"about young adults"

[vldmr0tube]

Adults hate people with strong belive systems that say they absoluteley know what is right and what is wrong?

Well they do it because they are smart enough, unlike people in 1930s in Germany who tolerated strong power saying to them what is wrong and what is right. If you expect to have a crowd in europe which to can order to kill jews because you claim it's a right thing to do then you are a century late. Go to the Middle East, they are still prone to indoctrination by peolpe who are "right".

[NKL311]

@vldmr0tube You know... I think you're right.

[kcandkara]

Didn't read the whole thread* but I really don't think that this is true of everyone everywhere. I think that the Holy Spirit changed my heart and I'm 23 and believe what the Bible says about being under authority. I think it's about Good leadership and God changing hearts. :)

[MrPunnoosej]

I don't think "religions" are so anti-individual as they are anti self-centeredness and anti-selfishness.

[adstanra]

well, yeh. The western world has had it's fill of authoritative figures telling us what we should think and how we should behave.If you don't like Boston or NewYork, there are plenty of countries in the world that will tell you these things. Why is it that religions are so anti-individual? a mature being is his/her own person.Why do we wants to be surfs prostrating ourselves to authority....Is this guy from AMERICA?

[emily51805]

I think if you aren't serving a higher purpose or other people you're serving yourself. It's not about submitting to authority like a slave, it's the idea that loving is sacrificial and loving is service, and that should be our highest goal and what has eternal value- not the things we do for ourselves. There are differing ideas as to what "a mature being" is, but I would argue that a mature being is one who recognizes their need for relationship with others and has a desire to give to others.

[adstanra]

Hi Emily. i don't think that true love needs to be sacrificial. If I push my wife or children out of the way of a car and am killed myself, this is not sacrificial. I simly value them immeasurably and would rather die than live without them..not to mention the evolutionary motives for saving my kids.Any love that is viewed as sacrificial is not a healthy one. It brings me the greatest joy to love others.If i give something it is because I value the person more than the cost of the gift.

[derran15]

@adstanra Hi adsantra. I think you're describing sacrificial love. If you push your wife or child out of the way, it's because you love them so much you'd be willing to sacrifice your life for theirs. If you give a gift, then you're sacrificing a part of your own financial well being for that person. Love can be analyzed but is not analytical.  No man when rescuing his family, rescues them for the sake of evolution. Evolution is a way people try to explain the world, but it cannot explain love

[adstanra]

@derran15 I suppose I have a problem with the word "Sacrificial". We limited beings in a finite world develop values ( we are not omnibenevolent). Love strengthens emotional bonds bt people; strongest bt spouse and parent/offspring, then friends and relatives, then tribe. We humans require strong relationships here and this emotion serves a great evolutionary purpose, sometimes defying reason. It is the most wonderful thing we can experience, but no reason to think it has supernatural origins.

[derran15]

@adstanra How do you determine what has supernatural origins? The word natural itself stems from the nature of the object in question. You say we are not all good; are we all loving? I notice one love relationship that is missing from your list is love of self. When Jesus died upon that cross, He took upon Himself our sin. He loved us more than His skin. He had every chance to step down, but chose instead the sacrifice. This is the epitome of sacrificial love and is in every way supernatural.

[adstanra]

@derran15 we are not all-loving. We love some things more than others in a finite world. There was no need to take anyone's sin upon himself. We are animals with sentient brains living in a harsh world. We are endowed with anger, lust , fear and empathy and love for good natural reasons. If there was such a thing as hell, I would sacrifice myself on a cross to save people from as much. thousands of people have died in this way, and worse ways. In the face of my divinity, it is not all that much

[derran15]

@adstanra "There was no need to take anyone's sin upon himself." I agree with you there. That was not a necessity, but the greatest act of love. "... I would sacrifice myself on a cross to save people from as much." "it is not all that much" According to the Bible, you are dead in your sins. Friend, you can't save yourself, much less someone else. Jesus died the worst death because it went beyond the stones and nails. He took upon Himself the wrath of God. It was the worst death. The sacrifice

[adstanra]

@derran15 No need for anyone to be saved my friend. We are animals living in a universe governed by impersonal laws of physics that predate us by 13.6 billion yrs. Before us, there was already death, predation,suffering,disease. No one ever asked to be born, but we find ourselves naturally endowed with instincts, emotions and some reason. I have never done anything that would warrent the sacrifice of an innocent on a cross. This is absurd.

[adstanra]

@derran15 No need for anyone to be saved my friend. We are animals living in a universe governed by impersonal laws of physics that predate us by 13.6 billion yrs. Before us, there was already death, predation,suffering,disease. No one ever asked to be born, but we find ourselves naturally endowed with instincts, emotions and some reason. I have never done anything that would warrent the sacrifice of an innocent on a cross. This is absurd.

[dutchpuppy2]

@adstanra You said, "I have never done anything that would warrent the sacrifice of an innocent on a cross." Who can be sure? Perhaps someone reading what you've written may discouraget them from seeking God in their life? It's a far stretch. I'm not a murderer, thief, whatever either but sometimes we don't know the butterfly effect of our actions. Still, I prefer the immediacy of having a relationship with God, NOW. Life makes more sense and His priorities make life more enjoyable.

[adstanra]

@dutchpuppy2 hey. I am talking about culpability...I something I do out of ignorance or the best of intensions ends up causing harm...am I culpable? I am not sure we are. Can we be blamed for our limitations? Should I be expected to be greater than I possible can be? I think not. I am a humans trying to figure out what is true and what isn't, given my limitations. IfI am judged culpable for something. I request the dignity to pay the price myself. I would never allow an innocent to suffer

[dutchpuppy2]

@adstanra I think we need to realize the effects of our actions and if, "out of our best intentions" we cause harm, we are still responsible for that harm .If I accidently run someone over while driving my car, and maybe I don't even realize I've done it, the person is still in pain or worse. At the very least, it is an "accident." At the worst, in most court systems, I would be punished. At all times, we must be aware of how we express ourselves, that a remark is only our opinion. GB!

[adstanra]

@dutchpuppy2 Well, I would hope you wouldn't be punished. Accidents do happen all the time....by accident, we mean that it was not intended by a mind. We are not responsible for the laws of physics or probability. If you were acting recklessly, that is different, but even still, you wouldn't be punished for murder etc.This is justice.

[dutchpuppy2]

Unfortunately, many Christians, (one book I ready said 87%) don't live like Christians outside of church. Watch out for those as they give a bad example. Keep searching!

[dutchpuppy2]

@adstanra I don't know where you come from but in America, there is something called "involuntary manslaughter" and results in a prison sentence. Also, an "accident" can still come with a punishment, usually monetary, in what is called "civil court." When it comes to having a relationship with God, I hope that you pray for wisdom, asking for God's help to see He is there. That's pretty much how I started because I was raised in a home where we didn't go to church.

[adstanra]

@dutchpuppy2 Yes, but with manslaughter, you are charged because of your recklessness and you are not charged with murder. If it is judged that there was nothing you could have done to prevent this injury ( like drive slower) , then you are not guilty. The judgement is called guilty when you should have known better or did know better. you are not judged guilty if a person throws himself in front of your car while driving normally.

[dutchpuppy2]

@adstanra Yes, correct.

As for the second matter, I hope you can discuss your points, "in the flesh," with some "seven-days-a-week Christians WITH a sense of humor, as that helps, too. ;)

[melonbarmonster]

great stuff

[dailofan]

Dr. Tim Keller is such a great teacher and an inspiration!