Victorian on Rings - Stanford Gymnastics' Peter Derman

[kloaneKantn]

i love how in the us they shout during each routine ^^ where i come from the atmosphere is more serious..

[schwarzfalk]

these folks are genetic freaks. not human

MYTH: people think that workout can make you gain that kinda strength

FACT: that's utter BS. for most people, training is almost useless. increases strength a bit but that's it

strength is about GENETICS. exercice has only minimal influence

[SaneStrength]

@schwarzfalk ridiculous... this guy is maybe training for 15 years 5 times a week to achieve this... youre telling he is just lucky with his genetics?

[schwarzfalk]

@SaneStrength I knew a guy who could bench like over 200kg or something & even do one-arm pull-ups (many years workout) - and even he couldn't do all these gymnast moves like iron cross & victorian & what not. how do u explain that??

[subatomicparticlephy]

@schwarzfalk quite easy actually if you don't work at them you definetely won't be able to do them, and judging by how much he weighed if that's what he could bench then it would by mechanically impossible.

[soulofone]

@schwarzfalk because you can't just try them and all the sudden do them you have to practice fore years to perfect them. Sure you might be able to do a one arm push up or pull up, but that does not mean your joints can handle the stress of a planche or iron cross.

[subatomicparticlephy]

@schwarzfalk and I don't know what to tell you, seems like you have a problem gaining strength. Work harder and more importantly work smarter.

[schwarzfalk]

@subatomicparticlephy what you mean "work smarter"? I work regularly, like take pull ups now I do wide-grip pullups (they say it's the best...but it's also way harder), I been trying for months now & still cant pull all the way up. ONE day I DID pull all the way up (once) BUT next day I couldn't, wich means strength got worse... see? it's gotta be genetic

I can get fat easy, but muscle's something else

thank god there's always anabolics for those who ain't got the super-genes, gonna try these

[anhisking]

@schwarzfalk u clearly have not done any research, i dont know who told you wide grip pullups are the best but you have been fooled, just because its harder doesnt mean its better. And theres a difference between absolute strength and relative strength so how much u can bench has very little do with it.

[schwarzfalk]

@anhisking alrite so why are wide-grip pullups (a lot) harder???

[GymchampZW]

@schwarzfalk They are bad for your shoulders too if you aren't flexible. Only certain people who do them, because they can cause damage.

[anhisking]

@schwarzfalk its harder because the hand positioning creates leverage in which forces the body to recruit more lats and less middle back and biceps. Again not necessarily better. If you're really interested and want to know more, go to uni and study exercise physiology.

[Sinjid142]

@schwarzfalk if u actually believe that i find it pretty sad.

[schwarzfalk]

@Sinjid142 oh?

well I did soe searchin: Mesomorph, Endomorph (me) and Ectomorph. look it up

basically, mesomorph are the genetically superior folks (*******s)

the rest of us have little to gain from workouts (especially the ectomorphs, they're even worse off)

but at least science can help us a bit (steroids, tho I'm looking for safe ones atm)

it's plane SCIENCE. look it up yourself if u don't believe it

the guy in this vid is obviously a mesomorph else he woudn't be able to do this

[Sinjid142]

@schwarzfalk are u saying that he hasn't worked to achieve his current level? because he has worked very hard i can tell you! i do indeed consider u as "inferior folks" if u stick to steroids and use lame exusements as "genetics" for people who have worked hard. look up any pro athlete to find out that they trained hard - u shud try that urself.

[schwarzfalk]

@Sinjid142 nonono u dont get it, I waz sayin his hard work got results BECAUSE hes a mesomorph (good genetics)

did u at least look up that word?

if he didn't have the genetics, then his hard word would've been waste of time

ectomorphs & endomorphs can work as hard as they want but they never gonna be able to do this kinda stuff

so basicly:

people with good genes => workout => get stronger

people with normal genes => workout => no effect (so they might as well NOT workout)

[schwarzfalk]

@Sinjid142 oh and heres proof: ME

I been trying wide-grip pullups for MONTHS now & I still cant pull all the way up. THEREFOR workout is useless cuz I ain't got the genes

now *maybe* my workout would work if I got some "xtra help" if u see what i mean

Problem is I'm kinda concerned about the side effects of them anabolics, so I'm looking for safe ones...)

[Sinjid142]

@schwarzfalk k gl man

[dnj86]

@schwarzfalk

I agree that doing pullups, despite the effort, can lead to stagnation for a long time. People are at an advantage for weighing lighter, not about being a mesomorph. Losing as much weight as you can without compromising your strength is key to this type of stuff. When things stagnate, I would can the pull ups and try something else like front and back levers, starting from a tuck - good for a 6 - 8 weeks, then go back to pull ups.

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk I will not deny that genetics play a huge part in performance, but to say that working out is useless if you don't have the genes could not be more wrong. If you are at a plateau for wide grip pullups, change up your workout (do different exercises, add weight, superset, compound set, etc). EVERYONE benefits greatly from exercise. Genetics really only play a major role at the professional level. I'll give an example

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk I have long arms and legs, but a short torso. This gives me a huge advantage for deadlifting, but a major disadvantage for squatting and benching. I can still get my bench and my squat to over 400lbs if I train for it, but there's no way in hell I'll be able to break a squat or bench record with my body type. That doesn't mean I don't benefit from squatting or bench pressing. Also, there's no such thing as safe anabolics. Here's a quote by mark Rippetoe:

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk "There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a fucking Pussy. I have no time or patience for fucking Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this.". and here's another: "Milk is quite literally better than steroids for a novice lifter to grow on, and no supplement produces the same effect."

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 hey learn to read I said im gonan take this stuff PLUS do me workouts cuz the workouts ALONE aint working...so instead of blabbering how about some fuckin USEFUL advice, like HOW can I get results from workouts WITHOUT them steroids?

oh yeah and since you missed that part, I said teh workouts AINT GIVING NO RESULTS - HOW d'you explain that huh? HOW?

PS. teh only reason workout work for YOU is cause you got the genes maybe. thats it. u dont need much work

but I aint lucky like you

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 I mean wtf I been trying wide grip pullups daily for months now (that is, months, not days not weeks but months, as in theres 12 months a year, you know, MONTHS like, 30 days a month)

and I STILL cant pull all teh way up HOW do u explain that?

if it aint genes then what is it? supernatural? a magic curse?

[schwarzfalk]

btw even two o your friends here said same thing: they said theres only 10 people or so in the world who can do a victorian. so u see, this means its genetics. the guy in that vid is a obvously a mesomorph

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 btw I already drink 1 cup o milk a day but I gonna try boosting daily milk dose...how about half gallon a day, u think thats enough?

also, skim or whole milk? wich is better?

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk Also, make sure you are eating a lot of carbs and protein (carbs give you energy, protein lets you build muscle) and make sure your protein has essential amino acids. It's not my genes that let me get stronger, it's that I eat a lot, and proper training. My genes only allow me to have an edge on certain exercises and actually prevent me from looking huge. My arms are pathetic, but I can curl 50s. You also don't need to dedicate a full day for arms.

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 btw same thing with PUSH-UPS but this time I try em narrow-grip

same thing, been trying for months but I can never do more then 10 at a time...see, how d'you explain THAT? if it aint genes, like u say, then what is it? supernatural?

I dunno if even half gallon o milk a day gonna be enugh...and if that dont work then anabolics r the only option

(btw must anabolics be taken before or after workout?)

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk if strength is your goal, 1 gallon of whole milk every day. It's a lot, but it's got everything you need for strength gains. Instead of doing pullups every day, only work your back twice a week with 2-3 days in between. If you work the same muscles every day, you aren't giving them a chance to repair, and are actually tearing down your muscles even more, causing LOSS of strength. See: Overtraining. As far as pullups, don't start with wide grip. Start with lat pulldowns, then

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 1 GALLON? man I better make it organic milk then, wut with all them chemicals they give the cows...yikes

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk the thing to remember though, is that squats and deadlifts are high risk - high reward exercises. If you do them with proper form, they will benefit you like no other exercise can.....BUT, if you do them with poor form, you can literally cripple yourself. Messing up your knees and/or especially your low back is NOT something you wanna do, so you need to make sure you're doing it right. you can youtube Rippetoe for how to do them right.

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk work your way to chin ups, then med grip pullups, then wide grip pull ups. But don't just do pullups on back days, also incorporate 1 arm rows, seated rows, dumbbell pullovers, barbell rows, and especially, deadlifts. If you want to get strong, improve your deadlift and squat Period No excuses. You NEED squats and deadlifts to get strong. Here's a sample workout pattern: Monday: Chest and back. Tues: Legs. Wed: Cardio. Thurs: Chest and back. Fri: Legs. Sat: Core traaining. Sun: rest

[schwarzfalk]

@JasonRyu1 k thx

but uh...deadlift & squats, whats the diffrence in muscles worked? can 1 replace the other?

[JasonRyu1]

@schwarzfalk 1 gallon is Mark Rippetoe's personal recommendation. I don't drink anywhere near that amount. And no, you can't substitute squats for deadlifts or vice versa. Both work your entire lower half, with different emphasis on certain muscles, but the real kicker is: Deadlifts work the most muscles of any other exercise, and thus, produces the most testosterone and growth hormone. Squats place the greatest load on the body, enhancing bone density and nervous system stress (which is good)

[byakuyakuchiki7]

that is INSANE

i can't even begin to comprehend the level of strength required to do ANY of these, let alone all of them together on the same routine

[honkeytot]

I can't stand how they all cheer every god damn second. STFU.

[byakuyakuchiki7]

@honkeytot uhmm if i saw that in person i wouldn't stop cheering for days

[ulilcracker]

pffff I can do that in my sleep. That is...I can do it in my dreams :-)

[LaPerssonandro]

@ulilcracker That's nothing man, when I get bored of exercising, I fly off somewhere else.

Pity I can't do any of this stuff when I'm awake...

Beast strength.

[halcom23]

a victorian....A VICTORIAN.....only a few people on EARTH can do this move, YOU SIRR...........R BOSS!

[davidwoo9194]

i love how everything he does, move after move, is slow. Obviously making it ten times harder than what it really should be. HE'S GOT MY RESPECT!

[flipkid2006]

2 Things:

1) So he does a victorian, then bounces to a maltese, then to a cross, then back roll to a 2nd cross. That is just godly strength!

2) Pause at 0:33, his arms are massive!

[fraka899]

this is very hard to do, but this is not even near to a inverted maltese or victorian... he has a pretty big angle... no need to lose strenght on this, when you cant do it right

[Alemaxus]

that last yeah sounded like lil jon´s YEAYHA!!

[360isbest1]

Amazing.

[p00ner2010]

It's funny 'cause they're all like 4 feet tall.

[pcte81]

@p00ner2010 i bet they could all kick the shit outa you

[halcom23]

@p00ner2010 yet they could kill u with there fucking eyelashes u prick if i saw u do 1 of those moves i would shut up but since i know that yur just some fatass on the computer trollin i dont hav to worry.....

[JustElijah]

This is sick, but I've seen cleaner ones. Props to him though, I can just about tuck front lever lol

[comfibold]

Inspirational!

[kungfuyogi7]

How long does it usually take a person to accomplish this?

[typhoon535]

@kungfuyogi7

Most never get to a victorian level of strength.

[stfuBUDDY]

The secret to do this is buld upper body strenght, have small gentials and chicken legs.

[breezebro]

@stfuBUDDY I've got 2 of the 3.

[baronking25]

you have to be incredibly strong to be able to do that.. im in good shape and workout alot and i would probably break my arm if i tried to do that..

[Thehamez]

I saw one guy do it during the olympics in 2008 perfectly horizontal. Never seen it replicated.

[kratoslevit]

do rings gymnasts like this guy use free weights as well?

[ShaolinIronLeg]

@kratoslevit

Usually no.

[hidemysocks]

@kratoslevit they probably do but i would say just doing a ton of ring sequences (strength sequences) could get you in that shape.

[yuritim]

@kratoslevit No, they're born with the right muscle development intact. Purely genetic, not related to any training.

[alacranmontoya]

@kratoslevit sometimes, however it will be like 95% bodyweight exercises the ones that make possible this kind of moves, cause bodyweights focus on loads of muscles working together in balance

[enjoikr3w22]

my gymnastics coach can do a victorian

[yuritim]

@enjoikr3w22 My grandfather could do an Elizabethan.

[ahmednabil]

@enjoikr3w22

really , i like straight arms and straight body ? you realise that this guy doesnt do a good victorian ? , its the hardest move to ever been done , the hardest move that is yet to be done is the inverted planche its like the victorian except you rais your body higher than arms.

[backyardgardengnomes]

dude its definantly not 4 i know people personely who can do it

[yuritim]

@backyardgardengnomes but you can't spell

[backyardgardengnomes]

@yuritim who gives a crap nice comeback dippy

[lawler123]

only 4 people in the world can do this skill, and only one can do a front up rise to victorian also called a rodriguez

[gedatzeni]

Who are the four? I know of this guy, danny rodrigues and ali al asi...

[srgymnast1]

and nick stango from illinois. he graduated

[mailmepizza]

What part of this is the victorian? I've searched online and can't figure out what it is. Thanks.

[SeijiiNakamaru]

Like at :08

[mailmepizza]

ah ok so like the opposite of a maltese thanks dude

[Sameronei]

inversed maltese

[jasonduder]

@ 0:07

[MiSHeQ]

outstanding, great stregth

[wazzy198]

Yes son. These words are homophones. See, you don't want to ever make a mistake with homophones, like using the word 'your' instead of 'you're,' because then you just look like stupid, uneducated piece of shit.

[Rasvatri]

Jacksoness is just a boy or girl or something between that, that thinks hes great, i thinks is better to all ignore him because he loves it when you react,

so please please ignore him,

[scollinsryan]

i bet its the best in the US

[danny156wc]

Gymnasts are strong, flexible, agile, fast, and coordinated altogether. It is one of the most challenging sports in the Olympic Games. Jacksoness, you sound like you are full of hype and ignorance. You don't know a thing about true sport. The Victorian element, I think, is the utmost difficult element on rings. Anyone who executes it perfectly scores very high on the rings. I have great respect for gymnasts.

[G33314Lucas]

lets see his strength on rings,or lack of it.

[G33314Lucas]

hey were's peter derman from?

[G33314Lucas]

i think your trying to ruin this video,so hopefuly the owner will disable comments,igmo

[G33314Lucas]

you try hard to be an idiot,you shouldnt spend some much time talking and not walking,you need get out more

[G33314Lucas]

go find another place to post your garbage pose

[G33314Lucas]

you know gymnast arent gay so thats not gonna happen

you'd try

[G33314Lucas]

the things people say behind there computer screens

[YMf27]

dam good

[G33314Lucas]

jealousy,hard to get over

[dd8yf]

Already have. And I'm happily married.

Troll.

[dd8yf]

If you can do it, post a video. Otherwise, your words mean nothing.

[Rasvatri]

Victorian is something 10people on earth can do so shut up

[pivotpro7873]

more like 1 or 2

[Rasvatri]

A lot of good gymnasts can preform it but just don't do it in competition because its to a skill that is to hard to preform clean in a comp

[rogertags]

@Rasvatri

My coach (Foerch) was the guy who actually invented this move. As a sophomore in high school, i had the honor of spotting him on it day to day. circa 1993. haha

[Rasvatri]

@rogertags Victorian or rolling in to victorian like this?

[rogertags]

@Rasvatri from support.... He was like a front-lever machine as I remember. :)

[gymmonkey22]

shut the fuck up u little prick u could never fuckin do that u fat ass bitch

[maroth86]

hahaha......right

[professorgentzel]

Victorian to front-lever-bounce (Pineda) to Maltese...sickest combo I've ever seen

[gjforreal]

Actually a front lever pull to Maltese is a Bhavsar.

[electriczero22]

that double lay was good

[smittan15]

danny rodriques is the only person to my knowlege that has naild the victorian.

[ZzPlaya4life12zZ]

i know bro props on the victorian but u gotta work on getting it straighter

[buckeyegymnast]

the victorian wasn't that good. looked more like a high front lever

[furbieguru]

this reminds me of how hard rings realy arelater on... going into vl 7s gonna be tuff :(

[tortoseman]

He is the best person on rings Ive ever seen

[pfbrewers]

u need to watch Kevin Tan Then

[TheJet89]

than you have to watch Yuri van Gelder, Jordan Yovtchev, Danny Rodriguez and Chen Yibing.

[Captaindust15]

Working iron crosses before puberty ends up in messed up elbows in lots of cases.

[tonyhawkwiz]

not really... I started working them 13yrs old

[ufukdupitlol]

before puberty

[musculus123]

Wrong!!!!

I've holded mine at 12!! And no sign of problemes since then.

[scollinsryan]

i started working them really early and my elbow is fucked

[G33314Lucas]

tricep training may help

[maxx118]

peter that was so cool that is one of the hardest skils on rings. You are so strong and i can not what to see you again.

[shain78]

danny rodriguez is the best !

[soonergymnast1967]

Good effort, that skill is sooo hard... Yet is a swinging element not required as in, yamawaki or guczoghy, in college gymnastics because it is for us, or does the back uprise hand counts as a swing element

[smittan15]

can someone tell me if aonyone ever have done a correct victorian?

[soonergymnast1967]

yeah the best I have ever seen is "Danny Rodriguez"

[maxx118]

yes the person that made it up and the people that do it in meats

[ApolytonGP]

Look up :inverted cross gymnastics: on you tube. None of those crosses have horizontal arms. Look at Nazi from 1938. His strength is incredible, but his inv cross is NOT horizontal. Look at the angle. Look at the code of points. Look at his regular cross which IS horizontal. Look at the other big names. They are all NOT horizontal. And some don't hold for a full 2 second count either (from stop of movement, measured with a sweep second hand). But don't get me started on that either.

[soonergymnast1967]

type in Yang Wei rings 2006 Worlds EF thats the best one i could find

[ApolytonGP]

I think that people are so used to inverted crosses having some angle to them, that when there is small angle, they think of it as an accomplishment (it is) and consider it perfect. But that guy did not have horizontal arms (second more off than first). And his malteses were planchey also.

[soonergymnast1967]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing on the planches. Yet it's so hard to have horizontal lines on a inverted cross just because so many muscles are used and it's so hard to build those muscles to work as a packed in certain places and then individual in other places. Yet I can see where you are coming from, so yeah no disrespect. Peace

[phishfearme2]

no victorian in this set!

[Geobon]

First hold

[phishfearme2]

not in the yang wei youube ref given by soonergymnast - although he coulda been referring to an inverted cross

[metalblade1]

yes are u stupid or do u just not know what a victorian looks like?

[maroth86]

uh, yeah there is....

[BROCKOLEE]

here are two people who do inverts that are perfect if not they are extremely close. Chen Yibing - 2006 Rings World Champion

Szilvester Csollany - 2000 Olympics

(search for their names on youtube)

[metalblade1]

And Jordan Jotchev has inverts so perfect his head is almost below the rings.

[jparkdzg]

chen yibing's invert is the best i've seen.

[LesYeux8]

I believe Chris Lamorte has the best inverted cross ever I've ever seen.

[metalblade1]

no not as good as jordan jovtchev

[RxTim]

honestly, if u don't say yibing ur wrong. he lines his arms perfectly and doesn't even flinch when he does it. jovtchev WAS good....

[metalblade1]

chill man both great inverts

[metalblade1]

i agree that yibings are the best theres no questoin. but i was sayin that jovchevs are beter than chris lamorte.

[ApolytonGP]

I've just never seen an inverted cross with horizontal arms. Can someone give a video to one?

[kommisar]

I have seen perfect Inverted Crosses. They're getting fairly common with all of today's Rings specialists.

This guy didn't do it perfectly but good for him for being able to do it at all. However, the two other videos in which I saw guys do Victorians, they had their arms bent like how a lot of guys cheat on Pinedas. He might be doing the same. I think the kids who brag about Crosses at 13 here did the same as well.

[LFDYGymnast]

ApolytonGP what are u talking about there are plenty of people that have a perfect or at least as perfect as the eye can see inverted cross.

[nanquan492]

It's nice to see that the team is so supportive, but doesn't all that yelling interfering with his concentration!?

[teecrew]

why would it?

[ApolytonGP]

Now inverted crosses is another story. Every hoser with a wide hand stand gets credit for that. I have never seen an inverted cross that was perfectly horizontal.

[Hooligan8200]

Last time i checked inverted cross was a C and a victorian was an E.

[ApolytonGP]

It's a powerful attempt, but still in the class of a training movement. The guy who gets credit for the Victorian needs to actually do it: 2 seconds, no pike, level with the rings, no false grip.

[sephirothstan]

he doesnt hold it completely long enought but still HOLY SHIT! way longer than i could

[iamyellowj]

The Victorian is what musculus referred to as an "inverted swallow", where swallow is another word for maltese. It is the most difficult strength /position/ in gymnastics and although Peter does not do it perfectly, it is still an incredible display of strength.

[sentinus01]

ok first im gonna agree with tsuk because (cherryhugs) is bullshit....a thirteen year old is not allowed to do iron crosses or anything because it can collapse you sternum if you arent properly developed----but that was a very good routine with support from teammates lol

[teecrew]

i know plenty of 13 year olds with crosses

[Penguin888]

I could do an Iron Cross at 12....not anymore though, I'm out of shape :)

[cherryhugs246]

Its not that hard. i taught myself how to do that when i was 13..

[tsukahara10]

Bullshit! That's all I have to say.

[toyhyena]

Whoa

[Pommelroid]

wow hes strong dang thats a freaking hard skill

[LittleTeaCup]

Very good shit!