Joseph Joachim plays Brahms Hungarian Dance #1

[246trinitrotoluene]

i'm relearning the brahm's concertos now with his arrangements....

the double stops are very hard at such break neck speeds but the payoff at the end will be very worth it

[MrGer2295]

Joseph Joachim(1831-1907)

was a Hungarian violinist, conductor, composer and teacher.

Wow! Absolutely Fantastic!!! Thank you aimson for sharing.

[ROBOTNIK28]

i don't tend to like conservative Hungarian music as opposed to Franz Liszt and stuff like that but this is definitely an exception.

[cheburechka]

Why does it sound like a sad jewish song?..

[beeteep60]

is any of Joachim's recording out on any cd?

[violiner9391]

wow that is so flat it sounds like a viola

[sostenuto]

This is what this german got after firing the first guy. 8-)) ~~~

[paulostroff99]

Awesome! TY

[symfotroll]

pre-vibrato era :) if it was their best guy, who were the others I wonder?

[vstasov]

Miraculous. Thank you for fantastic archive.

[mrramba]

good but bad quali

[ipmoic]

He is 72 years old here--that's 72 years in a time of no antibiotics and only aspirin for muscle pain. Certainly past his prime.

Instructive how little vibrato he uses and even though he plays freely, his playing is structured and disciplined.

Like listening to a ghost--how enormously fascinating!

[TheMmesser]

Wonderful to here this! Joseph Joachim was the greatest violinist of the mid nineteenth century..very close friend of Brahms, consulted all along as Brahms wrote the violin concerto! He also was responsible for the re-discovery of the Beethoven Violin Concerto in 1844 when he was twelve! He was the soloist with the Leipzieg Gewandhaus, conductor? Felix Mendlessohn! Wrote a wonderful cadenza to the Beethoven still played today!..As to Huberman..look up the story on his Strad, now J Bell's!

[Ascendyourthinking]

Along with Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, and Schumann, Brahms sits on a legendary and imomortal throne, having expressed ideas through music that were not simply of an age but of a timeless quality, increasing the quality of humanity through art to greater depths. To hear Joseph Joachim live is a blessing beyond words. It's not only because he worked intimately with Brahms, in this recording I no longer hear a violin, I hear a beautiful singing voice!

[violin957]

Im in Love.....

[NiallMS]

Many thanks for posting this piece of history.

[796824]

Splendid

[eldarshus351]

Fantastic to see that even Hungarian Dances were played with no vibrato at all!!! Lesson to all excessive lovers of the vibrato today with no understanding where is needed and where not. Another lesson to the purist-authentists: no rubato doesn´t mean dry, square and boring rendering!!

[shiveringflower]

So true! Not forgetting that Joachim and Brahms were great friends,and played the Hungarian dances together many times with Brahms playing the piano.

[PDQGorby]

@eldarshus351 Did you listen to it? There is definitely vibrato there! You cannot say there is no 'vibrato'. He simply uses sparingly, as did many classical and baroque-era string players as told in most of the old treatises (Geminiani, L. Mozart, for example)

[CJbouzouki]

This is great!!!

[salvavillani]

Se pensiamo alla registrazione preistirica il Maestro è formidabile.

Grazie Maestro per questa bella musica e anche se non c'è più,un grazie lo stesso-Salvatore Villani-Firenze

[ElEsquisProductions]

this is probably the way the music is to be performed. Freedom of spirit!!!!!!!! we have to seek the heart and not the cold printed notes.

[wks1978]

Remember - this man knew Brahms personally!

[davidgee100]

Considerable emotional and spiritual content. Fabulous reference.

[jettviolin]

It is extremely interesting to hear his interpretation on his arrangement of this piece...

[PhilipLu3]

very beautiful, even with the static in the background.

[ValentinZdravko]

Epic song:D  beautiful 5/5

[pugandblizzard]

For those of you interested in tuning standards, the following book is a fine academic study:

A History of Performing Pitch: the History of "A" by Clara Marvin. Very useful, interesting and quite well organised.

[cattleman6420012000]

Absolutely wonderful.

[emattei44]

thanks , many many for the great pleasure in listening a"dirty" records, !!! please find out similars records... compliments

[Culteri]

very beautyful

[gimaru1]

thanks for posting such a historic recording..

[BoratBrother]

It's called aristic liberty..interesting interpretation...you hate it to start with but then it grows on you and how..you appreciate it more and more like a vintage wine...brilliant musicianship..he was a good friend of Brahms...thanks for such a rare clip...

[mrausar]

This is wonderful? Just out of curiosity why is this recording almost a tone down..almost F minor instead of G minor.

[AngelicaTross]

The international standard pitch A=440 Hz is from 1939.

[9031879134]

Also remember, early recording devices were turned by hand or with primitive mechanisms (note the gurgles and shifts of pitch). While this could be digitally fixed, why bother, you will never get the same sound as being in the room. How amazing it would be to listen to all the masters who lived long ago. Tartini, Paganini, Joachim, Kreisler, Auer...

[jacksgirl365]

he is my grate grate grate grate grate grandfather it's true

[hildagrim]

great

[ZeroGhostDog]

This is a very nice recording. Very peaceful.

[ocramizz]

Thanks for this moment of the musical history! If only we think this man in his life worked "tête a tête" not only with Brahms, but also with Mendelssohn, Liszt, Clara Schumann, Wieniawski... And always with very intense relationships. So we're really hearing a performance that includes a piece of musical history!

[AngelicaTross]

Does anyone have the "sheet music" of this transcription?

[carlotajoaquinaporra]

i have it for piano

[thementalfiddler]

no but i have the violin and piano accompaniament parts of my own transcription

[1ataloss1]

oh, never mind--dyslexic moment--its "cavatina"

anyway, great music!!

[mobytoss]

Is that the guitar piece used in the film The Deerhunter?

[1ataloss1]

thats what i heard but idrk

[1ataloss1]

theres a beautiful piece by Joseph Joachim Raff called "Catavina" but i cant find it anywhere on the internet!! does anyone know about it??

[greekyboy123]

Not sure about the net, but there is a piece called 'Cavatine' by Raff on 'Romantic Piano Favourites Vol 6' on the Naxos label.

[greekyboy123]

Actually - ignore my previous posting - if you haven't done so already, search for 'Raff Cavatina' here and you will find various postings.

[ProfessaBojangles1]

That's one gangsta dude.

[lastnaturemistake]

Great to hear a brahms' friend plays his work.

Brahms had a strong belief in Joachim so all the tempos and nuances we are listening to is a certain composer approved material!

and what a touch he had with right hand on arc..wow..nice sound.

too bad old recording detuned his bass notes.

a priceless recording.

[CylonAndrew]

Wow, it's nice hearing something from the turn-of-the century (1900). Soo much has changed over the past 100 years, has an excelent charm that seems to be lost in time, just the way I am interpreting the music. 21/22! (MY RATING SYSTEM!XD)

[nbarry45]

Joachim was the close friend and virtuoso for whom Brahms wrote the violin concerto and the double concerto. Accordingly, think of this as coming closest to what Brahms himself envisioned for this work.

[xx1804]

that my name:D:D nice!!!

[GerdLinden]

About Joachim:( his life, CDs etc. in german) fuer-die-ohren . at / Joseph-Joachim-CD . s h t m l

[GerdLinden]

Great interpretation

[MarlowStardust]

Well in Germany, where I'm from, a newspaper made an edition of some famous violinists, among them Bronislav Huberman, and on his cd there can be found this piece.

No you r not ignorant, one cannot now every little thing about this large thematic.

(sry for my english).

Regards

MarlowStardust

[MarlowStardust]

Sorry aimson, that info about beeing the first to have recorded is not that right, because there exists a recording of the Moment Musicaux by Schuman played by Bronislav Huberman in 1899.

But you said he is considered to be...., so it is not your fault.

Regards

MarlowStardust

[aimson]

Do you have a link or any info proving this? I just did a google search of Bronislaw Huberman and there is no mention of anything recorded in 1899. Honestly, I've never even heard of the name, which shows some of my own ignorance.

[paulostroff99]

@aimson -You don't search well nor far.Right here on you tube is Bronislaw Huberman playing the Tchaikovsky violin concerto. Leopold Auer a pre Heifetz violin virtuoso is also represented here on you tube.

[wks1978]

@paulostroff99 Neither of those were born before Joachim. Joachim (Born 1831) is the oldest born violinst on record, possibly the first recorded, unless you can provide conclusive proof that recordings of the violin were made before 1903.

[paulostroff99]

@aimson -He may well have been the greatest violinist ever!

[secretchromaticart]

@aimson Joachim was not the first violinist to record, but he was the first "major" violinist to have recorded as you correctly stated in 1903.

[danielsilva1977]

@secretchromaticart Pablo de Sarasate also made a recording in 1903

[roadwarrior1981]

@aimson You never heard of the Huberman strad bro?

[foxparkmusic]

@aimson You may not have of Huberman, but you have almost definitely heard his violin--it is currently owned by Joshua Bell.

[SimonS7r]

@aimson: hiermit versuchen: /watch?v=PMhWR9RgKjs

[sobie99]

hmmm, interesting, Huberman was just 17 when recording this. Though a discography states 1900 as recording date (could be release date) on Berliner records. But, here a recording of Nocturne in E flat (Chopin- arr Sarasate) is mentioned as his first one. Now... wouldn't we wanna hear that !! :p

[aimson]

I might agree with you and disagree with a personal friend of Brahms IF you were really the personal friend of Brahms and Joachim was some kid on the internet. Just a thought. I think you might have rephrased your comment to be a bit less presumptuous, even though I mostly agree.

[aimson]

Haha, George Carlin fan too? You missed the part about opinions being like assholes, everybody's got them and they all stink. At least on the internet...

[GODSFISTS]

lol

[paulostroff99]

@McLellandPianoStudio -Have you never heard of a gluewein.It is a hot red wine drink made to deal with colds. Very much used in Germany.

[AmateurViolinist]

Wow! I had heard of Joachim, but never heard him play. It's really interesting to hear something played a century ago.

[funfunfuntw01]

it's really an interesting version. The peace is so slow, quite different from today's play. Perhaps it is the genuine style Brahms design for. However, really thanks.

[paulostroff99]

Wonderful! Bravo!  TY.

[singsinsing]

this is alot better than the solo piano version, very beautiful. I like the cziffratranscription very much of this piece also

[akfakmail]

merci beaucoup...

[Sviolinist]

is that Brahms at the piano? I think nobody is sure... but I think it must be.

[davidj1011]

Brahms was dead at that time

[sigiiss]

va fan går filmen ut på en jävla gubbe med fiol som ska köra upp den i rövhålet

[holle1987]

Beautiful!!!

[abuhm]

AMAZING!

super originality..

[seasaid]

Fascinating. I love it. I'm a novice when it comes to classical music, but Brahms's Violin Concerto is what drew me in, so I have been very curious about Joachim.

Again, a novice, so I don't know how to properly describe what I'm hearing, but it seems to me that there's something amazing about his timing in particular...

[philomelodia]

I can't get over the tempo of this rendition. It's so different from what I'm used to. Nowadays, it's played almost frantically by comparison. This almost sounds too slow though there is a certain something that gives it an enormous appeal. Perhaps, it is that this man was playing a piece written in his life time by a man he knew well and not one written in the past by a stranger known only by music and reputation..

[GeorgeEnescu]

Well, the recording is a little pitched down, which also decreases the speed a bit. But I agree, today's musicians focus much more on speed and technique rather than on the music itself. In my opinion, giving music to people is much better than just "showing-off". But even today's public is carefully following violinists for technical "stunts", which is a sign of how different our times are, in comparision to maybe 70-100 years ago.

[robotnik77]

"[Joachim] is also considered to be the first violinist to have recorded (1903)."

Sarasate made some cylinder recordings in 1899.

[mehdigoudarzi]

Extraordinary :)

[litereeder]

This is so wonderful. Delicious tone and insane rhythms.

[paulostroff99]

Remarkable! TY

[arthurkrieck]

A-440 was not adopted as the "standard" until 1920. Before that it was around 435hg.

[lovesGenet]

Amazing to hear this type of playing so diff from the vibrato adn portamento We al think r old fashioned.I must find Auer's playing.Then HeifetzElman Milsteinpushed this russian school out into prominence. Sarasate andYsaye left rec .Must hear!

[philomelodia]

I think you can find both on youtube. I know you can find Sarasate. His style sounds very different than Joachim's though. Much more precise and less ornamented. Perhaps, it's more accurate to say that his ornamentation is just different.

[znanto]

If only I liked Brahms...

[violin523]

Do you the year this was recorded? Could it be Brahms on the piano?

[gbarnardoh]

No. Brahms died in 1897.

[martin12tut]

thanks a lot!! so great to listen to this!!

i didnt know that there is a recording. this is really a step in old times. funny ornamentation. sounds sometimes like a yiddish way of playing. strange glissandi. thanks!

[philomelodia]

Not surprising his style would have a Yiddish flavor. He was born a Jew, you know. He also studied with Mendelsohn who was another converted Jew. I'm really excited about hearing this. It reminds me of noone more than Jascha Heifetz. I love the glisandi. Almost makes the violin sound human. Wish more modern players did this. Of ocurse, with the music written these days, they don't relaly have cause to truly make their instrument sing like that.

[martin12tut]

i thought the same. i have recordings from jewish violinists played in 1910 to 1925. similar attitude. nice. not much vibrato with many glissandi. sounds far a bit like synagogal singing. and this strange tempo changings...

[martin12tut]

ahh, now i saw that i wrote this before...sorry :)

[Ave88]

Amazig to be able to hear this sound. coming from another time... The quality is poor, but what i still cannot figure ow big an heritage this is for mankind.. That sound was produced by a guy born in 1830... same year

[20fragra07]

Thank you for posting this. I had heard it on the radio a couple of times, and it's good to find it here!

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Did you guys know there's a recording of Leopold Auer playing this? It's interesting to listen to the lineage: Joachim was Auer's Teacher. and Auer was Heifetz's teacher. They all have recordings of this piece. The best by far is Heifetz, then Joachim, then Auer.

[ztefieh]

Is there a recording of Heifetz or Auer playing this on YouTube?

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

No unfortunately

[pochetta1]

there is, since two weeks ago, just look at my page

[Deutschlieber]

My God. THIS is what all of our technology and gadgetry should be about. THANKS!

[osverol]

¡Magnífico que nos hicieras escuchar al gran Joachim! -- Wonderful post!

[maxinDetroit]

great post -thank you

[hemplar]

agree

[Jextxadore]

Is it just me or is his G string tuned down to F?

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

no, it sounds like f# but i don't know whether he did it himself or if it was the recording

[Jextxadore]

It's the gut strings he used; they sound different. I tried playing along with him on the first few bars with a properly tuned violin, steel strings, and the notes match perfectly.

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Lol what are you talking about? That's nonsense, just because he's using gut strings doesn't mean that the pitch is going to be any different, afterall, Sarasate's recordings were up to pitch. It was probably just the recording technology or Joachim's own choice, afterall the Bach recording is a quartertone flate

[Jextxadore]

No, I mean the gut strings sound different and sometimes this causes a confusion over the notes - also depends on what he used to record

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

*flat

[HadeanAgent]

wow, what an interpretation. Great stuff! :D

[aaabbbccc5]

Only TWO Ungarian Dances are aktionliy from Brahms...everybody äls not! ...yeah biatch...but im anyway a big brahms fan

[davidapowell]

This is absoutely amazing... what a revelation to finally hear Joachim!

[apollodionysus7]

how good it is to hear this recording; his playing belies his age

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

If on google you search "joseph joachim recording" and click on the first result it pulls up a very interesting article. Towards the end of the article it discusses the difference between modern day interpretation and 19th century interpretation and the significance of Joachim's recordings.

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

I still can't get over how great his portamento is

[scottbos68]

i cant tell you how wonderful it is to finally hear the man who influenced and was involved with the violin works of brahms, and schumann and basically single handedly revived the beethoven concerto, i try to imagine what the violin repertiore would have been like without him, not to mention the hungarian violin concerto he wrote is wonderful

[xdyingxwithoutx]

loveee this song =)

[Vampiresucksblood]

this is a wonderful melody love it !

[oldjarhead]

They say he didn't use much vibrato if any. I think this recording shows that.

[kopp1981]

This a masterful rendering of the piece. The phrasing is so perfect for the style, and shows the freedom that Brahms must have expected with his rhythms. What a wonderful violinist. (Of course the technique isn't as good as Gil Shaham or Heifetz. Get over it.)

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

How do you know his technique isn't as good? After all, he was the first to premier the Brahms violin concerto - and without complaint. It's hard to tell from the few recordings he made how good his technique is, especially since he was about 73 when he made this recording

[jimmy90292]

that is a great comment thank you

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

(continued) I can only imagine how he played in his youth! As for Sarasate, that may be why you guys think his technique is a little lacking, these guys were so old when they made these recordings that they obviously won't play as well as they did when they were younger. I can only imagine how Paganini must've sounded

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Man, I can't stop listening to this. Despite the fact that there's barely any vibrato if any, and despite the crappy 1904 sound quality, his playing is so intense and fiery. His portamento sounds greater than even that of Kreisler or Heifetz. What's even more amazing is that this recording was made when he was 73!.

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Is the original Hungarian Dance no.1 in f# minor? Joachim plays this in f# minor, i'm not sure if it's the recording or he actually tuned his violin down.

[arielpesach]

Your ears are completely right, but todays "A" is 442-443 and this is the reason. About thirty years ago it was 440 and the year of 1900 even less. During these hundred years it makes it a small second interval (I'm not sure how to put in English), thus f# instead of todays g-minor. I hope, my explanation is clear.

And I hope, the "A" now will stay like it is!

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Are you sure about that? I know in the baroque/classical era they tuned to A-415 but if you listen to Sarasate's Gypsy Airs (which was recorded along with Joachim's hungarian dance) it is in c minor, and the notes are up to today's tuning, if not then very close to it.

[arielpesach]

AbsoluteZ3R0, I can't find any other explanation.

The transcription made by Joachim himself is in g-minor.

But, sometimes, I wonder what they do with the old recordings, while transferring them to CD. Yesterday I've heard Fritz Kreisler playing the Beethoven concerto with Sir John Barbirolli from 1935. Wonderful, and it was todays D major, but it should be in a lower D than today at least.

One thing is absolutely sure, though.

What a great musician Joseph Joachim was!

[tiredarms]

A440 wasn't adopted as a standard until 1955. Before that, the A was whatever people felt it should be at the time... and you can imagine that it would be different in different parts of the world with no telephones, recordings, or anything to bridge the distance between places. Which is why today's "historically informed" practice of making A415 standard for Baroque performances is a little absurd. There may have very well been performances back then where the A was tuned closer to 440.

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

If that's tre then how come most recordings from the early 20th century are relatively at A-440 if not give or take a couple hertz? Where did you learn that? Was it in an article of some sort? Because if so I want to read it

[tiredarms]

The International Organization for Standardization.

The 'A440' article on Wikipedia has a little more detail.

[gvvt]

HIP is in part based on such mechanical evidence as they can find - old organ pipes, etc.

[cattleman6420012000]

My late father who died aged 90 in 2002, told me that his great great grandfather actually went and heard Paganini in Dublin Ireland. Apparently he was mistified that Paganini didn't " sound like a normal fiddler". Those were his words. Of course he was amazed at Paganini.

[pppsssssssss]

cattleman, your grandfather's great grandfather was a lucky man...

[cattleman6420012000]

He certainly was extremely lucky to have heard Paganini, even though concerts would have been so different in those days.I remember my late father telling me what he had been told about it.

[shiveringflower]

And yet Joachim was regarded in his time as being the best violinist the world had seen-yes,even better than Paganini. Paginini,it should be remembered actively encouraged the'cult of personality' surrounding him ,wheras Joachim was interested only in being a servant  of the music.

[dostc]

Thank you very much. Actually Sarasate himself plays much worse than most of the modern soloists in intonation and clearity. But Joachim brought tears to my eyes in this piece :)

[aimson]

You have to remember that things were different back then. It didn't matter so much to make mistakes or play notes out of tune. The fact is that Sarasate was one of the greatest violinists of the 19th century, regardless of how many mistakes he made. But you are right, his technique could use a little work... :)

[dostc]

As a composer, yes he is one of the greatest, but as a violinist, as you also see, not so good :) I expected something much better than Ysaye or Joachim or Perlman or Heifetz. I hope that Paganini is not like this :)

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Yeah, even in this crappy recording it still sounds great lol. If Joachim had been born more recently I'm sure he would've rivaled Heifetz and the other great virtuosos of the 20th century.

[cattleman6420012000]

Thanks so much for letting us hear this.

[aimson]

You're very welcome. Thanks for enjoying it! I think more people need to be exposed to more music, especially the older generation of violinists. I only wish I had more video to share (I do, but can't figure out a way to rip it!)

[scottbos68]

smile

[mimfri]

Wow thanks. I also have wondered what Joachim sounded like. Didn't Brahms have a close relationship with him- with some ups and downs?

[aimson]

Yeah, Brahms was considered one of Joachim's colleagues, along with Max Bruch and Franz Liszt and Robert Schumann. I'm not sure he had many downs with Brahms but I do know he and Liszt had some pretty hot arguments later in Joachim's life.

[mimfri]

Joachim was angry with Brahms. The Double Concerto was an effort at appeasement on Brahms' part. The funny part was that it gave much more prominence to the cello than to the violin. Thanks again for posting this rare audio!

[sofly09]

Brahms definetely had a close relationship with Joachim. His violin Concerto is dedicated to Joachim after all...and it's widely noted that Brahms' original violin concerto was cut down by joachim who insisted on making changes (which brahms listended and followed)