John Piper Promo 2 - "View of the Health/Wealth Gospel"

[yamnema]

what a self-righteous man. i hate his beliefs too, they lead to death.

[xTHExELEVENTHxHOURx]

@yamnema

Lol! Self-righteous?

[Rylucero]

The Word Faith Movement has the wrong view of God as it places trust in metaphysics as opposed to trust in God. It relies on a Universal Faith-Force that is in obedience to certain cosmic laws that God also must obey. God becomes something that can be manipulated through Positive Affirmation. Word Faith techniques such as Positive Confession and faith are not one in the same as it promotes ones own selfish desires.

[planes3333]

@Rylucero

dude for sure!!!!!!!

[Rylucero]

The belief that one is able to wield a metaphysical force with infinite potential is not only an attempt to deny reality but an attempt to alter reality itself through the use of cosmic incantation.

[kingdomswagg7]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PROSPERITY GOSPEL TEACHER! These people do not understand that God is a FATHER and He wants the best for his children! I have two children and i desire to send them to the best schools,have the best health care,and live and play in the best environments.....is that a bad thing? Now imagine God, being God and not wanting the best for His Children!!! That does not make any sense.

[jacobsnodgrass13]

you are making a mistake here... God's aim for your life is not the best things. His singular aim is that you might know more of him and enjoy him. Him alone... often times that means that he will remove everything for a time to break 'the schemes of earthly joy that you may seek your all in Him." What is best for his kids isn't more stuff... it is the Father.

[kingdomswagg7]

When you have God and him alone, you are in covenant with God. Do you understand what a covenant is? When people get married, they enter into covenant. All assets,debts,everything is equally owned. God owns only the best, check out his dwelling.....streets of GOLD, gates of PEARL.......catch my drift? Let's allow GOD to have the final say so and not JOHN PIPER, MARTIN LUTHER, or JOHN CALVIN!

[jwuonog]

God IS the best thing for you.

Not good schools. Not health. Not money. Not food.

Sure, those things are all good. But ultimately, God is THE BEST THING for us. That is why Paul can count all things as loss compared to knowing Christ. It is why suffering children in third world countries can have hope. The hope of the glory of Christ in us, and being with Him for eternity. NOT money and shelter and food.

[kingdomswagg7]

yeah, and when you have God, you make a covenant with God. Do you know what a covenant is? I will give you an example, a marrige. When you get married, whatever your spouse has is yours and vise versa! God lives in a place were the streets are gold and the gates are made of pearl. If God has the best we should have the best! Get real and read the bible and stop lettin' John piper be your GOD!

[jwuonog]

I think you are misunderstanding what the prosperity gospel is. All those things you said are good and true. We are coheirs with Christ, and will inherit everything.

That's NOT the prosperity gospel. The prosperity gospel is that if you believe in God, He will promise you money, health, and earthly riches.

You can't preach that false promise to starving Africans.

I think we're on the same page here...just making sure we are also on the same page on what the prosperity gospel is...

[kingdomswagg7]

I have told you before and i am telling you again, there is no such thing as a prosperity Gospel! Also, the starving africans need to be taught the Gospel of the Kingdom. This is the only message Christ taught and the only messege that the diciples taught. When you understand the gospel of the Kingdom, you will see that you will have no other choice but to prosper financially,mentally, spiritually,socially, and physically(the whole man).

[jwuonog]

So you're telling me that when you believe, you will never get disease, you will always have delicious food, your pockets will be overflowing with money, you'll get promoted at your job, you will never feel sad, and you'll have the best car and best house?

Well, sign me up. Tell me how to get all these good things.

[kingdomswagg7]

you are trying to be funny. The promises of God are only obtained by faith. Sad to say, most believers don't even know how faith works according to Mark 11:24. Faith is a process that has to be exercised! Can you tell me how faith works?

[jwuonog]

Mark 11:24 does not make God a genie who gives you anything you want. Jesus prayed: not my will but yours. It is ultimately up to the will of God and His good pleasure what is answered in prayer.

Romans 8:28 promises that all good things will work for those who love God. That doesn't mean good in our eyes, it means good in God's eyes. And Christ is objectively good for us. Romans 8:32 says that Christ is the best thing for us.

[kingdomswagg7]

I did not ask you any of that. I asked you to explain to me how faith works!

[Jovarn]

exactly ! well said

[jacobsnodgrass13]

so paul wasn't really in then right? what about peter (he should be pretty mad about that upside down cross thing)? Why did Jesus tell the disciples that if they followed him they would have no place to lay their heads? You are right when you say the whole man is saved or redeemed! SO true but the problem is that it is redeemed in such a way that God gets the glory...

[krnbeasty]

I think you are taking out of context what the covenant really is. The NT covenant is clearly defined in Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 32 as a spiritual cleansing. Moreover, just because the Church is called the bride does not mean everything Christ has is our's. Back then, the husband still completely dominated the couple and the wife was only an attachment to the husband's life. Please interpret the Bible in its historical context.

[krnbeasty]

We are called princes and princesses, not kings because that that title is for Jesus alone. Therefore as princes, we may enjoy some of the benefits of the king's realm, but it is not our's to share with the king. We only receive what the king freely decides to give to us. Sometimes it may be nothing (while we are on earth) because God may want us to suffer for God's name to be somehow glorified.

[krnbeasty]

Your idea that God providing for you whatever you want was never preached until 50 years ago. So I guess since all those pastors, teachers, and theologians for the past 2000 years never preached the Gospel like you did (the PROSPERITY way), they must have been wrong this whole time and you and your prosperity buddies discovered what the Bible truly meant. That's what I call arrogance. If you think your interpretation is better than 2000 years of historical interpretation, think again.

[ihaveaverybadcold]

then if it isnt why did you make such a comment as "Piper does not hate the prosperity gospel. He will not turn down any prosperity. "

[thek1ller1sme]

John Piper has the potential to be a millionaire, but chooses to make nothing off his book and almost nothing from his preaching ministry. If i understand correctly, he lives in a not so well off neighborhood and lives of very modest means, giving the majority of his would be millions to ministry.

[justin3905]

you are oviously missing the point being prosperous and having nice things isnt a bad or sinful thing, the prosperity gospel is saying come to Christ He will provide you with health wealth and prosperity and that is not the gospel message, and that is a heretical teaching that needs to be addressed cause its leading thousands of people stright to hell, turning a God centered gospel into a man centered Gospel

[danceforbaumer]

Actually he does. He does not take a dime for any of his books, and his salary from Bethlehem Baptist Church is capped (by himself), and has been for years. He's the real deal.

[keyhom]

He seems to be misquoted hebrews. hebrews says that he that cometh to God must believe that he is and he is a rewarder not the reward. The scriptures is talking about an aspect of the Lords character. When the lord told abraham he was his reward, abraham asked him what shall i have. When perter said we have left all he asked what shall we have, the Lord said a hundred fold houses lands mother father sister brother etc.

[cdevidal]

Did he say he hated /prosperity/ or the /prosperity gospel/?

[nampiimadana]

He is preaching true prosperity found in the person of Jesus Christ that is not found in material blessing, worldly health, or "safety" conditioned by certain circumstances. He is speaking of the bliss living no matter what may happen for His glory and feeling that satisfaction. Living in Africa I find that this is where true life begins. It is my mommy Robinah waking up 5am in the morning even when sick with malaria again just to be with Jesus. She has abundant life because of His presence

[q12tube]

How beautifully you describe christian prosperity. You truly have the holy spirit in you. May god bless you.

[ilikacoffee]

Were His closest disciples blessed beyond measure to have died like he did? YES YES YES. They gave of themselves completely, following His lead. "A student is not above his teacher" as He magnificently pointed out early on, and so they drank the cup he drank from (for the JOY set before them ... oh and it wasn't a Porsche)

[heartyfeast]

I don't agree with everything Piper says, but he sure hits the nail on the head with this one! Keep it up, bro John!

[mack133]

yeah you should but that is not the Gospel not is it everlasting life.

[jplcooper]

Ok, now is it the prosperity doctrine or the prostitution doctrine?? give God your money and tell him (oh sorry) "claim it" what you want. isn't that what you do with a prostitute. I serve a risen King because he's my savior & King. He took my place on the cross, he bore my sins, and now he claims me as his child. If he never blesses me again, I'm ok with that. I think he's done plenty!

[fourpointer]

OK, so if you don't get healed from your sickness, your faith isn't strong enough, right? Well, since Ken Hagin (the godfather of WOF) is dead, does that mean HIS faith wasn't strong enough?

[MurrayMD]

If it wasn't for their health and prosperity people like Piper wouldn't even be in a position to speak negatively about it to others. The hypocrisy of this is so obvious, especially to those who have ever been in need of health and prosperity and got it by following the teachings of the Bible.

[ohyeah8787]

Actually you took that verse out of context. What the apostle John (not God) was doing was praying a blessing of health on his fellow believers. We are not told if this prayer was answered. It may have been that the fellow believers endured much suffering till they died, but it wouldn't matter, because our health and wealth is found in heaven. 2 Cor 4:17,18

[jeneralputnam1]

Just curious.....how do you know when to interpret scripture as from a human author (Apostle John) or God [pertaining to 3 John 2]? just want to know your thoughts!

[fiftyninecase]

Murray it isn't just the prosperity doctrine. Copeland bragged that he could've "defeated the devil in his own domain." If only Ken had the same knowledge that Jesus had. I've got the audio on this so don't tell me Ken didn't say it! Wake up Murr!

[MurrayMD]

3 John 1:2 "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." This IS the Word of God and it says God wants us to prosper and be in health. Christians who speak negatively about health and prosperity are being disobedient to the Word of God and will reap the fruits of it.

[christopherasaurus]

The point people are making about prosperity gospel is that people are coming to God see what God can give them. Remember when the multitudes were following Jesus and he turned around and told them that if anyone wants to be his disciple he has to pick up his cross daily.

Nothing wrong with blessing, take job for example.

There is something wrong treating God a blessing vending machine

"seek FIRST the kingdom of God and his righteousness and these things will be added unto you"

[keyhom]

called called Abraham told him toleav his country and God would bless him, god is a god who love to bless his people that's how he is, to say otherwise is tolie about Gods character,

[MurrayMD]

Too bad he hates the health, wealth and prosperity gospel. How much of the rest of the Word of God do he and his followers hate?

[hattyfiesta]

Problem is, the health wealth and prosperity gospel ISNT the Word of God. Read it simply and that is clear to see. Christ never promised material wealth, only a satisfying and sufficient presence through every trial.

[DuFlux]

AMEN Hattyfiesta!

As a former victem of the heresy known as "Word of Faith" or "Prosperity Gospel" I can tell you from FIRST hand experience... the only people getting "prosperous" are the wolves in sheeps clothing at the false preacher pulpits fleecing the poor unwhiting sheep...

[scottidee]

Jesus and His followers' owned LITTLE and NEVER perused HEALTH and WEALTH so quite apparently John P is preaching the original apostolic Gospel - - Yo (-:

[ReformedLou]

Amen. Christ is greater riches than anything, or anyone, this world can offer. Preach it, Pastor John!