Theism, a mind disorder?

[MrAudiovideodisco]

Theism isn't a mental disorder. You seem to have a poor grasp on the subject matter here.

Religion is a delusion by definition, pick up a dictionary and look up the definition of delusion. And if you're feeling imaginative then yes, theism acts very much like a virus does.When you liken your critical mind to your immune system then theism acts exactly like a virus.

[Just8eatit]

A friend once told me"Argue with ignorance and you'll get nowhere. Argue with intelligence and you might actually settle on something." if i were ShwaNerd I wouldn't have even bothered, but learning that he's forced to go to church every sunday, he might need a let out like going on youtube and coming across a bunch of idiotic underdeveloped neanderthals.

[SuperJimijimi]

Canada is an awesome country you uneducated dork. It's loved all over the world not like the cesspool country your from

[Blackmark52]

You start off with a definition of delusion and make a big thing of it as if you scored points. Just how is believing in an imaginary being NOT a false belief? Even if one hides behind the claim that the non-existance of God can't be proven, there are many associated beliefs that are clearly false themselves. To prove the point, I don't even have to give examples. The very reason for the different Abrahamic religions and various sects is that they all accuse each other of false beliefs!!

[RogueIndustrialist]

Let's take a step back and write down what's happening here:

1.) 14 year-old makes a video where he says Christianity is true because of such and such, cannot be argued with and is the one true religeon.

2.) Angry 14 year-old argues that his belief (or lack thereof) is the true religeon, and the original 14 year-old is wrong.

3.) Older YouTuber decides to side with the original 14 year-old and posts a video response in which he attempts to act as a superior person.

YouTube isn't a holy war

[rba718]

Theism being a delusion? Sure why not. A mind disorder though? I think that's a tad extreme if not unfair.

However, you're a bit wrong in treating Atheism (Which you coupled with Naturalism) as a belief system in saying Atheists cling to them unquestioningly. I do realize there are many retarded Atheists out there who fight for Atheism as if it were some grand organization, when honestly, it's not a belief system and there is really nothing to fight for.

[migkillertwo]

"The convo stopped so I left, I don't feel like arguing with a bunch of kids who can't seem to step outside of their own little comfort box anyway. haha, I really feel for you guys"

Engaging with some of the highest secular intellects on youtube (ProfMTH, Tooltime, urbanelf, DasAmericanAtheist, bitbutter, etc.) isn't exactly what I would call staying in one's own "comfort box"

If you think you're so high and mighty, how about a more formal debate with either of us?

[KabaneTheChristian]

Look up the definition of pistis.

[KabaneTheChristian]

And judging from your commentary in the stickam room the other night, you've been preying on Christians who have read nothing. Challenge mig to a video debate and see how well you fare.

[KabaneTheChristian]

I think it's funny that you would accuse mig of being childish for insulting ShwaNerd when if you look at their debate, Shwa was the one who hurled the first insult because the poor boy couldn't handle anything over five minutes.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Get your definitions straight. Mig is not a fundy. He is a Christian. Fundy is a subset of Christians.

And no, if you had done a cursory review of mig's comment, you would note that the vast majority of people here are not blocked. Including you by the way. Still stinging from our stickam discussion where you didn't understand anything anyone said? What about the next day where you embarrassed yourself more by endorsing the pagan parallels thesis?

[alastairguhn]

What is it with all these moronic, religious fundies claiming that atheism is a belief?

Christianity holds no evidence other than a book written by mortal men. At the end of the day, it all comes down to how strongly you want to believe in this bullshit tale.

If a deity created us, it is none that we have ever, or could ever imagine.

[KabaneTheChristian]

What is it with all these moronic, atheistic fundies not getting the definition of fundy straight? Mig isn't a creationist, he isn't even an inerrantist.

[alastairguhn]

You don't have to be a creationist to be a fundamentalist.

What was that about not understanting the definition?

[KabaneTheChristian]

Yes, you do, unless you broadly define fundy.

[alastairguhn]

Dictionary definition of a fundamentalist: strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.

No, you don't.

[KabaneTheChristian]

I noted how you picked out definition two instead of definition one. Why not tell me definition one hm?

[alastairguhn]

Many words have different definitions that apply to different situations. You can't disregard a word because it has an alternate meaning. That's like trying to say something is heavy because the word "Light" also means illumination.

[KabaneTheChristian]

DUH. My point exactly. The first definition is the one about the fundamentalist movement. Now please provide for us definition one. Come on now...

[peroslowned]

an apologetic saying that psychology isn't scientific...right...

[orangenorth]

Oh my, just oh my.

[kff]

'A delusion is a false belief!'

BINGO!

[groundhog0339]

And, in the same way, when there is no explanation, you can't merely say "nature did it" ... unless of course you begin with the assumption that nature is all there is, in which case you are begging the question (assuming what you are trying to prove).

[Krensharpaw]

It's funny to see you use appeal to ridicule, yet you seem to miss that.

Also perhaps you should sit here and look up this because they are doing studies in which it shows that religion does affect parts of the brain. Also, for a example, don't we call ppl who hear vocies crazy? Then why do we not say the same for ppl who claim to hear the voice of god?

If we say everyone who hears vocies are nuts, then they are also. You really need to study more before making a video mig.

[ukchristian28]

As I have already tried to explain my silly little nemesis, these fundie atheist fools like Joebevins1999 and ShwaNerd are talking about theism as a belief in general, not just people who hear voices.

Where did Mig make an appeal to ridicule in this video? He didn't as far as I can see.

[Krensharpaw]

I know uk, as I said before, it was a example. It's clear you don't seem to understand that. Maybe the third time will get though to you.

The beginning.

[migkillertwo]

"Surely not evidence because there is none."

God is a properly basic belief.

also, how do you know that there is no evidence for God? That is quite an extraordinary claim. Perhaps you would care to, I dunno, refute every single argument for God that is in the literature?

[praisetruthplz]

How is believing that a deity don't exist a extraordinary claim? If the other side has no evidence other than personal experience and anecdotes the most rational position is to be sceptic about it until proven otherwise with evidence. This laughable statement at the end sounds like a Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron arguement where they said a atheist has to know everything in the universe to diprove god. Also I bet your "proof" are nothing but assertions.

[Hez0]

I'm guessing you've already forgotten that video that Veritas made.

=P

[kff]

Attacking a 'cleverly designed ad hominem attack'

with a crap one. Murr.

[TheObnubilators]

unquestionatingly

[coladict]

"A delusion is a false belief"

Like a magic man who creates extremely complex things out of nothing?

The only part of this video that has merit is that it really IS an ad hominem attack. that gets you a second star.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Weird Al is for all ages my friend.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

Surprisingly weak video of yours MK2. No need to turn it on Shawnerd. Just admit that it doesn't apply to you because you think you have good evidence for your claim. If you aren't delusional (and I actually don't think you are) you would readily admit that if this evidence was falsified you would end up in the default position (agnostic atheism).

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

(continued)

I think you both went out of scope with the whole argument. Shawnerd misapplied it, and you misinterpreted the intentions of the argument.

[jay666KJ]

A virus infects people. Your religion infects people, and its within the brain of a believer....nothing inaccurate. You just find it offensive. "a delusion is a false belief" EXACTLY, and those who believe in leprechauns would say the SAME EXACT THING, why because "leprechauns are not a false belief" Special pleading Migtard.

[jay666KJ]

It is soooooooo incredibly easy to discredit you.

I don't have to do any research for anything. All I have to do is use LOGIC, and common sense. Shwanerd gives emotional responses? BULLSHIT AND HE HAS HIS VIDEOS TO PROVE IT! Everyone check out shwanerd's channel. Type it into the search plz. Crazy behavors????? HOW? What crazy behavor??? Got a SHRED of evidence for this? Your just making up shit. Atheism is not "beliefs" its a DISBELIEF. Strawman. Unquestioning? No. Not what so ever.

[jay666KJ]

How is Shwanerd unquestioning? Your just ASSERTING that as fucking true. Assertions arent evidence. What Shwanerd goes is he uses the best of our ability to determine what is true and what is fantasy. He is open to the possiblities like I am. I don't believe in absolutes, unless it's logic. So.....how am I or Shwanerd unquestioning?????? We say, this is the best way to determine truth. THATS WHAT WE SAY. FUCKING OWNED!

[jay666KJ]

Your only response is to say that you disagree that science, and logic are the only way to determine truth [not absolute truth] from fantasy. That's all you can say, and have said. We on the other hand, say science and logic are reliable, and it's logical to believe in things when we can prove them in a reliable way. See how it connects? "emotionally invested" In some way, such as your delusions effects OUR LIVES! Such as Shawnerd's family life.

[jay666KJ]

You just ASSERT, with no evidence what so ever, that atheist, or just Shwanerd fit all these traits. This is called projecting. As for Veritas, what you and him completely forget is that your evidence is absurd, and isnt evidence. It's all preaching to the quire, which YOU and KABANE LOVE to do. You act as though preaching to the quire is fucking air.. You make logical fallacies -continue

[jay666KJ]

You make preaching to the quire arguments, the bible this, the gospels this, apologist this, bible scholars this, nothing but preaching to the quire. Logical fallacies such as strawman argument, youv made SEVERAL strawman arguments. You use appeal to ignorance, "god did it" "how did the universe get here?" appeal to consequence, your little Hitler, Stalin bullshit. Special pleading, personal experience, "god didnt need a creator, but everything had to" etc. We expose this.

[jay666KJ]

We expose these arguments are being logically flawed, including the whole design, and cosmological arguments, and "fine tuning" arguments, we expose ALL these, and yet you still DENY. That's delusion. You deny history, and yet you believe that because your bible say it happened, it did in fact happen, and you use historians who didnt even live during the time period. That's delusional, and it's obvious you don't question, in fact thats a fucking RULE of Christianity. SO your not a christian now?

[migkillertwo]

hmm. Block jay666, dont block, block dont block, block.

You know what, You're a fucking retard. I'll block you.

[NotWhollySane]

To suppress free speech is a double wrong. It violates the rights of the hearer as well as those of the speaker.

Fredrick Douglas Adams.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Mig is under no obligation to give morons the freedom to clutter his channel. It's within his right to block jay666k. If you had someone commenting on your channel every day saying that the magnetic field proves the youth of the earth, wouldn't you block them?

[NotWhollySane]

And yet he complained when Ontologistics blocked him for being a retard? How *very* christian of him. I seem to recall a certian dude from 2000 years ago saying that you should treat people the way that you'd like to be treated. And no I would not block them. I'm pretty hardcore when it comes to free speech.

[NotWhollySane]

"you believe that because your bible say it happened, it did in fact happen"

That's ressurrection apologetics in a nutshell. It doesn't even occur to them that if the only ones saying that Jesus came back to life are his cult members then it's clearly BS. What if a bunch of UFO nuts were the only ones saying that a space ship landed in a corn field? Nobody would believe those modern day claims but we are expected to believe the 2,000 year old claims about Jebus?

[ukchristian28]

It would rather depend on the quality of the evidence they present for UFOs landing in a corn field. If they can show sufficent evidence that UFOs landed in a corn field then we would believe that UFOs landed in a corn field.

Your point about only the "cult members"believing is absurd. Of course only Christians believe that, because once a new person is convinced they before part of that group. That's like saying "isn't it funny that no theists say there is no God, only atheists".

[NotWhollySane]

Would you believe that a UFO landed in a corn field based on nothing but eyewitness testamony?

Ok I just wanted you to know that I don't think the gospels are actual accounts of anything. This is all just hypothetical. Anyway.

Cult members as in the people who were already pretty invested in Jesus being the messiah. As in his close friends and family. Imagine if the only people that saw the UFO were the people that obsessed about UFOs for the last three years.

[HerrSchnabeltier]

-facepalm- If you are going to compare the gospels to UFO eyewitness accounts than you really need to study more about it.

Anyways saying that theism is a mind disorder has equal intellegence and are as the bigoted statement 'all dem gays are going to hell'.

[NotWhollySane]

Would you like to make an argument on how they differ? And no, I'm not comparing real life UFO accounts to the Gospels. I'm comparing my hypothetical UFO accounts to the Gospels. If four or so people claimed that a UFO landed nobody would believe them until they brought forth proof. Yet we are supposed to believe the Gospels based on nothing but eyewitnesses?

Thanks for admitting that christians are bigots. And I've already delt with your strawman crybaby stuff already.

[ukchristian28]

Jay666KJ,

ShwaNerd's video is nothing but one big assertion. He makes no attempt to explain why he thinks the criteria fit theism, he just reads the criteria and says things like "hmmm, that sounds familiar doesn't it". Rubbish!

[migkillertwo]

"Your religion infects people, and its within the brain of a believer....nothing inaccurate."

this is nothing more than poisoning the well by saying that religion "infects" people.

[NotWhollySane]

Sorry but theism is a virus of the mind. Fear of death, threats of hell, and promises of heaven all help it to propagate. It shares multiple traits with other things that are BS such as Karate. Both have split factions, both have idolized leaders, both makes excuses instead of providing real evidence. And it's not an insult. It's simply the truth. It's not an argument agianst theism as much as it is commentary.

[NotWhollySane]

Well never mind. I just saw Shwanerd's video, and now I must say it does make a good argument against religion. Heck I was actually impressed by his video. And yours didn't really address much of it except to say that atheism is a delusional belief. But how the hell can atheism be a belief? A belief in a negative makes no sense.

[HerrSchnabeltier]

First off NotWhollySane, atheism makes a claim to truth, and unproven claim to truth, so it is a belief that there is not God, unless you don't make a claim to truth and say you don't know if there is a God or not, but that would make you an agnostic. Also not all religious people fear death, threaten people with hell, or bribe people with heaven, and even though some people do use those things to propagate it, how does that make it a virus of the mind? (cont)

[NotWhollySane]

1. Atheism doesn't need to prove anything because you can't prove a negative.

2, Agnosticism is not a middle ground between Atheism and Theism. Look it up.

3. Yes and not all bombs will kill you. Some merely mangle you for life. Therefore we should just disregard the idea of bombs being dangerous because I was able to point to the minority of all bombs.

[HerrSchnabeltier]

(continued) Atheism preaches that there is no God. It promises people that everything, all there pain, and suffering of this world will end when they die. It tells people that becoming an atheist will give you superior intellect and it will make you rational, you will be a free thinker. Atheism is a virus of the mind, making people believe there is no purpose to life and that they can do anything.

See, arguing that would just make me a bigot, but you can argue with that reasoning against theism?

[NotWhollySane]

Orly? I didn't know there was an atheist version of the N. Creed. Atheism won't make you any of those things. Having those qualities does help you along the road to atheism though. And finally ever heard of playing the victim or strawman fallacy? Look them up.

[HerrSchnabeltier]

I never tried to disprove the atheistic position with my comments so it was no fallacy. I was saying that saying that theism is a mind disorder is ridiculous bigotry. You give qualities to a theists that not all have, and then also make the jump that they have a mind disorder. It is just bigotry, oh but it is alright for you to be a bigot isn't it? Because you are right aren't you? Just review your own mentality and compare it with other types of bigots.

[NotWhollySane]

No. It is a combo of strawman fallacy as well as playing the victim. We are telling you that you have a problem in the same way that alcoholics have a problem. Then you cry bigot, and pretend that we are simply insulting you. Like I said strawman and playing the victim.

[KabaneTheChristian]

"Heck I was actually impressed by his video."

Now discarding any respect I had left for you.

[NotWhollySane]

It's ok. I discarded any respect I had left for you when you supported the ticket with fundie fucktard Sarah Palin.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Cool! I hope you enjoy your new value-added tax!

[KabaneTheChristian]

Sorry but atheism is a virus of the mind. Fear of being intellectually isolated, threats of being called delusional, and promises of intellectual fulfillment help it to propagate. It shares multiple traits with other things that are BS such as Karate. Both have split factions (Ruse vs. Dawkins) both have idolized leaders (the four horsemen), both makes excuses instead of providing real evidence (lack of belief). It's not an insult. It's simply the truth.

[NotWhollySane]

In order to have split factions like Karate you have to have a building where you go and operate. And then some dude has to split from that building and start another Karate studio. Atheists don't get together three times a week like christians and karate guys. We don't have idolized leaders. No atheist has his own TV show every sunday morning. We have no atheist pope that athiest cardinals vote into office. Providing evidence for a negative? Mkay. Makes sense.

[KabaneTheChristian]

The TV show thing made me laugh. Right, it's not Sunday morning. It's Sunday evening. The Atheist Experience, hello?

[NotWhollySane]

Touché! Curse you atheist experience! CURSE YOU!! But yeah, that's one cable access show VS how many televangelists? Also I don't think the idea of being intellectually superior holds a candle to "you will live forever in paradise if you believe", and "you will spend forever in hell if you don't believe".

[KabaneTheChristian]

I can't stand the televangelists, I think they are losers.

I view hell and heaven as states rather than places. EVERYONE rises from the dead at the end of time. And we all are in the presence of God. But unbelievers will hate that presence, because they are shamed in the presence of a Holy God.

[NotWhollySane]

I used to view heaven and hell in a similar way. Unfortunatly christians like that are the extreme minority. Why would I hate the presence of a God? If it was truly a good God, that didn't do any of the OT stuff then I'd be perfectly fine with it all. And what would be so shameful about not believing when that God pretended to not exist? A deist or psuedo Christian God I could handle. OT God on the other hand... Bleh!

[KabaneTheChristian]

The thing is that you will be shamed before a righteous God as your sin will not be atoned for. You will hate that shame that you have to live with eternally because of God's presence and hate God himself. Always running, but never being able to escape.

[NotWhollySane]

What sin? You mean the sin I was "created" with? The original sin which supposedly takes place in a metaphorical story, but somehow has an effect on the real world? An all powerful God could just undo that stuff with a snap of his fingers. Your God doesn't which means he is either evil, not all powerfull, or doesn't exist. I choose the last option.

[nailo1]

1 i agree with you more or less

1a theism is not, the level of commitment can lead to EX yokeup

2 i wonder why you said that about psychology when philosophy is extremely subjective EX creationism often uses philosophy

[cherbine888]

I'm not saying that it is a mind disorder, but there are obviously ppl with mind disorders that believe.

But you went to far by saying Psychology is not a Science.

[embracethemetal]

I would strongly object to the whole "psychology is not scientific" thing! Other than that, good video

[gusb232]

You dont think Psychology is a science yet it makes claim about the world.

Huh.

Yes you and Tom Cruz

There are plenty of Christians that are Psychologist.

Actually My sister has a BA in Psychology and she is a Christian.

Not all religious belief is considered a disorder, But If it negatively effecting you or those close to you, then this is a good indicator that you are abnormally religious.

[migkillertwo]

"You dont think Psychology is a science yet it makes claim about the world."

yes, it makes claims about the external world, but doesn't really give empirical evidence. I can't even begin to imagine how the criteria he gave for "mind disorder" would be formulated in any way except through pure conjecture.

[ukchristian28]

My own reading makes me doubt that Karl Jaspers would apply it to theism. Although he didn't hold to a belief in a personal God, he did not hold to the strict naturalism that ShwaNerd and others hold to. I am going to talk about that in an upcoming video.

[gusb232]

Psychology does have empirical evidence.

There no need for you to attack the it as non-science.

All you have to show is that Psychogists dont classify religion as a disorder and why.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

Neuroscience is fundamentally based upon the mechanics of the brain.

Now if you're referring to the other branches of Psychology like Social Psychology then of course your aren't going to find definitive evidence. It is a soft science that is forced to back up its studies with correlations. For instance we haven't yet linked up smoking with cancer, but we have an extremely strong correlation as evidence. Social Psych. is limited by Neuroscience's nativity.

[migkillertwo]

"Neuroscience is fundamentally based upon the mechanics of the brain."

not psychology.

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

"Experimental psychology on both human subjects and animals is an essential part of the enterprise, for the obvious reason that accurate characterizations of psychological phenomena are necessary to guide the search for explanations and mechanisms. Trying to find a mechanism when the phenomenon is misdescribed or underdescribed is likely to be quixotic."

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

"Neurology is an essential part of the enterprise because it provides both important behavioral data on human subjects and hypothesizes connections between specific brain structures and behavior. Neuroscience is essential both to discover the functional capacities of neural components and because reverse engineering is an important strategy for figuring out how a novel device works."

[withoutleaders]

lol nice, that little zealot is just a n00b tho. if hes still like this in 6 months or so we can demote him to tard. not that im a theist (or atheist) but this kind of neo-atheism is pretty sickening

[tehknologik]

A delusion is not just a false belief. It's a belief that's persistently held, despite being presented with evidence to the contrary. I think you and I would both agree that VenomFangX has many delusions, as opposed to a scientist who may hold to a false idea, but is eager to throw it out should reality ever contradict it.

[migkillertwo]

"It's a belief that's persistently held, despite being presented with evidence to the contrary."

that would be mind disorder

[tehknologik]

No, that's a delusion.

[tehknologik]

Well I guess, in a way.

[migkillertwo]

eh, forget the nitpicking.

then again, we should try not to get stuck in language games.

[tehknologik]

And while I think religious beliefs are in fact virulent, I think that only solves part of the puzzle of a religious mind. I agree that it's an unfruitful mode to engage in.

[StutteringDave]

I disagree with your claim that theism is a mind disorder is a "cleverly" designed ad hominem attack ;)

[ukchristian28]

Why?

[StutteringDave]

Because it certainly isn't a clever argument to make.

[ukchristian28]

Oh right yes, sorry Dave:). You agree with it appart from the "cleverly" bit:)

[Knowntje]

both atheism and theism can be considered "mind disorder-like" when they are held dogmatically.

But dont say you dont take psychology seriously, because I make a living on it.

[Knowntje]

hahahah okay the intro was very funny

[urbster1]

Migkiller you know I think you and I really agree on more than what we think we do. I think we both agree that shwanerd should probably shut up

[aaronk1994]

WIN.

[TheIrrationalAtheist]

It's just a simple genetic fallacy, like what Atkins was saying when he debated Craig, then Craig smashed him.

[TheIrrationalAtheist]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, the intro LMFAO!!!!!

he gives Canadians a bad name