@HomuncuIus jajajajaja yea. trannys should stick to moaning and not blaspheming! do something theyre good at at least! lol a mans got to know his limitations! 23 yr old tranny punk gonna save the world with luciferian doctrine! PERFECT! +++
@ODST1123 A god that would murder with impunity is sick, and a human who'd bow to such infamy is sicker still. I wonder, why can you not accept that the plague and influenza are nothing more than functions of the natural world? Why do you have to put some supernatural spin on an obviously natural phenomenon?
@dagda825 well im a catholic but i wont deny our god loves violence and war, why else would he cause war after war and plague after plague of death, i guess he is sick but everything he does is in our best interest we have 7billion people on this planet the earth can only healthfully support around 3 at max thats a good explanation to me
@hevy99 hey dumbass i call you a troll because you are a troll nothing you said before made any sense what so ever, again go crawl back to your troll cave
@ODST1123 of course it doesnt. You must posses some comprehension skills to even voice an opinion. Go crawl back in ur luciferian hole and consult the devil. im sure he will console you plenty, MORON+++
@ODST1123 Well 4one thing, ur luciferian free masonry logo is a dead giveaway. another confused atheist does not know the meaning of terms, jumps to conclusions, ridicules what he doesnt understand, puts words in peoples mouths out of blind ignorance, and is reduced to kindergarten name calling, comes along with the banner of unbelief and bandwagon of deceit uve managed to willfully jump on. Cant say i envy you in the least.+++
I'm not sure I understand why people engage in these sort of debates. I can understand why someone is atheist themselves, and I CERTAINLY understand why someone would challenge fanatical religious groups that seek to infringe on civil liberties, or to commit horrific acts of genocide, but why attack the belief in god in general? So what if God doesn't exist and certain people have silly beliefs? If we successfully ruin their faith, are we going to take the time to teach them a new way of life?
@ffreplica515 It's not about a person's faith in god or not, it's about people either actively or passively allowing their superstitions to pollute the body politic. A case in point being the restrictions placed on stem cell research for no other reason than religion says it's wrong. If it's wrong, then don't participate but don't bully the rest of us with those beliefs.
@dagda825 Right, I totally get that - that's not cool at all. I just think we as people are capable of creating a society where religion/faith is kept completely separate from politics, while at the same time respecting our friends and fellows rights to believe anything they want to believe, and not belittle them for it. For example I think referring to someone's faith as a "superstition" is highly disrespectful, but moreover isn't conducive to getting anything meaningful accomplished.
@ffreplica515 I disagree, respectfully. Religion has been a millstone around the neck of a truly egalitarian society and, in the 21st century it's time we as humans relieve ourselves of that enigma. It serves no purpose to condemn another's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness merely to appease a bronze age myth. I am sorry if this is offensive, but it must be said. The day of some extranormal being died at the age of enlightenment and ZJ should not suffer any more
@ffreplica515 Because the reliance in a "god" bifurcates the ultimate goal a world of humans together, in peace and motivated toward the betterment of humans. It's really that simple.
@dagda825 But can't a distinction be made between organized religions that unjustly and harmfully meddle in societal institutions and just a belief in god in general? For example several studies show that a belief in god and diligent persistent prayer elicits a higher recovery rate from a wide array of near fatal ailments. Furthermore, a belief in God is used as a corner stone for many drug and alcohol recovery programs - and without
@dagda825 a belief in a God or Higher Power, many more of these men and women would be drunk, or dead. How about the grieving parents, or spouse, that find meaning in tragedy through a belief in God when their loved ones die and decide life is still worth living? Just to be clear, i am NOT suggesting for one minute that an actual God helps cancer patients recover, or alcoholics straighten out their lives, or grieving parents find meaning in tragedy.
@ffreplica515 oh ye of no faith. big surprise! ur right at home with zinnia then. maybe you can pray to her/him /it...4 salvation then. unless of course you think ur perfect and above GODs judgement. in which case is rather retarded either way you choose to look at it, no? oh. i forgot. thats a "free thinkers" LOGIC. almost forgot! how silly of me! lmfao!+++
@hevy99 Shouldn't you be more careful about cursing, since your god is evil incarnate and chomping at the bit to damn you to hell for cursing? You know, the difference between your ilk and mine is: we encourage your freedoms and you seek to destroy ours. That's the pinnacle of religion today: "Think my way or DIE FUCKER!!!!". At least have the maturity to say "fuck" when you mean it, and not bastardise it in hopes of getting one over on your god.
@ffreplica515 How about understanding that life, all life, is precious and finite and that once it's gone, it's gone for good and there's no going back? Where's the good in belief that a life wasted is not really wasted at all, but with a fairy prince (or a god) in summer land? How absurd that is; how disrespecting of the life lost by deluding oneself that it's not really gone, but merely transfigured.
@dagda825 so rather than letting someone get comfort in their belief in God during times of struggle, we should explain to them why their philosophy of life is inferior to ours? That sounds like complete self-seeking arrogance used for the sole purpose of bolstering one's ego. My point isn't that a belief in God is a logically strong belief, my point is that if this belief isn't harming anyone else, and is in fact BENEFITING the individual, we should not challenge it. agree to disagree :)
@ffreplica515 There's nothing ego seeking on my part. Let's part as friends then as your argument is understood, but incorrect. Unfortunately it's this very belief that robbed me and my family of a member who's only "crime" was that she was a lesbian and that didn't fit her murderer's view on life. Life is cheapened when one holds that there is existence beyond this plane, and her killer believed as my detractors in this thread do. My hope is that one day we all know Life.
@dagda825 sorry for your loss, but I still strongly disagree with you. I don't think a belief in God killed your sister, I think a deranged human being did. I won't argue on a subject that sensitive though, and I don't want to continue debating with you - i think we just about hit the circular track, but hopefully we learned a little bit from each other. take care, i enjoyed this (except hearing about your sister of course)
@dagda825 didn't see the first half of your response to me. had i seen it i probably wouldn't have responded to it in an attempt to get a few more points in. sorry about that. take care
@dagda825 What I am suggesting is that the BELIEF in god, can be a healthy and useful thing that benefits large groups of people without stepping on the toes of others. My question is this: why challenge THEIR belief?
@ffreplica515 A belief in something that is wrong on it's face is neither noble nor worthy of respect. Any who'd condemn another for any reason is the epitome of evil in our world, no matter the title they choose for their works. To understand the poverty of belief, you need only read the replies to my comments in this tread to understand the abject lunacy of those who's delusions have usurped their capacity for reason. They are the ture face of "faith" and are bankrupted.
You can talk all you want, but God will decide that you go to hell if you are believing what you believe now. So good luck with that! A true miracle is if you go to heaven after believing what you believe. Mkk, bye he/she.
@dagda825 sorry. im into ur ten gallon bullcrap nonsence comment about as much as im into zinnias opinion. evidently your right at home here! good luck with hypothetical views of nothing. should get you far.+++
God's cure rate appears to be lower than the rate of spontaneous remission. You have a better chance of surviving if you *don't* use this miracle water.
Yeah, um, God was on break from healing people when those people were killed/died. It's perfectly reasonable. I mean nobody can work nonstop without taking a break here and there. =P
so, you expect mankind to be fed by a silver spoon? take a look at all the disasters you pointed out, some of them are caused by man, therefore, man should be taught a lesson
Everybody dies ZJ, even the ones who may have received a miracle. It's not like all those millions of people you are referring to would been alive today if God did something. All you're proving is, there is evil in the world which coincidentally is biblical.
Btw. those millions of killings were done by atheists
I would like to say that if this guy does believe in god then why does he make all of these videos like hes so upset that other people do believe in god? that is the same thing as me going out and making videos getting upset that all the 7 years olds in the world believe in the easter bunny.. obviously hes not real and people believe in him.. but i know hes not real so i ignore it.. this guy is just trying to bring attention to himself.. other wise he wouldnt care
@ZJemptv: For the sake of argument let's say that God exists and intervenes with the world. Pretending that these are true for a second could you take a look at something?
This looks like normal physics: watch?v=Jzfj4R52Q6I
This is something that isn't supposed to exist: watch?v=TufKcBa5RaI
And this is the nature of the wave-function in the first video when combined Roger Penrose's concept of Orch-OR: watch?v=Kj8UdHuP5l8
Please tell me what you think of all of this. I'm rather curious.
@IoPizzaPlanet . i noticed a comment in Zjemptv channel from you you are talking about something that does not exist . are you refering to albert einstein's theroy of special relitivity where nothing is faster then light now being challanged ? if so i think its great, and i know Albert would be very happy . as one of his famous quotes goes " if we knew what we were doing it wouldnt be called research. would it ! ". as far as being a god not afer the big bang is there a need for one
Zinnia Jones this world isn't perfect many things are going to happen in this world that we will dislike he can't heal everything because if he did then we'd rely on him constantly instead of working out problems on our own. God doesn't want us to count on him to fix everything he wants us to experience life
Instead of you telling them to come to their senses no offense
But why don't you stop bashing on something you don't believe in
This video makes a lot of sense. Even applicable to Jesus' miracles: If he could heal a blind person, why not heal blindness? Why only a few random people? The more videos of ZJemptv I watch, the more I like him/her (yes, I am indeed gender-confused).
@Ray01Geogeass If Jesus' mission was to prove he was (the son of) god, he failed miserably. Ask any muslim or jew or hindu or atheist. On the other hand, had he succeeded, he would have removed the need for faith, wouldn't he? And why would he require so much time to heal blindness? If he was (an omnipotent) god, he could just snap his fingers to do the job. Lastly, resurrecting certainly doesn't prove he is god, especially considering the frequency of resurrections at that time and place.
@vattensvin I don't know if thats really possible I mean many ppl have diffrent characteristics for a god. Whether he could snap his fingers and heal blindness neither of us know. I just can't see him failing miserably he performed the mircale of healing blindness if that happened then would everyone believe him? If thats the case then what would be the point of crucifiction or any of it? What resurrections are you talking about friend?
@Ray01Geogeass He failed in proving so, since we aren't all christians. If he wasn't *able* to heal blindness, or say, cure all children with cancer instantly, he wouldn't be god, or god wouldn't be omnipotent. Or he could, but didn't, which reveals his shameful priorities. And yes, the crucifixion was pointless, see ZJ:s video "The meaningless death of Jesus". Lazarus and the daughter of Jairus were raised, see also Matthew 27:52-53. Many resurrections, none of whom were divinely conceived.
@vattensvin He proved to many but some don't believe he can't control their beliefs but he can give u a way to follow it's he himself can't make the choice for u whether you can to follow him. Once again fixing every problem in the world isn't what life is about. We as humans go through hardships and at times we expirience words we can't define such as joy and happines at other times we experience sorrow and pain. The cricificixion was a way of showing who he is and it's up to us to choose
@Ray01Geogeass 1.Had Jesus provided evidence, it wouldn't be up to us to believe or not. It would be a fact. Japan is on the northern hemisphere - we have evidence. One cannot "believe" or "disbelieve" this. It is a fact. Jesus being god isn't. So he failed in proving so. Crucifixion and resurrection (even if true) don't prove anything - I thought I made that clear. 2.That he removes pain in some few cases, but not in millions of others, shows his bad priorities. This is what Zinna (and I) mean.
1. He accomplished in making many believe it IS up to us thats another choice in life choosing what you believe atheism or religion or many others.
2. Like I said again this world isn't perfect how do we know that these ppl that were "supposedly" healed by god were healed how do we know this couldn't have been coincidence? I'm not doubting him just saying it's not always him (but hey you and zinnia can believe what you want)
@Ray01Geogeass 1. Since when can you "choose" to believe something? Don't you need reasons to believe that something is actually true, and not just wishful thinking, or an illusion or hallucination or dream or myth? And you cannot "believe" in atheism - it simply entails unbelief in extraordinary claims that don't even have ordinary evidence. It is just an admission of the obvious. But this is slowly moving away from the topic of miracles.
@vattensvin 1. You could always choose friend. YOur reasons for believeing in that choice are yours. Many choose to follow atheism if you found my sentence a poor choice of words for that I apologize. LEt's go with follow atheism or so. Like I said your choice no one else can make that for you. YOu choose to believe in something based on many things you were born into it or decided to take a diffrent path from others you love. I agree we should get back to the topic
@Ray01Geogeass 2. I think they are ALL "coincidences", but even if only some are, the remaining cases still demonstrates very bad priorities from the healer, which doesn't make sense. To include god in the explanations only raises more questions than it answers. Everything will fall in place and make sense if you remove god - and I think I know why.
@vattensvin If they're ALL coincidences then my point goes back to how life isn't about god fixing every problem there is. To include him is a way of how do I say this? Um to include god is a way of explaining those "miracles" when ppl don't have an answer. As humans we try and come up with an answer for everything but it's just not possible. To many it would make sense to remove god and at the same time for many ppl it makes sense to place god in the blank spots. Pls explain what u think u know
@Ray01Geogeass "Either something is true or it isn't. If it is true, you should believe it, and if it isn't, you shouldn't. If you can't find out whether it is true or not, you should suspend judgement" (Russell). Placing god in the blank spots doesn't explain anything. On the contrary, it raises more questions than it answers. If this "makes sense" to some people, these people are clearly not interested in a pursuit of knowledge. And that's fine, we're all different. I have nothing more to say.
@vattensvin To you it wouldn't explain anything but thats just a case where one thing will make sense to one but not the other. It's just like religion and atheism if you catch my drift. They're not interested in the pursuit of knowledge? Well who are we to assume that they have no logical reason for their claim? We're all diffrent yes this I know and your comments have already proven that for me. Goodbye to you aswell if you really mean it
@Ray01Geogeass I enjoy this discussion, so I don't mind continuing. If it makes sense to some people to believe that creatures from Alpha Centauri are beaming them messages of world peace through their hair-dryer, who are we to assume that they don't have logical reasons for it? In terms of pursuing knowledge and understanding of how the world works, this is equally insane as "placing god in the blank spots". That it "makes sense" to some people doesn't make it less insane.
@vattensvin Like I said how are we to assume that they don't have any logical explanation when they place god in blank spots? It doesn't make it more insane to them because it's their through eyes. Who knows maybe our thoughts on a subject doesn't make sense to them but it's up to us to show them our explanation
@Ray01Geogeass The vikings thought that the explanation to thunder and lightning is Thor in the sky using his hammer. That may have made sense in the pre-scientific time. But we all know how much that belief contributed to our understanding of meteorological phenomena. And to do the same in the 21st century clearly advertises an unwillingness to understand and pursue knowledge. Insanity through the eyes of the insane probably makes sense. Who are we to assume? We are rational human beings.
@vattensvin Knowledge through YOUR eyes my friend not theirs what if they asked you to try and explore their side of it and you said no. That could be the exact thing you claim they do Unwilling to understand and pursue knowledge
@Ray01Geogeass The explanation to thunder is not Thor. We don't have to sacrifice animals to the sun god to make sure the sun will rise tomorrow. The world is not flat. All these things are false. How can you call these or "placing god in the blank spots" knowledge? What does it even mean to explore their side of "god did it"? To avoid looking for a rational explanation to things because "god did it" is a fundamental dishonesty to intellectual integrity. "Knowledge through their eyes" - please!
@vattensvin Um excuse me but the world IS flat and you just grouped it in things that are not true. Back then I guess b4 logic was created they didn't really have an explanation for them so those following statements as an explanation for such things they could'nt answer.What does it mean you ask? To explore their side of the logic they have behind the claims that they create. I could do well without the please at the end thank you very much
ZJ, you're such an idiot. If in fact a cruel god exists and has absolute power over the Universe, your attitude would be the height of irrational stupidity. Your indignation at the cruelty of such a god would have absolutely no effect what soever except perhaps to attract the ire of such a being, which in itself would be utterly stupid. Do you think such a cruel being would be tolerant of your shaking your tiny, ineffectual fist in his face? LOL
religion isnt made to be rational smart one religion is made to give people reasons to live a good life a caring life a life even someone like you could benifit off of so quit complaining about how realistic it sounds that people like me belive this because the reason it exsists is to make us better and it does so fairly well.
Telling narrow minded christians to come to there senses when it comes to how god works is like trying to talk to with a zombie. They don't want to hear what you have to say they just want to make you into one of them.
You persist in the "argument from cruelty." Essentially, here's your argument: (1) if God exists, none of his actions would ever be truly cruel. (2) If God's actions SEEM cruel, then even though our knowledge and intelligence are limited, we may infer that they REALLY ARE cruel (3) Therefore since some of God's actions seem cruel, God must actually be cruel, therefore God cannot exist.
@kmsoileau Essentially, here's your argument: (1) If an argument is sound, it cannot contain a fallacy. (2) If ZJ's argument SEEMS to be fallacious, then even though our knowledge and intelligence are limited, we may infer that it REALLY IS fallacious. (3) Therefore since one of ZJ's conclusions seems fallacious, it must actually be fallacious, therefore the argument cannot be sound.
It's a fun game to play until you realize it can be played against any argument.
@kmsoileau Actually, that argument is logically sound, if (1) and (2) are to be taken as premises. Then again, pi only SEEMS to be transcendental due to our limitations, so the argument is still fallacious. :)
Joking aside, I think you got my point. If something seems to be the case after careful examination, you need to give additional arguments why that isn't actually true before dismissing it. You didn't really do that in the original post, and until you do, ZJ's points stand.
@KingKolunikus "If something seems to be the case after careful examination, you need to give additional arguments why that isn't actually true before dismissing it." First let me say that you bring up a very interesting point. However, the burden is on ZJ to provide adequate argument to dispel the suspicion that his premises are wrong. Either I correctly summarized ZJ's argument, or I didn't. If I correctly summarized his argument, it's up to him to verify the premises, not me. His points fail.
@kmsoileau Getting hard to keep track of all your replies. I'm trying to take note of all of them, though.
Anyway, the burden of proof with an existence claim is usually with the person arguing in favour of that claim. The "argument from cruelty" as you call it only serves to show in advance a possible contradiction that would follow from the properties of a certain concept of God, which would refute all claims of existence of that particular God.
@KingKolunikus The burden of proof idea is a purely human convention, having nothing to do with what actually exists and doesn't exist. Either God exists or doesn't exist.
@kmsoileau That's the beautiful difference between ontology and epistemology. God can exist to His heart's content and it might still be more reasonable from our point of view to assume that He doesn't. Likewise, He might not exist at all and it might still be more reasonable to think He does.
@KingKolunikus "pi only SEEMS to be transcendental" Actually, there exist perfectly rigorous proofs that pi cannot be the root of any polynomial with integer coefficients, thus pi is transcendental.
@kmsoileau Those proofs only SEEM to be rigorous. It's still possible someone made a mistake and no one noticed, what with our limited knowledge and all. :)
@KingKolunikus " If something seems to be the case after careful examination" Actually, "careful examination" has never been the gold standard for truth. One must show that something is absolutely true, not merely "carefully" investigate its veracity.
@kmsoileau Most statements cannot be proven absolutely. Even the so-called laws of logic are to a certain degree debatable. You can only ever prove relative inference between premises and conclusions within a given propositional calculus. Then again, you need to validate your premises. And so on until infinity.
Anyway. If a person behaves and talks like a d*ck all the time, it's more reasonable to assume he is one than not, with all limitations duly noted. Why should God be exempt from that?
@KingKolunikus "Why should God be exempt from that?" If God is not a super powerful being, then we can diss him all we want without penalty. The problem arises if God is a powerful dick, in which case it is EXTREMELY stupid to diss Him. It is this contingency that atheists like ZJ seem not to grasp.
Sigh. Once again, your benighted mind fails to understand something, so you try to heap your ignorant ridicule on it.
An analogy: When you plug a lamp's power cord into a socket, you may or may not get power to produce light from the lamp; the electric company may have interrupted service, etc. But you may indeed get light as a result of your action. If you do not plug in the lamp, you surely will not get light. Your action did not "spur" the power company.
1. I don’t want to stick up for anyone, I am an atheist but I put an honor in making my choices based on every argument I find, no matter what side it comes from. So even if it’s sad, depending on how you look at It I must admit that I see some logic in not saving some, but sparing others, though I can’t say I agree with the way “god” if it indeed is his work, chooses who to spare and who to allow to suffer.
2. Let’s say that god had prevented lots of wars we didn’t know would have even happened if “he” had not stepped in. how would we know right?, but even if that’s true I won’t make any religious choice based on the “what if”
3. If we should say “god” did spare someone, how would we know? It’s not like we can see that someone was suppose to die in an accident but was “saved” from that cruel fate. That is, taking into consideration that this “God” it’s a show-off who allows someone to almost die before saving them, just because he can. There is the possibility that many more we don’t know of would have died but didn’t.
4 Also life even if it’s cruel, dos contain certain amount of suffering, that fact won’t change (apparently) hole existence or not. But as it is now I understand who this is necessary.
5. As a priest once told me, something, something, I don’t quite remember but it is something along the lines that we can’t rely on god to save our asses all the time, and if we never “burn” ourselves we won’t learn to fear fire. Then “god” would have to “censure” everything in life because we wouldn’t be prepared for anything else.
Richard Kluklinski, hitman for the Gambino Family through the 70s and 80s: "..and he was "please-Goddin all over the place. Goin please God, please God help me. So I told him he could have 30 minutes and if God showed up I'd let him go. So I waited 30 minutes. God never showed up...so I killed him. It was sad..."
Lol what nobody tends to think is that the water has magical properties cause is connected to the elven world LOL (it's a joke ok?) and they're invading private property, and that's not mary that's Arwen! jijiji (I'm a mean person jijiji ITS A JOKE OK?)
every 4 seconds 1 person dies of malnutrition, every 20 seconds 1 baby is aborted, every 30 seconds 1 person dies of malaria... i know these statistics cuz thats the world... right now i believe in god... yet that god is the same to us as the slope of mount everest is to ants, that being said, the only real miracles that humanity can have r those created by humanity itself
@zithium Wishful thinking. I suppose if you can't come up with intelligent arguments, the next best thing is to say that your side will eventually win.
@zithium I would hope the people in the future don't laugh at those of us who are working against the spread of blind faith and corruption, because they'll damn well never exist without us.
@AndroBubbles I know, but it's just so pointless argueing about such a silly topic when, if you're lucky, only 1/10 people will see past their ignorance.
@Ehnalis i am a christian, but you need to be slowly burned at the state your hate. and as a Christan i can easily make the others zeolous enough to make it happen. While you are just spouting empty hate.
The way you're describing God reminds me of the lottery. A few winners, but millions of people sure they're going to win too. Completely random and unbiased. And some people's faith in their ultimate win goes as far to make things worse on them.
I'm really an agonistic but I'm so sick of this constant atheist ranting, which is done so stupidly it makes religious fundamentalists look sensible. Especially as this video, for example, is not constructive and serves no purpose other than to piss on people's beliefs.
Personally, I don't believe in miracles, but I envy those who do.
The Catholic church has way too much money. You would think that they would do more to benefit people instead of wasting money on stupid things such as investigating miracles and performing exorcisms.
There are people dying all over the world, women being raped, children being sold into sexual slavery, people being tortured for being LGBT, people living in shit conditions, etc... and God does nothing. God is an ass.
There are "miracles" that happen everyday on this planet and we don't notice. Example. As you start to discover the inner person inside someone that you know in a cursory, superficial, way, and as you go on along the path of this discovery, the way that person looks to you, changes day by day. From an ordinary face it is transformed into the most adorable face you know.
Rosie Jones You are the most beautiful face I have ever known. What you say comes straight from my heart.
I'm a gamer. I play alot of FPS (CoD, BF, BC, etc), some other kinda games too but shooting and fragging is my thing. Playing online shooters you occasionally run across a guy running a cheat. Aimboting or wallhacks usually. making up for a lack of personal skill I guess. Miracles seem like the equivalent, i.e. a cheat. Praying for a miracle then would equate (In my mind at least) to asking God for a cheat. What the hell kinda God condones cheating?
@GothicWiccan13 Like i said, zero percent chance of living. there was no chance she was going to live. and she did. so its not improbable because there was no probability she was going to live.
You are right, somehow, but if God is perfect he does not need our worshipping, our prayer, our churches, our priests and our money, in fact he does not need us. Ne needs nothing because he is the essence of the Universe, He is perfection itself. We cannot curse him or harm him in any way. He does not have any reason to care. And we are not in the position to judge him. Our world is just a point in the Infinite, just a trillionth of the Universe, which is infinitely smaller than God.
@esplin227 Yes, you are right. There is no need to worship Him. This is an obsolete idea; I am surprised it is brought into discussion. Religion is also an anachronism and a fashion in some countries, like Romania, where I live.
continued... from before, and that it was a "miracle" that she was still alive. there are only 4 main arteries, and 3 of hers were clogged, yet she was still alive. was the doctor wrong? was that not a miracle?
Another story, last year, my grandmother, who is 88 years old now, went into sever cardiac arrest. 3 of her main arteries were clogged. she went into a coma, and was quickly turning purple. I prayed to God, so that the best would happen, not for her to not die, but for the best. in tears i looked at her purple face, and begged for god to not let her suffer. 3 days later she came out of her coma, and was fine, 2 weeks later she came out. but the dr said her 3 main arteries, had been clogged from
What would be a miracle? according to the title of this video, you must have an opinion as to what a miracle would be. I have a story for you, 3 years ago, my Aunt went into cardiac arrest, and had severe liver failure, she had a zero percent chance of living, according to the doctors, so we all rushed to the hospital to say our goodbyes. But she didnt die, she lived, and is still alive today, is that a miracle? when all logic points to her dieing, she lived. is that a miracle?
I'd also like to add that Zinnia, himself, is a hypocrite. He's greatly outspoken against the Salvation Army for funding anti-gay movements. Well, guess what? ... Someone has just the right to think homosexuality is wrong as they are to think it's right. Sounds like this kid has a lot of growing up to do ... if not, he'll become the very thing he opposes: an intolerant bigot.
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack Looks who's talking? Zinnia has every right to tell off the Salvation Army because of their discriminatory movements about gays. It's not like the Salvation army is aloud to say anything they want about gays & Zinnia can't say ANYTHING about them. Do you think it's right that only some people have the right to freedom of speech or something?
You are so ignorant and stupid. Like, girl you better be mad because God himself is doing something for me! Without him I wouldn't be living glorious years of life so how about you do yourself a favor and fall back straight in hell.
great post, although i suggest reading c. s. lewis' defense of interventionist god. not that i agree with his view. but it did make me think twice before outright rejecting interventionist view. as for problem of pain. there are versions of Christianity that doesn't not hold to anthrocentric ethics. some hold to cosmocentric this. things that hurt man does not necessarily hurt earth or the cosmos. God so loved the WORLD, not man.
This is basic rhetoric that only children concern themselves with.
"Mommy, why does God let bad things happen?"
Seriously, get over it. I'm not religious, or atheist, or even agnostic —fuck labels—but I will say this: You don't believe in a spiritual reality because bad things happen, well how the fuck are you supposed to know happiness without sadness? How do you appreciate health without sickness? You idiots worshiping this Zinnia (and that's exactly what you do) need to use your brain.
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack And by "using your brain" you really meant "agree with me or else you are stupid cause that's what I imply". You just came up with an argument (how will you know happiness without sadness) and thought to yourself "wow I'm so smart! I should totally write that down!!" (and then passed the weed to your friend next to you) and decided to write it down as a comment in youtube in order to look smart cause we all know youtube is the land of trolls and idiots.
@fablan6 Oh, fablan ... your argument might have some meat to it if you hadn't failed to completely realize that I was actually encouraging you and your friends to think for yourself. You see, that's the great irony of modern atheism ... it spreads just like religion. Richard Dawkins is the Pope ... and Zinnia, here, is desperately hoping to obtain the level of Bishop someday. .... (continues) ....
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack I am thinking for myself and that's why I encourage this kid and support him when I see his videos. What you where doing is telling us that whoever supports him is an idiot who obviously doesn't think for him/herself. Don't try to change your sayings now just so that you'll look nice and I'll look stupid. I read your comment very careful. At least have the balls to support your own beliefs when the shit hits the fan. Oh, and I'm not an atheist by the way. You where saying?
@fablan6 .... (continued) .... The vast majority of atheists are clueless to what free thought actually is (hint: it's not hanging on every word of these outspoken critics). While Zinnia and other pompous know-it-alls preach logic and reason (two concepts without an absolute definition, requiring belief in their existence to exist at all. Oh, the irony), I only ask you to question EVERYTHING, both the religious AND anti-religious. ... (continues) ....
@fablan6 ...(continued) ....So if you think I'm forcing my opinion on you because I ask you to set yourself free, then by all means continue. You'll get it eventually. Cheers! :)
PS ... If your looking to bash people trying to act smart, why the hell are you talking to me? Have you even seen this Zinnia guy? I mean ... we see the kid looking at his prearranged discourse, and those subtle edits that make the video look seamless. Why are all these atheist videos like that? It boggles the mind ...
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack I guess you are just trying to oppose everyone and then attack them so that you will look as some kind of a hero. We are all idiots for listening to that guy's logical statements but if we were religious we would also be idiots according to you. You have agnostic views as I see (I am agnostic too but you didn't realise it apparently) but you fail miserably in doing what you are doing. You simply found someone with different beliefs than yours and you bash him no matter what
@fablan6 QUOTE: "You simply found someone with different beliefs than yours and you bash him no matter what"
Atheists don't claim beliefs, or haven't you heard? I only want to inform people that whether atheist or religious...our lives are built upon the foundations of accepted beliefs. Someone talking about God or Reason is still talking about an entirely abstract concept with no definite dimensions. I SUPPORT ATHEISM. I SUPPORT RELIGION. I don't support one side talking shit about the other.
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack An atheist has different beliefs on religion than a theist or an agnostic. But you are obviously trolling right now, pretending you don't understand what I mean and/or pretending you don't understand that atheists believe there is no god and this is their statement on the subject 'religion' in order to make me sound wrong and you right. It doesn't work since I am not 3 years old. Old mind tricks that don't work after a while won't work here either.
@fablan6 Fine argument you have there. Resort to name calling when you have nothing worthwhile to offer. If you think I'm 'pretending' I don't understand that atheists don't believe in god(s) .... then either you're having trouble understanding the English language, or you're purposely acting dense in an effort to provoke. Either way, you have a long way to go, kid.
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack Name calling? You probably refer to "trolling" which shows that you are either extremely prude and take that as "name calling" or you are just trying to make me look bad (again) since you can't win the argument in any other way. Especially coming from a guy that said "You idiots worshiping this Zinnia...". Now go and hide under a rock.
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HomuncuIus 2 weeks ago
@HomuncuIus jajajajaja yea. trannys should stick to moaning and not blaspheming! do something theyre good at at least! lol a mans got to know his limitations! 23 yr old tranny punk gonna save the world with luciferian doctrine! PERFECT! +++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 You do understand that Lucifer is a Roman god, right?
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@ZJemptv nobody was healed from the plague because god gave them the plague for a reason, and other pandemics
ODST1123 2 weeks ago
@ODST1123 A god that would murder with impunity is sick, and a human who'd bow to such infamy is sicker still. I wonder, why can you not accept that the plague and influenza are nothing more than functions of the natural world? Why do you have to put some supernatural spin on an obviously natural phenomenon?
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 well im a catholic but i wont deny our god loves violence and war, why else would he cause war after war and plague after plague of death, i guess he is sick but everything he does is in our best interest we have 7billion people on this planet the earth can only healthfully support around 3 at max thats a good explanation to me
ODST1123 2 weeks ago
@ODST1123 ur not Catholic, JUST CONFUSED!+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 not really, im pretty sure i know my own religion, lol
ODST1123 2 weeks ago
@ODST1123 if you follow religion ur probably already lacking FAITH+++
hevy99 1 week ago
@hevy99 everything your saying doesnt make sense
ODST1123 1 week ago
@ODST1123 it wouldnt to a free mason shyt head.
hevy99 1 week ago
@hevy99 your just a retarded fucking troll, go back to your cave
ODST1123 1 week ago
@ODST1123 luciferian children are always reduced to kindergarten name calling when backed into a corner, this gets boring. GROW UP! +++
hevy99 1 week ago
@hevy99 hey dumbass i call you a troll because you are a troll nothing you said before made any sense what so ever, again go crawl back to your troll cave
ODST1123 1 week ago
@ODST1123 of course it doesnt. You must posses some comprehension skills to even voice an opinion. Go crawl back in ur luciferian hole and consult the devil. im sure he will console you plenty, MORON+++
hevy99 1 week ago
@hevy99 lol im a devil worshiper? ya because im totally not roman catholic, dumbass
ODST1123 1 week ago
@ODST1123 Well 4one thing, ur luciferian free masonry logo is a dead giveaway. another confused atheist does not know the meaning of terms, jumps to conclusions, ridicules what he doesnt understand, puts words in peoples mouths out of blind ignorance, and is reduced to kindergarten name calling, comes along with the banner of unbelief and bandwagon of deceit uve managed to willfully jump on. Cant say i envy you in the least.+++
hevy99 1 week ago
@hevy99 your a fucking idiot the only reason i use thats symbol is because i like assassins creed, jesus christ your so damn annoying
ODST1123 1 week ago
@ODST1123 Cross of Christ IS annoying to unbelieving little boys huh. Grow up kid. uve got a long way to go+++
hevy99 1 week ago
revolting tranny faggot
Bregowald 2 weeks ago
@Bregowald Revolting god worishiping human trash.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 where did you get god worshiping from? I am an atheist, faggot.
Bregowald 2 weeks ago
@Bregowald UR AN ATHEIST FAG? THEN UVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE W/ZINNIA HUH! LMFAO!+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@Bregowald If you're an atheist then I'm god. Get real.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 NICE PERSPECTIVE LUCIFER! +++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 Wow, so now I'm the shining star. That's quite an achievement for a mere mortal. Thanks!
dagda825 2 weeks ago
I'm not sure I understand why people engage in these sort of debates. I can understand why someone is atheist themselves, and I CERTAINLY understand why someone would challenge fanatical religious groups that seek to infringe on civil liberties, or to commit horrific acts of genocide, but why attack the belief in god in general? So what if God doesn't exist and certain people have silly beliefs? If we successfully ruin their faith, are we going to take the time to teach them a new way of life?
ffreplica515 4 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 It's not about a person's faith in god or not, it's about people either actively or passively allowing their superstitions to pollute the body politic. A case in point being the restrictions placed on stem cell research for no other reason than religion says it's wrong. If it's wrong, then don't participate but don't bully the rest of us with those beliefs.
dagda825 2 weeks ago in playlist Religion
@dagda825 Right, I totally get that - that's not cool at all. I just think we as people are capable of creating a society where religion/faith is kept completely separate from politics, while at the same time respecting our friends and fellows rights to believe anything they want to believe, and not belittle them for it. For example I think referring to someone's faith as a "superstition" is highly disrespectful, but moreover isn't conducive to getting anything meaningful accomplished.
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 I disagree, respectfully. Religion has been a millstone around the neck of a truly egalitarian society and, in the 21st century it's time we as humans relieve ourselves of that enigma. It serves no purpose to condemn another's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness merely to appease a bronze age myth. I am sorry if this is offensive, but it must be said. The day of some extranormal being died at the age of enlightenment and ZJ should not suffer any more
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 I THINK THATS WHY WE HAVE A FIRST AMMENDMENT. DAH. REGARDLESS OF HOW BACKWARD UR LUCIFERIAN OPINIONS AND MINDSET IS+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 Do you have to yell all the time?
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 LOL
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 Because the reliance in a "god" bifurcates the ultimate goal a world of humans together, in peace and motivated toward the betterment of humans. It's really that simple.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 But can't a distinction be made between organized religions that unjustly and harmfully meddle in societal institutions and just a belief in god in general? For example several studies show that a belief in god and diligent persistent prayer elicits a higher recovery rate from a wide array of near fatal ailments. Furthermore, a belief in God is used as a corner stone for many drug and alcohol recovery programs - and without
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 yes its called FAITH! GET SOME!+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 a belief in a God or Higher Power, many more of these men and women would be drunk, or dead. How about the grieving parents, or spouse, that find meaning in tragedy through a belief in God when their loved ones die and decide life is still worth living? Just to be clear, i am NOT suggesting for one minute that an actual God helps cancer patients recover, or alcoholics straighten out their lives, or grieving parents find meaning in tragedy.
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 oh ye of no faith. big surprise! ur right at home with zinnia then. maybe you can pray to her/him /it...4 salvation then. unless of course you think ur perfect and above GODs judgement. in which case is rather retarded either way you choose to look at it, no? oh. i forgot. thats a "free thinkers" LOGIC. almost forgot! how silly of me! lmfao!+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 Shouldn't you be more careful about cursing, since your god is evil incarnate and chomping at the bit to damn you to hell for cursing? You know, the difference between your ilk and mine is: we encourage your freedoms and you seek to destroy ours. That's the pinnacle of religion today: "Think my way or DIE FUCKER!!!!". At least have the maturity to say "fuck" when you mean it, and not bastardise it in hopes of getting one over on your god.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 How about understanding that life, all life, is precious and finite and that once it's gone, it's gone for good and there's no going back? Where's the good in belief that a life wasted is not really wasted at all, but with a fairy prince (or a god) in summer land? How absurd that is; how disrespecting of the life lost by deluding oneself that it's not really gone, but merely transfigured.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 so rather than letting someone get comfort in their belief in God during times of struggle, we should explain to them why their philosophy of life is inferior to ours? That sounds like complete self-seeking arrogance used for the sole purpose of bolstering one's ego. My point isn't that a belief in God is a logically strong belief, my point is that if this belief isn't harming anyone else, and is in fact BENEFITING the individual, we should not challenge it. agree to disagree :)
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 There's nothing ego seeking on my part. Let's part as friends then as your argument is understood, but incorrect. Unfortunately it's this very belief that robbed me and my family of a member who's only "crime" was that she was a lesbian and that didn't fit her murderer's view on life. Life is cheapened when one holds that there is existence beyond this plane, and her killer believed as my detractors in this thread do. My hope is that one day we all know Life.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 sorry for your loss, but I still strongly disagree with you. I don't think a belief in God killed your sister, I think a deranged human being did. I won't argue on a subject that sensitive though, and I don't want to continue debating with you - i think we just about hit the circular track, but hopefully we learned a little bit from each other. take care, i enjoyed this (except hearing about your sister of course)
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 didn't see the first half of your response to me. had i seen it i probably wouldn't have responded to it in an attempt to get a few more points in. sorry about that. take care
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 Thank you, I mean that sincerely. Peace be with you and ALL of humanity.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 What I am suggesting is that the BELIEF in god, can be a healthy and useful thing that benefits large groups of people without stepping on the toes of others. My question is this: why challenge THEIR belief?
ffreplica515 2 weeks ago
@ffreplica515 A belief in something that is wrong on it's face is neither noble nor worthy of respect. Any who'd condemn another for any reason is the epitome of evil in our world, no matter the title they choose for their works. To understand the poverty of belief, you need only read the replies to my comments in this tread to understand the abject lunacy of those who's delusions have usurped their capacity for reason. They are the ture face of "faith" and are bankrupted.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
@dagda825 BIFURICATE THIS BUTTERNUT! JUST GETS DUMBER!+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 I'm sure you have a point to your blatherings...
dagda825 2 weeks ago
Your clothing is rather tame this time. I am disappoint.
Davness0 1 month ago
You can talk all you want, but God will decide that you go to hell if you are believing what you believe now. So good luck with that! A true miracle is if you go to heaven after believing what you believe. Mkk, bye he/she.
GinaLoveGargano 1 month ago
@ZJemptv WRONG AGAIN GENIUS! GOD is in control ALL THE TIME. its idiots like you who "MESS WITH THINGS"+++
hevy99 1 month ago
@hevy99 Well you got one thing right, Zinnia is indeed a genius...
Griffin9857 2 weeks ago
@Griffin9857 in what?
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 wow that was elucidating. Why don't you take your comments over to ShockOfGod or NephilimFree where your ideas are homologous.
dagda825 2 weeks ago in playlist Religion
@dagda825 sorry. im into ur ten gallon bullcrap nonsence comment about as much as im into zinnias opinion. evidently your right at home here! good luck with hypothetical views of nothing. should get you far.+++
hevy99 2 weeks ago
@hevy99 Thank you. I appreciate your well wishes.
dagda825 2 weeks ago
if hes real we are basically his fucking pet ants that he likes to screw with
mikey41rules 2 months ago
God's cure rate appears to be lower than the rate of spontaneous remission. You have a better chance of surviving if you *don't* use this miracle water.
RickySTT 2 months ago
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blessenyt 2 months ago
Yeah, um, God was on break from healing people when those people were killed/died. It's perfectly reasonable. I mean nobody can work nonstop without taking a break here and there. =P
YoungMoney4280 3 months ago
i must have miss something in this comment someone cant think the world is flat do they ?
William81Edge10 4 months ago
so, you expect mankind to be fed by a silver spoon? take a look at all the disasters you pointed out, some of them are caused by man, therefore, man should be taught a lesson
assassin1911kya 4 months ago
If God made all of us, then why do we have belly buttons? If God made us then why are we born? Adam and Eve/Steve where created out of dirt.
LLOYD19851012 5 months ago
@LLOYD19851012 I thought it was adam was created from dirt and eve was created from adam's rib?
Well we had to start somewhere right?
Ray01Geogeass 4 months ago
Everybody dies ZJ, even the ones who may have received a miracle. It's not like all those millions of people you are referring to would been alive today if God did something. All you're proving is, there is evil in the world which coincidentally is biblical.
Btw. those millions of killings were done by atheists
ksmdfi 5 months ago
I would like to say that if this guy does believe in god then why does he make all of these videos like hes so upset that other people do believe in god? that is the same thing as me going out and making videos getting upset that all the 7 years olds in the world believe in the easter bunny.. obviously hes not real and people believe in him.. but i know hes not real so i ignore it.. this guy is just trying to bring attention to himself.. other wise he wouldnt care
pholmes113 5 months ago
he acts like hes smart and knows what hes saying but if you watch his eyes hes just reading off the screen
pholmes113 5 months ago
Nice one.
Lainey37 5 months ago
let ppl believe in what they want. u want to b accepted as u r, well accept others as they r b tolerant to their believes.
tatidel87 5 months ago
Please can someone tell me where ZJemptv's jacket is from?
I think I'm in love.
EloraSmith 5 months ago
@GaaraPunkMuffin You have said something ><
EloraSmith 5 months ago
@ZJemptv: For the sake of argument let's say that God exists and intervenes with the world. Pretending that these are true for a second could you take a look at something?
This looks like normal physics: watch?v=Jzfj4R52Q6I
This is something that isn't supposed to exist: watch?v=TufKcBa5RaI
And this is the nature of the wave-function in the first video when combined Roger Penrose's concept of Orch-OR: watch?v=Kj8UdHuP5l8
Please tell me what you think of all of this. I'm rather curious.
IoPizzaPlanet 5 months ago 10
@IoPizzaPlanet . i noticed a comment in Zjemptv channel from you you are talking about something that does not exist . are you refering to albert einstein's theroy of special relitivity where nothing is faster then light now being challanged ? if so i think its great, and i know Albert would be very happy . as one of his famous quotes goes " if we knew what we were doing it wouldnt be called research. would it ! ". as far as being a god not afer the big bang is there a need for one
William81Edge10 4 months ago
@William81Edge10 "are you refering to albert einstein's theroy of special relitivity"
No, not that, something that is perhaps a little crazier than that. Here take a look: watch?v=TufKcBa5RaI
Watch this one first though: watch?v=Jzfj4R52Q6I
IoPizzaPlanet 4 months ago
(snicker) 3:29 You talking about our president?...lol
Ahh the irony
2eelShmeal 6 months ago
Zinnia Jones this world isn't perfect many things are going to happen in this world that we will dislike he can't heal everything because if he did then we'd rely on him constantly instead of working out problems on our own. God doesn't want us to count on him to fix everything he wants us to experience life
Instead of you telling them to come to their senses no offense
But why don't you stop bashing on something you don't believe in
and come to your own senses?
Ray01Geogeass 6 months ago
This video makes a lot of sense. Even applicable to Jesus' miracles: If he could heal a blind person, why not heal blindness? Why only a few random people? The more videos of ZJemptv I watch, the more I like him/her (yes, I am indeed gender-confused).
vattensvin 6 months ago
@vattensvin Well did he have that many days on earth to do so?
I mean he was going to be crucified and ressurected to show that he's the son of god
Many ppl wanted proof so he gave them proof correct?
Ray01Geogeass 6 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass If Jesus' mission was to prove he was (the son of) god, he failed miserably. Ask any muslim or jew or hindu or atheist. On the other hand, had he succeeded, he would have removed the need for faith, wouldn't he? And why would he require so much time to heal blindness? If he was (an omnipotent) god, he could just snap his fingers to do the job. Lastly, resurrecting certainly doesn't prove he is god, especially considering the frequency of resurrections at that time and place.
vattensvin 6 months ago
@vattensvin I don't know if thats really possible I mean many ppl have diffrent characteristics for a god. Whether he could snap his fingers and heal blindness neither of us know. I just can't see him failing miserably he performed the mircale of healing blindness if that happened then would everyone believe him? If thats the case then what would be the point of crucifiction or any of it? What resurrections are you talking about friend?
Ray01Geogeass 6 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass He failed in proving so, since we aren't all christians. If he wasn't *able* to heal blindness, or say, cure all children with cancer instantly, he wouldn't be god, or god wouldn't be omnipotent. Or he could, but didn't, which reveals his shameful priorities. And yes, the crucifixion was pointless, see ZJ:s video "The meaningless death of Jesus". Lazarus and the daughter of Jairus were raised, see also Matthew 27:52-53. Many resurrections, none of whom were divinely conceived.
vattensvin 6 months ago
@vattensvin He proved to many but some don't believe he can't control their beliefs but he can give u a way to follow it's he himself can't make the choice for u whether you can to follow him. Once again fixing every problem in the world isn't what life is about. We as humans go through hardships and at times we expirience words we can't define such as joy and happines at other times we experience sorrow and pain. The cricificixion was a way of showing who he is and it's up to us to choose
Ray01Geogeass 6 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass 1.Had Jesus provided evidence, it wouldn't be up to us to believe or not. It would be a fact. Japan is on the northern hemisphere - we have evidence. One cannot "believe" or "disbelieve" this. It is a fact. Jesus being god isn't. So he failed in proving so. Crucifixion and resurrection (even if true) don't prove anything - I thought I made that clear. 2.That he removes pain in some few cases, but not in millions of others, shows his bad priorities. This is what Zinna (and I) mean.
vattensvin 5 months ago
@vattensvin
1. He accomplished in making many believe it IS up to us thats another choice in life choosing what you believe atheism or religion or many others.
2. Like I said again this world isn't perfect how do we know that these ppl that were "supposedly" healed by god were healed how do we know this couldn't have been coincidence? I'm not doubting him just saying it's not always him (but hey you and zinnia can believe what you want)
Ray01Geogeass 5 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass 1. Since when can you "choose" to believe something? Don't you need reasons to believe that something is actually true, and not just wishful thinking, or an illusion or hallucination or dream or myth? And you cannot "believe" in atheism - it simply entails unbelief in extraordinary claims that don't even have ordinary evidence. It is just an admission of the obvious. But this is slowly moving away from the topic of miracles.
vattensvin 5 months ago
@vattensvin 1. You could always choose friend. YOur reasons for believeing in that choice are yours. Many choose to follow atheism if you found my sentence a poor choice of words for that I apologize. LEt's go with follow atheism or so. Like I said your choice no one else can make that for you. YOu choose to believe in something based on many things you were born into it or decided to take a diffrent path from others you love. I agree we should get back to the topic
Ray01Geogeass 5 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass 2. I think they are ALL "coincidences", but even if only some are, the remaining cases still demonstrates very bad priorities from the healer, which doesn't make sense. To include god in the explanations only raises more questions than it answers. Everything will fall in place and make sense if you remove god - and I think I know why.
vattensvin 5 months ago
@vattensvin If they're ALL coincidences then my point goes back to how life isn't about god fixing every problem there is. To include him is a way of how do I say this? Um to include god is a way of explaining those "miracles" when ppl don't have an answer. As humans we try and come up with an answer for everything but it's just not possible. To many it would make sense to remove god and at the same time for many ppl it makes sense to place god in the blank spots. Pls explain what u think u know
Ray01Geogeass 5 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass "Either something is true or it isn't. If it is true, you should believe it, and if it isn't, you shouldn't. If you can't find out whether it is true or not, you should suspend judgement" (Russell). Placing god in the blank spots doesn't explain anything. On the contrary, it raises more questions than it answers. If this "makes sense" to some people, these people are clearly not interested in a pursuit of knowledge. And that's fine, we're all different. I have nothing more to say.
vattensvin 5 months ago 5
@vattensvin To you it wouldn't explain anything but thats just a case where one thing will make sense to one but not the other. It's just like religion and atheism if you catch my drift. They're not interested in the pursuit of knowledge? Well who are we to assume that they have no logical reason for their claim? We're all diffrent yes this I know and your comments have already proven that for me. Goodbye to you aswell if you really mean it
Ray01Geogeass 5 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass I enjoy this discussion, so I don't mind continuing. If it makes sense to some people to believe that creatures from Alpha Centauri are beaming them messages of world peace through their hair-dryer, who are we to assume that they don't have logical reasons for it? In terms of pursuing knowledge and understanding of how the world works, this is equally insane as "placing god in the blank spots". That it "makes sense" to some people doesn't make it less insane.
vattensvin 5 months ago
@vattensvin Like I said how are we to assume that they don't have any logical explanation when they place god in blank spots? It doesn't make it more insane to them because it's their through eyes. Who knows maybe our thoughts on a subject doesn't make sense to them but it's up to us to show them our explanation
Ray01Geogeass 5 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass The vikings thought that the explanation to thunder and lightning is Thor in the sky using his hammer. That may have made sense in the pre-scientific time. But we all know how much that belief contributed to our understanding of meteorological phenomena. And to do the same in the 21st century clearly advertises an unwillingness to understand and pursue knowledge. Insanity through the eyes of the insane probably makes sense. Who are we to assume? We are rational human beings.
vattensvin 5 months ago
@vattensvin Knowledge through YOUR eyes my friend not theirs what if they asked you to try and explore their side of it and you said no. That could be the exact thing you claim they do Unwilling to understand and pursue knowledge
Ray01Geogeass 4 months ago
@Ray01Geogeass The explanation to thunder is not Thor. We don't have to sacrifice animals to the sun god to make sure the sun will rise tomorrow. The world is not flat. All these things are false. How can you call these or "placing god in the blank spots" knowledge? What does it even mean to explore their side of "god did it"? To avoid looking for a rational explanation to things because "god did it" is a fundamental dishonesty to intellectual integrity. "Knowledge through their eyes" - please!
vattensvin 4 months ago
@vattensvin Um excuse me but the world IS flat and you just grouped it in things that are not true. Back then I guess b4 logic was created they didn't really have an explanation for them so those following statements as an explanation for such things they could'nt answer.What does it mean you ask? To explore their side of the logic they have behind the claims that they create. I could do well without the please at the end thank you very much
Ray01Geogeass 4 months ago
haven't you seen bruce almighty? god was on vacation during the black plauge XD
sailornaruto39 6 months ago
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?" - Epicurus.
I feel like such a nerd.
InterferingDyke 6 months ago
ZJ, you're such an idiot. If in fact a cruel god exists and has absolute power over the Universe, your attitude would be the height of irrational stupidity. Your indignation at the cruelty of such a god would have absolutely no effect what soever except perhaps to attract the ire of such a being, which in itself would be utterly stupid. Do you think such a cruel being would be tolerant of your shaking your tiny, ineffectual fist in his face? LOL
kmsoileau 6 months ago
religion isnt made to be rational smart one religion is made to give people reasons to live a good life a caring life a life even someone like you could benifit off of so quit complaining about how realistic it sounds that people like me belive this because the reason it exsists is to make us better and it does so fairly well.
daviddwk 6 months ago
Telling narrow minded christians to come to there senses when it comes to how god works is like trying to talk to with a zombie. They don't want to hear what you have to say they just want to make you into one of them.
LOCUSTHATER666 6 months ago
Religion is big business. It is an age old service industry. You can't argue with a business that brings in the revenue that "Faith" brings in.
Avalon400 6 months ago
You persist in the "argument from cruelty." Essentially, here's your argument: (1) if God exists, none of his actions would ever be truly cruel. (2) If God's actions SEEM cruel, then even though our knowledge and intelligence are limited, we may infer that they REALLY ARE cruel (3) Therefore since some of God's actions seem cruel, God must actually be cruel, therefore God cannot exist.
Isn't logical fallacy fun?
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau Essentially, here's your argument: (1) If an argument is sound, it cannot contain a fallacy. (2) If ZJ's argument SEEMS to be fallacious, then even though our knowledge and intelligence are limited, we may infer that it REALLY IS fallacious. (3) Therefore since one of ZJ's conclusions seems fallacious, it must actually be fallacious, therefore the argument cannot be sound.
It's a fun game to play until you realize it can be played against any argument.
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus If what you are saying is true, then here's my proof that God exists:
(1) If pi is transcendental, then God exists.
(2) pi is transcendental.
(3) Therefore God exists.
I realize my argument SEEMS to be fallacious, but that's just due to our limited knowledge and intelligence.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau Actually, that argument is logically sound, if (1) and (2) are to be taken as premises. Then again, pi only SEEMS to be transcendental due to our limitations, so the argument is still fallacious. :)
Joking aside, I think you got my point. If something seems to be the case after careful examination, you need to give additional arguments why that isn't actually true before dismissing it. You didn't really do that in the original post, and until you do, ZJ's points stand.
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus "If something seems to be the case after careful examination, you need to give additional arguments why that isn't actually true before dismissing it." First let me say that you bring up a very interesting point. However, the burden is on ZJ to provide adequate argument to dispel the suspicion that his premises are wrong. Either I correctly summarized ZJ's argument, or I didn't. If I correctly summarized his argument, it's up to him to verify the premises, not me. His points fail.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau Getting hard to keep track of all your replies. I'm trying to take note of all of them, though.
Anyway, the burden of proof with an existence claim is usually with the person arguing in favour of that claim. The "argument from cruelty" as you call it only serves to show in advance a possible contradiction that would follow from the properties of a certain concept of God, which would refute all claims of existence of that particular God.
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus The burden of proof idea is a purely human convention, having nothing to do with what actually exists and doesn't exist. Either God exists or doesn't exist.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau That's the beautiful difference between ontology and epistemology. God can exist to His heart's content and it might still be more reasonable from our point of view to assume that He doesn't. Likewise, He might not exist at all and it might still be more reasonable to think He does.
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus "ontology and epistemology" These are just human constructs. God exists or doesn't exist, independently of any human mental processes.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus The "argument from cruelty" isn't my idea, it's ZJ's, and as such is his burden to defend.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus "pi only SEEMS to be transcendental" Actually, there exist perfectly rigorous proofs that pi cannot be the root of any polynomial with integer coefficients, thus pi is transcendental.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau Those proofs only SEEM to be rigorous. It's still possible someone made a mistake and no one noticed, what with our limited knowledge and all. :)
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus " If something seems to be the case after careful examination" Actually, "careful examination" has never been the gold standard for truth. One must show that something is absolutely true, not merely "carefully" investigate its veracity.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@kmsoileau Most statements cannot be proven absolutely. Even the so-called laws of logic are to a certain degree debatable. You can only ever prove relative inference between premises and conclusions within a given propositional calculus. Then again, you need to validate your premises. And so on until infinity.
Anyway. If a person behaves and talks like a d*ck all the time, it's more reasonable to assume he is one than not, with all limitations duly noted. Why should God be exempt from that?
KingKolunikus 6 months ago
@KingKolunikus "Why should God be exempt from that?" If God is not a super powerful being, then we can diss him all we want without penalty. The problem arises if God is a powerful dick, in which case it is EXTREMELY stupid to diss Him. It is this contingency that atheists like ZJ seem not to grasp.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
Sigh. Once again, your benighted mind fails to understand something, so you try to heap your ignorant ridicule on it.
An analogy: When you plug a lamp's power cord into a socket, you may or may not get power to produce light from the lamp; the electric company may have interrupted service, etc. But you may indeed get light as a result of your action. If you do not plug in the lamp, you surely will not get light. Your action did not "spur" the power company.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
1. I don’t want to stick up for anyone, I am an atheist but I put an honor in making my choices based on every argument I find, no matter what side it comes from. So even if it’s sad, depending on how you look at It I must admit that I see some logic in not saving some, but sparing others, though I can’t say I agree with the way “god” if it indeed is his work, chooses who to spare and who to allow to suffer.
brugernavn1231 6 months ago
2. Let’s say that god had prevented lots of wars we didn’t know would have even happened if “he” had not stepped in. how would we know right?, but even if that’s true I won’t make any religious choice based on the “what if”
brugernavn1231 6 months ago
3. If we should say “god” did spare someone, how would we know? It’s not like we can see that someone was suppose to die in an accident but was “saved” from that cruel fate. That is, taking into consideration that this “God” it’s a show-off who allows someone to almost die before saving them, just because he can. There is the possibility that many more we don’t know of would have died but didn’t.
brugernavn1231 6 months ago
4 Also life even if it’s cruel, dos contain certain amount of suffering, that fact won’t change (apparently) hole existence or not. But as it is now I understand who this is necessary.
brugernavn1231 6 months ago
5. As a priest once told me, something, something, I don’t quite remember but it is something along the lines that we can’t rely on god to save our asses all the time, and if we never “burn” ourselves we won’t learn to fear fire. Then “god” would have to “censure” everything in life because we wouldn’t be prepared for anything else.
brugernavn1231 6 months ago
Richard Kluklinski, hitman for the Gambino Family through the 70s and 80s: "..and he was "please-Goddin all over the place. Goin please God, please God help me. So I told him he could have 30 minutes and if God showed up I'd let him go. So I waited 30 minutes. God never showed up...so I killed him. It was sad..."
Abobojo 6 months ago
Lol what nobody tends to think is that the water has magical properties cause is connected to the elven world LOL (it's a joke ok?) and they're invading private property, and that's not mary that's Arwen! jijiji (I'm a mean person jijiji ITS A JOKE OK?)
fercychan 7 months ago
every 4 seconds 1 person dies of malnutrition, every 20 seconds 1 baby is aborted, every 30 seconds 1 person dies of malaria... i know these statistics cuz thats the world... right now i believe in god... yet that god is the same to us as the slope of mount everest is to ants, that being said, the only real miracles that humanity can have r those created by humanity itself
CyberFenix000 7 months ago
In 20 years, people are going to look back and laugh at the people even argueing about God.
zithium 7 months ago
@zithium Wishful thinking. I suppose if you can't come up with intelligent arguments, the next best thing is to say that your side will eventually win.
kmsoileau 6 months ago
@zithium I would hope the people in the future don't laugh at those of us who are working against the spread of blind faith and corruption, because they'll damn well never exist without us.
AndroBubbles 6 months ago
@AndroBubbles I know, but it's just so pointless argueing about such a silly topic when, if you're lucky, only 1/10 people will see past their ignorance.
zithium 6 months ago
"Follow the yellow-brick-road. Follow the yellow-brick-road"
DepressedAnnnie 7 months ago
I believe in God. I also believe in Aliens, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Smurfette.
Religion is awesome BS. And the best part? The best part for the priests, bishops, cardinals and all the rest?
It beats working for a living! Hell yes!!
brasso4u 7 months ago
i'm am an atheist, but this guy-girl-wtf-beeing needs to die..
Ehnalis 7 months ago
@Ehnalis i am a christian, but you need to be slowly burned at the state your hate. and as a Christan i can easily make the others zeolous enough to make it happen. While you are just spouting empty hate.
masluxx 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@masluxx nah, the only thing you can do is to molest our children and make money from it..
Ehnalis 7 months ago
The way you're describing God reminds me of the lottery. A few winners, but millions of people sure they're going to win too. Completely random and unbiased. And some people's faith in their ultimate win goes as far to make things worse on them.
TheCeejReturns 7 months ago
I'm really an agonistic but I'm so sick of this constant atheist ranting, which is done so stupidly it makes religious fundamentalists look sensible. Especially as this video, for example, is not constructive and serves no purpose other than to piss on people's beliefs.
Personally, I don't believe in miracles, but I envy those who do.
CarlMinez 7 months ago
The Catholic church has way too much money. You would think that they would do more to benefit people instead of wasting money on stupid things such as investigating miracles and performing exorcisms.
Chaoitcme 7 months ago
There are people dying all over the world, women being raped, children being sold into sexual slavery, people being tortured for being LGBT, people living in shit conditions, etc... and God does nothing. God is an ass.
Bluebelle9289 7 months ago
There are "miracles" that happen everyday on this planet and we don't notice. Example. As you start to discover the inner person inside someone that you know in a cursory, superficial, way, and as you go on along the path of this discovery, the way that person looks to you, changes day by day. From an ordinary face it is transformed into the most adorable face you know.
Rosie Jones You are the most beautiful face I have ever known. What you say comes straight from my heart.
azzy314159 8 months ago
"I want you to come to your senses". It had to happen.
Rosie Jones Pwns their gaad at last,
azzy314159 8 months ago
I'm a gamer. I play alot of FPS (CoD, BF, BC, etc), some other kinda games too but shooting and fragging is my thing. Playing online shooters you occasionally run across a guy running a cheat. Aimboting or wallhacks usually. making up for a lack of personal skill I guess. Miracles seem like the equivalent, i.e. a cheat. Praying for a miracle then would equate (In my mind at least) to asking God for a cheat. What the hell kinda God condones cheating?
ntstlkr 8 months ago
Basic misunderstanding of Christian theology, again.. you just keep doing it.
and as to the comment "and God does nothing" actually faith-based (across all faiths) charity outstripes all other charity by a massive margin.
Llywellyn94 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
atheists are the most vile creatures walking the planet.
mrtadreamer 8 months ago
"God's a kid with an ant farm, lady. He's not planning anything" - John Constantine.
BunrakukenIII 8 months ago
@GothicWiccan13 Like i said, zero percent chance of living. there was no chance she was going to live. and she did. so its not improbable because there was no probability she was going to live.
BunnyBUNGALO 9 months ago
You are right, somehow, but if God is perfect he does not need our worshipping, our prayer, our churches, our priests and our money, in fact he does not need us. Ne needs nothing because he is the essence of the Universe, He is perfection itself. We cannot curse him or harm him in any way. He does not have any reason to care. And we are not in the position to judge him. Our world is just a point in the Infinite, just a trillionth of the Universe, which is infinitely smaller than God.
Alexafinarul 9 months ago
@Alexafinarul So we don't need to worship him as he doesn't care one way or the other... Right?
esplin227 8 months ago
@esplin227 Yes, you are right. There is no need to worship Him. This is an obsolete idea; I am surprised it is brought into discussion. Religion is also an anachronism and a fashion in some countries, like Romania, where I live.
Alexafinarul 7 months ago
continued... from before, and that it was a "miracle" that she was still alive. there are only 4 main arteries, and 3 of hers were clogged, yet she was still alive. was the doctor wrong? was that not a miracle?
BunnyBUNGALO 9 months ago
Another story, last year, my grandmother, who is 88 years old now, went into sever cardiac arrest. 3 of her main arteries were clogged. she went into a coma, and was quickly turning purple. I prayed to God, so that the best would happen, not for her to not die, but for the best. in tears i looked at her purple face, and begged for god to not let her suffer. 3 days later she came out of her coma, and was fine, 2 weeks later she came out. but the dr said her 3 main arteries, had been clogged from
BunnyBUNGALO 9 months ago
What would be a miracle? according to the title of this video, you must have an opinion as to what a miracle would be. I have a story for you, 3 years ago, my Aunt went into cardiac arrest, and had severe liver failure, she had a zero percent chance of living, according to the doctors, so we all rushed to the hospital to say our goodbyes. But she didnt die, she lived, and is still alive today, is that a miracle? when all logic points to her dieing, she lived. is that a miracle?
BunnyBUNGALO 9 months ago
I'd also like to add that Zinnia, himself, is a hypocrite. He's greatly outspoken against the Salvation Army for funding anti-gay movements. Well, guess what? ... Someone has just the right to think homosexuality is wrong as they are to think it's right. Sounds like this kid has a lot of growing up to do ... if not, he'll become the very thing he opposes: an intolerant bigot.
Welcome to Atheism in the 21st Century ...
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack Looks who's talking? Zinnia has every right to tell off the Salvation Army because of their discriminatory movements about gays. It's not like the Salvation army is aloud to say anything they want about gays & Zinnia can't say ANYTHING about them. Do you think it's right that only some people have the right to freedom of speech or something?
MIDNAq1LINK 9 months ago
@MIDNAq1LINK
Can you read?!
I wrote, "Someone has just enough right to think homosexuality is wrong as they are to think it's right."
If that's too over your head, then you need to go back to the kiddies' table. :P
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
You are so ignorant and stupid. Like, girl you better be mad because God himself is doing something for me! Without him I wouldn't be living glorious years of life so how about you do yourself a favor and fall back straight in hell.
LadiSwagg895 9 months ago
troll
Phizzzzy 9 months ago
great post, although i suggest reading c. s. lewis' defense of interventionist god. not that i agree with his view. but it did make me think twice before outright rejecting interventionist view. as for problem of pain. there are versions of Christianity that doesn't not hold to anthrocentric ethics. some hold to cosmocentric this. things that hurt man does not necessarily hurt earth or the cosmos. God so loved the WORLD, not man.
brooss 9 months ago
This is basic rhetoric that only children concern themselves with.
"Mommy, why does God let bad things happen?"
Seriously, get over it. I'm not religious, or atheist, or even agnostic —fuck labels—but I will say this: You don't believe in a spiritual reality because bad things happen, well how the fuck are you supposed to know happiness without sadness? How do you appreciate health without sickness? You idiots worshiping this Zinnia (and that's exactly what you do) need to use your brain.
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack And by "using your brain" you really meant "agree with me or else you are stupid cause that's what I imply". You just came up with an argument (how will you know happiness without sadness) and thought to yourself "wow I'm so smart! I should totally write that down!!" (and then passed the weed to your friend next to you) and decided to write it down as a comment in youtube in order to look smart cause we all know youtube is the land of trolls and idiots.
fablan6 9 months ago
@fablan6 Oh, fablan ... your argument might have some meat to it if you hadn't failed to completely realize that I was actually encouraging you and your friends to think for yourself. You see, that's the great irony of modern atheism ... it spreads just like religion. Richard Dawkins is the Pope ... and Zinnia, here, is desperately hoping to obtain the level of Bishop someday. .... (continues) ....
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack I am thinking for myself and that's why I encourage this kid and support him when I see his videos. What you where doing is telling us that whoever supports him is an idiot who obviously doesn't think for him/herself. Don't try to change your sayings now just so that you'll look nice and I'll look stupid. I read your comment very careful. At least have the balls to support your own beliefs when the shit hits the fan. Oh, and I'm not an atheist by the way. You where saying?
fablan6 9 months ago
@fablan6 .... (continued) .... The vast majority of atheists are clueless to what free thought actually is (hint: it's not hanging on every word of these outspoken critics). While Zinnia and other pompous know-it-alls preach logic and reason (two concepts without an absolute definition, requiring belief in their existence to exist at all. Oh, the irony), I only ask you to question EVERYTHING, both the religious AND anti-religious. ... (continues) ....
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@fablan6 ...(continued) ....So if you think I'm forcing my opinion on you because I ask you to set yourself free, then by all means continue. You'll get it eventually. Cheers! :)
PS ... If your looking to bash people trying to act smart, why the hell are you talking to me? Have you even seen this Zinnia guy? I mean ... we see the kid looking at his prearranged discourse, and those subtle edits that make the video look seamless. Why are all these atheist videos like that? It boggles the mind ...
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack I guess you are just trying to oppose everyone and then attack them so that you will look as some kind of a hero. We are all idiots for listening to that guy's logical statements but if we were religious we would also be idiots according to you. You have agnostic views as I see (I am agnostic too but you didn't realise it apparently) but you fail miserably in doing what you are doing. You simply found someone with different beliefs than yours and you bash him no matter what
fablan6 9 months ago
@fablan6 QUOTE: "You simply found someone with different beliefs than yours and you bash him no matter what"
Atheists don't claim beliefs, or haven't you heard? I only want to inform people that whether atheist or religious...our lives are built upon the foundations of accepted beliefs. Someone talking about God or Reason is still talking about an entirely abstract concept with no definite dimensions. I SUPPORT ATHEISM. I SUPPORT RELIGION. I don't support one side talking shit about the other.
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack An atheist has different beliefs on religion than a theist or an agnostic. But you are obviously trolling right now, pretending you don't understand what I mean and/or pretending you don't understand that atheists believe there is no god and this is their statement on the subject 'religion' in order to make me sound wrong and you right. It doesn't work since I am not 3 years old. Old mind tricks that don't work after a while won't work here either.
fablan6 9 months ago
@fablan6 Fine argument you have there. Resort to name calling when you have nothing worthwhile to offer. If you think I'm 'pretending' I don't understand that atheists don't believe in god(s) .... then either you're having trouble understanding the English language, or you're purposely acting dense in an effort to provoke. Either way, you have a long way to go, kid.
End of conversation. Cheers! :)
TheGoodGuysWearBlack 9 months ago
@TheGoodGuysWearBlack Name calling? You probably refer to "trolling" which shows that you are either extremely prude and take that as "name calling" or you are just trying to make me look bad (again) since you can't win the argument in any other way. Especially coming from a guy that said "You idiots worshiping this Zinnia...". Now go and hide under a rock.
fablan6 9 months ago