Conservative Anglicans Priests Consider Offer to Join Catholic Church

[Nimo753]

Anglican mission into the Catholic stubbon world starts here....Catholics will soon become Anglicans ...God is with u in your mission guys ....or easier if you behead the pope first

[sangrepatriotica]

How to admit these Protestants as Catholic? Since Vatican II Rome is as heretic as the Protestant, or may be even more. Conservative or not, English heresy has no Apostolic Succession on its clergy. Matter is not about clergy marriage or concubinage, but about Apostolic Succession and serious doctrinal mistakes obviously. We must pray for the conversion of all the heretics. An Orthodox Christian deacon.

[ctbarfield]

Here is a key question. Should the Church offer a pure, historical Christianity or should it offer a modernized Christianity tailored to current taste? By definition, the pure historical form will not have divorce, gay marriage, or female ordination. All of those things go against either the Bible or else ancient Church tradition.. The modernized approach to Christianity will reflect whatever people want in the given day. Frankly, both approaches have problems.

[JesusNonEnviromental]

Women should not Usurp the Authority of Men in the congregation. God teaches that woman are the weaker vessel and should be silent during the assembly. This is the Will of God and its pride which causes women to seek the roles of men in the Church and not love or humility. It is a public demonstration of rebellion against the Authority of Gods Word and the apostacy of secular thinking in the church.

[MrMijana]

Respond to this video... You areWrong! It is the men who have usurped authority by force .It is not God but men who claim to be the will of God,You woudnt like to be the "WEAKER vessel "The word WEAK -is a proof that men have used the physical prowess to put down all women as a Threat .Dont let pride of our sexual organs be the focus of our claim to GODs Word..Its a shame your views are no better than a hardline islamic cleric .

[JesusNonEnviromental]

@MrMijana Mere babble,  Your wisdom is not biblical but has been inspired by women who hate men and their role of submission in this life to men.

[MrMijana]

@JesusNonEnviromental So your wisdom is Biblical and you are inspired by men who look down upon women,especially if the women are earning or working or supporting families which is traditionally only done by men. Its easy for men to be "biblically inclined " as it is designed to benefit them and so would a lot of women be if it benefited them to do so ,but the truth is not in being Hardline Theoligists but to realise there is something more to religion

[JesusNonEnviromental]

@MrMijana God has a role for everyone in the Church and women are said to be more holy when governed with a quite spirit when I say that woman are the weaker vessel I did not mean according to strength but spiritual

[MrMijana]

@JesusNonEnviromental So u claim that women are not only physically weaker but  ALSO spiritually deficient weak & poor..This GOD we worship is a God suited for us men and we claim women are of a lesser making .There are conditions too that make women more holy acc to you but is there any way that God can see them as spiritual equal to men????Even God is observing the arrogance men ....

[JesusNonEnviromental]

@MrMijana It is not about ability but our Roles in the Body of Christ. Our roles are not based on our ability bu the Holy Spirits governance. We must all take upon ourselves the roles which have been given the genders. Woman are called to a silent submission and men are called to lead. Again, the ability comes from God just as the Roles are ordained by God

[rrbond07]

You obviously do not have the slightest knowledge of the Catholic faith, nor have the slightest idea of what Christ intended for his church. Each has their own place within the church and each makes a contribution. Christ chose men to lead and govern his church and to serve him at the altar. But trying to explain to people like you who hate the Catholic Church is pointless.

[dsindc]

@Aenglaland (cont), the financial "bread and butter" of the R.C. Church has been the professional middle class that has so represented Episcopalians in the U.S., and some other denominations. THEY are leaving in droves. While the immigrants keep the numbers steady, the money flow is drying up. People here are simply fed up. Enough with the scandals, enough with the cover up of the hierarchy of the church - it has become depraved.

[dsindc]

@Aenglaland Well said. But the entire direction of this post and the resulting thread is ignoring the real pressing issue: Christianity is on life support in Europe. I don't care about anecdotal information, the Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, free churches, etc. are ALL showing not just a serious decilne in participation, but a break with the religious tradition of Europe and much of the world. The R.C. Church in the U.S. is holding membership steady ONLY because of immigrants.

[drdst17]

There is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - based in Rome upon the Bishop of Rome, the Successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ.

There are no "women priests", their orders are NOT valid and never will be. There are women PRETENDING to be priests in some the heretical "christian" faiths, but the True Faith does not allow them, and rightfully so.

[dsindc]

@drdst17 And you are pretending to have a monopoly on the truth. My undergraduate education was in the field of Anthropology, and I can assure you that the history of religions indicates that those that become legalistic, and completely averse to change or revisiting long held theological "truths" die. 2000 years is not that long in human history. But you go on being smug- I sure it helps you feel warm, secure and superior. I suspect those who encounter you find you a total bore.

[MrMijana]

@dsindc You done well ! Love ur thoughts !

[ScottMacFie]

Curious: Could we EVER get Gay Anglicans (or any for that matter) to spend as MUCH TIME criticizing Islam, the treatment of Christians in Muslim countries and the hatred of gays in Muslim countries and by Muslims all over the world?

Curious...could we ever find a small cadre of gay Christians that will actually "target" Muslim "homophobes" to even a TENTH of the degree they have against "traditional" Anglicans and Catholics?

[MrNafetalai]

Why are we leaving that bit when Peter used Jesus - because it will weaken the Catholic Faith - wheres the truth?

[Ozricroxtah8]

if you think we Anglicans are heretic of women priests what about you Catholics and your priests not marrying Mathew 8:14 says And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his "WIFE's" mother laid, and sick of a fever.

[TrainmasterCurt]

I still think female priests look wrong, i dont know what it is, i just think they do, and i cannot be part of a church that has one now

[Hkepfer]

@sweetgothicrevenge But that is not the way faith works.

[Hkepfer]

I am serious. Out here in LA one of Auxiliaries was on the commission to fact find for the state of US Seminaries –& report was to the point & some key changes are necessary but they did not find matters to the extent you describe.

If in my parish shenanigans were going, trust me, many would tell our Auxiliary in a heartbeat & the Cardinal would get involved. It is zero tolerance. I myself was fingerprinted and I am only an usher.

[MrMijana]

Christ said " Do this in memory of me" and it is not for men folk to presume that this means that they are a replacement of some sort for Jesus by virtue of their sexual attributes . It is not right for the memory of Jesus...It is right for women to be ordained as priests for justice to be done..!!

[Hkepfer]

@MrMijana Hear! Hear!

[MrMijana]

@Hkepfer Tha tWOMEN in the Catholic church are second class members,second class spiritual members is a stark REALITY. Apostolic basis for not having WOMEN PRIESTS in the catholic church is a red herring -to cover up the fear of renovating the Catholic Church to become a more caring ,loving ,inspiring church. Fear NOT the changes as it is way to do justice to the Memory of JESUS.Women should be allowed active particpation in all activities to make it a TRULY UNIVERSAL CHURCH .

[MrMijana]

@Hkepfer ..There is no doubt that men and women have contributed immensely but thethe glaring FACT remains that altar is considered OUT OF BOUNDS for a woman.It is sad and discriminatory..If the Church recognises this anamoly and corrects it , There is no need to be lured,lied to or provoked.There are so many women who are nuns who would gladly take up work as priests especially in areas where there is a shortage of priests instead of circulating child abusing priests(wolves in sheep clothes)

[Hkepfer]

@MrMijana This is not an issue of fairness, it is an issue of orthodoxy.

If you only knew the contribution women in my family have made to the church on a local basis you would know why I object to your statement.

No woman in my family would allow anyone to consider them 2nd class in any context.

Also I know personally that my close relative who was the 3rd woman ordained in Latin America was lied too, lured and unduly provoked.

So much of what happened was Simony at it's worst.

[rrbond07]

First of all MrMijana, since when does the Catholic Church consider women 2nd class citizens? Obviously you don't have any idea of the churchs history. There are at least three women who have been declared Doctors of the Church, not to mention the numerous women who have started religious communities centuries ago and have contributed to the growth of the church and salvation of souls, healthcare and education.

Also, Christ NEVER changes. People have evolved into faithless people.

[MrMijana]

@rrbond07 If women have done such wondersWhy not accept that they 'll be able to do even better as priests.Your understanding aboutGod is bound by indoctrination and fear.Some of thehighly religious (including Phallus worshippers seriously believePHALLUS represents the universe and God and all good)often bound to blind ritualistic views.The catholic view is a milder ,diluted version.Islam tooclaims Allah isthe only Male & worshippers are all Female.Dont reduce Christ to this!

[rrbond07]

@MrMijana False, Christ chose men to govern His church and sacrafice at the altar. Christ is both God, Priest and man. Doesn't even take half a brain to realize how Christ desired his church to be lead.

[MrMijana]

@rrbond07 People and faith have evolved .GodLOVESall people equally.the world has changed .No more are we bronze age hunters who made rules by the power of TESTESTERONE.There are so many "Divine" revelations ,sacred Books' in every religion that claim that women are inferior', are slaves ,should be beaten,live uncomplaining with polygamous men, born tobe sexual slaves and unfortunately born into such circumstances they no choice but 2 believe in it too.Uhave understoodChrist onlyas arab bedouin

[Engus1]

The term 'Priest' is not gender neutral. It is male.

If you ordain women to the Priesthood, then they will be 'Priestesses', not Priests.

The Anglican Church, primarily because of the terrible leadership of the ABC Roman the Spineless, is ripping itself apart from the inside.

The Episcopal Church in the USA is also doing the same thing.

The Anglican Ordinariate will give the Anglican Rites and Rubrics a lasting place within the Roman Catholic Church.

Swim the Tiber. The water is fine.

[oakking1]

@Engus1 Go polish your rosary beads or do some corporal pennance.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1 ...and if done in faith, it will have merit. If done as ritual it is meaningless.

Maybe you should follow your own advise.

[Hkepfer]

@Engus1 You Sir, are most correct. Hear! Hear!

[Hkepfer]

But no woman was at the last supper.  Woman, set table, cooked food & cleaned up, but none were present for the institution of the priesthood.

The NT speaks of Deaconess -but zero mention of women priests.

Women leaders yes -but none were priests.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer How do you know. The writers of the Gospels were men and did not see women as important. Mary Magdalene was first to see Jesus risen and told to go preach it to the apostles. It was only women who were brave enough to stay at the cross. Where were the men? They ran away because they were afraid. The anti-female attitude has more to do with homosexuals running the Church than any solid theology and I am sick of it. All of the sex scandals and now at the Pope's own door.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1 It is a matter of faith, tradition & documentation.

You are correct in that women showed more courage & faith at key times, more so than men.

The most courageous woman was the BVM -Christ's mother she foretold of all the blood her son would shed and yet, in the fullness of her grace, she trusted G-D and let it be.

That there is evil in the church is nothing new -we are all sinners. But Christ is our bridegroom and reward.

To repeat there is no APOSTOLIC basis for woman priests.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer Hope he likes his red shoes. By the way, my nickname for my priest is Princess. You figure out why.

[MenechemShaul]

Miss Holms also forgot about Junia[s], Priscilla [Prisca] and Phoebe. I am all for women in Ministry as long as they are in direct obedience to the Word of God (My views of men in ministry are the same). If they twist Scripture (For example allow Faggots to Marry) than they are not true Ministers of the Gospel!

[voyager4u]

I have seen the Church of England and its leaders decline in respect by the majority of people. Lots of Brits think they are in it for the money and an easy life.

What do they stand for by the way?

[Hkepfer]

No women were invited to the last Supper, not the BVM, not St. Mary; no women were given the means to attain the office of Priest or Bishop.

What Anglicans have done is heresy!

[AnHonestChristian]

So, Mary Magdalene's personal faith somehow proves that women can be ordained? Did Mary lead the Church, ma'am? Was a woman ever ordained for the first 2,000 years of Christianity (with the exception of the deaconesses in Eastern Orthodoxy)? Let's just ignore St. Paul, shall we? Sorry, but this liberal feminism thinly disguised as apostolic Christianity really irks me.

[NativeNewYorkGuy]

@AnHonestChristian The Early Church also didn't have electricity, air conditioning, organs or even The Bible.....Lets get rid of all that too.

[viriatoist]

@AnHonestChristian Amen, frater!

[Hkepfer]

@AnHonestChristian There were deaconess but it is highly questionable if either were ordained. Most deaconess were deacon wives or something like a consecrated virgin -both of whom were consecrated but not ordained -laying of hands and particular prayers said. But in general, Sir, you are most correct.

[AnHonestChristian]

@Hkepfer You're probably right. I'll admit I'm not up on the Eastern Orthodox Church as I could be. In my denomination, The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, we have the position of deaconess, which is more like what you described and not part of ordained Holy Ministry.

[Hkepfer]

@AnHonestChristian Oh I could be wrong on so many things and oh how I hope, I am not.

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian Years ago there was no sattelite TV ,no flying planes ,common people were not allowed to own a Bible Even today some mid eastern cultures forbid education to women in case they are aware of theyrights as an unaccptable crime,punishable my moral police.Dont reduce Christianity to narrow confines which even God would like to change for a better world.Be sorry for yourself only, that u have not understood theHIGHER WORTH of LIFE only petty arguments to justify theUNJUSTIFIABLE

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana The Word of God justifies itself. God speaks and we are called to receive His whole counsel in faith. The family as the basic unit of society is not going to change because we airplanes and printed Bibles.

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian Most religions have been HIJACKED by men...It suits us to believe we are more priveleged and that sustaining a family is unimportant .Man and woman build a family ,just as men give up family to become priests so to should be the rights of a woman to give up the family to be a priest.Depriving women citing BLIND religious justifications is a well rooted and tested METHOD for centuries in almost all religions,and any change to this madness creates insecurity and fear in men.

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana Anything can be contaminated by sin, but Christ has promised His Church will prevail and His Word will not pass away. Clerical celibacy is not a command for all ministers/priests of the Gospel, so you have no case there. The man is the head of his family in a way that implies humility and service, not privilege; similarly, the Church, under the "Man from Heaven," as Paul calls Jesus, is served by men who have been properly called and ordained for the Ministry of Word and Sacrament.

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian Hey ! What God do U believe in ?U r most welcome to keep Him but women should not associate themselves with ur God who is discriminatory on the basis of Sex and does not value them as much as men..Yes ,The WORD will prevail and will not be the same as u seem fit to explain..Christ is far more beautiful,harmomious experience..& thats the Christ for everyone ... rich, poor,man, woman,child adult,healthy,sick..more than all ur Bookish theological knowledge can envisage

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana I worship the one true God. It's amazing to me you can spell "bookish" and not "your" and "you."

"Christ is far more beautiful..." According to what?What authority do you have? The authority for Christian faith and life, is the Holy Scriptures. Prattle on about your supposed egalitarian humanistic philosophy if you like, but that doesn't mean anything.

And I'm not supposed to believe what I do but you can tell women what they're supposed to believe? Typical liberal hypocrite.

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian I do believe that I have the same authority that you have!Thankyou for your compliments I'd rather be a liberal egalitarian &human than be frozen in time being not liberal not egalitarian & inhuman.There are people who with great conviction & effort choose to remain so like the learned rabbis who even Jesus did not approve of.Jesus needs you and me ..not to fear change if it is more caring kind understanding &inclusive

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana You have the same authority but you deny the truth of God's Word? Well, I'm a die-hard theological and social conservative, and I'm not "egalitarian" insofar as denying the gender roles laid down by God. Your "learned rabbis" the Pharisees didn't understand Scripture...that's where your allegation fails. Christ welcomes all...through repentance and reconciliation. He does not condone sins as liberalism does. And truth is immutable and living...it's not "frozen in time."

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian I believe that the truth is living ,Christ is living & that is why "being frozen in time"is only for the lifeless.Dear father,life means to evolve and grow.Once A poor man bought some potatoes to feedhis family of five.His wife found that a few ofthe potatoes were partly spoiled.Soshe carefully carved away the rotting portions from each of those potatoes as she could not afford to throw them away &cookd them..that is how GOD loves us.Heneeds each one of us even with ourfaults

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana Yes, Jesus is the Truth, and so is His Word. He prayed to His Father, "Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth" (John 17:17); hear the psalmist's petition: "Give me life according to your word" (Psa 119:25). Your extrabiblical parallel should show you that God forgives sin and does not act indifferently to it...according to His Word!

[AnHonestChristian]

@AnHonestChristian *parable

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian  You have interpreted even my extrabiblical parallel only the way u want to see it.It means to me that everyone has shortcomingslike the potatoesBut we still can give our best and God willaccept it most lovingly as a parent.you have agood knowledge of theology but it still lacks warmth,care that perhaps God doesnt see things the way u would believe he would see.You go the lines in ur books but fail to glimpse God Himself in ur life

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana "But we still can give our best and God willaccept it most lovingly as a parent." Nope, that's not true. God declares our righteousness in as "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6); literally in Hebrew: a used tamp-on. That's how God views the deeds of those who try to work their way to Him. I recognize God in my life through and freely share the love of Christ. That's why I bother with you. The Law will prepare your heart for the Gospel.

[AnHonestChristian]

@AnHonestChristian *through faith

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian That conclusion of yours is that of a God to Fear not the loving Lord I know .Your heart is very well prepared, like many ,for the BOOKS,the LAWS,the RITUALS and RULES . These are of no value if you cannot understand the Heart of the Lord which is more knowledgeable than all the theology.The Heart Loves unconditionally with no difference between The religious learned & the laity,man or woman. The "LOVE" u freely share is miserly & not the love of Christ

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana Hey, MrBrokenRecord, you 1.) do not know me personally and 2.) cannot justify your non-Christian liberalizing beliefs because they're not Biblical. My Lord is not the pansy liberal with the hippie love you make Him out to be. But thanks for the sermon...you'd be a good homosexual "priest."

[MrMijana]

@AnHonestChristian Jesus is not a pansy liberal but I can see & know your heart is hardened & stubborn not to look beyond books &rules .Jesus would not have chosen someone illiterate & uneducated like Peter had He follwed ur advice .Your attitude to ordaining women as priests so negative just like, I reiterate again,a hardened Islamic cleric and their understanding of women as some lesser creature to be shackled ..U are Not an honest christian but sadly , a self righteously misled person.

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana Oh please. Keep repeating the whole "you're a legalist/sexist" mantra over and over again. You continue to prove my point that you have absolutely no justification for what you believe.

[AnHonestChristian]

@MrMijana Anything can be contaminated by sin, but Christ has promised His Church will prevail and His Word will not pass away. Clerical celibacy is not a command for all ministers/priests of the Gospel, so you have no case there. The man is the head of his family in a way that implies humility and service, not privilege; similarly, the Church, under the "Man from Heaven," as Paul calls Jesus, is served by men who have been properly called and ordained for the Ministry of Word and Sacrament.

[Hkepfer]

@broadleygreen Hear, hear!

There is no apostolic authority to establish ordination for women, practicing homosexuals & or divorced individuals.

1) One cannot be christian ignore St. Paul.

2) Orthodoxy is not limited to the Orthodox but also to those of us who are lower case orthodox such as the Orthodox are lower case catholic.

3) One thing not done well of Anglicans -the confused terms.

Anglo-Catholics wanting to become orthodox vis the Catholic Church is an inspiration of G-D.

Welcome!

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer blah blah blah  Keep regurgitating the same neo-conservative, male dominated, homosexual rhetoric.

[oakking1]

@broadleygreen says who? There were deaconesses in the early church and they had leadership roles. The Catholic Church should sweep the homosexual freedom out of the church starting with the papacy. I use to be a staunch Roman Catholic until I did my own research. Seminaries are called Pink Palaces because they are so predominantly Gay. I was studying to be a priest and that is part of the reason I left. If you were not Gay, you were a persecuted minority.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1 Correct there were deaconesses -either deacon wives or something very akin to nuns. You are right -no female priest are mentioned ever in bible or (context of bible) tradition.

As far as your seminary experience, I am sorry for that -did you tell your bishop?

Could you have picked another seminary? Joined a non-tainted order?

If you know the faith, why do you expect perfection?

We are all sinners & if priests had acted well on the rules, ....we would not be discussing this shame.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer Tell my bishop are you actually serious? They are the worse offenders. I am not against homosexuality itself but dysfunctional homosexual leaders making the majority of the decisions. Why does the Pope like to wear older robes that look like dresses, furry hats, and red shoes. Give me a break. Remember 39 Popes were married including Peter. The papacy is now a joke. The Vatican has turned into another Pink Palace as many seminaries are called.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1

Why does the Pope like to wear older robes that look like dresses (that is your modern interpretation of holy vestments similar to those used in Holy Mount Temple), furry hats or hats? It is reminder of being subject to the discipline of Holy Orders –such as is the Roman collar –it is a collar that can be yanked.

Red Shoes is a reminder of the blood of the martyrs –so every time a pope dresses, where ever he goes, he is reminded of what came before him.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer Yeah you can find a symbol for everything. I just think he likes to wear the more feminine robes or vestments. I am Catholic go to mass, but am not blind to the corruption and am going to call it as I see it. I wish Hans Kung was still around. Referring to Orders and vows, how many have those been broken even in the Vatican's household. It does not bother you that a Vatican insider was bringing in boys and using them as prostitutes? I am catholic but not Roman, no more respect.

[Hkepfer]

I am extremely concerned about the corruption that has gone on.

Everything to a mass is proscribed by scripture.

I just quote the required history [or reasoning] as I was taught or have since learned.

Nope, I have never been to seminary but one of my Pastors was the Master of Novices at Gethsemane Monastery and rest assured he would not have tolerated such behavior -told to me directly.

I too pray the Church is more Catholic than Roman (as in Roman Curia legalisms and paranoia).

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer You just changed sinking ships. The politics and some theology may be different but if they sink in the end you can both call them Titanics. Many Catholics are leaving the Church including priests. What is going to be left? In tolerant anti-women and anti-gay clergy. One study showed that 60% of priests are gay.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1 There are lies, there are damn lies & then there are statistics. 

I've been involved in parish life all my 51 years -nope, no way could 60% of the priests I have known been other than good men. Actually, I've dealt mostly with very pious, sometimes ultra-conservative priests -only a few could be as study suggests.

I am not anti-woman, but when a Pope puts to paper the statement "I do not see where a Pope could get the authority to ordain women" -that is to taken seriously.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer Did you ever go to a seminary?" All of my classmates were gay except two or three and they all left. In the monastery I was in, all of the straight people left except for maybe one or two and they were depressed. Do you really think you know what you are talking about? The gays stay in and get promoted. They are ultra-conservative to hold onto their power. Of couses, you would think it is a lie because you are trying to hold onto the illusion of what the Chursh is.

[oakking1]

@Hkepfer I did that for years but it is an illusion and not the reality. The Institutional Church is a cold cruel business out protect its own self interest and not serve the people. I went to a Deacon Meeting and the Monseignor said at the meeting that every one is expendable. Nice way to start the meeting. This is the guy that works for the bishop. That is just the ice on the surface. Dig deeper and you find more crud.

[Hkepfer]

@oakking1

If there is one ship that I would want to be on, even if sinking, it would "the church".

...and not even the gates of hell will prevail against thee.....means even if church ship is sinking, it will not be sunk into hell.

The church is neither prefect nor without defect, but in its teachings it is infallible.

Your quarrel is not with me; your quarrel is what happened to you & for that, you have respect and sorrow.

[Brightstar27]

@broadleygreen That would be the High Anglican church, but do not forget us Low Anglican Evangelical churches!!!

[sparky2086]

All this came about after Tony Blair converted to the catholic faith.

What went on with his meetings with the Pope, did he get his 30 pieces of silver.

[gopman64]

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALAS.

Welcome home, one & all.