Early years education: Sweden versus the UK Part 3 (of 3)

[Deidaranx9]

*many children feel great pressure, and might lose faith in the system. Grades in 6th year would be the solution, I belive

[Deidaranx9]

I live in Sweden, and I think this system is great. I spent my younger years of school learning some maths, and some english, but mostly I learned how to be a good friend. I interacted with other children, and i grew confident of who I was, and whom I wanted to be at n early age. Letting children truly be playfull and creative can never ever go wrong. But things can go wrong later when children aren't graded untill your 8th year. This means you've only got two years to get used it, and many chi

[aryllia]

Oh, I think I know why the kids age 10-ish excels in literacy.

By them they'd be interested in TV shows with subtitles. Usually it's just films for smaller children that are dubbed, like Disney movies and that stuff.

Either way "big budget for many years" isn't really valid. They get a budget for one year and after that year they can't touch those money any more. If there's leftovers of the budget they can't store it for the next year or anything ;)

[kojimapie]

I'm in the UK and i learnt to read and write at age 4-5. Primary school (pre-school) was fine for me. It was High school that seemed to be lacking behind.

[wallenbergphoto]

This picture is sadly about to be destroyd here in Sweden. The New rightwing party is cutting taxes, State goverment, communual sectors are cutting down becuase of this. Soon we are going UK's way. If the old party could keep there politics and change it back to the way it was in the 80's things would be a lot better then today.

/Danny, Sweden.

[ensittare]

I grew up in the swedish ghetto, my pre-school was nothing like this, however this is pretty much how my youngest siblings pre-school look like, since my parents moved.

[FlaschMangaStudios]

I don't think it is when you start learning, it's more HOW you learn. My cousin who lives in Stockholm started to learn english in 1st grade and I ( who live in Malmö) started in 3rd grade. Now both of us turn 16 this year and we speak equaly good english ( my spelling can be worked on though)

[antek250000]

School learned me nothing, I've wasted my time. Most of thing I can do, I learned home with help of my mom and dad. Swedish system of education is Utopia! Childern live under totally control of goverment and clerks. I'm glad that i don't live in Sweden.

[swingdancinglolz]

perhaps another one of our problems is that teacher's put too much emphasis on the test because of state wide or national standards. that's something to consider i suppose. it's not over testing it's just testing in the wrong ways.

[swingdancinglolz]

this looks a lot like american preschool education. the main problem with our (i'm american) education system i believe is the huge disparities that exist with funding from one district to the next, and even one state to the next. children here aren't really tested until around 4th or 5th grade, which is about 10 years old. even then the tests aren't really used for placement. i wouldn't say that kids here are seriously tested until about 16 or 17.

[ubbecykelkedja]

This is quite interesting, because I am literally shocked to hear that this isn't how things work all over Europe at least. I would personally probably have hated growing up as a kid in the UK/ US preschool system and probably would have been sick'n'tired of school before 7th grade. I just had fun at kindergarden/ preschool and fooled around until I started school at the age of 7. I could read and write perfectly at the age of 8.

[GaeilgeSpraoi]

I love Sweden. It's such a wonderful country. so is Finland and Denmark! In Ireland, I think we have good preschool but primary and secondary schools are going the way the UK ones are, fucking league tabels and scrabble for places and also same sex and religious PUBLIC schools which pisses me off big time!!! :/

[MikaelUmaN]

This makes me nauseated.

The program segment prints a false picture of some utopia that doesn't exist.

Yes, it's true that the school system has been well-funded and it's true that we don't place prestige on tests etc. in the early years.

It is also true that performance, especially in math, has gone down consistently. This is true for most western countries.

While I share many values portrayed in this video, they do not equal better education.

[TheReliquary]

Thanks for your insights Mikael! It's all relative isn't it? If you experience what passes for preschool education in the UK, the Swedish system IS utopian! But Sweden itself is no utopia.

For improving maths, maybe we need to look to Finland and see what they do? I've seen at first hand the shockingly bad maths abilities of many Swedish 16+ students. I suspect the solution to that problem lies outside the scope of this film (i.e. in primary & secondary maths education).

[SWEmanque]

Im so glad im not from the UK or USA!

[WWC4Kuhns]

why? is it so great where you are? ALL of it? Education? Politics? Government? Religion? Freedoms? Crime? Where could you be that the UK or USA are so bad? BTW, being "from" the UK or USA doesn't mean that it is a bad place to be born; perhaps where you live now is better. I wouldn't care if I was born in a 3rd world country; it's nice to be where I am now, though

[SoldatenArvidsjaur23]

Sweden, the nation of least corruption, most literacy, best knowledge of English in the non-English speaking world, most well developed social security in the world.

However, immigration and political neglect of immigration, school and crime is tearing up the people's home of the Kingdom of Sweden.

[Lilia1992]

I'm in Britain. I did my first formal exam when I was 7.

[ImpactTeachers]

This is amazing. The style is so needed in the UK and throughout the world.

Kudos to Sweden!

[prana888]

very impressive. it is so hard for this standard of preschool to be in singapore. the government does subsidize but not much for schools to provide swedish standards.

the main concern is costs.

[Vaniillan]

The thing in Sweden is that only because pree-schools don't teach these things, does'nt mean we don't learn. When the children knows the basics, letters and numbers, and still has the motivation to learn more, then you have easy-tought young students when they gets to the age of about six ore seven.

As cind of an answer to kiwikiwifinland, I was an exchangestudent in Germany some years ago. In the school I visited, the children who made that test were only ten. We almost did'nt belive them!

[krewpart]

As an early childhood specialist, I believe that the Swedish approach is the best for children, long term and short term. Another equally brilliant method is the Reggio Emilia schools in Italy in which the "creative child within' develops and is nourished.

[kiwikiwifinland]

I'm Dutch. I don't want my children to be educated the way I was. My primary school decided that my secondary school had to be a low-level school because I was stupid and I would never get far. I had to fight myself to the top, and I made it.. but I will never put my children through it.. NEVER! how can you make 12 year olds do a test that will decide the rest of their lives?

Now I am in Finland, where children are educated equally untill the age of 16.

anyway, GO SWEDEN!! =D

[CyberWendus]

Immigration to your country is destroying the working conditions and wages of your own workforce.

[TheReliquary]

Well, I don't think immigration's the only cause - weak unions, political apathy, Thatcherism, you name it... but you're right, working conditions & wages are a joke in my country.

That's why I don't see myself returning in the foreseeable future. Here in Sweden conditions and wages are so much better due to stronger unions. Plus you can actually buy land and live off it - impossible in my country.

Anyway, why have my Polish (former) neighbours gone home? What do you think is going on?

[CyberWendus]

I wasn't talking about the UK I was talking about Sweden. I thought you were Swedish.

[WWC4Kuhns]

I am not sure TheReliquary said what nationality he is; he said he IS in Sweden and not returning to "my country". He likes living in Sweden, as it seems and would not return to the UK. Am I right, TheReliquary?

[TheReliquary]

I'm British. I moved to Sweden and I think I'll stay here. It's not really home, and it's not perfect, but it offers me more freedom than the UK.

England has freedoms that I'm uninterested in (e.g. consumer "choice") whereas Sweden has more worthwhile freedoms (e.g. freedom to be a child, to roam around the countryside, to take time off work to be with your children, freedom from off-licenses/liqor stores on every street corner, etc. etc.)

[CyberWendus]

Also you shouldn't blame Thatcher for was is happenning in the UK. She created a strong economy. Immigration is the cause of low wages and lack of jobs.

[TheReliquary]

"...a 3rd world country of corporate princes and the impoverished." (CyberW.)

GB's "Gini coefficient" (inequality measure) grew from 25 in 1979 to 34 in 1990, where it remains because the UK continues to follow Thatcher's free market policies.

Maggie was great in many ways but not economically. Her '80s revival was built on the financial service industry - enough said!

Poland, on the other hand has real industry - outsourced from UK & Sweden.

On exiting the EU - you're spot on my friend!

[CyberWendus]

The EU is just an excuse. The real problem is greedy corporations that want cheap labour.

[TheReliquary]

No, the real problem is greedy people - after all, we all want cheap goods and there are very few who ask questions.

Even your argument about restricting immigration was appealing to greed because it was emphasising the economic consequences.

And as for the EU, well it is an excuse, you're right. It's an excuse for our govts to implement free market policies without consulting the people who elected them. The EU is totally undemocratic. Unless it's radically reformed, we should leave.

[CyberWendus]

You're right about the EU. Nobody votes for the politicians in Brussels. The EU has no benefits for anybody expect for the big businesses that want cheap workers. There is no point in the EU. It will NEVER be reformed. It should be devolved and consigned to history.

[WWC4Kuhns]

I agree: the real problem is greedy people. Socialists would have you believe that everyone should have the same things, no matter what they do. Read labels! People leave their own homelands to migrate to places they think will be better for them and their families. Both countries actually lose, I think.

[Dennan]

yep, but it wasent like that before, it all started at 2000, when alot of immigrants started to come, ruin everything we built up... it stills holds on quite good, but i dont know if we will be able to regain other old prime again.

[whathitthefan]

Massimmigration to sweden consists mainly of illiterates, criminals, muslims and welfare cases, almost all of them claim refugee status without having any. Over a million is now unemployed plus a million swedes unemployed. That have destroyed the society, most schools have daily crimes, robberys, riots etc. 4000 swedish schools have burned the recent few years. Immigrant burn down all kind of buildings and created ghettos everywhere. Sweden is now a total chaos with European crime records.

[notblondeswede]

That's false.

Don't go spread those lies. I'm 16 and have grown up all over SWeden and I'm 17, I know more about it than you do

[Whopzer]

@notblondeswede: It's true, but the media won't tell you that. Sure, just a small part of the immigrants are doing these things, but a small part is to much.

[notblondeswede]

Haha I wrote that when I was just turning 17, so it looked weird how if first said 16 and then 17 :)

[hiredhelp]

I have pets that are smarter than you.

[hiredhelp]

above post @whathittthefan. Obviuos to anyone with half a brain but non the less.

[jak0bz]

It's more because you have half a brain you would think that...

[CyberWendus]

I wonder why the Swedes are so hell bent on ruining their own country?

[CyberWendus]

Underneath the veneer of generous welfare and high taxes is a different Sweden entirely. That is the real Sweden. The good Sweden we all thought we knew was just a false disguise. Thank you Sweden, for showing your true colours to the rest of the world.

[TheReliquary]

Interesting points, CyberWendus. Swedish labour laws and tax system seem to favour big business over small - medium sized firms, (though I'm no expert).

Lack of minimum wage is also a growing problem - unions still have a lot of power to set much higher basic wages than in the UK but a significant section of the workforce lack union representation and a legal min wage would help them.

However, I don't understand the point about foreign recruitment. Isn't outsourcing a bigger issue?

[CyberWendus]

Before 2004 there was outsourcing of manufacturing industry but no free movement of labour. This allowed countries to develop a service based economy where workers were well paid. But now with free movement of labour nobody is well paid.

[TheReliquary]

The service based economy also has problems with lots of low paid "McJobs" which is why I think it's a crying shame that both the UK and current Swedish govts are quite happy to prop up banks but are unwilling to help the few remaining manufacturers survive the current recession. Neither are they prepared to invest in infrastructure and so provide jobs.

8 Polish building workers in my street recently left Sweden to go back home to work...

[CyberWendus]

I know that you will sometimes have to employ a limited number of guest workers if there is a genuine labour shortage. What I am against is "free movement of labour" that undercuts peoples wages. Thats why I think that the UK should quit the EU and so should Sweden.

(Poles aren't too bad actually, better than the drunken badly behaved Swedes we have in our South London street.)

[CyberWendus]

The reason the "McJobs" are low paid is because of immigrants.

Well at least 8 Swedish workers can now have their jobs back.

Sweden was stupid to open the doors to immigrants. You will obviously get millions of them.

It will completely destroy the social fabric of your country. It will completely destroy the environmental recourses of your country. It will completely destroy any hope of low skilled people having any sort of a decent standard of living in your country.

[jak0bz]

free movement is not a one way street and most of the labours that come from east europe comes for jobs that noone wants to do and they rarely stay.

Does that are unemployed could use this mayor opertunity to go to norway for some time to work where they have the opposite problem from sweden.

[CyberWendus]

Sweden was the ONLY country in the EU to welcome migrants from all of the new accession countries. In addition to this they now want companies to be able to hire anybody from any country. Also there is no minimum wage.

This cheap labour migration is a plan to make the corporations rich while working folks are denied any hope of having any sort of a decent standard of living. This will create a third world country of corporate princes and the impoverished.

[guyonfire87]

well sweden is good with preeschooler but when they come up to the 6-9 grade it gets worse i have read in the paper that manny kids never gets good grades

[elisepld]

I agree - Finland maybe offers a better model than Sweden for grades 6-9, but what both countries have in common is an education system that is miles ahead of England.

[bboner9]

Props to the kid with the Oregon Ducks shirt at 4:25. I still feel America has the best universities in the world though.

[MondoBeno]

When I was teaching Special Ed in New York, I used to email foreign teachers to try and find out where we went wrong.

1. Sweden has a lower birth rate. In NY, you have teen pregnancy, absent fathers, a mother who work long hours to support her family and has no time for her three (illigitimate) children.

2. Swedes only feed the kids healthy food.

3. The Swedes don't push kids to go to college.

[Cohac]

A good example of the succes of the semi-socialist system, high taxes but high returns for those who need!

[digimastr101]

I so want to go to Sweden and talk to these teachers and parents. I would want to know if the people mind being taxed to pay for this. I am a preschool teacher with a degree. I am now a homemaker and teaching our 3yrold with three of her friends a couple times a week. This video has made me do a complete 360 turn.(smile) Thank you for sharing this with us.

[TheReliquary]

We do pay high income tax in Sweden, and I (like most expats) used to moan about it until:

a) I had to go to hospital myself

b) My father-in-law needed residential care

c) My wife had a baby

In the UK, you simply can't buy the quality of care Swedes take for granted.

Sweden really values children. No law is passed without first considering its impact on children.

Also, I think Swedes are pretty clever. They spend money on schools while the UK spends it on prisons...

[digimastr101]

This makes me wonder what is the % of people in prison in Sweden vs the UK? If it is less( Like I think it is)then there has to be something to the way Sweden is dealing with children.

[TheReliquary]

The International Centre for Prison Studies has a list of how many prisoners there are per 100,000 inhabitants in each country so it's good for comparative purposes. Google it if you like, but here are some notables: USA: 751 Russian Fed: 625 Israel: 305 Iran: 222 England & Wales: 149 Canada: 108 Sweden: 79 Norway: 75 Finland: 68 Denmark: 67 Below that, it can be a sign that countries don't really have a functioning legal system! Criminals almost always cite their childhood...

[digimastr101]

WOW!!!!! I am shocked! Does this mean Norway,Denmark, and Finland have the same philosophy in childrearing? As for the legal system, you might be right. But I have to wonder how many people live in each country. The USA has more but we might have more people living here than other countries listed. Just a thought.

[TheReliquary]

Well these figures are per head of population. Of course, different countries have more imaginative solutions than jail. I also know that in the UK, too many prisoners should be in psychiatric care but the state doesn't provide the places.

Yes, I would say that Scandanavians in general share similar assumptions about child rearing & education. They differ somewhat at teenage years - Finland has had amazing success with its secondary schools in the past decade - but that's another story!

[digimastr101]

I feel that Phil Grierson is wrong on a certain level. This would work if both the UK and the USA would put families first. I agree that putting forth one part of what the Sweds and Finns do would not work. But looking at the whole picture and transitioning to what they do would be better.

[TheReliquary]

Dead right!

[isabella2215]

The UK mostly sucks in its attitudes and ideas about children. My neighbours preferred dogs to kids. Children should be "seen and not heard".

Dress the baby girls in pink so they know early on what society expects of them. Stick them in front of the TV to shut them up. After all, that's what they'll mostly be doing when they grow up. Kids must not play outside. They might scratch themselves, catch cold, get kidnapped or kick a ball into the flowers. That sums up Britain's attitude to kids.

[ThePolka]

The Revolution In Education is here.

Go to The Revolution In Education on YouTube.

[elisqld]

They know how to treat children (and teachers) in Sweden. I think one difference is the lack of a "litigation culture" which is destroying UK and US schools. I remember reading about a teacher being sued for saying Santa wasn't real & God help the PE teacher if little John twists his ankle...

Re: ThePolka

I checked out your vid. It's sort of interesting but is he proposing anything that doesn't already exist in Montessori schools? Also the links don't work, and that's rather frustrating...

[ThePolka]

Firstly, I just tried the links and they all seem to work properly. Where are you located, Isabella, although that shouldn't matter on the World Wide Web, links are links.

Next, I think his system differs from Montessori in the fact that his system is both national and International. In other words, state and central governments must set up curriculum based upon job skills.

[randolphtd1]

I wish I'd been born in Sweden :(

I dropped out of US high school, because they wouldn't let me advance at my own pace. They punished me because I wanted to learn things that were "too advanced." What's that say about the US?

[hellatube]

everyone should watch these videos and compare their scholastic upbringing with the swedish way. i know for sure in canada we do a lot of things very similar to the english system.