Absolutely disgusting. How you can continue to marginalize and slander Dr Paul is absolutely horrible. He should have had more time to speak than Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo ATLEAST, but instead wasnt asked a question for the first 35 minutes.
the debate was amazing it helps so much when you get real questions from real people and really reflects the candidates views please do it again you did it perfectly haha and good luck controling how long the candidates talk they never like to shut up.
Hello Steve again, just a few comments. Plant by Clintons was unfair, unfortunate, and wrong.
Theory of the debate good. Choices of questions, not so good. But the idea of this is still critical. CNN hosting also ok. Seemed a bit more lackluster than the last one. Not sure all of the whys but thanks for doing the work.
Okay The Responses sucked. Just go to the blogosphere to find out that the Debate sucked in production, while the candidates did very well.
YouTubers who made responses: get a clue and actually responde to the subject, don't show us your commentary or your recap - we're looking for a way to improve.
I'll be posting a vid response, I'm sure, but I want to throw a major soundbyte out: Please don't only pick questions based on how often questions on a subject are asked. Please also try to include questions that are important but little recognized, such as those on education, public works, regulation, technology, energy, and international treaties and trade.
Youtube didn't let users pick the question. Instead they deferred this task to CNN.
As such, the most searched candidate on Youtube (Ron Paul) got the least amount of speaking time.
The jerk, liberal Mitt Romney, who had the first youtube debate canceled due to his fear of the Youtube snowman got the most time and questions. He got his way.
Out of all the debates I've watched this one angered me the most. I'm a Ron Paul supporter so I might be a tad biased but come on... the guy raised 4 million dollars in one day and is clearly the most popular candidate on youtube, yet he receives the same amount of time as Tancredo and Hunter?
Will someone please tell us what we have to do to get him more substantial time at these things? I'm begging you.
Let youtube members choose 10 - 15 questions from those sent to the youtube debate, and ask the candidates to respond to the questions. All the candidates will get the same questions and a chance to answer them.
Steve, I thought that even though it's still got room for improvement, it was better than the other debates for Dems and Repubs. I still long to see candidates being grilled by ordinary citizens, one by one, and forced to answer the questions they most want to avoid-that's far more important than the things they want to talk about!
I haven't watched a political debate since I was forced to in high school 20 years ago. I also have never watch CNN because I don't own a TV (now I remember why). I made it a point to watch this debate and I was very disappointed in the questions picked, the one sidedness and lack of time given to some of the candidates (Yes I support Ron Paul) but anybody would be better the ruby, rudy.
I think the problem was CNN NOT youtube. They definitely went out of their way to pick out the questions they would have wanted answered so what's the point? The gay general thing I found real strange. The amount of time they gave to Giuliani and Romney I thought was too much and not enough time to the rest except for maybe Huckabee.
Youtube should have its own debate on youtube and forget CNN. It would be a lot more fair I believe. Thanks
Thank you for the debate presentation. Please strive for a serious and respectful tone, not a circus. Due to limited time, focus on biggest issues: IRAQ War and Foreign Policy? Upholding the Constitution? U.S. Defense of our allies? Patriot Act and threat to our civil liberties? Terrorism and National Security? U.S. Economy: National debt, housing crash, falling Dollar/Inflation? IRS/Tax reform? Immigration reform/border security? Improving/expanding health care to Americans?
I'd like you to specifically address why CNN asked McCain to oppose amnesty, when:
1. He's already stated that he doesn't support what he calls amnesty countless times.
2. Everyone who follows this issue knows that supporters of amnesty never call what they support amnesty and that word games are a major part of the wider "immigration debate". Those supporters use a variety of euphemisms (tinyurl dot com/2ld2e5).
So, here I was posting comments on the debate, you know on the YouTube debate page, and lo and behold after a few comments on certain candidates, I was blocked from making further comments on certain questions responded to by certain candidates. Now I'm pretty blunt, but no foul language or any of that stuff. As far as I'm concerned, your statements are, frankly, BS.
why would youtube think that cnn would actually make an unbias format for republican candidates to voice their opinions. Confederate flags? the bible? gun control? are this the only issues that we care about. Absolutely not. If you really want a youtube debate, then you should let the people decide on the questions, not cnn or not another corporate media entity which is just going to screw it up anyway.
I found they were a little biased against Ron Paul. Why did they have to ask him a question of "you and me know you aren't going to win so....." now that is just a little biased isn't it? Even for a youtube question, they had to pick it.
It's pretty clear to those of us paying close attention to the YouTube/CNN Debates that CNN inaccurately portrayed the Republican Party through its selection of the questions. We at the Save The Debate Coalition urge YouTube to find a more balanced media partner for any future debates. In the words of my friend Patrick Ruffini, YouTube gets an "A," CNN gets an "F."
The format is ridiculous and shallow. No reasonably intelligent person thinks Republicans give a fig about confederate flags or theological questions. That you even think they do demonstrates an ignorance and lack of seriousness that is breath taking in its emptiness. We are electing a President. Republicans will, despite YouTube prejudices, nominate someone who addresses issues you did not even respect Republican voters enough to ask.
Where do I start? First of all, some disclosure. I am an independent voter and have voted for members of both parties. Having said that, I am extremely dissapointed that Youtube allowed itself to be compromised by CNN. I understand that Google employees lean pretty far left, but if you want to have any credibility at all, you must show objectivity. Shame on you guys for allowing CNN to take a great tool and using it to try to bludgeon the candidates. You have a lot of growing up to do.
This is the closest the USA citizenry has been to the electoral process in generations. What you guys pulled off is very important, and a great solution for the growing chasm between Washington DC and Joe Citizen.
The Youtube Republican debate was a joke! Not because of the Republicans but because of the format. That debate almost made me ashamed to have a Youtube account. We are picking our nominee for President of the United States, the leader of the most powerful free nation on earth...not freshman high school president!
The one thing that surprised, and disappointed me a bit, was that Iraq was practically a non-issue. Considering we're in the middle of a war I would've expected that Iraq would've been highlighted a bit more. Great job though Steve on getting things together once again.
Please tell me why you think we are in a "war"? The last I saw and heard is that we are fighting various factions and militant groups. We are not at war! We are saving face in a great blunder no one can understand. If you want your government to define these terms: "War", "Preventative Intervention" and "Socioeconomic Differentiating" Then you are sacrificing freedoms for comforts! Shame on those that say they are Americans and choose the later!
Oh come on, what is wrong with some of you people? Do you really think it is Steve's fault?
That is plain ridiculous. I agree that the supposed question selection format may have lacked a real youtube user perspective, but blaming Steve? Come on, that is absurd.
Next time youtube: just let us vote on which video questions to use. Anytime you let what people having been dubbing MSM controll the process like this you are asking for some serious flamage.
Steve, how do you feel about your complete and utter failure to make this a really balanced debate/forum? Did you really have to take it up the ass from CNN?? How does irt feel to be seen as a total puppet? You should be fired... face it. You suck!
Way to let CNN censor YouTube! Somehow its hard for me to understand why they chose the questions they did for Ron Paul.
The questions were poorly chosen, nothing on Iran, the economy is something that everyone should have spoke on. Your debate could have been huge, but you screwed it up. Now people cannot take you seriously
This did not seem to be a "YouTube" debate to me. It felt more like an old-media CNN style bias fest. I'm sorry but the questions that were asked to Ron Paul (for his 90 second response) were rediculous. Asking about conspiracy theories and whether he would run as a 3rd party candidate do NOT let people know about where he stands on the issues. We had CNN executives try to make Ron Paul look bad by giving him useless questions.
keep the control freaks out of the debates . Yes i mean Cnn. ether pick a number or most PM questions . I Hate to say it but you tube lowers it self to work with news media. Freedom is on YT.
I have something else to add...2000 video's from youtube for Democratic debate, 5000 For Republican? Why is that? Who is the internets favorite? RON PAUL!!! Thats why you got 5000 videos, What are you afraid of? What are you hiding? Watch out CNN and Fox and everyone else,
The People Can Beat You This Time...We The People For The People Will Defend Ron Paul, He's for all of us! PEOPLE SIGN DAY RON PAUL DEC 1 AND 2ND, GET INVOLVED!
I cant believe the time given to jerks who you call front runners. If this is fair give all candidates fair time! One is a complete scam artist and committed adultery How Many Times? 3?
The Other an Actor and What Religion? GEEEZ, America, Wake Up! Let Your Voice Be Heard...
The Only Honest Person Who Cares For Our Freedom and Rights Is "Ron Paul"!!!
On the polls used - the majority is saying these candidates are not answering their questions.
What I've said all along - You're asking them softball questions with predetermined answers.
You want to know how to improve this BS YouTube & CNN created, try paying more attention to the politically minded that have been here on YouTube all along.
How else can someone like Ron Paul be heard? Surely questions are given to the corporate picks, not those for the people, the likes of Ron Paul, Gravel or Kucinich.
Thank you for enabling the other candidates to be heard.
The youtube debate was okay. This might not be what you want to hear, Steve, but I hope youtube isn't under contract with CNN for future debates. CNN is old media and it seems like everything bad about conventional debates is a product of CNN's heavyhanded control. I think in future debates youtube needs to partner up with C-span and institute hybrid vulgar-filter/community voting process for the questions.
There should be a YouTube debate in this format after the conventions...the two-candidate debates from the past couple elections have been terrible. YouTube to the rescue! Great work, Steve!
oops, my bad! well, look at this way. my comment was so sweet and so nice, i accidentally posted it twice! by the way, Ron Paul was the most sincere, as for democrats, I'm liking Hillary!
let me tell you what is more lame then the fact that only 4.5-7 million US citizens tuned in to the debate. For one, the questions that were asked, and most disappointingly, the fact that the other 295-297 million Americans can care less!
let me tell you what is more lame then the fact that only 4.5-7 million US citizens tuned in to the debate. For one, the questions that were asked, and most disappointingly, the fact that the other 295-297 million Americans can care less!!!
lol you sound like anderson cooper.
beabeck22 4 years ago 2
It was evident who YouTube and CNN supported. It just reinforces how out of touch with the average Joe the media is.
mudflopper 4 years ago
Absolutely disgusting. How you can continue to marginalize and slander Dr Paul is absolutely horrible. He should have had more time to speak than Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo ATLEAST, but instead wasnt asked a question for the first 35 minutes.
Shame on CNN, shame on YouTube
NapaSales150 4 years ago
I made a video for this but it took to long so I am currently trying to reply elsewhere that in places more current.
If anyone is interested in an (attempted) humorous respone, see:
/watch?v=eVor6D0uRPA
- The Sock
LowBudgetPuppets 4 years ago
the debate was amazing it helps so much when you get real questions from real people and really reflects the candidates views please do it again you did it perfectly haha and good luck controling how long the candidates talk they never like to shut up.
kooper1 4 years ago
YouTube sold out. CNN'ya!
blujaded 4 years ago
Hello Steve again, just a few comments. Plant by Clintons was unfair, unfortunate, and wrong.
Theory of the debate good. Choices of questions, not so good. But the idea of this is still critical. CNN hosting also ok. Seemed a bit more lackluster than the last one. Not sure all of the whys but thanks for doing the work.
SparklestheClown 4 years ago 2
Okay The Responses sucked. Just go to the blogosphere to find out that the Debate sucked in production, while the candidates did very well.
YouTubers who made responses: get a clue and actually responde to the subject, don't show us your commentary or your recap - we're looking for a way to improve.
aliakbar01 4 years ago
Yes, Ron Paul got as much time as Tancredo. What a joke!
And what is it about Romney that entitles him to all that airtime?
varange2 4 years ago 3
I'll be posting a vid response, I'm sure, but I want to throw a major soundbyte out: Please don't only pick questions based on how often questions on a subject are asked. Please also try to include questions that are important but little recognized, such as those on education, public works, regulation, technology, energy, and international treaties and trade.
JSResponds 4 years ago
This sucks.
AnAppealToHeavenWash 4 years ago
Youtube didn't let users pick the question. Instead they deferred this task to CNN.
As such, the most searched candidate on Youtube (Ron Paul) got the least amount of speaking time.
The jerk, liberal Mitt Romney, who had the first youtube debate canceled due to his fear of the Youtube snowman got the most time and questions. He got his way.
This sucks.
AnAppealToHeavenWash 4 years ago 3
You Tube and CNN sold out!
JoeShmoe65 4 years ago 5
the worst debate i have ever seen.
microspect 4 years ago 5
Out of all the debates I've watched this one angered me the most. I'm a Ron Paul supporter so I might be a tad biased but come on... the guy raised 4 million dollars in one day and is clearly the most popular candidate on youtube, yet he receives the same amount of time as Tancredo and Hunter?
Will someone please tell us what we have to do to get him more substantial time at these things? I'm begging you.
cujothekitten 4 years ago 4
It was AWFUL,
We dont live in a DEMOCRACY!
Why not give everyone equal TIME!? As kone questions, then let 45 seconds each, give me a break.
GHOULIANI ROMNEY and MCCAIN plus the mieda wants to pump the baptists minister who will never win.
ITS LIKE WE LIVE IN RUSSIA.
That was SAD
Go12Go 4 years ago 3
CNN should've used the top rated questions...
Let youtube members choose 10 - 15 questions from those sent to the youtube debate, and ask the candidates to respond to the questions. All the candidates will get the same questions and a chance to answer them.
Eudoxio80 4 years ago 2
those 2 million are the new ron paul supporters who never enjoyed politics
palimony 4 years ago 2
Steve, I thought that even though it's still got room for improvement, it was better than the other debates for Dems and Repubs. I still long to see candidates being grilled by ordinary citizens, one by one, and forced to answer the questions they most want to avoid-that's far more important than the things they want to talk about!
RogCBrand 4 years ago
I haven't watched a political debate since I was forced to in high school 20 years ago. I also have never watch CNN because I don't own a TV (now I remember why). I made it a point to watch this debate and I was very disappointed in the questions picked, the one sidedness and lack of time given to some of the candidates (Yes I support Ron Paul) but anybody would be better the ruby, rudy.
Hugothedog5 4 years ago 2
I think the problem was CNN NOT youtube. They definitely went out of their way to pick out the questions they would have wanted answered so what's the point? The gay general thing I found real strange. The amount of time they gave to Giuliani and Romney I thought was too much and not enough time to the rest except for maybe Huckabee.
Youtube should have its own debate on youtube and forget CNN. It would be a lot more fair I believe. Thanks
mtlava 4 years ago 7
the gay general was planted by the hillary campaign...
SushiSyogun 4 years ago
Thank you for the debate presentation. Please strive for a serious and respectful tone, not a circus. Due to limited time, focus on biggest issues: IRAQ War and Foreign Policy? Upholding the Constitution? U.S. Defense of our allies? Patriot Act and threat to our civil liberties? Terrorism and National Security? U.S. Economy: National debt, housing crash, falling Dollar/Inflation? IRS/Tax reform? Immigration reform/border security? Improving/expanding health care to Americans?
Zen029sky 4 years ago
If YT would like to preserve their reputation, let me suggest putting on debates with this format:
watch?v=xA8Kgn_48t0
And, a much better way to select user questions is described here:
tinyurl dot com/yrmhbo
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 4 years ago
debate? no.
debacle? yes.
traitorist 4 years ago 2
Steve Grove:
I'd like you to specifically address why CNN asked McCain to oppose amnesty, when:
1. He's already stated that he doesn't support what he calls amnesty countless times.
2. Everyone who follows this issue knows that supporters of amnesty never call what they support amnesty and that word games are a major part of the wider "immigration debate". Those supporters use a variety of euphemisms (tinyurl dot com/2ld2e5).
Was CNN intentionally trying to deceive?
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 4 years ago
So, here I was posting comments on the debate, you know on the YouTube debate page, and lo and behold after a few comments on certain candidates, I was blocked from making further comments on certain questions responded to by certain candidates. Now I'm pretty blunt, but no foul language or any of that stuff. As far as I'm concerned, your statements are, frankly, BS.
bbburton 4 years ago
Damn, you're cute, Steve.
Mister2716 4 years ago
isn't he? I swear he gets cuter with each video! But don't worry Steve, I do listen to what you're saying :)
Roxie21 4 years ago
why would youtube think that cnn would actually make an unbias format for republican candidates to voice their opinions. Confederate flags? the bible? gun control? are this the only issues that we care about. Absolutely not. If you really want a youtube debate, then you should let the people decide on the questions, not cnn or not another corporate media entity which is just going to screw it up anyway.
wiggit07 4 years ago 2
It made me throw up a little in my mouth
shonspirulina 4 years ago
The format is ok..but I hope YOUTUBE is not chosing sides in this..keep the critical questions coming...To ALL parties involved.
retepger 4 years ago
Ron Paul
President Paul
2008
Ron Paul is obviously clearly ahead
saltnpepper101 4 years ago
why was there such a focus on Juliani when Hucabe and Romney are in front in Iowa
therevolution2k7 4 years ago
I found they were a little biased against Ron Paul. Why did they have to ask him a question of "you and me know you aren't going to win so....." now that is just a little biased isn't it? Even for a youtube question, they had to pick it.
flufbus 4 years ago 2
It's pretty clear to those of us paying close attention to the YouTube/CNN Debates that CNN inaccurately portrayed the Republican Party through its selection of the questions. We at the Save The Debate Coalition urge YouTube to find a more balanced media partner for any future debates. In the words of my friend Patrick Ruffini, YouTube gets an "A," CNN gets an "F."
techRepublican 4 years ago
The format is ridiculous and shallow. No reasonably intelligent person thinks Republicans give a fig about confederate flags or theological questions. That you even think they do demonstrates an ignorance and lack of seriousness that is breath taking in its emptiness. We are electing a President. Republicans will, despite YouTube prejudices, nominate someone who addresses issues you did not even respect Republican voters enough to ask.
huntera123 4 years ago
Where do I start? First of all, some disclosure. I am an independent voter and have voted for members of both parties. Having said that, I am extremely dissapointed that Youtube allowed itself to be compromised by CNN. I understand that Google employees lean pretty far left, but if you want to have any credibility at all, you must show objectivity. Shame on you guys for allowing CNN to take a great tool and using it to try to bludgeon the candidates. You have a lot of growing up to do.
stevefox247 4 years ago
This is the closest the USA citizenry has been to the electoral process in generations. What you guys pulled off is very important, and a great solution for the growing chasm between Washington DC and Joe Citizen.
Stravingus 4 years ago
The Youtube Republican debate was a joke! Not because of the Republicans but because of the format. That debate almost made me ashamed to have a Youtube account. We are picking our nominee for President of the United States, the leader of the most powerful free nation on earth...not freshman high school president!
SparkRoomProductions 4 years ago
The one thing that surprised, and disappointed me a bit, was that Iraq was practically a non-issue. Considering we're in the middle of a war I would've expected that Iraq would've been highlighted a bit more. Great job though Steve on getting things together once again.
faintstarlite 4 years ago 2
Please tell me why you think we are in a "war"? The last I saw and heard is that we are fighting various factions and militant groups. We are not at war! We are saving face in a great blunder no one can understand. If you want your government to define these terms: "War", "Preventative Intervention" and "Socioeconomic Differentiating" Then you are sacrificing freedoms for comforts! Shame on those that say they are Americans and choose the later!
icey0076 4 years ago
Your A Master-Debater.
MasteRxPeteY 4 years ago
this is all helpful to hear - please keep the comments coming, it's helpful to hear your thoughts and ideas.
citizentube 4 years ago
Steve is a lefty coward hack who picked idiot questions only a naive lefty would think are relevant to Republicans.
Tell you what: let's have Republican activists pick the questions for the democrat debate.
huntera123 4 years ago
Oh come on, what is wrong with some of you people? Do you really think it is Steve's fault?
That is plain ridiculous. I agree that the supposed question selection format may have lacked a real youtube user perspective, but blaming Steve? Come on, that is absurd.
Next time youtube: just let us vote on which video questions to use. Anytime you let what people having been dubbing MSM controll the process like this you are asking for some serious flamage.
nekopheliac 4 years ago
Great debate-ness!
maddogza 4 years ago
Steve, how do you feel about your complete and utter failure to make this a really balanced debate/forum? Did you really have to take it up the ass from CNN?? How does irt feel to be seen as a total puppet? You should be fired... face it. You suck!
icey0076 4 years ago
Steve,
This could have been groundbreaking, but you screwed it up. Now people cannot take you seriously.
The questions were a joke....
Are you stoned bro?
DevBlazed 4 years ago
Hey Steve,
Way to let CNN censor YouTube! Somehow its hard for me to understand why they chose the questions they did for Ron Paul.
The questions were poorly chosen, nothing on Iran, the economy is something that everyone should have spoke on. Your debate could have been huge, but you screwed it up. Now people cannot take you seriously
DevBlazed 4 years ago 2
CNN, Let Ron Paul Be Heard! The People are speaking! Give him air time!!! Its your future too!!!
cathyromine 4 years ago 3
This did not seem to be a "YouTube" debate to me. It felt more like an old-media CNN style bias fest. I'm sorry but the questions that were asked to Ron Paul (for his 90 second response) were rediculous. Asking about conspiracy theories and whether he would run as a 3rd party candidate do NOT let people know about where he stands on the issues. We had CNN executives try to make Ron Paul look bad by giving him useless questions.
d991 4 years ago 6
keep the control freaks out of the debates . Yes i mean Cnn. ether pick a number or most PM questions . I Hate to say it but you tube lowers it self to work with news media. Freedom is on YT.
czarwright 4 years ago 3
My son is in my lap and he just yelled out "Hey! You were there!" when the video went to the debates : ) Congratulations on the viewership!
TheFamousStacie 4 years ago
I have something else to add...2000 video's from youtube for Democratic debate, 5000 For Republican? Why is that? Who is the internets favorite? RON PAUL!!! Thats why you got 5000 videos, What are you afraid of? What are you hiding? Watch out CNN and Fox and everyone else,
The People Can Beat You This Time...We The People For The People Will Defend Ron Paul, He's for all of us! PEOPLE SIGN DAY RON PAUL DEC 1 AND 2ND, GET INVOLVED!
cathyromine 4 years ago
more likely that it was the december vs july factor, not the ron paul factor.
talismania 4 years ago
I cant believe the time given to jerks who you call front runners. If this is fair give all candidates fair time! One is a complete scam artist and committed adultery How Many Times? 3?
The Other an Actor and What Religion? GEEEZ, America, Wake Up! Let Your Voice Be Heard...
The Only Honest Person Who Cares For Our Freedom and Rights Is "Ron Paul"!!!
cathyromine 4 years ago
I think the wall behind you is painted with blood.
robshred66 4 years ago
On the polls used - the majority is saying these candidates are not answering their questions.
What I've said all along - You're asking them softball questions with predetermined answers.
You want to know how to improve this BS YouTube & CNN created, try paying more attention to the politically minded that have been here on YouTube all along.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
I think the YouTube is good for democracy.
How else can someone like Ron Paul be heard? Surely questions are given to the corporate picks, not those for the people, the likes of Ron Paul, Gravel or Kucinich.
Thank you for enabling the other candidates to be heard.
greatbroad 4 years ago
I thought everything that involved the YouTube end of it, was great!
Genuine questions, thoughtfully asked, from lots of different kinds of people. Who otherwise would never get a chance to ask them. So, *****!
CNN held up their end. And the rest was, predictable. :)
my15minutes 4 years ago
It was great, but unlike the Democrats debate there was not much follow up questions from the youtubers.
davi01 4 years ago
The youtube debate was okay. This might not be what you want to hear, Steve, but I hope youtube isn't under contract with CNN for future debates. CNN is old media and it seems like everything bad about conventional debates is a product of CNN's heavyhanded control. I think in future debates youtube needs to partner up with C-span and institute hybrid vulgar-filter/community voting process for the questions.
hill0118 4 years ago 3
I thought it was great!
There should be a YouTube debate in this format after the conventions...the two-candidate debates from the past couple elections have been terrible. YouTube to the rescue! Great work, Steve!
GoRemy 4 years ago
oops, my bad! well, look at this way. my comment was so sweet and so nice, i accidentally posted it twice! by the way, Ron Paul was the most sincere, as for democrats, I'm liking Hillary!
SoCal4LifeSD 4 years ago
let me tell you what is more lame then the fact that only 4.5-7 million US citizens tuned in to the debate. For one, the questions that were asked, and most disappointingly, the fact that the other 295-297 million Americans can care less!
SoCal4LifeSD 4 years ago
let me tell you what is more lame then the fact that only 4.5-7 million US citizens tuned in to the debate. For one, the questions that were asked, and most disappointingly, the fact that the other 295-297 million Americans can care less!!!
SoCal4LifeSD 4 years ago
Hey I recognize that wall! I think. Nice background choice.
BradOFarrell 4 years ago
No clear leader?
GSMMW 4 years ago
IT WAS LAME!!! :P
budikey 4 years ago