I am an atheist and I applaud some of the things she has accomplished or at at least worked on. However, I read that she wasn't a decent person. I kind of find it odd that she lived, eat , worked and vacationed with her son and grand daughter. I have to wonder if she interfered with her offspring's blooming into people. They seem to have been totally reliant on and under control of Mrs O'Hair. Is it true that she DELIBERATELY hired criminals to work in her office?
@christo930 You read that she wasn't a decent person? Can you give examples, or just say that you read it? The three Murray-O'Hairs did a lot together because they were roundly hated as a family, not just Madalyn, and they found that even a lot of Atheists can let you down. They found it best for security and also financial reasons. Living in one house kept their bills down too. They were also a close team at the office. It only made sense for them to spend a great deal of family time.
@christo930 You're welcome to wonder about them all you like, but the suggestion invites the question: What do you base that on?
NO, they did not deliberately hire criminals to work in their office. She was a lawyer, remember? Back then, it wasn't so easy for a non-profit organization that was REALLY unpopular with the government to do a thorough background check on someone, and even when they can, it's not perfect. He hid his background successfully. It happens. Think about it.
@aajoeyjo Most of it came from her estranged son, so I don't give it that much weight. I did find the whole living and working together thing kind of strange, which tends to add some credibility to his claims. However, I know he is a Christian. Do you know who severed the relationship? He doesn't really say and she claimed that she took it as a postbirth abortion (or something to that effect). My whole family are theists, but I certainly wouldn't disown them.
@christo930 Abortion?? That's not a viable claim. He left AA in the early 80s and got really conservative and became the religious right's posterboy against Atheism. And it was easy because he was that kid at the middle of that lawsuit, and Madalyn's son. So of course he was encouraged to talk badly about them and everyone at AA, including his own daughter, who never hurt anyone.
The Murray-O'Hairs were close family members who loved each other, so living together wasn't odd, but normal.
@aajoeyjo She said the abortion thing, not me. You can read the quote on Wikipedia's MMO page.
Living together, working together and vacationing together really isn't that normal. Kids move out from their parent's home, usually in their 20's. Her son was in his 40's and her grand daughter was in her 30's. I just find it odd. I'm happy for the contributions she made to our society and separation of church and state, but like all of us, she is a human and had bad points.
@christo930 - In another article. Oh okay. I was focused on this video.
No one's saying they weren't perfect. If you read "The Atheist Epic" it'll explain a lot of how and why they were the way they were. I'm glad you appreciate her contributions. Yes she was very human and had bad points. We agree on that. Hey we agree! Yes!
@aajoeyjo DO you know if MM O'Hair has an autobiography and if so, what it is called? I would like to hear her story from her own perspective. It's hard to find unbiased information about her because she was so hated. For example, many people downplay her role in the removal of forced prayer in school by saying the supreme court just happened to rule on her case and that there were many other cases working through the appellate courts. While she wouldn't be unbiased, I would at least know her.
@christo930 - Some people have written biographies of her, but she did not like the idea of an autobiography or a diary. The closest we have to that is "The Atheist Epic." That and her many articles in the American Atheist Magazine and Newsletter describing her activism, and the adventures involved there. Also this film. It's rare to hear about her in her own words, and with video footage as well. Rare.
@aajoeyjo There is an excellent radio interview with her from ?1970? right here on youtube with a priest or something as her opponent. She is kind of gruff, but I have never seen anything like her son describes. The only thing that draws bad attention from me is the 2 kids thing. I was searching for the life magazine issue that described her as the most hated woman in America, but I can only find the year 64, no date and searching the life archive doesn't bring it up. DO you know what issue?
@aajoeyjo Do you know if there is a public archive her American Atheist writings? I would love to read them. She basically laid the ground work for modern outspoken atheists like Hitchens. There are even many celebrities that are "out of the closet" with their atheism and can still find work and I think she shocked the culture into accepting that we are here, even if we aren't very well accepted.
@christo930 - I'm not sure where to find a lot of articles, but for sure, AA will always have the most books by her, both for sale, and archived. If you go to Atheists dot org and to their store, then books, then search within that for Madalyn O'Hair. Good question. I'll look for an online source of articles now.
@christo930 - The best place to go, offline, to read her works is the AA Center in Cranford, New Jersey. Info about it is at Atheists dot org slash library.
They were murdered by David Waters an his gang. It was four men in total, and Waters worked at AA until Madalyn fired him for massive theft. She did an investigation when the police refused, then when she gathered sufficient evidence, the police moved, and he was arrested, and prosecuted for the theft, and convicted, and ordered to pay restitution, which he faltered on and never totally repaid.
In the end, three of the gang were caught and brought to justice. This isn't about carelessness.
@christo930 All three of these people worked their asses off for your civil right to be free from government imposed religion, in case you don't know. They sacrificed a lot too. There's a book called "The Atheist Epic" that details some pretty harsh Xian harassment they received just in the years leading up to the Supreme Court decision of 1963. Some of it's really shocking. Then after Robin was born, it became clear that working for our rights was their destiny. I respect that a lot.
Sounds like she didn't recieve much love from home at an early age because she was resentful of her mother and sometimes her father. She also looked very sad and still in grieving and disappointed when she mentioned how when we die, that's it! you can tell by the look on her face, she has a lot of sadness and heart ache pent up. So her way of coping and dealing with her disappointment and loss, is to try to rationalize her own feelings outwardly instead of dealing with them internally.
@aajoeyjo I watched all segments on her biography. everything's from pure observation. It's not negative. it's what I see in her outwardly expressions that are coming within the pain I see she was trying to hide when she spoke about death while interviewed on the talk show. One thing I understand well, is human behavior, needs, wants, expressions. People who find Joy in gardening and raising pets, usually felt great loss in life. Taking care of something, helps them to cope with the loss.
@3Deditor - It sounds mighty negative to me. I thought this movie showed her in a very positive light. She even tells a joke or two and laughs.
And who hasn't felt some great loss in their life, after living more than 50 years? Still, saying that people who find joy in gardening and raising pets usually felt great loss in life...that's quite a sweeping assumption. Some people dig around in a garden because it's fun. Can't it be that simple? She looked like she was having fun.
@aajoeyjo of course she was enjoying it. Didn't I say people find "Joy" in taking care of things and others because it helps them cope with the pain by helping them feel good about contributing to something. I can see a lot of unresolved resentment and anger hiding away within the tough outer exterior she portrayed to others. I also saw a vulnerable hurt child within her she was trying to protect. Everyone's got their strengths and weakness. Some people's are more noticeable than others.
@aajoeyjo I wonder how she would have answered these very statements "we can not change what we don't acknowledge" and "good predictor of future behavior, is by observing current behavior and looking back at the things that have caused us to deal with our emotions the way we have"
@3Deditor Wow, even your subconscious needs to warp your perception in order to boost your faith. I see you need to project your doubt onto other people. As a pastors son I have seen this time and time again over the last 30 years. Everything you fairy tale believers do is done to try to boost your own faith. Even when you witness to people you are doing it to try to out run that nagging doubt you have in the back of your mind.
@MrTruthAddict You're like other untrusting, skeptics I've spoken to in the past. You dealt with controlling parent( s) so you didn't know what to do with it. You feel trying to correct others, helps you feel some gained power back that was taken from you growing up. Try working on yourself first before giving any advice. Your own experience, foesn't apply to everyone. Remember, when you're doing within, you can do without.
Thanks for the lame psycho diagnosis but I am intimately familiar with your mental disorder. Ive seen it in hundreds of self-labeled Xtians. Xtianity appeals to people who don't want to take responsibility for themselves or their actions. This is why it is so popular in America's prison system. You can cast responsibility for all your evil deeds and shortcomings on a scapegoat (Jesus) and then go on living your life as if you are morally superior to others. It's a sick and immoral cult
"why does she say 'shootin the god damned bow'..."
I'm not sure whether you're silly enough for that to be an actual question, so I'll answer it anyway.
religion has been in humanity for centuries, it's why we have sayings like "god bless you" or "bloody hell," just like arabic language is full of references to allah.
when someone sneezes, I'll say "bless you" because it's traditional language, when something amazes me I might say "jesus christ!!"
I just discovered this short film. Thanks for posting these vids. It was great to see another side to this woman than the one that the media paints of her.
I have discovered a new hero. I have great respect for one who will stand against all the troubles Madalyn has, to go forward with her beliefs. This is something our country should support and encourage, instead, most of her trobles were from the untied states government and christian myth club. She stood for freedom of individuality.
hmm...i figured all along that she was an anarchist, and then she outright said it. It kinda bugs me that she kinda uses a definition of anarchy to describe atheism ("questioning EVERY kind of authority"), but they're all good ideas, so i guess labels are less important than the fact that they are both powerful ideas that fit together nicely.
Well questioning authority doesn't make you an anarchist, it is good to question, and ofc better to find answers. Quite surprised to see her being an anarchist, but I think she may have turned to that because of the way the government happens to be :S
thefakeyeti--I basically agree. Madalyn was also an anarchist, and lots of Atheists are today, but not all. Besides, by "anarchism" I think most anarchists mean self-rule. There's some amount of rule in that, but not from any government. I guess that's it...
Drugs are illegal because of some OTHER crimes wich tend to be related to them. For example muggings, thefts, break-ins and even murders are often comited by drug adicts trying to suport their habit.
Drugs are illegal because of racism, do the research.
NOT because cops requested them to be illegal, nor the medical field. But because a bunch racist politicians.. tHE reason why addicts have to break OTHER laws, is because drugs are artificially high in price.
if you legalize drugs. The prices will decrease, meaning they won't have to lie, cheat and steal for money to fund their addictions.
Beat---Correct. What makes it safe for us Atheists to say such things in public is the separation between government and religion. It's under attack, but I'm glad it's still there. It needs vigilant protection from those it protects as well. Call your Congresspersons! :o)
As I read the entire Qur'an, the whole boring book, I learned that the worst thing anyone can be is an atheist. There is this common misconception that Islamo"phobia." comes from the religious right. Some of the most articulate spokespersons against Islam come from atheist quarters, such as The Council for Secular Humanism.
I used to chum with an Iranian atheist who came here to study. When he returned to Iran, he had to go back into the closet, knowing that simply admitting to atheism would get him killed.
He told me of two relatives who were executed solely for owning Bibles. Well, I am an atheist and I own a Bible. The fact that this warrants the death penalty is chillingly absurd.
Why all the thumbs down?
sheri226 1 week ago in playlist Madalyn Murray-O'Hair 1970 Short Film
@sheri226 Most of my videos got votebotted a few years ago.
aajoeyjo 1 week ago
@aajoeyjo That's really screwed up, I'm glad you disabled them. These videos don't deserve to be thumbed down. Thank you for uploading them.
sheri226 1 week ago
I am an atheist and I applaud some of the things she has accomplished or at at least worked on. However, I read that she wasn't a decent person. I kind of find it odd that she lived, eat , worked and vacationed with her son and grand daughter. I have to wonder if she interfered with her offspring's blooming into people. They seem to have been totally reliant on and under control of Mrs O'Hair. Is it true that she DELIBERATELY hired criminals to work in her office?
christo930 9 months ago
@christo930 You read that she wasn't a decent person? Can you give examples, or just say that you read it? The three Murray-O'Hairs did a lot together because they were roundly hated as a family, not just Madalyn, and they found that even a lot of Atheists can let you down. They found it best for security and also financial reasons. Living in one house kept their bills down too. They were also a close team at the office. It only made sense for them to spend a great deal of family time.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@christo930 You're welcome to wonder about them all you like, but the suggestion invites the question: What do you base that on?
NO, they did not deliberately hire criminals to work in their office. She was a lawyer, remember? Back then, it wasn't so easy for a non-profit organization that was REALLY unpopular with the government to do a thorough background check on someone, and even when they can, it's not perfect. He hid his background successfully. It happens. Think about it.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@aajoeyjo Most of it came from her estranged son, so I don't give it that much weight. I did find the whole living and working together thing kind of strange, which tends to add some credibility to his claims. However, I know he is a Christian. Do you know who severed the relationship? He doesn't really say and she claimed that she took it as a postbirth abortion (or something to that effect). My whole family are theists, but I certainly wouldn't disown them.
christo930 9 months ago
@christo930 Abortion?? That's not a viable claim. He left AA in the early 80s and got really conservative and became the religious right's posterboy against Atheism. And it was easy because he was that kid at the middle of that lawsuit, and Madalyn's son. So of course he was encouraged to talk badly about them and everyone at AA, including his own daughter, who never hurt anyone.
The Murray-O'Hairs were close family members who loved each other, so living together wasn't odd, but normal.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@aajoeyjo She said the abortion thing, not me. You can read the quote on Wikipedia's MMO page.
Living together, working together and vacationing together really isn't that normal. Kids move out from their parent's home, usually in their 20's. Her son was in his 40's and her grand daughter was in her 30's. I just find it odd. I'm happy for the contributions she made to our society and separation of church and state, but like all of us, she is a human and had bad points.
christo930 9 months ago
@christo930 - In another article. Oh okay. I was focused on this video.
No one's saying they weren't perfect. If you read "The Atheist Epic" it'll explain a lot of how and why they were the way they were. I'm glad you appreciate her contributions. Yes she was very human and had bad points. We agree on that. Hey we agree! Yes!
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@aajoeyjo DO you know if MM O'Hair has an autobiography and if so, what it is called? I would like to hear her story from her own perspective. It's hard to find unbiased information about her because she was so hated. For example, many people downplay her role in the removal of forced prayer in school by saying the supreme court just happened to rule on her case and that there were many other cases working through the appellate courts. While she wouldn't be unbiased, I would at least know her.
christo930 9 months ago
@christo930 - Some people have written biographies of her, but she did not like the idea of an autobiography or a diary. The closest we have to that is "The Atheist Epic." That and her many articles in the American Atheist Magazine and Newsletter describing her activism, and the adventures involved there. Also this film. It's rare to hear about her in her own words, and with video footage as well. Rare.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@aajoeyjo There is an excellent radio interview with her from ?1970? right here on youtube with a priest or something as her opponent. She is kind of gruff, but I have never seen anything like her son describes. The only thing that draws bad attention from me is the 2 kids thing. I was searching for the life magazine issue that described her as the most hated woman in America, but I can only find the year 64, no date and searching the life archive doesn't bring it up. DO you know what issue?
christo930 9 months ago
@aajoeyjo Do you know if there is a public archive her American Atheist writings? I would love to read them. She basically laid the ground work for modern outspoken atheists like Hitchens. There are even many celebrities that are "out of the closet" with their atheism and can still find work and I think she shocked the culture into accepting that we are here, even if we aren't very well accepted.
christo930 9 months ago
@christo930 - I'm not sure where to find a lot of articles, but for sure, AA will always have the most books by her, both for sale, and archived. If you go to Atheists dot org and to their store, then books, then search within that for Madalyn O'Hair. Good question. I'll look for an online source of articles now.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@christo930 - The best place to go, offline, to read her works is the AA Center in Cranford, New Jersey. Info about it is at Atheists dot org slash library.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@christo930 It was 1970, it wasn't that unusual.
Clariccy 8 months ago
They were murdered by David Waters an his gang. It was four men in total, and Waters worked at AA until Madalyn fired him for massive theft. She did an investigation when the police refused, then when she gathered sufficient evidence, the police moved, and he was arrested, and prosecuted for the theft, and convicted, and ordered to pay restitution, which he faltered on and never totally repaid.
In the end, three of the gang were caught and brought to justice. This isn't about carelessness.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
@christo930 All three of these people worked their asses off for your civil right to be free from government imposed religion, in case you don't know. They sacrificed a lot too. There's a book called "The Atheist Epic" that details some pretty harsh Xian harassment they received just in the years leading up to the Supreme Court decision of 1963. Some of it's really shocking. Then after Robin was born, it became clear that working for our rights was their destiny. I respect that a lot.
aajoeyjo 9 months ago
Comment removed
christo930 9 months ago
115 priests promised to stop touching boys if they disliked the entire series.
truthIsStranger 1 year ago
Sounds like she didn't recieve much love from home at an early age because she was resentful of her mother and sometimes her father. She also looked very sad and still in grieving and disappointed when she mentioned how when we die, that's it! you can tell by the look on her face, she has a lot of sadness and heart ache pent up. So her way of coping and dealing with her disappointment and loss, is to try to rationalize her own feelings outwardly instead of dealing with them internally.
3Deditor 1 year ago
@3Deditor - What video did you watch?? Not the on you're commenting on, right?
Why focus on your perceived negativity, when obviously it is you who is so negative. Watch THIS video!
aajoeyjo 1 year ago
@aajoeyjo I watched all segments on her biography. everything's from pure observation. It's not negative. it's what I see in her outwardly expressions that are coming within the pain I see she was trying to hide when she spoke about death while interviewed on the talk show. One thing I understand well, is human behavior, needs, wants, expressions. People who find Joy in gardening and raising pets, usually felt great loss in life. Taking care of something, helps them to cope with the loss.
3Deditor 1 year ago
@3Deditor - It sounds mighty negative to me. I thought this movie showed her in a very positive light. She even tells a joke or two and laughs.
And who hasn't felt some great loss in their life, after living more than 50 years? Still, saying that people who find joy in gardening and raising pets usually felt great loss in life...that's quite a sweeping assumption. Some people dig around in a garden because it's fun. Can't it be that simple? She looked like she was having fun.
aajoeyjo 1 year ago
@aajoeyjo of course she was enjoying it. Didn't I say people find "Joy" in taking care of things and others because it helps them cope with the pain by helping them feel good about contributing to something. I can see a lot of unresolved resentment and anger hiding away within the tough outer exterior she portrayed to others. I also saw a vulnerable hurt child within her she was trying to protect. Everyone's got their strengths and weakness. Some people's are more noticeable than others.
3Deditor 1 year ago
@aajoeyjo I wonder how she would have answered these very statements "we can not change what we don't acknowledge" and "good predictor of future behavior, is by observing current behavior and looking back at the things that have caused us to deal with our emotions the way we have"
3Deditor 1 year ago
@3Deditor Wow, even your subconscious needs to warp your perception in order to boost your faith. I see you need to project your doubt onto other people. As a pastors son I have seen this time and time again over the last 30 years. Everything you fairy tale believers do is done to try to boost your own faith. Even when you witness to people you are doing it to try to out run that nagging doubt you have in the back of your mind.
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
@MrTruthAddict You're like other untrusting, skeptics I've spoken to in the past. You dealt with controlling parent( s) so you didn't know what to do with it. You feel trying to correct others, helps you feel some gained power back that was taken from you growing up. Try working on yourself first before giving any advice. Your own experience, foesn't apply to everyone. Remember, when you're doing within, you can do without.
3Deditor 1 year ago
Thanks for the lame psycho diagnosis but I am intimately familiar with your mental disorder. Ive seen it in hundreds of self-labeled Xtians. Xtianity appeals to people who don't want to take responsibility for themselves or their actions. This is why it is so popular in America's prison system. You can cast responsibility for all your evil deeds and shortcomings on a scapegoat (Jesus) and then go on living your life as if you are morally superior to others. It's a sick and immoral cult
MrTruthAddict 1 year ago
thank-you for posting. i miss her horribly. imagine if she had gotten the chance to work with the likes of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens.
86crud 1 year ago
"why does she say 'shootin the god damned bow'..."
I'm not sure whether you're silly enough for that to be an actual question, so I'll answer it anyway.
religion has been in humanity for centuries, it's why we have sayings like "god bless you" or "bloody hell," just like arabic language is full of references to allah.
when someone sneezes, I'll say "bless you" because it's traditional language, when something amazes me I might say "jesus christ!!"
yet I'm an atheist.
gavsmith1980 1 year ago
I just discovered this short film. Thanks for posting these vids. It was great to see another side to this woman than the one that the media paints of her.
voyzovrezon 2 years ago
I have discovered a new hero. I have great respect for one who will stand against all the troubles Madalyn has, to go forward with her beliefs. This is something our country should support and encourage, instead, most of her trobles were from the untied states government and christian myth club. She stood for freedom of individuality.
mikeandlaurie1979 2 years ago
hmm...i figured all along that she was an anarchist, and then she outright said it. It kinda bugs me that she kinda uses a definition of anarchy to describe atheism ("questioning EVERY kind of authority"), but they're all good ideas, so i guess labels are less important than the fact that they are both powerful ideas that fit together nicely.
Edengoth 2 years ago
Well questioning authority doesn't make you an anarchist, it is good to question, and ofc better to find answers. Quite surprised to see her being an anarchist, but I think she may have turned to that because of the way the government happens to be :S
TurboDally 2 years ago
Long live athetism, i will not force it to others, my children, or others, unlike relegious churches who offend many other relegions.
LovingThatPie 3 years ago
Great videos about a person who should be more widely known.
Cybersonic5 3 years ago
Wow, wonderful series, ty again aajoeyjo.
Canaximander 4 years ago
Not sure if i agree with the anarchist stance...
Mainly because, you think our freedoms as atheists are bad now? Imagine what it would be like if this were a anarchy *shudders*
The role of the government SHOULD be to protect the minority from the majority. Not to do the majorities bidding on the minority..
thefakeyeti 4 years ago
thefakeyeti--I basically agree. Madalyn was also an anarchist, and lots of Atheists are today, but not all. Besides, by "anarchism" I think most anarchists mean self-rule. There's some amount of rule in that, but not from any government. I guess that's it...
aajoeyjo 4 years ago
aw.. I know most atheists live by the stance of "If it hurts no one else, it should be legal" philosophy.
Ie.. I believe drugs should be legal, it's no place of the government to tell us what we can and cannot put in our bodies..
But I believe in taxes... (so Can't really say I am a anarchist)
thefakeyeti 4 years ago
Drugs are illegal because of some OTHER crimes wich tend to be related to them. For example muggings, thefts, break-ins and even murders are often comited by drug adicts trying to suport their habit.
Skulldini 3 years ago
Drugs are illegal because of racism, do the research.
NOT because cops requested them to be illegal, nor the medical field. But because a bunch racist politicians.. tHE reason why addicts have to break OTHER laws, is because drugs are artificially high in price.
if you legalize drugs. The prices will decrease, meaning they won't have to lie, cheat and steal for money to fund their addictions.
thefakeyeti 3 years ago
It is my belief, along with millions of others. That the war against drugs, does more harm then good..
I will go over more reasons, however if you are interested YOU can do the research. Try law enforcement against prohibition, leap(dot)cc
thefakeyeti 3 years ago
TYPO..
I would, not I will.
thefakeyeti 3 years ago
would you want to be a crack head? bet its fun isnt it? so legalize drugs, because crack is nice. NOTTTTTTTTTTTTT
shakaz01 3 years ago
So you believe the war on drugs makes people less likely to become addicted?
And makes it more pleasurable to be addicted?
Do you honestly believe prohibition makes society a safer more free society?
Cops, and politicians piss all over the constitution to protect you from you.. NOT GOOD.
thefakeyeti 3 years ago
Crack would not be legalized. Cocaine would.
ChelsieLyn 2 years ago
She wouldn't be able to speak like this in Muslim countries. She would be executed. This speaks against Islam and not O'Hair.
BeatBuddy 4 years ago
Beat---Correct. What makes it safe for us Atheists to say such things in public is the separation between government and religion. It's under attack, but I'm glad it's still there. It needs vigilant protection from those it protects as well. Call your Congresspersons! :o)
aajoeyjo 4 years ago
As I read the entire Qur'an, the whole boring book, I learned that the worst thing anyone can be is an atheist. There is this common misconception that Islamo"phobia." comes from the religious right. Some of the most articulate spokespersons against Islam come from atheist quarters, such as The Council for Secular Humanism.
BeatBuddy 4 years ago
I used to chum with an Iranian atheist who came here to study. When he returned to Iran, he had to go back into the closet, knowing that simply admitting to atheism would get him killed.
He told me of two relatives who were executed solely for owning Bibles. Well, I am an atheist and I own a Bible. The fact that this warrants the death penalty is chillingly absurd.
BeatBuddy 4 years ago
And I suppouse it is also neighbor vs neighbor, friends vs. friends, and family vs family.
To the point of being terrified to even tell your best friend because he may turn you in..
Scarry shit.
thefakeyeti 4 years ago
1984, a work of fiction, yet so real.
BeatBuddy 4 years ago