What a shame Howe didn't use his considerable intelligence to thwart Thatcher's dire anti northern blitzkrieg. She made life intolerable for my community. This came years too late. Howe got all worked up about foreign policy but showed little passion for his own countrymen. Hypocrite.
When Thatcher and Regan got together it was not to meeting of the minds like the Conservatives in the UK and the Republicans in the US thought it was like an ape and feces in the a room of fans you knew that it was going to hit the fan
Poor Heseltine, imagine the amount he could've made had he kept that Cabinet Minister's salary for four more years instead of resigning mainly in preparation for a fruitless leadership challenge
Coup d'etat? Last time I checked, the Queen of England was called Elizabeth, not Margaret. One offiicial being replaced by another seems nothing spectecular, no matter how big-headed the one being replaced had become!
Neither Howe nor Heseltine were ever taken seriously on a worldwide level, simply because they were always Maggie's little minions. John Major was as well but he didn't have time enough to become an enemy.
This new is in the newspaper!Así, el endeudamiento del sector público en 2008 fue de 99,2% del PIB en Grecia, 52% en Gran Bretaña y 39.7% en España.
YOU REALLY NEED THE OIL!We will see what happend if you can not find oil? OR maybe you could piratear another country to steal their resources.What happen in Irak and Afganistand you didn't find anything to rob! ?
They are in red( broken) they need the oil from Malvinas
Uk is in RED they are broke! this is the reason they need the Un creciente déficit fiscal pone en duda la economía británica
10:27|Crecería hasta el 12,8% del PBI. El nivel es incluso superior al rojo de Grecia, el país europeo con el peor desempeño. El dato, junto con la deuda pública, puede complicar al gobierno laborista, que en mayo enfrentará elecciones nacionales.
he's incredibly witty for his age! he talked about the fact that he felt he had a duty to stand by his opinion rather than his affiliation to thatcher!
I am surprised at that because he comes across as a dull, plodding, lawyer type, but maybe that is his public face... behind closed doors me maybe quite different... a free-marketeer on economics, a liberal on social issues, and heathite on Europe.. that is Howe's political make up.
If you know, did anything (say, Black Wednesday) ever give Howe the impression that perhaps he'd been wrong and Thatcher right about the ERM all along?
After Keith Joseph, Geoffrey Howe is really the true architect of Thatcherism, and most of Mrs Thatcher's best triumphs. Nigel Lawson deserves some of the credit too.
Thatcer treated them both extremely shabbily, and got her just desserts in the end. After all, when you marginalise your own allies and run your government in a much more xenophobic and autocratic manner, you will eventually fail.
@globaltraveller yes, but would they hve pulled it off.. its one thing to have ideas, but something totally different to lead, she was a pit bull and made all the men around her look like boys... long live Thatcher
I think they would have. These people were the true driving force of Thatcherism. Not her. They designed much of what you and I think as especially Thatcherite - Howe especially. You read any content from the time and you will see it was Mrs Thatcher who needed the persuading. Whether it be the abolition of exchange controls or the deep spending cuts of the 1981 budget. They were in favour - she hesitated first.
Margaret Thatcher failed because she was too in awe of herself.
@globaltraveller im not saying you wrong, but would they hve won 3 terms like she did, alot of the suits look grey and dull, but she was different, if you look at another u tube clip after she sank the Belgrano, she didnt even flinch, she just said they were a danger to our boys and we sunk her (not direct quote). Or this Ladys not for Turning, she was a Spartan and what leader isnt carefull anyways. The Russians gave her the nick name the Iron Lady, she gets my respect
@corruptionIsEvil Yes, that's what we want from our leaders isn't it? Someone who kills people without a thought, doesn't listen to the advice of other, more intelligent people, and never changes their mind, even when it's obvious to everyone else that they're totally wrong!
@TheSunzuki1 is that all you think adopting the Euro as a currrency is - paper in your pocket. Thank god if they ever had the decency to put it to a vote a MAJORITY will see it much more serious than paper in your pocket!!
He resigned b/c Thatcher would veto any proposal for eliminating the pound sterling. What currency does England still use? HMMMM what an idiot he was.
I think we'll end up joining eventually, what does it matter to your life if the pieces of paper in your pocket have Pounds Sterling or Euro written on them?
Well considering they have $ on them, I would say nothing at all. That wasn't my point anyway. The point was the guy resigned 20 years ago over something that still hasn't taken place.
It wont go away though, the BRIC countries will make a huge difference to the global economy, the relevance of the pound and the City of London as a major financial centre.
Not really, she treated him like dirt. And the issue was Europe more widely, not just the single currency. Given that by this stage the woman was totally unhinged, he did us all a favour. Poll tax anyone?
hindsight is a wonderful thing. Thatcher rejecting the Exchange Rate Mechanism was ridiculously Euroskeptic and her cutting down of the Delors proposals in her Bruges speech was rejecting any move towards a common market and limiting the UK's role
If anyone deserved to be ousted out of their position it's Mr Brown, She got this country back on it's economic feet. I remember being a little boy in the 1970's petrified in the knowledge that lights were destined to go out again and me and my brother were had to sit in the cold and darkness !! Yeah thanks for that Labour !!
Your message sounds like you are a typical white Englishman. Your rascist views on the Welsh is laughable. As for your rant about shutting down the pits, well I would have loved to have seen you down the pit beside me because with a post like you have written, I would have taken great delight and knocking fuck out of you without any problem.
being welsh does not make you a different racial class to an english man considering we both come from the u.k and are white and primarily speak the same language.... or was welsh your first language!
She was completely mad from the word go! Her skill was in conning everybody to believe that she wasn't! That should have sounded the alarm bells!! She took the free school milk from our own children! My God!!
When will people realise that Margaret Thatcher signed AWAY more sovereignty than any other Prime Minister before or since. She signed the Single European Act in 1986 empowering the Commission and EU Parliament to have the powers and influence it has today.
She surrendered more "British" (if there is such a thing) sovereingty by that act than even Ted Heath did in 1973 when he took the UK into the EU in the first place!
"Sir" Geoffrey Howe - the defination of a limp dick. I'm not suprised Maggie was described by Ronald Reagan as the best man in England when you've got w*nkers like this to compare her to.
He was a Bilderberger (along with others) who helped get rid of Maggie to further their ambitions for a one world fascist government, via a fedelal Europe.
That woman destroyed industry, destroyed communities, created the greedy fat city bustards, and very much of the problems of today. The Tory Party should have had the guts and got rid of that woman in 1981 when much of the Country was rioting because of her
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i stil believe in europe ,i still believe in the united states of europe, i still believe that one day people will finally understand the beutiful meaning of this huge political project
Geoffrey Howe cowardly stabbed Margaret Thatcher in the back, whom I believe was one of the best PM's this country has ever had. It was the Judas-like actions of Hesseltine that ruined this Tory government, something that is still a detriment to us today.
Geoffrey Howe stabbed Margaret Thatcher in the back? Do you know your history? Margaret Thatcher undermined him, demoted him, despite being faithful since she became Tory leader, She became a megalomaniac and practicularly a dictator. The Hessletine comment is also vague, The Tory party as a whole imploded with internal conflicts and Thatcher was in office probably about three years too long. Although what I will say is that at least the Tory was a capable party in 1990, unlike now.
I'm amazed anyone was still awake at the end of it. They were laughing and gasping at nothing. You couldn't have written a duller speech. Glad she's no longer PM - I'd forgotten how creepy the Tories were back then. They're not as bad these days!
I must protest. If you look where you were in 1990 as opposed to today, you were much better off then. Surely, there were no cameras on every doorstepm your every move governmed by Brussels, the government choosing willy nilly to tell parents what to teach their children. In America, 50 Million Zombies elected Barack "Lenin" Obama, and I doubt that I will recognize my own country by 2012. Thatcher, like Reagan, and like Ron Paul is, is a beacon of freedom.
The very institution of democratic thought is capatalism, and its free unregulated implimentatiion thereof. The market will gaurd itself against fraudulance without the interference of government, which makes everything worse. Like government, a child is better taught from its own shortcomings, and not subjugated by a rescuer. How many pounds has the English government squandered, and how much of your life is cheapened by unelected EU Beauracrats sucking you like vampiric rats? Think of that!
I would suggest rail deregulation would be better. The franchised operators need kicking into shape and challenging but trying to compete with them is virtually impossible due to red tape and suchlike. There is some competition on the railways and this is working extremely well but it must go further.
does nobody think that the most startling thing here is that thatchers so called "nightmare image" appears to be the reality of Europe today, an unelected executive, that frankly ignores the people, (lisbon treaty to name one example). the eu is not a democratic institution, we the people have little to no say in the laws it creates, thatchers fears were reasoned and just, and people like Sir Geoffrey Howe had so little foresight and should regret such statements today
gregorioallegri how about the first ever satellite,are you really that ignorant to believe that if people are Communists,that automatically prevents them from inventing things?just google what the Soviets and Chinese have invented.
It's odd that she is being criticized a fair amount in this thread... considering her predictions of what an integration in to Europe would do to this country have already realized themselves.
I also find it amusing someone has commented on her being "totally out of touch with people in the real world"...I am sure that if one were to ask the majority of the British public their opinion of EU policies and a single monetary policy their statements would concur with that of Margaret Thatcher's.
I've come to the conclusion that that is how the BBC talk about everything: 'the roof is falling in, you're all going to choke', etc. I enjoy Ch 4 news at 7pm, as it seems less self-regarding, and more international and outward-looking. Some people think the BBC has a liberal-bias, but I just think they like to go on a bit, and talk as though the public are supposed to drive over there and clear up the mess with a fork. 'Stick to period dramas, love', that's I tell's 'em!
instead we got major,and this is a reply to thedraven saying we will remember major and maggie as two of the best,like fck we will,all ill remember bout major is that he banged edwina currie ha ha skanky cunt
People can slag off Maggie & Major but one day we'll remember them as two of the best.
And the British people will wonder why they were stupid enough to ever get rid of them in the first place. Howe was a good chancellor but pushing her out was a bit stupid.
The economic model created by thatcherism (unregulated capitalism) has just collapsed in classic fashion. This, alongside the mass unemployment, social unrest, poll tax and pinochet loving will be maggie's true legacy.
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Poll Tax was actually a wonderful idea. You paid for how much you used.
And Maggie is really only responsible for 1.5 million out of work. You can blame Harold & James for the other half.
One day Thatcherism will be achieved socially and economically.
And let's be fair to Pinochet, as brutal as he was, he did help us against the Argentinians. More than can be said for Europe (who were supplying missiles to them).
Keynes had absolutely nothing to do with it, he proposed something that was essentially the opposite. I think you mean Friedman, who at least wasn't a social conservative, so therefore he ranks higher than Thatcher and Reagan in my estimation
Her unregulated neo-liberalist approach is what got is in the mess we're in now, granted she had to fix the unions, but the poll tax was political suicide, stupidity, if you make a regressive tax your not goig to last long..
She had tea with pinochet after the torture of 30,000 and murder of thousands, yes he supported us because america fucking put him there, whats he going to do, he followed the US line after they toppled allende.
Sadly, the EU has become a monsterous beast akin to the welfare state. It's become so bloated and buearucratic that it potentially presents a danger to us.
There are many across Europe who have their issues with the EU - so much so that, if we are in some agreement, one wonders why the EU won't address this and democratise. I am pro-EU, but as it is a fluid not static thing, I would like to know what its purpose is. I do just question the encroachment into useless areas of life. There was a comment on the Daily Politics once about them getting together to discuss a univerally understood name for yoghurt (no agreement)! That I can do without!
Contrary to the gibberish posted by 'colonelrainsborough' below, it's NOW, under Brown that we have the biggest gap between rich and poor in modern times. Labour inherited a much leaner, fitter economy, but have managed, as they always do, to 'Tax & Spend' until we are stoney-broke again. Brown has been just as catastrophically inept as Dennis Healey. Blair and Brown will only be remebered for presiding over Britains most bloated, inept and corrupt government ever.
Margaret Thatcher was without any doubt Britains finest peacetime Prime Minister, bar non. Was she perfect, of course not, but unlike Bliar and Brown, she was decent and honest. Geoffrey Howe has been proved wrong and is virtually forgotten. We need more like her, rather than the crooks we have been saddled with now.
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It's simple. Any leader has to deal with a wide spectrum of politics and ideologies when dealing on the international stage. Chile proved to be a useful ally at that time. You need to focus more on our own home-grown dictaor, Gordon Brown. If you are at least half awake, you ought to be aware by now that this country is rapidly descending into a Police-State. Pretty soon, we'll just be another satellite state to the Fascist EU Superstate. Get a grip.
No Chile became a model of extreme Capitalism which Thatcher admired,the Chicago boys got their claws into Chile after the CIA backed Pinochet coup,Thatcher is a disgrace for "being in bed" with a dictator who murdered and tortured thousands,by the way,i am in no way shape or form a New Labour supporter.
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What was up with Pinochet? He killed communists. Like Scarface said, ''I kill communists for fun.'' Chile has the strongest economy in South America because of his supply side reforms in the 1980's, and he left power peacefully when asked. You operate under the illusion that the world is divided between good and evil. If we took that attitude, Hitler would have won world war 2 because we wouldn't have done a deal with Stalin to defeat the Nazi war machine.
The disparity between the rich and poor under Pinochets gov was on a par only with America's,and as for killing Communists,he killed freedom of speech and killed democracy,overthrowing {with the greedy USA's help}a democratically elected leader and then set up torture camps,oh yes he was truly a wonderful man.
Bit of a contradiction there. Pinchet killed Communists. Oh good! Killed a lot of other people too. 'We' did a deal with Stalin against Hitler. Stalin was a Communist. Hitler killed Communists. Hitler did a deal with Stalin first and then ratted on it. It's more a case that Stalin did a desperate deal with us to save his neck.
Just a little minute though. Galtieri invaded the Falklands. Argentina and Chile hate each other. What might Chile have done during the Falklands War?
So you're saying meeting with Gorbachev was also indefensible then, even if it helped improve relations between both 'sides', because Gorbachev was leader of a regime that had murdered tens of millions of innocents?
Perhaps Chamberlain should have completely ignored Hitler, too. And Churchill should have stayed well clear of Stalin.
No, but his predecessors did (by regime I meant the whole Soviet Union regime from 1917 onwards, apologies if I made myself unclear). I am just saying that visiting and making agreements with dubious political leaders doesn't mean that they agree with each other. Just because she met Gorbachev it doesn't mean she was a communist, which is true for Churchill and Stalin. And Chamberlain was not a fascist because he met Hitler.
Stalin was a sociopath,a lunatic who murdered millions,but that is a drop in the ocean compared to how many people killed and still being killed through Capitalism.
I can't see any capitalist regimes murdering tens of millions of their own people. And don't give me 'the people are dying from capitalism' bullshit, it has enriched the lives of many and relieved large areas of the world from peasantry and famine (although I admit there are plenty of areas of the world where these issues are still prominent) and given us things today we take for granted. Name one priceless invention created by a communist regime.
My economic views are social-democratic, so I am no fan of Thatcherism, but the "deaths from capitalism" argument is rubbish. Imperialism led to a lot of deaths (probably far fewer than Marxism), but European imperialism pre-dates capitalism, and has little to do with it. Indeed, the Soviet Union was a major colonial power, and China retains much of its colonial empire. Far from causing imperialism, free market capitalism put pressure on empires, by promoting outside trade relationships.
I think, in the end, there is a need for renewal - whether that is a different party or leader. The US are probably right in introducing the Constitutional ammendment limiting office to 2-terms. Replacement is the tricky one! I think the Tories have admitted that treatment of the miners is problematic, and that the fact that the miners embodied the traditional conservative values of self-sufficiency and family loyalty is something of a stain on the Conservatives.
The problem wasn't the miners, it was the looney-tunes like Scargil who misled them. In the end, the government were elected to run the country, NOT the NUM. It was chaos versus order. There could only be one outcome.
Which just proves your ability for intellectual or intelligent thinking, or the lack of it. No useful criticism of her policies, no observations of what could have been done differently or better, just 'I hope she dies soon'. A typical anti-Thatcherite.
It is odd how Thatcher and Blair won three (record-breaking) elections in a row and were both sacked by their own parties. Neither of them was ever defeated by the British electorate.
Brown will be defeated without ever having won an election. Not that I say that with any joy. Cameron's not up to much.
Thatcher's economic polices were a resounding failure. Monetarism was abandoned once unemployment hit a record of 3.3 million. Supply-side/trickle-down led to the biggest gap between rich and poor since the Victorians and by 1993 Britain's GDP per capita was still only bigger than that of Italy and Ireland and 1/2 that of Germany. Lawson's tax cuts of 1989 led to soaring inflation, crudely hammered back using a doubling of interest rates to 15% that put 1000's of people into negative equity.
The gap between rich and poor is basically meaningless until we consider the wealth of each. If the poor are richer than before and the rich are also richer than before both are still benefiting. However, if the poor are poorer and the rich are also poorer yet the gap remains the same, then both have suffered. Still, if it's the model you rely on...
This proves very succulently that even Geoffrey Howe soon realised Thatcher was the Anti-Christ! The rest of the party also soon realised her true colours & what she was really all about! Extremism!
I was 14 in 1990 and so, having just watched the BBC's 'Thatcher' dramatisation I'm doing a it of research. I wonder to what extent they were correct in their assertion that she bullied the cabinet into submission.
I look forward to strong leadership from Great Britain. Tony Blair, a Labour PM, stood as a strong leader. Brown has proved to be a remarkably boring and ineffective PM. I do not expect Barack Obama's socialist policies to benefit to the UK. After all, Obama gave Brown a collection of DVDs (that can't be played in the UK) in exchange for a thoughtful gift, which was a pen holder carved out of a ship that fought slavery. Expect a President who has severed the "special relationship"
Tony Balir was never a strong leader, just a spineless appeaser who changed his opinions to fit his audience and did not instigate a single valuable policy.
I disagree. Even in the midst of great unpopularity with the war in Iraq, Blair stood by his conviction that the war was the right thing and despite the fact that no substantial amounts of WMDs were found, he said, which I strongly agree, that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein
So you've found the one issue on which he was not spineless, but only because by that time he could not have pulled out of the war because we could not afford to displeasure the Americans, nor would it do the people of Iraq much good.
A complete contrast to Mrs. Thatcher, who would removed because of her refusal to stand down on her convictions, to which she was firmly welded throughout her premiership.
I agree that Thatcher was removed because she stood by her principles and was unyielding. She was right to resist the "U-turn" tendency at the time. Blair is no Thatcher. She was perhaps the best thing to happen to the UK, the US (particularly the special relationship), and the world in modern times. I disagreed with Blair's domestic policy but I'm American and that's a British interest. I believe his Iraq policy was genuine and not an effort to simply please the Americans.
Perhaps the one thing I truly liked about Blair was the fact that his actions reflected an appreciation he had for the American-British Special Relationship. Now that relationship is played down and it seems that our American President regards Britain as no better or worse than any other country. I consider the United Kingdom a vital pillar of freedom. The US and UK has worked together to defend freedom. Blair understood that and that's why I respect him. Of Course, Thatcher is no comparison
yeah, Obama is not a socialist just like 400 dollars sent to 95% of Americans is a "tax cut." Of course if he was honest and ran as a "socialist" he would lose. He just disguised himself as bipartisan when he's anything but. Look up "socialism" and compare that to what Obama wants to do. You'd be surprised at the similarities. Concern for the least advantage should not come at the expense of big government, which is what Obama wants. Expanding government IS Socialism!
How any American can feel anything but complete joy and relief that Obama is in power is beyond me. You should count your lucky stars that he's saving you from the disaster which your idolised neo-conservatives have put you in, and likely would have left you in, with no assisstance given to you or your fellow countrymen. Pray that he incorporates "Socialism" into his policy making so that your country does not collapse on the back of a failed principle, and take the rest of the world with it.
And how any person could believe Socialism is the answer after it has been repeatedly proven as a failure is beyond me. Your ignorance leaves you unaware of the true cause of the financial problem, which was fraudulent lending practices and the Democrats' success in blocking oversite over Gov. Sponsored Fin. Institutions. Not Capitalism. The Free Market has only fixed the mess Socialism has got us into time and time again.
I despise Thatcher and long for the big day. Serious warning it had not be a State Funeral because there will be uproar - people will boo or cheer - she is responsible for the current crisis - she made many people a bunch of uncaring, selfish, greedy bastards - she destroyed workers rights - she destroyed manufacturing and industry - I hope she rots in hell
She is not responsible for the current crisis. During her reign, the Bank of England was charged with keeping a close eye on the capital adequacy and liquidity of banks, and banks were required to have a large capital base that was larger than their lending base. In 1997, the amount banks were lending was matched by their deposit. The deposit to lending ratio was in equilibrium, and some even in surplus. In 2007, there was a £700 billion deficit.
That was because Brown stripped the Bank of England of its regulatory powers to keep debt levels in the economy low.
And your point on greed is ridiculous. Her whole ideology was to let people live their lives how they want, as long as it was within the confines of the law. If people choose to be greedy, it is their choice. That greed has produced the most innovate products ever known. The profit motive has given us the Ipod, DVD, internet etc.
And America, which used to be the bastion of free market capitalism, has the largest level of charitable giving in the world. She didn't destroy manufacturing. She moderisned it, and freed it from the grip of unions. In 1997, Britain was the sixth largest manufacturing nation in the world, because of her reforms.
She ended the closed shop and banned flying pickets. This was necessary. Workers have the right to strike outside of their OWN workplace, but they have no right to block other people's working rights. And the closed shop is very undemocratic. One shouldn't be obliged to join a Trade Union. It is akin to being forced to join a religion, which is something an Atheist wouldn't do. She didn't abolish the right to strike. She just curbed heavy handed union powers.
Remember, Union leaders are elected by their members. The government is elected by the whole country. The roots of the miners strike can be traced back to Clement Attlee's decision to nationalise the mines, which were perfectly profitable and efficient. The state does not know how to run a proper business, and the mines sank into loss making. Socialism destroyed the mining industry, not Mrs Thatcher.
She sat through out of respect for a colleague of the conservative party. To read anything else into it, is to jump a completely unfounded and quite ignorant conclusion, that is driven more by negative emotion than by intellect.
Really, what if he won the leadership contest in 1975 instead of Thatcher? He would probably of lost the election in 1979 if not certainly in 1983. This country would of been very much worse off now. This was savage and disloyal but it was Thatcher's doing just as much as it was his sadly.
thatcher did one good thing give working class right to buy council homes.everything else she did destroyed society - putting pescription charges up..
son the arms deals enough said...not fan of gordon brown making country bankrupt..
Thatcher removed borrowing regulations and deregulated mortgages creating a nation of borrowers dependent upon house prices, destroyed the manufacturing industry and sowed the seeds for the current economic crisis and the lack of stability therein. Not a fan of GB but to blame him for the current crisis is specious.
howe and others were stupid selfish and they made a big mistake getting rid of thatcher..... she was a true great brought down by people who were much smaller than her
i doubt that very much..... if major could win.... thatcher would have done better..... i guess we will never know but the facts are that the torys did well under thatcher and not so well after she left.... that is a fact
I'm afraid I totally disagree. You are underestimating Thatcher's unpopularity by this point, and the bounce Major gave the Conservatives by being more moderate and less strident. More substantively, Major was able to get rid of the poll tax, a major cause of Thatcher's unpopularity, and, temporarily at least, to stop European splits before Maastricht. Your "fact" misses the point here - by 1990, Thatcher was deeply unpopular, and there is every chance she would have lost in 1991 or 1992.
yes that is true but she was more popular than major..... there was no major bounce..... the election he won was with less seats than thatcher and the next election after that they were almost wiped out..... thatcher may have been more unpopular with some.... but she had a lot of support too.... support which left the tory party after her fall
The fact that Major won with fewer seats than Thatcher is irrelevant: he did give the Tory Party a bounce compared with where they were in 1990 - precisely because he addressed the two issues (namely the poll tax and European splits) that were making Thatcher so unpopular. Look at the Mid-Staffs bye-election - and indeed other polling evidence. By this stage she had clearly become an electoral liability - still popular with the Tory Right, but unpopular with the electorate at large.
there is no evidence that major had any bounce other than a few polls..... when it came to election time it fell away...... now it was not majors supporters that were leaving the tory party...... look i guess we are arguing about something that can never b proven...... i will admit that it could b exactly what u say..... somehow i think thatcher would have won with more seats...... she proved it in every other election when she was just as unpopular in polls
On the contrary, Thatcher had supporters from all over the political ideology spectrum. It is my belief she would of won the 91 election with very little changes of seats. Keep in mind the Labour party was shooting itself in the foot constantly up until Blair took the reins and steered them to some form of stability.
What a shame Howe didn't use his considerable intelligence to thwart Thatcher's dire anti northern blitzkrieg. She made life intolerable for my community. This came years too late. Howe got all worked up about foreign policy but showed little passion for his own countrymen. Hypocrite.
spiderofgod 1 year ago
God bless Margaret Thatcher.
AcePilot2009 1 year ago
When Thatcher and Regan got together it was not to meeting of the minds like the Conservatives in the UK and the Republicans in the US thought it was like an ape and feces in the a room of fans you knew that it was going to hit the fan
KingDT2007 1 year ago
Poor Heseltine, imagine the amount he could've made had he kept that Cabinet Minister's salary for four more years instead of resigning mainly in preparation for a fruitless leadership challenge
vulnerabledonkey 1 year ago
@vulnerabledonkey
Spoken like a true Thatcherite, it's all about money and nothing else!
mainsqueeze1977 1 year ago
And 20-years later, Maggie has been proved right.
ERM was a fuckup.
EU is a fuckup.
BigDuke6ixx 1 year ago 4
what did for her was the poll tax. not europe
xandy1959 1 year ago
I believe that this was a coup d,etat. she was booted out simply cuz she was against europe!
vaj99 1 year ago
@vaj99
Coup d'etat? Last time I checked, the Queen of England was called Elizabeth, not Margaret. One offiicial being replaced by another seems nothing spectecular, no matter how big-headed the one being replaced had become!
mainsqueeze1977 1 year ago
Neither Howe nor Heseltine were ever taken seriously on a worldwide level, simply because they were always Maggie's little minions. John Major was as well but he didn't have time enough to become an enemy.
road2ruins 1 year ago
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This new is in the newspaper!Así, el endeudamiento del sector público en 2008 fue de 99,2% del PIB en Grecia, 52% en Gran Bretaña y 39.7% en España.
YOU REALLY NEED THE OIL!We will see what happend if you can not find oil? OR maybe you could piratear another country to steal their resources.What happen in Irak and Afganistand you didn't find anything to rob! ?
romeas100 1 year ago
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They are in red( broken) they need the oil from Malvinas
Uk is in RED they are broke! this is the reason they need the Un creciente déficit fiscal pone en duda la economía británica
10:27|Crecería hasta el 12,8% del PBI. El nivel es incluso superior al rojo de Grecia, el país europeo con el peor desempeño. El dato, junto con la deuda pública, puede complicar al gobierno laborista, que en mayo enfrentará elecciones nacionales.
romeas100 1 year ago
i had the pleasure of meeting Lord Howe this week. what an incredible man.
georgegabriel9 1 year ago 4
What was he like to speak to? I think he was paying Thatcher back for her maltreatment of him in Cabinet...
Kevinasp 1 year ago
he's incredibly witty for his age! he talked about the fact that he felt he had a duty to stand by his opinion rather than his affiliation to thatcher!
georgegabriel9 1 year ago
I would have imagined that Howe was a fair and reasonable guy, and Thatcher was a bully. This is what happened I would believe.
Kevinasp 1 year ago
I am surprised at that because he comes across as a dull, plodding, lawyer type, but maybe that is his public face... behind closed doors me maybe quite different... a free-marketeer on economics, a liberal on social issues, and heathite on Europe.. that is Howe's political make up.
Kevinasp 1 year ago
If you know, did anything (say, Black Wednesday) ever give Howe the impression that perhaps he'd been wrong and Thatcher right about the ERM all along?
wilverbal 1 year ago
check out ( john mccullagh "ill dance on your grave mrs thatcher".....on youtube or myspace,well worth a listen
LARRSON77 2 years ago
After Keith Joseph, Geoffrey Howe is really the true architect of Thatcherism, and most of Mrs Thatcher's best triumphs. Nigel Lawson deserves some of the credit too.
Thatcer treated them both extremely shabbily, and got her just desserts in the end. After all, when you marginalise your own allies and run your government in a much more xenophobic and autocratic manner, you will eventually fail.
She did.
globaltraveller 2 years ago 11
@globaltraveller yes, but would they hve pulled it off.. its one thing to have ideas, but something totally different to lead, she was a pit bull and made all the men around her look like boys... long live Thatcher
corruptionIsEvil 1 year ago
@corruptionIsEvil
I think they would have. These people were the true driving force of Thatcherism. Not her. They designed much of what you and I think as especially Thatcherite - Howe especially. You read any content from the time and you will see it was Mrs Thatcher who needed the persuading. Whether it be the abolition of exchange controls or the deep spending cuts of the 1981 budget. They were in favour - she hesitated first.
Margaret Thatcher failed because she was too in awe of herself.
globaltraveller 1 year ago
@globaltraveller im not saying you wrong, but would they hve won 3 terms like she did, alot of the suits look grey and dull, but she was different, if you look at another u tube clip after she sank the Belgrano, she didnt even flinch, she just said they were a danger to our boys and we sunk her (not direct quote). Or this Ladys not for Turning, she was a Spartan and what leader isnt carefull anyways. The Russians gave her the nick name the Iron Lady, she gets my respect
corruptionIsEvil 1 year ago 2
@corruptionIsEvil Yes, that's what we want from our leaders isn't it? Someone who kills people without a thought, doesn't listen to the advice of other, more intelligent people, and never changes their mind, even when it's obvious to everyone else that they're totally wrong!
Very similar to Hitler in fact.
jackHNv 1 year ago
BITCH
chipbutty1970 2 years ago 5
Yes, at that time many thought she was wrong. BUt from today's perspective she was simply prescient. What a wonderful woman!
ziegle9876 2 years ago
@TheSunzuki1 is that all you think adopting the Euro as a currrency is - paper in your pocket. Thank god if they ever had the decency to put it to a vote a MAJORITY will see it much more serious than paper in your pocket!!
TooDarnSoulful 2 years ago
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so sad for thatcher
Galacticmaster 2 years ago
LAD
natwithnat2 2 years ago
He resigned b/c Thatcher would veto any proposal for eliminating the pound sterling. What currency does England still use? HMMMM what an idiot he was.
bphutchins 2 years ago 3
I think we'll end up joining eventually, what does it matter to your life if the pieces of paper in your pocket have Pounds Sterling or Euro written on them?
TheSunzuki1 2 years ago 3
Well considering they have $ on them, I would say nothing at all. That wasn't my point anyway. The point was the guy resigned 20 years ago over something that still hasn't taken place.
bphutchins 2 years ago
It wont go away though, the BRIC countries will make a huge difference to the global economy, the relevance of the pound and the City of London as a major financial centre.
TheSunzuki1 2 years ago
because the pound is worth more
xpo50 2 years ago
Not really, she treated him like dirt. And the issue was Europe more widely, not just the single currency. Given that by this stage the woman was totally unhinged, he did us all a favour. Poll tax anyone?
MjoEm32 2 years ago 8
hindsight is a wonderful thing. Thatcher rejecting the Exchange Rate Mechanism was ridiculously Euroskeptic and her cutting down of the Delors proposals in her Bruges speech was rejecting any move towards a common market and limiting the UK's role
blllllllllleugh 2 years ago
No he resigned because her exclamations were contradicting government policy. That would never have been tolerated in any other cabinet minister.
SERVANTOFSET 2 years ago
Maggie was a great PM, but she treated GH terribly.
DHTCF 2 years ago
If anyone deserved to be ousted out of their position it's Mr Brown, She got this country back on it's economic feet. I remember being a little boy in the 1970's petrified in the knowledge that lights were destined to go out again and me and my brother were had to sit in the cold and darkness !! Yeah thanks for that Labour !!
FlyingFox1971 2 years ago
She was right to oppose Howe. The ERM fallout on Black Wednesday ended up doing more political damage to the Tories than Thatcher ever could have.
pecoriinu 2 years ago
thatcher ruined this country. thanks to her we have: no society, no council houses, no manufacturing industry, no workers rights.
stranglingjohndenver 2 years ago 2
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aeronuk1 2 years ago
The best example of a worm turning ever!
There's nothing more vicious than a Tory party who thing their gravy train is in danger.
Brilliant to see the bitch squirm like that though.
jackHNv 2 years ago 2
FAO GreenCommando1
Your message sounds like you are a typical white Englishman. Your rascist views on the Welsh is laughable. As for your rant about shutting down the pits, well I would have loved to have seen you down the pit beside me because with a post like you have written, I would have taken great delight and knocking fuck out of you without any problem.
DundonaldDen 2 years ago
being welsh does not make you a different racial class to an english man considering we both come from the u.k and are white and primarily speak the same language.... or was welsh your first language!
Harrydeth 2 years ago
She was right though. Oct 2nd - Federal Europe here we come.
Fantastor 2 years ago
She was completely mad from the word go! Her skill was in conning everybody to believe that she wasn't! That should have sounded the alarm bells!! She took the free school milk from our own children! My God!!
PHHOFTHEPH 2 years ago
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globaltraveller 2 years ago
You Welsh are fucking cunts- she shut down the mines because you did fuck all in them. Thatcher is the best PM Britain has ever had.
GreenCommando1 2 years ago
And you are a fucking idiot. Howe was central to her government. She was a great PM, but he was a great minister and she treated him very poorly.
DHTCF 2 years ago
ROFL LMAO! Nice one. The Welsh are two-legged pit ponies! Make Anne Robinson Queen of Wales - that'll teach the cunts!
BRUTUALTRUTH 2 years ago
y r u picking on the welsh? - they're British ffs
BarriosGroupie 2 years ago 2
It was a joke dear boy! :D
BRUTUALTRUTH 2 years ago
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Thatcher will always be a cunt. Burn the old bastard.
andrew20781 2 years ago
and so say all of us!!! well said. the day she dies should be a national holiday in wales.
taffpop 2 years ago 2
When will people realise that Margaret Thatcher signed AWAY more sovereignty than any other Prime Minister before or since. She signed the Single European Act in 1986 empowering the Commission and EU Parliament to have the powers and influence it has today.
She surrendered more "British" (if there is such a thing) sovereingty by that act than even Ted Heath did in 1973 when he took the UK into the EU in the first place!
globaltraveller 2 years ago
anyone else think its only a matter of time before this happens to Gordon Brown with someone from his cabinet?
Altho not by harriet harman because she's probably less popular then gb if that's at all possible
gg0u1239 2 years ago 2
"Sir" Geoffrey Howe - the defination of a limp dick. I'm not suprised Maggie was described by Ronald Reagan as the best man in England when you've got w*nkers like this to compare her to.
adamswampy 2 years ago
Well done Sir Geoff - you did UK a massive favour
MrGary66 2 years ago
He was a Bilderberger (along with others) who helped get rid of Maggie to further their ambitions for a one world fascist government, via a fedelal Europe.
Is that what you mean by doing the UK a favour?
antonjon1 2 years ago
That woman destroyed industry, destroyed communities, created the greedy fat city bustards, and very much of the problems of today. The Tory Party should have had the guts and got rid of that woman in 1981 when much of the Country was rioting because of her
MrGary66 2 years ago 3
people who post on this website are all morons incapable of spelling correctly.
p0m9 2 years ago
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i stil believe in europe ,i still believe in the united states of europe, i still believe that one day people will finally understand the beutiful meaning of this huge political project
zoroasthra 2 years ago
And look at how awful the EU is now.....
Circumventing democracy to advance their hegemony.
NinjaScottC 2 years ago 3
Geoffrey Howe cowardly stabbed Margaret Thatcher in the back, whom I believe was one of the best PM's this country has ever had. It was the Judas-like actions of Hesseltine that ruined this Tory government, something that is still a detriment to us today.
nicbuck1 2 years ago 2
Geoffrey Howe stabbed Margaret Thatcher in the back? Do you know your history? Margaret Thatcher undermined him, demoted him, despite being faithful since she became Tory leader, She became a megalomaniac and practicularly a dictator. The Hessletine comment is also vague, The Tory party as a whole imploded with internal conflicts and Thatcher was in office probably about three years too long. Although what I will say is that at least the Tory was a capable party in 1990, unlike now.
stevoverbino 2 years ago 2
I'm amazed anyone was still awake at the end of it. They were laughing and gasping at nothing. You couldn't have written a duller speech. Glad she's no longer PM - I'd forgotten how creepy the Tories were back then. They're not as bad these days!
0FindGlory 2 years ago
I must protest. If you look where you were in 1990 as opposed to today, you were much better off then. Surely, there were no cameras on every doorstepm your every move governmed by Brussels, the government choosing willy nilly to tell parents what to teach their children. In America, 50 Million Zombies elected Barack "Lenin" Obama, and I doubt that I will recognize my own country by 2012. Thatcher, like Reagan, and like Ron Paul is, is a beacon of freedom.
DrCheckmate 2 years ago
The very institution of democratic thought is capatalism, and its free unregulated implimentatiion thereof. The market will gaurd itself against fraudulance without the interference of government, which makes everything worse. Like government, a child is better taught from its own shortcomings, and not subjugated by a rescuer. How many pounds has the English government squandered, and how much of your life is cheapened by unelected EU Beauracrats sucking you like vampiric rats? Think of that!
DrCheckmate 2 years ago
It was a good speech, but Im not surprised you didn't like it... styles change with the times...
ConanHej 2 years ago
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Long Live Thatcherism!
office82 2 years ago
I would suggest rail deregulation would be better. The franchised operators need kicking into shape and challenging but trying to compete with them is virtually impossible due to red tape and suchlike. There is some competition on the railways and this is working extremely well but it must go further.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
does nobody think that the most startling thing here is that thatchers so called "nightmare image" appears to be the reality of Europe today, an unelected executive, that frankly ignores the people, (lisbon treaty to name one example). the eu is not a democratic institution, we the people have little to no say in the laws it creates, thatchers fears were reasoned and just, and people like Sir Geoffrey Howe had so little foresight and should regret such statements today
GoonerCrooner 2 years ago
We should have listened to Thatcher.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
Quite! Look at the bloody mess we are in now. There was a time when our parliment was supreme! Sad time!
office82 2 years ago
rot in hell!!!!
therealTHEREISNOGOD 2 years ago
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what a speech from howe the legend ! hit the nail on the head. bye bye thachter u funking moneterist poll taxing bitch.
TDuffy04 2 years ago
gregorioallegri how about the first ever satellite,are you really that ignorant to believe that if people are Communists,that automatically prevents them from inventing things?just google what the Soviets and Chinese have invented.
krisstruss 2 years ago
It's odd that she is being criticized a fair amount in this thread... considering her predictions of what an integration in to Europe would do to this country have already realized themselves.
I also find it amusing someone has commented on her being "totally out of touch with people in the real world"...I am sure that if one were to ask the majority of the British public their opinion of EU policies and a single monetary policy their statements would concur with that of Margaret Thatcher's.
edcox86 2 years ago
Wow, this really shows how biased BBC journalism is, notcie how loaded the language is. I hate thatcher but still this is so biased against her.
ohnoesmrnose 2 years ago
I've come to the conclusion that that is how the BBC talk about everything: 'the roof is falling in, you're all going to choke', etc. I enjoy Ch 4 news at 7pm, as it seems less self-regarding, and more international and outward-looking. Some people think the BBC has a liberal-bias, but I just think they like to go on a bit, and talk as though the public are supposed to drive over there and clear up the mess with a fork. 'Stick to period dramas, love', that's I tell's 'em!
curlyceltic 2 years ago
shit we nearly got hesaltine lol
instead we got major,and this is a reply to thedraven saying we will remember major and maggie as two of the best,like fck we will,all ill remember bout major is that he banged edwina currie ha ha skanky cunt
cornish83 2 years ago
She was totally out of touch with the real people of the world! A modern day dictator..thank god she was thrown out.
louiswalsh2009 2 years ago 3
People can slag off Maggie & Major but one day we'll remember them as two of the best.
And the British people will wonder why they were stupid enough to ever get rid of them in the first place. Howe was a good chancellor but pushing her out was a bit stupid.
theredraven 2 years ago
The economic model created by thatcherism (unregulated capitalism) has just collapsed in classic fashion. This, alongside the mass unemployment, social unrest, poll tax and pinochet loving will be maggie's true legacy.
drab100 2 years ago
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Poll Tax was actually a wonderful idea. You paid for how much you used.
And Maggie is really only responsible for 1.5 million out of work. You can blame Harold & James for the other half.
One day Thatcherism will be achieved socially and economically.
And let's be fair to Pinochet, as brutal as he was, he did help us against the Argentinians. More than can be said for Europe (who were supplying missiles to them).
theredraven 2 years ago
Reaganomics? Keynes? Maggie didn't cobble it together entirely herself.
curlyceltic 2 years ago
Reagan yes, I'll grant you that.
Keynes had absolutely nothing to do with it, he proposed something that was essentially the opposite. I think you mean Friedman, who at least wasn't a social conservative, so therefore he ranks higher than Thatcher and Reagan in my estimation
drab100 2 years ago
Milton Freidman and the Chicago boys will rot in Hell.
krisstruss 2 years ago
Her unregulated neo-liberalist approach is what got is in the mess we're in now, granted she had to fix the unions, but the poll tax was political suicide, stupidity, if you make a regressive tax your not goig to last long..
She had tea with pinochet after the torture of 30,000 and murder of thousands, yes he supported us because america fucking put him there, whats he going to do, he followed the US line after they toppled allende.
Falklands was a pointless loss of lives anyway.
VicarTowskey 2 years ago 3
Geoffrey Howe did a great service to this country!
drab100 2 years ago
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Yeah, ten years before this when he was chancellor.
theredraven 2 years ago
I'll grant you that he was a good foreign secretary, the sort of honest pro-european we need in the corridors of power.
drab100 2 years ago
If this was the EU we went into then I'd agree.
Sadly, the EU has become a monsterous beast akin to the welfare state. It's become so bloated and buearucratic that it potentially presents a danger to us.
theredraven 2 years ago
There are many across Europe who have their issues with the EU - so much so that, if we are in some agreement, one wonders why the EU won't address this and democratise. I am pro-EU, but as it is a fluid not static thing, I would like to know what its purpose is. I do just question the encroachment into useless areas of life. There was a comment on the Daily Politics once about them getting together to discuss a univerally understood name for yoghurt (no agreement)! That I can do without!
curlyceltic 2 years ago 2
Contrary to the gibberish posted by 'colonelrainsborough' below, it's NOW, under Brown that we have the biggest gap between rich and poor in modern times. Labour inherited a much leaner, fitter economy, but have managed, as they always do, to 'Tax & Spend' until we are stoney-broke again. Brown has been just as catastrophically inept as Dennis Healey. Blair and Brown will only be remebered for presiding over Britains most bloated, inept and corrupt government ever.
HeavensGremlin 2 years ago
Margaret Thatcher was without any doubt Britains finest peacetime Prime Minister, bar non. Was she perfect, of course not, but unlike Bliar and Brown, she was decent and honest. Geoffrey Howe has been proved wrong and is virtually forgotten. We need more like her, rather than the crooks we have been saddled with now.
HeavensGremlin 2 years ago
Decent and honest? sucking up to a murderous dictator in Pinochet? very decent i must say.
krisstruss 2 years ago 6
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It's simple. Any leader has to deal with a wide spectrum of politics and ideologies when dealing on the international stage. Chile proved to be a useful ally at that time. You need to focus more on our own home-grown dictaor, Gordon Brown. If you are at least half awake, you ought to be aware by now that this country is rapidly descending into a Police-State. Pretty soon, we'll just be another satellite state to the Fascist EU Superstate. Get a grip.
HeavensGremlin 2 years ago
No Chile became a model of extreme Capitalism which Thatcher admired,the Chicago boys got their claws into Chile after the CIA backed Pinochet coup,Thatcher is a disgrace for "being in bed" with a dictator who murdered and tortured thousands,by the way,i am in no way shape or form a New Labour supporter.
krisstruss 2 years ago 4
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What was up with Pinochet? He killed communists. Like Scarface said, ''I kill communists for fun.'' Chile has the strongest economy in South America because of his supply side reforms in the 1980's, and he left power peacefully when asked. You operate under the illusion that the world is divided between good and evil. If we took that attitude, Hitler would have won world war 2 because we wouldn't have done a deal with Stalin to defeat the Nazi war machine.
HAIL PINOCHET
Mickmars90 2 years ago
The disparity between the rich and poor under Pinochets gov was on a par only with America's,and as for killing Communists,he killed freedom of speech and killed democracy,overthrowing {with the greedy USA's help}a democratically elected leader and then set up torture camps,oh yes he was truly a wonderful man.
krisstruss 2 years ago 3
Bit of a contradiction there. Pinchet killed Communists. Oh good! Killed a lot of other people too. 'We' did a deal with Stalin against Hitler. Stalin was a Communist. Hitler killed Communists. Hitler did a deal with Stalin first and then ratted on it. It's more a case that Stalin did a desperate deal with us to save his neck.
Just a little minute though. Galtieri invaded the Falklands. Argentina and Chile hate each other. What might Chile have done during the Falklands War?
Saiaton 2 years ago 2
So you're saying meeting with Gorbachev was also indefensible then, even if it helped improve relations between both 'sides', because Gorbachev was leader of a regime that had murdered tens of millions of innocents?
Perhaps Chamberlain should have completely ignored Hitler, too. And Churchill should have stayed well clear of Stalin.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
Gorbachev murdered millions? what fucking planet are you from?
krisstruss 2 years ago
No, but his predecessors did (by regime I meant the whole Soviet Union regime from 1917 onwards, apologies if I made myself unclear). I am just saying that visiting and making agreements with dubious political leaders doesn't mean that they agree with each other. Just because she met Gorbachev it doesn't mean she was a communist, which is true for Churchill and Stalin. And Chamberlain was not a fascist because he met Hitler.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
Stalin was a sociopath,a lunatic who murdered millions,but that is a drop in the ocean compared to how many people killed and still being killed through Capitalism.
krisstruss 2 years ago
I can't see any capitalist regimes murdering tens of millions of their own people. And don't give me 'the people are dying from capitalism' bullshit, it has enriched the lives of many and relieved large areas of the world from peasantry and famine (although I admit there are plenty of areas of the world where these issues are still prominent) and given us things today we take for granted. Name one priceless invention created by a communist regime.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
satellites
somniumisdreaming 2 years ago
My economic views are social-democratic, so I am no fan of Thatcherism, but the "deaths from capitalism" argument is rubbish. Imperialism led to a lot of deaths (probably far fewer than Marxism), but European imperialism pre-dates capitalism, and has little to do with it. Indeed, the Soviet Union was a major colonial power, and China retains much of its colonial empire. Far from causing imperialism, free market capitalism put pressure on empires, by promoting outside trade relationships.
krdwa 2 years ago
u really chat shit.
TDuffy04 2 years ago
You really spell shit.
krisstruss 2 years ago
its called a typo dumbass cos i dont proof read my comments on youtube
TDuffy04 2 years ago
Yeah, decent and honest like her crooked son. By the way, why is there nothing on Youtube about her useless sprog? Mummy's influence?
sail1948 2 years ago 5
I think, in the end, there is a need for renewal - whether that is a different party or leader. The US are probably right in introducing the Constitutional ammendment limiting office to 2-terms. Replacement is the tricky one! I think the Tories have admitted that treatment of the miners is problematic, and that the fact that the miners embodied the traditional conservative values of self-sufficiency and family loyalty is something of a stain on the Conservatives.
curlyceltic 2 years ago
The problem wasn't the miners, it was the looney-tunes like Scargil who misled them. In the end, the government were elected to run the country, NOT the NUM. It was chaos versus order. There could only be one outcome.
HeavensGremlin 2 years ago
I can't wait til she dies either.
agenteighty 2 years ago
Which just proves your ability for intellectual or intelligent thinking, or the lack of it. No useful criticism of her policies, no observations of what could have been done differently or better, just 'I hope she dies soon'. A typical anti-Thatcherite.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
Hope she dies soon,looking forward to a street party,one good thing though,she has,nt got a clue what day it is or who she is,senile old bag.
krisstruss 2 years ago
Even so, sounds like she's more aware than Brown. =)
BlackpeopleLOL 2 years ago
thatcher has been dead for years and uselessly senile for many years more
robset61 2 years ago
See a Doctor, I suspect you have Rabies.
HeavensGremlin 2 years ago
I suspect you have ADHD.
krisstruss 2 years ago
Have respect, I find it hard for you to talk down about her when you, I am sure, will achieve nothing in your life.
aliion 2 years ago
I am a massive admirer of Mags
mermaidman1985 2 years ago
It is odd how Thatcher and Blair won three (record-breaking) elections in a row and were both sacked by their own parties. Neither of them was ever defeated by the British electorate.
Brown will be defeated without ever having won an election. Not that I say that with any joy. Cameron's not up to much.
3ballard 2 years ago 4
Margaret Thatcher was a great one. Now look at Britain, about to go bankrupt.
Now the EU has endangered Europe's future, maybe a more cynical outlook on the continent would have benefited the UK.
chukmaty 2 years ago
Thatcher's economic polices were a resounding failure. Monetarism was abandoned once unemployment hit a record of 3.3 million. Supply-side/trickle-down led to the biggest gap between rich and poor since the Victorians and by 1993 Britain's GDP per capita was still only bigger than that of Italy and Ireland and 1/2 that of Germany. Lawson's tax cuts of 1989 led to soaring inflation, crudely hammered back using a doubling of interest rates to 15% that put 1000's of people into negative equity.
colonelrainsborough 2 years ago
The gap between rich and poor is basically meaningless until we consider the wealth of each. If the poor are richer than before and the rich are also richer than before both are still benefiting. However, if the poor are poorer and the rich are also poorer yet the gap remains the same, then both have suffered. Still, if it's the model you rely on...
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
This proves very succulently that even Geoffrey Howe soon realised Thatcher was the Anti-Christ! The rest of the party also soon realised her true colours & what she was really all about! Extremism!
nico3212 2 years ago
Where were the extremist policies then?
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
I was 14 in 1990 and so, having just watched the BBC's 'Thatcher' dramatisation I'm doing a it of research. I wonder to what extent they were correct in their assertion that she bullied the cabinet into submission.
pudseypumper 2 years ago
I look forward to strong leadership from Great Britain. Tony Blair, a Labour PM, stood as a strong leader. Brown has proved to be a remarkably boring and ineffective PM. I do not expect Barack Obama's socialist policies to benefit to the UK. After all, Obama gave Brown a collection of DVDs (that can't be played in the UK) in exchange for a thoughtful gift, which was a pen holder carved out of a ship that fought slavery. Expect a President who has severed the "special relationship"
eldorama 2 years ago
Tony Balir was never a strong leader, just a spineless appeaser who changed his opinions to fit his audience and did not instigate a single valuable policy.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
I disagree. Even in the midst of great unpopularity with the war in Iraq, Blair stood by his conviction that the war was the right thing and despite the fact that no substantial amounts of WMDs were found, he said, which I strongly agree, that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein
eldorama 2 years ago
So you've found the one issue on which he was not spineless, but only because by that time he could not have pulled out of the war because we could not afford to displeasure the Americans, nor would it do the people of Iraq much good.
A complete contrast to Mrs. Thatcher, who would removed because of her refusal to stand down on her convictions, to which she was firmly welded throughout her premiership.
gregorioallegri 2 years ago
I agree that Thatcher was removed because she stood by her principles and was unyielding. She was right to resist the "U-turn" tendency at the time. Blair is no Thatcher. She was perhaps the best thing to happen to the UK, the US (particularly the special relationship), and the world in modern times. I disagreed with Blair's domestic policy but I'm American and that's a British interest. I believe his Iraq policy was genuine and not an effort to simply please the Americans.
eldorama 2 years ago
Perhaps the one thing I truly liked about Blair was the fact that his actions reflected an appreciation he had for the American-British Special Relationship. Now that relationship is played down and it seems that our American President regards Britain as no better or worse than any other country. I consider the United Kingdom a vital pillar of freedom. The US and UK has worked together to defend freedom. Blair understood that and that's why I respect him. Of Course, Thatcher is no comparison
eldorama 2 years ago
One of the happiest moments of my life was seeing that bitch crying as she left Downing Street.
If there was any justice sh'd be a drroling vegetable lying in her own piss in an old peoples' home.
Margaret - have the decency to die. I'm first in the queue to dance on your grave.
jackHNv 2 years ago
What a sad man you are
eldorama 2 years ago
I'm quite jolly actually!
Obama's a Socialist? If he was he would never have ben nominated.
A concern for the least advantaged in your country doesn't make you a Socialist you moron, it makes you a decent human being.
Something Thatcher and her disciples never did and never will understand.
jackHNv 2 years ago
yeah, Obama is not a socialist just like 400 dollars sent to 95% of Americans is a "tax cut." Of course if he was honest and ran as a "socialist" he would lose. He just disguised himself as bipartisan when he's anything but. Look up "socialism" and compare that to what Obama wants to do. You'd be surprised at the similarities. Concern for the least advantage should not come at the expense of big government, which is what Obama wants. Expanding government IS Socialism!
eldorama 2 years ago
How any American can feel anything but complete joy and relief that Obama is in power is beyond me. You should count your lucky stars that he's saving you from the disaster which your idolised neo-conservatives have put you in, and likely would have left you in, with no assisstance given to you or your fellow countrymen. Pray that he incorporates "Socialism" into his policy making so that your country does not collapse on the back of a failed principle, and take the rest of the world with it.
gloomyoutlook 2 years ago
And how any person could believe Socialism is the answer after it has been repeatedly proven as a failure is beyond me. Your ignorance leaves you unaware of the true cause of the financial problem, which was fraudulent lending practices and the Democrats' success in blocking oversite over Gov. Sponsored Fin. Institutions. Not Capitalism. The Free Market has only fixed the mess Socialism has got us into time and time again.
eldorama 2 years ago
Hear hear. Completely agree.
hugoegbert79 2 years ago
I despise Thatcher and long for the big day. Serious warning it had not be a State Funeral because there will be uproar - people will boo or cheer - she is responsible for the current crisis - she made many people a bunch of uncaring, selfish, greedy bastards - she destroyed workers rights - she destroyed manufacturing and industry - I hope she rots in hell
emmetalk21 2 years ago
She is not responsible for the current crisis. During her reign, the Bank of England was charged with keeping a close eye on the capital adequacy and liquidity of banks, and banks were required to have a large capital base that was larger than their lending base. In 1997, the amount banks were lending was matched by their deposit. The deposit to lending ratio was in equilibrium, and some even in surplus. In 2007, there was a £700 billion deficit.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
That was because Brown stripped the Bank of England of its regulatory powers to keep debt levels in the economy low.
And your point on greed is ridiculous. Her whole ideology was to let people live their lives how they want, as long as it was within the confines of the law. If people choose to be greedy, it is their choice. That greed has produced the most innovate products ever known. The profit motive has given us the Ipod, DVD, internet etc.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
And America, which used to be the bastion of free market capitalism, has the largest level of charitable giving in the world. She didn't destroy manufacturing. She moderisned it, and freed it from the grip of unions. In 1997, Britain was the sixth largest manufacturing nation in the world, because of her reforms.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
She ended the closed shop and banned flying pickets. This was necessary. Workers have the right to strike outside of their OWN workplace, but they have no right to block other people's working rights. And the closed shop is very undemocratic. One shouldn't be obliged to join a Trade Union. It is akin to being forced to join a religion, which is something an Atheist wouldn't do. She didn't abolish the right to strike. She just curbed heavy handed union powers.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
Remember, Union leaders are elected by their members. The government is elected by the whole country. The roots of the miners strike can be traced back to Clement Attlee's decision to nationalise the mines, which were perfectly profitable and efficient. The state does not know how to run a proper business, and the mines sank into loss making. Socialism destroyed the mining industry, not Mrs Thatcher.
Mickmars90 2 years ago
This was the day that it took a welshman to take the bitch out!
wisecrackercymru 2 years ago
Thatcher was a poor leader.
jonpvrmx 2 years ago
pfft...
WiseMonki 2 years ago
weak.
WiseMonki 2 years ago
At least she actually sat through Howes slow knifing of her. Can you imagine Blair (or Brown) sitting through a speech like that?
Gmansroyalguard 2 years ago
She sat through because she was incapable of comprehending that anyone could possibly be criticising her.
jackHNv 2 years ago 6
perfectly put my friend
raychul546 2 years ago 2
She sat through out of respect for a colleague of the conservative party. To read anything else into it, is to jump a completely unfounded and quite ignorant conclusion, that is driven more by negative emotion than by intellect.
TooColdAK 2 years ago
No she was shocked she actually told Kenneth Bake later 'How could he' just after the chamber emptied
Svetlanka83 2 years ago
Geoffrey Howe is the greatest Conservative politician in recent memory.
tcacVII 2 years ago
Really, what if he won the leadership contest in 1975 instead of Thatcher? He would probably of lost the election in 1979 if not certainly in 1983. This country would of been very much worse off now. This was savage and disloyal but it was Thatcher's doing just as much as it was his sadly.
rich1701 2 years ago
'well said. I completely agree. The damage the man did was immense. '
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The damage she did was immense. Howe helped to put an end to that damage by standing up to the monster.
pulrh 2 years ago
thatcher did one good thing give working class right to buy council homes.everything else she did destroyed society - putting pescription charges up..
son the arms deals enough said...not fan of gordon brown making country bankrupt..
0009aw 2 years ago
Thatcher removed borrowing regulations and deregulated mortgages creating a nation of borrowers dependent upon house prices, destroyed the manufacturing industry and sowed the seeds for the current economic crisis and the lack of stability therein. Not a fan of GB but to blame him for the current crisis is specious.
scotsw12 2 years ago
howe and others were stupid selfish and they made a big mistake getting rid of thatcher..... she was a true great brought down by people who were much smaller than her
thatcheritescot 2 years ago
On the contrary, had they kept her, the Tories would have lost in 1992. No question.
MjoEm32 2 years ago
i doubt that very much..... if major could win.... thatcher would have done better..... i guess we will never know but the facts are that the torys did well under thatcher and not so well after she left.... that is a fact
thatcheritescot 2 years ago
I'm afraid I totally disagree. You are underestimating Thatcher's unpopularity by this point, and the bounce Major gave the Conservatives by being more moderate and less strident. More substantively, Major was able to get rid of the poll tax, a major cause of Thatcher's unpopularity, and, temporarily at least, to stop European splits before Maastricht. Your "fact" misses the point here - by 1990, Thatcher was deeply unpopular, and there is every chance she would have lost in 1991 or 1992.
MjoEm32 2 years ago
yes that is true but she was more popular than major..... there was no major bounce..... the election he won was with less seats than thatcher and the next election after that they were almost wiped out..... thatcher may have been more unpopular with some.... but she had a lot of support too.... support which left the tory party after her fall
thatcheritescot 2 years ago
The fact that Major won with fewer seats than Thatcher is irrelevant: he did give the Tory Party a bounce compared with where they were in 1990 - precisely because he addressed the two issues (namely the poll tax and European splits) that were making Thatcher so unpopular. Look at the Mid-Staffs bye-election - and indeed other polling evidence. By this stage she had clearly become an electoral liability - still popular with the Tory Right, but unpopular with the electorate at large.
MjoEm32 2 years ago
there is no evidence that major had any bounce other than a few polls..... when it came to election time it fell away...... now it was not majors supporters that were leaving the tory party...... look i guess we are arguing about something that can never b proven...... i will admit that it could b exactly what u say..... somehow i think thatcher would have won with more seats...... she proved it in every other election when she was just as unpopular in polls
thatcheritescot 2 years ago
On the contrary, Thatcher had supporters from all over the political ideology spectrum. It is my belief she would of won the 91 election with very little changes of seats. Keep in mind the Labour party was shooting itself in the foot constantly up until Blair took the reins and steered them to some form of stability.
Ikazi 2 years ago