Utah" he prosecuted JD Lee. And in "Kawiches Gold Mine",1913, Josiah Gibbs shows us POLYGAMY Caves in the Grand Canyon Area. I posted some Pics of this scarce book. (the text is tuff to read;blame youtube)
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
You've forgotten to mention some Mormon men are sealed to 2nd wife after the death of the first w/ the intent of being married to both in the next life. This comply with the "law of the land" while still practicing this deeply held and somewhat underground belief in polygamy. Women can't be sealed to more than 1 man w/o a Temple Divorce.
Current LDS Apostles Dahlin H. Oaks and Russell M. Nelson were sealed to 2nd wives following the death of the first. Former prophet Harold B. Lee was as well.
taskboy 3 years ago
You said:
The FLDS practice of polygamy is NOTHING like the practice of polygamy in the days of Brigham Young.
*****************************************************
Examples please. Where is your basis for saying this?
From my research the practices are far more similar than different. Show me yours. I'll show you mine.
taskboy 3 years ago
FLDS is very much the mormonism practiced during B. Young's time. Let's not forget that polygamy does exist in the CK. It can be reinstated at any time some President of LDS decides he wants to.
J. Smith, or "Horny Joe" introduced it to try to legitimize his perpetual quest for tail. He lied about doing it. He threated his poor wife about it.
Struggle with it? Ockham's razor indicates that Smith was a louse and a dirty conman.
Trillidotia 3 years ago
Polygamy is forbidden by Mormon scripture itself unless it is explicitly commanded by God (see Book of Mormon : Jacob 2). Polygamy never was a requirement for Sainthood. This is proven because only 20 percent of Mormons practiced it during the peak of polygamy in Utah. There wasn't a ban in the Revelations from God, rather: God ceased to give the command. The term "ban" is used loosly rather, it means that God had not commanded it further.
I too struggle to understand the meaning of it.
ahburner 3 years ago
"I too struggle to understand the meaning of it."
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Not to offend but it's a struggle cuz I suspect you are trying reconcile polygamy while keeping a certain image of JS. The truth is that J. Smith was not quite the white knight the church makes out. Also IMO polygamy is inconsistent with a loving God.
"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." So consider for a second that JS was a fallible man who created a 'doctrine' to suit his needs. Makes sense to me.
taskboy 3 years ago
Also the 20-30 percent proves nothing. For men to have multiple wives you need many, many women. With a 50/50 male/female split only so many guys got the wives (and the eternal glory that came along with it) . You guessed it. The top leaders got the women. You regular joe was lucky to find one wife with guys like BY (56) and Heber Kimball (40+/-). around
taskboy 3 years ago
Mormon Polygamy involves Polyandry. Something not often spoken of.Not even on the Polygamy revelation. JD Lee speaks of Polygamy in 1838. He writes of a wife of his that also had a living husband. Mormon Polygamy is dangerous and seeks expression.
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
The answer to that is in the vault. Hyrum and Emma went to
Governor Ford to ask protection for Joseph who would be kept in the debtors' prison. Joseph was staying on the other side of the river while his bodyguard built Emma and Joseph a winter cabin upriver.
Hyrum plead with his bother, fearing the sack o the city
afterwards if he could not be produced. ''A Prophet hath no honor i his own country.'' Never morso than on that night. [Guymon Family History, Joseph Anderson, BYU, History Dept]
DadsBlueAngel 3 years ago
Willford Woodruff lay before the Tabernacle congregation the probable consequences of continuing the practice. Many Men in favor were in prison, others were in hiding. Many left the country in hope of living the Principal legally. A 1904 second manifesto broadened the ban to include members outside of the country. No revelation was ever Men were not forced to abandon existing families.
A woman married at 20 in 1904 lived in polygamous marriages as late as 1994 within the LDS Church.
DadsBlueAngel 3 years ago
To liken your disobedience & Christian monogamy as both being examples of Christians rejecting earlier teaching is breathtaking. No Church since Christ has practised polygamy and yet you state that we were abandoning a teaching in the same way that mormons did a mere 50 years after a 'prophet' was ordered to practice it, this is mindblowingly brave. It will persuade no-one but other mormons.Logic stretching is necessary to you but is a constant & fascinating feature of the LDS to any outsider.
Estaban333 3 years ago
This was an eternal command (observed enthusiastically by Joseph himself who took the wives and young daughters of his own followers!) like the ban on marrying blacks (blood atonement matter) or banning blacks from the priesthood. The only thing eternal about the LDS appears to be its eternal setting aside of its own revelations. The eternal temple endowment ceremonies were apparently changed after a survey!! I predict that the handshakes will soon go the same way. You stand on shifting sands.
Estaban333 3 years ago
I will never bash the "Clean Cut Lads on Bikes" but to think that Joseph Smith heard God wrong the first time when he was told polygamy was good and then recant his story by saying polygamy was bad would mean that either he or God was wrong. Saying a fundamentalist Mormon is not a real Mormon would be like saying that fundamental Muslims are not real Muslims and that fundamental Baptist' are not real Baptist.
VulcanBikeWizard 3 years ago
VulcanBikeWizard,
Thanks for the response. I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. It's not as simple as saying Joseph said God told him to practice polygamy, and then he went out and mistakenly did it. It was done at great personal cost. If he was a lecher, much easier to just go out and cheat rather than make it a marriage and accepted by the Church.
Second, FLDS have as much right to claim the title Mormon as LDS do, LDS just want to make there is no confusion. Thanks
believingldsmormon 3 years ago
I know for a fact that when nobody is looking the young bike missionaries have secret bike parties where they crash their bikes doing stunts, jumping around, wheelies, going down stairs and judging from the condition of some of their bikes I know these lads tend to catch a little air and I can appreciate that. Only the local police are as hard on their bikes and judging from the condition of their bikes I suspect they have little bike parties of their own.
VulcanBikeWizard 3 years ago
You're right, no, there is no connection. FDLS are real Mormons, and LDS are phonies.
And the practice was ended by the revelation that the U.S. congress wasn't going to let the state of Utah into the union with your wierd colts dispicable polygamy practice; that's the one and only reason they canged it.
The real Mormons kept practicing their faith, and the LDS sold out for political expiedency.
Yobachi2007 3 years ago
So can you understand why I, and others, are totally confused with your laws in the US which allow 'cults' like this to exist. Can you please also explain why your lawmakers seem to do nothing to stop abuse within cults until it is too late? I think that most in your country are just too preoccupied with your own lives and als just too plain ignorant of the facts. AND, the US wants to set a moral example!!! Get your own house in order please!!!!
bacaca88 3 years ago
To put it simply; allowing 'cults' like this calls into question the judgement of you and other 'ordinary' folk in the US. How-therefore-can the rest of the World take you seriously when you pontificate about other religions which you obviously know nothing about - Islam for example. Please set your own 'screwed up' house in order first and stop these child abuses. Otherwise, just keep your stupid mouths shut and continue to allow these people to rape kids-making you accessories to paedophilia.
bacaca88 3 years ago
Bacaca88, we have a constitutional right to religion and freedom of association. So you can't tell people that they can't practice a faith or be weird.
They used to bust up polygamy colts and jail the men until a bust about 40 years ago where the polygamist waited for the police to come in the town square and sang songs as they were arrested. This was seen on t.v. and it turned the tied against busting them up cause people saw it as breaking up families who weren't hurting anybody.
Yobachi2007 3 years ago
To put it plainly to you constitutionalists; you and your country are totally fucked up even debating this issue. You are sick and these people doing these things need to be locked up. Polygamy and child abuse cannot be 'just' explained away by your fucked up constitution. Get a life please.
bacaca88 3 years ago
Bacaca88,
Let's keep it civil, please. I agree, those that are abusing, sexually, mentally, physically boys and girls need to be locked up. No one arguing that that is okay, or that the constitution allows it.
Thanks - Steve
believingldsmormon 3 years ago
Personally, I am disgusted with you. Child abuse by any religion, individual or whatever cannot be explained by you or anyone. However, it seems like this has been accepted in the US by some and covered up by many. I watched coverage of the 'mothers' of the abused on CNN and think that they-like most of the US-are totally fucked up. You live in a very sick, sad place. And, you want to preach morality to the rest of the world??? Please set your own house in order first.
bacaca88 3 years ago
Hagar was a pilagesh not a ishet therefore she never retained the actual status of wife. the pilagesh institution is not actual marriage. what the FLDS does is actual polygamous marriage which is not biblical
paciboy 3 years ago
"Is there a connection between Fundamentalist LDS groups ... and the LDS Church?" The current edition of the D&C STILL contains section 132. It has been neither removed nor revised, and is still considered scripture. Is THAT not a CONNECTION?
MormonRealityCheck 3 years ago
MormonRealityCheck,
The modern LDS church does not deny that polygamy was once practiced, even practiced righteously through revelation, as outlined in the D&C. But just as the law of consecration, which is revealed in the D&C, was rescinded later, so was polygamy. Doesn't mean it wasn't true or it should be buried and ignored, any more than Christians should bury the practice of the Law of Moses in the OT.
Thanks - Steve
believingldsmormon 3 years ago
Compliments on the overall accuracy of your video. I am in full agreement with windowwasher2. Current LDS pick and choose which parts of their heritage to retain. The 1890 manifesto was not considered a "revelation" by the GA's at that time, hence post-ma