Arguments to defeat capitalists: theories of human nature: Kropotkin vs. Hobbes

[CommunistNewZealand]

you an analyse the internal "ought" all f..............day if you want

[AwakeAndDangerous]

Forget Hobbes. Tell me why the government ought to have any authority over what I produce, sell, or buy.

[CommunistNewZealand]

@AwakeAndDangerous

Socialist states have planned economies. There's still supply and demand, but a complex series of plans are drafted up based upon the needs of citizens. Of course the socialist state controls what you produce etc, as does the capitalist state. In reality there exists no completely "free" market.

In the higher phase of Comunist society probably none of the above controls will exist.

[tomsinclairjr]

Just plain CRAP. God intended that economies be 'supply and demand' and 'thrive or fail' and not be bailed out as this moronic president in the USA is doing. Whenever you bail out businesses, the government gets bigger and then the people lose their freedoms. THAT'S PROGRESSIVISM, Marxist, Socialist, and just plain EVIL.

[CommunistNewZealand]

@tomsinclairjr lol very amusing. As soon as you employ the noble title "God" any credibility you may have had instantly dissovles

[COMMUNISTPHILOSOPHY]

@tomsinclairjr socialism still has supply and demand

[crud4]

We can look at this from three different angles. One being the "street code" which dictates death to "snitches" [fear]. The other being the capitalist's interpretation of Darwin or egoism which dictates the prisoner will "snitch" on the other and the final angle would be they would both keep their mouths shut out of a mutual respect or friendship without saying a word to the police. All three scenarios are happening everyday. Humans can be both egoists and altruistic.

[crud4]

We can look at this from three different angles. One being the "street code" which dictates death to "snitches" [fear]. The other being the capitalist's interpretation of Darwin or egoism which dictates the prisoner will "snitch" on the other and the final angle would be they would both keep their mouths shut out of a mutual respect or friendship without saying a word to the police. All three scenarios are happening everyday. Humans can be both egoists and altruistic.

[RedNickII]

Interesting. Don't forget Oscar Wilde. You should read his essay "The Soul of Man Under Socialism." You will find it useful.

It seems as if the first and second Hobbes quotes are somewhat anti-capitalist, seeing as how libertarians and anarcho-capitalists always argue against the need for a state. Maybe I just misunderstood the quotes.

[Guevaristas]

good, will read it, thanks.

The post-revolutionary Proletarian State is essential, however, under pure Communism there State has "withered away".

[GeckoPresident]

Yeah, John Nash had some mathematical theories where he tried to prove that what's best for everyone comes from everyone doing what's best for themselves. He later went back on these theories and even blames his schizophrenia for causing him to come to dreary conclusions about human natures.

Hey I love bonobo's!!

[CommunistNewZealand]

Bascially, Hobbes was saying, to simplify enormously, that people have a somewhat mechanical human nature, one that is fixed, immutable, unchangeable.

People are inexorable driven towards what "they" desire -being their own felicity.

Ultimately desires between individuals conflict, a war of all against all ensues. Thus the necessation of a State becomes apparent.

Every person must relinquish the abosolute authority over themselves to a higher order know as the State.

[CommunistNewZealand]

oh yea, for sure. Take a look at the Prisoners' dilemma (spell chec.)

John Nash? Do you have a link, book etc?

[GeckoPresident]

No, sorry. Check him out on Wikipedia: John Forbes Nash. I thought everyone knew who he was because the movie "A Beautiful Mind" about him was real popular in America, don't know about New Zealand though.

[CaptainBluebear08]

The Leviathan is the great white wale like Moby Dick.

[Guevaristas]

riviting