Rob Dunbar: The threat of ocean acidification

[StephanieLisaTara]

HAIKU

I hatch! Crawl! And swim!

Oh how I love my sweet life,

But—why’s the sea so warm?

—A Green Sea Turtle



[RoyStewart]

@chrisprescott at the atmospheric pressure at sea level the sea water can't take enough CO2 to cause it to become acid. The claims that the oceans are acid is a deliberate lie.

[RoyStewart]

@chrisprescott That's misleading, a decrease in pH does not entail an increase in acidity. This is the crucial point on which the lie is based. In reality a liquid is either acid, alkali or neutral. . . . the very slight decrease in alkalinity still leaves us with an alkaline ocean there is NO acid present ! Although the lying scientists know this, they allow and carefully encourage the public to believe that the oceans are now acid. That is a an utter lie !

[thebastedbigfoot]

@RoyStewart I'm not sure whether or not you took middle school science or not, but decrease in pH IS increase in acidity. When you take a sample of pH in the ocean every year for 50 years and see that it is decreasing, the acidity is increasing. In what universe did you get the idea that pH does not monitor acidity?

[RoyStewart]

@thebastedbigfoot No it is not. An alkaline solution cannot sensibly be described as an acid simply because it is less alkaline than it was previously. The media ( and scientists) have been spreading the illusion that the oceans are acidic when in fact they are not. This lie has been perpetrated with the help of charts which show areas of the ocean which have slightly lower alkalinity in RED, and areas of higher alkalinity in BLUE, thereby giving people the idea that a pH scale is being used.

[0maxwell2]

@RoyStewart Hi Roy, I just want to point out a couple things. You are correct in that when we say something is acidic, we mean it has a pH < 7.0 However, for aqueous solutions, 'acid' is H3O+. Is there acid, or H3O+, in the ocean? If the ocean pH is 8.04, then the [H3O+] is 10^-8.04, so yes there is acid present. Further more, if the pH decreases to 7.04, the concentration of H3O+ (acid) increases ten fold, so 'decreasing pH' means 'increasing acid' even if the solution is basic

[0maxwell2]

@RoyStewart And I also want to clear up water can take up CO2 quite readily even under low pressure, CO2 is very soluble in water. Someone at some point said about 33% of CO2 in the atmosphere dissolves in water, in fact I think it's about 3% based on solubility constant, Nevertheless, you can do a b.o.t.e. calc to get a lower bound estimate on increase in [co2] based on an increase from 380 ppm to 480 ppm (increase in partial pressure of 1e-4 atm) and see [co2] increases 20%

[0maxwell2]

@0maxwell2 this is clearly a lower bound because i've not accounted for any equilibrium between the dissolved CO2 and other species once in the ocean. Does this impact free carbonate in the ocean? certainly. Does this impact solubility of calcite and arginite? certainly. Can I do a similar back of the envelope calculation to determine the metabolic stress this puts on coral, etc... not really, at this point we should review the work of people studying these more complicated questions

[0maxwell2]

@RoyStewart rather than dispute chemistry we can all verify with some arithmetic and access to physical constants. So, I would urge you to use your scientific acumen to read Dunbars work, e.g. Arrigo, K.R. Dunbar, R.B., et al,Science, 283: 365-367 (1999); K.R., Dunbar, et al, Journal of Geophysical Research, 105: 8827-8846 (2000)

[RoyStewart]

do you realise that the oceans are alkaline ? These charalatans have, using linguistic trickery, carefully convinced the mainstream media and the gullible public into believing that the oceans are acid when they are not.. . we are s...eeing articles which falsely claim that the ocean is acid. Even National Geographic claimed that sea glass is being etched by 'Acid oceans'.

He claims that organisms are affected by the"'acidicity of the oceans" but neglects to mention that NO ACIDIDITY EXISTS

[thebastedbigfoot]

@RoyStewart Get your head out of your conspiracy! Go take a sample of ocean water and put litmus paper in it. Tell me it has no acidity and shut it!

[RoyStewart]

@thebastedbigfoot doing so reveals that the oceans are alkaline, time for you to shut it !

[Astowhy]

I feel sorry and down about the human race. We could be living a life of wonder and amazement. Embracing technology and having a world full of people that study the planet and care for it. Instead we are made to fight for everything we have and then only after some time realize it was all for nothing. We are controlled, money is but one form of control and probably the best one at that. Cleaner is better, Oil is old but holds power and controls a lot of governments.

[DonAnonimus]

Fantastic presentation!

[drorbenami]

in the 1990's a lot of the health food scalpers were pushing coral calcium from japan and talking about acidcification of the blood. edgar cayce also used to talk about it. everyone used to refer to the pH experiments of otto walburg a nobel prize winning jew who was allowed to continue working by the nazis. the other thing they always discussed was how the pH of the body was almost the same as the pH of the ocean

[Devinvollmer]

@chrisprescott Very informative answer, thanks!

[Devinvollmer]

I'm a bit confused about the chemistry though. When he means acidification, does he mean extra H+ ions in the water? how can C02 do that?

Can anyone explain?

[fatkasuvayu]

@Devinvollmer CO2 in water forms carbonate ions, CO3(-2), leaving behind H+ ions

[midare]

@Devinvollmer I would recommend the Aug 2010 issue of Scientific American; pg 66 had a write up on this topic that was very well put together. The diagrams made the chemistry clear even to someone like myself (I hated Chem in school). Basically atmospheric CO2 dissolves, then steals the H2 from water resulting in H2CO3... The article covers the problems this causes for various marine life and the potential environmental and economic impacts.

[RoyStewart]

@midare It is impossible for enough CO2 to enter the sea water to make it acid, as at any given pressure, the water will only take only so much CO2.

[LukeScientiae]

@RoyStewart Carbonated drinks (that's drinks with CO2 in the water) are very acidic. Approx 10 times more acidic than fruit juice. You're very, very wrong about CO2 not being able to make water acidic. The extent caused by CO2 in the oceans will not be like drinks (thankfully!), but enough to destroy huge habitats and eventually threated the whole oceanic food chain because plankton will suffer very quickly, and pretty much everything is dependent on that.

[RoyStewart]

@LukeScientiae Only because they are under pressure. and only as long as they are under pressure. 

[imperiallion]

Im amazed how this guy thinks he can fuken control climate. For starters he is nothing more than a nature Pagan what he is saying is get rid of humans when 97% of carbon is produced by the damn planet. Heres a thought you damn heretic why dont you and the rest of your tree loving asshats jump into a volcano by foot so you dont make anymore CO2 and leave the rest of us the fuk alone. This dick is pulling shit out of his ass and your idiots for believing him go get fucked by a blind bear R Dunbar.

[TheSpankymonkey]

@imperiallion - "why dont you and the rest of your tree loving asshats jump into a volcano by foot so you dont make anymore CO2" - Because you need us to make up for your dumb ass.

[SmileyWhiplash]

@imperiallion --

Here's a thought...Please don't bother contributing your elegant prose to scientific conversations if you can't even use proper English. And if you had actually been able to process any of the information in this video, you would have noticed he made no mention of "controlling climate".

[ToshiroDK]

I'd really like to know the interval between each of the 35 "melts". They should be able to show a graph, so we have an idea of Global Warming is simply a part of planetary/solar dynamics or if we have a real implication.

[austpom333]

Funny how i'm listening to someone concerned for his planet and i look across and see 7,231 views lol !

[PlayT0E]

@gotama420 If we have descendants, then our generation is going down in the record books as one of the most revolting of all-time.

[kid29a]

What bothers me in his evidence is the "messy" graph. Seems like the black line is the only one that indicates such dramatic changes. You can say the method of measurement is the most important factor. And no, I'm not climate change denier. I just don't like this inconsistency.

[S0chan]

@kid29a Actually the other data sources indicate the same increase, look at that graph again.

[LEV1ATHYN]

There's nothing wrong with a little acid. I'm on it right now!!

[quosmo1]

this was the most convincing global warming argument iv ever seen : i admit i was a little on the fence until watching this... scary.

[AlgeKalipso]

Rob Dunbar really knows what he is talking about. An admirable scientist for sure. It just gave me a different outlook on global warming: although there are some geoengineering ideas that could solve the warming itself (you can see a video of that by Nathan Myhrvold), there hasn´t been proposed a solution to the acidification problem. Lets work together to find one soon!

[notme222]

This was an excellent presentation. If Al Gore wants to help the movement, he should but a bag over his head and broadcast a video of Dunbar talking on the front of it. Respectful, comprehensive, and data-driven.

Now that said, the data that jumps up at the end is the Instrumental Record. That's NOT the same data as the historical records. And this will remain an issue because the scientific method does not allow for a change in techniques during a controlled experiment.

[SuperHighFiveGuy]

i gotta get one of them shirts :P

[Lifeintakes]

Shit... this is going to be bad isn't it.

[greenpogo]

can anyone tell me why co2 would cause atmospheric warming? isnt it as clear as o2 and N? i dont see why it would absorb anymore solar radiation than any other typical gas in our air.

[Jerkix]

@greenpogo

Google "electromagnetic absorption co2 climate change"

[AlgeKalipso]

@greenpogo Well, you only need high-school physics to know why: gas molecules, as all materials, have a particular spectrum of absorption. That is, they are transparent to certain wavelengths and not to others. Although both CO2, O2 and N are transparent to the visible spectrum, CO2 is particularly opaque for infrared wavelengths. If you had infrared vision, actually, you'd see that the atmosphere is getting progressively dark.

[greenpogo]

@AlgeKalipso lol okay well i didnt learn that in hs phyics - i do know its a heavy more dense gas - answered my own question b4 your response (which makes sense) but atm i was wondering :P good answer - thank you

[74DrJB]

@greenpogo

Yes clear to incoming short wave radiation, but opaque to outgoing long wave infa-red radiation. Basic physics, proven in countless experiments, known for >100 years. The greenhouse effect.

[theflorgeormix]

Continuing Cooling earth cycle...how long will it last ?

[psilocyberspaceman]

Interesting how the CO2 graph shows millions of years, while the temperature graph, again, is fitted for 1,000 years.

[luszczi]

Thumbs up if you think that people begging for thumbs up are morons.

[fuunguus]

I don't believe organisms in the sea wont be able to adapt to the acidification. 30 million years is nothing, many organisms probably still have active genes that makes them resistant, and all organisms most likely still have inactive genes that will save them from extinction. There will be consequences, and the ecosystem will be effected to an degree that some species will go extinct, but no way we will lose any significant biodiversity.

[RustyRazor2010]

6:25 - Cartoon? I'll bet the Angie Fox of the Nebraska State Museum really appreciated that gaffe Mr. Dumbear....

[phosoxrad]

@RustyRazor2010 Is that all you took away from this video? Let's focus on the issue at hand and not make ad hominem attacks.

[robbieopen]

Ocean Acidification! Ocean Acidification!

I always have to watch people/scientists talking about it, but I never saw someone showing graphs or data of how bad it is globally. That's not very convincing science to me. Please show me the evidence of how much pH we are talking about here. Remember pH neutral is 7.0. The pH of the ocean's is 8.069. In the 1700s it was 8.179. Rain has a pH of 5.6 and also drops on the surface of the ocean. Convinced that there is not a real problem. (Wikipedia)

[aerobique]

@robbieopen "Convinced that there is not a real problem. " Oh, there is a problem. The ocean sucks up about 1/3 of the carbon we pump in the atmosphere. In short: Check my video on that topic with the nice name "in about 50 years we will reach that point" watch?v=ok_Wm3nN54w later i can help you furthermore research links: noaa .g ov oar. noaa. g ov pmel. noaa. gov

[robbieopen]

@aerobique Thank you for your video link. I have heard that story a couple of times before. I would like results from studies being presented, cause I cannot find these. The pH of the oceans did change rapidly in the past and will change in the future through climate variations. But never in history life vanished from the planet. How can a living organism like the Coelacanth live through all these cycles for 400 milliion years. Not to mention shrimps, coral and phytoplankton. Life will prevail.

[robbieopen]

@aerobique But thanks for the book announcement at the end of your video. I ordered it already.

[Jerkix]

@robbieopen

How about I drop the pH in your blood stream by 0.2? Wiki that.

[robbieopen]

@Jerkix Yes and how about increasing it with 120 ppm of CO2 extra. Love it. Already did both and gone even further. Wonderful feeling. Ever heard of Lactic acid or anaerobic exercises. You will survive and experience no health problems at all. It's called Sport.

Is that all you can do? Playing rhetorical word games.

Please, show me where there will be catastrophe by reducing the pH of the ocean with 0.5 to 7.5.

[sundruid]

its the year of Satan, i think, me according to God

[UntrustedSource]

Hail Lucifer. 

[Imperiused]

@UntrustedSource Hail!

[BoStevoD]

666

[e1nste1n]

funny how im listening his grim news about the oceans and then i look over and see "666" views! lol

[theScytheofGod]

@e1nste1n Same here, I look over and, 666. Fuck it, hail Satan!

[cthulhu11111111]

@theScytheofGod

its still at 666 even though i am a new viewer..

[PlayT0E]

We have known about this problem for 50 years and did little or nothing.

Our descendants will stand forever aghast condemning this generation for the horrific and wanton destruction of the biosphere that is our fault.

The stone age did not end due to running out of stone.

The fossil fuel age must end with replacement technology being implemented.

We have the technology.

We need to vote for those with the political will to make the necessary change.

[AlgeKalipso]

@PlayT0E Just remember that according to the UN 51% of greenhouse gases are emitted by the business of factory farming. We have the technology to stop using fosil fuels, we only need the will. We have a method for not eating meat (vegetarianism), but do we have the will?

[PlayT0E]

@AlgeKalipso the fuel use on farms is a direct contribution to global warming, and this needs changed to a non-polluting technology.

Cow farts contribute methane, but this is offset by the plant food product consumed by cattle having previously absorbed a lot of CO2.

However, eating less meat is part of a healthier diet, so we can improve a lot with some change that is easier to accept.

[balupton]

@PlayT0E or live in a hut in the bush and don't use any electricity or fuel. As a consumer, you are to blame, not the political leaders.

[PlayT0E]

@balupton  get serious, we don't have to give up our standard of living to adopt cleaner technology.

We just need to vote for representation that endorses the cleaner alternatives.

[thebastedbigfoot]

@PlayT0E But by not making any effort at all to lead a slightly cleaner lifestyle, you are making the alternatives useless. They don't make a difference if you don't make an effort to use them, or at least use a tiny bit less energy.

[Kyanor666]

Well more nuclear power, more electric mass transport and more efficient agriculture that also manufactures our bioplastics etc with genetically modified plants. Problem solved.

[greenpogo]

@Kyanor666 maybe your a genetically modified plant. problem solved

[Harshfate]

this needs to be said, as loud as..... well as loud as his shirt

[tkherbi9a]

@Harshfate  hahahahahaahah :D:D

[hyperseauton]

There is nothing wrong with our seas. Buy BP!

[BlowDevilUp]

"Deepest geologic borehole ever drilled" Buahahahahahahahahahaha That's a good joke mister.

[valken666]

Nobody takes CO2 seriously, emissions will only stop when we run out of fuels. Or something really bad happens.

[SAsgarters]

@valken666 Indeed. And whatever is done then, will be too little, too late.

[aerobique]

@valken666

"Nobody takes CO2 seriously.."

Oh Scientist and other reasonable people do. The barriers are clear: Surrendered opinions like your´s sir.. And the intentional misinformation-campaigns suggesting there were still a "big debate" to stand out... and ppl like rob dunbar were probably "just alarmists".

Big business knew about AGW already in the 1950´s..

Try: "A REALLY inconvenient truth - Why climate change is much worse than you´ve been told." as an arse kick ;)

watch?v=3ow4Oy46F6A

[valken666]

@aerobique I say the truth, the truth hurts, that is why you answer me. Which is nice, pain makes people wake up. :) Less than 1% of the population cares, of these less than 1% really do something about it. Almost nobody.

[aerobique]

@valken666

"Less than 1% of the population cares.."

Its an total overstatement that you make here.. but I hear you and know about the problematic- and ...i said you exactly why this problem exists at all.

[Chipstastegood]

seth rogen should imitate this guy..

[del4830]

Hold on! The strength of the climate change argument is that within the last 1000 years the temperate as risen 1 degree. But at the beginning of this talk Rob states that the Ice Sheet in Antarctica has been in flux over the past 4 million years. Show me the global temperate when the Antarctic ice sheet last melted...and I will show that climate change of this magnitude is due to perfectly natural causes. After all it's happened many many times in the last 4 million years.

[socalledcollegelife]

@del4830 Climate change has never happened this dramatically in this short amount of time before.

[del4830]

@socalledcollegelife Ofcourse it is has. That's my point. How else does a block of ice larger than you can possibly imagine melt? If not for abrupt change, then what? In fact, that is what this guy shows in his core samples. And what he says in his talk. Science points to abrupt climate change, by Rob's count, a total of 35 times in the last 4 millions years.

[mayrana2]

@socalledcollegelife Not necessarily true. Super volcanoes have erupted in the past and it was estimated that they have increased temperatures by ridiculously large amounts....making our increae seem almost insignifcant by comparison.

[aerobique]

@mayrana2

big volcanos actually cooling the earth down because they block sun light

[Swidhelm]

@del4830 He said century, and he pointed out that yes there are natural fluctuations, but in the last 100 years we have seen an increase that has been unlike the natural variance, the tolerance for which he gave.

[isambo400]

See my vest!

[IWannabeJew]

Conclusion: kill all mammals?

[BaileysBeads]

2 deniers didn't like this video.

[AmericanCritiquer]

@BaileysBeads There's always a few that miss the thumbs up and accidentally give a negative vote; which is due to alcoholism or something to that effect. I know I've done it.

[TheSpankymonkey]

@BaileysBeads - They weren't deniers. They were Justin Bieber fans pissed that it wasn't a new Bieber song.

[vinniechan]

@BaileysBeads

14 idiots who missed the like button

[RoyStewart]

@BaileysBeads Using the highly politically and emotionally charged term 'deniers' to try to demonise dissenters is a fascist method, you shoud be ashamed of yourself.  Address the issues rather than demonising anyone who doesn't agree simply because they don't agree.

[BaileysBeads]

@RoyStewart Are or aren't global warming deniers denying global warming?

[abhi5a]

i'm sorry, but this is so boring... its like being in geography class again... BAHH

[marcus3379]

Damn I thought this was going to be Robin Dunbar the sociologist at first glance. :(

[defect530]

need more nuclear power plant's!!!

[futureboy00]

@defect530 Ask mr. Burns

[defect530]

@futureboy00

Excellent...

[deprogramr]

All i know is that i wanna live on a clean and biologically friendly planet and i would like future lifeforms to enjoy the same. With so many people taking so many environmental liberties so sake of laziness and lack of creativity, I just hope that the necessary changes can happen in a logical and friendly way. We just need to design and create new infrastructure that the masses can use, and ignore the dumb-ass political disagreements.

[GodofCider]

@deprogramr The trouble though, is where the funding is going to come from, for such an endeavor.

[deprogramr]

@GodofCider I don't know we could make corporations more responsible for the garbage that they create, or we could tax the rich more, tax vehicles more. Perhaps the countries of the world could actually agree on some environmental goals and then set up a separate global fund the environment. I'm not really sure though, I'm no expert.

[BaileysBeads]

@deprogramr Only a few countries are actually willing to do that. The rest just make a theatre out of international conventions, this includes presidents like Ahmadinejad, Chavez and Obama, they give empty speeches, make points that have nothing to do with the environment and don't change anything.

[NietzscheanMan]

@deprogramr fascist

[Kirbynessness]

I'm sorry Rob I can't hear you over how loud your shirt is.

[TheVikingNinja]

@Kirbynessness lol

[seaplaneguy1]

Get 60% eff with an engine that can do solar, and you cut 90% of the fuel out of average person's life. A GM car is 13% eff. .6/.13=4.6. 460% increase = 79%. Add in solar parking 8 kw-hr/day at work. Problem solved.

Read Georg Beck's study. CO2 is NOT a problem, nor can it be. The buffer of the ocean is millions of time more than any human input. CO2 Height to extinction at 40 ft cannot change heat... This is propaganda, not truth... wake up.

[P00P0STER0US]

Nicely done.

[VitriolicAC]

He sounds kind of like Al Gore. I mean just how his voice sounds. It's kind of funny actually.

[Atheistbatman]

CO2 will never be capped until there are too few people to run the factories. Have humans ever made preemptive changes for anything?

[Agnotio]

@Atheistbatman yes, on the ozone hole.

[Atheistbatman]

@Agnotio Thank you...it wasn't a rhetorical question. But I don't really think changing the gas in hairspray cans is the level of change we require.

Did we have the effect on the ozone by reducing fluorocarbons? I haven't seen any studies but I haven't looked for them either.

[Agnotio]

@Atheistbatman the ozone hole is closing; for references see the wikipedia page on the ozone layer. It wasn't just aerosol cans that were banned either; all industrial production of CFCs was capped in the 1987 Montreal Protocol. I believe one of the main usages was as a refrigerant.

[aerobique]

great talk, important stuff

spread this.. people

[GodofCider]

@FreedomForMankind Do you have an alternate proposal to such vital mechanics of our present society? Outside of an infinite resource setting?

[EntinludeX]

@FreedomForMankind How about a utopian idealistic fantasy land?

[heyjarrod]

wow