Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
Did Dr. Buckner say "hundreds of thousands of generations"?
I thought humans were only here for 10,000 years or so according to evolution. If each generation is 50 years, that would only make 200 generations at the most.
1. life span =/ generation. I'd estimate a matrilineal generation gap, as an average throughout human history, to be 18 years old. So 100,000 generations would be 1.8 million.
2. Human civilization and the rise of agriculture and husbandry started about 11,000 years ago (See Jared Diamond's 'Guns germs and steel' for a good intro here), and I think this may be the date that you picked up on. But humans have been around quite a bit longer than this.
3. The 'homo' genus is considered to be 2.5 million years old, and 'homo sapiens' as a species to be 500,000 years old. So 1.8 million years ago our ancestors would probably have been a bit 'homo erectus'y.
In conclusion, you're right, but your numbers are screwy! Where did Buckner say it?... then we can get some context.
People need to start debating beyond this and start talking about the actual concept of heaven and eternal life.Atheists needs to start looking at God at more than just a figure, but of time,nature, space all encompassed into one. If you really want to know the meaning of life and God, you need to start thinking about eternal life, how its possible, why so. Then you will understand what God is. And most religions dnt have a complete understanding of God either,
@lacossanostra - I'm not fighting him...He continually attacked with with a stream of gibberish... I told I'm not a Muslim several times but he seems unable to register that fact...Allying yourself with an idiot does more harm to you case then good.
Hamza is typical religious apologists - he indulges in word play like Lane-Craig but worse he heckles his opponent - a sign of a loosing the argument.
I fucking hate Hamza Tzoetzis....He's a salesman selling nothing...He hides behind a clever turn of phrase, but his arguments are completely vacuous and empty. They sound clever to the simple minded, but never rise above illogical strawmen.....Like " God is called wise, therefore we do not have to question evil, just believe in God.... I want to slap him!
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." [Einstein]
@lacossanostra God could prevent evil if he wanted to or even make all the humans a believer, but he didn't, because life is a test to see whether you virtuous or evil. You claimed to be an atheist yet suddenly you promote to believe in leprechaun. You miss are delusional. I have my logical assumption to believe in God which you didn't respond to very well and you just keep bringing the same argument all over again, but I don't blame you since you don't understand what the heck is going on.
@lacossanostra and based on what kind of logical reasoning you believe in leprechaun? leprechaun by definition is 'a type of fairy in Irish folklore, usually taking the form of an old man, clad in a red or green coat, who enjoys partaking in mischief'.
@lacossanostra One main problem is that you see god as a magical sky daddy. Once again it is not a person, it's more like a concept. If only your simple mind could understand it.
Again you are throwing red herring by deviating from the topic. My 7 arguments still stand. Where are your rebuttals?
I guess you are going to continue with the usual mundane and severely lacking in creativity replies. I never would have thought that fixing stupid is this arduous.
@lacossanostra Where does the Qur'an says that he is a father? None. Sometimes God refers himself as We, or he. So the point is it is not masculine or feminine. As I have said before sometimes we refer to the Earth as a she. But that does not make the Earth a woman. Just because you say it that doesn't make it a fact. You will still bring up the old argument, which I have rebutted long back and still claim that I haven't. I seriously doubt that you even understand what I am saying at all.
@lacossanostra I don't really know much about other religion, but the Qur'an remained unchanged throughout the ages and the basic principles and beliefs remained the same.
There is no 0.0, zero is just zero. Not only you suck at English, apparently Math is not your cup of tea either.
hello my name is pluzi and iam a MUSLIM not because i know what the quran says but because my parents indoctrinated me with islam like the also got indoctrinated by there parrents ect
Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know.first stupid mistake I don't have time to read and examine it carefully but yet you are a MUSLIMS AND YOU ARE PROOD TO BE A MUSLIMS
wel wel it isn't surprising me, this is typical islamic stupidity
@lacossanostra Man,how much do you know about Islam.A true Muslim would always read the Qur'an and know his religion.PARENTS CANNOT MAKE YOU MUSLIM.If that was so then Noah's son would have been a Muslim.I just don't get it.How is it such complex creations such as the universe,we human,birds,mammals etc can be created without a creator.How arrogant can you be to say that all these complex creations are natural process.A car must have a creator but a universe can't.Open your eyes.
@lacossanostra You got a very good point.If you read the Quran Allah says in it that He doesn't have any partner.If He had so there would have been chaos.Thus He concludes He is the end of creators and all knowledgable.I didn't deny that Allah is abstract.So we must know Him as much as He said.Ofcourse He possess the hidden knowledge.Allah said all evolution is within His knowledge.But this evolution from monkeys does not make any sense and is also against Quran.
@lacossanostra Just having a tail bone doesn't mean that we have evolved from monkeys!Why is it that human and monkeys are living together for ages in the jungles and yet so different?If we had evolved from monkeys then there would not have been a broken chain.The most important part for which heaven and hell makes sense is regarding consciousness.Why is it that monkeys lack consciousness and they don't want to improve their standard of life.These are all based on observations.
@lacossanostra If you consider intelligence.It is difficult to match.Monkeys don't talk or learn that easily as human.Monkeys can climb trees while human can't.There are many other broken chains.They are sexually open while we can control our desires.Human beings evolved like people in the polar regions are bigger.African people are generally stronger etc because of the enviroment.But evolve from monkeys is way too complex to believe in.May the Creator guide you.
@lacossanostra Secondly,the holy Quran does give a brief description about the big bang.I read the Quran and analysed those verses.They clearly refer to the big bang.You believe it or not that's upto you.If you haven't read the verses I can help you in that case.Finally if God doesn't make any sense to you then we will see who is right in the afterlife(you believe in it or not).I am just a warner to you and a servant of Allah.
I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments
REALLY didt you forgot how you started to argu with me !! you made question after question and i replyed on it until i was fed up when you did not replyed on my questions
you also try to disprove me with every remark that i made without any contens that disproved my remarks
muslims need to sort out muslims first converts get confused wen they come in to islam we as muslims must read and educate are self well may Allah bless hamza and reward him for his good
This whole debate is an intellectual dead end...On the quantum level there is no such things as "nothing" and particles are popping in and out of existence all the time...If nothing existed before God then what did he use to create the universe with? To say God magic, or he willed it into existence explains a big fat 0...
hmmm, but the on hearing Ed Buckner, I'm not sure why he was brought in to debate...I'd never heard of him, and it's clear he's not a natural debater. He hasn't studied Islam, and he does make some sprawling generalizations with relatively little to back it up....I am in agreement with him, but think there are millions of better atheist debaters out there.
I just about made it through Hamza's babbling intro...He starts with a strawman about atheism., adds pure conjecture then after some logical fumbling, contradicts his own point....The fact he can even use the word logic in the same sentence as he rest of his nonsense shows the cognitive separation required for religion.
@@lacossanostra - What I hear is - It's got four legs and it's not a dog, therefore logically it must be a cat...I don't know who Ed Buckner is, but he should have picked up on the absurdity of Hamza's reasoning .
i almost pissed my pants when i see what this douchbag named hamza talking to Richard Dawkins or to Pz Meyers, video called PZ Myers pwns Hamza Tzortzis & Adnan Rashid
14:30 in, I don't accept that in order for something to happen will is needed. Who wills cells to become cancerous in a child's brain? Who wills arsenic (a natural substance) to be poisonous to humans? Who wills the HIV virus to come into being? There's no will, it's chaos. I think anybody who believes they have been told or have worked out the entire universe is either misguided or lying. I'm afraid it just probably won't happen in our lifetime. It would be sad if it was so easy wouldn't it?
@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
@lacossanostra wow the use of ad hominem attacks are way too overused now. Scientists made those assumption, so why is it wrong for making that assumption? I don't criticise your assumptions that there is absolutely no God. However, I am just trying to give you a different point of view. Whether you want to agree with it or not it is up to you. Your insults are only going to hurt your own reputation, not mine.
I don't criticise your assumptions that there is absolutely no God. However, I am just trying to give you a different point of view. Whether you want to agree with it or not it is up to you. Your insults are only going to hurt your own reputation, not mine
really!! sind when iam i a atheist who doesnt beleive in a god
i never said anything like that
your the one who claims allah exists because you are brought up in a muslim fam and being indoctrinated with islam and follows islam
@lacossanostra Hawking made an assumption that the universe can come into existence by itself, I never said he claimed that there is a chance that God may or may not exist. Why do you insist that I should not believe in God? I think my reasons for believing in God are logical enough. If you believe the assumption that Hawking made, I am also fine with it. But when you insulted me because I held on to my views, then we have a problem here. We are here to discuss not insult one another.
Why do you insist that I should not believe in God? I think my reasons for believing in God are logical enough. If you believe the assumption that Hawking made, I am also fine with it
so because your parent and there parents ect beleived were indoctrinated with islam it wouldt be logical enough for you to to assume god exist LOL
and sec sience proved more about the earth and everything around it than all the religions together
@lacossanostra I am not attacking any atheist or agnostic. I am here to discuss with them and respect their point of view. Unlike you, who is trying to shove a/an theory/ideology down my throat. I do agree that I don't have a solid evidence, but I do believe based on logical reasoning, and I think that is reasonable enough for me. Whether you agree with it or not, that's up to you.
@pluz93 I do agree that I don't have a solid evidence, but I do believe based on logical reasoning, and I think that is reasonable enough for me
NO shit sherlock!! so you just shove away all the errors and contradictions that are in the quran tora bible (cherry picking) and than made the conclusion that its plain logic to beleive what the quran bible and thora claim
@lacossanostra I see some improvements in your English, which is a good sign. Although I doubt that you wrote those last 2 comments. This discussion is about God, not religion and not me. So you whether the Qur'an has contradiction or not, I do not know and I don't really care and besides that is not the point. I don't see the point in discussing when we are talking about 2 different things. You scouted my arguments without even examining the logical reasoning behind it.
This discussion is about God, not religion and not me well thats a wierd claim because your god does exists because of your relgion conclusion without religion no god !!
you dont care of the quran contians errors but yet you claim to be a muslim
it shows perfectly how stupid and indoctrinated you are about your believe and about your relgion
religion issent bassed on logical reasoning its bassed on beleive and nothing else
@lacossanostra Wow, no rebuttal of my arguments at all. It is truly remarkable how you managed to dodge all my arguments with your barrage of insults. Also, I can also give you many scientists who believes in God (e.g Issac Newton, Max planck). Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know. I don't have time to read and examine it carefully because I've got a lot of studying to do for college.
hello my name is pluzi and iam a MUSLIM not because i know what the quran says but because my parrents indoctrinated me with islam like the also got indoctrinated by there parrents ect
Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know.first stupid mistake I don't have time to read and examine it carefully but yet you are a MUSLIMS AND YOU ARE PROOD TO BE A MUSLIMS
wel wel it isn't surprising me, this is typical islamic stupidity
@lacossanostra I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments, which explains all the insults here. You could not answer and that is why you are just cussing your way out of the arguments. Also where did you get the 99.9 percent figure from? I checked the stats online, from pewforum and livescience website stated that roughly about 40-60% believed in God or higher power. Wow, you're dumb and desperate.
I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments
REALLY didt you forgot how you started to argu with me !! you made question after question and i replyed on it until i was fed up when you did not replyed on my questions
you also tryed to disprove me with every remark that i made
@lacossanostra Those are rebutalls my friend. I say something which invalidate your arguments. I was just asking you about whether or not there is a possibility that God might exist, since you are an atheist, your stance is that God absolutely does not exist. So I am just telling you why I believe in God and give you another perspective. I don't intend to shove any Ideology down your throat.
@lacossanostra one last thing, I didn't cherry pick from the Qur'an at all. I mean that is the only surah which gives the description of God. I also picked up some of Aristotle's reason for believing that there is a God. About your opinions about the prophet, I can give you the names of non-muslim scholars who disagree with your view (e.g William Watt and Michael Hart). So just because you think so, does not make it a fact.
quote; one last thing, I didn't cherry pick from the Qur'an at all. I mean that is the only surah which gives the description of God
Answer; No it issent!! i have only mentioned those two just to prove it !
quote; I also picked up some of Aristotle's reason for believing that there is a God
answer; Aristotle's errors are considered by many sientists to have held back science considerably. so why wouldt i believe him that your chimary exist
@lacossanostra Quote 'Aristotle's errors are considered by many sientists to have held back science considerably'. You copy pasted it from Wikipedia. You replaced 'some', with 'scientist'. You didn't analyze his logic, you are just merely agreeing to the views of some people which may not be correct. Also you said 'No it issent!! i have only mentioned those two just to prove it!'. What are 'those two' you mentioned there?
@lacossanostra Let me also quote from Wikipedia about Aristotle. It is under the Legacy section, 'Aristotle was the founder of formal logic, pioneered the study of zoology, and left every future scientist and philosopher in his debt through his contributions to the scientific method'.
@lacossanostra Actually, come to think of it, you did wrote last two comments.
And yes you did try to shove an Ideology down my throat and trying to make me feel bad for not agreeing with you. Besides, what's wrong with being indoctrinated with Islam? It keeps me out of trouble and I have benefited from it.
look at the animosity in most of your comments. But If it makes you feel happy, go ahead and unleash another torrent of your insults.
you did try to shove an Ideology down my throat and trying to make me feel bad
No it isn't, you can close your pc or ignore me, iam not forcing you like your prophet mohammed (piss be on him) didt this by oppressing islam to non muslims with violance
sec atheisme is bassed on facts not on a ideologie that is bassed on beleive
keep hidding behind the so called iam a victem of verbal abusse by an atheist
read the ideology from your quran and see what it says about me the infidel
@lacossanostra and seriously what are these 'facts' you keep saying? you didn't give me anything, yet you are so persistent about it. In my opinion, whether God exist or not we don't really know for sure. We don't really have the means to prove that he exists or not. So you choose, whether there is or there is not. I believe I have shown you the reason why I belief logically. So whether you accept it or not that's your problem, you don't have to make me feel bad for doing what I do.
according to pulz its impossible that things come to existence but yet is not impossible for a god to suddenly came to existence out of nothing
its shows perfectly the one way street of pulzi
its also a FACT that the quran contains many errors and contradictions but yet pluzi claims it doesent matter if it does he is not looking at those mistakes
@lacossanostra Well we don't know if God suddenly just 'pop' into existence or not. We all agree that the Universe started with the big bang, which means it has a starting point. God by definition, does not have a starting point. So we have to stick to the definition here. Whether that being exist or not, we don't really know for sure. But I have good and logical reasons to believe in him just like Aristotle, Isaac Newton and Max Planck did.
Well we don't know if God suddenly just 'pop' into existence or not. We all agree that the Universe started with the big bang
No you dont, the big bang issent in your quran the big bang is denyed by many religous people but accepted more and more because of all the evidence that the big bang happend
many religious people suddenly accept the big bang and try to prove/convince others that it was god who made it happend
@lacossanostra Yes the big bang is in the Qur'an. Refer to verse 21:31. Also aristotle arguments about the existence of God is compatible with Christianity and Islam. So I can legitimately use his argument without deviating from the argument.
about your big bang in the quran mmwauuh you funny and stupid at the same time
check out the video from my friend philhellness video called Re: Re: Re: Creation of the Big Bang
its a perfect explaination of the stupidity and ignorand remarks/claims done religous people that the big bang is mentioned in the quran or other religous books
@lacossanostra Look I don't intend to make you my enemy, but you just keep insulting me that I had to retaliate with disrespect. I think we should end this thing, I am sure you don't want to waste your life arguing with some douchebag online, right? Besides I have to study for my polymer fabrication finals tomorrow. Good bye and all the best in your life. :D
@lacossanostra Whether it has mistakes or not I'm not really sure. I'll read it up during semester break.
and Yes I am stupid. That is why I go to college, earning my degree, so that I can learn something and be good at it. But I know for sure I am smarter than you. I mean you are not in the position to call people stupid when yourself could not even spell properly. I've seen 7 year old spell better than you. Wow, you really are pathetic. :D
@lacossanostra Yes that but that is only one organisation. You have to take a look at the others as well, like the ones I gave you. And you were lying, the stats which you gave me is way too exageratted.
@lacossanostra I am not imposing anything onto you, and I merely trying to express what I believe without offending you, If I am, along the way, I am truly sorry. And I ask you to do the same thing. I respect your views and I expect the same thing from you. If not then we should not discuss any further. Again about your attacks on the prophet(saw), there are many non-muslim scholars (e.g William Watt) who extolled him for his character and achievements. So your attempts to malign him is futile.
@lacossanostra About the fighting infidel part, all those verses are linked to the verse 22:39. Besides if those were supposed to be taken literally, those coptic christians in Egypt would be dead by now.
@pluz93 by whom i believe you and our bro in islamic country...if u were there and against there will,are u follow what they say or not..like for example this is your plan do the suicide bomb in embassy..are u going there or not? in the name of allah
@aliens301 Why should I risk my life to do that? They didn't do anything to harm me, so why on earth should I kill them? If some people are persuading me to do such violent acts, I will call the police immediately.
@lacossanostra So, what they did was a felony. They SHOULD be punished by the law. The coptic christians have been together with the Muslims for centuries, they should be gone by now if the killings are justified according to the verses. But NO they are not. Another example, the Bali Bombing mastermind. He was prosecuted for his actions in Indonesia, a Muslim majority country. If the context of the verses are true, He won't be prosecuted at all, in fact he will be praised by the whole country.
@lacossanostra No you have not prove me wrong. If the context of those verses are like that. Al-Azhar University would issue an official order to kill all non-muslims in Egypt. Do we see that? no we don't. Those killings were not supported by the state, and yes they SHOULD be punished. By the way in Islamic law, if one kill innocent person on purpose and does not feel remorseful, that person will be sentenced to death.
@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
Umm, the universe started with the Big Bang. The age of the universe is counted from the time that big bang happened until now.
therefore your point has't been proven
not one sientist claims the earth has a biginning
the say it might be 50/50 chanche
its no suprise that your staying with your claim, but everybody can see that your claim is bassed on a 50/50 chanche and that you also take the words from dawkins out of context for you own benifite/beleive
if you want to refer to steven hawking than i say to you this
Steven Hawking's actual stance on the subject has changed. He argues that the Hawking-Hartle no boundary proposal (which is a way to compute the wavefunction of the universe) can be interpreted to mean that the universe had a beginning and still was not created
hello iam pluz93 i believe in a magical sky daddy!!!
i dont know if he is a he, aldo the quran clearly says HE
many people made fun about the HE and father form so that why i suddenly claim allah issent a he but an entity LOL
i just made up that he is an entity the reaon behind it is because with the main knowledge its impossible to disprove my man made allah, aka magical sky daddy, aka imaginary friend
i'll go, i have to pray and worship my god otherwiss he is going to send me to hell
@lacossanostra Again, you keep saying that God is a he. NO it is not. You do now that sometimes we refer a country as a she. Even the Earth sometimes is considered a she. But is the Earth a she in reality, NO it is not. So you have some serious language issue. Also, I have explained to you clearly that Magical sky daddy and God is 2 different things. Where is my rebuttal on that one? Never mind. Just go to school.
again keep avoiding the facts about theo van gogh or about Hamza Kashgari
about And I did answer your question. I even explained my arguments which are: why I believed in God (first cause), definition of God, the universe has a beginning, something cannot comes out of nothing (except God
Really like i said before your wrong see spacefoam
something cannot comes out of nothing (except God)
Your wrong again, my yellow invisible leprechaun does
@pluz93 Again, you keep saying that God is a he. NO it is not. You do now that sometimes we refer a country as a she. Even the Earth sometimes is considered a she. But is the Earth a she in reality, NO it is not. So you have some serious language issue
yeah blame it on my englisch language but its you who claims god is and entity but the funny part is why talk about he when you ment god is an entity
how hard can it be to just write down what you ment instead of he father ect
@lacossanostra Seriously? That is your answer? do you even know what it means? Of course language plays an important role in explaining my point which makes your invalidate your arguments. Once again God is not a he or a she. It is not a human. It does not have shape and form. Like energy for example, it is neither female nor male. It does not take form or shapes. So God is something like that, not a 'magical sky daddy'.
@lacossanostra Let me also explain how arguing works. You give your views, and I am supposed to rebut you. I have come up with a few arguments to rebut your previous statements, so now you have to rebut me back. When one can't counter another's argument, that person loses. Do you understand how it works now?
Let me also explain how arguing works. You give your views, and I am supposed to rebut you. I have come up with a few arguments to rebut your previous statements
you know how it works so why aint you stick to the rules than !!
you kept holding your monoloog and call it an argumment and failed to answer my questions and lie that you didt
like i said everybody can read my questions and the lack of answers from your side
@lacossanostra I did stick to the rules, You don't. All you did is ranting about how I supposedly not answer your question. When in fact I did. I explain everything about the POSSIBILITY of the existence of God and What God Actually is and Also I explain that the Universe has a beginning which counter your arguments. Now it is YOUR turn to give me the logical refutation of my arguments. But I guess it's pointless, because you probably don't understand anything at all. Go back to school, cretin.
@lacossanostra Umm, the universe started with the Big Bang. The age of the universe is counted from the time that big bang happened until now. Therefore proves my point. You quoted Hawking's proposal. It is still a proposal, and I doubt that it has been proven. Thus, that does not eliminate the chance of God's existence. I am not avoiding your question here, is just that his proposal is not absolute, so my claim still stands.
@pluz93 hey im ex muslim...i read all the comments..your not smart enough to debate ..you cant prove it with facts..all of u muslim diffrent interpretation
@aliens301 Hello ex-Muslim, I am here not to shove any ideology down anyone's throat. I was discussing about the POSSIBILITY of God's existence. Whether it is different interpretation from other Muslims, I will always support my claims based on the Qur'an itself. I am no scholar and that is my perspective, so any mistake/false claims are regretted.
@pluz93 bro every religion can claim that god is exiist but no evidence..for me as a ex muslim, base of my experience and evidence god,allah,demons,angels,jinns are exist..i believe in quran bible and book of enoch,sumerian which is older than the quran and bible.the only problem all religion is understanding ..im embrace science than the quran and bible.muslim made a big mistake to kill infidels..in islamic country christian, other even muslim was tortured and killed..pls respect other religion
@pluz93 yes not all muslim,christian,jews are bad but if u live islamic country with or with out sharia law its totally diffrent..look what happen to UK,riot..then someday it will happen her ein u.s. if they grow more..look the news what happen to nigeria bombing in church,philippines maasacre 60-80 people,egypt tortured all christian and etc...its better there is no religion,changed it,wanna live but respect all religion
@aliens301 you gotta tell it to them. Those people who caused the riot are in jail now. So, please don't blame what happened there on me. I didn't do anything.
@rogan71 In my opinion, the radicals are those people who take the verses out of context. I mean come on, if those fighting verses are to be taken literally without any context, the world would be at war by now, and those coptic christians in egypt would be wiped out by now.
@pluz93 - Well, I read the Quran and the only context I could find in it was one of fear and terror. 90% of it is instilling hate and mistrust of the unbeliever, and fear of an incredibly unlikable and unreasonable God.
The Mullah Omars of this world are reading the same words as you, and possibly with better Arabic and contextual understanding....I appreciate most Muslims are not violent, but the context is there if they choose to be....
@pluz93 - Well, I can't be sure of the exact % but open the Quran randomly and you'll find threats of hell and an almost obsessive hatred of the unbelievers....I could ask you what parts are radical Muslims twisting? You can't twist Jainism to be violent, why can you with Islam?
@rogan71 I'm not really familiar with Jainism, so I can't really help you with that. As for Islam, in my opinion the influence came from the people and not really the Qur'an itself. As I have said before, if the context of the verses are to kill any infidel, the Islamic states would have issued an official order for all the Muslims in the country to kill infidel. Do we see that? No we don't. Also the fighting verses are related to the verse 22:39.
@pluz93 - So the violent verses in the Quran played no part in influencing the behavior of it's followers? To me that is incredibly delusional.
Jainism is an actual religion of peace, where it's impossible for it's followers to harm a living thing - almost to the point of mania...Islam is not a religion of peace as it has conflict at it's core...It's not that the violence isn't in context, it's that it's there at all... Are instructions on how to beat your wife really necessary?
@rogan71 Well honestly, I don't really know how those extremists justify their acts according to the Qur'an. I'm not one of them and certainly the scholars of Islam do not interpret the meaning like they do.
Now for the treatment of women. Well, beating is wrong. But if by using physical force (slight) can save your marriage why not? The purpose is for discipline only, not to get what you want out of her. Of course, that does not mean you beat your wife each time she disobey you. Sometimes, domestic violence is inevitable, if one man has to be incarcerated when he, say slapped her, out of frustration, a LOT of people are going to prison. In US alone 1 in 4 Women experienced some sort of...
@rogan71 ... domestic violence. Assuming that there is 150 million women in US, that would be about 30 million women and 30 million perpetrators. Imagine what incarcerating every person who committed those acts would do to the country. Of course there is limit that one should not transgress, such as: must not cause severe pain, should not hit the head or the body. Also hitting is the last resort if she persisted her disobedience. The husband also must not resolve every single thing with violence
@rogan71 and mediators from both family should also come and help to resolve the matter.
So to conclude, beating is wrong and everyone should refrain from it. But if is done to restore order and used as the last resort, then why not? Also the undesirable act should be done without transgressing the limit prescribed. You should also know that the foundation of Islam is based on the 5 pillars and 6 beliefs. All of them got nothing to do with violence.
As I have said before, watch the movie 'the message' or 'Muhammad the last prophet' here on youtube. It is a good start to learn something about Islam.
@pluz93 - "It is a good start to learn something about Islam" - I studied Islam to degree level...Why do Muslims always assume that non-Muslims need educating?...Look.. Physically beating your wife is wrong in any circumstance, as is slavery. If you need to contextualize these very simple premises, then the message is flawed.
@rogan71 Well I am sorry then, I assume you are taking a course on comparative religion. I not trying to belittle you in any sort of ways. In that case the extra information on those movies which I recommend might help. The message needs to be contextualized so that people don't abused it for their own benefits. I do agree completely that slavery is wrong. Violence is also wrong, but if they are done to for good reasons and does not transgress the limit, why not?
@rogan71 In addition to that, so are you saying that those 30 million people in the US who have used any physical force against their women should be jailed? Even if they have resolved the matter in their own hands? once again I have to stress that violence is wrong and shameful, but if the purpose behind it is good and it does not transgress limit, why not? by the way the verse which regards to the beating is 4:34. Take a look by yourself.
@lacossanostra Wow, you still want to debate. That video that you showed me is just an opinion not a proof. And seriously have you not heard of the Ottoman Empire? Islamic Golden Age? Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī? and you posted the same comments for like 3 times. What is it that you want? Do you want to make me spoil my day by insulting me relentlessly? Well have it your way. I've got better things to do.
yes and al the knowledge came from !!! correct sumairs greeks and romans
you keep makking me smile everytime you try to make a point
sec yes i made 3 times the same comment because you keep avoiding it
and about having a debate with you well that will nver work because you going to keep your monologue and keep hidding behing the stupid remark that i insult you
You cant deal with facts, thats why you are calling yourself a victim and blame it on the so called insults
Firstly, 3 same comments about insult, not rebuttal at all. So you your arguments are still not valid.
Secondly, we do know that a car has a creator, but we don't know whether the universe is caused or uncaused.
Thirdly, I can deal with facts, that is why I don't hide my insecurities by talking gibberish and belittle the opinions of others like you. It does not make you right either, you are just deceiving yourself into believing that you are right.
insults!! well its how you interpet my remarks like i said you keep denying and avoiding so its no option to have a debate with a person like you who got insulted by every fact i use
so its oke for you to claim the god(father,he the almighty) has alsways been there but its no option for particals been there without god LOL were is your proof of allah
@lacossanostra God is never a father or a he or a she or a they. Until now, you still don't really know what a God is. I am not here to proof anything, I am merely telling you why I believe based on logical assumption. God by definition has always been there. The universe however, may or may not be. As I have said before, the big bang shows that there is a high possibility than it has a beginning.
@lacossanostra Do you know what assumption mean? or logic? or theology? God you are hopeless. I am just sick and tired of explaining my arguments. I have explained it before in the comments section and you deviated from the arguments then come back to ask the same old shit again. I rather study for my exam. You know, school is probably not the place for you. You should try the hospital, because your brain is seriously messed up. If not just go jump off a building.
@lacossanostra How do you disprove my argument that the big bang does not give a high possibility that the universe has a beginning? How does the the big bang shows that 'the big bang shows that for example that whe diddent made by your god who made a man and women'?
Fourthly, da svidanya is the phonetical spelling of Good bye of Russian language in alphabet.
Fifth, God does not appear out of nothing, it has always been there by definition, but the universe however, we do not know for sure. But the Big bang theory suggests that it has a starting point.
Sixth, complex creations are natural processes, we know how it happened but we don't know the driving force so as to why it happened. It does not prove that God does not exist
@lacossanostra Wow, your stupidity is beyond human comprehension. 'до свидания' is pronounced as 'do svidaniya', which means 'good bye' in Russian. What do you mean by not good enough? It is what it is. And where is my rebuttal to my 7 points, instead you bring up the prophet which is not even the subject of the discussion. And yes the slanders were sprinkled all over your comments. Please go back to school and learn some proper manners.
Wow, your stupidity is beyond human comprehension. 'до свидания' is pronounced as 'do svidaniya', which means 'good bye' in Russian. What do you mean by not good enough
phonetic issent a language so its no good mister
your the one who attacks me on my english grammar but its oke for you to wrote down word in a phonetic way
it shows again that you cant deal with hypocrisy and self reflection
@lacossanostra Well you are the one who started it. I tried being polite, but you are just pushing it to my limit. Do you know what phonetic means? and it has got to do with language. Well clearly you don't. So your comments didn't make sense at all.
Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
tigersforchrist 4 days ago
@tigersforchrist
Not only does this debate have nothing to do with you but you also have given no proof of any of your claims then ended by threatening people.
HobbsO 3 days ago
@tigersforchrist jesus christ would jump off his cross and slap u across the face if he was alive today
callmetoro 5 hours ago
I am a muslim and even I admit that Muslim was quiet offensive.
arabjin666 5 days ago
Did Dr. Buckner say "hundreds of thousands of generations"?
I thought humans were only here for 10,000 years or so according to evolution. If each generation is 50 years, that would only make 200 generations at the most.
bl4kesp3ncer 1 week ago
@bl4kesp3ncer
Couple of problems here:
1. life span =/ generation. I'd estimate a matrilineal generation gap, as an average throughout human history, to be 18 years old. So 100,000 generations would be 1.8 million.
2. Human civilization and the rise of agriculture and husbandry started about 11,000 years ago (See Jared Diamond's 'Guns germs and steel' for a good intro here), and I think this may be the date that you picked up on. But humans have been around quite a bit longer than this.
josephdorrell 1 week ago
@bl4kesp3ncer
3. The 'homo' genus is considered to be 2.5 million years old, and 'homo sapiens' as a species to be 500,000 years old. So 1.8 million years ago our ancestors would probably have been a bit 'homo erectus'y.
In conclusion, you're right, but your numbers are screwy! Where did Buckner say it?... then we can get some context.
josephdorrell 1 week ago
an hour in so far, and I haven't heard anything about islam specifically, so this debate seems more like atheism vs theism in general.
bl4kesp3ncer 1 week ago
I love it when God becomes the subject of debates between humans. Retard humans!
TheCheckyourself 1 week ago
People need to start debating beyond this and start talking about the actual concept of heaven and eternal life.Atheists needs to start looking at God at more than just a figure, but of time,nature, space all encompassed into one. If you really want to know the meaning of life and God, you need to start thinking about eternal life, how its possible, why so. Then you will understand what God is. And most religions dnt have a complete understanding of God either,
RagingUtai 1 week ago
Human made by nature?
OHH HOW COME THIS NATURE KILL HER CHILDREN BY CAUSING NATURE DISASTERS HEH?.
oh wait how come this nature couldn't make a car wich is more less complex then human. why u accept that car made by human and not by nature?
MrTechach 2 weeks ago
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y encompassed etc... We can learn about His existence
mmwuuahh he doesn't exists !! its your imaginairy friend
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
Good Debate :)
humanadvice 2 weeks ago
@aliens301 and rogan71
please dont fight eachother, the two of you are clearly both atheists
so please concentrate yourself on debunking believers/muslim ect with facts
kind regards lacosanostra
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra i dont know this guy,he is the one started..for me its ok..i just focus against my islam
aliens301 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra - I'm not fighting him...He continually attacked with with a stream of gibberish... I told I'm not a Muslim several times but he seems unable to register that fact...Allying yourself with an idiot does more harm to you case then good.
rogan71 2 weeks ago
Hamza is typical religious apologists - he indulges in word play like Lane-Craig but worse he heckles his opponent - a sign of a loosing the argument.
freddie321123 2 weeks ago
I fucking hate Hamza Tzoetzis....He's a salesman selling nothing...He hides behind a clever turn of phrase, but his arguments are completely vacuous and empty. They sound clever to the simple minded, but never rise above illogical strawmen.....Like " God is called wise, therefore we do not have to question evil, just believe in God.... I want to slap him!
rogan71 2 weeks ago 2
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." [Einstein]
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
allah issent that almighty
He made the devil (djin) but cant defeat him or even protect his creation the humans from his failure called the angel djinn
by the way you never disproved that the almighty yellow invisible leprechaun made everything
the almighty yellow invisible leprechaun made everthing !! disprove me please??
the almighty yellow invisible leprechaun is just bassed on logical assumption!! :)
why is it so hard for you accept this
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra pluz cant accept the truth
aliens301 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra God could prevent evil if he wanted to or even make all the humans a believer, but he didn't, because life is a test to see whether you virtuous or evil. You claimed to be an atheist yet suddenly you promote to believe in leprechaun. You miss are delusional. I have my logical assumption to believe in God which you didn't respond to very well and you just keep bringing the same argument all over again, but I don't blame you since you don't understand what the heck is going on.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra and based on what kind of logical reasoning you believe in leprechaun? leprechaun by definition is 'a type of fairy in Irish folklore, usually taking the form of an old man, clad in a red or green coat, who enjoys partaking in mischief'.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
how is it possible to claim somthing that you never saw never met or never has been proven
its a typical fairytale without any proof other than the horrible claims and crimes done by mohammed
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra One main problem is that you see god as a magical sky daddy. Once again it is not a person, it's more like a concept. If only your simple mind could understand it.
Again you are throwing red herring by deviating from the topic. My 7 arguments still stand. Where are your rebuttals?
I guess you are going to continue with the usual mundane and severely lacking in creativity replies. I never would have thought that fixing stupid is this arduous.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
One main problem is that you see god as a magical sky daddy. Once again it is not a person
bla bla bla your quran doesn't state that allah issent a magical sky daddy the quran speaks about he the almighty father ect
NOWHERE the quran says allah is an entity like yuo try to claim
you talk about rebuttals and argument but yet you fail to give them
your talking about stupidity, lol if whe look at the islamic progress and the non islamic progress do i need to draw it for you !
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Where does the Qur'an says that he is a father? None. Sometimes God refers himself as We, or he. So the point is it is not masculine or feminine. As I have said before sometimes we refer to the Earth as a she. But that does not make the Earth a woman. Just because you say it that doesn't make it a fact. You will still bring up the old argument, which I have rebutted long back and still claim that I haven't. I seriously doubt that you even understand what I am saying at all.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
it a fact that god/religion has been through a evolution of improvements done by beleivers to make there god undeniable
there is 0.0 proof of god, its always been bassed on believe and nothing else
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra I don't really know much about other religion, but the Qur'an remained unchanged throughout the ages and the basic principles and beliefs remained the same.
There is no 0.0, zero is just zero. Not only you suck at English, apparently Math is not your cup of tea either.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluzi
hello my name is pluzi and iam a MUSLIM not because i know what the quran says but because my parents indoctrinated me with islam like the also got indoctrinated by there parrents ect
Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know.first stupid mistake I don't have time to read and examine it carefully but yet you are a MUSLIMS AND YOU ARE PROOD TO BE A MUSLIMS
wel wel it isn't surprising me, this is typical islamic stupidity
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Man,how much do you know about Islam.A true Muslim would always read the Qur'an and know his religion.PARENTS CANNOT MAKE YOU MUSLIM.If that was so then Noah's son would have been a Muslim.I just don't get it.How is it such complex creations such as the universe,we human,birds,mammals etc can be created without a creator.How arrogant can you be to say that all these complex creations are natural process.A car must have a creator but a universe can't.Open your eyes.
shahrukhalam1012 2 weeks ago
@shahrukhalam1012
A car must have a creator but a universe can't
But its oke for you to claim allah suddenly appeared from nothing issent it :)
Can you be to say that all these complex creations are natural process
Tell me what is the purpose of goose bumps or why do you got a tailbone !!
Its funny that pluzi claim to be a muslim like u but he claims the bigbang is in the quran and with it the evolution but your denying all this
funny to see the opposite between muslims who claim :)
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra You got a very good point.If you read the Quran Allah says in it that He doesn't have any partner.If He had so there would have been chaos.Thus He concludes He is the end of creators and all knowledgable.I didn't deny that Allah is abstract.So we must know Him as much as He said.Ofcourse He possess the hidden knowledge.Allah said all evolution is within His knowledge.But this evolution from monkeys does not make any sense and is also against Quran.
shahrukhalam1012 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Just having a tail bone doesn't mean that we have evolved from monkeys!Why is it that human and monkeys are living together for ages in the jungles and yet so different?If we had evolved from monkeys then there would not have been a broken chain.The most important part for which heaven and hell makes sense is regarding consciousness.Why is it that monkeys lack consciousness and they don't want to improve their standard of life.These are all based on observations.
shahrukhalam1012 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra If you consider intelligence.It is difficult to match.Monkeys don't talk or learn that easily as human.Monkeys can climb trees while human can't.There are many other broken chains.They are sexually open while we can control our desires.Human beings evolved like people in the polar regions are bigger.African people are generally stronger etc because of the enviroment.But evolve from monkeys is way too complex to believe in.May the Creator guide you.
shahrukhalam1012 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Secondly,the holy Quran does give a brief description about the big bang.I read the Quran and analysed those verses.They clearly refer to the big bang.You believe it or not that's upto you.If you haven't read the verses I can help you in that case.Finally if God doesn't make any sense to you then we will see who is right in the afterlife(you believe in it or not).I am just a warner to you and a servant of Allah.
shahrukhalam1012 2 weeks ago
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I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments
REALLY didt you forgot how you started to argu with me !! you made question after question and i replyed on it until i was fed up when you did not replyed on my questions
you also try to disprove me with every remark that i made without any contens that disproved my remarks
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
muslims need to sort out muslims first converts get confused wen they come in to islam we as muslims must read and educate are self well may Allah bless hamza and reward him for his good
gtiofounder 3 weeks ago
This whole debate is an intellectual dead end...On the quantum level there is no such things as "nothing" and particles are popping in and out of existence all the time...If nothing existed before God then what did he use to create the universe with? To say God magic, or he willed it into existence explains a big fat 0...
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71
...If nothing existed before God then what did he use to create
ill bet religious people would claim that he god is the almighty alknowing wonderfull ect so therefore he is able to create something from nothing
its also a fact that he created many errors for example his own creation called evil
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
hmmm, but the on hearing Ed Buckner, I'm not sure why he was brought in to debate...I'd never heard of him, and it's clear he's not a natural debater. He hasn't studied Islam, and he does make some sprawling generalizations with relatively little to back it up....I am in agreement with him, but think there are millions of better atheist debaters out there.
rogan71 3 weeks ago
I just about made it through Hamza's babbling intro...He starts with a strawman about atheism., adds pure conjecture then after some logical fumbling, contradicts his own point....The fact he can even use the word logic in the same sentence as he rest of his nonsense shows the cognitive separation required for religion.
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71
thats typical for muslims to denying and avoid facts about there imaginairy god
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@@lacossanostra - What I hear is - It's got four legs and it's not a dog, therefore logically it must be a cat...I don't know who Ed Buckner is, but he should have picked up on the absurdity of Hamza's reasoning .
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71
lol yeah your right
i almost pissed my pants when i see what this douchbag named hamza talking to Richard Dawkins or to Pz Meyers, video called PZ Myers pwns Hamza Tzortzis & Adnan Rashid
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
14:30 in, I don't accept that in order for something to happen will is needed. Who wills cells to become cancerous in a child's brain? Who wills arsenic (a natural substance) to be poisonous to humans? Who wills the HIV virus to come into being? There's no will, it's chaos. I think anybody who believes they have been told or have worked out the entire universe is either misguided or lying. I'm afraid it just probably won't happen in our lifetime. It would be sad if it was so easy wouldn't it?
MegaPaddy86 3 weeks ago
There's no religion in the world that approves of being rude. Discuss, dont cuss!
FNalsaleh 3 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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you asked me on what logical ground iam going to say that God ABSOLUTELY do not exist?
On commen sence and also about all the errors your book the quran contians
why wouldt there be an almighty god !!
on what what logical ground are you going to say/claim that God ABSOLUTELY does exists?
its all in my quran or because you beleive
that your proof god exists
Its a well know fact that many people claimed/invented gods at that time, your god is the last of many evolved claimed god
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
hello my name is pluzi.
I claim that god exists bassed on the great evidence called BELIEVE
I also love to use words from sientists and take them out of context
I do this for example when a sientist is making the assumption; wat IF the univers had a biggining
i take it out of context and claim the say the univers had a biggining
If you dont agree with me i going to stick my fingers in my ears and sing a song
i have to go the local imam is calling to worship my imaginairy friend again
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra wow the use of ad hominem attacks are way too overused now. Scientists made those assumption, so why is it wrong for making that assumption? I don't criticise your assumptions that there is absolutely no God. However, I am just trying to give you a different point of view. Whether you want to agree with it or not it is up to you. Your insults are only going to hurt your own reputation, not mine.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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I don't criticise your assumptions that there is absolutely no God. However, I am just trying to give you a different point of view. Whether you want to agree with it or not it is up to you. Your insults are only going to hurt your own reputation, not mine
really!! sind when iam i a atheist who doesnt beleive in a god
i never said anything like that
your the one who claims allah exists because you are brought up in a muslim fam and being indoctrinated with islam and follows islam
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
wow the use of ad hominem attacks are way too overused now. Scientists made those assumption
Hawking's proposal. It is still a proposal it's not a fact it certainly doesnt implement that god exist or couldt exists
its YOU who claims/makes it look like hawking's said that there wouldt be a chance a almighty god exist
hawkin's never didt!!
its just a assumption
he also made a proposal about a spaghetti monster the flying pinks unicorn and the flying theapot
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Hawking made an assumption that the universe can come into existence by itself, I never said he claimed that there is a chance that God may or may not exist. Why do you insist that I should not believe in God? I think my reasons for believing in God are logical enough. If you believe the assumption that Hawking made, I am also fine with it. But when you insulted me because I held on to my views, then we have a problem here. We are here to discuss not insult one another.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@pluz93
Why do you insist that I should not believe in God? I think my reasons for believing in God are logical enough. If you believe the assumption that Hawking made, I am also fine with it
so because your parent and there parents ect beleived were indoctrinated with islam it wouldt be logical enough for you to to assume god exist LOL
and sec sience proved more about the earth and everything around it than all the religions together
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
your attacking US atheist/agnostics because whe cant disprove your chimera with evidence but its oke for you to claim god exist without eny evidence
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra I am not attacking any atheist or agnostic. I am here to discuss with them and respect their point of view. Unlike you, who is trying to shove a/an theory/ideology down my throat. I do agree that I don't have a solid evidence, but I do believe based on logical reasoning, and I think that is reasonable enough for me. Whether you agree with it or not, that's up to you.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 I do agree that I don't have a solid evidence, but I do believe based on logical reasoning, and I think that is reasonable enough for me
NO shit sherlock!! so you just shove away all the errors and contradictions that are in the quran tora bible (cherry picking) and than made the conclusion that its plain logic to beleive what the quran bible and thora claim
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra I see some improvements in your English, which is a good sign. Although I doubt that you wrote those last 2 comments. This discussion is about God, not religion and not me. So you whether the Qur'an has contradiction or not, I do not know and I don't really care and besides that is not the point. I don't see the point in discussing when we are talking about 2 different things. You scouted my arguments without even examining the logical reasoning behind it.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
This discussion is about God, not religion and not me well thats a wierd claim because your god does exists because of your relgion conclusion without religion no god !!
you dont care of the quran contians errors but yet you claim to be a muslim
it shows perfectly how stupid and indoctrinated you are about your believe and about your relgion
religion issent bassed on logical reasoning its bassed on beleive and nothing else
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Wow, no rebuttal of my arguments at all. It is truly remarkable how you managed to dodge all my arguments with your barrage of insults. Also, I can also give you many scientists who believes in God (e.g Issac Newton, Max planck). Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know. I don't have time to read and examine it carefully because I've got a lot of studying to do for college.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
hello my name is pluzi and iam a MUSLIM not because i know what the quran says but because my parrents indoctrinated me with islam like the also got indoctrinated by there parrents ect
Whether the Qur'an contains error, I don't really know.first stupid mistake I don't have time to read and examine it carefully but yet you are a MUSLIMS AND YOU ARE PROOD TO BE A MUSLIMS
wel wel it isn't surprising me, this is typical islamic stupidity
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
Wow, no rebuttal of my arguments at all. It is truly remarkable how you managed to dodge all my arguments with your barrage of insults.
I never didt and never will dodge your arguments
Somtimes the truth hurts and sometimes it feels like an insult because you cant deal with someone's else opineon
by the way believing in a god doesent prove the existence of a god, specialy not your god
sientist are 99.9atheist and agnostics
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments, which explains all the insults here. You could not answer and that is why you are just cussing your way out of the arguments. Also where did you get the 99.9 percent figure from? I checked the stats online, from pewforum and livescience website stated that roughly about 40-60% believed in God or higher power. Wow, you're dumb and desperate.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
I never intended to PROVE anything here. I am just saying why I believe in God, that's all. And yes you dodged my arguments
REALLY didt you forgot how you started to argu with me !! you made question after question and i replyed on it until i was fed up when you did not replyed on my questions
you also tryed to disprove me with every remark that i made
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Those are rebutalls my friend. I say something which invalidate your arguments. I was just asking you about whether or not there is a possibility that God might exist, since you are an atheist, your stance is that God absolutely does not exist. So I am just telling you why I believe in God and give you another perspective. I don't intend to shove any Ideology down your throat.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@pluz93
its a well known fact that religious people like mohammed tried to concure the world with force and deception his own man made ideology called islam
If you think atheist got a bad ideology and that were force you to use our so called ideology than please dont use non islamic inventions any more
Be a man and depend only on the islamic ideology and there wonderfull progress that the islamic ideology brought you
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra one last thing, I didn't cherry pick from the Qur'an at all. I mean that is the only surah which gives the description of God. I also picked up some of Aristotle's reason for believing that there is a God. About your opinions about the prophet, I can give you the names of non-muslim scholars who disagree with your view (e.g William Watt and Michael Hart). So just because you think so, does not make it a fact.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
quote; one last thing, I didn't cherry pick from the Qur'an at all. I mean that is the only surah which gives the description of God
Answer; No it issent!! i have only mentioned those two just to prove it !
quote; I also picked up some of Aristotle's reason for believing that there is a God
answer; Aristotle's errors are considered by many sientists to have held back science considerably. so why wouldt i believe him that your chimary exist
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Quote 'Aristotle's errors are considered by many sientists to have held back science considerably'. You copy pasted it from Wikipedia. You replaced 'some', with 'scientist'. You didn't analyze his logic, you are just merely agreeing to the views of some people which may not be correct. Also you said 'No it issent!! i have only mentioned those two just to prove it!'. What are 'those two' you mentioned there?
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Let me also quote from Wikipedia about Aristotle. It is under the Legacy section, 'Aristotle was the founder of formal logic, pioneered the study of zoology, and left every future scientist and philosopher in his debt through his contributions to the scientific method'.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
dont use aristotle to proof god exists
its such a typical behavour for religious people to hang on to people who contributed to humanity and got an opineon about the existance of a god
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
who is trying to shove a/an theory/ideology down your throat
from the day you were born you where indoctrinated with islam
its a well known fact that religious people like mohammed tried to concure the world with force and deception his own man made ideology called islam
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Actually, come to think of it, you did wrote last two comments.
And yes you did try to shove an Ideology down my throat and trying to make me feel bad for not agreeing with you. Besides, what's wrong with being indoctrinated with Islam? It keeps me out of trouble and I have benefited from it.
look at the animosity in most of your comments. But If it makes you feel happy, go ahead and unleash another torrent of your insults.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
you did try to shove an Ideology down my throat and trying to make me feel bad
No it isn't, you can close your pc or ignore me, iam not forcing you like your prophet mohammed (piss be on him) didt this by oppressing islam to non muslims with violance
sec atheisme is bassed on facts not on a ideologie that is bassed on beleive
keep hidding behind the so called iam a victem of verbal abusse by an atheist
read the ideology from your quran and see what it says about me the infidel
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra and seriously what are these 'facts' you keep saying? you didn't give me anything, yet you are so persistent about it. In my opinion, whether God exist or not we don't really know for sure. We don't really have the means to prove that he exists or not. So you choose, whether there is or there is not. I believe I have shown you the reason why I belief logically. So whether you accept it or not that's your problem, you don't have to make me feel bad for doing what I do.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
according to pulz its impossible that things come to existence but yet is not impossible for a god to suddenly came to existence out of nothing
its shows perfectly the one way street of pulzi
its also a FACT that the quran contains many errors and contradictions but yet pluzi claims it doesent matter if it does he is not looking at those mistakes
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Well we don't know if God suddenly just 'pop' into existence or not. We all agree that the Universe started with the big bang, which means it has a starting point. God by definition, does not have a starting point. So we have to stick to the definition here. Whether that being exist or not, we don't really know for sure. But I have good and logical reasons to believe in him just like Aristotle, Isaac Newton and Max Planck did.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
Well we don't know if God suddenly just 'pop' into existence or not. We all agree that the Universe started with the big bang
No you dont, the big bang issent in your quran the big bang is denyed by many religous people but accepted more and more because of all the evidence that the big bang happend
many religious people suddenly accept the big bang and try to prove/convince others that it was god who made it happend
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Yes the big bang is in the Qur'an. Refer to verse 21:31. Also aristotle arguments about the existence of God is compatible with Christianity and Islam. So I can legitimately use his argument without deviating from the argument.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
about your big bang in the quran mmwauuh you funny and stupid at the same time
check out the video from my friend philhellness video called Re: Re: Re: Creation of the Big Bang
its a perfect explaination of the stupidity and ignorand remarks/claims done religous people that the big bang is mentioned in the quran or other religous books
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Look I don't intend to make you my enemy, but you just keep insulting me that I had to retaliate with disrespect. I think we should end this thing, I am sure you don't want to waste your life arguing with some douchebag online, right? Besides I have to study for my polymer fabrication finals tomorrow. Good bye and all the best in your life. :D
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Whether it has mistakes or not I'm not really sure. I'll read it up during semester break.
and Yes I am stupid. That is why I go to college, earning my degree, so that I can learn something and be good at it. But I know for sure I am smarter than you. I mean you are not in the position to call people stupid when yourself could not even spell properly. I've seen 7 year old spell better than you. Wow, you really are pathetic. :D
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
about your stupid remark about were i got the 99%from
Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll
In the national academy of sciences
72.2% disbelieve in God
20.8% have doubt or agnosticism
but still no prove of god
it shows again that when you can deal with facts you start to insult me and attack me on my grammar
i feel sorry for you mister know it all !!!
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Yes that but that is only one organisation. You have to take a look at the others as well, like the ones I gave you. And you were lying, the stats which you gave me is way too exageratted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra I am not imposing anything onto you, and I merely trying to express what I believe without offending you, If I am, along the way, I am truly sorry. And I ask you to do the same thing. I respect your views and I expect the same thing from you. If not then we should not discuss any further. Again about your attacks on the prophet(saw), there are many non-muslim scholars (e.g William Watt) who extolled him for his character and achievements. So your attempts to malign him is futile.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra About the fighting infidel part, all those verses are linked to the verse 22:39. Besides if those were supposed to be taken literally, those coptic christians in Egypt would be dead by now.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 by whom i believe you and our bro in islamic country...if u were there and against there will,are u follow what they say or not..like for example this is your plan do the suicide bomb in embassy..are u going there or not? in the name of allah
aliens301 3 weeks ago
@aliens301 Why should I risk my life to do that? They didn't do anything to harm me, so why on earth should I kill them? If some people are persuading me to do such violent acts, I will call the police immediately.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
your wrong and your muslim brother prove this by killing coptic christians in egypt
The are persecuted or raped every day see for example how respectless islam in this video called Copts in Egypt are persecuted .
The are following exactly your prophet mohammed who also presecuted decapitated non muslims in medina wiki battle of trenches or battle of badr
if you google coptic christians killed the internet is exploding
this is a perfect example of you kicking your own ass
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra So, what they did was a felony. They SHOULD be punished by the law. The coptic christians have been together with the Muslims for centuries, they should be gone by now if the killings are justified according to the verses. But NO they are not. Another example, the Bali Bombing mastermind. He was prosecuted for his actions in Indonesia, a Muslim majority country. If the context of the verses are true, He won't be prosecuted at all, in fact he will be praised by the whole country.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
So, what they did was a felony. They SHOULD be punished by the law. The coptic christians have been together with the Muslims for centuries,
no i the haven't, egypte doesen't belong to islam islam concured sec you made the claim muslims didn't kill coptic christains and i proved your wrong
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra No you have not prove me wrong. If the context of those verses are like that. Al-Azhar University would issue an official order to kill all non-muslims in Egypt. Do we see that? no we don't. Those killings were not supported by the state, and yes they SHOULD be punished. By the way in Islamic law, if one kill innocent person on purpose and does not feel remorseful, that person will be sentenced to death.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
quote; wow the use of ad hominem attacks are way too overused now. Scientists made those assumption, so why is it wrong for making that assumption?
overused attacks ad hominem!!? well your the one who makes statements and i will reply on that !
your the one who is seeing this as an attack because your statements are bassed on just believe and thats nothing to me!!
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Ad hominem attacks, are personal attacks/insult. Who has been insulting throughout the conversation? you started it and most of the time is you. Almost every comment was made with the insertion of derision and animosity. You can argue why I am wrong about that particular subject, but why do you have to made a personal attack on me? I came here to discuss not to be insulted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@pluz93
Umm, the universe started with the Big Bang. The age of the universe is counted from the time that big bang happened until now.
therefore your point has't been proven
not one sientist claims the earth has a biginning
the say it might be 50/50 chanche
its no suprise that your staying with your claim, but everybody can see that your claim is bassed on a 50/50 chanche and that you also take the words from dawkins out of context for you own benifite/beleive
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
Dear all
We are here to discuss not to insult one another.
Bmohamed4 3 weeks ago
if you want to refer to steven hawking than i say to you this
Steven Hawking's actual stance on the subject has changed. He argues that the Hawking-Hartle no boundary proposal (which is a way to compute the wavefunction of the universe) can be interpreted to mean that the universe had a beginning and still was not created
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
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according to pluz his god allah is an entity but yet the quran never talk about an entity
So why wouldt the quran not say, allah the entity!! because it issent
How hard can it be to write down the entity allah instead of saying write down HE HIM or FATHER
Its show again that pluzi gave allah a new identity, he suddenly invented that allah is an entity
it clear that muslims do everything(lie and mislead) to make allah unprovable
keep trying pluzi !!
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
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according to pluz his god allah is an entity but yet the quran never talk about an entity
So why wouldt the quran not say, allah the entity!! because it issent
How hard can it be to write down the entity allah instead of saying write down HE HIM or FATHER
Its show again that pluzi gave allah a new identity, he suddenly invented that allah is an entity
it clear that muslims do everything(lie and mislead) to make allah unprovable
keep trying pluzi !!
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
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lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
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lacossanostra 4 weeks ago
hello iam pluz93 i believe in a magical sky daddy!!!
i dont know if he is a he, aldo the quran clearly says HE
many people made fun about the HE and father form so that why i suddenly claim allah issent a he but an entity LOL
i just made up that he is an entity the reaon behind it is because with the main knowledge its impossible to disprove my man made allah, aka magical sky daddy, aka imaginary friend
i'll go, i have to pray and worship my god otherwiss he is going to send me to hell
lacossanostra 4 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Again, you keep saying that God is a he. NO it is not. You do now that sometimes we refer a country as a she. Even the Earth sometimes is considered a she. But is the Earth a she in reality, NO it is not. So you have some serious language issue. Also, I have explained to you clearly that Magical sky daddy and God is 2 different things. Where is my rebuttal on that one? Never mind. Just go to school.
pluz93 4 weeks ago
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@pluz93
again keep avoiding the facts about theo van gogh or about Hamza Kashgari
about And I did answer your question. I even explained my arguments which are: why I believed in God (first cause), definition of God, the universe has a beginning, something cannot comes out of nothing (except God
Really like i said before your wrong see spacefoam
something cannot comes out of nothing (except God)
Your wrong again, my yellow invisible leprechaun does
disprove me sucker!!
lacossanostra 4 weeks ago
@pluz93 Again, you keep saying that God is a he. NO it is not. You do now that sometimes we refer a country as a she. Even the Earth sometimes is considered a she. But is the Earth a she in reality, NO it is not. So you have some serious language issue
yeah blame it on my englisch language but its you who claims god is and entity but the funny part is why talk about he when you ment god is an entity
how hard can it be to just write down what you ment instead of he father ect
joke stays on y
lacossanostra 4 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Seriously? That is your answer? do you even know what it means? Of course language plays an important role in explaining my point which makes your invalidate your arguments. Once again God is not a he or a she. It is not a human. It does not have shape and form. Like energy for example, it is neither female nor male. It does not take form or shapes. So God is something like that, not a 'magical sky daddy'.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Let me also explain how arguing works. You give your views, and I am supposed to rebut you. I have come up with a few arguments to rebut your previous statements, so now you have to rebut me back. When one can't counter another's argument, that person loses. Do you understand how it works now?
pluz93 4 weeks ago
@pluz93
Let me also explain how arguing works. You give your views, and I am supposed to rebut you. I have come up with a few arguments to rebut your previous statements
you know how it works so why aint you stick to the rules than !!
you kept holding your monoloog and call it an argumment and failed to answer my questions and lie that you didt
like i said everybody can read my questions and the lack of answers from your side
see ya islamic troll
lacossanostra 4 weeks ago
@lacossanostra I did stick to the rules, You don't. All you did is ranting about how I supposedly not answer your question. When in fact I did. I explain everything about the POSSIBILITY of the existence of God and What God Actually is and Also I explain that the Universe has a beginning which counter your arguments. Now it is YOUR turn to give me the logical refutation of my arguments. But I guess it's pointless, because you probably don't understand anything at all. Go back to school, cretin.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
Also I explain that the Universe has a beginning which counter your arguments.
well it doesent this is the perfect example for other to see how stupid you are
what are your sources that the univers has a beginning some me some proof
lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Umm, the universe started with the Big Bang. The age of the universe is counted from the time that big bang happened until now. Therefore proves my point. You quoted Hawking's proposal. It is still a proposal, and I doubt that it has been proven. Thus, that does not eliminate the chance of God's existence. I am not avoiding your question here, is just that his proposal is not absolute, so my claim still stands.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
so, there was nothing, at all, and then there was something?
ILoveIslamInCanada 3 weeks ago
@ILoveIslamInCanada You are a Muslim right? Do you know what a God is?
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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lacossanostra 3 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Go to wikipedia under the Big Bang and Age of the universe to see it for yourself.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 hey im ex muslim...i read all the comments..your not smart enough to debate ..you cant prove it with facts..all of u muslim diffrent interpretation
aliens301 3 weeks ago
@aliens301 Hello ex-Muslim, I am here not to shove any ideology down anyone's throat. I was discussing about the POSSIBILITY of God's existence. Whether it is different interpretation from other Muslims, I will always support my claims based on the Qur'an itself. I am no scholar and that is my perspective, so any mistake/false claims are regretted.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 bro every religion can claim that god is exiist but no evidence..for me as a ex muslim, base of my experience and evidence god,allah,demons,angels,jinns are exist..i believe in quran bible and book of enoch,sumerian which is older than the quran and bible.the only problem all religion is understanding ..im embrace science than the quran and bible.muslim made a big mistake to kill infidels..in islamic country christian, other even muslim was tortured and killed..pls respect other religion
aliens301 3 weeks ago
@aliens301 Yes I do respect other people who believes in different religion and I detest all of the cold-blooded actions of radical Muslims.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 yes not all muslim,christian,jews are bad but if u live islamic country with or with out sharia law its totally diffrent..look what happen to UK,riot..then someday it will happen her ein u.s. if they grow more..look the news what happen to nigeria bombing in church,philippines maasacre 60-80 people,egypt tortured all christian and etc...its better there is no religion,changed it,wanna live but respect all religion
aliens301 3 weeks ago 2
@aliens301 you gotta tell it to them. Those people who caused the riot are in jail now. So, please don't blame what happened there on me. I didn't do anything.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 - Surely a "radical" Muslim is one who takes the Quran literally?
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 In my opinion, the radicals are those people who take the verses out of context. I mean come on, if those fighting verses are to be taken literally without any context, the world would be at war by now, and those coptic christians in egypt would be wiped out by now.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 - Well, I read the Quran and the only context I could find in it was one of fear and terror. 90% of it is instilling hate and mistrust of the unbeliever, and fear of an incredibly unlikable and unreasonable God.
The Mullah Omars of this world are reading the same words as you, and possibly with better Arabic and contextual understanding....I appreciate most Muslims are not violent, but the context is there if they choose to be....
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 we are entitled to our own opinion, and I respect yours. One question, where does 90% comes from?
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 - Well, I can't be sure of the exact % but open the Quran randomly and you'll find threats of hell and an almost obsessive hatred of the unbelievers....I could ask you what parts are radical Muslims twisting? You can't twist Jainism to be violent, why can you with Islam?
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 I'm not really familiar with Jainism, so I can't really help you with that. As for Islam, in my opinion the influence came from the people and not really the Qur'an itself. As I have said before, if the context of the verses are to kill any infidel, the Islamic states would have issued an official order for all the Muslims in the country to kill infidel. Do we see that? No we don't. Also the fighting verses are related to the verse 22:39.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 - So the violent verses in the Quran played no part in influencing the behavior of it's followers? To me that is incredibly delusional.
Jainism is an actual religion of peace, where it's impossible for it's followers to harm a living thing - almost to the point of mania...Islam is not a religion of peace as it has conflict at it's core...It's not that the violence isn't in context, it's that it's there at all... Are instructions on how to beat your wife really necessary?
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 Well honestly, I don't really know how those extremists justify their acts according to the Qur'an. I'm not one of them and certainly the scholars of Islam do not interpret the meaning like they do.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@rogan71
Now for the treatment of women. Well, beating is wrong. But if by using physical force (slight) can save your marriage why not? The purpose is for discipline only, not to get what you want out of her. Of course, that does not mean you beat your wife each time she disobey you. Sometimes, domestic violence is inevitable, if one man has to be incarcerated when he, say slapped her, out of frustration, a LOT of people are going to prison. In US alone 1 in 4 Women experienced some sort of...
pluz93 3 weeks ago
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@pluz93
keep avoiding the facts pluzi!!
about your stupid remark about were i got the 99%from?
Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll
In the national academy of sciences
72.2% disbelieve in God
20.8% have doubt or agnosticism
but still no prove of god
it shows again that when you can deal with facts you start to insult me and attack me on my grammar
i feel sorry for you mister know it all !!!
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@rogan71 ... domestic violence. Assuming that there is 150 million women in US, that would be about 30 million women and 30 million perpetrators. Imagine what incarcerating every person who committed those acts would do to the country. Of course there is limit that one should not transgress, such as: must not cause severe pain, should not hit the head or the body. Also hitting is the last resort if she persisted her disobedience. The husband also must not resolve every single thing with violence
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 and mediators from both family should also come and help to resolve the matter.
So to conclude, beating is wrong and everyone should refrain from it. But if is done to restore order and used as the last resort, then why not? Also the undesirable act should be done without transgressing the limit prescribed. You should also know that the foundation of Islam is based on the 5 pillars and 6 beliefs. All of them got nothing to do with violence.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@rogan71
As I have said before, watch the movie 'the message' or 'Muhammad the last prophet' here on youtube. It is a good start to learn something about Islam.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93 - "It is a good start to learn something about Islam" - I studied Islam to degree level...Why do Muslims always assume that non-Muslims need educating?...Look.. Physically beating your wife is wrong in any circumstance, as is slavery. If you need to contextualize these very simple premises, then the message is flawed.
rogan71 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 Well I am sorry then, I assume you are taking a course on comparative religion. I not trying to belittle you in any sort of ways. In that case the extra information on those movies which I recommend might help. The message needs to be contextualized so that people don't abused it for their own benefits. I do agree completely that slavery is wrong. Violence is also wrong, but if they are done to for good reasons and does not transgress the limit, why not?
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@rogan71 In addition to that, so are you saying that those 30 million people in the US who have used any physical force against their women should be jailed? Even if they have resolved the matter in their own hands? once again I have to stress that violence is wrong and shameful, but if the purpose behind it is good and it does not transgress limit, why not? by the way the verse which regards to the beating is 4:34. Take a look by yourself.
pluz93 3 weeks ago
@pluz93
the funny part is people like pluzi are ussing non islamic inventions to prove the quran is real
Not 1 islamic country ever showed any progress or prosperous done because of there quran
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra Wow, you still want to debate. That video that you showed me is just an opinion not a proof. And seriously have you not heard of the Ottoman Empire? Islamic Golden Age? Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī? and you posted the same comments for like 3 times. What is it that you want? Do you want to make me spoil my day by insulting me relentlessly? Well have it your way. I've got better things to do.
Do svidaniya.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
yes and al the knowledge came from !!! correct sumairs greeks and romans
you keep makking me smile everytime you try to make a point
sec yes i made 3 times the same comment because you keep avoiding it
and about having a debate with you well that will nver work because you going to keep your monologue and keep hidding behing the stupid remark that i insult you
You cant deal with facts, thats why you are calling yourself a victim and blame it on the so called insults
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra
Firstly, 3 same comments about insult, not rebuttal at all. So you your arguments are still not valid.
Secondly, we do know that a car has a creator, but we don't know whether the universe is caused or uncaused.
Thirdly, I can deal with facts, that is why I don't hide my insecurities by talking gibberish and belittle the opinions of others like you. It does not make you right either, you are just deceiving yourself into believing that you are right.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
insults!! well its how you interpet my remarks like i said you keep denying and avoiding so its no option to have a debate with a person like you who got insulted by every fact i use
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
so its oke for you to claim the god(father,he the almighty) has alsways been there but its no option for particals been there without god LOL were is your proof of allah
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra God is never a father or a he or a she or a they. Until now, you still don't really know what a God is. I am not here to proof anything, I am merely telling you why I believe based on logical assumption. God by definition has always been there. The universe however, may or may not be. As I have said before, the big bang shows that there is a high possibility than it has a beginning.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
quote God is never a father or a he or a she or a they
well why are you debating me
go pray to your allah and ask him why he let it happen that mohammed the illiterate called god him he the father ect :)
He even made sure the(his (war buddy's) wrote it down and called it the word of allah (diddent know allah had a voice)
you are claiming that god is an logical assumption but yet there aint nothing logical about it, allah is bassed on beleive
show me the logical aspect !?
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Do you know what assumption mean? or logic? or theology? God you are hopeless. I am just sick and tired of explaining my arguments. I have explained it before in the comments section and you deviated from the arguments then come back to ask the same old shit again. I rather study for my exam. You know, school is probably not the place for you. You should try the hospital, because your brain is seriously messed up. If not just go jump off a building.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
As I have said before, the big bang shows that there is a high possibility than it has a beginning.
no it doesn't its in your brainwashed islamic mind that there wouldt be a biginning
the big bang shows that for example that whe diddent made by your god who made a man and women
the evolution shows us exactly that we have developt ourself from primates
it wassent your father the almighty allah who made a man and women
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra How do you disprove my argument that the big bang does not give a high possibility that the universe has a beginning? How does the the big bang shows that 'the big bang shows that for example that whe diddent made by your god who made a man and women'?
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra
Fourthly, da svidanya is the phonetical spelling of Good bye of Russian language in alphabet.
Fifth, God does not appear out of nothing, it has always been there by definition, but the universe however, we do not know for sure. But the Big bang theory suggests that it has a starting point.
Sixth, complex creations are natural processes, we know how it happened but we don't know the driving force so as to why it happened. It does not prove that God does not exist
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
phonetical issent good enough mister !! or are you an illiterated one like your prophet
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Wow, your stupidity is beyond human comprehension. 'до свидания' is pronounced as 'do svidaniya', which means 'good bye' in Russian. What do you mean by not good enough? It is what it is. And where is my rebuttal to my 7 points, instead you bring up the prophet which is not even the subject of the discussion. And yes the slanders were sprinkled all over your comments. Please go back to school and learn some proper manners.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@pluz93
Wow, your stupidity is beyond human comprehension. 'до свидания' is pronounced as 'do svidaniya', which means 'good bye' in Russian. What do you mean by not good enough
phonetic issent a language so its no good mister
your the one who attacks me on my english grammar but its oke for you to wrote down word in a phonetic way
it shows again that you cant deal with hypocrisy and self reflection
lacossanostra 2 weeks ago
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@lacossanostra Well you are the one who started it. I tried being polite, but you are just pushing it to my limit. Do you know what phonetic means? and it has got to do with language. Well clearly you don't. So your comments didn't make sense at all.
pluz93 2 weeks ago
@lacossanostra and at the end of the day, you are just going to claim that you won the argument and sealed it with verbal harassment. How original...
pluz93 2 weeks ago