Missionary #1 - Watchtower Comments

[lelameolamimamen]

What do they preach if they changed the Bible, turn the Scripture upside down, denied the Gospel?

[Asoldier1844]

More contradictions?? Sure enough. Only a lier contradicts itself. "open your eyes witness!!"

[cosmo7652002]

I know memebers of the anointed that would agree with everything this man is saying ( In fact most of them do ) the only thing they woild disagree on is leaveing the organization. And everone of them with just as much spirit as the members of the WTBS. So, next time you make an unkind remark about this man, let It be known that he's not the only one that fells this way. And before you do make a remark, I'm talking about overseers and elder here.

[TheElmaspelon]

All the experiences you hear at the assembly all all bs

[TheElmaspelon]

that diploma they get is good for paper toylet

[kyralyz]

(Jude 22-23) . . .Also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save [them] by snatching [them] out of the fire. . .

[TheElmaspelon]

Most of the missionaries go to other countries to escapes from responsibilities and adventures, but if there is persecution, they are the first to escape because they are liars and bad bones

[BlueRosa7]

The elders should have caught you at the door and never sent you to Gilead. But you should be in fear. Fearful expectation of Judgement from the live God, Jehovah. Just go back and crawl under the rock you came out of and wait for your destruction or REPENT.

Hebrews 10:26-28

[BlueRosa7]

Jealous peagans.....

[Natashaaaaaaaa]

Why do they destroy the files?

[Templehatchet]

Why are student files destroyed at the end of class?

[BlueRosa7]

@Templehatchet why would you need them. What if others try to infultrate the society then take our precious teaching ways and organization with them then twist the heck out of it on YOUTUBE. "beware the wolf in sheeps clothing." You think we are puppets. Jehovah watches over everything with a careful eye. If you think you have the Spirit you don't need those papers, just rely on the "Holy Spirit from God"

[Templehatchet]

@BlueRosa7 How can a religion so twisted be twisted any more?

[dawnmcneil1]

These are exactly the issues I have had problems with, the supposed second fulfillment of prophecies and the fact that the whole faithful and discreet slave aren't truly giving us our food at the proper time.

I remember when I was like 19 being at the bookstudy and whispering to my mom...."so this prophecy has already been fulfilled!? ...and paradise is the second fulfillment??" haha, i was so disappointed.

[wizzy812]

Think about what the first century christians were saying. They must have been saying things like: "The lord will return before John passes" Replace John with 1975. what have you got? "the lord will return before 1975 passes.

[happylada]

The difference is that the apostles weren't saying it. The church leadership wasn't going around telling people "this is it" Not all said it. It may have come up in a conversation over dinner. Not as the main issue at leadership.

Did you see "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30". Why did the JW numbers drop so radically in 76 and 77? Did they get raptured or were they disillusioned after yet another prophesy failed?

[wizzy812]

How do you know the Apostles weren't saying it? I think they were. Peter said that the end of all things was near. (1Peter 4:7 I think)

[happylada]

If it was part of the church policy and teaching, it would have been referred to somewhere. While you're certainly welcome to your opinion - like bellybuttons, everyone has one.

But don't confuse your opinion with fact or truth.

[poconoporker]

JW's now 'allow' blood fractions when they 'banned' it some time ago killing hundreds and maybe thousands. They corrected that 'mistake'. Praise Jah!!

[happylada]

And all the fractions add up to whole blood? Give ma a break. They allow kidney transplants that are full of whole blood?

When MEN attempt to speak as God in violation of Gods specific instruction, all kinds of wierdness happens. Catholic Popes or Governing bodies - it always ends up in a organization-centered heresy

Such errors spoken in the name of the Lord are false prophesies, and you are not to pay attention to a false prophet!!!. Blood is just one of hundreds of such teachings.

[grvc44]

JW'S are not celebrating cristmas anymore,they correct thier teaching ..i do believe in jehovahs witneses now, because they admit of some mistakes in the past, how about other religion like catholic opous dei can you say as thier charactirstic!!!

[happylada]

If their teachings were from God, they would not have to be corrected. How many times in the Bible did God "correct" himself? If they had to "correct" that teaching, how many other teachings have to be corrected? When WTS disfellowshipped individuals and promoted divorce among couples involved in oral sex, how could they simply "correct" their teaching 8 years later and leave all the broken homes in place?.

What damage did their "erroneous" teaching do do other couples who were not d'shipped?

[happylada]

What has opous dei (sic) got to do with anything? This sounds like you believe Brown's fiction to be fact; maybe why you now believe in JW's fiction.

WTS was founded on occult pyramidology, spiritist teachings, false prophesy, deliberate twisting of secular history (eg fall of Jerusalem, was 587 not 607) to fit their occult timetable.

Its fortunes have been made on the backs of volunteer (slave) labor while the leadership (Rutherford) lived in a palace and drove 2 Cadillacs.

[grvc44]

it is normal this religion is been criticize because people on this planet has rejected god as the bible said like the prophecy they will question jesus return it is happening now, i can say you belong to the great babylon, are a catholic?

[happylada]

No I'm not a Catholic. The C church is a great recruiting ground for the WTS because Cs don't know the Bible, and cannot see the errors they're being told. Unlike the Biblical injunction to search the scripture to see if this is true, the JWs are forced to take their understanding of the Bible thru WTS, and it is either wrong or corrupt on many issues. If you study the Bible by itself, you'll see

I study the Bible, I study all faiths, I'm not afraid that something I study will corrupt me.

[happylada]

This religion is being criticized because they are false prophets, have twisted the Bible to suit their own ends and attempt to control their followers, rather than having them live in liberty. They rewrote the Bible to suit their own ends (funny, their Kingdom Interlinear doesn't agree with the NWT in many places, and the NWT is wrong each time).

Their books contain deliberate misquotations from scholars - I'm starting a list of such. They are, quite truly, preaching "another Jesus" 2 Cor 11:4

[happylada]

Cont . . .

eg. If you have a copy of the Kingdom Interlinear 1969 look at page 1158 bottom left. They quote Mantley as a source to support John 1:1. Mantley threatened to sue, stating that his textbook on Greek did not support the WTS statement because WTS had wrongly translated it. It is not in any other KIT since.

The book "can you believe in the trinity" contains no bibliography. It contains dozens of misquotes intended to disprove the trinity; contrary to the context of the sources listed.

[dubbeltid]

I know a couple who is preaching in africa right now all day. It is strange how exiles allways seem to give a very negative view while current jw gives very possitive views ?

So what if they did birthdays/christians ? They are evolving like science. They used crosses to. but changed it.

Smoking was allowed untill the 70s i think.

[poconoporker]

dubbeltid.....you're very naive. There's A LOT of things you have no idea about the WTS. Investigate. Isn't what the WT says everyone else to do with their religions? So, why not on the WTS?

[lamesawarm]

this makes me sick to my stomach!! I also started going to the meetings in 1979 when I was 2yrs old. NOW, I've been investigating a lot more and have not gone regularly. My parents are hardcore JW"S preach daily at 5am at the train stops.

[cuttysark9712]

Holy shit! Isn't the narrarator one of the readers from watchtower tapes?

[wizzy812]

Habakuk 2:3 (dead sea scrolls) "This is the exact interpretation: The last days will last longer than what the prophets have said". One example is the 1rst century Inspired christains. They prophesied that the lord would return before JOhn would pass away. John clarified things in 98ce. 2 years later the second century christains were saying that the end would come after 6000 years of mankinds existence. According to their chronology that ended in 215.

[wewedwhen]

JW organization has denounced being prophets. So not sure of your reasoning on this.

[wizzy812]

wewedwhen are you a jw?

[wewedwhen]

I have no t been to meetings in 8 years. But I am a sympathizer with the JW and kinda one of them in an unorthodox way. I left due to a serious wrong that was done to me. But, that was not the WT fault, they denounced such actions.

[wizzy812]

I've only been to a few meetings in the last 15 years. I still beleive very strongly of JW's.

[wewedwhen]

yea I know, I am going to attend the memorial in another area this spring. Wish those people had not done that to me, I would still be there im sure.

[utukkuxul]

I used to sympathize with them. Let me ask you a serious question, I was thinking of making a video about this. If they're not prophets, and they're constantly making mistakes like every other religion, and some of those mistakes have cost thousands of lives... what exactly is Jesus doing to guide them? What are they offering over every other religion? Jesus guides, nay rules invisibly, but just doesn't care who dies from lack of an organ transplant or if the people of Sodom get resurrected?

[georgiahuff]

Quit lying I was at a KH yesterday and they were talking about how they prophesied. You are yet another lying JW.

[maxydog]

show me an article that was written in the JW publication that states that

[happylada]

Can you give me a reference for this - its a long way from any translation of Hab 2:3 that I have ever seen, and my assumption has always been that the Dead Sea Scrolls were almost exactly what our scriptures have taught.

aditional sc

[wizzy812]

I know of a couple anointed brothers that were going around (Pre-1975) admonishing the brothers saying "Do you see anything in the WT that says tehn end is coming in 1975? No!!!" They were trying to quell the excitement.

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzy812

Try to show some reading comprehension. I said that your mention of 1975 as proof of your assertion and proof my point was wrong is moot. I clearly acknowledged to you that only a circumstantial case can be made about 1975. I also agree no one would have been df'd for questioning it. My pointwas related to the Generation Doctrine. That was a specific although constantly changing Doctrine. Contradicting that prophecy would have got you a boot in the ass and out the door and you know it!

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzy

What I said below about Generation s more apropos to your 1st century prophecy. As the idea was based on John's lifespan limiting the timing of the return of Christ. That in no way lines up with the JW assertions about 1975 so bringing 75 up is disingenuous on your part. Try looking at what I said about the more deliberate Generation Doctrine as a comparison about what I said.

[wizzy812]

Frank I'm not saying no one has ever been disfellwoshipped for disagreeing with the WT. It's just over here in the Pacific Nothewest we seem to be more lenient than elsehwere. I've gotten away with so much that everyone everywhere else would have been disfellwoshipped for. I'm very much opposed to ones being DF'd for merely beleiving things differently and I have been working hard to bring an end to this oppression.

[wizzy812]

Hello Frank- I think I have a third grade reading comprensions level. Try to be patient with me. What I now think you are saying is that the Definition of the 1914 generation was always changing and if someone 25 years proposed the present teaching he would have been DF'd. Am I understading you correct? Maybe everywhere else in the world they may have been disfellowshipped for such. Not over here. I've seen so many elders over here (for decades) disagree with the WT right during the WT study!!!

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzy812 Cleverly avoiding the point. The Generation Doctrine was simply, that the Generation of 1914 WOULD NOT pass away before the end. Disputing that would have you DF'ed and you know it. I only added that the doctrine itself changed over time. Adults alive in 1914 who witnessed events, then children, then simply being born and later that were living proximate.

You maybe right about the Northwest. I was in Spanish in BC and the friends knew of NW child molesters who were protected not df'd

[wizzy812]

Denying that the 1914 generation wouldn't pass away may have gotten some disfellowshiped. But I doubt I would have been DF'd. I have told the elders that I beleive the GB is in an apostate condition and they do nothing.

[Frankgerretti]

wizzy812 Why would you care if you are df'd or not? Jesus said rejoice if they throw you out of their synagogues! Matt 5:11, 12 and John 16:11. Should be your objective the way I read it. Why would you support a religion and its body of believers that is being taught (to worship)/ led by false Christ's who you admit are in your view apostates?

Curious Frank

[wizzy812]

Frank I don't care if they DF'd me. I've risked being DF'd numerous times by expressing my views. I've done it quite joyfully. If you want to convince me JW's are not God's people you need to come up with some apostasy worse than Manasah. He burnt his own kid's to a crisp to a false god. And God still forgave him!!! Simple fact is JW's aren't even as close to apostate Isreal and Isreal remained God's chosen people until they killed Jesus.

[Frankgerretti]

wizzy812 With all due respect....In your dreams.

It has been said like this about your false prophet leaders:

"The F&DS can be either a bunch of men making the best cases they can, or they can be directed by god's spirit, but they can't be both. They can't be just men when they screw up but directed by Holy Spirit when they think they've hit a home run."

Being directed by Gods spirit and Inspiration by it is a difference without a distinction...at least in the minds of JW's

[wizzy812]

Frank I would love it if someone would give me a comment on what the Dead Sea Scrolls say regarding Habakuk 2:3. They say "The last days will last longer than what the prophets have said" So far no one is willing to give me a comment. Is the first century inspired christains that prophesied that the Lord would return before John died an example of that?

[Frankgerretti]

wizzy, no comments on your Habakuk question. What i would be interested in is your view on Luke 21:8 as it relates to JW's.

American Standard Version (at one time the official JW bible) puts it this way:

And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [he]; and, The time is at hand: go ye not after them.

One of the Studies in the scriptures was entitled "The Time is at Hand". not an obscure book but was used/important up until the 1930's

[wizzy812]

I don't beleive anyone in the WT organization has ever said that he was Jesus. NOt like Reverend Moony. Or Jim JOnes Or charlse Manson. Jesus would not have created organized religion if he didn't beleive in it. so I support organized religioN. I wished you had a comment on Habakuk. It sure sounds like Habakuk is describing JW's!!!

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzmeister....Again with the classic Cult work around. 1st, the text does not say that these ones would claim to be Jesus....read it again with your 3rd grade level. They would come in Jesus name saying I am "He". Now just how would someone come in Jesus name saying he was Jesus???? All one has to do is look at the JW's FDS doctrine....that's exactly how! Further, the claim of being "Anointed" is using the Greek word "Christ" of which Jesus warned of false ones...! Easy to identify in 21:8

[wizzy812]

Frank Jesus is only the head of the Christ. There is also the body of christ. Since Christ means anointed then would those that belong to the body of Christ be anointed? Or was Jesus warning us against the body of Christ?

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzy. You are being coy. The main point is that THEY say "The due time has approached"! Period! Whomever Jesus spoke about! No group outside of JW's are better known for doing just that right from its begining.

As to your symantics over the word anointed I brought up you miss the point there as well. The emphasis is on the being the "one"! whether that is being singled out, chosen, appointed so as to have some authority apart from what is given through a simple anointing or adoption by spirit.

[wizzy812]

Frank I guess I am a little aloof. I'm not following what you are trying to get at. It just seems to me, in view of bible prophecy, we should expect God's channel of light to flip flop (Daniel 12:3) and to expect the end to be sooner than what God intends. (habakuk 2:3). You guys just convince me all the more that JW's are God's people.

[Frankgerretti]

Wizzy

You convince me that you are made for the Watchtower. All the best!

[wizzy812]

Frank LOL JW's consider me an apostate. There's reason for that.

Todd

[girlznguitarz]

You can only be apostate if you go against God/Jesus, not if you go against earthly men (governing body teachings that are not Biblical).

[happylada]

When did Jesus create an organized religion? The OT was a theocracy (supposedly) but the Old covenant was done away with at the cross (not the torture stake) The nT church was pretty independent. Even the chief apostles didn't agree on everything, and it happened for the furtherance of the Gospel. The rules placed on the NT Gentiles was to avoid fornication, meat offered to Idols and drinking/eating of blood. Where was all the other organization?

[wizzy812]

You mentioned that God created a higly organized religion and called it Isreal. Jesus said that whatever the son beholds the father doing the son does in like manner. Jeus created a highly organized relgion and called it Christainity. He apointed Aposltes that apoointed overssers. They were instructed to keep all the other congregations in touch so that one congregaion can help the other when the others were in need. A very highly organized relgion indeed.

[happylada]

Where was the organization? Israel was a nation under God, we are now Christians AMONG the nations. The Holy Spirit (God) distributed gifts of administration and miracles mixed together into the church, but not an organization. Peter and Paul had major disagreements but didn't get d'fshd. Every one was free to hear from God for himself, the only compulsion was the three donts. No legalism, rules or inquisitions. Major unrepentant lifestyle DID evoke a censure, but not questioning the leadership.

[wizzy812]

You can't see that Isreal with all it's priest and it's temple was a relgion that is now called Judaism?

[happylada]

Of course, but it a religious nation. No nation, no religion as per. All over the known world the expat jews set up synagogues - THAT is the religion minus the nation. Today we have synagogues all over the world, and that's again the religion without the nation.

The Temple, the priests, the sacrifices were all connected to the Nation - and most of the Levitical laws were ceremonial NATIONAL laws.

You cannot compare the two. JWs attempt to enforce the laws without being a theocratic nation.

[happylada]

urious how you knew they were annointed? Since there were only 144000 supposedly anointed, and that the early church filled up most of this - eg there were 850,000 killed by Diocletian alone), there must be some way to tell. Halos? Glossilalia? Raising the dead?

Please enlighten me!!

[wizzy812]

Frank see the 1955 question from readers page 94. It makes it quite clear that we cannot expect the New system come in 1976. Nevertheless people went beyond what was written and said otherwise. But no one would have been DF'd for saying the end would come then!!!

[wizzy812]

Does anyone know how many people apply to get into Gilead and how many get accepted anually?

[napsuta]

Compare and contrast the WBTS teaching in 1919 and 2008.

Today if Jesus believed what they say He beleaved and approved of then He would be disfellowshipped!!!

No I am wrong.

Correction the WBTS would be disfellowshipped.

[wizzy812]

napsuta the light keeps getting brighter. Look at the crazy teachings of the 1rst century Christains.!!!

[napsuta]

wizzy812

I am sorry I dont understand what you are getting at please explain.

[wizzy812]

The 1st century inspired christains crazy things like the Lord would return before 1975 passes.lol

[wizzy812]

I meant John. They were prophesying for 60 some years that John would not pass before Jesus returned. (John 21:20-22)Honest mistake!!! I was thinking about how the 1rst Century Christains were just like JW's in that they were making "false Prophesies". People just read more into what the Lord says. If the first century INSPIRED christains did then so too you should expect christains to do so today. But the light gets brighter!!!

[Frankgerretti]

wizzy812....

First off, all those in Christ are anointed, read your bible.

False prophecy in the 1st Century? Nice try, Admittedly this was a missunderstanding of some acknowledged by the writer of John's gospel however with this notable distinction. It was not an official teaching of the apostles that appears anywhere in the books and letters associated with the early church. More importantly it was not a required belief that was forced on a membership under threat of expulsion. Capeche?

[wizzy812]

I've always beleived all those in Christ are anointed. Plus it probably was the apostles that started the rumor that John would never die. Where do you think it got started? Even then all the christain back then had the miraculous gifts of the holy spirit. Yet they still came up with ideas way out there. The WT never said that the end would come in 1975. They outright said that bible chronology was ever changing. Yet just as first century christains read more into Jesus words, so too witnesses.

[Frankgerretti]

Naturally if Jesus was talking to Peter privately any rumor would have had its start from him. But saying the "Apostles" started/promoted it as a required teaching is a stretch. But you step around my point a little. If I disagreed with Peter or someone else repeating the rumor or corrected them from the podium, would I have been tried and excommunicated for it? They relied only on the scriptures that existed as their authority, and only as they related to Jesus and his impalement. 1 Cor 2:2

[Frankgerretti]

The fact that many who claimed to be Christian had way out there ideas and customs that varried widely even though bound in unity by Holy Spirit is probably the most compelling proof that high control and pro-uniformity groups such as JW's are way out of line.

Paul argued that the Christian who observed the Sabbath or other "days" and those who do not are both called by God and should be respected apart from debates. Yet groups like JW's would seek to rid itself of such variety or called ones.

[wizzy812]

Frank you have a very good point. I'm way agianst the WT for DFing people for having ideas way out they. I have been fighting against such for 15 years. They haven't DF'd me yet. Please read my recent comments at the "Jehovah's Witnesses(pt 1)". If you can't find it click on my username and find it on my list of favorites.

[Frankgerretti]

wizzy812 The WT totally promoted 1975 as the end in print and orally from the highest positions. But I will give it to you that it requires building a case. That is a red herring. The Generation doctrine that made definite afirmative statements was an official teaching and shows the shallow nature of your comparison. If anyone disagreed with it or promoted a different understanding of Jesus words they would be kicked out. Same if someone today clung to it now that WT has discarded it.

[wizzy812]

Frank I'm aware that many at the highest levels promoted 1975. Even Ray Franz. But in 1955 when the WT was discussing the possible end coming in 1976 it said that bible chronology was ever changing and no guarantees then end would come then. 12 years later in '67 the District overseer here in teh NW said, "Daon't anyone go saying theend is going to come in '75. Then 7 years later the WT quoted Fred and in a way he said it may not come.

[happylada]

Does being anointed mean you're going to heaven, or are you still going to be here when God toasts it all? ;-)

As far as the miraculous gifts are concerned, when do you think they ended? Have you considered Gregory Thaumaturgus, a disciple of Origin. 297 AD and all the miracles still functioning. Or the Scottish Prophets of AD 1200, again all the miracles functioning. Or ..

God doesn't changed - people do. If the church today were to seek the holiness and God's favor we'd have those miracles.

[happylada]

the light gets dimmer not brighter - the church today cannot say "Take up your Bed and Walk" we are furthur today from the truth than ever. Jesus asked if he would find faith on the earth when he returned. Its getting scarce!!

The NT church never "prophesied" about John - it was a rumor, nothing more. It appears in no other place in church history. Compare that with the WTS and Russell saying the dates cannot be changed because they were God's dates.

It started with false prophesy, and its now.

[wizzy812]

It's a cop out to say that the first century christains didn't foretell that John would never die. Okay have it your way. Jehovah's Witnesses only spread a rumor the end would come in 1975.

[happylada]

Its not a cop out at all. The disciples were having supper and after, Jesus and Peter had a chat. There were others at the table. What was overheard was NOT prophesy, it was a discussion with a point. It WASN'T an official position of the church and didn't appear in any (other) official documents or writings.

Compare 1887, 1914, 1915, 1925, etc ad nauseum. All OFFICIAL published dates, the Words of God from the faithful slave. 1975 was pushed by many of the top brass, and in writing, just so.

[wizzy812]

After Jesus was resurected he told the Apostles what was going to happen to them. They then asked what was going to happen to John. Jeus said :"if it my will for him to remain what concern is it to you/" So the first century inspired christains went around prophesying that John would not die before the Lord's return. They cliamed divine inspiration. The Watchtower never claimed such. The watcthower's words came true 100%. They said that they were infallible and everything they said could change.

[happylada]

Hate to be a nitpicker, but Peter was the only one involved. None of the others were involved.

Again, they did not prophesy such, it was never mentioned in any other writings. Prophesying is giving forth the revelation given by God - there was no such revelation here. They claimed no such inspiration for this other than the accurate recording of it.

Many leaders did teach 1975, and the GB DOES claim to be the word of God - infallable.

[Jenvy7]

wow.great! this is it! how can i attend in there?

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Wiz:I was kind of surprised that Lance was unaware that the majority of the publications were written by the other sheep.

I hadn't fully understood the "other sheep" were doing most of the writing. But I know the GB has final say on practically every detail, even artwork. At least that is what they show in their organization video. It's creepy looking at them going over their magical Watchtower magazine. They are clever publishers for sure. Too bad 90% of their teachings are wrong now!

[wizzy812]

I'll admit I was stunned by something 15 years ago. 15 yeaars ago God's spirit bore witness with my spirit that I was one of the anointed faithful and discreet slave. Since I was always taught that the slave class was directing things I realized I had work to do and began writing letters to the WT with my ideas. I was stunned when within in a couple of weeks I started getting letters from the WT accusing me of an apostate course. They are liars aren't they...

[wizzy812]

... I was stunned to learn that they don't give a rip what the faithful slave class has to say. Instead when we try to do our job they threaten us with apostasy charges. A few years ago I think the elders wanted to serve me with a judical hearing for apostasy. I showed up with a video camara. so they just told me to leave. I refused and they had me arrested. I didn't get disfellwoshipped they. I have it on DVD. The arrest and everything.

Todd

[RUREELYDATZMART]

The VINEYARD WORKERS parable is your ticket! The WTS thinks they are the 11th hour workers and Christendom the 1st-hour workers. But the 1st-hour workes get the penny too! Plus who are the 3rd, 6th and 9th-hour workers? This simply means that when the 3rd-hour workers appear at 21 years there is a second class in the organization, which was 1935! 1914+21=1935. But in the end ALL get invited to heaven. The 1st-hour workers murmur over this. They don't like it. ROFL! Thanks for sharing this.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Interesting.Anyway, that's good news. If you still think you are of the anointed then you are sealed into the kingdom which is great. The sealing ended May 2008.You'll joint Christ and the other king-priests when the millennium begins. Great.Anyway,the GB/MOL has to be identified/disfellowshipped before second coming, thus before 1993 passover. So they are OUT and in spiritual darkness. They are clueless who the 6th 9th, 3rd 1st or 11th hour workers represent!! Obviously. They are winging it.

[wizzy812]

What does MOL stand for? allegorically I see that the GB and the WT are symbolized by Pharoah's cheif of the cupbearers and cheif of the bakers. The baker (the legal corporation WTBTS) will be detroyed at Pharoah's birthday which is obviously the great fear inspiring day for those that don't have his mercy and a day of rejoicing for those that have his mery such as the cupbearer.(the GB). They will both be thrown in prison for sinning against Pharoah.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

2 Thess 2:4 MOL=man of lawlessness is apostate Governing Body that rises up in God's house making itself a god above other "godlike" glorious ones, meaning the other anointed. GB was disfellowshipped November 10, 1992, but individual members could repent.

[happylada]

This isn't scriptural at all - the Gospel is good news, not uncertain news. Acts 22:14 is an example. I Cor 3:16, 2Cor 5:1, Ga 3:7, Eph 1:18, Phil 1:19, 2 Tim 1:12, I Jn 2:5, 1 Jn 3:14, etc.

Jn 3:14 - we KNOW we have passed from death to life. What is it about working for your salvation rather than being saved by faith that creates such uncertainty.

The message of the NT is one of certainty, not ambiguity. Its the difference between sonship and applying for a job.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Wow! You probably ARE of the anointed!! You see the workers in the vineyard work for 11 hours. A half-hour is 3.5 years so an hour is 7 years=77 yrs from 1914 to 1991. When Christ arrives he gives ALL the workers the "penny" which is a surprise to the 1st-hour workers. Meaning the other sheep would be invited into the kingdom after 1991 forward, from first to last. So the call was probably REAL! I was anointed in 1992! See? the MOL does not respect the "godly" ones.

[wizzy812]

I was wondering if you were anointed. I wanted to ask you but then I decided to just mention that I was and see if you volunteered it. These things you say are interseting. My friend John who has been anointed for 40 years now has been trying to explain the cultivators to me.

Todd

[ExGileadMissionary]

FYI, Not everyone approving the pics in the organization video was GB... some were of the other sheep too....

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Thanks. I based that on their "organization" video where it showed the GB reviewing photos in an upcoming Watchtower. I understand that the OS prepared most of the information anyway. GB would have been synonymous with "anointed only" but could include OS elders now. I have no idea. Thanks!!

[wizzy812]

I have a friend at Bethel. Tom Norvel. I remember about 20 years ago him speaking about attending a plenary session of the GB. I don't know what he was doing there.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

2 places. 2 Thess 2:4 where the "man of lawlessness" rises up in the temple of "The God" meaning God's own official temple organization, JWs. Also in Revelation where the lamb-dragon/false prophet is seen coming out of the EARTH. The EARTH is associated with God's organization, the SEA is associated with Christendom. Thus the 666-trinity-beast is seen coming out of the SEA. So those two references tell us the GB would become apostate, in God's own organization.

[wizzy812]

I've noticed that you at present have viewed 666 videos. I think it is funny since you happen to be talking about 666.

I was kind of surprised that Lance was unaware that the majority of the publications were written by the other sheep. I knew that 25 years ago when I was 20 years old. Even the WT publications say that majority of the publications are written by the other sheep. It goes to show even pioneers are all that versed on what we teach.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Thanks. I took a screen shot so I'll have it. Just in passing I've also have been thinking that 666 becomes 2/3rds in relation to 100%, in this case 1000. Zech 13:8 mentions 2/3rds of the Jews would be killed and one third saved. I've generally felt that only one third would live to enjoy the millennium with one third killed at Armageddon and one third dying out of old age though surviving. One third would be chosen to enjoy the millennium beyond their normal lifespan.

[RUREELYDATZMART]

Nice experience. Thanks for sharing. But just because JWs are wrong about many things does not mean the Bible is not true and many things in it are being fulfilled, including the fact that GB of JW would become apostate.

[wizzy812]

Where do you see it in the bible that the GB would become apostate? I kind of see it too.

[happylada]

Why would the Bible say ANYTHING about the JW's and/or their GB? The ASSUMPTION you make here is that the WTS is actually a legitimate representative of God on the earth, which it is not. In spite of your belief, the WTS is just one of thousands of false cults that have come and gone since the time of Christ; simply a resurection and amplification of the Arian heresy of the third century.

[ah0386]

Well produced, tought out and executed!!!

Amazing how a Proverbs 4:18 can be so twisted.

Hey, Guess we were wrong abaout 1975, now that jehovah has now given us a flicker of new LIGHT, we should stay the course, no matter what the next lie, or OOPS, new light that might come about in the future.

[ralema567]

Great video, the Jw theology is not as solid as they would like it to be. Anyone actually checking out what they are teaching will find that there is alot of deception and ever changing truths. Whenever I prove this to an active jw, the response is always "the light is getting brighter, and we are the only ones not participating in war, pagan celebrations ect". So they will excuse their own history even though it's more like a crime scene. My family is still trapped in all of this :(

[kathetos1]

another great video...

so basiclly 140 or so people from the 2003 school of gilead read the bible twice in 8 months but only the great Lance saw the light and understood that the JW teaching didnt make sense?

what about the other 139?? were the wearing sun glasses?

that doesent make that sense "active" JW member does it...

[ExGileadMissionary]

I never said I was "great", kind sir. And the number was about 50 in my class. I am not in touch with the rest of the students, but I know several left their missionary assignments, but I am not aware of their circumstances. I am not sure what you are trying to say with your comment.

-The "great" Lance

[MrKattt]

When JWs see something that comes against their beliefs (with proof backing it), their brain becomes numb and the only thing that jumps into their minds is "Must justify the Watchtower, must justify the Watchtower"

[ExGileadMissionary]

Yep. Problem is: Watchtower = Jehovah.

As in, "I've decided to leave Jehovah's Winesses".

JW response: "You're leaving Jehovah?"

[MrKattt]

Sad

[wizzy812]

I suppose the WT thinks they are the anitypical Moses. since Gaod told Moses that he would be Jehovah they consider themselves to be Jehovah. Kind of like the Angel in the burning bush told Moses that his name was Jehovah.

I haven't heard your video yet. I'm at starbucks and the music here is too looud for me to listen.

todd

[mitchkramah]

true, but more often then not its more like (and if i may quote biff tanner) make like a tree... and get out of here!

[ah0386]

Again, another weak rebutle from JW who doesn't even want to face the facts. Despite the overwhelming evidence and widely available references to confirm WTBTS history, it's quickly labled as "apostate"..

[myxmtrpls]

Excellent work V, always done with dignity and class.

[21crosscheck21]

Thanks for another great video.

[Rwssel]

Bravo!

[wd4awo]

GREAT INTERVIEW!!!

[Shazoolo]

Very interesting and informative vid. Thanks.

[jgc04]

This is the best one yet. Thanks Lance for speaking about this!

[exjw44288]

Another great video, V.  Thanks to you and to Lance for putting himself out there.

[icandynetwork]

Dude, your videos rock. The only thing is having to wait so long between videos. Thanks for all of your hard work... we all appreciate the time and effort you take.

[rachelbinto]

Keep the videos coming. Can't wait for part II.

[Eliveleth]

Lance and V,

Great video. I know that it will be informative to Jehovah's Witnesses and to those who they contact.

Velta

[ExGileadMissionary]

If anyone (JW or not) has any questions about my stay in Gilead, you can send messages to ExGileadMissionary, my YouTube name.

Thanks for the vid, V.

Lance