Thank you! I'm still to this day fighting these idiots on the autism part! I should know that vaccines don't cause autism! Every single male in my family has Asperger Syndrome! Even my Grandfather before vaccinations were common!
@kalimist917 According to you, humans never came down with disease before the 20th century. Do you see the stupidity here? Whatever, have fun trying to cure cancer with lettuce.
@buckaroopopcorn How did I give an argument for it? There is all the difference in the world between saying people SHOULD do something and saying we need to FORCE them to do it. I am continually amazed at all of the people who don't understand this!
@buckaroopopcorn There is NO serious debate going on about this. The only claims that there are come from lying anti-vaccers who are desperate to try to make themselves out to be some kind of martyr class. When pressed, the ONLY example they come up with is vaccination requirements for schools--but PRIVATE schools require vaccinations as well, as do day cares, day camps, and other places that are concerned about the safety of the children--because they KNOW they will be safer.
@buckaroopopcorn No, the debate is because of idiots out there saying that vaccines cause autism and mental retardation and all sorts of other bullshit. They're so successful that there are places in the US, the UK, Australia, and other countries where they've gotten such a hold that the community has lost herd immunity, and there's a resurgence of measles, pertussis, and other diseases resulting in children DYING when they don't have to.
@buckaroopopcorn "Scientists say one thing is good for you one year then the next it isn't."
No, the news media might jump all over the science and misreport it, but more often than not when you look at the REAL science that's not what it's doing.
"They say they can predict what the weather will be like in 400 years"
Who says that? [citation needed]
Can you cite ANY peer-reviewed scientific paper claiming that correlation is evidence?
@buckaroopopcorn I've watched the video once and he never said anyone should be forced to get a vaccine... You clearly missed the purpose of this video.
Ergo, you are an ignorant moron and you should get in line with your other anti-vaccers.
@TheKainMan I did miss the purpose. I admit it. I found this video in a reddit post that was arguing for mandatory vaccinations and got confused. My apologies shanedk.
Great video shanedk, don't forget that with these idiots talking about becoming infected while vaccinated, with a vaccination of a virus it may only be one or two strains in the vaccination itself (most prelevant). An antigenic shift can occur which can be the same virus, just a different mutated strand which nobody is immune to which can also cause these false allocations of the immune becoming sick with the 'same' virus as they were vaccinated against.
In short.... your code sucks dick, bro. Human beings survive viruses, we have for hundreds of thousands of years. Is it an inconvenience to suffer viruses? Yes. But does that give people the right to force vaccinations on others, or try to guilt trip them for not being part of the herd? Not at all. This is a question of morality at the core of it. Your logic is misleading, and your attempt at science is, in my opinion, dishonest (perhaps purposefully).
As for polio, the 1% who typically developed paralysis were wealthy whites and their children. By vaccinating the rest of the population, and losing some people who may have never come in contact with the disease in the first place, you can control how the virus moves. The poor and immunodeficient take the pain to protect the top tier of society. That's what mass vaccination is. Does it work? Sure, why wouldn't it? Is it moral? No, it is not.
@bweazel "As for polio, the 1% who typically developed paralysis were wealthy whites and their children" yes, they were also shapeshifting reptillians, so they were more vulnerable to the virus.....
The reason this video is so dumb, is that his computer model assumes that without vaccinations, there would be 100% mortality every single time it is run. History shows otherwise. 80-90% of people that contracted polio showed no symptoms, built up their own immunity, and after a period of time, were not contagious anymore. Mass vacation "works", but it comes at the cost of people whose stories are swept under the rug and considered losses for the greater good.
@shanedk Oh? So what's this then? 2:44 "The disease has now killed off everybody" Indeed it has, my friend, indeed it has. I'm willing to bet if you ran that same input 5000 times, you would have 100% mortality each time.
Your code is a sham and does not relate to real world scenarios at all. It doesn't account for natural immunity, already existing antibodies, genetics, and a number of other factors.
@shanedk There's no such thing as getting a virus and your body fighting it off and making antibodies? No such thing? And I need to learn how the immune system works?
@shanedk So are those the ones you are trying to tell me that have a 100% mortality rate? Sorry, man. Not true. And the facts don't side with you at all. Some people are naturally immune to some diseases. There are now people in Africa that are carriers of the AIDS virus, but are not affected by it at all. Likewise, with smallpox, there are carriers or naturally immune people.
@bweazel BULLSHIT AGAIN. I've already given you references. You're just a FUCKING LIAR. And you don't CARE whom your lies KILL. And you DARE lecture ME on morality???
@shanedk That is not only ONE opportunity. That node has the possibility of running that code up to nine times, and all nodes will continue to run their loop until all nodes are either dead or vaccinated (even though according to you, 90% of those vaccinated will die)
And you guys accuse us of pseudo-science. Get real, you are purposefully programming data to reach your preconceived goal of how things should be. You model assumes non-vaccinated people die 100% of the time, they don't.
@bweazel "That is not only ONE opportunity. That node has the possibility of running that code up to nine times"
ONLY if it has 9 neighbors: once per neighbor. Ones on the edge only get 5, 3 on the corners.
"and all nodes will continue to run their loop until all nodes are either dead or vaccinated"
BULLSHIT. A COMPLETE LIE to anyone who sees it. If you were to click on a node, and that node by chance didn't infect any of its neighbors, THE SIMULATION STOPS.
@shanedk Also looks as though you are adding the deceased into your calculations too, not intentionally, but just by the way your model is set up. The first person gets sick by the click, the loop runs 9 times with each run having the chance to infect one of the 9, after one gets infected, it starts its own loop, but this time is limited to only 8 people, with math used for 9. How exactly did you expect your model not to stop? Haha. Again, this has no real world merit at all. Zero.
@bweazel "Also looks as though you are adding the deceased into your calculations too"
BULLSHIT AGAIN. A node gets ONE AND ONLY ONE chance to infect each of its neighbors AND THEN DIES. There is NO MORE PARTICIPATION IN THE SIMULATION AFTER THAT.
"but this time is limited to only 8 people, with math used for 9"
There is NO "math used for 9" in ANY sense here. You're just making excuses, and you do NOT know what you're talking about. IDIOT.
@shanedk Your model is a play on logarithmic math, and a very small sliver of the math that actually goes into real world immunology. If your logic held true, no one would be alive today, because we would have never been able to survive any viruses. Your model insinuates that without vaccinations, the human body cannot defend itself and would become extinct with any single virus.
I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just think this is too oversimplified to really support your case.
@bweazel Bullshit AGAIN! Are you saying that no diseases have ever wiped out a population? Are you saying that diseases don't mutate, that new diseases (such as HIV) never come about?
And are you saying, like the idiot creationists, that all of this just appeared as it is one day, instead of slowly evolving in an evolutionary arms race?
@shanedk Bullshit? Show me a disease in the history of this planet that had a 100% population for a large group of humans. Go ahead, I'll wait. Remember, 100%. Ok? Go.
@shanedk Name and population of these towns? If we're talking about a town of 20 or so, ya, I could believe that, but if we're talking thousands of families, no sorry, we are an adaptable species. Also, the black plague is not a virus, so it really doesn't require being vaccinated. It was a bacteria which could be handled with antibiotics. You just love pulling shit out of your ass don't you? Anything to defend your shitty model, eh?
@shanedk5:08. Sounds more like you than me during this conversation. Perhaps you let your preconceived notions of the opposition blind you from rationally debating my argument. 6:47. This sums up your model perfectly, funny you would use it to describe your opponents.
@bweazel And if you want an example of a disease wiping out an entire mammalian species, see "Historical Mammal Extinction on Christmas Island (Indian Ocean) Correlates with Introduced Infectious Disease" PLoS ONE 3(11):e3602.
@shanedk I'm not interested in localized events. We mingle in this country. We do not usually stay one place our entire lives, and the ones that don't are exposed to the ones that do. Again, your model sucks and has no real world merit.
@shanedk .... all sorts of species are always going extinct you alarmist. Care to point me towards the last homo sapien extinction to happen on this planet? I'm asking you to link your model to real world events here. The human species, as it is today, is not separated from the entire world on some lone island. We interact with this entire world and each other very much. So again, for the third time now, your model has no real world merit and should not be taken seriously.
Yeah, I may be considered socialist (only in the fact that there should be a saftey net for people who would otherwise be abused by corporate/government greed or general injustice) but I kno for a fact vaccines are-for lak of a better word-a godsend. They're among the pinnacles of medical science and proof of how far we came. It baffles me why ant-vaccers wanna rock the boat.
@bweazel that's nice dear. i'm not going to read the sign you're holding on the street corner and i'm not going to buy a pencil out of your cup. now move along.
@BillKiernan Just know this, mass vaccinations are controlled epidemics. If you are willing to take that risk, by all means, have at it. You may lose your child, if you're ok with putting a weakened (possibly) virus into your body, cool, go for it, but don't pass judgement on people who would rather take their chances with nature.
It has lots to do with money, and lots to do with control. You seem to be naive about how your taxes are spent. The price you pay is not what it cost.
@bweazel i'll pass judgment on you for being scientifically illiterate, stupid, and spreading disinformation that puts everyone at risk. "controlled epidemics?" idiot.
Fuck all the vaccines. Im not injecting myself with no shit. Fuck all the pharmaceutical companies. Im nobody's guinea pig. Most people die from cancer these days and not from viruses unless they are in vulnerable health groups, old people and children. Drugs do one good thing and cause 5 bad things. Side-effects. Drugs can cause cancer. Do the right thing, keep injecting yourself with mercury and other harmful stuff you will never find out what they are. Help drug producers become rich.
@shanedk Maybe yes, maybe no. But thing is we dont know what kind of other chemicals and possibly dioxins are contained in the vaccines apart from the "switched-off" virus and MERCURY.
@optimumperformance No such cases have been reported to the CDC. "I personally know one person" is called an "anecdote." Can you post ANY verifiable information that this has happened? Why haven't you reported it to the CDC?
@shanedk The old "i know a guy." i've been arguing with a totally insane anti vac/alex jones fan on an expat message board recently (i live in peru). for EVERY conspiracy he spews about, fluoride, vaccines, etc, he "knows someone" or "knows a few people" who have their teeth rotting out from fluoride, or who got a disease from a vaccine. just like creationists, they have no problem outright lying to push their agenda.
@Virgil0211 nope, there's a huge movement of conspiratards that dish out disinformation about how fluoride in the water is poison and it makes you brain dead and/or rots out your teeth and is part of the Illuminati's plan to control us all. look into it, or don't, your faith in humanity will be reduced, no doubt.
@BillKiernan Please tell me that Doctor Strangelove was just parodying such conspiratard nonsense and didn't actually inspire it. Right? These people can't be so dense that they would base something like this on an old mov... No, wait. They are. Shit...
Question- What is the percentage of people who can't take vaccinations. This includes very young infants, people who are allergic to them, and people with AIDS.
Seems that socialism is such a dirty word in Amerika, that not only the anti-vaccination nuts blame socialism for vaccines, but now the anti-anti-vaccination side is blaming 'extremist' socialism as well!!!
If you start with such a statement, it showes you're willing to say anything to prove your point, so why should I trust you more than them.
Good thing I don't have to depend on youtube to know that vaccines are safe. Because if I did, this video would have given me the wrong message
@Belgianmeth I only said that the current incarnation of anti-vaccination grew out of the socialist movement--because it DID, specifically the "green our vaccines" CAM/naturopatic part of it.
And I only mentioned that because a lot of people were blaming libertarians for it!
I think this is a case that demonstrates the necessity of collective or government action for SOME, not all, problems. The approach from the government side is easy, regulate that all persons of such an age receive appropriate vaccinations.
(continued) I doubt a for-profit model could effectively vaccinate a population. Consumers are loath to pay for the benefit of their neighbors. And since it only works if a high percentage buy the vaccine, that is a significant marketing problem since no benefit is received unless your neighbor buys it too. Also there is the question of corruption since sick people are more profitable than healthy.
You wouldn't have liked my econ class. My professor used "the positive externality" of state mandated polio vaccines to school children as an argument for state interventionism.
@vspqbd They were formed in the 1940s to cure polio. You may have heard of one of their members, a Dr. Jonas Salk? After polio was conquered they expanded to work on other birth defects.
@loveofphysics Then you're a FUCKING LIAR. Non-profit organizations are very much a part of the free market and an essential part of free market health care, AS I SAID IN MY VIDEO, YOU LIAR!
Besides, all "non-profit" means is that the people running the organization don't get dividends. The organization STILL has to worry about the money coming in being greater than the money they spend; if it's not, they go away.
@shanedk " Non-profit organizations are very much a part of the free market and an essential part of free market health care" You have a funny definition of "Free Market". Non-profits do not exchange their goods or services at the market rate set by the intersection of supply and demand curves, so they are not part of the free market. Just because something is private, non-gov't, does not mean it is part of the free market, a little false dichotomy on your part???
@shanedk A homeless shelter giving away a sandwich that the market values at ~$5 to a homeless person for free, is not exchanging it at the market rate. You do have some good things to say, but when you run to the libertarian dogmatist camp, you are just insane.
@loveofphysics Are you REALLY that dense??? Do you think that sandwich just got created out of thin air? Do you think that just because the charity is giving it away for free means that they didn't have to consume any resources in the economy?
Do you REALLY not realize that this sandwich WAS paid for at the market rate--BY DONORS???
@shanedk Every product goes through many exchanges of goods or services between raw materials and end user. To conclude that since one (or some) of those exchanges took place on the free market that every exchange occurred on the free market, is a fallacy.
However, after viewing, watch?v=iXUSliphRmg I see that you are willing to be intellectually dishonest just to win a debate, so there is no point in talking to you anymore. Goodbye.
@loveofphysics If I buy a sandwich and give it to one of my kids to eat, no one would deny that is the product of a free market. If I buy the sandwich and give it to a homeless guy outside, there's no difference. So why would it all of a sudden be different if I have an agent (the charity) do it for me?
And if you'd follow the ACTUAL exchange between me and AndroidPolitician, you'll see it is clearly HE who is being dishonest. But your dogma will NEVER allow you to consider that.
@shanedk "Tough; it has. MANY times." Citation please for a for-profit model that has effectively brought a population from 0% vaccinated to herd immunity. I doubt you'll find it because all the major nations use regulation to vaccinate the population. Also, google scholar "Can Influenza Epidemics Be Prevented by Voluntary Vaccination?", you'll see that you are wrong theoretically as well as empirically.
@loveofphysics There's your bullshit "for-profit" again. YOU are the one saying we need GOVERNMENT to do this. By making the only two choices government and for-profit, you are committing a False Dichotomy--the resort of the dogmatist.
The March of Dimes is an EXCELLENT example of a PRIVATE FREE-MARKET ORGANIZATION that effectively went from no vaccine even EXISTING to herd immunity. You need to fucking DEAL.
@shanedk I concede that I did ignore the possibilities of private non-profits providing vaccines, and they could work because they work well for issues that affect the interest of more than one person unlike for-profits, but that does not change the point that governments can effectively vaccinate a population and that for-profits can't.
@loveofphysics If I were to choose btwn gov't and non-profit here, I prefer gov't since it can more easily operate on a large scale and can possibly force action on the part of those who oppose, such as vaccine denialists easier than private non-profits could. But of course, if a private non-profit happens to do it, then good, but the problem is you have no guarantee that a non-profit will step in if the societal need is dire, such as herd immunity.
@shanedk "Total bullshit. Go take an Econ 101 class."
Wrong again. The basis of capitalism is selfishness on the part of the business and consumer. Assuming a 0% vaccinated population, a consumer would find no reason to spend $ on a vaccine if he receives no benefit unless his neighbor buys it, too. Also, a consumer looks for the best value for his $, and in this situation the best value per $ is the unvacinated person who is surrounded by vaccinated people, thus incentive to NOT get vaccinated
@shanedk "The basis of capitalism is selfishness on the part of the business and consumer." This is not character assassination because I was not attacking any single capitalist, I was attacking the system, and it is not libel because it is true. How can a self-proclaimed libertarian ignore the principle of "Rational Self-interest", or forget the title of Ayn Rand's collection of essays,"The Virtue of Selfishness".
@loveofphysics "This is not character assassination because I was not attacking any single capitalist"
You attacked ALL capitalists, which makes it bigotry as well. And it is NOT true in anything other than the Randian idea of "selfishness," which is clearly NOT what you meant.
@shanedk "Besides, the pharmaceutical companies who sold the polio vaccine didn't make a profit???" Perhaps, but it is not their cash cow. The profit is made in drugs that patients have to take over and over again, such as psychiatric meds, not one time doses like vaccines. I couldn't find a citation other than Penn&Teller's Bullshit episode on vaccines gives the figure that less than 2% of prescription drug sales are vaccines.
@shanedk "How did you come to THAT insane conclusion?"
It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people, just look at the weight loss industry. Seriously, hospitals make much more $ for someone who is living in an Iron Lung than someone who never goes to the hospital because he or she is healthy.
@loveofphysics "It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people"
No, it isn't obvious, because it's NOT TRUE. They make FAR more money with PREVENTATIVE care. Because EVERYONE needs preventative care; only sick people need sick treatment, and the expenses with those people are HUGE.
Your having to use the example of iron lungs--which are hardly used anymore--is a fucking JOKE.
@loveofphysics "It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people"
No, it isn't obvious, because it's NOT TRUE. They make FAR more money with PREVENTATIVE care.
Pharmaco's can make even more money with maintaining sick people.
It took an awful long time before medical world accepted helicobacter pylori's existence. I've often wondered if the profitable life-long treatment of stomach ulcers with antacids played a role ;-)
@shanedk "Your having to use the example of iron lungs--which are hardly used anymore--is a fucking JOKE." I also used the example of the weight loss industry, which is a big scam, and makes money off of sick (out-of-shape) people, and is going on today.
@shanedk It is clear that you are COMPLETELY WRONG on this account. If you would go beyond Econ 101 and read some Amartya Sen, you would see that problems that affect the whole society, like in this case vaccination and herd immunity, cannot be adequately addressed by markets. Market may be powerful, but they are limited to problems that affect a single consumer. Markets have a myopic view, which governments do not necessarily share. Libertarian ideas in practice cannot vaccinate a population.
@ThePuppyTurtle Whether or not every infection is fatal does not change the fact that every infection is an infection. The analysis here equally applies to fatal and non-fatal diseases.
If you have the math and the science (not to mention a cool simulation) to back you up, then you don't have to be a dick by shouting the opposing point of view in a stupid voice.
9:12 Praise the Lord that one green dot survived! Out of ALL those dots who perished, only that one dot survived! Probably a child dot, too. Clearly God had a very important purpose for saving that special young dot, and you would be a fool to deny it.
...
Okay, it's not an anti-creationist video so I ought not poke fun at religion, but it did remind me of one since creationists and anti-vaccers use such similar methods of arguing.
the thing is, if we didn't use the medications and technology that the "evil capitalists" make, we'd be living in grass huts and dying of malaria at 30.
@shanedk The thing I don't get with these people, is did they pay attention in grade 9 science class? They're all afraid of "chemicals", what they don't realize is that water and "sodium chloride" are "chemicals". I trust peer reviewed scientific solutions made by intelligent people over some hippie with a magic berry.
@shanedk It's just... there's just this desire to go against the norm and be non conformist. If I put square tires on my car, I'm not a "non conformist", I'm being a retard. Same thing with vaccines. It's against the "big pharma" and the "evil corporations", and not getting vaccines to be a non conformist is just as stupid as square tires.
I am shocked that all of you actually think the argument is anti vaccine...and not what it REALLY is...anti mercury preservatives IN vaccines, which never used to be there! Mass production of food and medicine has brought with it harmful preservatives that our bodies are not meant to ingest. THAT is the argument.
@dminortheory First of all, NO mercury has been in children's vaccines in something like 10 years. Second, it has NEVER EVER EVER been shown that the amount of mercury in those vaccines was harmful.
@shanedk You are SO wrong about that. There is absolutely mercury in children's vaccines. Hence, the recent lawsuits and this issue even being discussed, etc. There is also mercury in some processed foods, as a preservative. You.....might want to go research......something?
@shanedk Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in vaccines since the 30's. Citation needed? Are you my college professor now? LOL....go fuck yourself.
@shanedk They are still producing childhood vaccines in the US with Thimerosal in trace amounts and shipping vaccines ALL OVER the 3rd world with heavy amounts. Lawsuits involving vaccines with Thimerosal were for product administered after its ban in 1999. These vaccines in question were shelved for years and given to children with the higher doses of mercury around 2002. But regardless, the CDC says Thimerosal is "perfectly safe" so I guess we should all just shut up and OBEY.
@dminortheory Or how about the fact that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE showing the amount of mercury in thimerosal being harmful...
@dminortheory The thing is, there is more mercury in a tuna fish sandwich then there is mercury in all vaccinations combined. I believe it is even only 1/9th of the amount of mercury in a tuna fish sandwich at that.
@cbl2988 And it's a different kind of mercury, too. The mercury in tuna (methylmercury) is really a problem because it bioaccumulates; the mercury in thimerosal (ethylmercury) doesn't do that.
@cbl2988 Well...right. Pregnant women are instructed by their doctors (unless he is a total quack) to limit their fish consumption and avoid things like hot dogs because of the hideous nitrates. The amount of mercury in vaccines, especially when you are giving an infant 30 of them at once...how is that safe?
@TheStarchild007 No, they didn't. In fact, it's known that the average caveman only lived to be 18. Modern science > bronze-age text written by desert nomads.
@vspqbd Of course there were those who lived longer, just not many, and just as many died very young. Figure someone living to their late 30s for every dying infant.
Makes me wonder; Many of these hippies hawking anti-vax stuff seem to think that all those homeopathic, all natural, herbal cures, etc are good, but are "being suppressed by the evil greedy capitalists and government". But if those pharmaceutical companies really are that greedy, and the stuff really does work, wouldn't they try to use and profit from it, instead of trying to spend (and lose tons of money) trying to suppress it?
Thank you for an excellent and well-illustrated example of how herd immunity saves lives and also displaying some of the logical fallacies used by the anti-vaccination crowd. Vaccines demonstratably save lives and I'm horrified at the recent epidemics of previously well-controlled diseases we're seeing as a result of lack of vaccination.
Thank you! I'm still to this day fighting these idiots on the autism part! I should know that vaccines don't cause autism! Every single male in my family has Asperger Syndrome! Even my Grandfather before vaccinations were common!
rehwr 1 day ago
and if you live around a bunch of "antivaccers"
kill them before they do it with their stupidity
-> evolution it's the law
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unless you have a cure for stupidity, then by all means use it
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don't take this too seriously, it wasn't meant literally
unamaxify 1 month ago
@kalimist917 According to you, humans never came down with disease before the 20th century. Do you see the stupidity here? Whatever, have fun trying to cure cancer with lettuce.
ninetails593 1 month ago
MARIJUANA41011 has been blocked for false accusations of mass murder.
shanedk 2 months ago
I'm gonna not get vaccinated, but other people will be vaccinated for me, so I don't have to because of herd immunity :)
markus031098 2 months ago
@markus031098 Writing a country song?
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn I never said anything of the kind.
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn How did I give an argument for it? There is all the difference in the world between saying people SHOULD do something and saying we need to FORCE them to do it. I am continually amazed at all of the people who don't understand this!
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn There is NO serious debate going on about this. The only claims that there are come from lying anti-vaccers who are desperate to try to make themselves out to be some kind of martyr class. When pressed, the ONLY example they come up with is vaccination requirements for schools--but PRIVATE schools require vaccinations as well, as do day cares, day camps, and other places that are concerned about the safety of the children--because they KNOW they will be safer.
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn No, the debate is because of idiots out there saying that vaccines cause autism and mental retardation and all sorts of other bullshit. They're so successful that there are places in the US, the UK, Australia, and other countries where they've gotten such a hold that the community has lost herd immunity, and there's a resurgence of measles, pertussis, and other diseases resulting in children DYING when they don't have to.
Covered MANY times in my podcast.
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn No, because the REAL science shows that what they say is 100% BOGUS.
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn "Scientists say one thing is good for you one year then the next it isn't."
No, the news media might jump all over the science and misreport it, but more often than not when you look at the REAL science that's not what it's doing.
"They say they can predict what the weather will be like in 400 years"
Who says that? [citation needed]
Can you cite ANY peer-reviewed scientific paper claiming that correlation is evidence?
shanedk 2 months ago
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buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@buckaroopopcorn I've watched the video once and he never said anyone should be forced to get a vaccine... You clearly missed the purpose of this video.
Ergo, you are an ignorant moron and you should get in line with your other anti-vaccers.
TheKainMan 2 months ago
@TheKainMan I did miss the purpose. I admit it. I found this video in a reddit post that was arguing for mandatory vaccinations and got confused. My apologies shanedk.
buckaroopopcorn 2 months ago
@shanedk "No, the debate is because of idiots out there saying that vaccines cause autism and mental retardation and all sorts of other bullshit. "
Which is ironic since one of the complications of diseases like measles and pertussis is actually mental retardation.
johnrainrules 2 months ago
Great video shanedk, don't forget that with these idiots talking about becoming infected while vaccinated, with a vaccination of a virus it may only be one or two strains in the vaccination itself (most prelevant). An antigenic shift can occur which can be the same virus, just a different mutated strand which nobody is immune to which can also cause these false allocations of the immune becoming sick with the 'same' virus as they were vaccinated against.
corkey29 2 months ago
@bweazel just to clarify, you're asking for an example of 100% population in order to validate the simulation? correct?
AlexMalricSmith 2 months ago
Nicely done video, thank you!
resistnzisfutl 3 months ago
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anonymous21person 3 months ago
9:12 Left side: sane. Right side: Omega Man.
Xtro2005 3 months ago 3
In short.... your code sucks dick, bro. Human beings survive viruses, we have for hundreds of thousands of years. Is it an inconvenience to suffer viruses? Yes. But does that give people the right to force vaccinations on others, or try to guilt trip them for not being part of the herd? Not at all. This is a question of morality at the core of it. Your logic is misleading, and your attempt at science is, in my opinion, dishonest (perhaps purposefully).
bweazel 4 months ago
As for polio, the 1% who typically developed paralysis were wealthy whites and their children. By vaccinating the rest of the population, and losing some people who may have never come in contact with the disease in the first place, you can control how the virus moves. The poor and immunodeficient take the pain to protect the top tier of society. That's what mass vaccination is. Does it work? Sure, why wouldn't it? Is it moral? No, it is not.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "As for polio, the 1% who typically developed paralysis were wealthy whites and their children" yes, they were also shapeshifting reptillians, so they were more vulnerable to the virus.....
BillKiernan 4 months ago
The reason this video is so dumb, is that his computer model assumes that without vaccinations, there would be 100% mortality every single time it is run. History shows otherwise. 80-90% of people that contracted polio showed no symptoms, built up their own immunity, and after a period of time, were not contagious anymore. Mass vacation "works", but it comes at the cost of people whose stories are swept under the rug and considered losses for the greater good.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel No, the model assumes 90% mortality. And only ONE opportunity to infect others.
Interesting that you cherry-pick polio. Ever heard of smallpox? Google for pictures.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk Oh? So what's this then? 2:44 "The disease has now killed off everybody" Indeed it has, my friend, indeed it has. I'm willing to bet if you ran that same input 5000 times, you would have 100% mortality each time.
Your code is a sham and does not relate to real world scenarios at all. It doesn't account for natural immunity, already existing antibodies, genetics, and a number of other factors.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel Yes, because people got it MULTIPLE TIMES, YOU IDIOT!!!
"It doesn't account for natural immunity"
BULLSHIT!!! There's a 10% natural immunity there.
"already existing antibodies"
No such thing! Learn how the immune system works.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk There's no such thing as getting a virus and your body fighting it off and making antibodies? No such thing? And I need to learn how the immune system works?
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "There's no such thing as getting a virus and your body fighting it off and making antibodies?"
With some diseases? No! In fact, some (like HIV and smallpox) specifically attack the immune system!
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk So are those the ones you are trying to tell me that have a 100% mortality rate? Sorry, man. Not true. And the facts don't side with you at all. Some people are naturally immune to some diseases. There are now people in Africa that are carriers of the AIDS virus, but are not affected by it at all. Likewise, with smallpox, there are carriers or naturally immune people.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel BULLSHIT AGAIN. I've already given you references. You're just a FUCKING LIAR. And you don't CARE whom your lies KILL. And you DARE lecture ME on morality???
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk That is not only ONE opportunity. That node has the possibility of running that code up to nine times, and all nodes will continue to run their loop until all nodes are either dead or vaccinated (even though according to you, 90% of those vaccinated will die)
And you guys accuse us of pseudo-science. Get real, you are purposefully programming data to reach your preconceived goal of how things should be. You model assumes non-vaccinated people die 100% of the time, they don't.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "That is not only ONE opportunity. That node has the possibility of running that code up to nine times"
ONLY if it has 9 neighbors: once per neighbor. Ones on the edge only get 5, 3 on the corners.
"and all nodes will continue to run their loop until all nodes are either dead or vaccinated"
BULLSHIT. A COMPLETE LIE to anyone who sees it. If you were to click on a node, and that node by chance didn't infect any of its neighbors, THE SIMULATION STOPS.
ALL you have are LIES.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk Also looks as though you are adding the deceased into your calculations too, not intentionally, but just by the way your model is set up. The first person gets sick by the click, the loop runs 9 times with each run having the chance to infect one of the 9, after one gets infected, it starts its own loop, but this time is limited to only 8 people, with math used for 9. How exactly did you expect your model not to stop? Haha. Again, this has no real world merit at all. Zero.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "Also looks as though you are adding the deceased into your calculations too"
BULLSHIT AGAIN. A node gets ONE AND ONLY ONE chance to infect each of its neighbors AND THEN DIES. There is NO MORE PARTICIPATION IN THE SIMULATION AFTER THAT.
"but this time is limited to only 8 people, with math used for 9"
There is NO "math used for 9" in ANY sense here. You're just making excuses, and you do NOT know what you're talking about. IDIOT.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk Your model is a play on logarithmic math, and a very small sliver of the math that actually goes into real world immunology. If your logic held true, no one would be alive today, because we would have never been able to survive any viruses. Your model insinuates that without vaccinations, the human body cannot defend itself and would become extinct with any single virus.
I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just think this is too oversimplified to really support your case.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel Bullshit AGAIN! Are you saying that no diseases have ever wiped out a population? Are you saying that diseases don't mutate, that new diseases (such as HIV) never come about?
And are you saying, like the idiot creationists, that all of this just appeared as it is one day, instead of slowly evolving in an evolutionary arms race?
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk Bullshit? Show me a disease in the history of this planet that had a 100% population for a large group of humans. Go ahead, I'll wait. Remember, 100%. Ok? Go.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "Show me a disease in the history of this planet that had a 100% population for a large group of humans."
Ever heard of the Black Death? 1/3rd of Europe all total, with MANY different towns wiped out completely!
Fucktard.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk 1/3 is not 1. Your model is flawed. Fix it. Fucktard. Which towns were wiped out completely? I'm not in the mood for hearsay.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel So you missed the part about ENTIRE TOWNS being killed off???
YOU ARE A LIAR.
Go fucking read up on history and STOP MURDERING PEOPLE!!!
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk Name and population of these towns? If we're talking about a town of 20 or so, ya, I could believe that, but if we're talking thousands of families, no sorry, we are an adaptable species. Also, the black plague is not a virus, so it really doesn't require being vaccinated. It was a bacteria which could be handled with antibiotics. You just love pulling shit out of your ass don't you? Anything to defend your shitty model, eh?
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "Also, the black plague is not a virus, so it really doesn't require being vaccinated. It was a bacteria"
Pertussis is also a bacteria, IDIOT. YOU'RE the one pulling crap out of your ass!
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk 5:08. Sounds more like you than me during this conversation. Perhaps you let your preconceived notions of the opposition blind you from rationally debating my argument. 6:47. This sums up your model perfectly, funny you would use it to describe your opponents.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel And if you want an example of a disease wiping out an entire mammalian species, see "Historical Mammal Extinction on Christmas Island (Indian Ocean) Correlates with Introduced Infectious Disease" PLoS ONE 3(11):e3602.
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk I'm not interested in localized events. We mingle in this country. We do not usually stay one place our entire lives, and the ones that don't are exposed to the ones that do. Again, your model sucks and has no real world merit.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel "Localized events"??? I give you THE EXTINCTION OF AN ENTIRE SPECIES and you come back with "localized events"???
You are among the most horrific scum of all humanity!
shanedk 4 months ago
@shanedk .... all sorts of species are always going extinct you alarmist. Care to point me towards the last homo sapien extinction to happen on this planet? I'm asking you to link your model to real world events here. The human species, as it is today, is not separated from the entire world on some lone island. We interact with this entire world and each other very much. So again, for the third time now, your model has no real world merit and should not be taken seriously.
bweazel 4 months ago
This is such a dumb and misleading video.
bweazel 4 months ago
Yeah, I may be considered socialist (only in the fact that there should be a saftey net for people who would otherwise be abused by corporate/government greed or general injustice) but I kno for a fact vaccines are-for lak of a better word-a godsend. They're among the pinnacles of medical science and proof of how far we came. It baffles me why ant-vaccers wanna rock the boat.
NUTCASE71733 4 months ago
i love when they try to claim vaccines are about making money..when they're usually delivered only once, and are not expensive....
BillKiernan 5 months ago
@BillKiernan They're not expensive for you because you're not buying them, the government does.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel i've bought them, some are not expensive. and they're usually given once.
BillKiernan 4 months ago
@BillKiernan They are subsidized. The amount you pay is no where close to the amount they were given before hand.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel that's nice dear. i'm not going to read the sign you're holding on the street corner and i'm not going to buy a pencil out of your cup. now move along.
BillKiernan 4 months ago
@BillKiernan Just know this, mass vaccinations are controlled epidemics. If you are willing to take that risk, by all means, have at it. You may lose your child, if you're ok with putting a weakened (possibly) virus into your body, cool, go for it, but don't pass judgement on people who would rather take their chances with nature.
It has lots to do with money, and lots to do with control. You seem to be naive about how your taxes are spent. The price you pay is not what it cost.
bweazel 4 months ago
@bweazel i'll pass judgment on you for being scientifically illiterate, stupid, and spreading disinformation that puts everyone at risk. "controlled epidemics?" idiot.
BillKiernan 4 months ago
Fuck all the vaccines. Im not injecting myself with no shit. Fuck all the pharmaceutical companies. Im nobody's guinea pig. Most people die from cancer these days and not from viruses unless they are in vulnerable health groups, old people and children. Drugs do one good thing and cause 5 bad things. Side-effects. Drugs can cause cancer. Do the right thing, keep injecting yourself with mercury and other harmful stuff you will never find out what they are. Help drug producers become rich.
KPAracing 5 months ago
@KPAracing "Most people die from cancer these days and not from viruses"
And that couldn't POSSIBLY be because of all the vaccines, could it?
shanedk 5 months ago 3
@shanedk Maybe yes, maybe no. But thing is we dont know what kind of other chemicals and possibly dioxins are contained in the vaccines apart from the "switched-off" virus and MERCURY.
KPAracing 5 months ago
@KPAracing "Maybe yes, maybe no."
No, DEFINITELY yes! Why do people suddenly start getting sick of these diseases in areas where you brainless yahoos have managed to get a foothold?
And we know EXACTLY what is in vaccines--it's PUBLISHED. It HAS to be, BY LAW!!!
shanedk 5 months ago 6
How many people who died from H1N1 had received the vaccine?
optimumperformance 6 months ago
@optimumperformance No known cases.
shanedk 6 months ago
@shanedk Where did you get this information from. I personally know one person that died. Can you reference your source?
optimumperformance 6 months ago
@optimumperformance No such cases have been reported to the CDC. "I personally know one person" is called an "anecdote." Can you post ANY verifiable information that this has happened? Why haven't you reported it to the CDC?
shanedk 6 months ago 2
@shanedk The old "i know a guy." i've been arguing with a totally insane anti vac/alex jones fan on an expat message board recently (i live in peru). for EVERY conspiracy he spews about, fluoride, vaccines, etc, he "knows someone" or "knows a few people" who have their teeth rotting out from fluoride, or who got a disease from a vaccine. just like creationists, they have no problem outright lying to push their agenda.
BillKiernan 5 months ago
@BillKiernan Michele Bachmann just did the exact same thing. I'll have details in the next podcast.
shanedk 5 months ago
@BillKiernan Flouride? Really? I thought that was just an off-hand joke in Doctor Strangelove.
Virgil0211 5 months ago
@Virgil0211 nope, there's a huge movement of conspiratards that dish out disinformation about how fluoride in the water is poison and it makes you brain dead and/or rots out your teeth and is part of the Illuminati's plan to control us all. look into it, or don't, your faith in humanity will be reduced, no doubt.
BillKiernan 5 months ago
@BillKiernan Please tell me that Doctor Strangelove was just parodying such conspiratard nonsense and didn't actually inspire it. Right? These people can't be so dense that they would base something like this on an old mov... No, wait. They are. Shit...
Virgil0211 5 months ago
@BillKiernan If you want to see some really hilarious examples of that just look up any of Gorilla199's videos.
johnrainrules 5 months ago
@johnrainrules awesome, just looked and it's a great channel, just subbed. thanks for the heads-up
BillKiernan 5 months ago
Question- What is the percentage of people who can't take vaccinations. This includes very young infants, people who are allergic to them, and people with AIDS.
shinokiba 6 months ago
I get every vaccination that I can. I am glad I am doing my part.
shinokiba 7 months ago
Comment removed
ranapipiens89 7 months ago
@ranapipiens89 COTTON on. Perfectly acceptable English.
shanedk 7 months ago
you're all idiots
pfranks44 7 months ago
WTF??
Seems that socialism is such a dirty word in Amerika, that not only the anti-vaccination nuts blame socialism for vaccines, but now the anti-anti-vaccination side is blaming 'extremist' socialism as well!!!
If you start with such a statement, it showes you're willing to say anything to prove your point, so why should I trust you more than them.
Good thing I don't have to depend on youtube to know that vaccines are safe. Because if I did, this video would have given me the wrong message
Belgianmeth 7 months ago 2
@Belgianmeth I only said that the current incarnation of anti-vaccination grew out of the socialist movement--because it DID, specifically the "green our vaccines" CAM/naturopatic part of it.
And I only mentioned that because a lot of people were blaming libertarians for it!
shanedk 7 months ago 2
I think this is a case that demonstrates the necessity of collective or government action for SOME, not all, problems. The approach from the government side is easy, regulate that all persons of such an age receive appropriate vaccinations.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
(continued) I doubt a for-profit model could effectively vaccinate a population. Consumers are loath to pay for the benefit of their neighbors. And since it only works if a high percentage buy the vaccine, that is a significant marketing problem since no benefit is received unless your neighbor buys it too. Also there is the question of corruption since sick people are more profitable than healthy.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "I doubt a for-profit model could effectively vaccinate a population. "
Tough; it has. MANY times.
"Consumers are loath to pay for the benefit of their neighbors."
Total bullshit. Go take an Econ 101 class.
"Also there is the question of corruption since sick people are more profitable than healthy."
How did you come to THAT insane conclusion?
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk
"Take an Econ 101 class."
You wouldn't have liked my econ class. My professor used "the positive externality" of state mandated polio vaccines to school children as an argument for state interventionism.
vspqbd 7 months ago
@vspqbd Um...did you mention a little group called the March of Dimes to him?
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk
No. Because I don't know who they are or what they do.
vspqbd 7 months ago
@vspqbd They were formed in the 1940s to cure polio. You may have heard of one of their members, a Dr. Jonas Salk? After polio was conquered they expanded to work on other birth defects.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk
Wow. So he lied to us (big surprise...) either through negligence, or through misrepresentation.
No, sadly, I haven't. Sounds like they are a rather good (private) organization then.
vspqbd 7 months ago
@vspqbd Yes, although they were initially founded by FDR (a polio sufferer), it was a private foundation.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk From wikipedia,"The March of Dimes Foundation is a United States nonprofit organisation " I ASKED FOR A FOR-PROFIT MODEL!!!
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics Then you're a FUCKING LIAR. Non-profit organizations are very much a part of the free market and an essential part of free market health care, AS I SAID IN MY VIDEO, YOU LIAR!
Besides, all "non-profit" means is that the people running the organization don't get dividends. The organization STILL has to worry about the money coming in being greater than the money they spend; if it's not, they go away.
You're nothing but a fucking dogmatist. Go away.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk " Non-profit organizations are very much a part of the free market and an essential part of free market health care" You have a funny definition of "Free Market". Non-profits do not exchange their goods or services at the market rate set by the intersection of supply and demand curves, so they are not part of the free market. Just because something is private, non-gov't, does not mean it is part of the free market, a little false dichotomy on your part???
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "Non-profits do not exchange their goods or services at the market rate set by the intersection of supply and demand curves"
Of course they do! If they exchanged it at a higher rate, there'd be a surplus; if a lower, there'd be a shortage. Can't get around it!
ANY voluntary exchange is BY DEFINITION part of the free market!
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk A homeless shelter giving away a sandwich that the market values at ~$5 to a homeless person for free, is not exchanging it at the market rate. You do have some good things to say, but when you run to the libertarian dogmatist camp, you are just insane.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics Are you REALLY that dense??? Do you think that sandwich just got created out of thin air? Do you think that just because the charity is giving it away for free means that they didn't have to consume any resources in the economy?
Do you REALLY not realize that this sandwich WAS paid for at the market rate--BY DONORS???
Geez, and you call ME insane!
shanedk 7 months ago
Comment removed
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics Caught that comment before you deleted it...good move. Nice to see you can recognize a dumb argument when you see it!
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk Every product goes through many exchanges of goods or services between raw materials and end user. To conclude that since one (or some) of those exchanges took place on the free market that every exchange occurred on the free market, is a fallacy.
However, after viewing, watch?v=iXUSliphRmg I see that you are willing to be intellectually dishonest just to win a debate, so there is no point in talking to you anymore. Goodbye.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics If I buy a sandwich and give it to one of my kids to eat, no one would deny that is the product of a free market. If I buy the sandwich and give it to a homeless guy outside, there's no difference. So why would it all of a sudden be different if I have an agent (the charity) do it for me?
And if you'd follow the ACTUAL exchange between me and AndroidPolitician, you'll see it is clearly HE who is being dishonest. But your dogma will NEVER allow you to consider that.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk "Tough; it has. MANY times." Citation please for a for-profit model that has effectively brought a population from 0% vaccinated to herd immunity. I doubt you'll find it because all the major nations use regulation to vaccinate the population. Also, google scholar "Can Influenza Epidemics Be Prevented by Voluntary Vaccination?", you'll see that you are wrong theoretically as well as empirically.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics There's your bullshit "for-profit" again. YOU are the one saying we need GOVERNMENT to do this. By making the only two choices government and for-profit, you are committing a False Dichotomy--the resort of the dogmatist.
The March of Dimes is an EXCELLENT example of a PRIVATE FREE-MARKET ORGANIZATION that effectively went from no vaccine even EXISTING to herd immunity. You need to fucking DEAL.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk I concede that I did ignore the possibilities of private non-profits providing vaccines, and they could work because they work well for issues that affect the interest of more than one person unlike for-profits, but that does not change the point that governments can effectively vaccinate a population and that for-profits can't.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics If I were to choose btwn gov't and non-profit here, I prefer gov't since it can more easily operate on a large scale and can possibly force action on the part of those who oppose, such as vaccine denialists easier than private non-profits could. But of course, if a private non-profit happens to do it, then good, but the problem is you have no guarantee that a non-profit will step in if the societal need is dire, such as herd immunity.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics Then how come it's been done for decades without government requiring it?
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk "Total bullshit. Go take an Econ 101 class."
Wrong again. The basis of capitalism is selfishness on the part of the business and consumer. Assuming a 0% vaccinated population, a consumer would find no reason to spend $ on a vaccine if he receives no benefit unless his neighbor buys it, too. Also, a consumer looks for the best value for his $, and in this situation the best value per $ is the unvacinated person who is surrounded by vaccinated people, thus incentive to NOT get vaccinated
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "The basis of capitalism is selfishness on the part of the business and consumer."
Total bullshit, and a violation of Rule #5 of this channel. First warning.
Besides, the pharmaceutical companies who sold the polio vaccine didn't make a profit???
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk "The basis of capitalism is selfishness on the part of the business and consumer." This is not character assassination because I was not attacking any single capitalist, I was attacking the system, and it is not libel because it is true. How can a self-proclaimed libertarian ignore the principle of "Rational Self-interest", or forget the title of Ayn Rand's collection of essays,"The Virtue of Selfishness".
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "This is not character assassination because I was not attacking any single capitalist"
You attacked ALL capitalists, which makes it bigotry as well. And it is NOT true in anything other than the Randian idea of "selfishness," which is clearly NOT what you meant.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk "Besides, the pharmaceutical companies who sold the polio vaccine didn't make a profit???" Perhaps, but it is not their cash cow. The profit is made in drugs that patients have to take over and over again, such as psychiatric meds, not one time doses like vaccines. I couldn't find a citation other than Penn&Teller's Bullshit episode on vaccines gives the figure that less than 2% of prescription drug sales are vaccines.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "Perhaps, but it is not their cash cow."
COMPLETELY beside the point.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk "How did you come to THAT insane conclusion?"
It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people, just look at the weight loss industry. Seriously, hospitals make much more $ for someone who is living in an Iron Lung than someone who never goes to the hospital because he or she is healthy.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@loveofphysics "It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people"
No, it isn't obvious, because it's NOT TRUE. They make FAR more money with PREVENTATIVE care. Because EVERYONE needs preventative care; only sick people need sick treatment, and the expenses with those people are HUGE.
Your having to use the example of iron lungs--which are hardly used anymore--is a fucking JOKE.
shanedk 7 months ago
@shanedk
@loveofphysics "It is obvious that the health care industry makes more $ fixing sick people than maintaining healthy people"
No, it isn't obvious, because it's NOT TRUE. They make FAR more money with PREVENTATIVE care.
Pharmaco's can make even more money with maintaining sick people.
It took an awful long time before medical world accepted helicobacter pylori's existence. I've often wondered if the profitable life-long treatment of stomach ulcers with antacids played a role ;-)
Belgianmeth 7 months ago
@Belgianmeth No, it's because too many doctors weren't engaging in science-based medicine.
shanedk 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shanedk "Your having to use the example of iron lungs--which are hardly used anymore--is a fucking JOKE." I also used the example of the weight loss industry, which is a big scam, and makes money off of sick (out-of-shape) people, and is going on today.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
@shanedk It is clear that you are COMPLETELY WRONG on this account. If you would go beyond Econ 101 and read some Amartya Sen, you would see that problems that affect the whole society, like in this case vaccination and herd immunity, cannot be adequately addressed by markets. Market may be powerful, but they are limited to problems that affect a single consumer. Markets have a myopic view, which governments do not necessarily share. Libertarian ideas in practice cannot vaccinate a population.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
It's good, But you Assume the illness is Fatal 100% of the time.
ThePuppyTurtle 8 months ago
@ThePuppyTurtle No, I do not! The simulation assumes 90% fatality. (Actually, it just assumes 90% INFECTION.)
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk It assumes every infection is Fatal
ThePuppyTurtle 8 months ago
@ThePuppyTurtle The fatality is actually immaterial.
shanedk 8 months ago
@ThePuppyTurtle Whether or not every infection is fatal does not change the fact that every infection is an infection. The analysis here equally applies to fatal and non-fatal diseases.
loveofphysics 7 months ago
If you have the math and the science (not to mention a cool simulation) to back you up, then you don't have to be a dick by shouting the opposing point of view in a stupid voice.
damienlocutus 8 months ago
@damienlocutus Yeah, but it's still fun...
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk
And fun to watch.
I like it. ^_^
vspqbd 8 months ago
I wrote an article with a link to your video.
I hope you don't mind.
cbl2988 8 months ago
@cbl2988 Not at all, thanks!
shanedk 8 months ago
9:12 Praise the Lord that one green dot survived! Out of ALL those dots who perished, only that one dot survived! Probably a child dot, too. Clearly God had a very important purpose for saving that special young dot, and you would be a fool to deny it.
...
Okay, it's not an anti-creationist video so I ought not poke fun at religion, but it did remind me of one since creationists and anti-vaccers use such similar methods of arguing.
Megaritz 8 months ago
the thing is, if we didn't use the medications and technology that the "evil capitalists" make, we'd be living in grass huts and dying of malaria at 30.
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 Well, it was all-natural and organic...
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk The thing I don't get with these people, is did they pay attention in grade 9 science class? They're all afraid of "chemicals", what they don't realize is that water and "sodium chloride" are "chemicals". I trust peer reviewed scientific solutions made by intelligent people over some hippie with a magic berry.
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 I know, right? I've tried telling some of these greenies that water is a chemical solvent and they refused to believe me!
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk It's just... there's just this desire to go against the norm and be non conformist. If I put square tires on my car, I'm not a "non conformist", I'm being a retard. Same thing with vaccines. It's against the "big pharma" and the "evil corporations", and not getting vaccines to be a non conformist is just as stupid as square tires.
noob616 8 months ago
I am shocked that all of you actually think the argument is anti vaccine...and not what it REALLY is...anti mercury preservatives IN vaccines, which never used to be there! Mass production of food and medicine has brought with it harmful preservatives that our bodies are not meant to ingest. THAT is the argument.
dminortheory 8 months ago
@dminortheory First of all, NO mercury has been in children's vaccines in something like 10 years. Second, it has NEVER EVER EVER been shown that the amount of mercury in those vaccines was harmful.
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk You are SO wrong about that. There is absolutely mercury in children's vaccines. Hence, the recent lawsuits and this issue even being discussed, etc. There is also mercury in some processed foods, as a preservative. You.....might want to go research......something?
dminortheory 8 months ago
@dminortheory "There is absolutely mercury in children's vaccines."
Not since 2002. THIS IS A LIE.
And the lawsuits are from shaister lawyers who paid people like Andrew Wakefield to fake the data showing dangers of vaccines.
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in vaccines since the 30's. Citation needed? Are you my college professor now? LOL....go fuck yourself.
dminortheory 8 months ago
@dminortheory Thimerosal was taken out of children's vaccines 10 year ago. Stop pretending to be informed when you're not.
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk They are still producing childhood vaccines in the US with Thimerosal in trace amounts and shipping vaccines ALL OVER the 3rd world with heavy amounts. Lawsuits involving vaccines with Thimerosal were for product administered after its ban in 1999. These vaccines in question were shelved for years and given to children with the higher doses of mercury around 2002. But regardless, the CDC says Thimerosal is "perfectly safe" so I guess we should all just shut up and OBEY.
dminortheory 8 months ago
@dminortheory Or how about the fact that there is NOT ONE SINGLE PIECE OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE showing the amount of mercury in thimerosal being harmful...
shanedk 8 months ago
@dminortheory Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to show that infants are given 30 doses at a time!
shanedk 8 months ago
@dminortheory The thing is, there is more mercury in a tuna fish sandwich then there is mercury in all vaccinations combined. I believe it is even only 1/9th of the amount of mercury in a tuna fish sandwich at that.
cbl2988 8 months ago
@cbl2988 And it's a different kind of mercury, too. The mercury in tuna (methylmercury) is really a problem because it bioaccumulates; the mercury in thimerosal (ethylmercury) doesn't do that.
shanedk 8 months ago
@cbl2988 Well...right. Pregnant women are instructed by their doctors (unless he is a total quack) to limit their fish consumption and avoid things like hot dogs because of the hideous nitrates. The amount of mercury in vaccines, especially when you are giving an infant 30 of them at once...how is that safe?
dminortheory 8 months ago
@dminortheory "especially when you are giving an infant 30 of them at once"
Citation DEFINITELY needed on that one. Infants are given 30 vaccines at the same time???
shanedk 8 months ago
@dminortheory It is safe. There is no evidence to the contrary.
cbl2988 8 months ago
@TheStarchild007 No, they didn't. In fact, it's known that the average caveman only lived to be 18. Modern science > bronze-age text written by desert nomads.
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk
So science and technology got us from an average lifespan of 18 to ~80+. Or over a quadrupling of the human lifespan. Awesome. :)
vspqbd 8 months ago
@vspqbd Of course there were those who lived longer, just not many, and just as many died very young. Figure someone living to their late 30s for every dying infant.
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk
IIRC, many Victorian graveyards had no shortage of dead babies.
Something that the Smallpox and Polio vaccines helped change.
But I guess the anti-vaxxers wouldn't mind that kind of world....
vspqbd 8 months ago
Makes me wonder; Many of these hippies hawking anti-vax stuff seem to think that all those homeopathic, all natural, herbal cures, etc are good, but are "being suppressed by the evil greedy capitalists and government". But if those pharmaceutical companies really are that greedy, and the stuff really does work, wouldn't they try to use and profit from it, instead of trying to spend (and lose tons of money) trying to suppress it?
vspqbd 8 months ago
@vspqbd Indeed they would!
shanedk 8 months ago
i can explain this in a sexual way
MajorNuttela14 8 months ago
@MajorNuttela14 Rule 34 strikes again!
shanedk 8 months ago
@shanedk hi 5
MajorNuttela14 8 months ago
@TheStarchild007 You mean, back when the average age was only about 30?
shanedk 8 months ago
Thank you for an excellent and well-illustrated example of how herd immunity saves lives and also displaying some of the logical fallacies used by the anti-vaccination crowd. Vaccines demonstratably save lives and I'm horrified at the recent epidemics of previously well-controlled diseases we're seeing as a result of lack of vaccination.
GeekRyuu 8 months ago
The evil capitalists hahahah, this is a great video
noob616 9 months ago