Oh dear, you republican christians will misquote anything for a story wont you!? These things are about CHOICES not being enforced on anyone. I personally dont like the idea of assisted suicide but I would not deny others the same rights. Resus is not the best. Only when america has a fair health system will these questions be invalid!
The future under Obamcare! Read about the future now in the UK Daily Mail's article, "The ultimate NHS indignity: Body of hospital patient left to die in corridor is ignored for hours... before staff simply drag him away."
@MrFreeLibertarian No, I was replying matter of factly to your comment about the NHS. Letting the world know you are pro Daily Mail speaks volumes. The NHS may have some problems but we would not be where we are today without it, which looks like we will be once the new overhaul is done. Infected body parts sold for profit is just one terrible symptom of having no NHS.
@wordscontrolminds Where you would be today with a free market system is that you wouldn't have to wait nearly as long to see a doctor. Reducing the absurd wait times (that are unthinkable in the U.S.) at the NHS is a central theme of every election. The system is bloated with a legion of overpaid managers, so much so that there isn't much money to pay for more hospitals and doctors. This is what happens with a government run system.
@wordscontrolminds Also, why would I want to listen to a republican 'pro-life' fanatic? He genuinely believes he is speaking for a whole nation, thats just typical of conservative arrogance and false sense of self-righteousness.Everyone should have the right to decide how they want to be treated by medics at the end of their life, these questions have only arisen because of technology so we need to adapt accordingly.
@wordscontrolminds well said. I could only watch a couple of minutes of this BS. His absurd claim that Congress knows "full-well that Americans deplore abortion and euthanasia" was enough for me to stop wasting my time on anything this pompous liar has to say.
Bottom line, it's childish not to recognize that "end-of-life" issues primarily concern the elderly, and to have no knowledge of what a serious, private family matter it is. His smug dismissal of the ultimate stage of life is inhuman.
See, this is what happens when a dude can't get laid. He spends his pitiful life talking about how Obamacare is somehow going to introduce us to cost-based healthcare, like all insurance companies just aprove everything every patient wants or needs. This asshole has got to be a huge douchebag.
Come on! This is bonkers! The profit-driven US healthcare system means that doctors are more than happy to recommend useless treatment for people on their way out, rather than palliative care. One good thing about the UK's NHS is the fact that its limited resources mean doctors have to think about whether or not treatments are really useful or whether palliative care is better. A profit-driven system means doctors will recommend surgery against the interests of the patient.
@Auggie56 Prolonging someone's life at all costs is often in nobody's interests, least of all the patient's. If an overweight and diabetic 90-year old with a long history of heart problems needs a quadruple bypass, it is very definitely in the patient's best interests to give palliative care to make their last days/weeks/months more comfortable. A quadruple bypass would be extremely traumatic for such a person and it would not prolong their life by many years.
@Auggie56 If you think there is benefit in performing a quadruple bypass on such a person, or it's in their best interests, you are completely bonkers. The beauty of a system with finite resources is that physicians have a vested interest in the treatment being useful. If the system were designed such that the health service would make no profit (and simply waste money) by a patient having useless treatment, physicians would think harder about whether or not to recommend useless treatment.
@Auggie56 Besides, under the British system, the NHS might refuse to perform such an operation on such a person, but the person could always go and get the treatment with the private sector. Similarly, under the US system Barack Obama is introducing, I have difficulty believing that a patient couldn't do the same. If the hospital will won't make any extra money from the treatment, it will stop them recommending the most expensive treatment, rather than the one in the patient's best interests.
"Now look, we haven't even covered 1% of the bill, and you can see how bad it is..."
Come on Mike, that is a loaded statement if I've ever heard one, you're advocating throwing out a whole bill based on 1% and refusing to acknowledge any part of that bill could be beneficial.
You raise interesting points, but I think you're biased in this instance more by your political leanings than by a respect for the dignity of life. In spite of that, I appreciate the work you do in making these videos.
why are republicans assholes? i mean why are they anti good everything four people? and who the fuck gives abortion if the mother got pregnant it is her choice weather to keep it or not the goverment does not have control over that and if they did this country would suck :(
If any republican can find the money they spent on the iraq war ill vote to repeal healthcare. You know, the war to find WMD's, 4 billion a month. Go ahead, start looking.
And people abhor abortion? Say whaaaaa? No YOU abhor abortion. There are approx. 115000 abortions A DAY. 42mil a year. Those are worldwide stats. Sir your beliefs are great and all but facts are called facts for a reason. Try using them next time.
Besides that, whatever you may think of Obama, his momma aint raise no fool. He is smart enough to know how NOT to commit political suicide. End of life, you know when people are about to die, people need care. My grandfather could not even walk before he died so he needed EOL care. This is some serious liberties. EOL care lets you choose how you go out. So i hear people saying "OH NOES OBAMA IS TAKEN MY FREEDOMS" except he wants to make sure we have the ULTIMATE freedom: choosing your death.
ARE PEOPLE SLOW OR JUST LYING? Do people have any clue how fast Obama would be impeached if he proposed euthenasia? No no no I dont think people understand. If he was honestly proposing euthenasia and congress didnt IMMEDIATELY bring up impeachment paperwork, and Im not talking about "Maybe we should kick him out" im talking about straight termination of presidency, then they deserved to be kicked out too.
Stupid shitface: End of life care is not an execution you stupid dum ass, its a volontary act, IF the thing once gets voted, IF it ever gets through any congress, and IF even liberals and pro abortionist would also question, for the thing can exist, and does exist in european countries, but has to be well implemented. WE ARE FAR FROM EUTHANASIA. End of life care is a specialized program more oriented towards finding the proper treatment against pains (morph), to allow the elderly to suffer less
Private sector propaganda videos like this are designed to thwart the governments attempt to take away their business. If you can't afford insurance now, you die no matter what age you are...watch John Q.
Is this a parody? Is this guy seriously claiming that getting people to plan ahead for their future is the same as euthenasia? If it's not, it's the most dispicable attempt to scare seniors into voting for a specific party that I've ever, and I mean ever, seen.
End of life care means that if you have cancer and are in great pain and WILL die in a month and just suffer for another month you have the right to be killed painlessly. Umm that sounds pretty humane and good to me.
Obamacare was signed on March 2010 with 59% of the people disapproving according to a CNN poll. The CBO scored Obamacare on six years of coverage for 10 years of taxes, which is how the CBO showed the bill to be deficit neutral . It’s unconstitutional mandating all citizens to purchase health care. Even Pelosi said, “We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it.” watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To It’s also meant to take over industry watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
I'm not an American. British, live and work here. Love my American colleagues, but totally baffled by the vilification of a president trying to introduce some equity into the health system. Citizens of all the developed countries I know off - except America - regard universal health care, education, law and order, as their birthright. God help anyone in America who falls sick or has an accident without health insurance - or just been let go? tough.
Notice that these fuckers are silent when it comes to the Republicans and Arizona refusing to fund transplant patients. Well what do you know, a Republican Death Panel. And what about this: Blue Shield of California seeks rate hikes of as much as 59% for individuals. The CEO is on 10 million, profits last year of 2.4 billion and a 59% increase in premiums. I really hope that these Tea Party fuckers who don't have any Healthcare one day end up at a hospital and are refused care.
these dumb PIGS always try to stop something, I bet if bush made it it will be perfect! fuck bush and fuck the Republican party" all they do is fuck this great country up, the French call Americans INDIGEOUS PIGS" they say because we let our people die when they're sick and have no **GOLDEN TICKET** Insurance cards.. It's our system thats killing out Americans people, it's all for profit.. I say burn the dirty motherfuckers alive and keep the good ones.
@Tippy2forU;why do you think there was a global meltdown in '08?..thats when we found out it was gonna hit,a mossad turncoat w/the info told madoff and he told his kid who told lehman bro. and goldman sachs,word spread w/the knowledge that shortly money would be worthless...If you have any loved ones hug them every day...
@Tippy2forU;I know I was just being facetious,lol...is'nt it quite the paradox that the U.S. is a consumer driven economy,the govt is saying"spend spend or our economy is gonna go in the dumper"and on the other hand they are telling us to conserve for future generations?the world economy is just one big ponzi scheme anyway,we need an overhaul,but all thats not important now that the asteroid approaches.
it is funny how private trust companies paties people school games something that can change this country for the better.. I guess the worthless healthhcare conpaniew CEOs - do not want anyone getting in between the profit they are making off the poor
are american healthcare is worthless. I am an american and I can't stand our garbage care. I pay for everything out of pocket hiney is so expensive I feel like moving sometimes... edinburgh healthcare forms 5 months in I can not getting any more because I am 5 pounds overweight.. I really hope so bama care really comes through because if it doesn't I am moving.. I have noticed, that this country is based on profit and corruption when comes to healthcare
@ricanlegend203: Obama care won't happen if the Republicans have anything to say about it. They are planning to break it down piece by piece. Why? So they can make more money off the 'little people in unregulated private healthcare. Let's be truthful here. People aren't going to like Obamacare because it came from some 'N' Muslim and they don't want him telling them what to do. If it would have come from Bush, it would have been the best thing since sliced bread.
It's possible to happen I hope it does. Yesterday, I went to the ER and guess what they denied my care cause they said it was not an emergency but if I put 200.00 down that it would be ok and then I could see the doctor. I have no healthcare,I HATE THIS FUCKEN COUNTRIES HEALTHCARE SYSTEM" IT'S A PIECE OF SHIT!!. and if the poor and middle class stick together and vote for the guaranteed healthcare plan Obama is trying to push through we can get it!. Fuck the dirty indigeous PIG REP
"And what do you say to incentivizing doctors to push end of life care, as we have found out this week?" I would say that that is unethical, and illegal. I work in a hospital, and no such thing is happening. I would also say that I think you are listening to nothing but the conservative crackpots, and not looking at the whole picture. The conservatives are masters of spin. They can take something innocent and make it seem sinister. discussing end of life options is NOTHING NEW.
I think maybe in light of what we have found out this week about the death panels being reinstated, it might be time to look at this video again --carefully.
@EmptyToaster That's between a person and God. The ISSUE is that the government will now be telling us when we are no longer worth keeping alive, whether we want to stay alive or not.
@Fleshcucumber1: No it doesn't work. The money isn't in the cure. It's in the disease. If people stay sick, they make money. If They get healthy, they don't make money. Didn't you notice all the nay sayers when the First Lady talked about attacking obesity in kids? Those kids grow up to be fat adults with diabetes,heart disease,hypertension,knee replacements, bypasses, etc. There is money in that. It's all about the money and we are screwed.
There's nothing wrong with abortion or assisted suicide. But you can't say it's "everyone's own choice" when the government is paying for it and choosing it for you.
@Houshalter: They would have to change the amendment that reads abortions are not allowed with government funds. Whatever you do in your state is your business but you can't complete an abortion with goverenment funds. Planned Parenthood is a charity. It doesn't use federal funds. Assisted suicide is against the law in every state but one. Taking out someone's feeding tube so they starve to death is perfectly legal if they are brain dead but you have to get guardian consent. That's wrong.
@Tippy2forU, how is it wrong if they are brain dead? And I don't understand how it's completely unacceptable to give funds to some specific group of mildly controversial industries and organizations, yet people don't even notice when massive amounts of money go to extremely controversial and morally unjustifiable causes. This would be just about anything the state spends lots of money on.
@Houshalter: It is possible for the brain to stop functioning and the heart keeps beating. If the body continues to function but there is no brain activity, you are starving the patient if you don’t give them food.
As far as abortion, I guess you can say Christians don't believe you have a right to take a life. They believe life starts at conception but they participate in immoral money making things. I guess you can say a lot of them are a bunch of hypocrites.
@Tippy2forU, would you support keeping a patient alive if they had no head whatsoever, but you had the technology to do it? Obviously that's ridiculous. So if their brain is essentially damaged beyond repair and nonfuntional, it might as well be the same thing. At the very least I could see justification for something like cryostasis which is probably cheaper and would keep them intact until they have the technology to fix it, which is the reason for keeping them alive in the first place, right?
And another thing, medical science can't solve all of our problems. I work in a hospital, and as much as we'd all like a magic wand we could wave to make pain and suffering disappear, there is no such thing. Too many times I see people who will never get better, tortured needlessly by being kept alive by relatives who clearly don't understand the situation. So before you go off on Obama about wanting to give everyone the facts, think about having no quality of life, and constant pain. Want that?
You retards! Physician assisted suicide isn't mandatory. Everything you mentioned is ALREADY DISCUSSED WITH TERMINALLY ILL PATIENTS - THIS IS NOTHING NEW! CRETINS!!!
Before the bill was passed I read a lot of it but did the medical card get into the final version? The card we will all have to carry. This card can only be read by a machine. If the machine kicks your card out because you have too many health problems then you are sent to a consultant. The consultant doesn't know how to get your smart card back into the machine but she is an expert on end of life care. Please explain the route of the smart insurance or medical cards.
if you wish not to have obamacare do this --- make up your own religion that prohibits going to any doctor or hospital for help - like the christain science people. the goverment cannot force you to go againist your faith - there you go!!
If you don't want the child then let it live, give birth to it, and give it to an orphanage for God's sake! You don't have to kill it and dispose of it like nothing more then a simple nuisance, it has a soul and it has the right to live. Abortion is the cowards way out, unless the mother was raped or the continuation of the babies development threatens her life it should be brought into this world. Abortions are rich bitches ways out of responsibility and accountability, nothing more.
Euthanasia is murder, and Abortion is murder. No matter how you slice it assisting someones death is murder. The elderly deserve to live as long as they please. And girls should not have the Abortions. Some say, they are just embryos, a cluster of cells with no soul. But killing it is the prevention of a live human from developing, growing up, and living life is murder. Every fetus deserves the chance to have live, to have children, to enjoy what this world has to offer. They all deserve life!
Oh goodness. Heaven forbid someone who wants to die might be allowed to do it with dignity, rather than feeling forced to live because the God-botherers tell them it's immoral.
I genuinely don't know what you're complaining about. You're moaning that an elderly person has the choice not to be forced to go on living when they come close to death?
You and your ilk always bang on about liberty, but when someone wants the liberty to die in peace, you come out and condemn it.
Dr. Donald Berwick, the man who will run your health care: "I cannot believe that the individual health care consumer can enforce through choice the proper configurations of a system as massive and complex as health care. That is for leaders to do. ... About 8% of GDP is plenty for 'best known' care. ... A progressive policy regime will control and rationalize financing—control supply."
Can anyone name a govt at any time in history that has the people's best interest at heart? I can't think of any and thus any govt takeover of any aspect of our lives is at best giving up our freedoms. Govt's want to control the world and the people... case closed.
@honxygoeshonk Nobody in this country wanted health care all obama did was keep pushing it till it went through! This puts many private insurance companies out of business, like we really need more of that. All this leads to is more governmental power! That is what is so great about this country freedom!
@honxygoeshonk if you didn't know health care was pushed through so that the government has more governmental power! Im sorry but did you ever see Americans migrating to Canada because of there health care?! no they didn't Canadians were coming to this country for transplants and surgeries because that health care system is so bad! people have to wait hours for care ! im going to laugh if your mom has a life threatening illness and she dies because you have to wait so long to get any care!
This is fucking stupid "we haven't looked at 1% of the bill and you can already see how bad it is" ok, find 99 other things you disagree with dickhead.
Obama, nor any of the bills supporters, deny that abortion would be part of the bill, this isn't so much a political resistance than a religious one. Why is abortion bad? Why is euthanasia bad? Because your god sais so? Then fuck off, separation of church and state is there for a reason.
We should keep the government out of end of life care, but a person has a right to end their own life - you own your life and it is your decision whether or not to end it, not the government's (or the religious totalitarians')
WITHOUT Obamacare, my mom was murdered b/c they pulled the plug on her b/c she signed her "death wish" (medical directive to not get food, water, or ventilator help). l know it is HER WISH, but why is this illegal for some kid to kill himself & they stick him in some hospital for a stupid 3-day observation but it's OK for some old or sick person to starve, suffocate, or die of thirst?!
MURDER IS MURDER & THIS bullshit is going on NOW withOUT Obamacare!!
First off, how is this abomination any different than those legal living wills, medical directives, & other devices lawyers draft & swindle folks (such as my mom) into dying of starvation, thirst, or suffocation /aka/ MURDER!!
Dr. Korvorkian is the SAME as the murder that occurred from doctors, hospitals, & lawyers NOW!! Just ask my momoh, Gladys Spellman Nursing Home ALREADY pulled the plug on her WITH OUT Obamacare!!
i am serious. adults should be able to kill themselves if they want too. it is your body and you have the right to do whatever u want.
this is free world. we can't have the government going around telling people not to masterbate, eat or whatever.
teens are not adult. they are not capable to making decision. there should be an age requirement for suicide. we have age requirement that u can buy alcohols and smokes, getting marry, drive a car, vote, etc.
Then at what age is someone "sane" enough to kill themselves? 20? 30? If it's in their 20 or 30;s humans are STILL VERY IMMATURE! lgnorant people do stupid things all the time to regret it later.
What's not to say some weak person feeling depressed b/c they lost a bunch of $, or got dumped wants to kill them self at 30 BUT if they get therapy & help with their addiction they may feel totally different in 2 or 3 years.
That's why therapists exist to help suicidal folks.
Even if they don't succeed, if they try & kill themself INSTEAD of getting therapy and help, how will that help them. Folks can take drugs also. No one's stopping them but the consequences of homeless addicts loitering train stations puts a great strain on the area.
Freedom to fuck who u wish is TOTALLY different than freedom to kill yourself or someone else. U can't bring someone or yourself back from death regardless of age!
the person must be in the right mind, mature and responsible. we can't allow people on drugs, depress, etc. to go and commit suicide. we should have doctors to check out that person.
we require candidate to be at least 35 years of age and in stable mind to run for president. let's follow that rule.
if u considered all humans to be immature then politicians are immature as well. they should not determine my life. if i am immature but i get to determine own my life.
Well the ONLY time someone who is NOT depressed wishes 2 kill themself is if it's cultural like "hara kare" (or however u pronounce that Japanese act of suicide), Muslem honor killing, etc. Or it's for some religion such as Jim Jones, Muslem seeking 32 virgins, or the Hail Bop Comet religion.
Most "normal" people would consider such acts extreme and insane, even if they are over 40 years old!
Sane people in a FREE society who r in sound mind don't try and kill themself.
"Sane people in a FREE society who r in sound mind don't try and kill themself." wrong. there are sane people who do want to kill themselves for whatever reason.
the Japaneses who cut their own stomach. so what? let them. that is their own choice and life.
Muslim honor killing is not suicide. that is murder. there is a difference between killing yourself and someone killing u.
stupid people followed Jim Jones to their deaths. that was brainwashed and murdered not suicide.
Many Muslim "honor suicides" r done (of couse via pure pressure of the family & society like Japanese hari kari) r done by and at the hands of that person NOT someone else. Just like a suicide bomber, they strap a bomb 2 themselves 2 blow up some area.
As for Jim Jones, Hail Bop comet, etc. they were stupid & brainwashed, but they still willingly drank the poison. The few that were smart hid & escaped.
Like u, l'd care less if someone l don't know & never plan 2 meet chose 2 do such. l guess l have enuf problems in MY life 2 be too concerned with someone else. However there is a very thin line between hara kare & honor killing. If someone ELSE kills u 4 their honor then YES it's murder. lf u do it (willing or not) then it is still suicide. Unfortunately for them there was no escape or other option in their horrific community.
As for some brainwashed moron drinking cool aid, that is NO DIFFERENT than hara kare. One is just in a small religious cult & another is throughout a whole society. Both r suicide.
Suicide is murder whether u care for that person or even care if it even exist, it is STILL murder. That is why it's suffix ends in "CIDE"
U have geno cide, homo cide suici cide, etc. CIDE is a root. & if u feel some 20 year old should seek therapy & help 2 prevent his death then ....
.........then u should ALSO feel some brainwashed idiot & ESPECIALLY someone forced by their society to kill THEMSELVES an offer of escape.
& some religions believe folks who kill themselves will NOT make it to heaven b/c they r murderers. They murdered their own body that God gave them. l believe Catholics & some Christianity beliefs support that. This is such a popular religious belief, appoints point out Samson who killed himself when he pushed the columns down.
l guess we must agree 2 disagree. Altho l have no time to worry or care about some depressed person, brainwashed idiot, or foreigner kills himself, l STILL believe & know it's WRONG - free will and all.
If u as a human being did NOT make & create ur own body (regardless of what religion u follow or if u follow one at all) U must realize that u had absolutely no say or control if u were born, how u were born, or when u were born......
........With that, how can someone (free will & all) have 100% say in when they die?
l understand it's THEIR WILL but THEIR OWN WILL to kill themselves (hara kare, brainwashed follower, depressed person, etc.) it is STILL murder. Murder of their own flesh.
And yes, some depressed or even ill individual deciding to end their life is way different than hara kara & honor suicide. But l personally feel that ALL of them ....
And yes, some depressed or even ill individual deciding to end their life is way different than hara kara & honor suicide. But l personally feel that ALL of them should seek an excape and help. Aministy in another country to excape killing theirself to save the honor of their family. Thearpy for their depression, etc.
Me personally, l find it ALL SHADY & WRONG! But that's me personally.
free will set people free. u sound like u like to live in a country run by a dictator who control every aspect of your live.
if Hilter told u not to kill yourself u have no problem with that. if Hitler told u not to eat nor drink u have no problem with that too.
i certainly don't like to live in a country that controls my personal life. i don't like the government tell me not to eat fatty food, smoke, have sex or kill myself.
Murder is murder whoever tells u to do it! Whether it's Hitler or yourself! Living in a country where someone tells u what to eat, drink, smoke, who 2 like, love, fuck, and hate? That sounds like the AMERICAN MEDIA!! And NOT the JUST the current Amer. media BUT the Amer. media back from the start in the early 20's!
Ever notice the constantly changing trends in beauty standards? Ever notice how it went from shapely women in the 40's to rail thin in the 60's, to everything else?
"free will set people free" as you freely kill yourself...
Ha ha ha!! Funny!
The ONLY time suicide seems Being Set FREE is in extreme cases. Perhaps like how some Africans jumped overboard on the slave ships. Or perhaps how Japanese Samuri's kill themselves when they r caught & about to taken prisoners.
Or perhaps how the Jews killed all their family off & then themselves at Ein Geti but maybe not b/c THEY killed their family. The family did NOT kill themselves off.
i said free will without outside influence. why are u still using example of pressure and other forces to influence people making decision? u commit suicide only when u are not influence by drug or other forces. got that? slaves are forced into the condition that they don't want. so jumping overboard to kill themselves does not consider free will suicide. same goes with the samuri.
u are confused. if Bill Gates kill himself that is consider suicide. he is rich, free and have a family.
& Again, this is good why? At least slaves or the caught samurai has a reason 2 kill himself OUTSIDE of basic depression. If Bill Gates who is free, rich, & with family kills himself that is considered a tragedy. lf a slave or samurai kills themself that is more understandable.
l think YOU don't get that "sane", free, "normal" people who r NOT under pressure do NOT go and kill themself UNLESS they r DEPRESSED, or SUFFERING some other PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION NEEDING THERAPY!
"Normal," SANE, Free, people do NOT commit suicide UNLESS They have a psychological or mental condition! No one says "l'm board, l think l'll shot myself for fun!" A lunatic (who should be locked away from the public b/c he's a potential menace 2 society) would! A depressed person (needing therapy & help) would!
A normal, SANE, human would NOT willingly decide to kill themself!!
Where on earth have u ever heard of someone SANE deciding to kill themself?!
u have not met anyone who is sane, free and willing to commit suicde. let me introduce u to one.
how about me. i'm 74 years old. i have a very good life and i still do. i have lived long enough. i still have a job, just part time. i have 2 children. they are all grown up. they have their own family and life. i had a wife. my wife died 8 years ago. u expect me to remarry and have more kids? come on.
i'm ready to die but i have not kill myself yet. i want to have that option open.
l hear exactly what ur saying, but u r no different than a parent losing her child or how many couples (or twins) suffer loss. A mother never gets over buring her kid & obviously very close spouces never get over their loss. What u, my mom, & many spouces suffer from is grief & loss reguardless of time.
And the answer (or at least a solution to some point of comfort & positive results) is THEARPY!!! Grief counceling, group therpy, talking to a pastor, rabbi, priest, yogi, or some spiritual advisor. Or even speaking with a psychic or medium. Dealing with ur grief & taking action to rid it is the answer - NOT getting help, ignoring it, acting like ur OK is NOT going 2 work & is NOT the answer!
..........And the answer (or at least a solution to some point of comfort & positive results) is THERAPY!!! Grief counseling, group therapy, talking to a pastor, rabbi, priest, yogi, or some spiritual adviser. Or even speaking with a psychic or medium. Dealing with ur grief & taking action to rid it is the answer - NOT getting help, ignoring it, acting like ur OK is NOT going 2 work & is NOT the answer!.....
..................As l said earlier, A normal, SANE, human would NOT willingly decide to kill themself! A depressed person (needing therapy & help) would!
Grandpa died in 1992 & grandma but as upset & single (again) as granny was - considering buying a coffin from Costco to keep for her time, she is STILL here, cooking, cleaning, sewing, gardening, active in church, & ALMOST 90!!
................Mon on the other hand COMPLETELY gave up after daddy died in 2001. Married right from her parents & unlike the typical Amer. stayed married until death did them part. That was the 1st time she was alone & me (still being single b/c l have yet lived in Europe or somewhere) not having any kids 4 her......
...........Like u, she was ready 2 see daddy "Perhaps tonight" as she told her close friend for years. She refused to take her meds, eat healthy, told my friend how she was going 2 have a stroke, & went all out to go out with a bang.
Unfortunately it didn't happen like that. & being she signed that horrific death wish (medical directive) w/OUT ObamaCare, they pulled the plug......
..........Now if ur family aint crap, ur friends, neighbors, aint crap, & no good folks r left in ur neighborhood (& l wouldn't know that - ONLY U would)
(or if ur some lunatic, rapist, or serial killer) then go for it. It's all up 2 u screw everyone else.
However if ur family, friends, neighbors, etc. r not a pile of crap, it is EXTREMELY SELFISH 4 u 2 just kill urself & the hell w/ everyone else.
look, life has its limit. all humans are programed to die. my wife died of natural cause. i learned to accept that and moved on. her death has nothing to do with me wanting to commit suicide. i am still happy. i have a girlfriend. we take care of each other.
u still think i want to kill myself because my wife died. no, no, no, no...
she died 8 years ago.
u want me to get marry and have more kid? get real here. don't be ridiculous.
@KhmerD0g If your wife had wanted to commit suicide, and you understood it was her final decision, would you have given her your blessing? If so, would you have sat down and watched her do it?
yes. and only if she is finished with her responsibility. if we still have kids that are still under 18 and not yet have a proper career than no. she cannot kill herself until she finished her motherly obligation.
government can't tell what individual do with their own body. i don't want the government to tell me i can't kill myself or eat fatty food
you people are idiots. This is no different than the options already giving to dieing people. Stop twisting Obamas words. Dont support the death of unborn children but support the sending our young men and women dieing for oil..... Douchebags
/watch?v=J9N1LWAQAHM&feature=related, all people see this video...an arrested Taliban/Lashker terrorist confessed working for indians and being paid for killing people in Pakistan...
The video seems to make a habit out of stating that Obama "equates" end-of-life care. If the people behind it are nearly as smart as they pretend to be, they realize how grossly they're misrepresenting him on this issue. Euthanasia is an aspect of end-of-life care, which is CLEARLY what Obama meant in the interview. He by no means recognizes it as the ONLY aspect of end-of-life care (no decent human being does). To say he "equates" the two is absurd.
If, say, a State passed legislation that increased the maximum penalty for rapists, and Obama said that he thought the people of that state were doing a service for the country in recognizing that we've got to think about how sexual activity affects our society, would we think he was equating rape with sex? No, we wouldn't, and that would probably be because we agree with that sentiment.
Here's the deal, I 100% agree with your protest against euthanasia. Human life is sacred, and should be protected with everything we have in our power. What is NOT okay is for people such as the American Life League to blatantly misrepresent someone's position on the issue in order to demonize them. They are guilty of the same "linguistic acrobatics" they denounce in the video.
Because we know what they're really saying is "death panel."
@rogertrew typical right-wing tactic. Let's resort to namecalling at anyone who challenges us. Pure ignorance.
"Death panels" are not knew. They are very real right now. I consulted w/ someone when my mom died and when Bush was still president. You people need to educate yourself with our current health care system. Your ignorance makes you putty in the Republican party's hands. They know you are clueless as to the way things are now so they resort to fear tactics.
...I was hoping to visit my relatives in Germany I haven't seen for years but now with 'obamacare' my chances are gone I may not live long enough and the gov't may knock me off.... I am a senior..thanks obama & obamacare!
Perhaps you'd prefer to call this a strawman or a slippery slope argument--pick your logical fallacy.
The fact remains that when you exaggerate in order to make your point, any actual argument--no matter how valid--gets lost amid all the hyperbole. Appealing to emotion (in this case, fear) might garner attention, but in the long run it works against you.
Believe me, if there really WERE the prospect of "death panels" and the like, I'd be alarmed.
Oh yeah! One of them! Someone who has a minimal understanding of rhetorical devices and brandishes terms he heard in speech class. The logical equivalent of the High School Psych student who claims anytime someone doesn't like someone else it is projection. The slippery slope fallacy is only a fallacy if... it is a fallacy. If the slippery slope can be shown to be likely (or inevitable) it is not a fallacy. By the way, pointing out phantom fallacies, kind of a fallacy.
"...trying to get people afraid of a certain side's argument by calling it fear mongering...sounds a lot like fear mongering."
"...pointing out phantom fallacies, kind of a fallacy..."
You come across as a bit of a one-note song. :)
The strawman fallacy clearly applies. The proposal at issue attempts to INCREASE individual autonomy concerning end-of-life issues, not empower the government to make those decisions. And the term "death panel" (like "death tax") is an overt appeal to emotion.
I might rescind my claim about the slippery slope fallacy, provided you can show me real-world examples of how expanding the use end-of-life consultations has led to actual "death panels."
Ahhhh. Perfect. You were not arguing against what I had said, you were arguing against what you wanted me to have said. I am not addressing end-of-life counseling. I am refering to the Comparative Effectiveness Research Commission. This panel makes decisions on whether a treatment is fiscally worth keeping a person alive, and if it is, for how long. If and when it decides a treatment is not worth it, members are denied that treatment.
That is exactly what is being called a death panel. A Commission (generally interchangable with panel) that decides whether or not a treatment staving off death may be applied. The fact that you don't like it being called a Death Panel does not mae it less real. You are first guilty of your own straw-man argument. You are secondly guilty of denying something based on your not liking what it is called. I bet you don't like the phrase death tax. It's still real.
I'm talking about the "death panel" referred to in this video (and by Palin)--sec. 1233 of HR3200. You and I have already discussed the provision in the stimulus package, and I've already explained why it doesn't qualify as a "death panel" either.
I object to all provocative slang terms the sole purpose of which is to obscure and inflame.
I don't like the estate tax, no matter what it's called. But I think the tax fails on its merits; there's no need to rename it to score political points.
Palin was referring to the CERC. Further, it is terrible rhetoric to end a post with a glaring, well-known logical fallacy, the same post you accused someone else of several logical fallacies. Further trying to rile people up with accusations of fear-mongering sounds an awful lot like fear-mongering to me. Further, I apologize about assuming you liked the death tax, it's just most Scialists in this country tend to. However the point still remains that if you do not like what something has(cont.)
been labeled, it doesn't change the reality of that thing. You seem to misunderstand. The point of these labels is the exact opposite of the obscuring and inflaming you see in them. It is to clarify. Using euphemisms to conceal the point of these things that the American public clearly would not support is what muddies the issue. Not calling a proverbial spade a spade in the instance of death panels is tantamount to "the Final Solution." Doesn't sound so bad under that name....
And what on Earth gave you the impression I'm a "Socialist"? Because I took issue with people who use provocative terminology to score political points? (FYI, I don't care for euphemisms either.)
I'm limited-government, pro-Second Amendment, pro-life, anti-affirmative action, and I think we should build a wall on our southern border and make English the official language. Does that sound leftist to you?
Yes a Nazi reference. I fail to see how it's inappropriate when you're talking about Government going wrong and covering it up. That certainly does not sound Leftist, and I hope it's all true. It was more your standing up for Socialized medicine (Socialists tend to stand up for Scoialization of things.) I wasn't trying to engage in a pissing contest. Sorry it came of that way.
And I'm sorry for my petulance. YouTube doesn't always bring out my best side.
I'm not sure why you thought I was defending socialized medicine; I made it clear in our earlier exchange (a few weeks back) that I did NOT support Obamacare.
Anyway, no harm, no foul. I suspect there's an awful lot on which we'd agree about the dangers of expansive government. The tea-party movement notwithstanding, I fear our country is moving in the "nanny state" direction of Western Europe. Unfortunately.
You said you did not support a certain bill. Many Socialists don't as they feel it is too free market (an idea that mae me want to vomit.)
I feel you're right, and it is a shame. However I feel that you have taken a dangerous stance. While it is certainly dangerous to become riled up over every little infraction, it is certainly just as dangerous to sit idly by. You call referencing "death panels" fear mongering, and maybe it is. But to assume that there could never be any such thing (cont)
can be just as dangerous. Similarly, I could practically see you roll your eyes when I made an analogy to the Nazis. Now, both sides of the aisle jump at the chance to call each other Nazi's. And this common usage has certainly desensitized a lot of people to the atrocities that the Nazi's commited. However, your assuming that any Nazi analogy is made by a wingnut can have very scary side effects. When exactly does it become okay to make a Nazi analogy? Because assuming we ever had a (cont)
Yes, desensitization is precisely the danger. When the Nazi label is thrown around indiscriminately, then people don't have a frame of reference when TRUE genocide is taking place (e.g., Rwanda).
It's like when feminists starting labeling as rape ANY sexual episode that a woman comes to regret later on. The effect is to downplay the horror of ACTUAL rape.
And the opposite is true. Not only is wha you've said happened (which is sickening enough,) but now feminists who have been raped and report it appear to be exaggerating. And that is just as terrible.
National Socialist party in this country, we technically could not call them Nazi's, because they were not German. So while there are obviously not any serious Nazi politicians in this country, many politicians agree with a lot of the scariest parts of Nazi ideology (I veiw the totalitarianism as worse then the racism, because racism in itself doesn't harm anyone, as terrible as it is.) However, you seem to think that we can not point out the similarities. I think doing so would prevent trajedy.
You make some good points, and I agree that there are times when the Nazi references might be apt (perhaps, say, when discussing abortion).
However, most of the time the comparison is not fair. The National Socialists were involved in genocide--the systematic extermination of millions of people. I can think of NO analogues in American politics.
The same is true when people attempt to compare our leaders to Hitler. (Sorry, but as bad as Bush and Obama are, they aren't THAT bad!)
Keep in mind, the boy who cried wolf is not the only problem. The man who didn't believe there was a wolf because wolf attacks could never happen in America, or that if there really were wolf attacks, he'd be worried are as bad if not worse. There is also the man who says that it's not really a wolf, it's just a dog. Or it may actually be a dog, but he still may have ripped someone's throat off. You need to be careful of these people as well.
When you refuse to accept any argument that even mentions Nazis (I was merely making an analogy that didn't even call anyone a Nazi or say any of their policies were Nazi-like, I simply showed what euphemisms can do) you make it really, really easy for a real Nazi to walk-in and take over one day. If you immediately dismiss every argument using the word Nazi as illegitimate, what happens when they're right? You will have already tuned them out.
As I said, abortion is about the only issue I can think of that might merit a Nazi comparison, just in terms of the sheer number of lives involved (and even that analogy has problems).
My point is, no Nazi is going to "walk in and take over one day." Change, especially in a democratic nation, is incremental. Americans tend to be a vigilant (read: paranoid) lot; we'd sound the alarm LONG before a holocaust-type event could take place.
Just look at the uproar over nonexistent "death panels"!
And just look at your reaction to the "uproar" over existant death panels!
Where you see vigilance, I see complacency. It should be pretty clear to everyone that Americans prefer the status quo. That being said, change is not always incremental. That is the idea, but plans like that do not always work out. Further, your second sentence proves my point. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge that a Nazi could ever come to power. (cont)
Complacency is a problem, yes, but not when it comes to extremist political groups, which tend to be ignored by the American population.
I'm much more concerned about a GRADUAL move toward "benevolent" statism, in which our individual autonomy and liberties are slowly eroded away as governmental authority increases. (That's pretty much been the trend here in California, with disastrous results.)
However, should our economy actually collapse--well, then, all bets are off.
Well, I think any thinking person would agree that gradual change poses a much more serious threat. But that does not make a radical change towards Statism any less dangerous, simply because it is less likely than a gradual one. You're more likely to die in a car crash than a plane crash, doesn't mean that a plane crash is any less horrific, or less possible. And finally, we call Light Beer, Beer. Why not call Light Nazi's Nazi's?
People need the same healthcare, as the people thay elect ? price rate and rules.....
stringlov 5 days ago
What a bunch of baloney.
formerlymiddleclass 2 weeks ago
I was unsure whether or not I was in favor of euthanasia until I listened to this guy for a couple of minutes and lost the will to live.
1960mayhem 2 weeks ago
see "Obamacare-Little Petey Cronkite and Georgie Will"
haldonrichardson1 4 months ago
Oh dear, you republican christians will misquote anything for a story wont you!? These things are about CHOICES not being enforced on anyone. I personally dont like the idea of assisted suicide but I would not deny others the same rights. Resus is not the best. Only when america has a fair health system will these questions be invalid!
wordscontrolminds 6 months ago
The future under Obamcare! Read about the future now in the UK Daily Mail's article, "The ultimate NHS indignity: Body of hospital patient left to die in corridor is ignored for hours... before staff simply drag him away."
MrFreeLibertarian 7 months ago
@MrFreeLibertarian If it werent for the nhs he would have died at home anyway!
wordscontrolminds 6 months ago
@wordscontrolminds Did you actually read the article? If so, your reading comprehension sucks. Go back and read it again SLOWLY this time.
MrFreeLibertarian 6 months ago
@MrFreeLibertarian No, I was replying matter of factly to your comment about the NHS. Letting the world know you are pro Daily Mail speaks volumes. The NHS may have some problems but we would not be where we are today without it, which looks like we will be once the new overhaul is done. Infected body parts sold for profit is just one terrible symptom of having no NHS.
wordscontrolminds 6 months ago
@wordscontrolminds Where you would be today with a free market system is that you wouldn't have to wait nearly as long to see a doctor. Reducing the absurd wait times (that are unthinkable in the U.S.) at the NHS is a central theme of every election. The system is bloated with a legion of overpaid managers, so much so that there isn't much money to pay for more hospitals and doctors. This is what happens with a government run system.
MrFreeLibertarian 6 months ago
@wordscontrolminds Also, why would I want to listen to a republican 'pro-life' fanatic? He genuinely believes he is speaking for a whole nation, thats just typical of conservative arrogance and false sense of self-righteousness.Everyone should have the right to decide how they want to be treated by medics at the end of their life, these questions have only arisen because of technology so we need to adapt accordingly.
wordscontrolminds 6 months ago
@wordscontrolminds well said. I could only watch a couple of minutes of this BS. His absurd claim that Congress knows "full-well that Americans deplore abortion and euthanasia" was enough for me to stop wasting my time on anything this pompous liar has to say.
Bottom line, it's childish not to recognize that "end-of-life" issues primarily concern the elderly, and to have no knowledge of what a serious, private family matter it is. His smug dismissal of the ultimate stage of life is inhuman.
ivyshoots 6 months ago
I still can't figure out if this guy is for real. Is he parodying of conservatives?
You know, like the comedians Steven Colbert and Glenn Beck.
HarHoll 8 months ago
See, this is what happens when a dude can't get laid. He spends his pitiful life talking about how Obamacare is somehow going to introduce us to cost-based healthcare, like all insurance companies just aprove everything every patient wants or needs. This asshole has got to be a huge douchebag.
Rushtrdamus 8 months ago
Im so for if someone is dying and wants to end their life, They have that right!
jonnygotz2343 8 months ago
dude.... Democrats be doin too much
Marcuswilliams18 8 months ago
Lol you americans are sooo stupid
TheThh 8 months ago
Come on! This is bonkers! The profit-driven US healthcare system means that doctors are more than happy to recommend useless treatment for people on their way out, rather than palliative care. One good thing about the UK's NHS is the fact that its limited resources mean doctors have to think about whether or not treatments are really useful or whether palliative care is better. A profit-driven system means doctors will recommend surgery against the interests of the patient.
graemephillips 10 months ago
@graemephillips Where did you read all this ? Read the Hippocratic Oath then get back to me......
Auggie56 10 months ago
@Auggie56 Prolonging someone's life at all costs is often in nobody's interests, least of all the patient's. If an overweight and diabetic 90-year old with a long history of heart problems needs a quadruple bypass, it is very definitely in the patient's best interests to give palliative care to make their last days/weeks/months more comfortable. A quadruple bypass would be extremely traumatic for such a person and it would not prolong their life by many years.
graemephillips 10 months ago
@Auggie56 If you think there is benefit in performing a quadruple bypass on such a person, or it's in their best interests, you are completely bonkers. The beauty of a system with finite resources is that physicians have a vested interest in the treatment being useful. If the system were designed such that the health service would make no profit (and simply waste money) by a patient having useless treatment, physicians would think harder about whether or not to recommend useless treatment.
graemephillips 10 months ago
@Auggie56 Besides, under the British system, the NHS might refuse to perform such an operation on such a person, but the person could always go and get the treatment with the private sector. Similarly, under the US system Barack Obama is introducing, I have difficulty believing that a patient couldn't do the same. If the hospital will won't make any extra money from the treatment, it will stop them recommending the most expensive treatment, rather than the one in the patient's best interests.
graemephillips 10 months ago
"Now look, we haven't even covered 1% of the bill, and you can see how bad it is..."
Come on Mike, that is a loaded statement if I've ever heard one, you're advocating throwing out a whole bill based on 1% and refusing to acknowledge any part of that bill could be beneficial.
You raise interesting points, but I think you're biased in this instance more by your political leanings than by a respect for the dignity of life. In spite of that, I appreciate the work you do in making these videos.
sheageeks 10 months ago
why are republicans assholes? i mean why are they anti good everything four people? and who the fuck gives abortion if the mother got pregnant it is her choice weather to keep it or not the goverment does not have control over that and if they did this country would suck :(
bad79ass 11 months ago
Because of the the passage of the 2010 Health Control Law you DO know that the government WILL have control over you soon, right?
CrankyCatholic 11 months ago
@CrankyCatholic what the fuck are you talking about?
bad79ass 11 months ago
The "Agenda"? Is this anything like the "homosexual agenda"?
shmuli9 11 months ago
If any republican can find the money they spent on the iraq war ill vote to repeal healthcare. You know, the war to find WMD's, 4 billion a month. Go ahead, start looking.
cesar333 11 months ago
And people abhor abortion? Say whaaaaa? No YOU abhor abortion. There are approx. 115000 abortions A DAY. 42mil a year. Those are worldwide stats. Sir your beliefs are great and all but facts are called facts for a reason. Try using them next time.
UncontestedTruth 11 months ago
Besides that, whatever you may think of Obama, his momma aint raise no fool. He is smart enough to know how NOT to commit political suicide. End of life, you know when people are about to die, people need care. My grandfather could not even walk before he died so he needed EOL care. This is some serious liberties. EOL care lets you choose how you go out. So i hear people saying "OH NOES OBAMA IS TAKEN MY FREEDOMS" except he wants to make sure we have the ULTIMATE freedom: choosing your death.
UncontestedTruth 11 months ago
ARE PEOPLE SLOW OR JUST LYING? Do people have any clue how fast Obama would be impeached if he proposed euthenasia? No no no I dont think people understand. If he was honestly proposing euthenasia and congress didnt IMMEDIATELY bring up impeachment paperwork, and Im not talking about "Maybe we should kick him out" im talking about straight termination of presidency, then they deserved to be kicked out too.
UncontestedTruth 11 months ago
Fail.
AzuAtoms 11 months ago
Stupid shitface: End of life care is not an execution you stupid dum ass, its a volontary act, IF the thing once gets voted, IF it ever gets through any congress, and IF even liberals and pro abortionist would also question, for the thing can exist, and does exist in european countries, but has to be well implemented. WE ARE FAR FROM EUTHANASIA. End of life care is a specialized program more oriented towards finding the proper treatment against pains (morph), to allow the elderly to suffer less
hamrite 1 year ago
at least find some one who doesn't have a redneck alabama accent, fuck this is pathetic
darkiz7 1 year ago
Private sector propaganda videos like this are designed to thwart the governments attempt to take away their business. If you can't afford insurance now, you die no matter what age you are...watch John Q.
MyFishyWishy 1 year ago
Is this a parody? Is this guy seriously claiming that getting people to plan ahead for their future is the same as euthenasia? If it's not, it's the most dispicable attempt to scare seniors into voting for a specific party that I've ever, and I mean ever, seen.
putzthewondersloth 1 year ago
End of life care means that if you have cancer and are in great pain and WILL die in a month and just suffer for another month you have the right to be killed painlessly. Umm that sounds pretty humane and good to me.
MrSuperawsomeness 1 year ago
Obamacare was signed on March 2010 with 59% of the people disapproving according to a CNN poll. The CBO scored Obamacare on six years of coverage for 10 years of taxes, which is how the CBO showed the bill to be deficit neutral . It’s unconstitutional mandating all citizens to purchase health care. Even Pelosi said, “We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what is in it.” watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To It’s also meant to take over industry watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
Allen West 2012
Fashionificationful 1 year ago
this proves repubs are lying bastards
GTR66960 1 year ago
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I'm not an American. British, live and work here. Love my American colleagues, but totally baffled by the vilification of a president trying to introduce some equity into the health system. Citizens of all the developed countries I know off - except America - regard universal health care, education, law and order, as their birthright. God help anyone in America who falls sick or has an accident without health insurance - or just been let go? tough.
WAKE UP AMERICA........DOH
armstrongariz 1 year ago
Notice that these fuckers are silent when it comes to the Republicans and Arizona refusing to fund transplant patients. Well what do you know, a Republican Death Panel. And what about this: Blue Shield of California seeks rate hikes of as much as 59% for individuals. The CEO is on 10 million, profits last year of 2.4 billion and a 59% increase in premiums. I really hope that these Tea Party fuckers who don't have any Healthcare one day end up at a hospital and are refused care.
v07m9s 1 year ago
these dumb PIGS always try to stop something, I bet if bush made it it will be perfect! fuck bush and fuck the Republican party" all they do is fuck this great country up, the French call Americans INDIGEOUS PIGS" they say because we let our people die when they're sick and have no **GOLDEN TICKET** Insurance cards.. It's our system thats killing out Americans people, it's all for profit.. I say burn the dirty motherfuckers alive and keep the good ones.
ricanlegend203 1 year ago
@Tippy2forU;why do you think there was a global meltdown in '08?..thats when we found out it was gonna hit,a mossad turncoat w/the info told madoff and he told his kid who told lehman bro. and goldman sachs,word spread w/the knowledge that shortly money would be worthless...If you have any loved ones hug them every day...
Fleshcucumber1 1 year ago
@Tippy2forU;I know I was just being facetious,lol...is'nt it quite the paradox that the U.S. is a consumer driven economy,the govt is saying"spend spend or our economy is gonna go in the dumper"and on the other hand they are telling us to conserve for future generations?the world economy is just one big ponzi scheme anyway,we need an overhaul,but all thats not important now that the asteroid approaches.
Fleshcucumber1 1 year ago
it is funny how private trust companies paties people school games something that can change this country for the better.. I guess the worthless healthhcare conpaniew CEOs - do not want anyone getting in between the profit they are making off the poor
ricanlegend203 1 year ago
are american healthcare is worthless. I am an american and I can't stand our garbage care. I pay for everything out of pocket hiney is so expensive I feel like moving sometimes... edinburgh healthcare forms 5 months in I can not getting any more because I am 5 pounds overweight.. I really hope so bama care really comes through because if it doesn't I am moving.. I have noticed, that this country is based on profit and corruption when comes to healthcare
ricanlegend203 1 year ago
@ricanlegend203: Obama care won't happen if the Republicans have anything to say about it. They are planning to break it down piece by piece. Why? So they can make more money off the 'little people in unregulated private healthcare. Let's be truthful here. People aren't going to like Obamacare because it came from some 'N' Muslim and they don't want him telling them what to do. If it would have come from Bush, it would have been the best thing since sliced bread.
Tippy2forU 1 year ago
@Tippy2forU
It's possible to happen I hope it does. Yesterday, I went to the ER and guess what they denied my care cause they said it was not an emergency but if I put 200.00 down that it would be ok and then I could see the doctor. I have no healthcare,I HATE THIS FUCKEN COUNTRIES HEALTHCARE SYSTEM" IT'S A PIECE OF SHIT!!. and if the poor and middle class stick together and vote for the guaranteed healthcare plan Obama is trying to push through we can get it!. Fuck the dirty indigeous PIG REP
ricanlegend203 1 year ago
"And what do you say to incentivizing doctors to push end of life care, as we have found out this week?" I would say that that is unethical, and illegal. I work in a hospital, and no such thing is happening. I would also say that I think you are listening to nothing but the conservative crackpots, and not looking at the whole picture. The conservatives are masters of spin. They can take something innocent and make it seem sinister. discussing end of life options is NOTHING NEW.
zanerbob 1 year ago
I think maybe in light of what we have found out this week about the death panels being reinstated, it might be time to look at this video again --carefully.
Sarah was right, folks.
kozanne 1 year ago
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nicolettepowell 1 year ago
if a person wants to kill themselves and someone is willing to help them...then why the hell not.
EmptyToaster 1 year ago
@EmptyToaster That's between a person and God. The ISSUE is that the government will now be telling us when we are no longer worth keeping alive, whether we want to stay alive or not.
It's pure evil.
kozanne 1 year ago
oh yea. give all my money to people who don't work. awesome. idiot.
doctor's are planning to quit and nurses are following. america is screwed.
krysti22 1 year ago
@krysti22 your healthcare cant be worse than it is, socialist countries are pissing on it.
Interactivesystems 1 year ago
obamacare works,it helps the poor stay healthy and gives the rich trust fund'ers a job as their doctors...win/win!!!
Fleshcucumber1 1 year ago
@Fleshcucumber1: No it doesn't work. The money isn't in the cure. It's in the disease. If people stay sick, they make money. If They get healthy, they don't make money. Didn't you notice all the nay sayers when the First Lady talked about attacking obesity in kids? Those kids grow up to be fat adults with diabetes,heart disease,hypertension,knee replacements, bypasses, etc. There is money in that. It's all about the money and we are screwed.
Tippy2forU 1 year ago
There's nothing wrong with abortion or assisted suicide. But you can't say it's "everyone's own choice" when the government is paying for it and choosing it for you.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter: They would have to change the amendment that reads abortions are not allowed with government funds. Whatever you do in your state is your business but you can't complete an abortion with goverenment funds. Planned Parenthood is a charity. It doesn't use federal funds. Assisted suicide is against the law in every state but one. Taking out someone's feeding tube so they starve to death is perfectly legal if they are brain dead but you have to get guardian consent. That's wrong.
Tippy2forU 1 year ago
@Tippy2forU, how is it wrong if they are brain dead? And I don't understand how it's completely unacceptable to give funds to some specific group of mildly controversial industries and organizations, yet people don't even notice when massive amounts of money go to extremely controversial and morally unjustifiable causes. This would be just about anything the state spends lots of money on.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter: It is possible for the brain to stop functioning and the heart keeps beating. If the body continues to function but there is no brain activity, you are starving the patient if you don’t give them food.
As far as abortion, I guess you can say Christians don't believe you have a right to take a life. They believe life starts at conception but they participate in immoral money making things. I guess you can say a lot of them are a bunch of hypocrites.
Tippy2forU 1 year ago
@Tippy2forU, would you support keeping a patient alive if they had no head whatsoever, but you had the technology to do it? Obviously that's ridiculous. So if their brain is essentially damaged beyond repair and nonfuntional, it might as well be the same thing. At the very least I could see justification for something like cryostasis which is probably cheaper and would keep them intact until they have the technology to fix it, which is the reason for keeping them alive in the first place, right?
Houshalter 1 year ago
And another thing, medical science can't solve all of our problems. I work in a hospital, and as much as we'd all like a magic wand we could wave to make pain and suffering disappear, there is no such thing. Too many times I see people who will never get better, tortured needlessly by being kept alive by relatives who clearly don't understand the situation. So before you go off on Obama about wanting to give everyone the facts, think about having no quality of life, and constant pain. Want that?
zanerbob 1 year ago
You retards! Physician assisted suicide isn't mandatory. Everything you mentioned is ALREADY DISCUSSED WITH TERMINALLY ILL PATIENTS - THIS IS NOTHING NEW! CRETINS!!!
zanerbob 1 year ago
@zanerbob I'm wondering who the cretin really is now.
And what do you say to incentivizing doctors to push end of life care, as we have found out this week?
Those of you in denial will be the ones who burst their own balloon when they realize what has happened to this nation.
kozanne 1 year ago
@kozanne RE: who the cretin is now, you are.
zanerbob 1 year ago
Before the bill was passed I read a lot of it but did the medical card get into the final version? The card we will all have to carry. This card can only be read by a machine. If the machine kicks your card out because you have too many health problems then you are sent to a consultant. The consultant doesn't know how to get your smart card back into the machine but she is an expert on end of life care. Please explain the route of the smart insurance or medical cards.
onshore6 1 year ago
if you wish not to have obamacare do this --- make up your own religion that prohibits going to any doctor or hospital for help - like the christain science people. the goverment cannot force you to go againist your faith - there you go!!
nutbagbrew102 1 year ago
If you don't want the child then let it live, give birth to it, and give it to an orphanage for God's sake! You don't have to kill it and dispose of it like nothing more then a simple nuisance, it has a soul and it has the right to live. Abortion is the cowards way out, unless the mother was raped or the continuation of the babies development threatens her life it should be brought into this world. Abortions are rich bitches ways out of responsibility and accountability, nothing more.
davedavedaveannoy1 1 year ago
Euthanasia is murder, and Abortion is murder. No matter how you slice it assisting someones death is murder. The elderly deserve to live as long as they please. And girls should not have the Abortions. Some say, they are just embryos, a cluster of cells with no soul. But killing it is the prevention of a live human from developing, growing up, and living life is murder. Every fetus deserves the chance to have live, to have children, to enjoy what this world has to offer. They all deserve life!
davedavedaveannoy1 1 year ago
@davedavedaveannoy1 Oh get over yourself you meddlesome idiot.
LadyRuin2012 1 year ago
VIDEO:
"Death Panels Explained"
"Look Out, Grandma!"
"Wealthcare"
and more...
<<< at ObamaSnippetsDotCom
ObamaSnippetsDotCom 1 year ago
Oh goodness. Heaven forbid someone who wants to die might be allowed to do it with dignity, rather than feeling forced to live because the God-botherers tell them it's immoral.
I genuinely don't know what you're complaining about. You're moaning that an elderly person has the choice not to be forced to go on living when they come close to death?
You and your ilk always bang on about liberty, but when someone wants the liberty to die in peace, you come out and condemn it.
MrToadful 1 year ago
I hate stupid americans
emeliUK 1 year ago
Here is my eithanasia: i will take a bullet from the government defending my freedom before i pay anything into Obamacare.
rowland2110 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dr. Donald Berwick, the man who will run your health care: "I cannot believe that the individual health care consumer can enforce through choice the proper configurations of a system as massive and complex as health care. That is for leaders to do. ... About 8% of GDP is plenty for 'best known' care. ... A progressive policy regime will control and rationalize financing—control supply."
modifiedcontent 1 year ago
Can anyone name a govt at any time in history that has the people's best interest at heart? I can't think of any and thus any govt takeover of any aspect of our lives is at best giving up our freedoms. Govt's want to control the world and the people... case closed.
luke19631963 1 year ago
@honxygoeshonk Nobody in this country wanted health care all obama did was keep pushing it till it went through! This puts many private insurance companies out of business, like we really need more of that. All this leads to is more governmental power! That is what is so great about this country freedom!
AjakeC1 1 year ago
It says ADMINISTERING hydration and nutrition not dehydrating ppl damn they are clutching at every little thing to prove their point.
EricNyhmfan 1 year ago
@honxygoeshonk if you didn't know health care was pushed through so that the government has more governmental power! Im sorry but did you ever see Americans migrating to Canada because of there health care?! no they didn't Canadians were coming to this country for transplants and surgeries because that health care system is so bad! people have to wait hours for care ! im going to laugh if your mom has a life threatening illness and she dies because you have to wait so long to get any care!
AjakeC1 1 year ago
@honxygoeshonk news flash the government is not for the people these days buddy!
it used to be not no more
AjakeC1 1 year ago
end-of life CARE. CARE!!
personof11777 1 year ago
This is fucking stupid "we haven't looked at 1% of the bill and you can already see how bad it is" ok, find 99 other things you disagree with dickhead.
Obama, nor any of the bills supporters, deny that abortion would be part of the bill, this isn't so much a political resistance than a religious one. Why is abortion bad? Why is euthanasia bad? Because your god sais so? Then fuck off, separation of church and state is there for a reason.
Don't like abortion/suicide?
DON'T FUCKING DO IT THEN!
ihateruncie123 1 year ago
The ObamaCare bill is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia
muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically
exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and
also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers
insurance to be "gambling", "risk-taking" and "usury" and is
thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption based on
this. Non-muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize muslims. Period.
This is Dhimmitude.
drewstarr71 1 year ago
@drewstarr71 in a way hes forcing a religion on us dont you think?
AjakeC1 1 year ago
@AjakeC1 I agree, they are doing just that.
drewstarr71 1 year ago
@drewstarr71 What's so bad about helping ppl even if 1 tiny fraction of them are terrorists?
EricNyhmfan 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Word of the Day: Dhimmitude
Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-muslim
populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the
TAXING of non-muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence
AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to islam.
drewstarr71 1 year ago
We should keep the government out of end of life care, but a person has a right to end their own life - you own your life and it is your decision whether or not to end it, not the government's (or the religious totalitarians')
r74quinn 1 year ago
Yep this video speaks the truth. Thumbs up.
jimmyjohnsonrocks123 1 year ago
@Dawn554
Me too!
Sogwa 1 year ago
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Sogwa 1 year ago
WITHOUT Obamacare, my mom was murdered b/c they pulled the plug on her b/c she signed her "death wish" (medical directive to not get food, water, or ventilator help). l know it is HER WISH, but why is this illegal for some kid to kill himself & they stick him in some hospital for a stupid 3-day observation but it's OK for some old or sick person to starve, suffocate, or die of thirst?!
MURDER IS MURDER & THIS bullshit is going on NOW withOUT Obamacare!!
Sogwa 1 year ago
I 100000% AGREE WITH YOU!!!
THIS IS PURE ABOMINATION & MURDER!
First off, how is this abomination any different than those legal living wills, medical directives, & other devices lawyers draft & swindle folks (such as my mom) into dying of starvation, thirst, or suffocation /aka/ MURDER!!
Dr. Korvorkian is the SAME as the murder that occurred from doctors, hospitals, & lawyers NOW!! Just ask my momoh, Gladys Spellman Nursing Home ALREADY pulled the plug on her WITH OUT Obamacare!!
Sogwa 1 year ago
we need to help those who wanted to commit suicide. let them die in peace.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
Are u being sarcastic and funny or serious? Do you support teen suicide as well?
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
i am serious. adults should be able to kill themselves if they want too. it is your body and you have the right to do whatever u want.
this is free world. we can't have the government going around telling people not to masterbate, eat or whatever.
teens are not adult. they are not capable to making decision. there should be an age requirement for suicide. we have age requirement that u can buy alcohols and smokes, getting marry, drive a car, vote, etc.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
Then at what age is someone "sane" enough to kill themselves? 20? 30? If it's in their 20 or 30;s humans are STILL VERY IMMATURE! lgnorant people do stupid things all the time to regret it later.
What's not to say some weak person feeling depressed b/c they lost a bunch of $, or got dumped wants to kill them self at 30 BUT if they get therapy & help with their addiction they may feel totally different in 2 or 3 years.
That's why therapists exist to help suicidal folks.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
Even if they don't succeed, if they try & kill themself INSTEAD of getting therapy and help, how will that help them. Folks can take drugs also. No one's stopping them but the consequences of homeless addicts loitering train stations puts a great strain on the area.
Freedom to fuck who u wish is TOTALLY different than freedom to kill yourself or someone else. U can't bring someone or yourself back from death regardless of age!
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
no, no, no.
the person must be in the right mind, mature and responsible. we can't allow people on drugs, depress, etc. to go and commit suicide. we should have doctors to check out that person.
we require candidate to be at least 35 years of age and in stable mind to run for president. let's follow that rule.
if u considered all humans to be immature then politicians are immature as well. they should not determine my life. if i am immature but i get to determine own my life.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
Well the ONLY time someone who is NOT depressed wishes 2 kill themself is if it's cultural like "hara kare" (or however u pronounce that Japanese act of suicide), Muslem honor killing, etc. Or it's for some religion such as Jim Jones, Muslem seeking 32 virgins, or the Hail Bop Comet religion.
Most "normal" people would consider such acts extreme and insane, even if they are over 40 years old!
Sane people in a FREE society who r in sound mind don't try and kill themself.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
"Sane people in a FREE society who r in sound mind don't try and kill themself." wrong. there are sane people who do want to kill themselves for whatever reason.
the Japaneses who cut their own stomach. so what? let them. that is their own choice and life.
Muslim honor killing is not suicide. that is murder. there is a difference between killing yourself and someone killing u.
stupid people followed Jim Jones to their deaths. that was brainwashed and murdered not suicide.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
Many Muslim "honor suicides" r done (of couse via pure pressure of the family & society like Japanese hari kari) r done by and at the hands of that person NOT someone else. Just like a suicide bomber, they strap a bomb 2 themselves 2 blow up some area.
As for Jim Jones, Hail Bop comet, etc. they were stupid & brainwashed, but they still willingly drank the poison. The few that were smart hid & escaped.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa @KhmerD0g
Like u, l'd care less if someone l don't know & never plan 2 meet chose 2 do such. l guess l have enuf problems in MY life 2 be too concerned with someone else. However there is a very thin line between hara kare & honor killing. If someone ELSE kills u 4 their honor then YES it's murder. lf u do it (willing or not) then it is still suicide. Unfortunately for them there was no escape or other option in their horrific community.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa @KhmerD0g (#3)
As for some brainwashed moron drinking cool aid, that is NO DIFFERENT than hara kare. One is just in a small religious cult & another is throughout a whole society. Both r suicide.
Suicide is murder whether u care for that person or even care if it even exist, it is STILL murder. That is why it's suffix ends in "CIDE"
U have geno cide, homo cide suici cide, etc. CIDE is a root. & if u feel some 20 year old should seek therapy & help 2 prevent his death then ....
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#4)
.........then u should ALSO feel some brainwashed idiot & ESPECIALLY someone forced by their society to kill THEMSELVES an offer of escape.
& some religions believe folks who kill themselves will NOT make it to heaven b/c they r murderers. They murdered their own body that God gave them. l believe Catholics & some Christianity beliefs support that. This is such a popular religious belief, appoints point out Samson who killed himself when he pushed the columns down.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
forcing someone to do something is wrong.
suicide means WILLING to take your own life. i said WILLING. free WILL is different from forcing or pressure.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
l guess we must agree 2 disagree. Altho l have no time to worry or care about some depressed person, brainwashed idiot, or foreigner kills himself, l STILL believe & know it's WRONG - free will and all.
If u as a human being did NOT make & create ur own body (regardless of what religion u follow or if u follow one at all) U must realize that u had absolutely no say or control if u were born, how u were born, or when u were born......
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa @KhmerD0g (pt. 2)
........With that, how can someone (free will & all) have 100% say in when they die?
l understand it's THEIR WILL but THEIR OWN WILL to kill themselves (hara kare, brainwashed follower, depressed person, etc.) it is STILL murder. Murder of their own flesh.
And yes, some depressed or even ill individual deciding to end their life is way different than hara kara & honor suicide. But l personally feel that ALL of them ....
Sogwa 1 year ago
...@Sogwa @KhmerD0g (pt. 3)
And yes, some depressed or even ill individual deciding to end their life is way different than hara kara & honor suicide. But l personally feel that ALL of them should seek an excape and help. Aministy in another country to excape killing theirself to save the honor of their family. Thearpy for their depression, etc.
Me personally, l find it ALL SHADY & WRONG! But that's me personally.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
free will set people free. u sound like u like to live in a country run by a dictator who control every aspect of your live.
if Hilter told u not to kill yourself u have no problem with that. if Hitler told u not to eat nor drink u have no problem with that too.
i certainly don't like to live in a country that controls my personal life. i don't like the government tell me not to eat fatty food, smoke, have sex or kill myself.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
Murder is murder whoever tells u to do it! Whether it's Hitler or yourself! Living in a country where someone tells u what to eat, drink, smoke, who 2 like, love, fuck, and hate? That sounds like the AMERICAN MEDIA!! And NOT the JUST the current Amer. media BUT the Amer. media back from the start in the early 20's!
Ever notice the constantly changing trends in beauty standards? Ever notice how it went from shapely women in the 40's to rail thin in the 60's, to everything else?
Sogwa 1 year ago
Comment removed
Sogwa 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g Sogwa
"free will set people free" as you freely kill yourself...
Ha ha ha!! Funny!
The ONLY time suicide seems Being Set FREE is in extreme cases. Perhaps like how some Africans jumped overboard on the slave ships. Or perhaps how Japanese Samuri's kill themselves when they r caught & about to taken prisoners.
Or perhaps how the Jews killed all their family off & then themselves at Ein Geti but maybe not b/c THEY killed their family. The family did NOT kill themselves off.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
i said free will without outside influence. why are u still using example of pressure and other forces to influence people making decision? u commit suicide only when u are not influence by drug or other forces. got that? slaves are forced into the condition that they don't want. so jumping overboard to kill themselves does not consider free will suicide. same goes with the samuri.
u are confused. if Bill Gates kill himself that is consider suicide. he is rich, free and have a family.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
& Again, this is good why? At least slaves or the caught samurai has a reason 2 kill himself OUTSIDE of basic depression. If Bill Gates who is free, rich, & with family kills himself that is considered a tragedy. lf a slave or samurai kills themself that is more understandable.
l think YOU don't get that "sane", free, "normal" people who r NOT under pressure do NOT go and kill themself UNLESS they r DEPRESSED, or SUFFERING some other PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITION NEEDING THERAPY!
Sogwa 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
"Normal," SANE, Free, people do NOT commit suicide UNLESS They have a psychological or mental condition! No one says "l'm board, l think l'll shot myself for fun!" A lunatic (who should be locked away from the public b/c he's a potential menace 2 society) would! A depressed person (needing therapy & help) would!
A normal, SANE, human would NOT willingly decide to kill themself!!
Where on earth have u ever heard of someone SANE deciding to kill themself?!
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
u have not met anyone who is sane, free and willing to commit suicde. let me introduce u to one.
how about me. i'm 74 years old. i have a very good life and i still do. i have lived long enough. i still have a job, just part time. i have 2 children. they are all grown up. they have their own family and life. i had a wife. my wife died 8 years ago. u expect me to remarry and have more kids? come on.
i'm ready to die but i have not kill myself yet. i want to have that option open.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g
l hear exactly what ur saying, but u r no different than a parent losing her child or how many couples (or twins) suffer loss. A mother never gets over buring her kid & obviously very close spouces never get over their loss. What u, my mom, & many spouces suffer from is grief & loss reguardless of time.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#2)
And the answer (or at least a solution to some point of comfort & positive results) is THEARPY!!! Grief counceling, group therpy, talking to a pastor, rabbi, priest, yogi, or some spiritual advisor. Or even speaking with a psychic or medium. Dealing with ur grief & taking action to rid it is the answer - NOT getting help, ignoring it, acting like ur OK is NOT going 2 work & is NOT the answer!
Sogwa 1 year ago
Comment removed
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#2)
..........And the answer (or at least a solution to some point of comfort & positive results) is THERAPY!!! Grief counseling, group therapy, talking to a pastor, rabbi, priest, yogi, or some spiritual adviser. Or even speaking with a psychic or medium. Dealing with ur grief & taking action to rid it is the answer - NOT getting help, ignoring it, acting like ur OK is NOT going 2 work & is NOT the answer!.....
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#3)
..................As l said earlier, A normal, SANE, human would NOT willingly decide to kill themself! A depressed person (needing therapy & help) would!
Grandpa died in 1992 & grandma but as upset & single (again) as granny was - considering buying a coffin from Costco to keep for her time, she is STILL here, cooking, cleaning, sewing, gardening, active in church, & ALMOST 90!!
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#4)
................Mon on the other hand COMPLETELY gave up after daddy died in 2001. Married right from her parents & unlike the typical Amer. stayed married until death did them part. That was the 1st time she was alone & me (still being single b/c l have yet lived in Europe or somewhere) not having any kids 4 her......
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#5)
...........Like u, she was ready 2 see daddy "Perhaps tonight" as she told her close friend for years. She refused to take her meds, eat healthy, told my friend how she was going 2 have a stroke, & went all out to go out with a bang.
Unfortunately it didn't happen like that. & being she signed that horrific death wish (medical directive) w/OUT ObamaCare, they pulled the plug......
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa (#6)
..........Now if ur family aint crap, ur friends, neighbors, aint crap, & no good folks r left in ur neighborhood (& l wouldn't know that - ONLY U would)
(or if ur some lunatic, rapist, or serial killer) then go for it. It's all up 2 u screw everyone else.
However if ur family, friends, neighbors, etc. r not a pile of crap, it is EXTREMELY SELFISH 4 u 2 just kill urself & the hell w/ everyone else.
Sogwa 1 year ago
@Sogwa
look, life has its limit. all humans are programed to die. my wife died of natural cause. i learned to accept that and moved on. her death has nothing to do with me wanting to commit suicide. i am still happy. i have a girlfriend. we take care of each other.
u still think i want to kill myself because my wife died. no, no, no, no...
she died 8 years ago.
u want me to get marry and have more kid? get real here. don't be ridiculous.
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
@KhmerD0g If your wife had wanted to commit suicide, and you understood it was her final decision, would you have given her your blessing? If so, would you have sat down and watched her do it?
jimmyjohnsonrocks123 1 year ago
@jimmyjohnsonrocks123
yes. and only if she is finished with her responsibility. if we still have kids that are still under 18 and not yet have a proper career than no. she cannot kill herself until she finished her motherly obligation.
government can't tell what individual do with their own body. i don't want the government to tell me i can't kill myself or eat fatty food
KhmerD0g 1 year ago
you people are idiots. This is no different than the options already giving to dieing people. Stop twisting Obamas words. Dont support the death of unborn children but support the sending our young men and women dieing for oil..... Douchebags
cmik24 1 year ago
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/watch?v=J9N1LWAQAHM&feature=related, all people see this video...an arrested Taliban/Lashker terrorist confessed working for indians and being paid for killing people in Pakistan...
shazycalm 1 year ago
The video seems to make a habit out of stating that Obama "equates" end-of-life care. If the people behind it are nearly as smart as they pretend to be, they realize how grossly they're misrepresenting him on this issue. Euthanasia is an aspect of end-of-life care, which is CLEARLY what Obama meant in the interview. He by no means recognizes it as the ONLY aspect of end-of-life care (no decent human being does). To say he "equates" the two is absurd.
EtotheRess 1 year ago
@EtotheRess
If, say, a State passed legislation that increased the maximum penalty for rapists, and Obama said that he thought the people of that state were doing a service for the country in recognizing that we've got to think about how sexual activity affects our society, would we think he was equating rape with sex? No, we wouldn't, and that would probably be because we agree with that sentiment.
EtotheRess 1 year ago
@EtotheRess
Here's the deal, I 100% agree with your protest against euthanasia. Human life is sacred, and should be protected with everything we have in our power. What is NOT okay is for people such as the American Life League to blatantly misrepresent someone's position on the issue in order to demonize them. They are guilty of the same "linguistic acrobatics" they denounce in the video.
Because we know what they're really saying is "death panel."
EtotheRess 1 year ago
The sky is falling!
More fearmongering from the right!
ElizaDay66 1 year ago
@ElizaDay66
Ignorant bitch....Maybe you should just take the pain pill.
rogertrew 1 year ago
@rogertrew typical right-wing tactic. Let's resort to namecalling at anyone who challenges us. Pure ignorance.
"Death panels" are not knew. They are very real right now. I consulted w/ someone when my mom died and when Bush was still president. You people need to educate yourself with our current health care system. Your ignorance makes you putty in the Republican party's hands. They know you are clueless as to the way things are now so they resort to fear tactics.
ElizaDay66 1 year ago
@ElizaDay66 knew = new.
ElizaDay66 1 year ago
...I was hoping to visit my relatives in Germany I haven't seen for years but now with 'obamacare' my chances are gone I may not live long enough and the gov't may knock me off.... I am a senior..thanks obama & obamacare!
035jdj 1 year ago
SO EVIL, I'd hate for my grandma to have a choice as how she wants to pass.
HearingEveryRhyme 1 year ago
oooooooo euthanasia is so bad, if I want to be put out of my misery in specific situations, it is disgusting that I choose choose my fate.
HearingEveryRhyme 1 year ago
This video is, at best, much ado about nothing.
At worst, it's blatant fear-mongering.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
The problem is that trying to get people afraid of a certain side's argument by calling it fear mongering...
Sounds a lot like fear mongering.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
LOL! Clever, but not applicable here.
Perhaps you'd prefer to call this a strawman or a slippery slope argument--pick your logical fallacy.
The fact remains that when you exaggerate in order to make your point, any actual argument--no matter how valid--gets lost amid all the hyperbole. Appealing to emotion (in this case, fear) might garner attention, but in the long run it works against you.
Believe me, if there really WERE the prospect of "death panels" and the like, I'd be alarmed.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Oh yeah! One of them! Someone who has a minimal understanding of rhetorical devices and brandishes terms he heard in speech class. The logical equivalent of the High School Psych student who claims anytime someone doesn't like someone else it is projection. The slippery slope fallacy is only a fallacy if... it is a fallacy. If the slippery slope can be shown to be likely (or inevitable) it is not a fallacy. By the way, pointing out phantom fallacies, kind of a fallacy.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
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"...trying to get people afraid of a certain side's argument by calling it fear mongering...sounds a lot like fear mongering."
"...pointing out phantom fallacies, kind of a fallacy..."
You come across as a bit of a one-note song. :)
The strawman fallacy clearly applies. The proposal at issue attempts to INCREASE individual autonomy concerning end-of-life issues, not empower the government to make those decisions. And the term "death panel" (like "death tax") is an overt appeal to emotion.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
I might rescind my claim about the slippery slope fallacy, provided you can show me real-world examples of how expanding the use end-of-life consultations has led to actual "death panels."
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Ahhhh. Perfect. You were not arguing against what I had said, you were arguing against what you wanted me to have said. I am not addressing end-of-life counseling. I am refering to the Comparative Effectiveness Research Commission. This panel makes decisions on whether a treatment is fiscally worth keeping a person alive, and if it is, for how long. If and when it decides a treatment is not worth it, members are denied that treatment.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
As I mentioned, we covered this issue a couple of weeks back.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
That is exactly what is being called a death panel. A Commission (generally interchangable with panel) that decides whether or not a treatment staving off death may be applied. The fact that you don't like it being called a Death Panel does not mae it less real. You are first guilty of your own straw-man argument. You are secondly guilty of denying something based on your not liking what it is called. I bet you don't like the phrase death tax. It's still real.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
I'm talking about the "death panel" referred to in this video (and by Palin)--sec. 1233 of HR3200. You and I have already discussed the provision in the stimulus package, and I've already explained why it doesn't qualify as a "death panel" either.
I object to all provocative slang terms the sole purpose of which is to obscure and inflame.
I don't like the estate tax, no matter what it's called. But I think the tax fails on its merits; there's no need to rename it to score political points.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Palin was referring to the CERC. Further, it is terrible rhetoric to end a post with a glaring, well-known logical fallacy, the same post you accused someone else of several logical fallacies. Further trying to rile people up with accusations of fear-mongering sounds an awful lot like fear-mongering to me. Further, I apologize about assuming you liked the death tax, it's just most Scialists in this country tend to. However the point still remains that if you do not like what something has(cont.)
sgtkpf 1 year ago
been labeled, it doesn't change the reality of that thing. You seem to misunderstand. The point of these labels is the exact opposite of the obscuring and inflaming you see in them. It is to clarify. Using euphemisms to conceal the point of these things that the American public clearly would not support is what muddies the issue. Not calling a proverbial spade a spade in the instance of death panels is tantamount to "the Final Solution." Doesn't sound so bad under that name....
sgtkpf 1 year ago
A Nazi reference? Really?
And what on Earth gave you the impression I'm a "Socialist"? Because I took issue with people who use provocative terminology to score political points? (FYI, I don't care for euphemisms either.)
I'm limited-government, pro-Second Amendment, pro-life, anti-affirmative action, and I think we should build a wall on our southern border and make English the official language. Does that sound leftist to you?
This pissing contest has grown tiresome. Peace.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Yes a Nazi reference. I fail to see how it's inappropriate when you're talking about Government going wrong and covering it up. That certainly does not sound Leftist, and I hope it's all true. It was more your standing up for Socialized medicine (Socialists tend to stand up for Scoialization of things.) I wasn't trying to engage in a pissing contest. Sorry it came of that way.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
And I'm sorry for my petulance. YouTube doesn't always bring out my best side.
I'm not sure why you thought I was defending socialized medicine; I made it clear in our earlier exchange (a few weeks back) that I did NOT support Obamacare.
Anyway, no harm, no foul. I suspect there's an awful lot on which we'd agree about the dangers of expansive government. The tea-party movement notwithstanding, I fear our country is moving in the "nanny state" direction of Western Europe. Unfortunately.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
You said you did not support a certain bill. Many Socialists don't as they feel it is too free market (an idea that mae me want to vomit.)
I feel you're right, and it is a shame. However I feel that you have taken a dangerous stance. While it is certainly dangerous to become riled up over every little infraction, it is certainly just as dangerous to sit idly by. You call referencing "death panels" fear mongering, and maybe it is. But to assume that there could never be any such thing (cont)
sgtkpf 1 year ago
can be just as dangerous. Similarly, I could practically see you roll your eyes when I made an analogy to the Nazis. Now, both sides of the aisle jump at the chance to call each other Nazi's. And this common usage has certainly desensitized a lot of people to the atrocities that the Nazi's commited. However, your assuming that any Nazi analogy is made by a wingnut can have very scary side effects. When exactly does it become okay to make a Nazi analogy? Because assuming we ever had a (cont)
sgtkpf 1 year ago
@sgtkpf
Yes, desensitization is precisely the danger. When the Nazi label is thrown around indiscriminately, then people don't have a frame of reference when TRUE genocide is taking place (e.g., Rwanda).
It's like when feminists starting labeling as rape ANY sexual episode that a woman comes to regret later on. The effect is to downplay the horror of ACTUAL rape.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
And the opposite is true. Not only is wha you've said happened (which is sickening enough,) but now feminists who have been raped and report it appear to be exaggerating. And that is just as terrible.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
National Socialist party in this country, we technically could not call them Nazi's, because they were not German. So while there are obviously not any serious Nazi politicians in this country, many politicians agree with a lot of the scariest parts of Nazi ideology (I veiw the totalitarianism as worse then the racism, because racism in itself doesn't harm anyone, as terrible as it is.) However, you seem to think that we can not point out the similarities. I think doing so would prevent trajedy.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
@sgtkpf
You make some good points, and I agree that there are times when the Nazi references might be apt (perhaps, say, when discussing abortion).
However, most of the time the comparison is not fair. The National Socialists were involved in genocide--the systematic extermination of millions of people. I can think of NO analogues in American politics.
The same is true when people attempt to compare our leaders to Hitler. (Sorry, but as bad as Bush and Obama are, they aren't THAT bad!)
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Keep in mind, the boy who cried wolf is not the only problem. The man who didn't believe there was a wolf because wolf attacks could never happen in America, or that if there really were wolf attacks, he'd be worried are as bad if not worse. There is also the man who says that it's not really a wolf, it's just a dog. Or it may actually be a dog, but he still may have ripped someone's throat off. You need to be careful of these people as well.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
When you refuse to accept any argument that even mentions Nazis (I was merely making an analogy that didn't even call anyone a Nazi or say any of their policies were Nazi-like, I simply showed what euphemisms can do) you make it really, really easy for a real Nazi to walk-in and take over one day. If you immediately dismiss every argument using the word Nazi as illegitimate, what happens when they're right? You will have already tuned them out.
sgtkpf 1 year ago
As I said, abortion is about the only issue I can think of that might merit a Nazi comparison, just in terms of the sheer number of lives involved (and even that analogy has problems).
My point is, no Nazi is going to "walk in and take over one day." Change, especially in a democratic nation, is incremental. Americans tend to be a vigilant (read: paranoid) lot; we'd sound the alarm LONG before a holocaust-type event could take place.
Just look at the uproar over nonexistent "death panels"!
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
And just look at your reaction to the "uproar" over existant death panels!
Where you see vigilance, I see complacency. It should be pretty clear to everyone that Americans prefer the status quo. That being said, change is not always incremental. That is the idea, but plans like that do not always work out. Further, your second sentence proves my point. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge that a Nazi could ever come to power. (cont)
sgtkpf 1 year ago
Complacency is a problem, yes, but not when it comes to extremist political groups, which tend to be ignored by the American population.
I'm much more concerned about a GRADUAL move toward "benevolent" statism, in which our individual autonomy and liberties are slowly eroded away as governmental authority increases. (That's pretty much been the trend here in California, with disastrous results.)
However, should our economy actually collapse--well, then, all bets are off.
ClumsyRoot 1 year ago
Well, I think any thinking person would agree that gradual change poses a much more serious threat. But that does not make a radical change towards Statism any less dangerous, simply because it is less likely than a gradual one. You're more likely to die in a car crash than a plane crash, doesn't mean that a plane crash is any less horrific, or less possible. And finally, we call Light Beer, Beer. Why not call Light Nazi's Nazi's?
sgtkpf 1 year ago