Krav Maga (FrontLine Krav Maga) - Hostage gun defense tactic

[samhainaz]

in reality mostof the time the gun is held at the victims head so they already know not to move the gun away to point at anyone else becaus they know there might be resistance so if you move then bang youre dead.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

@samhainaz The gun defense with the gun at the head as you describe is not difficult. Either hold... this is a very defensible threat. Thanks for posting.

[svenzondervan]

very good, but got a question. Wouldn't the guy who he is pointing the gun to shoot because of the sudden movement?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

@svenzondervan  Anything is possible but reality is if you redirect the firearm away and down from the others the chances of hitting anyone is extremely minimal at best.

[NothingAtAllXD]

Assuming he doesn't have a knife in the other hand! :)

[BaronNathanel]

excellent instructional video. very clear speaking and concise directions. I enjoyed this thoroughly. i've never practiced K.M. but i was in the army and observed some troops in tel aviv practicing this style. After training in martial arts (shotokan,tkd,hapkido,judo,ken­do) since i was 3, i was impressed with the techniques i saw. thank you for taking time to share your knowledge with us my friend. I'll pass this on to friends.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

@BaronNathanel Thank you for the kind words. I also teach another slight modification against this threat. Will post it soon. Thank you again.

[BaronNathanel]

@FrontlineKravMaga outstanding, looking forward to your instruction.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

well said MfalmeBwana....

[MfalmeBwana]

Surprise is a martial artists only hope against a gun.Guns and firearm technologies are the ultimate martial art of killing. Hand to hand combat is obsolete compared to these. Note that the introduction of firearms in Japan ended the centuries old Samurai culture. The only thing we as martial artists can do when it comes to guns is learn to use them safely, as for learning gun disarms never try them in real life unless you're close enough and are ready to kill or die if you make a mistake.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

Nothing is perfect, and the mere fact that you have a gun to your head to begin with indicates that you are having a REAL BAD DAY, and somewhere down the line your defensive training broke down at a fundamental level ( i.e. how did you go from eating breakfast to a gun to your head). sometimes SHIT HAPPENS. I assure you that Mr.Seid goes through great pains to evaluate and pressure test these disarms, and to adapt and evolve technique to become efficient and effective.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

sure there are measured risks in "grabbing" the gun itself, but there is NO better way to control the muzzle of the weapon than direct manipulation. I have studied many martial disiplines to include jujutsu, filipino kali, and krav maga. Mr.Seid's methods are spot on and very effective.. to the point of myself becoming a FRONTLINE KRAV MAGA instructor. Remember these methods were not "made up" in the "dojo". They have been battle tested by the Israeli army initially.

[HYBRIDCOMBATIVES]

cashman2k.... that is not a correct way to view the situation. Your primary mission in self-defense is to STOP the ACTION of the attacker. Using lethal force may be the only way to do that, but assuming that you "MUST KILL THE ASSAILANT" is territory that can land you in prison even if it saved your life. The techniques that Mr.Seid are teaching are sound in their concept and delivery.

[cashman2k]

HYBRID'

You're stating a philosphy as though it's a universal fact. My "primary mission" in self defense is to take down an assailant to whatever extent necessary as the situation warrants. I'm not worried about going to jail if someone threatens me with a gun and discharges it. That's the wrong view. When a guy is lying there dead with his prints on a discharged weapon (because I didn't grab it), I like my chances with the authorities.

[fernandogeorge]

Very good!

But!

If his finger is on the trigger and you press down the gun as he said, he probably will shoot your foot!

Even if he doesn't want do to it!

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hello Fernando,

You raise a point I should have more clearly emphasized. Muzzle control of the line of fire is extremely important. As their arm is brought up and the weapon is taken their finger will come off the trigger prior to the foot becoming the line of fire. So it is important to understand that the arm MUST be taken up as the gun is disarmed. We also utilize if necessary an underhand grab to the gun. Thanks for your post.

[fernandogeorge]

Yess I agree!

I am sorry by the way for saying that, when I made the comment, I just've seen the whole video, and then I saw that it is very efficient!

Congratulations and thanks for posting this videos!

[cashman2k]

The video, IMO, is credible, and the resposes here are very good. I would however, respectfully, disagree with grabbing a gun in this manner. The gunman is so vunerable from the elbow to the gun during his extension that it would be easy to control and peel the weapon. Meanwhile if I may share another point of view: my training dictates that if a gun ever discharges during an encounter, the automatic response is to kill the assailant (because you have to assume you've been shot). Good video!

[ColonelMarksman]

The very easiest thing to do, ever IMHO, is what I instictively do when someone grabs me from behind. Drop my weight. That one arm is now having to hold up all 160 lbs of my body, and I doubt he can arm-curl 160 lbs. The attacker's thought would be that I am fainting. The automatic body response to someone going limp in your arm, is to hold them up with both arms. It also helps because when the bodies are lowered, it negates size issues.

[TwoTube2]

I like that idea. Never thought about it, but that sounds like a cunning method of defence :)

[huizen07]

Have you ever been in this situation b4?

[MoR91Ga]

it makes me uneasy to see you jostle the gun mans hand and arm like that. I would imagine he has safety off and finger on trigger. then to come up that aggressively it makes me wounder if making an attempt while the firearm is pointed and head/neck area is a good idea?Also what if it is a revolver, the gases would escape through the gap in the cylinder and can cause serious damage. you are grabbing the gun in the center which is exactly where the gas is.Thank you for your videos very informal.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi MoR91Ga, unfortunately, we have to deal with the hand we are dealt. There are risks when confronted with a life threatening situation. So aggressive and decisive action must trump reaction. I am not minimizing the danger but neither the jostling or release of the gases are the problem. The problem is the shock value of the noise if the gun discharges. Thank you for your post and kind words. Good questions.

[MoR91Ga]

thanks for the clarification, it is different when I'm at my chair pondering. if I was put in the situation these would most definitely be my actions. thanks for the information, keep it coming!!!

[ColonelMarksman]

You also have to keep in mind that someone who takes you hostage will do so because they wrongly believe you will do nothing but panic. They pick the "weak" people for hostages. Anything you do for self defense will become so unexpected, by the time you move your arm up, twist your body, get the gun out of danger, and hit him, his brain JUST realized something is wrong. By then, its took late. The brain acts too slow and the gun is no longer there when the trigger is pulled.

[RexGladius]

Umm do you got a video about how to defend yourself if the gunman is behind you?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Rex, please explain the threat with more detail. Gun to the side or back of head with the attacker behind?

[RexGladius]

back of the head, and it isn't directly up to ur head either. the gun would be a few inches away from the head

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Rex, I am planning to shoot some material this week. Will shoot your request and try to get it up on youtube within a week or so. Bear with me. I have a busy week. Regards, Rick

[RexGladius]

Ok thx very much I appreciate it.

[chingy3227]

can u show us how to defend ourselves when a gun is pointed at us ??(mobile snacthing..etc.)

[FrontlineKravMaga]

From the front basic hold or a different threat?

[chingy3227]

ya , from the front or sometimes when we r mugged . its usually like guys jumping out from bikes and mugging us , sometimes from the back , sometimes from the front.

[ImaginativeBrowsing]

hey, just a question. if u actually catch the gun like this and the weapon fires, wont it hurt your hand? of all the blowback and thing...

[FrontlineKravMaga]

No. Actually the problem is the sound. Most people that have never fired a weapon or been near when a weapon is fired are jolted by the sound of the bang!!! Adrenaline and the expectation of the sound will minimize the reaction to the sound. We set up visits to the shooting range periodically so students can get used to the sound and power of a gun. 2 of my students are concealed weapons instructors as well. In Israel it is common to hold a gun when fired for the training. Legal issues in USA.

[skwerril]

when you pull the gun away will it break the gunman's trigger finger? and is it easier to pistol whip him/her or punch/kick?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Skwerril. This particular disarm has a lower likelihood of breaking the finger because of the angle of which it is taken. I do have a finger-break disarm from this scenario when we grab the gun with palm up. I will be changing out this clip with a slight modification I added due to something a friend overseas named Mike referenced. It minimizes the danger/risk of this scenario enough where I think it adds even more value to this response. Check back in a few weeks. go to part 2

[FrontlineKravMaga]

part 2 Tactically whether you punch/kick or use the pistol to strike is based on what is most available dependent how you disengage from the attacker. As a side note, when striking with the gun strike forward only with the hole of the barrel or the forward strike with the hammer end. Always be sure the line of fire is ALWAYS away from you. Notice here when I strike with the gun, I am sure to have the line of fire, should the gun discharge, be pointed away from me. Thanks for posting.

[drdeathakamyzfit]

very nice technique

[P8ntB4ller77]

i hav a question. if u were to grab the top of the gun like that and it did discharge wouldnt it cut hell out of your hand?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

P8nT, your question is a good one and frequently asked. Answer = NO. First it will probably discharge so you must mentally prepare for this. That said, if you grab it well, it will prevent the slide from moving to expel the shell and re-chamber another bullet. Thus it will most often jam the gun as you take it. Also this is a hostage scenario. Once you disarm, drop down and away and let the police take him out. A revolver cylinder won't spin. Thanks for your comment.

[lordscrub]

I have a question: I noticed while you were doing this you never touched on the fact the guy could do you a number of things with the free hand, for example claw to the eyes, punch to the back of the head/neck etc, I look foward to your reply, and I hope it does not include the guy's inteligence as a factor

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Lordscrub, you ask a good question and a problematic concern first pointed out by Galacticus. Plus I should have addressed this. These uploads I basically just turn on the camera and go. So I may not stress a point or I may even forget to deal with a point. OK, the advantage you have IN THIS HOSTAGE SITUATION is that the attacker is focused on those he is pointing the gun at (SWAT, Police or someone else). Your swift action gets the jump on the attacker. go to part 2

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2 I use this particular gun disarm because it is quicker than what you will see other Krav examples use in this scenario. Gun comes out quickly and by being turned the defender need get proactive and attack IMMEDIATELY otherwise the attacker WILL. In an off youtube discussion my friend Galacticus suggested an immediate shoulder barge / bump which adds value to this response and if you aren't quick it is what you better do. go to part 3

[FrontlineKravMaga]

part 3 Another aspect I teach for THIS scenario is once you get the gun.. drop to the ground and let the Police or SWAT take the guy out. Remember what this scenario is. When I teach a similar rear gun threat "Arm around neck gun at your temple" I incorporate a butt bump (disrupt his balance) take gun and curl forward and toward the attacker to strike immediately. It makes him grabbing you difficult at best if you move swiftly. Hopefully I wrote this with clarity. Good question Lordscrub

[LUNATICPANDORA19]

The other thing I was wondering was does this defence work if your attacker is bigger and stronger than you? I worry that because I'm female these techniques wouldn't work as effectively for me; even when someone grabbed me as a joke I couldn't get him off me.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Luna, I dont mislead anyone. There is no doubt that certain (not necessarily this) scenarios.. size and strength are issues. That said I make and test modifications to scenarios for my female or even smaller male students. Some situations are tougher than others. I also want women to "stun and run" There are exceptions but to expect a woman to stand and slug it out with a larger man is not realistic. read part 2 please

[FrontlineKravMaga]

part 2 Luna, Regarding someone grabbing you as a joke. This is hard because you probably tried to wrestle yourself free when the response should have been a headbutt busting his nose open. Or a finger jab wrecking his eye or biting half his ear off. Responses you wont do in a playful encounter. But those may be the responses necessary for a path to safety. Hit him hard once in the face or groin and they wont play as much.

[LUNATICPANDORA19]

Thanks for that. It worried me that I wouldn't have known what to do in a real encounter, and when it happened I didn't know it was one of my friends messing around, he sneaked up on me while I was shopping. So thank you :)

[LUNATICPANDORA19]

And would that work if you couldn't use either of your hands?

[LUNATICPANDORA19]

Hi, great video. But what would you do if he had one of your arms behind you and was holding you like that, instead of round your neck with both your arms free?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Luna, actually the question you pose offers easier solutions. By easier I DONT mean not dangerous. Without being sure on the arm hold you mean this offers a possibility to spin out and behind the gunmen for a takedown. Also depending on the hold just drop to the left and let the police sniper take him out. Remember this scenario the gunmen's attention is focused on the rescuers. But even still.. fast quick action must be taken if you decide to go for it.

[taodruid]

HAving been in the martial arts for 35 years now, much of that time working in international executive protection, I must say I appreciated your approach here. Simple, and capitalizing on the attacker's divided focus. We use alot of what I call 'in-line ' binds against the elbow and wrist as well (binding the elbow in a direction it is not designed to move in ). So, thank you for posting this.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Taodruid, Your comment is greatly appreciated.

[Animefreak020]

remember the Holocoast

[trv1911]

Go Israel

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2 Waveman.

I am in the planning stages for a weeklong summer course in Orlando. Also in 2 other parts of the country West coast and Midwest this summer. You will learn more in that week than you will ever learn at Victory. Truth be told, I wish they and others taught great Krav. So far they have only contributed in damaging the image and reputation of Krav Maga. Contact me for details on upcoming training in Orlando I will conduct.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Waveman, You are correct. If you read my explanation here what has happened to Krav in the states has been horrible. Very few of us left teaching authentic Krav Maga. Myself and one other in Florida. I actually have someone that travels from Orlando (Victory Martial arts former student) couple times a month. Learns more with me in a weekend than learned in a year there. Not to mention what she learns here is REAL Krav Maga. Go to Part 2

[Galacticus07]

another good example of crap krav is this kravcam guys post on knife against the throat defence ,,,guy parries and begins a relentless attack whilst the knife holder does nothing not even pulling the blade back to stab nor strike with his other hand...only someone who watches seagals movies would believe that ...krav maga is has become a joke as you said ...I teach C.Q.C (krav+military ju jitsu and mma etc) thats why teach UN/US troops in middle east plus 3 years of K2K TRAINING

[highspeed777]

nah the system isnt crap My teachers growing up were amazing however ive been to other places and ....yes it was horrible I even kinda had to hint in (not to make the instructor look retarded) certain things in the technique he left out so for me its mainly the teacher the systems really good the swat guys i knew in class and the LA swat cop i talked to enjoyed the techniques taught and said they were simple and effective its just a shame theyre arent that many great teachers out there

[Galacticus07]

krav has been around for some 20 years ...to military ...its just today that we see it waterdown for the civilians morons to learnt it

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Galacticus, I know you are thinking I am going to disagree with you here. Actually, I agree 100% with the exception of the word morons. Your responses actually put you in that category. Anyway, my instructor was Eli Avikzar, head of Krav Maga for Israel's military for 12 years. I say the following with pain in my heart. Krav Maga has been degraded to cardio in most USA classes due to KMAA. go to part 2

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2 -What has happened to Krav in USA is a shame and a sham. Martial Art schools with so called certified instructors that have trained 1 week in Los Angeles organization (KMAA) fill the USA. My students learn more in 2 months than these instructors know teaching for years. It has become cardio Krav. Lousy tactics mixed with 70% push ups and sit-ups because the instructors have limited Krav knowledge. There are VERY FEW of us teaching authentic Krav Maga. go to part 3

[FrontlineKravMaga]

"he's a big guy he may have sufficient power to effectively choke you or fend you off during your move."

If he thought I would make a defense he wouldn't be standing that close pointing the gun at someone. Surprise action puts the defender in position of advantage immediately and quickly. go to part 3

[FrontlineKravMaga]

When I teach seminars I often have the largest and strongest in the group be the attacker. I also tell them when I respond do whatever you think you can including pulling the trigger of the gun. Making them aware of a defense coming. Action beats reaction is what I can tell you. If possible we can talk about a seminar in your area. Ask Fred.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

I think I didnt address if choked or grabbed effectively. We already are striking or fighting. Knee or headbutt is very effective here as well. Gun control or disarm is primary at this point. One last comment. If police are lined up in front, I also teach the defender to disarm and drop. Let the police take him out.

[boringgrass]

nice video

[la0zboi]

i was alwauys on the conception that the part of the gun you're attempting to grab gets hot if the gunman fires out of panic. true or not?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi LaOzboi, In short, there is not a problem holding the barrel. The noise of the discharge can be problematic or unnerving if not expected. Many Krav Maga students have trained by holding a pistol as it is fired. Search here on youtube for "Gaby Noah tactical Gun" An example can be seen in this link about :50 in. The hand will get gun powder from the discharge. Enjoy.

[DragnGo]

wouldnt ur skin get caught in the barrel thing when the cartridge comes out? sorry if im not using the correct terminology.

[blackbtty123]

If the gun is an automatic, maybe. What is a pinch in hand compared to getting shot? It's also possible that your hand holding the slide will prevent the action from cycling. If the gun is a revolver, your hand will get powder burns when the gun goes off, but these are very minor. The important thing is obviously to keep the weapon pointed away from you.

[DragnGo]

i thought maybe if a chunk of meat got lodged in, it would make it difficult to twist the gun out of the guys hand.

[scottrchick]

When you take the gun, why do you point it at yourself? You dont know this mans gun the trigger could be FUBAR'd and go off at the slightest touch.Then wouldnt you get shot if the muzzle is facing you?

[FrontlineKravMaga]

First Scottrchick I appreciate your comment.

But your eyes are mistaken and deceiving you. The gun NEVER crosses or points at my body. Plus I explain to redirect away from others it might be pointing at. Rather than repeat the similar discussion I had with ChiefFC, read the associated comments of a few weeks ago. They will answer your question in detail.

[Galacticus07]

SORRY DONT AGREE!! HAVING MILITARY AND CQC EXPERIENCE IN KOSOVO AND IRAQ ..the situation i witness on two events myslef is that the guy holding will either pull away and drag you down or spin away and strike and you will loose the gun..a dead german krav maga guy in kosvo in 97 will testify to this

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hello Galacticus, after 2 months of leaving the "ugly" side of our discussion up here I felt it was time to take it off. It brought no value to the discussion of the tactic itself that it should have. Anyway, as I was removing the comments I reread your initial comment and feel it has merit of discussion. go to part 2

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Pt 2 I present this tactic in a learning format and also allude that immediately upon capture / disarm of the weapon the defender must get proactive and mount an attack. Otherwise you accurately relate that the "bad Guy" will choke grab or attack you from behind causing the big problem you presented. go to part 3

[FrontlineKravMaga]

part 3 The speed in which you go, must be with surprise to the attacker as much as your attack MUST be fierce and relentless. Remember as well, that if the "Bad Guy" is focused on others as this Hostage scenario is presented, then this decreases the danger of this response. We train this, as all of our training at full speed and try to recreate reality as best as can be in practice.

[Galacticus07]

yep ,,,but i got you thinking didnt i? that was my aim and i repeat i do that with all krav instructors ,why beacause evey krav instructor works with dummies and demos with students who just fall for every responced as planned ..try doing that with my students and you end up humilated ..i agree that the guns focus is infront of him,but he will ,i repeat will pull then the technique will change and you will end up on the floor 70% of the time.good luck in your research..

[darkmacry]

@Galacticus07 Hey Galacticus. I respect what you do but normally if you are an instructor, you do not need to show off how strong your students are and you are too, Because this mean that you are insecure of yourself. Now here you re talking one of the great master Rick Seid which has been taught by Eli Avikzar ( first Black Belt by Imi) You re guys are maybe stronger because they have a military training but we are civilians and want also to defend ourselves. At least cheer us to learn stuff

[Galacticus07]

AT THE POINT WHEN YOU SAY "SHIFT MY BODY AND NUDGE HIM THATS WHEN HE PULLS YOU DOWN WITH HIM TO RETAIN HIS GUN AND ALSO WHEN YOU SAY "TIME TO FLY THATS AGAIN ANOTHER CHANCE ..HE WILL HOLD ON TO YOU ..TRUST ME I KNOW ...BUT MY FRIEND ..good luck cos you are the best ...take care ..got some extraction team guys to train tomo ...

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Galacticus, thanks for the nice words, unfortunately I went to remove the duplicate and it somehow removed both. Anyway, your points are valid. At real speed one must move quickly and forcefully. A bump into the attacker to unsteady him is helpful. Truth be told I just turn on the camera and go. No real pre-plan. Probably should because I find every so often I leave out an important detail. I actually make these for my students review. Be well.

[Waveman617]

So I want to learn Krav Maga. But the only place to learn here in florida is Victory Martial Arts. Now I learned a long time ago that if you want serious self defense you don't go to a school that has the kids black belt club in the morn and "Krav Maga" at night. What to do and where do I go?

[sherwinlouie029]

how if the line of the gun is directly on your head?? what are you going to do in that situation??

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hi Sherwinlouie

I am restructuring my site (listed at the end of this clip) to offer for a one time subscription, tactics to deal with almost every possible scenario including what you are asking about. It will be ready within a couple weeks. Thank you for your question.

[EGarrett01]

Can you really do that without the gun going off at least once while pointed at the target?

[ShwaNerd]

You can never be 100% sure of course, but if you are fast and properly trained, you stand an extremely good chance of survival. The gun could still go off, but it may either miss completely, or at least damage a less vital area. If you're like Chuck Norris fast, you could even point the gun at the attacker and have him shoot himself!

[Duffman0]

wont the slide mess up your hand

[ShwaNerd]

Probably not; the slide can apparently be held in place just with your hand. Which means the gun may fire, but a new round will not be chambered unless the assailant (or you :D) cocks the slide again. Just be careful with revolvers; they'll keep firing unless you block the hammer!

[edmurchie]

No, actually with revolvers, if your hand is tightly around the cylinder (and in the above shown move, it could well be), the assailant will be unable to pull the trigger and fire.

[bakakata]

The slide itself, isnt much to worry about when the worst case is getting shot. The one and only major concern while holding onto the gun while it goes off, is the extremly hot gases and slower burning gun powder being expelled (several hundred degrees fahrenheit) The exposure is momentary, long enough to create 2nd degree burns, but over a very limited portion of the hand (localizied to the immediate exposure) -b boy

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Actually bakakata, holding the gun is not a problem. Many of us have held a gun as it is fired to get the feel of this situation. Even the recoil is not difficult to deal with. What can be a problem is the sound of the weapon firing. This is something that one needs to hear and to expect. Thank you for your comment.

[bakakata]

Simple answer, dont test it using blanks. Field results from police and military show high levels of temporary blindness when a gun is fired near the face (due to flash and mostly heat exposure). Holding JUST the slide you wont get burned... but place your hand directly over the ejector port (where the brass flies out) and you will receive 1st to 2nd degree burns depending on the caliber, the ammunition and particular model/design of the gun.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Weapons of all calibers are used in our training. Bottom line is this. The last thing I am thinking about when someone is threatening to turn me into swiss cheese is a burnt hand. These are tried and proven tactics in real life. We teach to rely on knowledge, adrenaline, fighter's spirit and training experience. NOT be afraid of the ifs and maybes, unless one chooses a victim mentality.

[bakakata]

This is pointless and a waste of my damn time to be arguing, I was simply stating the possibility and chances of getting burned. Like I have expressed to many individuals before, a burnt hand or a bullet in the head... which do you think is worse??? Quite simply, I was simply answering someone elses question in regards to holding onto the firearm when it goes off. I have done the same experiments myself.

[bakakata]

If you read carefully, you will realize I was never arguing against it, simply informing as to possible side effects (ones that wont be felt till an hour or two later at soonest, once the adrenaline wears off) and even then, the burns might be so minuet that they go completely unnoticed. Now to take it a step further so you "understand where I stand on the subject" I instruct locking onto the firearm in a similar fashion.

[bakakata]

Burns are the last thing I am worried about, I simply state there might be a possible burning sensation when the gun goes off, this is to PREPARE OTHERS so they DONT GET CAUGHT OFF GUARD and are thus better MENTALLY PREPARRED. Maybe I expressed this clearly enough this time... You need to realise I wasnt arguing against what you were doing/showing/instructing, hopefully this has dawned upon you by now.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 1 Bakakta.. There is nothing wrong with this discussion. Nor did I think you were arguing. Analyzing or explaining every aspect of a defensive response is good. Krav Maga has benefited by real life experience and these types of discussions to modify or improve itself.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2 ...Krav Maga is humble enough to incorporate or modify tactics if they are simple and natural from other systems along with what we develop. I didn't see your responses as offensive. I appreciate your participation and thought process. My students will tell you I want them always thinking and questioning what we do. That is how we get better.

[bakakata]

Thats good, many instructors and students out there never desire nor feel the need to seek improvement upon current methods.

[chieffc]

What continuously surprises me is the lack of muzzle awareness when peeling the weapon and striking with it. The muzzle repeatedly crosses the body in this disarm demo and can discharge on impact or from clumsy handling. The muzzle should never cross the defender's body after the deflection has started. Safe handling always....

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 1..Sorry Chief,what surprises me is that it is very clear the barrel (muzzle) never crosses the body during this disarm. Plus if you listen again I specifically say to redirect the weapon away from the those the gun is pointed at and to turn the gun down and out as the disarm is made.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2..Once the weapon is out of the attacker's hand and because the slide or cylinder is grabbed, the gun does not magically discharge. Especially if it has discharged during the initial redirect, the casing cannot be expelled or the cylinder will not rotate thus prohibiting another bullet to chamber. I do agree with your point and stress this always in all of our gun defenses. Good try though.

[chieffc]

The peel is clean..it's after the weapon is taken and the Bad Guy is struck with the butt end of the weapon that an accidental discharge could occur. This of course depends on the type of weapon...but that requires an evaluation of the type and condition beyond the scope of most. Especially when the weapon is at the back or side of the head...

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Notice the strike made here is a hook punch type of strike. SLow it down or stop it and you will see the weapon is never pointed on me. This is a conscious strike of choice. The other manner of striking with the gun is striking in a manner and angle of the barrel front directly into the attacker. Tough to describe. By the way, we NEVER hold the barrel and strike like a hammer with the butt for the reason you point out. Thanks for your participation.

[chieffc]

Not meant to nit pick...It's just that in analyzing many disarm systems I see that principle violated over and over again. It is critically important for all instructors to closely look at the hidden dangers in tactics and modify or correct them if they violate certain safety parameters. No system is perfect and above scrutiny when lives depend on what we teach.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Agreed. Line of fire is an extremely important element we deal with for obvious reasons. Truth is most systems have minimal or complex weapon defenses that are silly. In fairness, these systems were not designed for modern day application.

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Part 2,,In my classes we also train the "What ifs". If something goes wrong (you slip or the attacker somehow grabs you immediately, etc.), so you need to respond and make an effective defense with our principles and concepts. Line of fire being one of them. We challenge ourselves and create scenarios all the time.

It is an important point you bring to the table Chief. Use this space to plug your system of training.

[chieffc]

Thanks Frontline,

I appreciate your comments and your offer. We all have the same goal...just different ways of getting there at times...Safe journeys to you and your kin...

[bakakata]

A side note, a number of military preferred (US or not) and even non-military personnel prefer the more precision autos (less gas/noise leakage) due to a tighter slide/frame/levers/ejection port (muzzle and muzzle ports are where heat/gas should be escaping from) This is valuable when wet-work is one of the expected functions of the said weapon (noise-reduced/silenced weapons are and can be of immense value in certain situations, requires use of silencer though).

[bakakata]

Overall, the lower gas leakage can reduce the chances of moderate burns... just not everyone out there uses such fine tuned guns to commit crimes :) I presume for your testing though that you used a common auto. Different ammo will burn at different rates, and gas leakage/heat will be affected by the burning rate of the powder and the amount of powder in a given cartridge.

[bakakata]

A .22 will give off very little heat in comparison to a .40 and a 9mm will burn different than a .45 This again though is affected by the ammunition manufacture. Another factor is the resistance of the projector down the barrel creating a forced feedback into the firearm itself... it truly is fun watching the extreme conditions when guns blowup from exceeding the pressure limit of the weapon :)

[FrontlineKravMaga]

Hello EGarrett01, Yes. The advantage you have is surprise. The moment to redirect the weapon to a safer position is immediately upon contact. Even against a strong grip this forceful move will make the redirect. With all of our gun defenses a direct and quick move to the weapon control without telegraphing will enable you to redirect the line of fire before the mechanism can fire or the attacker can react. Thank you for your response.