C14, "Accepted Dates are Actually Selected Dates"

[abarrathemaster]

the earth was created this yesterday by our only true god, chack norris

[BiiigT]

They just can't stop using these washed up arguments, these creationist clowns. I couldn't help but notice that NONE of the NUMEROUS other dating methods were not mentioned....

[BereanBeacon1]

@BiiigT All evolutionists have is hot air on the mostly anonymous Internet. We have the real science backed up by the $10,000 Life Science Prize. You can evolve from a chicken and win the prize or make cowardly remarks on websites until you ultimately die and become a creationists after it's too late. My last remark to you is something that everyone understands: CLUCK, CLUCK

[BiiigT]

@BereanBeacon1 Nice comeback ;) ..... Now - about all those other dating methods.....? Oh, that's right, you don't know anything about that since you only read creationist literature. If I evolved from a chicken it would DISPROVE evolution, but I realize that you really don't even know what evolution means, so I won't bother pondering this issue. I wonder why all those respectable institutions ignore the Life Science Prize...hmmm ;) And where are Ham and Hovind's peer review submissions???

[gregrutz]

@BereanBeacon1 someone just won the Life Science Prize, you lose.

[BereanBeacon1]

@BiiigT Cluck, cluck

[BiiigT]

@BereanBeacon1 Hey, at least those guys provide hours of laughable entertainment, together with the YouTube gurus like Nephilimfree and VenomFangX, whos knowledge and understanding of science could fit in a match box..... Oh, and I'm sorry, I was supposed to say DOCTOR Hovind, with his make-believe PhD earned by correspondence from a non-accredited "university" run out of a two-room building in Colorado....

[foxhole8063]

@BereanBeacon1 Any word on your inevitable journal submission? Or is clucking and running away all you're any good for?

[TheScienceFoundation]

@BereanBeacon1 What's the matter, you too chicken to challenge your fellow creationists to do actual science in the actual scientific arena?

[Thomasl777]

How can something be "accurately dated" if the method is based on assumptions? The assumption is based on a living organism assimilating 12 C14 for every one trillion C12 atoms that it contains. For simplicity's sake if a leave contained 1 trillion Carbon atoms, it would contain 12 C14. But what if it contained 24 or any other quantity?

[Thomasl777]

"it is stated that the percentage of C14 in the atmosphere is constant however why would the assimilation of C14 by living organism follow the same ratio?

What if the radiation 20,000 years ago were much higher and produced more C14 atoms? What about contamination of the sample?

I am baffled how could a method be called scientifically accurate when there are so many variables?

[pyr666]

@Thomasl777

"What if the radiation 20,000 years ago were much higher and produced more C14 atoms?"

it would show up in ice-cores taken from the poles.

"What about contamination of the sample?" that's something very well understood. there are only a few things that can change the C14 in something after it's dead and they all leave signs.

[Thomasl777]

@pyr666Thank you for the feedback. I am trying to understand this> Is there a chart compiled from ice core samples that gives the exact C14 values for a period which then can be compared to the original sample? If my sample dates 50thou years, I need to check the values against the ice core samples do I not? Why would the C14 value be constant? How do we know for sure that the assimilated quantity is always 1 part/trillion?

[pyr666]

@Thomasl777

"Is there a chart compiled from ice core samples that gives the exact C14 values for a period which then can be compared to the original sample?" it's more complicated than that, but basically, ya.

"Why would the C14 value be constant?" i honestly dont know. im sure you could look it up.

"How do we know for sure that the assimilated quantity is always 1 part/trillion?" its always the same as the air, that we can observe today.

[Thomasl777]

@pyr666 My first disappointment is school was to find out that tachyons travel faster than the speed of light. How could Einstein's Theory be violated by a miniscule particle? My point is that carbon dating is a theory based on some scientific observations, however there is no solid scientific proof to confirm that the hypothesis is true. Why would the C14 value be the same in a fossil found in Africa than in the icecore from Antarctica 20 th years ago? Do we have ice core samples from Africa?

[soundmindwar]

@Thomasl777 i realise you posted your argument 2 months ago. that said I'll answer. first learn the definition of "theory" because it is NOT the same as hypothesis. A theory is the explanation of an observable fact and carbon dating is not a theory in either regard. It is a tool, nothing more nothing less. It is very accurate except in very specific situations which are well understood. tachyons on the other hand are completely hypothetical. for more info check out /watch?v=QbvMB57evy4 itll help

[granddad2002]

Funny thing about radio-carbon: it has more uses besides dating. Tracking, tracing and monitoring the environment. Common household devices like smoke detectors pick up CO in the environment. The method did astound me, standard household detectors are like radiation labs in miniature. CO that enters into the instrument get exposed to some Americium 242... then to a geiger counter... CO is easily tagged;

WE put are lives on the physics and chemistry on these isotopes. I think it's reliable.

[pyr666]

@granddad2002

i never new that. that's just awesome in a way i can't describe.

[kmile123]

I love how these lead creationists always proclaim themselves as doctors. “Dr.” Thomas Kindell received his degree from the California Graduate School of Theology an UNACCREDITED American institution of higher learning, in other words it is not recognized by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, the primary body responsible for college and university accreditation in the region. His doctorate is a baloney forgery. 

[TheBoogieman7]

You must bear in mind. The Bible was translated in such a way as to allow most people who are not as educated or intelligent as we are today to grasp the basic concept of God. Moses was educated by the Egyptians who had the ancient knowledge from the Antediluvians of Eden (Atlantis). That knowledge was lost when Satan's false Church of Christ came into power. The Great Harlot of Babylon is the Catholic Church and the so called Christian churches that came out of her are her immoral Daughters.

[TheBoogieman7]

This time around those that have proved their loyalty will be exalted above the Angels. Christ will set up his Kingdom on the Earth for 1000 years, and then Satan will be loosed again to test and sift out all those that would eventually rebel against God. Then they will be eliminated. It is then that God will come and dwell with his children on the Earth. Almost everything that appears to contradict the Bible is the result of mis-information, and or outright lies. Satan is the God of this world

[TheBoogieman7]

The so called fossil record is easily collaborated by the Bible. God made man. next, the Sons of God (Nephilim) came down and took wives of humans Gen.6:2 the fossil remains of Neanderthal Man are the Nephilim bones. The Fossil remains of Cro-magnum man are the bones of the hybrid race created by the Nephilim. The humans of that time were very small 4-5 feet, so these (Sons of the Gods) were giants 8- 14 feet tall. The ancient skeletons prove the Bible is true. I hope that gives understanding

[ReptilianFreemason]

I take it genetics aren't your forte? We KNOW we share common ancestors with these hominids, it's genetically verifiable.

Now you're not addressing my question, why does life get more basic the lower through the strata we get? Why are dinosaur remains only found below the KT? Why didn't a single pterodon manage to make it to high ground with say, the elephants? Why aren't there any mammalian fossils found in the Cambrian? Why are human remains only found in the most superficial layers? etc etc.

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason These are all good questions, but I believe they result from false knowledge claims and lies made by Scientists that are trying to make the evidence fit their hypothesis. Science is now proving that most of these theories are false. Man did exist at the same time as dinosaurs. There is a legend of the flood in every ancient culture with the story of Noe and the ark and the animals. Some of the dinosaurs that could survive in water still remain. check out Giant birds on utube.

[TheBoogieman7]

Satan's attempt to corrupt the gene pool of humanity was an attempt to prevent the Christ from being born. He knows God's scriptures better then anyone on earth. Noe or Noah was "perfect in his generations" (of a pure blood line from Adam) He was also a righteous man. All of humanity and the race of hybrid humans were very corrupt and wicked. Gen. 6:5...every imagination of his heart was evil continually. This grieved God in His spirit. Gen. 7:11 ....and the windows of heaven were opened.

[ReptilianFreemason]

@The BoogieMan7

blah blah blah, irrational nonsense supported by nothing, opposed by empirical evidence. FAIL

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason Of course these things are impossible, to us; not to God! The earth will burn up eventually and God will make a new one for Himself and his children to live on with him. I already told you this is not possible for you to understand. Why don't you (pray) ask God about your questions, and doubts. Read your Bible rather then question me. I am only reflecting what I think the Bible has revealed to me on these matters. Read it first. Then you will have the right to an opinion.

[ReptilianFreemason]

So you're saying earth will be destroyed & god will poof up another earth & poof a couple of Adam & Eve's to blame for his mistakes there too? I've never come across this verse in the bible, where does it say this?

It must be wonderful being able to know the mind of an omnipotent deity in such depth, you're very lucky........or delusional & egotistical beyond belief.

Ps. if i pray to my bicycle then i guarantee we'd have the same success rate, it's all just superstitious wish-thinking.

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason I am saying what is written in the Bible. I don't make it up. The Earth will be destroyed by fire. God will re-make the earth just as he has done in the past. How many times? We don't know. The He will abide with Hid Children on the Earth it's self. He just want's to live with us. I hope someday you grasp these concepts. It's about love my friend. It's all and only about love. The ego must die in order to understand this type of love. It's called agape.

[ReptilianFreemason]

1

So where does it say this in the bible? Can you refer me to the chapter & verse?

Are you saying we're not the first human race, that other humans have inhabited other 'earths'??

God wants to live with us? This all seems very implausible, your gods alleged to be omnipotent, omniscient & omnipresent, why bother going through all of this when he could snap his fingers & sort it without all the suffering? Absolute hogwash that makes NO sense whatsoever.

Ill NEVER grasp the concept of god....

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason God is Spirit; This is how he can be everywhere at the same time. God doesn't want robots to live with. This is why he gave free will to the Angels, and subsequently to mankind. These (fallen) Angels have humanoid bodies, (look like Aliens?)and bred with the humans on earth. Satan was the most beautiful and powerful of all the Angels. All suffering is a result of free will. God has been using Satan to test the loyalty of every human being. He doesn't want another rebellion.

[ReptilianFreemason]

2

...because it's an utterly failed concept that defies logic. Your gods totally deficient as is demonstrated throughout the bible eg. murdering millions of innocent men, women, children & animals just to rid the world of a few bad eggs (the imaginary global flood we've now PROVEN didn't happen). Killing countless innocent babies & children in the flight out of Egypt etc. Why not click his fingers & send out strategically placed heart attacks? The flood didn't even work!! The nephilim were....

[ReptilianFreemason]

3

...still about after it so what does that say about your all-powerful deity?? Not a lot!

Its not us who are egotistical, we're not the ones who believe theyre special, this universe was created with us in mind, that we know the mind of such a being, that he listens to our every thought & that he has a special plan for us when we die. Now THAT'S egotistical! We simply accept we're biological beings that will live & die like EVERY other biological being & once the brain is dead, game over.

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason My friend: It's not rational, because it about the realm of the supernatural. God is Spirit. He is the one who makes matter form from energy. It's beyond our ability to comprehend. I have performed miracles by letting pure faith open up a conduit by praying in the Name or Jesus Christ. I have had miracles of healing before my very eyes.I have binded plagues of insects and the weather. I believe every miracle Jesus did was to show us how we may use God's power on the earth.

[TheBoogieman7]

OK: the second day of creation; Genesis 1:6  And, God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters. And let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. : and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.... 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear, and it was so..

[ReptilianFreemason]

@TheBoogieman7

I don't care what it says in a book written by men when that book directly contradicts what we know & observe. There is nothing more to it than that.

Do you believe there are insects & birds with 4 legs? It say's so in that book therefore you must. Care to name one?

Now address those fundamental flaws with your 'water canopy' theory that i gave you. How did it stay up there & where is all that water now?

Ps. When will you people learn, scripture does NOT verify scripture??

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason Yup; It's not possible if you base it on our observations. It can only be seen through the eyes of a child. Logic don't apply here. It's beyond the natural laws of physics. I have hung out with people like the Grateful Dead. Worked for the richest man in the world. Traveled to the Far East. Have studied Sociology / Psychology. Have an IQ only 3 points below Genius. But, if you want to know how I know God is real. It's because I still have the eyes and heart of a child.

[ReptilianFreemason]

@TheBoogieman7

You sir are a shameless liar & a bad one at that. You claim to be a genius yet you deny observable evidence you can easily verify yoursef? lol, & i'm mother teresa. They do say there's a thin line between genius & madness, i think you may have hopped over to the other side.

Come on then genius, explain the order of complexity found in the fossil record?

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason You would be surprised if you knew who I was, bur one thing is for sure. I am not a liar. Have a nice life son.

[ReptilianFreemason]

@TheBoogieman7

Please stop with this pretence, you're nobody special. Just ask yourself why you are the only "genius" who rejects evolution over creationism & why the intellectual ellite state categorically, evolution is as much a fact as the earth orbiting the sun? No rational mind rejects evolution & the only people who do, do so PURELY on scriptural grounds.

How do you manage to keep your head buried to this mountain of evidence? What about the biological proof we have for common descent?

[ReptilianFreemason]

This video is yet another display of creationist deceit.

Gentry is a joke in scientific circles & his claims have been laughed out of court.

"His book (self-published) is a source of much misinformation about current geologic thinking and confuses fact with interpretation. In general I don't think educators will find its worth their time to tread through this creationist's whining." - Dr G. Wilkerson

He's been described as "frequently whining about discrimination" by fellow creationists!

[TheBoogieman7]

...a layer of water encapsulating the earth protecting it from all the harmful radiation we are now bombarded with. The earth is very old. God had to recreate the earth before he made man 6,000 years ago. There had been a war in heaven when Satan and His angels tried to overthrow God, and the whole universe was destroyed. God used the flood to wipe the hybrid race The Nephilim had created. After the flood the life span of man went from indefinite to 70 years. This was caused by radiation.

[ReptilianFreemason]

@TheBoogieman7

1// Have you listened to yourself? How the hell do you know all of this??? What kind of defective god do you worship that had to flood the earth, killing millions of innocent men, women, child & beast just to get rid of a few 'giants'?? HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE OMNIPOTENT! Why didn't he just 'wish' them away???? It didn't even work as (according to scripture) the Nephilim were still around AFTER the flood! You must have committed intellectual suicide to believe this.

[TheBoogieman7]

@ReptilianFreemason How I know? By God''s Holy Spirit revealing things to me in the Bible. The Bible is written is such a way that without the Divine Discernment of the Holy Spirit a person won't be able to grasp what it is saying. I'm not a scientist, but I know enough to know that the earth is a self regulating organism. God placed the earth at exactly the right distance from the sun to sustain life. It heats up, it cools down.The layer of water would be the outside layer of the ionosphere.

[ReptilianFreemason]

@TheBoogieman7

(1) More subjective nonsense supported by nothing. You are free to believe whatever, i really don't care but what bothers me is that you are going around from video to video & god knows where else, asserting it as fact. IT ISN'T FACT!!! Quit misleading people with your certifiable bullshit & keep your idiotic, infantile ignorance to yourself.

The earth isn't an organism, it's not a biological being though it does self regulate agreed. The earth was here for billions of.....

[ReptilianFreemason]

(2) .....years before man & will be here for billions of years after we've gone no matter how much we screw the place up, that we are certain of, the earth will be just fine, its our species whos in danger. To believe the earth has always been this distance from the sun & always will be is just plain retarded & willfully ignorant or celestial mechanics. Get a grip, pick up a bloody text book & bloody educated yourself! You're in your 50's, you should be ashamed to have got so far through.....

[ReptilianFreemason]

(3) ....life with such little understanding of the world you live in. My little boy has a greater understanding of natural order than you! Shocking.

"The layer of water would be the outside layer of the ionosphere"

PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

[ReptilianFreemason]

2// As for the "layer of water encapsulating the earth protecting it from all the harmful radiation", since when has water been a barrier to radiation???? That's pure, pious ignorance, you just make up your own science & have the audacity to call mainstream science 'pseudoscience'?? You bloody hypocrite!

You clearly have no knowledge of atmospheric pressure. It would also cause a greenhouse effect making the temperature extreme, let alone raising nitrogen & oxygen levels to highly toxic levels.

[ReptilianFreemason]

3// Yes we have a 'vapour canopy' though we call them 'clouds' & if too much water builds up in them, it rains out. Care to explain how this "layer of water" managed to magically hold up in the sky? How it got there? Why hasn't it replenished? Where the hell did this MASSIVE amount of water go? Why didn't god make it as it was prior to this imaginary flood? Ever wonder why people don't take you seriously?

Ps. Get off that computer our pseudoscience provided you with!

[TheBoogieman7]

The problems with the carbon dating process is simple. i will explain something God revealed to me. As long as pseudo science continues to reject the Bible as the true foundation of knowledge they will never figure it out. first off all. Before the flood no one that had ever lived on the earth had ever died of natural causes. that is because before the flood it had never rained. Why? because before the flood most of the water that makes up the oceans was up in our atmosphere. There was....

[albanaeon]

Wow. I think the scientist realize this and that's why they have so many other methods for dating that are more reliable. The real point for creationists is that ALL of these dates show their little fables are fairy tales.

[georgiadrew]

the shroud is a fake - duh??? just like all religion is. It is BS for the morons who believe in religious crap and have jello for brains. wake up fools

[Paleopipes]

If carbon dating is so invalid why haven't you written it up professionally in the appropriate scientific journals and presented it to the scientific community instead of pandering to the religious community knowing they don't have the knowledge to refute your outrageous baseless claims?  Also explain why not one single creationist claim concerning geology, astronomy, chemistry or physics ever been published in any professional scientific journal?

[gregrutz]

Total BS

[PanamaJackson]

Double B.S.

[tehsma]

Is it bad that I could tell he was a creationist based on the speed of his ramblings?

[Atheeizm]

B.S.

[humanist7117]

B.S.

[kryptemonic]

I'd like a video to try to ACTUALLY disprove Carbon dating, along with stratigraphy, dendrochronology, obsidian hydration, thermoluminescence, electron spin resonance, potassium-argon dating (can date from 100k years till beginning of the earth billions of years ago), fission track dating, amino acid racemiyation, and archaeomagnitism/geomagnitism.

These are ALL used to date objects, well past when the bible says earth was made, and they scientifically back eachother up. SUCK ON THAT!!!

[kryptemonic]

OK, this is how carbon dating works. Basically, all living carbon based life forms are made out of unstable Carbon 14. When something dies, the Carbon 14 decays into Carbon 12. In this process, Carbon 14 has a halflife of 5730 years. So, knowing the halflife, and measuring the ratio of Carbon 14 to Carbon 12, we can make an estimate usually give or take 50 to 500 years depending on the age of a sample, the margin for error increasing as the age does. It can go as far back as 30 thousand years.

[sweetbilly]

Yes, he's right, the dates are picked out for what they think is correct, it's not always correct. The recent dating of a woolly mammoth revealed the skin was something like 2000 years old while the bones were dated to 20,000 years old. See a problem here? The method is acceptable if used "correctly", the science is solid in an "unchanging environment". Too bad no such thing exists. But we always find evolutionists having to "PREPARE" the slides before dating.

[sweetbilly]

If you have to "prepare" the slides prior to dating, otherwise your method is incorrect and sample has been tampered with. They also have the same problem with OSL and TL dating techniques, you "MUST" have an accurate picture of both what the environment was like at that time, and if what you are dating has "EVER" seen sunlight or been exposed to heat, other wise the dates are skewed. There is "NO WAY" to know these things for sure, therefore NO accurate dating method exists.

[lawilson200]

LOL! BB, it is really quite funny the facination YECers (such as yourself) have with c14 dating, especially when c14 is regularly used by biblical archeologist to date archeological finds in the Holy Lands. So if C14 is supposedly accurate enough to date (example) the Dead Sea Scrolls, but not accurate enough for anything else? An interesting cornundrum for you. Besides, the C14 method is limited to 50,000 years old and it only measure organic material. Care to comment?

[mindwis3]

Yes, a red ball isn't yellow, therefore god exists ;)

[1Creationist]

Your logic is a little amiss. You see carbon dating things that also have a historical account is not the same as we have historical accounts of the artifact in question and therefore are just confirming a proposed date.

The use of carbon dating to confirm millions or billions of years is based upon the assumption that the way it is now is the way it has always been. It has to be assumed that decay rates have always been constent and that atmospheric conditions and other factors have not played

[lawilson200]

Ding Dong, Moron budges into an old entry!

I think you confirmed my old entry. This fascination YEC nutballs have with radiocarbon dating is really funny.

Before you make yourself look like an idiot again, radiocarbon dating works only on organic materials, with an upper limit of 40K. Radiometric dating measures decay rate from parent to daughter isotopes. It is from this where long ages are found. C14 works on a different principle and the science is now over 100 years old. Moron!

[1Creationist]

Attacks on character and intelligence are typical of those with nothing to back up their belief.

Carbon dating is a science that is was discovered by William Libby and his colleges in 1949, so by my calculation that is a science of only 59 years, trying to understand the decay rates of atoms that can have half life's from 5000 years and up. So you see you rest your eternal soul on a science that man knows less than one percent of.

May God bless you.

[lawilson200]

Thank you for proving your ignorance. Attacks are justified when morons keep repeating the same BS over and over again.

If you learned enough when to discover when C14 was developed, then you should had bothered to learn the difference between RADIOMETRIC dating and RADIOCARBON dating. RADIOMETRIC dating was first applied 100 years ago. So quite being stupid!

If evolution is a "belief" then gravity must also be a "belief." Which I can choose to ignore. Moron!

[sweetbilly]

Well, we can prove gravity is a fact, just throw an evolutionist off a building ...the first pig that flies proves the "law" gravity wrong. Care to show us any "laws" in the world of evolution that proves evolution is a fact and can "NOT" be seen to support another theory?

[sweetbilly]

See, i like to call this the problem of "process linkage" No process can be linked to evolution because none actually exists. Gravity is a law, evolution is a theory, supported only by viewpoint. So please save us your stupid syllogisms, the process of defining gravity has nothing to do with evolution ...except in your feeble mind. Evolution is about as scientifically derived as is creationism is ...and that's the facts of the matter.

[lawilson200]

Evolution is the changes in allelelic frequency through natural selection and genetic drift.

You are already starting the conversation on the wrong foot. Care to revise your statement?

[sweetbilly]

Why you gonna "ABUSE" me if i don't fall in line with you and jump off the cliff with the rest of the lemmings?

Well show me this genetic drift, prove it's even a scientific possibility. The process of genetic translation and transcription doesn't allow for any changes. And as of this date "NO ONE" has ever proven that's even a possibility. Genetic malformations "ALWAYS" end in death for the organism.

[lawilson200]

Once again you present another falsehol, as recently demonstrated by the recent dicovery of a new species of lizards found on an Itallian island. Here is a prime example of genetic isolation, where reproduction from parent species to daughter species resulted to a point where the new species is incapable of reproducing with the parent species and this is by definition is a new species.

You chose to ignore this of course, because it takes away from your magic tricks.

[sweetbilly]

Thanks for making my point for me, you've produced a new species that cannot reproduce itself. We've know about this for a long time, see donkeys have the same problem, once you mate a horse and a mule you get a donkey, and infertile animal. So explain to be how you introduce new genetic material, making an animal infertile, and yet propagate a whole NEW species? See mules begat mules, people begat people, monkey's begat monkey's, and lizards begat lizards. No magic tricks just facts.

[lawilson200]

Them what is the problem? The example I gave is one of many on how evolution functions and functions quite well over the past 2.5 gya. The change of allelic frequency through natural selection and genetic drift. That is evolution!

[lawilson200]

Sweetbilly-I was recently reading a post in regards to Snellings lecture at the recent ICC. In it, he admitted that one reason why scientists treat YECers claims with a degree of hostillity because the YEC argument was bad from the outset.

Do you care to make a specific claim, or do I get to abuse you also?

[sweetbilly]

I can't help it if you can't stand under the pressure, but you should certainly refrain from making inaccurate claims if you don't want to have to defend them.

No, todays scientists treat creationists they way they do is because they are bigoted premadonnas who can't see the failings in their own "pseudosciences" and hate being handed their asses in these discussion when they quote themselves in the discussions.

[lawilson200]

Sweetbilly, Snelling is your guy. During his lecture he admits that after 50 years since Genesis Flood, YEC theory has produced actually very little which is very useful or comes remotely close to seriously challenge the ToE or the host of associated scientific theories.

Perhaps AiG is already reconsidering Snellings employment. Heaven forbid a YEC actually admits when real scientists have known all along, YEC arguments are crap!

[sweetbilly]

Very little huh? I don't suppose you are familiar with the Colorado National Monument, it's a testament to the flood. More than one mile of "missing" strata; the deepest Canyons on earth filled with mudrocks; water that must have flowed uphill; thousand of dinosaur bones found all within the dinosaur triangle (on the highest point on the continent at that time) which is where i would go during a flood. And yet not "one" evolutionist can explain any of these problems. Tisk tisk,

[lawilson200]

I actually visited Colorado National Monuement and what you say is crap. I find it rather remarkable for those who claim that the world was covered by a flood, actually ignore the Channel Scabland of Eastern Washington, where all sides would agree that this area was indeed carved by a largescale flood. But that is a problem, because floods are more destructive then constructive, removing more then it gives back and when it does, it is only because the water is slack. Nice try.

[sweetbilly]

What i say is "crap", is that all you have to say? You aren't going to try and prove otherwise with some sort of mumbo jumbo, pseudo-scientifically derived facts, that are skewed to justify a particular view point? Well gee how shall i counter that argument?!?! DoH! I didn't try, i succeeded. Floods are both destructive and constructive at the same time, every geologist understands that.

[lawilson200]

Your description of the Colorado National Monument is crap. The Morrison Formation, Wanakah Formation, Entrada Formation, Kayenta Formation are not indicative of anything remotely close to flood like conditions. If you want to make a case, then don't generalized.

[sweetbilly]

And you would know that by what ...you watched the discovery channel once or something? Creationists aren't the ones having trouble with making their theory of how that formation formed fit the evidence. My description is dead on ...especially seeing as how any work you can quote i was a part of DoH!

[lawilson200]

Sweetbilly! Where have been hiding! I thought for awhile you a typical cut and run nutball.

I see an effort to be insulting in your comment, but it is pretty weak. And as for you claim of being "dead on," you're not.

The Wanakah Formation is quite indicative of being a river delta system, which does nothing to lend support to YEC claims of a global flood.

This is one of many problems YECers face as they attempt to shoe horn geology into a 371 days.

[sweetbilly]

Shoe horn it into 371 days? Doesn't look like they've had too much of a problem achieving that, seeing as how that's what actually happened.

Your confusion is thinking evolution has been proven. It hasn't and never will be, because it didn't happen. You are deluding yourself.

[lawilson200]

Let me ask you something. My favorite geologic feature is the Columbia River Basalt formation, which covers much of Oregon, Washington and Idaho. The walls of the Columbia Gorge are lined by the CRB and the CRB make up much of the Northern Oregon Coast.

Now, if this feature was laid down during the "flood," I would expect most (if not all) to be composed of pillow basalts. But, this is not the case. Instead you columnar jointing which is expected from surface flows. How did it form?

[sweetbilly]

I agree, the bigotry in the scientific fields are at an all time high. In fact, hatred towards Christians and Jews are at all all time high ...JUST AS THE BIBLE SAID IT WOULD BE. But that isn't a testament to your infallibility or superiority in the world of science. In fact it's quite the opposite, it shows bigotry beyond reason. It shows this is going to be an uphill battle to get the "REAL" scientific facts out to the general public.

[lawilson200]

sweetbilly-Thanks for demonstrating once again that creationism has little interest with advancing scientific truths, but instead serves as a form of religious apologestics, promoting a very bad theology. It is this reason YEC science is ignored.

[sweetbilly]

Hey creationists aren't the ones who are afraid to debate the issues in public. We discuss scientific "FACTS" and you bring up scientific hyperbole and present it as though it is fact ...like your little lizard example. PFFT .....Different species interbreeding LMAO!! We aren't discussing science fiction, we're discussing science. So either stick to the science or don't. But you know darn well different species can not interbreed.

[lawilson200]

I like scientific facts, present one.

[sweetbilly]

Ok hows this: ht-t-p://w-w-w(dot)icr(dot)org­/index.php?module=articles&act­ion=view&ID=405

However, if that's not good enough for you lets just wait to see God move on this earth himself ...be ready to see a war with Russia soon. Revelations: "The Bear and the Eagle will fight" (The united states and Russia) Just know when you see the missiles fly i found my redemption and you found your condemnation atheist. We'll see what you believe then... I guarantee you i'll have the last laugh.

[lawilson200]

Is that the best you can do? A referrence to an Impact article? You are going to need to do better then that.

But if that is too hard. In Central Oregon, you will find the Sheep Rock Unit of the John Day Formation. This region has been impacted by many volcanic eruptions, which has left preserved many early mammals. Above the JDF is the CRB. Please place this feature in context of the flood.

[sweetbilly]

Like i said, i don't care!! I don't have to prove crap when I'm watching the book of revelations happening right before my eyes. Everything, from the economic problems, to 9/11, to the upcoming war with Russia, to the current war in Iraq, was recorded in the bible. Your problem is you talk too much and don't listen quite enough. Sorry there's just nothing i can do for you, so i don't care to try, all you're interested in doing is stirring up the turds.

[lawilson200]

Now you want to talk about theology? You are confusing me.

Okay, where is the word "rapture" in scripture?

[sweetbilly]

Oh i see, is that like evolutionists explaining the "dinosaur triangle" in Utah and Colorado? ...i suppose finding "ALL" the known dinosaurs in existence present "ONLY" on one or two hills around the entire earth was a brilliant piece of evolutionary science. No, they aren't all on one or two hills at death because of a global flood LMAO You're a joke, and so is your evolutionary beliefs.

[lawilson200]

Sweetbilly, I am being very patient with you, but please make a coherent sentence.

What are you talking about?

Utah and Colorado are great places to find dino fossils, but they are hardly the only places. The real challenge you face (it you want to make a convincing argument) is to present evidence pointing to dino-human co-habitation. And I mean actual evidence. Paluxy Footprints, Ica Stones and Amerrillo Figerrines are documented fakes.

[kryptemonic]

sweetbilly, it is believed that the great flood was just the flooding of the Persian gulf, I believe around ten thousand years ago, but I'm not sure on the exact time.

Also, if you have a long enough book that says enough stuff in a weird enough way, you could predict almost anything. Also, lets say it is right, what if the Eagle and the Bear fighting was just Rome vs the Germans living around Berlin? A lot of crap is long past, like emporer Nero was the antichrist, blablabla...

[sweetbilly]

So please don't present something no one has ever seen in history and can not be reproduced factually in a laboratory as scientific fact. You can't breed horses and donkeys and produce a fertile mule. You, ding dong, are presenting two "LIZARDS" to the people as though they are different species. You are doing nothing less than what dog breeders do every day. DoH!

[lawilson200]

I asked for you to present a scientific fact, but instead you gave me gibberish. Care to try again.

[sweetbilly]

No, actually i don't think i care to try again, i told you the truth, if all you care to do is argue I'm not going to waste my time on you, you talk too much ...like i said, wait, it's coming, very soon. I guarantee you will see it in your life. You want proof of gods existence so badly just have a little more patients you'll get to see it for yourself. In fact, i won't say we won't see another president elected ...but who knows.

[lawilson200]

I thought you wanted to talk about scientific facts.

You did write earlier, "We discuss scientific "FACTS" and you bring up scientific hyperbole and present it as though it is fact."

Okay, I am presenting you with scientific facts, obtained from my years of studying the CRB and volcanism of Eastern Oregon. Now, you are cutting and running? Or, are you over your head already.

[biggbaddjohn]

i still haven't figured out why you go about trolling as you do. sure, your pretty smart, but you a major freaking troll. Why don't you go debate a real scientists.

You bully folks and try to make yourself out to be such a big man. Your just a small minded little troll. does it give you pleasure to be a jack ass bully ??

Maybe people would actually listen to what you have to say if you weren't such a horses ass.

Why can't you just try to be nice? Perhaps you have not evolved that far yet

[lawilson200]

I am only a troll when it is early morning and I still haven't had my morning latte.

[sweetbilly]

Yes, I'll comment for him, let me help you clear your misunderstanding of carbon dating up. It depends on the "method" of dating. The science for all intensive purposes is solid, when you don't prepare the slides before hand the dates can be accurate, so long as you know the environment etc... Which should tell you why the evo's must "prepare" the slides before dating. But seeing as how all the parameters of the science isn't really known, it's a very fallible process.

[lawilson200]

sweetbilly-Your claim does not relate to the central point. Radiocarbon dating is not used for determine ages of rcoks. As you admit, the science for radiocarbon dating is "for all intensive purpose" is solid" and used regularly in archeaology, including biblical archeaology.

Care does need to be shown for the preperation of any sample, or else you will obtain flawed results. But like any other scientific tool, when used correctly, it will present reliable results.

[sweetbilly]

Sure it does, every method is exactly the same, carbon dating, thorium dating, luminescence dating etc... and yes carbon dating can be used for dating rocks, you can date the deposition etc..

Actually care for preparation is the central theme in "ALL" dating processes, even touching the sample will yield skewed results. Heat in any form will skew the results. Even sunlight. NO dating technique is reliable. There are too many factors in radiocarbon dating which are not known.

[lawilson200]

Wrong!  Tell me something, how do you get carbon in an inorganic compound? This answer should be interesting.