at 4:11 Sheldon confuses negative reinforcement with punishment. Negative reinforcement is used to increase the frequency of a behavior whereas punishment is used to decrease the frequency of a behavior. Makes me question the accuracy of all kinds of scientific information he makes use of in his interactions in the show that I don't have the expertise to critically evaluate. Still a hilarious scene though.
Pavlov's experiment are respondent conditioning because the response was an "unconscious" response-salivating- this is operant conditioning because her leaving, speaking in a lower tone, moving from his chair are all behaviors that are not "unconscious". And the spraying her is not negative reinforcement - it is positive punishment. Negative in conditioning refers to the "removal of". Spraying or shocking is providing and aversive stimulus, and therefor is positive punishment.
"Positive = something is given whether it be something desirable as reinforcement (money, food, etc) or something bad as a positive punishment (a shock or slap, etc).
Negative = something is taken away, whether it something bad for reinforcement (eg: an electric shock is taken away) or something desirable as punishment (iPod etc is taken away)."
I absolutely HATE the laugh track to this show and other shows like this. 3rd Rock from the Sun has a bad laugh track. They play it at EVERYTHING, and it just most of the time isn't funny. This is one reason I like The Office, they let the audience decide what is funny.
@Mufflerb It's filmed in front of a live studio audience so the laughing you hear is the audience. However the more times the actors mess up their lines and scenes it may become less funny to the audience so they add more laughter during editing of the episode.
My year 12 Psychology teacher showed me this, and if I'm completely honest, I understood it perfectly because of this show. Apart from the minor error, he does really well, and I'm quite impressed with it. It's great to show things younger students would know such as the Big Bang Theory. We get to watch an awesome show and the teachers get us to learn. Win win? I think so!
I love this clip! It's great to show in Intro Psych. However, I hate that he's wrong on negative reinforcement wrong. My colleagues know I hate that so much that they bait me about it. I tell them about this over and over, warn them that it will be on the test, and 50% still get it wrong. I hate that! For such a smart show, you can still catch mistakes like this. But, I've seen people with PhD's in psych get it wrong, so whatcha gonna do?
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Omg we watched this in my psychology class last semester when we were studying how to condition each other. My teacher was laughing so freaking hard. lol
reinforcement is trying to get them to do (or continue doing) something
so it would just be punishment with the spray bottle for Leonard
the mild electric shock could be negative reinforcement, causing discomfort, & the chocolate positive reinforcement- to get her to do something.
Leonard thinking he was gonna spray her could be used as negative reinforcement could work, if it was spraying her unless she did something. that would be encouraging her
Sorry but you are getting punishment and reinforcement confused.
Positive reinforcement is getting rewarded e.g. Chocolate, toy etc, Negative reinforcement is removing something that would be a positive e.g. Well done, you dont have to do the dishes anymore (taking the 'negative' thing away as a reward)
but negative reinforcement is about removal of a noxious stimulus when a desired behaviour has been done. your example isn't that good, to be honest. you're attaching the term 'negative' to the wrong thing.
not having to do the dishes because one has engaged in a desired behaviour is actually a positive reinforcement: it is the application of a pleasant stimulus (freedom from having to do a household chore) for a desired behaviour.
hang on.. did you just read what you wrote? The negative stimulus (noxious is a term used to describe something that is harmful to a subject) is doing the dishes, removing it is negative reinforcement... removing the negative task. It would be better if you didn't know the term, just not to comment, instead of trying to confuse people who would like to understand the concept.
yes i DID read what you wrote. You didn't read whatI wrote, did you? noxious does not mean harmful to someone: it means unpleasant. your idea that doing dishes is a negative task is fallacious.
did you actually do a degree in psychology? did you do postgraduate study in it? you see, I did.
so i understand these terms very bloody well!
now, go and buy a book on psychology and learn properly before you try to have another go at me.
Yes Yes, you have a degree and you were caught out using a thesaurus incorrectly (It helps to use a dictionary if you are unsure of a meaning, go ahead, right now, look it up). Then start to get all up at arms about something you would not have argued about if you really did know the answer. All I am saying is if you don't understand, don't comment, most students have difficultly with the differences with Negative and Positive Punishment and Negative and Positive Reinforcement.
Is your degree in psychology? All my qualifications are.
I was commenting on your use of an example. It was wrong. How come you didn't get that?
Noxious, in psychological terms, is an unpleasant stimulus. At least - that's how it was used in the context of Lovaas' early work: it used electical shocks.
You obviously have problems reading for information. Leave me alone.
@psychobollox Honestly, does this make you feel better? It is sad that people with such "qualifications" bicker like children over who is the best and right.
was it actually worth a fucking answer, dipshit? fuck! i actually have to tell you WHY i didn't answer your question? how come you're so fucking stupid?
Sorry but you are getting punishment and reinforcement confused.
Positive reinforcement is getting rewarded e.g. Chocolate, toy etc, Negative reinforcement is removing something that would be a positive e.g. Well done, you don't have to do the dishes anymore (taking the 'negative' thing away as a reward)
actually, he does. the use of mild electric shocks applied before a desired behaviour is manded, coupled with its removal when it is engaged in, is indeed negative reinforcement. a mild electric shock applied after engaging in a non-desired behaviour is a positive punishment.
when desired behaviour occurs:
removal of noxious stimulus = negative reinforcement
application of pleasant stimulus = positive reinforcement
@penaran1 I thought the same thing but you can actually use this to encourage behavior you want such as being quite...the way he uses it does sound wrong but i believe you still might be able to employ it...i hate how complicated that gets.
@penaran1 It really frustrates me that they seem to have researched most of this so well and then they make such a major mistake (though to others it would seem minor). Perhaps they decided the general population wouldn't understand.
@Kasrith No, in that case, he's actually trying to DECREASE the frequency of an established behavior; by definition, that's punishment. And he's adding shocks to the system when she shows that behavior, which is positive, not negative.
@pacific14586 After thinking it over for a couple days (studying for a midterm lol) it's punishment because the Consequence of an action/behavior changes, not the Stimulus that causes it.
@Kasrith If you're discouraging a behavior, you're punishing. If you're encouraging a behavior, you're reinforcing. She already had the behavior, and his end goal was to make her stop. By definition, it can't be anything other than punishment.
The "punishment" aspect of it has nothing to do with the MEANS of conditioning. "Punishment" means decrease in existing behaviors.
i feel smart! i finally understand something on big bang!
BKInbound 15 hours ago
thumbs up if you're here for psych class..
Cash3194 1 day ago 10
Does anyone know which ep is it?
universorafa 3 days ago
soooo negative reinforcement is taking something away that we dont like.??
tonenay1 6 days ago
@tonenay1
Yep! Negative reinforcement is removing something undesirable to increase a behavior. ex) taking away chores because your child behaved.
NikkiiRae 6 days ago
oh STFU nobody cares from where have you been sent...just watch the damn video and give a useful comment
10tacl3 1 week ago
I got here through John Watson's Little Albert Experiment on behaviorism.
tambourinechick 1 week ago
we actually watched this in psychology class :D
wink0winkify 3 weeks ago 5
at 4:11 Sheldon confuses negative reinforcement with punishment. Negative reinforcement is used to increase the frequency of a behavior whereas punishment is used to decrease the frequency of a behavior. Makes me question the accuracy of all kinds of scientific information he makes use of in his interactions in the show that I don't have the expertise to critically evaluate. Still a hilarious scene though.
sehmuzakalin 3 weeks ago 9
Learning this in class right now. This is a great vid.
NIKONGUY1960 4 weeks ago
" bad lenard" LOVE IT!
srrrahh 1 month ago
10 people are freak-y-y!
SquareMaster316 1 month ago
they got negative reinforcement and punishment all mixed up.
FrankioloDiddlyDee 1 month ago
Funny :)
jhontil13 1 month ago
Comment removed
Jetro96 1 month ago
It's not a cartoon, it's ANIME~ > <
Lylu1227 1 month ago
Pavlov's experiment are respondent conditioning because the response was an "unconscious" response-salivating- this is operant conditioning because her leaving, speaking in a lower tone, moving from his chair are all behaviors that are not "unconscious". And the spraying her is not negative reinforcement - it is positive punishment. Negative in conditioning refers to the "removal of". Spraying or shocking is providing and aversive stimulus, and therefor is positive punishment.
b6hilton 1 month ago 4
@b6hilton
Correct! The spraying of water as a Consequence would indeed be Positive Punishment and not Negative Reinforcement :)
Jetro96 1 month ago
and it was originaly done with dogs
92jar 1 month ago
hate to say this that is classical condtioning founded by pavlov
92jar 1 month ago
@92jar This would be Operant as she is sitting in his seat which is behavioral not a stimulus like the food in Pavlov.
Opethorate 1 month ago
gotta love sheldon`s smile xD
baronkNightmare 1 month ago
i came here because i watched this in my AP psych class
DarkheroNateX 1 month ago
i love Sheldon! Thanks, now i get operant conditioning!
MsVanessa995 1 month ago
How does Sheldon not mention Pavlov?
Frodo2433 2 months ago 2
@Frodo2433 Pavlov dealt with classical conditioning, not operant
JU5TlN 1 month ago
@JU5TlN
Correct. Pavlov was Classic Conditioning where as B.F. Skinner was Operant Conditioning.
Jetro96 1 month ago
Loved this episode.
LBF522 2 months ago
we actually watched this in my Intro to Psychology class
blu3eyedgirlx 2 months ago
@blu3eyedgirlx This is a big stretch, but is Ms. Peterson you Psych teacher?
xNWOxAftermath 2 months ago
@xNWOxAftermath lol who? nahh i have Mr. Hart :)
blu3eyedgirlx 2 months ago
who knew that i can study while watching this :)
92ramiza 2 months ago
Ms. Frey's Class! Who's with me
abitran128 2 months ago
Please let me do well on my psych exam tomorrow! Lol
tiptopluongo 2 months ago
What season and episode is it?
BeutyKati 2 months ago
thanks to this video i got 4 questions right on my exam today :D!
fantacybab3 2 months ago
Haha we watched this today in my AP Psych class!
ChrsBrwnLver 2 months ago
9 people were operantly conditioned
fcodelreal99 2 months ago
So cool , I love Sheldon he's so bizarr lool
EmmanuelleGob971 2 months ago
Sheldon would emulate the Stanford prison experiment if it was to condition people to do what he wanted.
R0ckG1r7 2 months ago
B.F Skinner would be proud of this !
sexonlain 2 months ago
I'd worry if Sheldon ever tried repeating the Milgram experiment.
LancePoint9 2 months ago
A great example of Operant Conditioning.
xsvmaster 2 months ago
the squirt gun to the face was not negative reinforcement
superschmuck 2 months ago 8
Comment removed
Amieblossom 2 months ago
7 people are insupperable
calvinbush1 3 months ago
My psychology teacher showed this clip.
darkwarrior696 3 months ago 7
@darkwarrior696 Ms. Anderson?
Noctoural88 3 months ago
@Noctoural88 Mr. Perry.
darkwarrior696 3 months ago
B.F. Skinner would be turning in his grave if he knew his research would be done for evil.
R0ckG1r7 3 months ago 3
Thumbs up if you came here from a B. F. Skinner video about Operant Conditioning.
MikhailStepanskiy 3 months ago 64
@MikhailStepanskiy I came here from a Bandura video.
Eruantano 2 weeks ago
Thumbs up if PSYA01 kicks butt!
s786syed 3 months ago 9
thumbs up if joordens sent you
KidFabs 3 months ago 51
@KidFabs lolz!!! isnt he awesome??
MrFawkesthepheonix 3 months ago
@KidFabs what is joordens?
masteircheef 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
@KidFabs my psychology teacher sent me here actually
Favorites135 1 month ago 5
Hahaha and the reason I watched the video was cause I have an exam tomorrow on operant conditioning lol
TheGreekAstoria 3 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@MercuryDelay
wrong.
"Positive = something is given whether it be something desirable as reinforcement (money, food, etc) or something bad as a positive punishment (a shock or slap, etc).
Negative = something is taken away, whether it something bad for reinforcement (eg: an electric shock is taken away) or something desirable as punishment (iPod etc is taken away)."
Harder12 3 months ago
I absolutely HATE the laugh track to this show and other shows like this. 3rd Rock from the Sun has a bad laugh track. They play it at EVERYTHING, and it just most of the time isn't funny. This is one reason I like The Office, they let the audience decide what is funny.
Mufflerb 3 months ago 4
@Mufflerb It's filmed in front of a live studio audience so the laughing you hear is the audience. However the more times the actors mess up their lines and scenes it may become less funny to the audience so they add more laughter during editing of the episode.
derrickdlr 3 months ago
Reinforcement makes you happy, punishment makes you sad. Learn that, Sheldon!!!
blahblahblabbers 3 months ago
watched this in a seminar on behaviorism, and i almost died laughing^^
Fulgrim88 4 months ago
what episode is this from?
JMDMegaCorp 4 months ago
its a combo of both neg and pos.
my8villains 4 months ago
Am I one of the only people who isn't bothered by the laugh tracks? I watch this programme on my own and I find it awkward to laugh in silence.
Quacki29 4 months ago 2
Fucking laugh track man.
Crumblicous 4 months ago
"Would you like a chocolate?" "Sure." *laugh track*
"I believe offering chocolate to someone is nice." *laugh track*
"Now thats you obnoxious and insufferable." *laugh track*
"Have a chocolate." *laugh track* "Thank you" *another laugh track*
"It's not a cartoon, its anime." motherfucking LAUGH TRACK.
Seriously, was this whole segment created to classically condition the audience to rage whenever a laugh track is used on a show?
ShadowSora94 4 months ago
Comment removed
ShadowSora94 4 months ago
@ShadowSora94 Hahaha you cunt. It's a laugh track.
dbgizzy 4 months ago
@dbgizzy Aw hell. Well, i'll admit, that was a pretty bad spelling error(s) there. Thanks for pointing out.
Still doesn't change the fact they abused the hell out if it though
ShadowSora94 4 months ago
watched this in psych ;0) hahahaha.
svuandbonesfanatic 4 months ago
Fucking laugh tracks after every single sentence.
gundamaniac 4 months ago 2
@AlCodaProf
Nope, I'm from Minnesota.
Ninjaseye21 4 months ago
the person who "dislikes" this didnt get any chocolate...
xcpricex92 4 months ago 48
@xcpricex92 Probably Got Sprayed Too
irulurul 3 months ago
@xcpricex92 Wrong.They got water sprayed xD.
PCsasuke2 1 month ago
@xcpricex92 people are still disliking, im grabbing the spray bottle
masteircheef 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos 2
watch this in my psych class today! freakin awesome. haha
ttucvfd2010 4 months ago
Comment removed
ttucvfd2010 4 months ago
Dr. L's media extravaganza really works..I hope he doesn't have any implies bazinga's for friday's exam
monshi91 4 months ago
My Professor played this video today in Psy class, it really helped in understanding operant conditioning.
nwaigbo1 4 months ago
0 dislikes, youtube thinks sheldon can train her.
nightofthemars 4 months ago
Psych Exam Today and this helped
Z28swimmer 4 months ago in playlist Z28swimmer's favorites
Can you say V-Power?!?!
christopheragarcia 4 months ago
Psyc 120.
Boiler up
unchrted3 4 months ago
VERY helpful in studying for my psyc midterm.
uilliu 4 months ago
Interesting....sex works even better than chocolate to modify behavior. Wonder if anyone else's stumbled unto that....Lol
MrSlickazs 4 months ago
pretty cool! except it wasn't negative reinforcement but positive punishment when sheldon suggested electric shock
Dew649 4 months ago
ugh, you 'psych' majors need to get over it. just replace negative reinforcement with punishment and you're set. sheldon misspoke get over it.
iPriestHolmes 5 months ago
@iPriestHolmes Sheldon is a character in a TV show. He didn't "misspeak." It's called bad writing.
alehizzle 4 months ago
@alehizzle No Way!!!! Sheldon is a character in a TV show?? (bazinga)
whether i was referring to the character misspeaking or your nescient labeling of the writing as 'bad'... one thing is for certain. GET OVER IT
iPriestHolmes 4 months ago
Pure psychology!
xDGrunkeeoP 5 months ago
Very useful! ^^
ShikaTrinity 5 months ago
i love sheldon's bazingas XD psychology just got a whole lot more interesting XD
xdeathnoteanimedudex 5 months ago
My year 12 Psychology teacher showed me this, and if I'm completely honest, I understood it perfectly because of this show. Apart from the minor error, he does really well, and I'm quite impressed with it. It's great to show things younger students would know such as the Big Bang Theory. We get to watch an awesome show and the teachers get us to learn. Win win? I think so!
marsfireignite03 6 months ago
Offering someone chocolate IS the definition of being nice!!!!!
LuleyBelle 6 months ago
I love this clip! It's great to show in Intro Psych. However, I hate that he's wrong on negative reinforcement wrong. My colleagues know I hate that so much that they bait me about it. I tell them about this over and over, warn them that it will be on the test, and 50% still get it wrong. I hate that! For such a smart show, you can still catch mistakes like this. But, I've seen people with PhD's in psych get it wrong, so whatcha gonna do?
tigress606 6 months ago
fn halarious
omgrachelbaby 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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Antony6218 9 months ago
0 people were negitiv....oh wait.....
Zorlak108 9 months ago
Omg we watched this in my psychology class last semester when we were studying how to condition each other. My teacher was laughing so freaking hard. lol
Lyns18plus 10 months ago
best video to explain psychology thanks
therealsteve2437 11 months ago
Negative reinforcement is STILL reinforcement.
reinforcement is trying to get them to do (or continue doing) something
so it would just be punishment with the spray bottle for Leonard
the mild electric shock could be negative reinforcement, causing discomfort, & the chocolate positive reinforcement- to get her to do something.
Leonard thinking he was gonna spray her could be used as negative reinforcement could work, if it was spraying her unless she did something. that would be encouraging her
Micamone 11 months ago
@Micamone
Sorry but you are getting punishment and reinforcement confused.
Positive reinforcement is getting rewarded e.g. Chocolate, toy etc, Negative reinforcement is removing something that would be a positive e.g. Well done, you dont have to do the dishes anymore (taking the 'negative' thing away as a reward)
snotgoblin040 11 months ago
@snotgoblin040
you're right about positive reinforcement.
but negative reinforcement is about removal of a noxious stimulus when a desired behaviour has been done. your example isn't that good, to be honest. you're attaching the term 'negative' to the wrong thing.
not having to do the dishes because one has engaged in a desired behaviour is actually a positive reinforcement: it is the application of a pleasant stimulus (freedom from having to do a household chore) for a desired behaviour.
psychobollox 9 months ago
@psychobollox
hang on.. did you just read what you wrote? The negative stimulus (noxious is a term used to describe something that is harmful to a subject) is doing the dishes, removing it is negative reinforcement... removing the negative task. It would be better if you didn't know the term, just not to comment, instead of trying to confuse people who would like to understand the concept.
snotgoblin040 9 months ago
@snotgoblin040
yes i DID read what you wrote. You didn't read whatI wrote, did you? noxious does not mean harmful to someone: it means unpleasant. your idea that doing dishes is a negative task is fallacious.
did you actually do a degree in psychology? did you do postgraduate study in it? you see, I did.
so i understand these terms very bloody well!
now, go and buy a book on psychology and learn properly before you try to have another go at me.
psychobollox 9 months ago
@psychobollox
Yes Yes, you have a degree and you were caught out using a thesaurus incorrectly (It helps to use a dictionary if you are unsure of a meaning, go ahead, right now, look it up). Then start to get all up at arms about something you would not have argued about if you really did know the answer. All I am saying is if you don't understand, don't comment, most students have difficultly with the differences with Negative and Positive Punishment and Negative and Positive Reinforcement.
snotgoblin040 9 months ago
@snotgoblin040
you have a serious Dunning-Kruger thing going on.
Is your degree in psychology? All my qualifications are.
I was commenting on your use of an example. It was wrong. How come you didn't get that?
Noxious, in psychological terms, is an unpleasant stimulus. At least - that's how it was used in the context of Lovaas' early work: it used electical shocks.
You obviously have problems reading for information. Leave me alone.
psychobollox 9 months ago
@psychobollox Honestly, does this make you feel better? It is sad that people with such "qualifications" bicker like children over who is the best and right.
WhoisJacqueFresco 7 months ago
@WhoisJacqueFresco
don't wanna see? don't fucking read, then, stupid!
psychobollox 7 months ago
@psychobollox ..... you still never answered the question lol
WhoisJacqueFresco 7 months ago
@WhoisJacqueFresco
was it actually worth a fucking answer, dipshit? fuck! i actually have to tell you WHY i didn't answer your question? how come you're so fucking stupid?
psychobollox 6 months ago
@psychobollox OK MR RAWR PRETEND TO BE HIPPY GUITARIST ANSWER THE QUESTION!
WhoisJacqueFresco 6 months ago
@psychobollox lol thanks for a laugh
cocoloco39 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Micamone
Sorry but you are getting punishment and reinforcement confused.
Positive reinforcement is getting rewarded e.g. Chocolate, toy etc, Negative reinforcement is removing something that would be a positive e.g. Well done, you don't have to do the dishes anymore (taking the 'negative' thing away as a reward)
snotgoblin040 11 months ago
@Micamone
Yep.
You're right.
psychobollox 9 months ago
I thought the same thing! It's positive punishment what he did with the water bottle...
MsSkylarAnnie 11 months ago 8
@MsSkylarAnnie
the water bottle thing - yes, that was positive punishment.
psychobollox 9 months ago
Obviously, waitressing at the Cheesecake Factory is a complex socio-economic activity that requires a great deal of analysis and planning......
....
BAZINGA.....
gdkzen 1 year ago 4
apart from he doesn't understand what negative reinforcement is...
penaran1 1 year ago 55
@penaran1
actually, he does. the use of mild electric shocks applied before a desired behaviour is manded, coupled with its removal when it is engaged in, is indeed negative reinforcement. a mild electric shock applied after engaging in a non-desired behaviour is a positive punishment.
when desired behaviour occurs:
removal of noxious stimulus = negative reinforcement
application of pleasant stimulus = positive reinforcement
seems you don't understand what R- is.
psychobollox 9 months ago
@penaran1 I thought the same thing but you can actually use this to encourage behavior you want such as being quite...the way he uses it does sound wrong but i believe you still might be able to employ it...i hate how complicated that gets.
Gmagy88 8 months ago
@penaran1 yep, he means positive punishment
BeeTeeBeeAyEm 7 months ago
@penaran1 It really frustrates me that they seem to have researched most of this so well and then they make such a major mistake (though to others it would seem minor). Perhaps they decided the general population wouldn't understand.
xoxomeomi 5 months ago
@penaran1
My teacher pointed that out in class today
AlCodaProf 4 months ago
@penaran1 Yeah. I'm surprised they got positive punishment wrong :/
reicalg3 4 months ago
@penaran1 I'm no professional or anything, just a student covering this material right now...
Negative reinforcement: the taking away of an aversive stimulus to increase certain behavior or response.
So wouldn't the electric shocks be negative reinforcement? Decreasing them as the desired behavior increases? In this case the lowering of her voice?
Kasrith 4 months ago
@Kasrith No, in that case, he's actually trying to DECREASE the frequency of an established behavior; by definition, that's punishment. And he's adding shocks to the system when she shows that behavior, which is positive, not negative.
pacific14586 4 months ago
@pacific14586 I see, thanks for the response.
Kasrith 4 months ago
@pacific14586 After thinking it over for a couple days (studying for a midterm lol) it's punishment because the Consequence of an action/behavior changes, not the Stimulus that causes it.
Kasrith 4 months ago
@Kasrith If you're discouraging a behavior, you're punishing. If you're encouraging a behavior, you're reinforcing. She already had the behavior, and his end goal was to make her stop. By definition, it can't be anything other than punishment.
The "punishment" aspect of it has nothing to do with the MEANS of conditioning. "Punishment" means decrease in existing behaviors.
pacific14586 4 months ago
@pacific14586 Its negative reinforcement. When she willingly admits shes wrong she gets the candy.
Or am i too tired for this?
DarkNshY 4 months ago
@DarkNshY It doesn't matter, she is still decreasing her behaviour because of it, therefore its (positive) punishment.
Right pacific14586?
Kasrith 4 months ago
Loved it. Going to post it on my facebook page. I am a dog trainer who uses positive reinforcement and this is really cool!
UKExile06 1 year ago 3
So did we..muktown?
ChildOffAcid 1 year ago
Watched this in class. Loved it!
Ninjaseye21 1 year ago 66
@Ninjaseye21 so did we! today lol
imalovinthejonasbros 1 year ago
@Ninjaseye21 Same here.
Are you a NY student?
AlCodaProf 4 months ago
@Ninjaseye21 gmu?
cacjad 4 months ago