Venus Project tour with Jacque Fresco Part 1

[davidgev86]

All this from a man who dropped out of school at the age of 14... our education system is worthless!

[AdonisKingAXC]

I find him interesting and intelligent... but I still find myself dubious of the Technocratic ideas he espouses.. 

[Zgamer618]

I agree with most of what was said, but some items are going going to have a remain personal items...for a time.

[FreeBlago1]

What if c-a-t  spelled dog?

[imqtkd]

i love you jacque thank you for sticking with it through all these years the support is all coming your way faster than you can imagine

[transfixedtornado]

Jacques Fresco: Your better God.

:P

[jrgoku1000]

If you like this, there is a petition.

[onerizle]

What island did Jacque go to in the south seas? Tomotu? how do you spell it?

[walter0bz]

Property Rights !!

[technatezin]

@walter0bz "Property Rights !!" Too inflexible and arbitrary.

1. considering that property rights are man made constructs that is only enforceable through force of arms and is made "legitimate" by a written law code, what makes them valid at a time of social-economic collapse? Or put in another way, what makes property "rights" that is "owned" through the mechanism of monetary exchange any more or less valid than a dog marking it's territory with urine?

[walter0bz]

@technatezin

Property Rights : In future, you will have a patch of land or a share of land,("capital") you can only survive using the "income" that falls out of the sky (water + sunlight) to live on.

land ownership should incentivize people to balance family size with what the land can support (i.e. your land will be divided up amongst offspring, too many and they have too little land each)

[technatezin]

@walter0bz Actually, human labor for food is the worse possible option and will only lead back to slavery or semi-slavery of the feudalist society type. People will use pack animals like cows, horses or human slaves if they are forced to do hard labor. A brutal type of hierarchy of the kind we haven't seen since the medieval ages are inevitable if we follow the monetary system to it's logical conclusion that is if we survive the (likely nuclear) wars for resources.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

only population control ASAP can avoid this scenario.

my frustration with VP is no one admits it.

its always "money causes scarcity, remove money and we'd have abundance!"

..no, we would not.

we already live in an age of abundance from oil, coming to an end, and its' going to be a real shock when it's over.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz There are a number of motivating factors for increased fertility and large families. Notice though that in societies where women have the least rights and are enslaved in agrarian cultures then they are viewed as nothing more than baby makers and male children are prized for "helping out" on the farm. With your approach large dumb inbred families are actually inevitable and a lot more desirable than in high tech. VP society.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

if we can't get the population down with one-child policy we are fucked. It is the ONLY way to avoid a culling process when the carrying-capacity shrinks post Peak Oil.

This is simple Science. Why can't VPers admit it?

One Child Policy keeps the genetic variety.

I notice that china does allow more babies for its minorities to avoid the "inbreeding" issue. One Child Policy is the method that will produce least opposition.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz True, there will be a lot of mayhem, killing and genocide when peak oil finally comes around and the typical consumer idiot finds out that there's nothing he can exchange his worthless paper debt coupons we all call money with for food and shelter because he's been mis-educated into thinking screwing other people for THEIR debt coupons in a big contrived type of monopoly game society is a REAL and natural way of doing things rather than using the scientific approach, but what is NEXT?

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

>> but what is NEXT"

maybe elite will emerge from their bunkers and they will decide. we will be dead.

or, stone age. I've read a convincing book that says we can't even go back to iron age because all the easy ores are already dug up (and of course we've damaged natural ecosystems, without regular forests to exploit carrying capacity will be LOWER than before oil age)

so.. if we dont have a global one-child policy NOW, its all a moot point.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin

>>"there will be a lot of mayhem, killing and genocide"

Not just "a lot."

BILLIONS will die.

once again: before Oil multiplied the carrying capacity, there were 1.5 billion. that means AT LEAST 5.5 billion will die in the following wars.

fancy your chances ?

[walter0bz]

@technatezin math error sorry,

1.5 -> 6.7 today means "at least 5.2 billion to go"

but it will 'oveshoot' because of course after nuclear war carrying capacity will be lower, plus we've damaged ecosystems.. thats why they keep saying 0.5billion I think, they've made a reasonable estimate.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

even people in the 3rd world benefit from oil tech.

we use things wastefully, then throw away junk which they recycle gettting every last scrap of use (shanty-towns etc). Plus they do trade with 1st world and use oil-based pesticides/fertilizers. Look up "The Green Revolution" on wikipedia.

Having said that, I think post oil the worst place to be will be a modern 1st world city.

holy crap we're really fucked.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

to put in perspective

WW2 killed 3% of the worlds population over 5 years

we are talking *at least* 80% unable to feed themselves after oil infrastructure breaks down.

LMAO. yes we'll all peacefully co-operate after that

[most likely scenario is it will be spread over decades, if the current authorities hold onto power]

[technatezin]

@walter0bz "LMAO. yes we'll all peacefully co-operate after that"

Well, there is always hope that people will learn their lesson to not fight each other like kids on the playground if smacked hard enough by their parents in this case the "parental punishment" could be global nuclear war, but then there are also studies that say corporal nuclear punishment doesn't work, but will only create more violent monsters so I'm undecided on the issue.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

its a moot point.

one scenario would be "drawing lots" to see who starves peacefully

another would be democratic voting, we give eachother points and the lowest 80% end up starving, i.e. maybe 250million per year for 20 years

war(or fascist state) is inevitable really. the people with the guns will make the rules. the really smart ones have survival bunkers and plans already in place. Hence the NWO theories.

are you decided on the One Child Policy ?

[technatezin]

@walter0bz It's a possibility that an enforced one child policy is necessary for our current nuclear family setup with one male and female pair group, but that is not the only alternative. The single pair based family itself is a cultural artifact and not a genetic law of "human nature".

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

i would agree that ending nuclear family would help with population control (i.e. the people that whine 'we want a boy and a girl'.

even extended families like people turning to cousins etc more

[technatezin]

@walter0bz Oh, believe me. The traditional pair based family is dysfunctional and insane to the extreme. The children are mentally screwed up which they then pass on to THEIR children when they become adults and have pair based families of their own. As an environment for raising children it's wide open door for bullies, pimps, mafia criminal types, religious nutcases, abusers, rapists and pedophiles. So beside not being effective for population control, it's a factory for turning out crazies.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz In a pair based family system the only way for the population to remain stable or decrease over a long period of time is to have 2 or less children, but that's it. There is no other way for population numbers to remain stable in this type of setup which also means the psychology of the child is severely warped in this type of insular and dysfunctional social unit.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz But, the bigger question is what is the necessity of preserving this type of archaic social unit other than the need to respect tradition, respect religion or the psychological need for control and domination, which sometimes leads to spousal and child abuse, by the one "head" (usually male) of the household?

[walter0bz]

@technatezin

"but what is NEXT?"

sadly, Thomas Malthus is about to be proved spectacularly right.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

think about it.

if you want a robot to make your food, you need space for solar panels to run the robot. and space for solar panels to drive the robot construction.

pure human labour will result in the highest Carrying Capacity.

robots are a luxury we'll only have if we reduce even further.

Now, people will disagree. Some will want "maximum number of humans". Others will want "higher quality of life". Thats why we wont all agree on sharing everything.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

humans are already machines designed to source food from the jungle.. deploying a human for anything other than food production is already very wastefull of the limbs, eyes, advanced motor control etc that we all have.

.. but personally I would aim to reduce population much further so we can continue developping robots & AI - since these can take life beyond Earth and create higher population in the longrun.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz "Property Rights !!"

2. Considering that physical laws of conservation of space and energy to be empirically and universally valid that is any physical body cannot occupy two separate spaces larger than it's own volume at the same time then how is property rights that is the "occupation" or "owning" of two separate spaces larger than yourself and in some cases much larger than yourself (like multiple houses and cars) valid? Property laws are therefore unnatural and must be invalid.

[xephyr1000]

Excellent

5★★★★★

5❤❤❤❤❤

5☮☮☮☮☮

☯NE Family, ☯NE Tribe, ☯NE Nation, ☯NE World, ☯NE Galaxy, ☯NE Universe. ☯NE L❤VE

[Elzon1]

One Spaghetti Monster XD

[Youanden]

Two! Two Spaghetti Monsters! Nice...

[CFrostyTheSnowman]

I like his ideas and he has alot of sense but I don't like those kind of restrictions like with the cars. I hate how cars seat belt things beep at me all day. You can't take that kind of freedom of choice away from people.

[Elzon1]

With a more effecient and safe transportation system seat belts might not need to exist, so good by to those annoying seat belt alert systems (I hate them too)

"The Venus Project" doesn't mean for there to be a centralized system neccesarily. The system (when created) will probably use a more free market perspective.

[CFrostyTheSnowman]

Yeah I mean, I know what you're saying. I'm not new to Fresco's ideas. Things like the mag lev train and what not. I don't don't like being ferried is all. As long as if I want to I can build my own vehicle and drive it around then I don't care haha. If conventional roads were done away with and I had the means I would build an aircraft to fly around. Really don't want to be driven around by automated crap though. May as well have the machine wipe my butt and feed me and just never move :P

[Elzon1]

I don't see the option of having your own personal vehicle ever being taken away. Its good to know that you aren't new to his ideas either, how long did you know about Jacque Freso before the trailer for Zeitgeist Addendum came out? I knew about Jacque about a year and a half before the Zeigeist Addendum trailer came out, me and Peter probably found out about Jacque around the same time XD

[walter0bz]

your own personal vehicle ? isn't that like "private property"?

in VP utopia, everyone travels on foot.

no one NEEDS a vehicle, because no one needs to go anywhere... because no one needs to work!

[technatezin]

@walter0bz What's the obsession with "work"? Is your brain so warped that you can't imagine a freely associating society of people who do things because they want to? What is jail but the punishment of enforced inactivity? If inactivity (non-work) is so enjoyable why is the world the way it is where we have technology instead of apes flinging shit at each other? Further, your premise that a vehicle is only useful for the activity of paid slavery (work) is demonstrably false. What are RVs

[walter0bz]

@technatezin - ?!

soon we'll be past peak oil and billions will starve or die in wars

the future is hard manual labour as we go back to growing crops by hand, without tractors.

We have technology because it allowed us to multiply (e.g. irrigation, transporting & storing food, global economies of scale)

a venus project style society with renewable energy & robots, high quality of life could be sustained for 500million people, hence all the NWO depopulation theories - probably some truth to them

[technatezin]

@walter0bz Even if that is true we (most of us) will not end up in hard manual labor, but brutal slavery by those who are willing to use force to whip people into being their pack animals in the fields. Are people presently willing to accept this sort of situation since they have it so good with present technology? The history of revolutions and civil wars against inhumane systems demonstrates that people will not stand for it.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

correct, revolutions & civil wars, and "iraq++" are inevitable after peak oil,

and the winners will end up in hard manual labour to sustain themselves or may enslave the losers.

its not a pretty picture, and pretending oil+$ is "artificial scarcity" doesn't help people understand the grim reality we're in for.

Only a One Child Policy can minimize suffering.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz Also, why does food always need to be grown by tractors driving over soil? Because it was traditionally done that way? Consider all variables: air, water, soil, fuel, motion, weather, time and information. If you actually do that instead of being inflexible by sticking with tradition then you'll realize something is wrong with present day methods. They are actually the least efficient methods for growing food, but they are TRADITIONAL. In one word, fuck tradition.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

food is also easy to grow in plastic hydroponic containers..

note, PLASTIC.. made of oil.

*** All these high tech venus project visions project forward expectations from the OIL AGE ***

trade,$, "Profit" has figured out the most efficient food growing methods which is why we've had a huge population boom. 1.5billion before oil age, 6.7billion today and still rising. population was 0.5billion before industrial revolution when we started using Fossil Fuels.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

growing food - vertical farms only make sense if you have nuclear power for the lights.

Sustainable energy would be plants growing on "solar" so it just boils down to land area.. land+Water. Simple low tech.

as for geothermal there are already chemosynthesizer bacteria using that, i doubt we can do better. (I doubt' they're particularly tasty for humans, there might be other parts of the biosphere that feed on them)

[technatezin]

@walter0bz why "vertical" farms? Current agricultural geometry is not optimized for energy use nor sunlight use nor water use. Consider the use of water from rain which is not collected at optimal levels nor is the geometry of the farm (flat land) shaped at optimal levels to collect the most amount of sunlight from either the sky or solar reflectors. We can do a lot better.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin - >> "why vertical farms"

Have you heard of "Trees".

these have evolved symbiotically with animals.

they grow the vertical solar-connecting infrastructure ("branches") using nanotechnology; they evolved "Fruit" and "Nuts" : so that animals (e.g. "Humans") will eat that instead of the solar-gathering leaves.

you think vertical farms will do better than that ?LMAO

vertical farms are nonsense that assume abundant energy for artificial lighting e.g. nuclear energy.

[technatezin]

@walter0bz Actually trees "compete" to crowd out solar radiation from reaching the ground for other vegetation to grow with. That is why in a jungle when you are situated beneath the high tree canopy you are mostly in the shade and will likely need another light source like a torch to find your way around. Again, this obsession with the "natural" way of doing things when you think about it is just silly when you consider we are a lot smarter than trees.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

LMAO

where does your oxygen and climate come from

ROFL PMSL LMAO

microbes rule the earth. algea, bacteria.

One thing TRUE scientists are smart enough to admit it: we shouldn't fuck so much with these intricate mechanisms that have already evolved.

if you think we're smarter than nature,

compare [1] human brain to silicon computers

[2] human robots to animals

we've multiplied vastly using fossil-fuel energy.. thats all. When that energy is gone, much of our tech will be useless.

[walter0bz]

@technatezin -

the only long term value our tech could bring is space colonization. in space we can multiply as much as our artificial constructed environments allow.

but the number of humans on earth should be capped to prevent further destruction.

think of the film "silent running" but done backwards.

naturally space colonization will only be available to small elite, takes so much energy to get someone into orbit...

[walter0bz]

@technatezin

" nor is the geometry of the farm (flat land) shaped at optimal levels to collect the most amount of sunlight from either the sky "

LMAO.

again, see "trees", "leaves", "branches". Plants are pretty good at this.

we can shift light around with mirrors but it takes *fossil fuel energy* to make them.. glass, metals much more scarce before the coal or oil age.

[W1z3k]

You would definitly have the ability to design your own vehicles, and the factory and the resources would also be provided for you to build the desired vehicles. So It's a "bit" more freedom then what we have today.

[Elzon1]

A "bit" being an understatement, lol.

[mosaicmaster1]

@CFrostyTheSnowman Don't think this way.Look at the future in a positive way.And if you have the Brains to build your own aircraft the means will appear.

[80sand90sforever]

What a wonderful man. i thought the same thing, people will probably research him in the future.

[Elzon1]

Perhaps

[WhoisJacqueFresco]

Isn't it amazing how he gets you to question your own ideas with questions. I use to visit him years ago. My mom has been a fan since the 80's. Remember that if you want to see the change you need to accumulate the resources to set an example. I am currently setting up a non-profit to collect funds to and create a self contained community. EVERYONE NEEDS TO VISIT HIM BEFORE HE MOVES TO ecuador , if he still is going to move there, or dies.

[Elzon1]

It is amazing that he can get you to question your own beliefs although, when I first came across him it was waaayyyyyy before Zeitgeist (like a full year before Zeitgeist Addendum). Good luck on setting up the non-profit, sweet!

[ericspring]

That sounds great. I just went down to see him about a week ago, and I'm looking to go down again in a month to bring another group of friends. Since I'm not far, I'm also going to be trading in my car for a van to try and start a shuttle service to make it easier for groups to go down for orientations.

[Elzon1]

Did you get any footage? If not, did you get to ask some interesting questions? Does it cost anything for an orientation? Did he have any new ideas on a transition plan from this society into one similar to what he talked about? If he doesn't I have an interesting idea I think could work as a trasition system, I would probably have to record a video to explain it though.......

So....... anything new or interesting?

[ericspring]

I didn't get any video footage, just a lot of pictures. There have been a lot of countries starting to take interest in his ideas, so they're focusing mainly on getting the word out now and getting more people onboard with it so they'd have a better chance of getting funding for the first city. The main agreement they must have with the first country that decides to take the project on though is that once it's finished, they must open their borders to ALL countries. From there, you watch it grow

[Elzon1]

Sounds great! We will keep on spreading the word! So after we get the first city done and have a working social system in place we have to let anyone who wants to come in do so, sounds good!

[Spanky872]

Video's like this will be priceless in the future

[Elzon1]

I hope so :)

[ShavaShav]

Emphasis on the "priceless" haha

[sirenemily]

i support you %100 percent in was in the nyc zday yesterday ..wish i was as lucky as you to experience this...hopefully one day....take care and keep up the good work ! i will too! xoxo

[Elzon1]

Well, I didn't get to go because of my financial situation, but I did find some footage of the event! Z-Day was big, but of course it could be even bigger!

[jrgoku1000]

sign the VENUS Project Petition online!

we can make it happen!

[Haik0]

we can make library's digital, and information can be free to download. Information there is common for all and can be kept updated by scientists.

[Elzon1]

Yes, I agree!

I will be editing these videos for better navigation.

[brentoneccles]

Excellent stuff.