@phvalue323 echart tolle is saying that the self is devine. ken knows more, much more but yet echart is on oprah. the spirit allways works subliminaly
I am sorry to have to dismantle your pseudo-psichologist attitude, but the behaviour you are talking about comes from his being very, very sick. He' s been so for the last, like, ten years, maybe more, and he' s actually close to die right now.
Wilber is amazing! We all need something unique to us at each time and he does a wonderful job of explaining the why and how of compassion. An engaged Buddhism is what I get out of it. Really enjoy his book The Simple Feeling of Being.
I am just at the begining of my dedicated spiritual awakening and it makes me sad to see how some people can see enlightened beings and still not trust them. What abuses we have all endured:-(
Glummer, the AZTA tried to stop Merzel teaching years ago, not only did he rip off ZCLA funds and abuse several students there, one of the students he abused commited suicide. You haven't heard it because he tried to keep it well buried. Fortunately some of us, including Aitken Roshi and others have worked over many years to bring the truth to light and expose a man who has serially abused his students financially and sexually. He had not been a real Zen teacher for many years.
the problem is not who is genpo doing, but that he is a fraud and uses dangerous techniques foolishly. I see him as an threat to his students and Zen community.
@zenmonkgenryu I'm going to assume you've heard more about Genpo than I have? All I've heard is about the accusation in 1990 of sexual misconduct with a successor. The comment you posted said "Caught diddling his students again and again"? Like he's a child molestor, repeat offender? I haven't heard of any of that.
You're not just another one of those people who looked to genpo as an idol and then felt stupid when he made a mistake so know you have to call him a "fraud", are you?
This guy has no idea what he's talking about, I can tell five fucking seconds in. I doubt he's ever practiced real Zen. And Genpo... don't even fucking get me started.
@Zenstudent105 You sound like quite the "Zenstudent" with your judgements and your "fucking" language. One thing I do know about meditations is there is no "real" meditation.
Zen is just a tradition based around the same philosophies of enlightenment. The first thing that will stop you from entering Zen is labeling and judging things.
@Gluumer Truly, and I'm sorry for the language. But my feelings about this guy being a fraud stay the same. You don't have to agree, but they sound an awful lot like the fluffy stuff that pads out self-help books.
@Zenstudent105 Not sure how much you know about Ken wilber, but the amount of time and effort he's put into his work, ranging from spirituality to philosophy, I find it unlikely that he is a "fraud". Look more into him before you make a conclusion.
The swearing really doesn't offend me much, it just seemed contradictary to your stance of knowing some "real" truth to enlightenment. There are many paths, your way isn't the only way. The ego is what tries to judge and feel superior to others.
@Gluumer That's the thing, I don't claim to know anything more than you. Even if I was enlightened, and I'm not sayin I am, my teacher said that enlightenment is like a corporation, but you don't treat the CEO any differently than you do the janitors. : ) But something about this guy puts me badly on edge--intuitively maybe. And that's just me, so I think he's hiding something.
Some judgment is good, tho. It keeps you safe. Sorry if I offended, I can be loud about it. ; )
@Zenstudent105 He's hiding something? Of course he is... we all do. The unconscious is a sea of secrets and dark desires. You people keep forgetting that he is a human being. Not a deity. Just because he wrote a few books and is in the public eye doesn't mean he is "special." That says nothing about the relevance of his ideas which are bigger than the man. Moral value judgements of the Blue meme obviously hold us back more than ever.
@Aurelius27x Can we not just accept people for what they are... flawed, imperfect and continue a dialogue where we can move forward together? We have such a hangup to try and find some impeccable deity of a man to follow. If Christ or Buddha were born today I can only imagine the attempts to try to scrutinize every step they take in attempts to debunk them. Project less, assimilate more, people. They are all another version of yourself and have something to teach you.
@Aurelius27x Not what I mean at all. I know he's not special. I know I'm not special. I'm saying his teachings are bull shit and so is the fact that he charges exorbitant amounts for his enlightening experiences. That's wrong and it cheats people. And the people in that audience are cheating themselves by desperately trying to buy into this idea that enlightenment is a one-time experience. It's not. It's a continuing process and you can't get it by having this guy lay hands on you or whatever.
@Zenstudent105 His teachings are bullshit? I don't hear him "teach" anything, only regurgitating what Buddhist practitioners for eons have been saying from his own experience. Genpo Roshi has remarkably similar terminology due to their close associations no doubt. But they haven't done anything but inspire me to persist in my own Buddhist practice with their contemporary spin. But they're trying something, to acclimate an awakening of sorts for the time and culture of the West.
@Zenstudent105 The great irony is the puritans of Buddhist schools cling to their zafus and mantras as if they are THE only way. As if the traditions themselves don't evolve and change along with the terminology. You know how long it took for several divisions, interpretations of the original message of the historical Buddha and Jesus Christ to take place? No more than a century or two. Impermanence my friend. Your tradition is not exempt from change.
@Aurelius27x I'm not saying they are. I'm saying this guy is charging people a huge amount for fake enlightenment. And I'm not part of any tradition. There is no "one" way, I know, but this guy isn't teaching a real way. He's as phony as the guys who sell magic weight-loss pills and say you can drop pounds of fat for doing nothing. There are wrong ways to go whether you like it or not and listening to a guy who wants you to PAY for enlightenment is one of them.
@Zenstudent105 But just because he's not wearing the communist flag as a cape and ripping on capitilism 24/7 doesn't mean he's really out to get you. Info is info, it's up to us to do what we will is right with it. We should be grateful that there is so much spiritual material avaliable online and even on youtube(though censored from time 2 time). I don't agree with capitilism myself at all either, but it doesn't justify me to turn my country into a welfare state.
@MrCuntyballs2U wow, for someone who is so passionately disinterested in integral theory, you sure have been spending a lot of time lately commenting on almost every single video out there.
I think the single biggest fallacy promoted by eastern traditions is this idea that conscious is primary to existence. Conscious is not primary, it is emergent. There is no conscious seat that awakens in the human mind, but new emergent consciousness that emerges, grows, and supersedes earlier consciousness.
@j0hnwi11iams "i-Amness" is an artifact of the human mind creating continuity from memory, not an essential principle. It is essential to understand how deeply our brains shape experience in counter intuitive ways. One of the hardest to expose is the vast confirmation bias built into all mental structure.
@j0hnwi11iams Sounds assertive... Until you actually think what you're saying that is. How is dead matter, neurons firing electrical impulses form things such as consciousness, experience? What does the experience come to? You can keep saying it's emergent, but until you actually explain how and why this computer like brain chatter forms these things, the hypothesis is not more credible than the "eastern" tradition.
@Nacluw The human consciousness can not contain that much information about itself. There is also a difference between emergence and determinism which I don't think you appreciate. Self-organization is emergent but non-deterministic. Eastern tradition posits the precedence of conscious and then has to use evolution to explain its development, making consciousness a necessary product and direction of evolution. Evolution has no necessary direction. Evolution is self organization and spontaneous.
@j0hnwi11iams There's also a paradox with that hypotheses by the way. If consciousness was to be emergent from the brain chatter, it wouldn't have qualities of free will. That means you, who are aware of these words, wouldn't have the freedom to example, reply or not to this message. Because something that is emergent of the brain activity itself, cannot affect the brain activity. Yet it was a choise desided by me, as consciousness, to reply to your message.
So it seems like Kens energy is so strong he affects you even through the video. This is great stuff, I like the way he describes the Iamness and its relation to the ever changing variables that we identify with. So identification seems to be the element that is the only thing that is not attached to iamness... the constant. DEEEeeppppppo!
Don't need (or want) anymore respect, have way too much.
It's why I poke fun at these guys. Like politics is showbiz for the ugly, Pop philosophers are just snake oil peddlers, con artistry instead of real art. Ergo, easy targets.
Nothing so good for instant gratification as the cheap shot.
Helps me keep in touch with my self-deification.
The difference between me and this clown is I do it for free.
'Modules'? 'Three body workout'? What a crock of the most succulent pseudo-spiritual shit. I know, I'll shave my dome, get some expensive thin-framed spectacles and cynically seduce a bunch of brainless rich tarts with my silver-spoked tongue. Hell, I'd rather get my canned wisdom fr. watching "Friends" than listen to this group ego-stroke. Lorrrd have mercy! Another multi-millonaire 'Hubbard' in the making, no lie.. watch out for this one, he's hungry, oh yeah..
Check again. I mean check the literature and the substance behind it. Closed mind. Look who has got one (not rhetirical). Without knowing what the terms mean, the author kind of intended for you to react in this way, or rather he can't define everything to you personally, especially if the audience in the video know the meaning of the terms, as do I. It is a kind of developmental psychology. Wikipedia Ken Wilber or phail - pretty much my message to you. Nothing personal.
Look into this more deeply. You would be insulting your intelligence and that of the ideas and the presenter of said ideas in question if you were not to.
..Only by repeatedly slapping my incredible / flaccid platinium-mink genitals w. a live haddock, did I survive to the end of this stale, self-serving video_presentation.. -and (like my swollen sack) it stank even worse! (And no I'm not being 'rhetirical' either.) Anyone who thinks this blatant, money-grabbing snake-oil salesman is somehow remotely 'spiritual' needs to run a MF'ing checkedy-check. "Now. Now. Now. The I-amness that is non-dual, zoom zoom zoom, dollar hollar dollar" - Henry Swanson
Uh yeah. I dislike his quasi-materialism as much as you do. It just so happens that money is rather practical. He has been meditating more than 30 years daily, not just zazen. You won't read any of his books because you are closed minded about anything he might have to say on spiritual and developmental subjects.(?) This video is about a certain realization common to many spiritual traditions - I AM. But not the same kind of I, nor the same kind of am that people Think of. That's SIMPLY said.
No, I don't read Dear Guru Ken - but then I don't read vampire novels either. Anyone who hasn't undergone radical brain surgery to remove their Irony Gland can tell at a glance this plastic video is so full of FAKE that the home shopping channel seems positively buddhistic in comparison. "Next up Oprah, we have Ken's toenails - $4.19 (+ postage). Gnaw daily while driving to your yoga class for instant TV-Enlightenment." Ooh, where's my credit card!?? I AM: AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING THIS SHIT
The integral system of including training in Spirit, mind, body, and shadow seems to be complete and necessary. If we develop without seeing our shadow watch out.
sorry - my english is not very good, so i dont understand what he´s saying fully!
But to includ training in spirit, mind, body an shadow.
How do you do that? Can you give an example for each one of them - an example to train each of them? An what is the shadow? How can i finde out, if iam developing without seeing my shadow?
Wilber is also drinking Perrier bottled water which comes with quite a lot Grey energy there. The Integral Institute integrates elements of the industrial lifestyles without overstating them.
oh, I am sorry. "Grey" refers to the not declared amount of physical and chemical energy that went into the processes of storage and transportation of an end product. The term is used in sustainability studies, mostly lower right quadrant.
In SD locality of production is an important aspect of red.
Clearly, as your posts are full of errors - embarrassingly so. You must be here to flame and aren't really paying attention. You thought a comment to KosmicCitizen's post referred to yours! I'm not sure what I wasn't "right" about (except, perhaps, your good intentions) but this doesn't reflect what I think or actually wrote. It'd take several posts to untangle this convoluted mess, but it's probably not worth the effort, as you probably get off on angering those you think aren't in on the joke.
You are assuming so much here that it's difficult to have a meaningful dialogue, including about that which I assume (or not). You don't even know if I'm a "Ken Wilbur [sic] fan." If you think I'm a special case or sub-par (wherever you set it) in intelligence, originally, knowledge, etc. that's your prerogative. Likewise about being on an "ego trip." It's irrelevant whether my "heavy words" (whichever those were) impressed you. I wonder if you actually take this conversation seriously or not.
You are right for once. No, I am not taking this conversation seriously. I don't think there is anything enlightening or worthy to be taken seriously here in our little verbal fling, (either from you or me) apart from you trying to impress me (as admitted by you - in your own words) with your borrowed ideas.
I don't recall any claim in this video about immortality (not having to "finally die off"). And of course money doesn't buy happiness, but that's a cliche. It certainly can buy things that make you happy. Why do think people pay for drugs? For "fake" bliss? Now, if he goes out of business, then maybe he offers fake bliss. But it's irrelevant to distinguish b/w a "real" and "fake" bliss if he does retain loyal consumers. There must be at least a secondary gain.
As you rightly point out, I do not recall any claim to that effect either (regarding not having to "finally die off" by Wilbur).
I was merely trying to prevent any misguided souls/suckers from enrolling on one of Wilburs exorbitantly priced seminars, which would only manage to en-lighten our wallets.
Your intention seems fine, if condescending in how it comes off. But those already attracted to KW will likely ignore or dismiss your skepticism, which comes off as cynicism, especially if they feel insulted by your comments. I'd say that people should be presented with relevant (and objective) info on his programs, and data from outcome studies (if any exist) so that they're making an informed choice before dishing out the cash. A money-back guarantee for unhappy customers wouldn't hurt either.
Philosophies like this make a distinction between "pain" and "suffering." The former is unavoidable, and is part of the ebb and flow of experience. "Suffering", on the other hand, is understood to involve all of our existential angst and psychological/spiritual misery. The Stoics would say suffering comes from "false judgments" - the Advaitan would say any essential identification with experience is false. Both point to the origin of suffering. Pain is indifferent. It happens.
Good point. I would add that in English, "pain" usually has a physical connotation. "Suffering" can be both physical and psychological. But that word has its own religious history in Judeo-Christianity - something that can even be positive! Dukkha is a different ballgame - closer to "tension," "displacement," "stress," "dis-ease," "conflict," "dissatisfaction," etc. But for beginners, pain and/or suffering is sufficient, I suppose.
Devoid of words? Is there another method of communicating on Youtube forums? I'd like to know how you'd make that assessment of my intelligence, without words that is. Either you'd have to personally observe my nonverbal behavior, or somehow psychically sense my vibrations in the great aether. If you try the former, you'd have to know me already or be a stalker (please don't). If the latter, hey, good luck. Let me know that results : )
I am afraid my tastes are far more refined when it comes to stalking.
Regarding my comment on 'Devoid of words' what I was trying to convey was that it is easy for anyone to drop a few heavy words or borrowed ideas in a comment and sound Intelligent. How many useful original ideas have you had in your lifetime? Even the very words used here are learned? Most of us are Dwarfs standing on the shoulders of Giants - and on an ego trip with words.
what i find fundamentally disconcerting about " Kens" ramblings is his quintessential (good guy) attempt to say something profound. While staying just vague enough to seem perspicacious. His dizzying loop of light & shadows gives the illusion of substance.
The rigor is in his books. Most of his Utube vids don't say a lot. I am no fan of pseudo-profundity either, it's simply bad philosophy. But some clips do have something about Buddhism, consciousness, etc, that is quite relevant to those who are interested, but are beginners. Plus this is a seminar, we're missing a lot to put it in context, such as experiential exercises (as many of us can't afford these fancy events).
You are completely right. Actually vague is the right word, because there is no real realization behind it, Its making gullible people think they are listening to something profound, they nod their heads and say wow yeah how amazing. He told them they are God and that he is God and they think yeah that's right, very profound, I always knew that, but now he told me, and and then God goes home the next day back to work, for some employer working his but off. Illusion sells.
In duality we have to deal with language what to me Ken is pointing to is timeless and without words, it is energy beyond concepts and so to hear these words as pointers may take you into what experience he is sharing.
The intellect although powerful in this instance can only indicate a shadow of the illumination he refers to. Out of your own eyes this self sees.
Hehe, yeah different target group. But I've noticed a lot of people intrerested in the venusian arts seem to have some sort of attraction to spiritual matters, whether it's vipassana meditation or whatever.
Focus on the messages rather than the messengers. The simplest are the closest to the source. You can be loved by the whole world but that won't make you happy. It is love coming out of you that makes you happy. Governments can only affect your senses not your sense! Your life is a mirror, wipe the dust off. There are many messengers but the same source is behind them all. More people argue over the message than put it to use, let's change that. Love accepts all.
this guy is a CULT LEADER!! this is as bad as scientology, he's draining you of all your money! wisdom doesn't cost money, sri ramana maharshi's teachings are all free on his website, you can download all his books for free. this guy is a liar and he's TAKING YOUR MONEY.
look up Dennis Genpo Merzel (Genpo Roshi) and his critics, and also the scam that is "Big Mind" and then decide if you want to waste your money filling his pockets. if you want an enlightening experience, read the dhamapada, the bhagavad gita, the vedas, upanishads, sutras... don't waste your time having this guy 'interpret' it for you, go to the source.
Did you ever think that some people need it opened a little more for them in order to explore it? Some people can't understand it straight from the source.
Blah, blah, blah. You're in your head. You only understand words; you don't understand anything that is beyond words. That's fine. Perhaps you will wake up one day and realize the map is not the terrritory. The menu is not the meal. It is possible that you will develop the cognitive structures necessary to grasp aspects of reality and your experience that are not abstractions/concepts. Growth and evolution are natural and spontaneous unless there is a psychological or epistemological barrier....
But some have gone to the source(s) and do interpret it in the same way as KW. Big mind - I don't know how original that term is, but as I see it, it's not out of place w/ Advaita, Dzogchen, or Yogachara. I would add that KW fans should at least consult some the texts that he references/cites in his books, and not just take his word for it, as he's been known to get things wrong.
He has never struck me as a "liar," but I do agree that you don't need to spend money on ANY of this. Sri Ramana Maharishi, as far as I know, didn't charge money for his teachings, which lends him an air of legitimacy.
100% material because we can not apply the logic of a bucket getting empty unto a Truth so high that it eclipses the comprehension of our insignificant minds. God is a person with uncountable energies, oneness or emptiness just some of them, we can go to any of them but because we are individual souls by nature full of bliss and eternal we soon find our way back after realising that we can not be happy there why? because we r eternally individuals the idea of becoming God or being God is foolish
God is not a person! God is impersonal. Brahman or the unmanifest reality is the only reality. Everything else is only a projection. Just like table, chair, desk are all composed of wood, so also everyting 'material' comes from the unmanifest which is Brahman. Only the deluded think that God will do something personal for them.
Impersonal: to not be person-like? What constitutes this so-called "person-like"-ness? Who gets to dictate what will constitute "person-like-ness"? ONLY a projection. Why "only"? Since you perceive a projection, the projection is clearly infiltrating your mind. Since it is capable of infiltrating your mind, is it still "only" a projection? Then to what, pray tell, could one not apply the label "only"?
That's a sankhya interpretation. I believe also that's how Ramanuja conceived of Vedanta. But not Shankaracharya. What if we're not "eternally individuals"? What if our minds are not "insignificant," but just have limitations in certain contexts? Indeed, maybe the term "God" really is redundant - the idea of a singular being, existing as A being. Instead of an empty bucket, consider sunlight with no where to land, that is - consciousness unbound. Or think of the origin of the word "nirvana."
still without the sun there is no sunshine. we are individual now and have been so in the past and in the future we will be individuals. It is exactly because of this fact that not being individual is redundant. Krishna is The Supreme Individual and even so many complete parts emerge from Him he always remains the complete Absolute whole He never diminishes, the empty bucket theory is material, this bucket is never empty
And w/o hydrogen converting into helium, the sun has no heat. And w/o subatomic nuclear reactions, none of that is possible. And the rabbit hole goes deeper. I understand that you are a Vaishnava and that's your path to salvation. I never disparaged that. But you are preaching, distorting another religion, and not having a dialogue. I'm not a monotheist. And I have no idea what you mean by the "empty bucket" theory. This clip never mentions it, nor any Buddhist writing I've ever come across.
I maintain that everyone who says that we are God You are God I am God, has not yet realised the Absolute Truth which is personal. Absolute Truth means that even so many emanations spring from The AT, the AT never becomes less or empty, if it was it could not be called Absolute. He may has expanded Himself into many, this means we r His eternal parts and parcels, He is still God, otherwise the term God Would be redundant. The idea thatGod has become many and lost his own status is 100% material
We communicate using multiple languages; Body language, tone of voice, words. Someone of high spiritual achievement will communicate their joyful disposition via all three.
Cut out the word content of KW's communication and we see an uncomfortably writhing, twisting organism with a rigid smirk, whose tone of voice is robotic; seemingly devoid of sensitivity. Since 55% of communication is body language, 38% is tone of voice, and 7% is words, what is this guy actually saying about his practice?
Erime, If you actually turn off the sound and watch, it's not as bad as you suggest. Also, you should cut him some slack, considering the intensely weird physical problems he's been dealing with these past several years. Good points, otherwise.
Wasn't aware of his weird problems - are they linked to practice?
You're right, it isn't as bad I suggest, but if you turn the sound on and see at what point he 1st squirms (between 1:30 and 1:45) his body language, and even his tone of voice communicates something which appears very different from the words - why does he feel so uncomfortable here? At 3:17 there is another squirm when he talks about the exercise - makes me think: "No thanks!". It is as if creepy insects are all over his body.
What the hell, hes giving a presentation to a ton of people about some really deep intricate stuff that quite frequently upsets a lot of people, of course hes going to feel somewhat uncomfortable, it isn't an easy thing to do you know.
Maybe it could be easy if one was certain that one was doing a positive thing - he needs to communicate the positivity behind what he is saying and behind what he wants people to do. Thich Naht Hanh does this with ease, and appears relaxed, joyful, and comfortable with himself. Wilber's "wierd problems" I have discovered are a form of CFIDS; a collection of symptoms that can individually be related to psychomatic problems. Under hypnosis blisters can be created, skin colouration affected, etc.
"he uses electrodes to measure brain states during meditation"
A man who proposes that He is God, who says that everything is one, then goes and measures his brain state, is not God and certainly not one with everything, because he ought to be all-knowing
"the ever present god-head, which you are" for example, it sounds nice, its what people like to hear. It gives those who are spiritually in ignorance and who are looking for something, a certain sense of spirituality, which is in fact based on illusion.
I agree on the part about what people like to hear, but don't shoot the messenger. There are people who hear those words in truth, not from there own ego. Why not let the egocentric be responsible for themselves? They will interpret from their level through their filter - that's not Ken Wilber's fault - that's just the way it is.
Thats just it, it people interpret according to their own perception, which can be dangerous.If everything is one, then you can do whatever you like, you can kill steal cheat and do anything under the sun, but because everything is one, it makes no difference. Its a dangerous philosophy
Thats just it, it people interpret according to their own perception, which can be dangerous.If everything is one, then you can do whatever you like, you can kill steal cheat and do anything under the sun, but because everything is one, it makes no difference. Its a dangerous philosophy
*You re describing "absolute truth" where there is nothing arising, nothing to fear or defend against, nothing to love or hate, pure emptiness. There IS no killing, or stealing or cheating from that perspective because there is nothing arising. But, there's relative truth, my friend. We also exist in this physical realm, this gross body, where things are relative to each other. This duality is a theme is every tradition. If there is danger, it lies in confusing the two...
pure emptiness may be your desire and it arrives out of deep frustration with this material world,but there is also another world where all those aspects you dislike, hate, killing, stealing e...g. are absent and pure love is everywhere. people want nothingness or emptiness because of disappointment, but our inner nature will soon become totally bored with this and begin seeking again, seeking for what? Pure spiritual love for the Absolute, which is God Himself
But in Buddhism, emptiness is not separate from this "inner nature." The Buddha describes it as empty of disturbance, for example, and empty of falsehood. It's a mode of perception, truth, and integrity all in one. You don't get "bored" with total freedom! There is no lack of love, because consciousness w/o obstruction does not seek or lack. Advaita puts it in positive terms as SatChitAnanda. Unconditioned mind is unconditional in every sense, including love.
Simply chanting Hare Krishna with devotion transcends the stages of the minds unsteadiness, goes beyond intelligence and allows one to experience the self by direct perception, I the soul am full of sat cit ananda full of bliss knowledge and eternal. Brahman, every one of us, we are Brahman. There is no doubt about it. But by mistake,by illusion,I am thinking, "I am this body." So first of all one has to understand that aham brahmasmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this body." That is the beginning.
How do you know chanting something other than "Hare Krishna" (other than faith alone) wouldn't bring that to you? And if you are not your body, but are truly Brahman, then that pretty much negates individuality as that word is normally used. If the body is a mere instrument or vehicle of a more powerful being, that's technically servitude/slavery. While those words have negative connotations, I'm not trying to slander, as some monotheists actually call themselves such in relation to their god.
For us "not the body means we are individual spiritual souls" we belief in inconceivable and simultaneous oneness and difference in the same time. One with and different from The Absolute in terms of One in "quality" and different in "quantity" Like the sunshine can not claim to be the sun, in the same time they are eternally connected. The physical body is not the self. the soul is that what animates the body and that is me, I am not this body
One can only become Krishna conscious via ..well Krishna. If others had the same experience they would all talk about Krishna, therefore they do not have the same experience.
ddj333 is right. This emptiness is aqually described as radiant with compassion. However, devarsi doesn't know what one taste of the great perfection means to buddhists. This godhead is the witness without the sense of wintessing and it is onenes of form and formlesness. Nonduality is the cause and condicion, or so it seems. There DOES exist the relative plain of suffering and the absolte transcendental reality that is 'out side' of form and time. Search for Nisargadatta Maharaj.
Like I said people want to experience nothingness or emptiness because of their disappointment with life and that is totally understandable. But to be happy we don't have to approach or try merging into those energies. All we have to understand is, that we are all individual spiritual souls and that we have an original relationship with God which is one of pure love & which we have forgotten over so many lifetimes. Life is meant to go back to our original relationship with God thats all.
While that may be trud, devarsi, I like to experience radiant bliss, because emptiness is the cause and condicion of which fulness arises. Emptiness and fulness/form are one.
when you please the Lord by chanting the Holy Names and surrender to Him with love and devotion then this sublime blissful condition arrives from beyond the scope of the mind and intelligence, it is not something that can be got by mental gymnastics meditation for peace or imagination. When God is pleased, then we become pleased, it can not manufactured by any material manipulation of the mind it simply comes from high above as a result of pleasing Lord Krishna
the bliss which arrives from emptiness and so called oneness is like the water in the footprint of a calf when compared with the ocean of transcendental bliss which arrives from pleasing Lord Krishna. This is declared by all the great sages which have experienced both.
Have you experienced it firsthand yourself? And are you sure it is not another form of escapism? Why lord Krishna? Why not Jesus? What is the difference betwen Lord Krishna and Christ? How can they both be right?
Krishna is God and Jesus is the son of God, both are right. Jesus said "from the rising of the sun to the sunset the Holy Name of my father shall be praised" the Greek words christos or cristo come originally from ancient Sanskrit and mean Krishna the all attractive, this is a fact. In engl speaking countries it becomes Christ in Germany Christus and so on and yes first hand experiences since 1976
eternal means no beginning no end, this is Krishna, He has no beginning and no end. Like the soul we do not know birth or death, this only applies to the material body our temporary covering. Because we identify with our temporary bodies we are under the impression that everything else also is temporary. Spiritual means anti material. The Lords form is 100% non material. Individual consciousness is the symptom of the soul, I me. There was never a time now or in the future, when we did not exist
What is the difference between believing in all this nonsense and/or believing in the Bible or the Quran or any other religious text for that matter?
Are they simply not beliefs and fantasies that we humans have created in our own tiny little minds to try and escape a reality that is traumatic sometimes?
Can our brains really cope with these cosmic questions without conjuring up nonsense?
After all we only discovered fire a few thousand years ago.
Philosophy... not necessaryiliy metaphysical. No need to believe what others tell. Experiment. Meditate. Involution and evolution are philosophical concepts, not articles of belief.
This is the kind of scientific proof you can have yourself, without having to depend on our dear scientists for validation. However you can not do this with the torchlight of your own mind, you have to find someone who can show you the Truth. Someone who is experiencing it moment for moment. The trick is to become 100% + sincere, then this person will appear, but are you sincere to such a high degree? if not, you will only meet others. Read the intro to my page.
I didn't know I was evading a question so I read it again. The difference is Kens philosophy is illusion ( we are god) and the other is truth (we are not God). I don't promote myself, only our philosophy and I state categorically that I can refer a seeker to a genuine spiritual master and that I am just a simple devotee. I hold seminars in my home town and pay for it myself, so why should I not sell ONE CD to be help financing this? No logic or sensibility in your last post at all
99.99% of the populace don't need any spiritual enlightenment. Their immediate needs are meeting day to day problems such as food, shelter and sanitation.
In some societies when all these needs are met and satisfied -after sometime- the mind gets bored and seeks other ways to satisfy itself. Having satisfied with basic needs the mind seeks a Utopia which does not exist... this is where Ken Wilbur and Krishna come in
I-Amness is not devine! what is behind it is devine!
smallpotatoes989 2 months ago
@smallpotatoes989 semantics, what you're saying is what he's saying precisely.
phvalue323 1 month ago
@phvalue323 echart tolle is saying that the self is devine. ken knows more, much more but yet echart is on oprah. the spirit allways works subliminaly
smallpotatoes989 1 month ago
@grijanderpeich79
I am sorry to have to dismantle your pseudo-psichologist attitude, but the behaviour you are talking about comes from his being very, very sick. He' s been so for the last, like, ten years, maybe more, and he' s actually close to die right now.
Get informed :)
femminiello 4 months ago
0:28 Isn't this really just the sickest sort of thing?
Look at the faces of those comprehensively deluded women.
Genpo is a horror story -- as events have conclusively demonstrated.
And Wilber couldn't see it? What does that tell you . . . about him?
greenrate 5 months ago
Wilber is amazing! We all need something unique to us at each time and he does a wonderful job of explaining the why and how of compassion. An engaged Buddhism is what I get out of it. Really enjoy his book The Simple Feeling of Being.
I am just at the begining of my dedicated spiritual awakening and it makes me sad to see how some people can see enlightened beings and still not trust them. What abuses we have all endured:-(
smorilon22 10 months ago
It's unfortunate Wilber associates himself with people like Merzel, makes me rethink his suggestions from now on hehe.
Zenboy23 11 months ago
Glummer, the AZTA tried to stop Merzel teaching years ago, not only did he rip off ZCLA funds and abuse several students there, one of the students he abused commited suicide. You haven't heard it because he tried to keep it well buried. Fortunately some of us, including Aitken Roshi and others have worked over many years to bring the truth to light and expose a man who has serially abused his students financially and sexually. He had not been a real Zen teacher for many years.
zenmonkgenryu 11 months ago
@zenmonkgenryu The more you know, I guess.
Gluumer 11 months ago
You can cheat on your wife.. but not your soul.. Isn't that a blessing Genpo
TheAfterLifeNow 11 months ago
Ken, you might want to reevaluate your opinions:
elephantjournalDOTcom/2011/02/disrobing-genpo--brad-warner/
4kassis 11 months ago 2
the problem is not who is genpo doing, but that he is a fraud and uses dangerous techniques foolishly. I see him as an threat to his students and Zen community.
vanderherring 11 months ago 4
Genpo is a fraud, who has been caught diddling his students again and again and has been forced to stop calling himself a Zen teacher.
zenmonkgenryu 11 months ago 3
@zenmonkgenryu I'm going to assume you've heard more about Genpo than I have? All I've heard is about the accusation in 1990 of sexual misconduct with a successor. The comment you posted said "Caught diddling his students again and again"? Like he's a child molestor, repeat offender? I haven't heard of any of that.
You're not just another one of those people who looked to genpo as an idol and then felt stupid when he made a mistake so know you have to call him a "fraud", are you?
Gluumer 11 months ago
This guy has no idea what he's talking about, I can tell five fucking seconds in. I doubt he's ever practiced real Zen. And Genpo... don't even fucking get me started.
Zenstudent105 11 months ago 2
@Zenstudent105 You sound like quite the "Zenstudent" with your judgements and your "fucking" language. One thing I do know about meditations is there is no "real" meditation.
Zen is just a tradition based around the same philosophies of enlightenment. The first thing that will stop you from entering Zen is labeling and judging things.
Gluumer 11 months ago
@Gluumer Truly, and I'm sorry for the language. But my feelings about this guy being a fraud stay the same. You don't have to agree, but they sound an awful lot like the fluffy stuff that pads out self-help books.
Zenstudent105 11 months ago
@Zenstudent105 Not sure how much you know about Ken wilber, but the amount of time and effort he's put into his work, ranging from spirituality to philosophy, I find it unlikely that he is a "fraud". Look more into him before you make a conclusion.
The swearing really doesn't offend me much, it just seemed contradictary to your stance of knowing some "real" truth to enlightenment. There are many paths, your way isn't the only way. The ego is what tries to judge and feel superior to others.
Gluumer 11 months ago
@Gluumer That's the thing, I don't claim to know anything more than you. Even if I was enlightened, and I'm not sayin I am, my teacher said that enlightenment is like a corporation, but you don't treat the CEO any differently than you do the janitors. : ) But something about this guy puts me badly on edge--intuitively maybe. And that's just me, so I think he's hiding something.
Some judgment is good, tho. It keeps you safe. Sorry if I offended, I can be loud about it. ; )
Zenstudent105 11 months ago
@Zenstudent105 He's hiding something? Of course he is... we all do. The unconscious is a sea of secrets and dark desires. You people keep forgetting that he is a human being. Not a deity. Just because he wrote a few books and is in the public eye doesn't mean he is "special." That says nothing about the relevance of his ideas which are bigger than the man. Moral value judgements of the Blue meme obviously hold us back more than ever.
Aurelius27x 10 months ago
@Aurelius27x Can we not just accept people for what they are... flawed, imperfect and continue a dialogue where we can move forward together? We have such a hangup to try and find some impeccable deity of a man to follow. If Christ or Buddha were born today I can only imagine the attempts to try to scrutinize every step they take in attempts to debunk them. Project less, assimilate more, people. They are all another version of yourself and have something to teach you.
Aurelius27x 10 months ago
@Aurelius27x Not what I mean at all. I know he's not special. I know I'm not special. I'm saying his teachings are bull shit and so is the fact that he charges exorbitant amounts for his enlightening experiences. That's wrong and it cheats people. And the people in that audience are cheating themselves by desperately trying to buy into this idea that enlightenment is a one-time experience. It's not. It's a continuing process and you can't get it by having this guy lay hands on you or whatever.
Zenstudent105 10 months ago
@Zenstudent105 His teachings are bullshit? I don't hear him "teach" anything, only regurgitating what Buddhist practitioners for eons have been saying from his own experience. Genpo Roshi has remarkably similar terminology due to their close associations no doubt. But they haven't done anything but inspire me to persist in my own Buddhist practice with their contemporary spin. But they're trying something, to acclimate an awakening of sorts for the time and culture of the West.
Aurelius27x 10 months ago
@Zenstudent105 The great irony is the puritans of Buddhist schools cling to their zafus and mantras as if they are THE only way. As if the traditions themselves don't evolve and change along with the terminology. You know how long it took for several divisions, interpretations of the original message of the historical Buddha and Jesus Christ to take place? No more than a century or two. Impermanence my friend. Your tradition is not exempt from change.
Aurelius27x 10 months ago
@Aurelius27x I'm not saying they are. I'm saying this guy is charging people a huge amount for fake enlightenment. And I'm not part of any tradition. There is no "one" way, I know, but this guy isn't teaching a real way. He's as phony as the guys who sell magic weight-loss pills and say you can drop pounds of fat for doing nothing. There are wrong ways to go whether you like it or not and listening to a guy who wants you to PAY for enlightenment is one of them.
Zenstudent105 10 months ago
@Zenstudent105 But just because he's not wearing the communist flag as a cape and ripping on capitilism 24/7 doesn't mean he's really out to get you. Info is info, it's up to us to do what we will is right with it. We should be grateful that there is so much spiritual material avaliable online and even on youtube(though censored from time 2 time). I don't agree with capitilism myself at all either, but it doesn't justify me to turn my country into a welfare state.
AMP2K1 6 months ago
Brought to you by Perrier!
doubtboy 1 year ago
agreed! Genpo Roshi has done a phenomenal job!
integralexperts 1 year ago
Boring whith a capital b
zstraw87 1 year ago
Anyone?
MrCuntyballs2U 1 year ago
He's also cocked up......... Just one tangible benefit of integral theory?.......anyone?......anyone?
MrCuntyballs2U 1 year ago
@MrCuntyballs2U wow, for someone who is so passionately disinterested in integral theory, you sure have been spending a lot of time lately commenting on almost every single video out there.
djrekluse 1 year ago
@djrekluse Anyone?
MrCuntyballs2U 1 year ago
he's coked up!
daneiladams 1 year ago
I think the single biggest fallacy promoted by eastern traditions is this idea that conscious is primary to existence. Conscious is not primary, it is emergent. There is no conscious seat that awakens in the human mind, but new emergent consciousness that emerges, grows, and supersedes earlier consciousness.
j0hnwi11iams 1 year ago
@j0hnwi11iams "i-Amness" is an artifact of the human mind creating continuity from memory, not an essential principle. It is essential to understand how deeply our brains shape experience in counter intuitive ways. One of the hardest to expose is the vast confirmation bias built into all mental structure.
j0hnwi11iams 1 year ago
@j0hnwi11iams Sounds assertive... Until you actually think what you're saying that is. How is dead matter, neurons firing electrical impulses form things such as consciousness, experience? What does the experience come to? You can keep saying it's emergent, but until you actually explain how and why this computer like brain chatter forms these things, the hypothesis is not more credible than the "eastern" tradition.
Nacluw 1 year ago
@Nacluw The human consciousness can not contain that much information about itself. There is also a difference between emergence and determinism which I don't think you appreciate. Self-organization is emergent but non-deterministic. Eastern tradition posits the precedence of conscious and then has to use evolution to explain its development, making consciousness a necessary product and direction of evolution. Evolution has no necessary direction. Evolution is self organization and spontaneous.
j0hnwi11iams 1 year ago
@j0hnwi11iams There's also a paradox with that hypotheses by the way. If consciousness was to be emergent from the brain chatter, it wouldn't have qualities of free will. That means you, who are aware of these words, wouldn't have the freedom to example, reply or not to this message. Because something that is emergent of the brain activity itself, cannot affect the brain activity. Yet it was a choise desided by me, as consciousness, to reply to your message.
Nacluw 1 year ago
@Nacluw Self organization is emergent but not deterministic. Emergent is not the same as deterministic.
j0hnwi11iams 1 year ago
It would be fun to CGI a bottle of Heineken to replace his bottle of Perrier.
korgri 2 years ago 10
@korgri
he he.
wayout71 1 year ago
@korgri or a bong! haha...
thehellodaisy 11 months ago
So it seems like Kens energy is so strong he affects you even through the video. This is great stuff, I like the way he describes the Iamness and its relation to the ever changing variables that we identify with. So identification seems to be the element that is the only thing that is not attached to iamness... the constant. DEEEeeppppppo!
taboosun 2 years ago
A very good way of putting it.
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
You mean like what you posted on my comments page two weeks ago?:
"Fuck off, you harass people. That's enough."
(it's still there, I won't take it down)
Is that your everpresent consciousness or just comprehensive hostility?
PleiadianAttrnyAtLaw 2 years ago
It is a rather emphatic way of putting you as a YouTube sure down, yes. :)
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
huh?
PleiadianAttrnyAtLaw 2 years ago
If you want respect, earn it.
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
Don't need (or want) anymore respect, have way too much.
It's why I poke fun at these guys. Like politics is showbiz for the ugly, Pop philosophers are just snake oil peddlers, con artistry instead of real art. Ergo, easy targets.
Nothing so good for instant gratification as the cheap shot.
Helps me keep in touch with my self-deification.
The difference between me and this clown is I do it for free.
Or for laughs, it's far better than money.
(whoops with laughter, cackling like a loon)
PleiadianAttrnyAtLaw 2 years ago
Oh I see.
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
'Modules'? 'Three body workout'? What a crock of the most succulent pseudo-spiritual shit. I know, I'll shave my dome, get some expensive thin-framed spectacles and cynically seduce a bunch of brainless rich tarts with my silver-spoked tongue. Hell, I'd rather get my canned wisdom fr. watching "Friends" than listen to this group ego-stroke. Lorrrd have mercy! Another multi-millonaire 'Hubbard' in the making, no lie.. watch out for this one, he's hungry, oh yeah..
Om-shanti-blah
Henry Swanson xx
HenrySwanson420 2 years ago
Check again. I mean check the literature and the substance behind it. Closed mind. Look who has got one (not rhetirical). Without knowing what the terms mean, the author kind of intended for you to react in this way, or rather he can't define everything to you personally, especially if the audience in the video know the meaning of the terms, as do I. It is a kind of developmental psychology. Wikipedia Ken Wilber or phail - pretty much my message to you. Nothing personal.
MaBu888 2 years ago
Look into this more deeply. You would be insulting your intelligence and that of the ideas and the presenter of said ideas in question if you were not to.
MaBu888 2 years ago
..Only by repeatedly slapping my incredible / flaccid platinium-mink genitals w. a live haddock, did I survive to the end of this stale, self-serving video_presentation.. -and (like my swollen sack) it stank even worse! (And no I'm not being 'rhetirical' either.) Anyone who thinks this blatant, money-grabbing snake-oil salesman is somehow remotely 'spiritual' needs to run a MF'ing checkedy-check. "Now. Now. Now. The I-amness that is non-dual, zoom zoom zoom, dollar hollar dollar" - Henry Swanson
HenrySwanson420 2 years ago
Uh yeah. I dislike his quasi-materialism as much as you do. It just so happens that money is rather practical. He has been meditating more than 30 years daily, not just zazen. You won't read any of his books because you are closed minded about anything he might have to say on spiritual and developmental subjects.(?) This video is about a certain realization common to many spiritual traditions - I AM. But not the same kind of I, nor the same kind of am that people Think of. That's SIMPLY said.
MaBu888 2 years ago
No, I don't read Dear Guru Ken - but then I don't read vampire novels either. Anyone who hasn't undergone radical brain surgery to remove their Irony Gland can tell at a glance this plastic video is so full of FAKE that the home shopping channel seems positively buddhistic in comparison. "Next up Oprah, we have Ken's toenails - $4.19 (+ postage). Gnaw daily while driving to your yoga class for instant TV-Enlightenment." Ooh, where's my credit card!?? I AM: AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING THIS SHIT
HenrySwanson420 2 years ago
This isn't even a criticism of these ideas, at all. Don't even try again LOL.
MaBu888 2 years ago
Ok, sorry.
HenrySwanson420 2 years ago
@HenrySwanson420
We like to project, don't we?
tizray 2 years ago
@HenrySwanson420
You haven't tapped in to that part of yourself that knows no identification yet.. when you do you'll know what hes talking about... be the recorder.
taboosun 2 years ago
You know . . . I sometimes think that being in front of an audience like this . . . is really unhealthy. For everyone concerned.
greenrate 2 years ago
Comment removed
hungry4english 2 years ago
The integral system of including training in Spirit, mind, body, and shadow seems to be complete and necessary. If we develop without seeing our shadow watch out.
Peace and contentment to all beings.
CloudshadowMan1 2 years ago 5
"If we develop without seeing our shadow watch out. "
I'd put it - if we develop without seeing and integratingour shadow, then watch out and in. :)
Though, you are right, right
MaBu888 2 years ago
@CloudshadowMan1
hi u:)
sorry - my english is not very good, so i dont understand what he´s saying fully!
But to includ training in spirit, mind, body an shadow.
How do you do that? Can you give an example for each one of them - an example to train each of them? An what is the shadow? How can i finde out, if iam developing without seeing my shadow?
Hope to hear from u.
peace.
Murerjoe 1 year ago
Wonder how much mindfulness was in the use of a leather chair
Daway1662 2 years ago
Effortless. :)
MaBu888 2 years ago
BTW, what do you mean? I imagine, you might think the use of a leather chair is unfair... I bet that is cheap fake leather.
MaBu888 2 years ago
Wilber is also drinking Perrier bottled water which comes with quite a lot Grey energy there. The Integral Institute integrates elements of the industrial lifestyles without overstating them.
ॐ
hyperseauton 2 years ago
Grey? I do agree, though.
MaBu888 2 years ago
oh, I am sorry. "Grey" refers to the not declared amount of physical and chemical energy that went into the processes of storage and transportation of an end product. The term is used in sustainability studies, mostly lower right quadrant.
In SD locality of production is an important aspect of red.
hyperseauton 2 years ago
maybe
hyperseauton 2 years ago
Coca-Cola is also produced in MY CITY BIATCHES!!! - Red enough.
MaBu888 2 years ago
Or the use of cameras or internet medium...I am
cway420 2 years ago
Pretty efficient. Leather chair was supplied by the darn institute.
1PostPoMoMaN1 2 years ago
Clearly, as your posts are full of errors - embarrassingly so. You must be here to flame and aren't really paying attention. You thought a comment to KosmicCitizen's post referred to yours! I'm not sure what I wasn't "right" about (except, perhaps, your good intentions) but this doesn't reflect what I think or actually wrote. It'd take several posts to untangle this convoluted mess, but it's probably not worth the effort, as you probably get off on angering those you think aren't in on the joke.
gyniest 2 years ago
You are assuming so much here that it's difficult to have a meaningful dialogue, including about that which I assume (or not). You don't even know if I'm a "Ken Wilbur [sic] fan." If you think I'm a special case or sub-par (wherever you set it) in intelligence, originally, knowledge, etc. that's your prerogative. Likewise about being on an "ego trip." It's irrelevant whether my "heavy words" (whichever those were) impressed you. I wonder if you actually take this conversation seriously or not.
gyniest 3 years ago
You are right for once. No, I am not taking this conversation seriously. I don't think there is anything enlightening or worthy to be taken seriously here in our little verbal fling, (either from you or me) apart from you trying to impress me (as admitted by you - in your own words) with your borrowed ideas.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Big Mind for Small Minds with large wallets!
How much are these suckers paying to get a taste of this so called 'bliss'?
At the end of the day they have to face the challenges of life like everybody else on earth and finally die off. Come on chaps get real!
Utubeprema 3 years ago 2
I don't recall any claim in this video about immortality (not having to "finally die off"). And of course money doesn't buy happiness, but that's a cliche. It certainly can buy things that make you happy. Why do think people pay for drugs? For "fake" bliss? Now, if he goes out of business, then maybe he offers fake bliss. But it's irrelevant to distinguish b/w a "real" and "fake" bliss if he does retain loyal consumers. There must be at least a secondary gain.
gyniest 3 years ago
As you rightly point out, I do not recall any claim to that effect either (regarding not having to "finally die off" by Wilbur).
I was merely trying to prevent any misguided souls/suckers from enrolling on one of Wilburs exorbitantly priced seminars, which would only manage to en-lighten our wallets.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Your intention seems fine, if condescending in how it comes off. But those already attracted to KW will likely ignore or dismiss your skepticism, which comes off as cynicism, especially if they feel insulted by your comments. I'd say that people should be presented with relevant (and objective) info on his programs, and data from outcome studies (if any exist) so that they're making an informed choice before dishing out the cash. A money-back guarantee for unhappy customers wouldn't hurt either.
gyniest 3 years ago
It isn't that bliss that's false, people know if they're blissful! What's false is the illusion one must depend on only one way to get that bliss.
gyniest 3 years ago
Philosophies like this make a distinction between "pain" and "suffering." The former is unavoidable, and is part of the ebb and flow of experience. "Suffering", on the other hand, is understood to involve all of our existential angst and psychological/spiritual misery. The Stoics would say suffering comes from "false judgments" - the Advaitan would say any essential identification with experience is false. Both point to the origin of suffering. Pain is indifferent. It happens.
KosmicCitizen 3 years ago
That's kinda a load of dough wasted to find out the distinction between "pain" and "suffering" as you put it.
Obviously the Stoics and the Advaitans are pretty confused when it comes to differentiating pain and suffering.
The "Sensibles" would say that "pain" and "suffering" both are the same, only expressed with diiferent words, or at the least they go hand in hand.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Good point. I would add that in English, "pain" usually has a physical connotation. "Suffering" can be both physical and psychological. But that word has its own religious history in Judeo-Christianity - something that can even be positive! Dukkha is a different ballgame - closer to "tension," "displacement," "stress," "dis-ease," "conflict," "dissatisfaction," etc. But for beginners, pain and/or suffering is sufficient, I suppose.
gyniest 3 years ago
You manage to sound quite intelligent. The question is how inteligent are you really devoid of words?
Pain and suffering is the same, at the beginning, and at the end... and how dare you call me a beginner :-) condescendingly may I add.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Devoid of words? Is there another method of communicating on Youtube forums? I'd like to know how you'd make that assessment of my intelligence, without words that is. Either you'd have to personally observe my nonverbal behavior, or somehow psychically sense my vibrations in the great aether. If you try the former, you'd have to know me already or be a stalker (please don't). If the latter, hey, good luck. Let me know that results : )
gyniest 3 years ago
Stalking a Ken Wilbur fan are you kiddin me :-)
I am afraid my tastes are far more refined when it comes to stalking.
Regarding my comment on 'Devoid of words' what I was trying to convey was that it is easy for anyone to drop a few heavy words or borrowed ideas in a comment and sound Intelligent. How many useful original ideas have you had in your lifetime? Even the very words used here are learned? Most of us are Dwarfs standing on the shoulders of Giants - and on an ego trip with words.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
what i find fundamentally disconcerting about " Kens" ramblings is his quintessential (good guy) attempt to say something profound. While staying just vague enough to seem perspicacious. His dizzying loop of light & shadows gives the illusion of substance.
imyourboy 3 years ago
The rigor is in his books. Most of his Utube vids don't say a lot. I am no fan of pseudo-profundity either, it's simply bad philosophy. But some clips do have something about Buddhism, consciousness, etc, that is quite relevant to those who are interested, but are beginners. Plus this is a seminar, we're missing a lot to put it in context, such as experiential exercises (as many of us can't afford these fancy events).
gyniest 3 years ago
You are completely right. Actually vague is the right word, because there is no real realization behind it, Its making gullible people think they are listening to something profound, they nod their heads and say wow yeah how amazing. He told them they are God and that he is God and they think yeah that's right, very profound, I always knew that, but now he told me, and and then God goes home the next day back to work, for some employer working his but off. Illusion sells.
devarsi 2 years ago
This is not genuine Buddhism at all
bruisernyc 3 years ago
hes not saying anything, point somewhere.
zarglox 3 years ago
Nic emusic there for a few secodns. What's the story of this?
MaBu888 3 years ago
In duality we have to deal with language what to me Ken is pointing to is timeless and without words, it is energy beyond concepts and so to hear these words as pointers may take you into what experience he is sharing.
The intellect although powerful in this instance can only indicate a shadow of the illumination he refers to. Out of your own eyes this self sees.
HY34HU 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Accept Jesus & he will awaken you to everything!
jo7858 3 years ago
In the integral framework, yes but don't do it unwisely.
MaBu888 3 years ago
he will awaken you to imprisoned souls and the torments of hell...unless of course you bow to his conclusion as to what god is supposed to be...
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
What the hell was he talking about???!!!
luikovicas 3 years ago 2
Wake up and you'll know.
wakeupnow720 3 years ago
Ken Wilber speaks like Mystery. Different target group though.
Ritter99 3 years ago
Hehe, yeah different target group. But I've noticed a lot of people intrerested in the venusian arts seem to have some sort of attraction to spiritual matters, whether it's vipassana meditation or whatever.
october4891647 3 years ago
word......this is tight....... baronkinder- like what you said below
nathan13531 3 years ago
Ken Wilber is a block head!
I love him.
Seenowevill 3 years ago
shyte
sargentpepperoni 3 years ago
sjtusruhgwkverguwh ergwehr goqherghrghqo rgh U hdotukpij gsirgjaurh gAUR GUR HOR R
MaBu888 3 years ago
Ha ha ha ha
gyniest 3 years ago
i was pointing out what shyte was.
MaBu888 3 years ago
Focus on the messages rather than the messengers. The simplest are the closest to the source. You can be loved by the whole world but that won't make you happy. It is love coming out of you that makes you happy. Governments can only affect your senses not your sense! Your life is a mirror, wipe the dust off. There are many messengers but the same source is behind them all. More people argue over the message than put it to use, let's change that. Love accepts all.
baronkinder 3 years ago
Love accepts all - including a well-honed mind that can be a good tool to use when necessary.
gyniest 3 years ago
this guy is a CULT LEADER!! this is as bad as scientology, he's draining you of all your money! wisdom doesn't cost money, sri ramana maharshi's teachings are all free on his website, you can download all his books for free. this guy is a liar and he's TAKING YOUR MONEY.
smcyrone 3 years ago
How do you know?
frankroshi2 3 years ago
look up Dennis Genpo Merzel (Genpo Roshi) and his critics, and also the scam that is "Big Mind" and then decide if you want to waste your money filling his pockets. if you want an enlightening experience, read the dhamapada, the bhagavad gita, the vedas, upanishads, sutras... don't waste your time having this guy 'interpret' it for you, go to the source.
smcyrone 3 years ago 2
Did you ever think that some people need it opened a little more for them in order to explore it? Some people can't understand it straight from the source.
rocktheflow 3 years ago
Blah, blah, blah. You're in your head. You only understand words; you don't understand anything that is beyond words. That's fine. Perhaps you will wake up one day and realize the map is not the terrritory. The menu is not the meal. It is possible that you will develop the cognitive structures necessary to grasp aspects of reality and your experience that are not abstractions/concepts. Growth and evolution are natural and spontaneous unless there is a psychological or epistemological barrier....
frankroshi2 3 years ago
I tend to agree...Cioran once wrote that to the Buddhist the universe is nothing but words...
rasTeachLuv 3 years ago
But some have gone to the source(s) and do interpret it in the same way as KW. Big mind - I don't know how original that term is, but as I see it, it's not out of place w/ Advaita, Dzogchen, or Yogachara. I would add that KW fans should at least consult some the texts that he references/cites in his books, and not just take his word for it, as he's been known to get things wrong.
gyniest 3 years ago
He has never struck me as a "liar," but I do agree that you don't need to spend money on ANY of this. Sri Ramana Maharishi, as far as I know, didn't charge money for his teachings, which lends him an air of legitimacy.
gyniest 3 years ago
Thanks for great video:)
Satori1800 3 years ago
100% material because we can not apply the logic of a bucket getting empty unto a Truth so high that it eclipses the comprehension of our insignificant minds. God is a person with uncountable energies, oneness or emptiness just some of them, we can go to any of them but because we are individual souls by nature full of bliss and eternal we soon find our way back after realising that we can not be happy there why? because we r eternally individuals the idea of becoming God or being God is foolish
devarsi 3 years ago
God is not a person! God is impersonal. Brahman or the unmanifest reality is the only reality. Everything else is only a projection. Just like table, chair, desk are all composed of wood, so also everyting 'material' comes from the unmanifest which is Brahman. Only the deluded think that God will do something personal for them.
MrSigma 3 years ago
Impersonal: to not be person-like? What constitutes this so-called "person-like"-ness? Who gets to dictate what will constitute "person-like-ness"? ONLY a projection. Why "only"? Since you perceive a projection, the projection is clearly infiltrating your mind. Since it is capable of infiltrating your mind, is it still "only" a projection? Then to what, pray tell, could one not apply the label "only"?
easonrevant 3 years ago
That's a sankhya interpretation. I believe also that's how Ramanuja conceived of Vedanta. But not Shankaracharya. What if we're not "eternally individuals"? What if our minds are not "insignificant," but just have limitations in certain contexts? Indeed, maybe the term "God" really is redundant - the idea of a singular being, existing as A being. Instead of an empty bucket, consider sunlight with no where to land, that is - consciousness unbound. Or think of the origin of the word "nirvana."
gyniest 3 years ago
still without the sun there is no sunshine. we are individual now and have been so in the past and in the future we will be individuals. It is exactly because of this fact that not being individual is redundant. Krishna is The Supreme Individual and even so many complete parts emerge from Him he always remains the complete Absolute whole He never diminishes, the empty bucket theory is material, this bucket is never empty
devarsi 3 years ago
And w/o hydrogen converting into helium, the sun has no heat. And w/o subatomic nuclear reactions, none of that is possible. And the rabbit hole goes deeper. I understand that you are a Vaishnava and that's your path to salvation. I never disparaged that. But you are preaching, distorting another religion, and not having a dialogue. I'm not a monotheist. And I have no idea what you mean by the "empty bucket" theory. This clip never mentions it, nor any Buddhist writing I've ever come across.
gyniest 2 years ago
I maintain that everyone who says that we are God You are God I am God, has not yet realised the Absolute Truth which is personal. Absolute Truth means that even so many emanations spring from The AT, the AT never becomes less or empty, if it was it could not be called Absolute. He may has expanded Himself into many, this means we r His eternal parts and parcels, He is still God, otherwise the term God Would be redundant. The idea thatGod has become many and lost his own status is 100% material
devarsi 3 years ago
We communicate using multiple languages; Body language, tone of voice, words. Someone of high spiritual achievement will communicate their joyful disposition via all three.
Cut out the word content of KW's communication and we see an uncomfortably writhing, twisting organism with a rigid smirk, whose tone of voice is robotic; seemingly devoid of sensitivity. Since 55% of communication is body language, 38% is tone of voice, and 7% is words, what is this guy actually saying about his practice?
Erime 3 years ago
Erime, If you actually turn off the sound and watch, it's not as bad as you suggest. Also, you should cut him some slack, considering the intensely weird physical problems he's been dealing with these past several years. Good points, otherwise.
genericbuddha 3 years ago
Wasn't aware of his weird problems - are they linked to practice?
You're right, it isn't as bad I suggest, but if you turn the sound on and see at what point he 1st squirms (between 1:30 and 1:45) his body language, and even his tone of voice communicates something which appears very different from the words - why does he feel so uncomfortable here? At 3:17 there is another squirm when he talks about the exercise - makes me think: "No thanks!". It is as if creepy insects are all over his body.
Erime 3 years ago
What the hell, hes giving a presentation to a ton of people about some really deep intricate stuff that quite frequently upsets a lot of people, of course hes going to feel somewhat uncomfortable, it isn't an easy thing to do you know.
spiritofsyth 3 years ago
Maybe it could be easy if one was certain that one was doing a positive thing - he needs to communicate the positivity behind what he is saying and behind what he wants people to do. Thich Naht Hanh does this with ease, and appears relaxed, joyful, and comfortable with himself. Wilber's "wierd problems" I have discovered are a form of CFIDS; a collection of symptoms that can individually be related to psychomatic problems. Under hypnosis blisters can be created, skin colouration affected, etc.
Erime 3 years ago
"he uses electrodes to measure brain states during meditation"
A man who proposes that He is God, who says that everything is one, then goes and measures his brain state, is not God and certainly not one with everything, because he ought to be all-knowing
devarsi 3 years ago
have you practiced meditation?
all this stuff ist about to belive anything
But you have to practice, to expierence it to judge...
besides it seems that you aren't familiarizated with all the context
AnandaShake 3 years ago
sorry for what ive said about the context... i read your posts...
I dont know it you belive in God as a person, but I think he refers to God, as his ego disoluted in the Absolute...
AnandaShake 3 years ago
You are confusing monism (panentheism or nootheism) with monotheism.
gyniest 3 years ago
are their any speeches of him standing and walking around? are his legs ok?
loomel81 4 years ago
its amazing how many people just fall for some flowery words, charisma and word jugglery which sounds good.
devarsi 4 years ago
Which words that "sound good" to you do you think "people...fall for"?
ddj333 3 years ago
"the ever present god-head, which you are" for example, it sounds nice, its what people like to hear. It gives those who are spiritually in ignorance and who are looking for something, a certain sense of spirituality, which is in fact based on illusion.
devarsi 3 years ago
I agree on the part about what people like to hear, but don't shoot the messenger. There are people who hear those words in truth, not from there own ego. Why not let the egocentric be responsible for themselves? They will interpret from their level through their filter - that's not Ken Wilber's fault - that's just the way it is.
ddj333 3 years ago
Thats just it, it people interpret according to their own perception, which can be dangerous.If everything is one, then you can do whatever you like, you can kill steal cheat and do anything under the sun, but because everything is one, it makes no difference. Its a dangerous philosophy
devarsi 3 years ago
Thats just it, it people interpret according to their own perception, which can be dangerous.If everything is one, then you can do whatever you like, you can kill steal cheat and do anything under the sun, but because everything is one, it makes no difference. Its a dangerous philosophy
devarsi 3 years ago
*You re describing "absolute truth" where there is nothing arising, nothing to fear or defend against, nothing to love or hate, pure emptiness. There IS no killing, or stealing or cheating from that perspective because there is nothing arising. But, there's relative truth, my friend. We also exist in this physical realm, this gross body, where things are relative to each other. This duality is a theme is every tradition. If there is danger, it lies in confusing the two...
ddj333 3 years ago
pure emptiness may be your desire and it arrives out of deep frustration with this material world,but there is also another world where all those aspects you dislike, hate, killing, stealing e...g. are absent and pure love is everywhere. people want nothingness or emptiness because of disappointment, but our inner nature will soon become totally bored with this and begin seeking again, seeking for what? Pure spiritual love for the Absolute, which is God Himself
devarsi 3 years ago
But in Buddhism, emptiness is not separate from this "inner nature." The Buddha describes it as empty of disturbance, for example, and empty of falsehood. It's a mode of perception, truth, and integrity all in one. You don't get "bored" with total freedom! There is no lack of love, because consciousness w/o obstruction does not seek or lack. Advaita puts it in positive terms as SatChitAnanda. Unconditioned mind is unconditional in every sense, including love.
gyniest 3 years ago
ADVERTISEMENT.
WARNING! to any poor misguided souls out there in YouTube land.
Enrolling on one of Wilburs exorbitantly priced seminars (which would only manage to en-lighten your wallets)
will not solve any of your problems or answer any cosmic question.
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Simply chanting Hare Krishna with devotion transcends the stages of the minds unsteadiness, goes beyond intelligence and allows one to experience the self by direct perception, I the soul am full of sat cit ananda full of bliss knowledge and eternal. Brahman, every one of us, we are Brahman. There is no doubt about it. But by mistake,by illusion,I am thinking, "I am this body." So first of all one has to understand that aham brahmasmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this body." That is the beginning.
devarsi 3 years ago
How do you know chanting something other than "Hare Krishna" (other than faith alone) wouldn't bring that to you? And if you are not your body, but are truly Brahman, then that pretty much negates individuality as that word is normally used. If the body is a mere instrument or vehicle of a more powerful being, that's technically servitude/slavery. While those words have negative connotations, I'm not trying to slander, as some monotheists actually call themselves such in relation to their god.
gyniest 2 years ago
For us "not the body means we are individual spiritual souls" we belief in inconceivable and simultaneous oneness and difference in the same time. One with and different from The Absolute in terms of One in "quality" and different in "quantity" Like the sunshine can not claim to be the sun, in the same time they are eternally connected. The physical body is not the self. the soul is that what animates the body and that is me, I am not this body
devarsi 2 years ago
One can only become Krishna conscious via ..well Krishna. If others had the same experience they would all talk about Krishna, therefore they do not have the same experience.
devarsi 2 years ago
ddj333 is right. This emptiness is aqually described as radiant with compassion. However, devarsi doesn't know what one taste of the great perfection means to buddhists. This godhead is the witness without the sense of wintessing and it is onenes of form and formlesness. Nonduality is the cause and condicion, or so it seems. There DOES exist the relative plain of suffering and the absolte transcendental reality that is 'out side' of form and time. Search for Nisargadatta Maharaj.
MaBu888 3 years ago
Like I said people want to experience nothingness or emptiness because of their disappointment with life and that is totally understandable. But to be happy we don't have to approach or try merging into those energies. All we have to understand is, that we are all individual spiritual souls and that we have an original relationship with God which is one of pure love & which we have forgotten over so many lifetimes. Life is meant to go back to our original relationship with God thats all.
devarsi 3 years ago
While that may be trud, devarsi, I like to experience radiant bliss, because emptiness is the cause and condicion of which fulness arises. Emptiness and fulness/form are one.
MaBu888 3 years ago
when you please the Lord by chanting the Holy Names and surrender to Him with love and devotion then this sublime blissful condition arrives from beyond the scope of the mind and intelligence, it is not something that can be got by mental gymnastics meditation for peace or imagination. When God is pleased, then we become pleased, it can not manufactured by any material manipulation of the mind it simply comes from high above as a result of pleasing Lord Krishna
devarsi 3 years ago
the bliss which arrives from emptiness and so called oneness is like the water in the footprint of a calf when compared with the ocean of transcendental bliss which arrives from pleasing Lord Krishna. This is declared by all the great sages which have experienced both.
devarsi 3 years ago
Have you experienced it firsthand yourself? And are you sure it is not another form of escapism? Why lord Krishna? Why not Jesus? What is the difference betwen Lord Krishna and Christ? How can they both be right?
Utubeprema 3 years ago
Krishna is God and Jesus is the son of God, both are right. Jesus said "from the rising of the sun to the sunset the Holy Name of my father shall be praised" the Greek words christos or cristo come originally from ancient Sanskrit and mean Krishna the all attractive, this is a fact. In engl speaking countries it becomes Christ in Germany Christus and so on and yes first hand experiences since 1976
devarsi 3 years ago
Surely if Jesus' origin was Krishna. What is the origin of Krishna? You failed to mention that. Does your consciousness end with Krishna?
Utubeprema 3 years ago
eternal means no beginning no end, this is Krishna, He has no beginning and no end. Like the soul we do not know birth or death, this only applies to the material body our temporary covering. Because we identify with our temporary bodies we are under the impression that everything else also is temporary. Spiritual means anti material. The Lords form is 100% non material. Individual consciousness is the symptom of the soul, I me. There was never a time now or in the future, when we did not exist
devarsi 3 years ago
What is the difference between believing in all this nonsense and/or believing in the Bible or the Quran or any other religious text for that matter?
Are they simply not beliefs and fantasies that we humans have created in our own tiny little minds to try and escape a reality that is traumatic sometimes?
Can our brains really cope with these cosmic questions without conjuring up nonsense?
After all we only discovered fire a few thousand years ago.
Utubeprema 2 years ago
Philosophy... not necessaryiliy metaphysical. No need to believe what others tell. Experiment. Meditate. Involution and evolution are philosophical concepts, not articles of belief.
MaBu888 2 years ago
I agree with that thought
Utubeprema 2 years ago
I figured as much.
MaBu888 2 years ago
if that's the case why should anyone listen to you?
devarsi 2 years ago
I'm speaking to you... answering your inquiries... not speaking to anyone else. And 'I' 'have' 'free' 'will'.
MaBu888 2 years ago
I dont know if this was a reply to my comments if it was....
all I am saying is... Is this all bullshit? Why should anybody listen to anyone else? Unless there is scientific proof.
Utubeprema 2 years ago
This is the kind of scientific proof you can have yourself, without having to depend on our dear scientists for validation. However you can not do this with the torchlight of your own mind, you have to find someone who can show you the Truth. Someone who is experiencing it moment for moment. The trick is to become 100% + sincere, then this person will appear, but are you sincere to such a high degree? if not, you will only meet others. Read the intro to my page.
devarsi 2 years ago
Thanks for evading the question, I guess you had no option there but to sidetrack. A common occurrance.
I am sorry my mind did not come with a torchlight out of the box. Thankfuly it came with some ability to be logical and sensible.
I have seen your webpage which promotes yourself and your beliefs and also collects money, so much for 100%sincerity.
Utubeprema 2 years ago
I didn't know I was evading a question so I read it again. The difference is Kens philosophy is illusion ( we are god) and the other is truth (we are not God). I don't promote myself, only our philosophy and I state categorically that I can refer a seeker to a genuine spiritual master and that I am just a simple devotee. I hold seminars in my home town and pay for it myself, so why should I not sell ONE CD to be help financing this? No logic or sensibility in your last post at all
devarsi 2 years ago
All I am saying is both are philosophies without any scientific proof. I believe in Darwin.
Utubeprema 2 years ago
99.99% of the populace don't need any spiritual enlightenment. Their immediate needs are meeting day to day problems such as food, shelter and sanitation.
In some societies when all these needs are met and satisfied -after sometime- the mind gets bored and seeks other ways to satisfy itself. Having satisfied with basic needs the mind seeks a Utopia which does not exist... this is where Ken Wilbur and Krishna come in
Utubeprema 2 years ago