Affordable Spinal Decompression

[MrSlicksnake]

does it make one taller????

[BiggerFatterBlog]

I have heard claims and testimonials but I have never seen radiological evidence or double blind studies showing that spinal decompression is any better than properly performed traction.

Show me 10 before and after MRIs.

[WingThaiJ]

The DTS forces one to lie on there back; the Kennedy table is better as many patients do better in prone (on stomach).

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

i Definitely want to set up an Appt with you to try the Kennedy and then the ATM2 , the only way ill know if it helps is to try it as ive never tried either one 

im in Scranton area of PA, which is about 4 hrs drive to where you are at, Cape May is close to Ocean City and i drove there many years ago

[Balldez]

God causes suffering.

[LegPains]

@Balldez

watch vids on DRX 9000

[Hertsman50]

Can't you just hang upside down on an inversion table? Can you buy this DTS therapy machine for the home?

[LegPains]

@Hertsman50

the DTS machine is very inferior to the DRX 9000

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains they are all equal, except both the DTS and DRX has drawbacks.. I believe you can only lye on your back with these devices. The Kennedy table you can lye on your back or your stomach. THEY ARE ALL TRACTION DEVICES Decompression is the DESIRED RESULT of Traction! Go somewhere where they have intermittent traction and you can lay on either your stomach or back if you want to try it.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

ive had 4 sessions on the TRITON DTS table by a Local Chiro, but it didnt help at all, i know of course 4 is very few to expect any results , but i kept hearing about the vast superiority of the DRX and VAX D to all Other Machines , so i thought i was just Wasting my Money on the inferior DTS machine, so i stopped using it.

The Kennedy Table is Quite Rare, i dont know of anyone in my area that has it

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains they all pull for a while and release for a while. You should have some sign of it feeling better during traction at the very least. It appears it won't help you. It didn't make your worse right? However, it may be good to follow it with using the ATM2. Even if you don't get better, you can at least exercises vigorously on the ATM2 without pain which means you can strengthen without pain.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

I never felt any Pain reduction at any time while on the DTS table. It never made me any worse or better, same Pain sensation was there whole time as when im not on the table, but i only had 4 sessions .

After 12 years im not interested in strengthening anything, im already very strong, what i need is someone or something that can physically put my L5 S1 disc back in its proper position to eliminate this Pain

[chirodocheilman]

@ProPTRehab with the DTS you CAN lay either prone or supine as the Kennedy table. Dr. Jay Kennedy helped design both tables. The Kennedy Neuroflex table has greater flexion and extension capacities, but both brands allow the prone or supine positioning.

[ProPTRehab]

@chirodocheilman Thanks for clarifying this for me. 

[chirodocheilman]

@Hertsman50 If you hang upside down on an inversion table - your spinal muscles will reflexively contract. This muscle contraction will prevent effective disc decompression. The benefit to a good quality decompression system is that it can accommodate to your most comfortable position so that your muscles can relax and the traction can work directly on your disc without the muscle interference.

[babybunnies]

The guy with the white shirt and tie is so vein! He is lucky he can run for there is so many ppl that can not even walk! He is not a good example for people who are suffering so much more than him!

[LegPains]

@Patriotman54

Watch vids on DRX 9000 machine

[ProPTRehab]

If it helps on 1st visit, use it, but it won't train the spinal core muscles; the ATM2 will. I believe this, along with the ATM2 and Mulligan Mobs would be a dynamite combination

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

what do you think of the drx 9000 and the vax d machines ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains - PART I - I'll have 2 do so in a few posts.ALL DECOMPRESSION is based upon Traction(tx) as u may know. Theyre ALL tx machines, hence Y I bill for mech tx; not decompression. If I billed decompression, the ins company will tell me it's experimental & not covered; I now have permission to charge whatever I want; many do. Therefore, I bill under mech tx as I care about pt's (Continue to Part II)

[ProPTRehab]

PART II: DRX9000. IF my descriptors R correct, drx9000 has a lot of needless Bells & Whistles. 'Marketers' have gotten the best of many who never questioned the research. Most of my patients do better laying on their stomach, DRX U have no choice but to lye on UR back. My Kennedy table allows ANY position. IF DRX Machines claims to isolate specific lumbar levels which provide buttons design like L3 selector, this is also bogus. U can't isolate 1 segment, goes through entire LS(CONT TO PART III)

[ProPTRehab]

PART III: An obese person will affect the angle of pull relative to a thin person, so the selector feature is a waste. The upper lumbar have to be gotten to via the lower lumbar & a clinician can make the settings based upon pt's responses as opposed to just pushing a button. DRX marketers tout a problem w/muscle "guarding" or "splinting" w/tx forces which is claimed can actually do more harm than good (Continue to Part IV)

[ProPTRehab]

PART IV: Claims to have a computer that's able to sense body's muscle response & adapt to it; they forget 1 point. There’s no substantiation to claim that muscles will guard during passive spinal tx. If someone is guarded, you just explain to them what the machine is doing, they feel comfortable and they relax. If you look @ my web site,you will see someone I just treated using Manual therapy, Spinal decompression (tx) & the ATM2. DRX filled w/Bells & Whistles to justify it's outrageous cost

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains I would save over an $100K++ and purchase a Kennedy Table. Most of my patients need to treat in prone, although I have the option of treating in supine and even side-lye, but side-lye would only be because of conditions which may not allow the patient to lay prone or supine. There is no way the DRX provides any added benefits; traction is traction is traction and you just need to set the proper settings to allow it to do it's job.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

So you Positively dispute the manufacturers claims as well as Many Dr's claims that the DTS machine is Not true actual Decompression ?

Because as you know Most of the claims out there are that DTS is Traction and  DRX and VAX D are decompression, and there is a world of difference between those 2 states , like comparing Night and Day

[chirodocheilman]

@LegPains I absolutely positively dispute the marketing claims that the DTS is not true actual Decompression.

This is why:

1. All of the brands being listed here (DRX, VAX D, Kennedy, Triton) provide an axial vector traction pull. They all have separating portions built into the table that will gap the lumbar spine. They ALL have a harness, tied to a pulley and pull along the long axis of the spine.

[ProPTRehab]

Also, Traction has been used in physical therapy for years and years; the only difference today is the settings chosen and the harnesses are much less encumbering now. The DTS is fine too, but I don't think it lets people lye prone, and I absolutely need prone option for my patients. The Vax-D I believe only allows prone position which eliminates those who would do better supine.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

id like to hear your Opinion on these vids

WHAT IS THE  DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRACTION AND DRX 9000

VAX D IS THE OPPOSITE OF TRACTION

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains If U read all of my replies U already know answer. No matter what anyone tells U, there's NO DIFFERENCE! Vax-D:Still Tx; DRX only allows U to lye on ur back, Vax-D only allows u to lay on stomach. My Kennedy table allows me to place patients in any position; most need to be placed on their stomach, just a few on their back. The call it Decompression so they can tell u that it's not covered by insurance and charge you whatever they want. Decompression is the Desired RESULT OF Traction

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

So in your Opinion the Kennedy Table is the best device out of all them to treat bulging and herniated discs ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains I chose this table because is was minus the lies and bogus claims and patients can lye on their stomach or back and it's a very adjustable table; I can use it for other methods I use to treat back pain like the McKenzie approach, etc.. However, as long as you have a traction machine that can let you lye in prone or supine that's what you want. Better yet, you 'May' benefit from using the ATM2, so finding a place that has both devices for your problem could be advantageous.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

Have you ever successfully treated anyone with a case similar to mine with regards to my type of Pain, Location being bilaterally in both legs evenly distributed in each Leg, and a patient that had similar to what my Lumbar MRI says ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains If you go to my web site to the testimonials page you scroll down you will see a woman with a 40 year history of spinal pain, had surgery has fibromyalgia and nothing has helped her live a normal lifestyle until she treated with me using the ATM2. Some may use it as their exercise to keep in shape. Some go to the gym to keep in shape, people like her will use the atm2 to keep in shape and pain-free.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

is that the same blond hair woman that is on video with  you here ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains There is a video of her on the machine, then 2 5 month follow up videos. I may have her do another one soon. The machine will typically take pain away while in it and even stay gone after, but some peoples pain relief may last for minutes, some hours, some days, some weeks, some months; most have had great success with it. Some will use it as their exercise gym for the rest of their life instead of going to a regular gym. If it works for you, that's all that matters.

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains This woman had evey treatment you can imagine and the ATM2 is the first time she was helped. He had herniated discs and a host of issues.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

i dont think the ATM 2 is the answer for me specifically, because at 6ft 185 lbs i can do 10 full over hand wide grip pull ups with excellent form , so back strength is obviously not an issue for me , what i need is Pain reduction right now by some method that is proven to physically get in there and move that stubborn L5 S1 disc back to where it should be

Can the ATM2 do that ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains you don't understand the concept of the ATM2 by saying this. I don't care if you can do a 1000; your core muscles don't necessarily have to be so strong as they need to function properly. The ATM2 is designed to reactivate the core muscles to get them to do their job; it's a neurologic benefit more-so than strengthening. I dont care of you're a power lifter, with your problems it could still benefit. YOu are also not getting pure core training with any other core exercises you do.

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains If you watch my videos you will quickly learn that pain reduction is the primary thing the ATM2 does via neurologic activation of core muscles to function properly.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

Ok that makes sense about the ATM2, i get what you are saying about the Core stabilizer spine muscles needing to be built up, but being my X rays reveal my body from head to toe is out of proper Alignment, dont i need to be structurally re aligned correctly in my anatomy ?

Which is what Rolfing attempts to do, if Rolfing isnt effective at doing that than is there anything that is ?

[WingThaiJ]

@LegPains I sent you a message regarding this; too long to post here.

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

Tell me if im correct here, So its your Opinion that Rolfing , despite their fantastic Claims, is NO different than a basic ordinary Massage, and  its physically impossible to do what they claim, which is in 10 sessions to physically align the Human body with nothing more than their bare hands, when its out of proper Alignment ?

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

What im saying is sounds like the ATM2 would be a great therpay for me to start, but the ATM2 by itself isnt going to structurally properly align my physical body from head to toe, which is what i need in addition to a device like the ATM2 if im going to have real true long term relief of Pain

do you agree ? I know for a fact my Posture is badly off and my body is out of Alignment via the X rays

[WingThaiJ]

@LegPains The ATM2 will neurologically get your core muscles to do what they are suppose to do theoretically speaking. If you want a good program for dealing with muscle imbalances, you should find a Shirley Sahrmann trained physical therapist. They will do more for you than most Rolfers because as I understand, even massage therapists can be a Rolfer while S. Sahrmann procedures requires someone with a medical background.

[WingThaiJ]

Google Shirley Sahrmann, PT and see if you can locate a physical therapist in your area who is certified or nearly certified in this procedures. However, nothing will remove the obstructive tissue that is in your spine as you know.

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ all the Rolfing sites from all the various Instructors and the words and ideas they use sound wonderful and fabulous in  Theory, they claim in ONLY 10 sessions spaced 1 week apart for each one, that they can totally re integrate and properly align someone's faulty structure when they are out of Alignment.

but my common sense and logic agrees with you, how can they Possibly do this in ONLY 10 appointments ?

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

To Learn more about Rolfing i also joined an Interactive Yahoo message group where lots of Rolfing instructors and those who practice it are on there. One thing that is definitely disturbing about them is Not all, but Many of them hinge on Emotional work, telling me that i need to explore Emotional therapy with them that most Pain is caused by Emotional trauma and imbalance, which to me is BS  !

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

So that part of Rolfing that is this Bizarre ' wishy washy touchy feely  get in touch with your emotions and lets all cry and hold hands as we think back to when we were 10 yrs old and our dads yelled at us esoteric bull shit to get rid of our Physical Pain is definitely a Huge turn off and is WAY too Esoteric for my wants right now

That part of Rolfing is Asinine and Ridiculous

[WingThaiJ]

@LegPains The ATM2 isn't just for strengthening; it's for kicking in the spinal core muscles neurologically; which may be why some of my patients can have a few treatments and they are fine for the next year or more.

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

i also last Friday had my 1st Rolfing session from a woman in East Stroudsburg PA certified in Rolfing, and what she did felt no different than a basic conventional Massage, the Pressure she used was very weak and soft, and obviously did nothing for my Pain.

To be fair to Rolfing, im not sure if i just got an Incompetent unskilled Practitioner or not

[WingThaiJ]

The ATM2 reduces pain, often eliminates it. 

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

Just to update you since we last talked, i tried 10 Sessions on the DRX 9000 , spent $ 500 and there was no difference whatsoever in my Pain so i quit going, they wanted me to do the full 20 Sessions telling me that i might get a big breakthrough around session 17 or so, but my Logic and common sense told me if i have absolutely no difference at 10 , than 10 more arent going to help

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

In your Opinion , is Rolfing Nothing more than just a bunch of New Age unscientific  worthless Quackery ? i admit i cant understand how they can possibly with Nothing more than their bare hands manipulate the body enough with only 10 treatments and next thing you know the person is excellent symmetrical natural alignment

sounds way too unbelievable and hocus pocus

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

i could Understand perhaps  if Rolfing said that in 50 or 100 Sessions they could Restore an unbalanced mis aligned body back to proper alignment, but to do it in only 10 sessions sounds way too Fantastic to be reality

[LegPains]

@WingThaiJ

is the ATM2 effective at eliminating Pain in the Legs caused by Bulging L4 L5 and L5 S1  discs ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains “There is no valid scientific differentiation between traction

and decompression…regardless of how manufacturers position their

devices…they are all traction units…and all create the same

effect, but the outcome of that effect is based on the specific

patient presentations etc. not by the mechanism of the

machine.”

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

Whats your Opinion about this  TRITON DTS table ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains if it lets you lye prone or supine and they can adjust the table into various positions, it's fine. The DRX might be fine if being on your back is ok. Just don't fall for all the marketing garbage.

[ProPTRehab]

Decompression is the desired RESULT of Traction. It's being used as a Marketing term to justify charging more than insurance companies would pay for traction. I agree, we are underpaid for the service, however, traction is covered by insurance albeit at a low rate. I charge Traction for the benefit of word of mouth and I also can't say NO to a patient in pain who doesn't have money.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

how much do you usually charge a patient to use your Kennedy Table  ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains Presently $60 if you don't have insurance and I add in ATM2 and manual therapy and Therapeutic Exer IF you need any of these other services.

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains There you have it - VAX-D, DRX9000, DTS, KENNEDY TABLE - THEY ARE ALL TRACTION DEVICES! DON'T PAY YOUR OWN CASH TO USE IT. If u ask anyone who has any of these devices ask them if machine is traction based. If they say, NO, or that it's different, they r lying or r ignorant & fooled by Marketers. The settings on the DRX serve NO SUPERIOR benefit despite claims! Just find someone who will give you intermittent Traction w/your insurance, & preferably with the use of the ATM2 if needed.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

so you are saying Medical Insurance covers Traction as a therapy ? 

Does the Insurance usually Pay 100% of the cost ?

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains Yes, but by calling it Decompression, a provider can charge whatever he wants because he can say insurance won't cover it. The insurance company was bamboozled for a cliche' stupid term... they just considered the name & the bells and whistles like any other laymen and assigned it a code that is non-reimbursable enabling providers to charge cash instead.

[ProPTRehab]

If your insurance pay for physical therapy or chiro., it is a normal charge. If you have a co-pay or deductible, you have to consider that. See what your policy covers. Some people have a co-pay as high as $50, some plans are better than others so you need to check your policy. It's like asking if they pay for manual therapy; they all do, but we are all at the mercy of your health plan.

[LegPains]

@ProPTRehab

i currently dont have any Insurance, but if i knew it would fully Pay for my Therapy than i would get it

[ProPTRehab]

@LegPains Don't get caught up on the name of the machine. Just make sure you can lye on your stomach or your back and have that choice. It doesn't matter the make of the machine. The bells and whistles and lies piss me off!

[chirodocheilman]

@LegPains Both videos are flawed

[chirodocheilman]

@LegPains Cox table is good, but it works best for stretching the musculature. It does not use the back harnessing system, it does not have the computer measure the pull, it does not have the feedback loop, it is better for stretching the back muscles, but not quite as effective at stretching the disc.

The Kennedy Neuroflex table is capable of performing flexion distraction

[LegPains]

@chirodocheilman

Yes ive heard the Kennedy table is excellent, whats your Opinion on my MRI ? it says

" straightening of the Lumbar lordosis,  shallow disc bulge at L4 L5, loss of water content at L5 S1 which also shows a bilateral broad based protrusion in contact with the dural sac and encroachment into the neural foramina

[chirodocheilman]

@LegPains Was your MRI laying down or upright? I never use MRI to evaluate alignment (ie straightening of the L/S).

Decompression therapy does not rely on an MRI. Ideal evaluation of your range of motion deficits and Directional preferences of your disc will assist your evaluator in selecting the appropriate positioning for Spinal Decompression, ATM2, or Cox Flexion Distraction.

A shallow disc bulge, dehydrated disc, protrusions generally improve w. appropriate decompression therapy.

[LegPains]

@chirodocheilman

it was Laying down. Ive already tried the DRX 9000 machine and got zero results  ffrom it. Also for your Understanding i have NO pain in my back or feet, its only in my Legs.

[nilesriver2]

it didn't hurt during the stretch though....only after (about 12 hours or so)

[LegPains]

@nilesriver2

watch vids on DRX 9000

[nilesriver2]

I may have used this in therapy. they put a belt on me and stretched me. The nest day the pain was bad down my right leg. the crazy part is that normaly the pain is down my left side and into my foot. It may not have been the same thing but the pain continued for two weeks or so then went back to only my left leg.???? I may be willing to try it again, maybe they went to hard.

[spazbloke]

i thought this would be a bike crash or somethin

[LegPains]

@spazbloke

DRX  9000