Christians lend me your ears! We all know that a global preaching work must take place in these last days. Tell me please, if the Jehovahs are so wrong and are the apostate, who is God using to do the global preaching work? If I were God and wanted to get a message to the world I certainly know whom I would use... the Jehovahs!!!!! I read all these anti JW comments on utube yet when it comes down to actually doing anything only they step up to the task everyone else is all show & no go!
Sadly 21crosscheck21 is just another inept hate preacher. All you genuine Christians out there need to boycott this individual. Our Lord Jesus would not preach hatred about anybody, but would preach the Bibles message and let people see the fruitage of true christians for themselves, this individual by his actions and words is not a footstep follower of our Lord but a hate preacher, I'm sure we can agree we don't need anymore of them!
@21crosscheck21 Revelation 12:7-9 Michael and his angels battled with Satan and his angels and hurled them to earth. Revelation 20:1-he has key of abyss. Daniel 10:13,21-Michael is one of the foremost princes,vs.21 Michael is prince of YOU people12:1-great prince (Isaiah 9:6-Jesus is Prince of Peace). Jude 9-Michael is archangel.Hebrews 1:4-He has become better than angels.Michael destroys Satan-Rev.20:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 says it's Jesus Our Lord who destroys the wicked (including Satan).
@21crosscheck21 Anyone who posts copious amounts of negative comments regarding any group is motivated by hate, even though he hides like a wolf under a fleece as a self appointed 'helper of the lost'. Shameful. You Sir, are motivated by hatred. You have been notified of your weakness. I will pray for you.
@grazv6 I made a video called "do I hate Jehovah's witnesses." If you want to know, instead of assume why I make videos you might want to check that out. At least then you can base your assessment of me on something other then an assumption. I do however appreciate the kindness you display in praying for me. Back at ya :')
@21crosscheck21 It simply means that you try to hide your true motives from yourself by 'twisted reasoning'.(Kidding yourself) Part of you knows this, but the other part doesn't want to accept it.
I'm still looking forward to your post,'The things I love about Jehovahs Witnesses.'
I've got the measure of you and you know it.(That means I know what your motives are and what makes you tick.) I'll pray for you tonight.(That means you need all the help you can get!)
@21crosscheck21 It simply means that you try to hide your true motives from yourself by 'twisted reasoning'.(Kidding yourself) Part of you knows this, but the other part doesn't want to accept it.
I'm still looking forward to your post,'The things I love about Jehovahs Witnesses.'
I've got the measure of you and you know it.(That means I know what your motives are and what makes you tick.) I'll pray for you tonight.(That means you need all the help you can get!)
@qvoprimum I think we 'want' to believe JW are a brainwashed people simply to appease our own troubled conscience because we see them doing what we dare not.Preaching publicly about Our Lord Jesus.
Are we not the ones brainwashed by countless negatives against them? Lets face it they are shaming us by their zeal. We are cowards by comparison don't you think?!
k well first off you need to prove your sources instead of hearsay because even in court hersay evidence is non admissable, im dont wont to be rude but yes jesus was micheal before he came to earth jesus was his earthly name he was the only begoten son of god and he was sacrificed on the cross as and his blood was the sacrifice of man so that we can be forgiven of our sins.
Spiritual dumbness has nothing to do with one's IQ. You can be a certified genius yet be dumb as a rock in spiritual matters. "Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality"
You are the STUPIDEST person I have ever heard and DO NOT HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, Only cowards post videos with false information to try and sway public oppinion. JW's will show you what they beleive from a copy of your own bible where as you dont even have scriptures to back your beliefs, even enclopedias say that the doctrins YOU belive in originated from pagans who worshiped MANY Gods.
@wheelgod07 actualy thats not true, they have there own version created by the Watchtower Society called The New Word Translation. This is the only one they are allowed to have.
@wheelgod07 Interesting that you use 'ad hominem' to attack the person rather than say what the 'facts' actually are in your opinion. Attacking the person is not Christian. If JWs show from the Bible what the facts are why haven't you put the 'facts' here instead of being down right antichrist?
@wheelgod07 I have been going to the kingdom off and on all my life. I wanted to get baptized, but i been noticing a lot of thing that trouble me. All the subliminels in the Watchtowers and books. And that pastor Russel was a free mason who have occult origins. If you ask questions you are considered a apostate. I want to do what is right in Gods eyes but i want answers.
@peteduel1 If you want to do whats right you won't find that in the Watchtower. Take some time to read through a good bible without their influence and you will be shocked at what you find.
Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him --- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."
My next question is: would an angel have been a sufficient sacrifice for the sins of man? I do not know the answer to that question, but it is the next research project. My first impresssion is that it would NOT be a sufficient sacrifice.
For God (Jehovah) to come to earth in the flesh and give himself to brutal torture and death so that all men might have everlasting life would be a more than suffiient sacrifice.
Thats why it is so important to God that we believe this and love him for it.
Another question is, did the first century Christians believe that Jesus' body rose from the dead. Apparently, according to JWs, God wanted the Jews to think that Jesus' body was brought back to life. So He sent Michael back to appear with holes in his hands and feet and a wound in his side. Based on this info and what is written in the Gospels and Epistles, is there any indication that the 1st century Christians would have come up with the conclusion that Jesus' body was disintegrated?
The JWs believe that they are like the 1st century Christians. Question is, did the 1st century Christians believe Jesus and Michael were the same? The apostles spread the word and converted people without a written NT. Most of the NT was written as letters to churches already established. Revelations was written very late in the 1st century but was not taught to the apostles by Jesus when he was on earth. Based on the info available at the time, did the apostles teach that Jesus is Michael?
Jw's don't worship Jesus so whether Jesus is Michael or not, it would not affect their relationship with God being that they only worship Jehovah as God. However, for Trinitarians it is quite another matter if Michael is Jesus, since they believe Jesus is God and worship Jesus as God, they would be worshipping not God but an Arc Angel...And what happens when you worship Angels instead of God?
FYI : All Jw's believe Jesus is Michael but if he wasn't it doesnt rock our world!!
@FairNskware Hi Fair.... all jws certainly don't believe Jesus is Micheal. Now they may not tell you this out of fear but I would say about half do not believe it.
Now it should greatly concern if your leaders do not know who Jesus is for the reasons I stated in the video. Can you imagine Jesus appointing as slave people who teach millions lies about who he is? That would be ridiculous.
@21crosscheck21 Hi 21,... Jw's are a unified group, so if a person is against a bible teaching then he is either turning apostate or he doesn't quite understand what he's saying or he is not a Jw, it's that simple. Jw's are honest people. Talk is cheap ...dont kid yourself.
As it stands today, all real Jw's believe Michael is the name Jesus has in heaven BUT IF he wasn't, our faith is not shattered.... So unless a new understanding in scripture surfaces, this IS what we believe and teach.
@FairNskware you wrote "all real Jw's believe Michael is the name Jesus has in heaven BUT IF he wasn't, our faith is not shattered"
WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE THIS IF IT'S NOT ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE? IS IT BECAUSE THE WTBTS HAS CONVINCED YOU OF THIS? WHERE IS THIS IN SCRIPTURE THAT JESUS' NAME IS MICHAEL? PLZ. IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE SO HOW WILL YOU SUPPORT AND TEACH THIS FALSE DOCTRINE.
@21crosscheck21 I have my own unique history with the WT org. I have been studying their history and doctrine to better equip myself when confronted and possibly lead them in the right direction.
Question: Would it be fair to say the JWs believe that Jesus is dead and does not reign in heaven? Michael became Jesus in the flesh and Jesus' body was never resurected. Michael, upon his return to heaven, resumed his postion as an archangel. So there is no more Jesus. Does this sum it up?
@JAT002 Yes..... if their theology and draw a logical conclusion based upon what they teach that would be the result. However most would likely disagree because they have never connected the dots.
There a quote from the WT you can google that claims "the man Jesus is dead and gone forever."
@FairNskware John 20:28 -Jesus is called GOD (NOT A GOD!!!) & accepted it JWS .. Any JEWISH person at that time would consider it blasphemous. so he is God the Son!
Luke 10: 22 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Isn't it interesting the JWs know something only the Father is supposed to know.
If we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior like the bible tells us to, who are we accepting? According to the WTS, Jesus no longer exists. Jesus only lived in the flesh?? Michael resumed his position as an archangel upon his return to heaven. The person of Jesus no longer exists. Who is going to the Father for us? If Michael resumed being an angel, that wouldn't be his job anymore. That is the duty of the Savior, Jesus Christ. But the WTS says he died.
The WT is amazing. It claims that Jesus is Michael....Why does the Bible not say that any where??? The Word of God claims that Jesus is God. Over and over and over and over and over again. The Word of God also makes it perfectly obvious that Jesus is Jehovah.... so is the WT claiming that Jehovah is Michael...BTW --The WT used to claim that the Pope was Michael. Maybe next they will claim that Obama is Michael.....The Truth Never Changes
@dbspooky it do not claim that Jesus is God in the bible Micheal is called Prince of Peace and if you look up Micheal the Arcangel it will say who is like God Arc means Chief or Prince and Angel is a messager of God so if you put that togather it will be that Micheal the Arcangel is a head messenger of God who is like God himself the only being that comes close to be like Jehovah is Jesus Christ himself
@clevelandshero23 Bless your heart...hundreds upon hundreds of verses in most translations and original text do in fact claim Jesus to be God--unlike what WT teaches..They even tried to hide many of those in their NWT........There is no putting together that Michael is Jesus--as the WT used to claim the Michael was the Pope. Maybe they will next claim that Michael is Oboma....twisted logic as used by WT leads so many astray---Please look to Jesus for you salvation--not the WT
@jackiefoster1981 Yes I am sure... Until 1917 they claimed that Jesus was not Michael.. in1917 they claimed that Michael was the Pope.....then they changed again in 1920 when they made the most ridiculous claim anyone has ever heard that Jesus is Michael.......wow......
FYI....they also taught that Jesus is to be worshipped (just like the Word of God teaches ).until 1953 they then declared that he was not to be...
The truth will set you free.......the truth never changes
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call,..." (cont.)
with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16
And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.
More information showing that the name Michael applies to God’s Son is found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
@Jjld1990 I have a hunch that most of those who defend the WT on the internet do not actually go to meetings or door to door. They embrace the doctrine and like to argue but they hypocritically ignore some basic commands of the WT. But the one who write emails or call. I have little doubt that they are truly jws. Some have sincere questions, some are confused about how to leave with dignity and others are concerned about family members etc...
@21crosscheck21 You seem to have a lot of HUNCHES. You dont seem to have many FACTS. Here is a fact you can rely on. I OWN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR HATE VIDEOS THAT I GO TO. this will soon include this one and any and every other that I might happen upon. All of your little Hate Mongers that used to "Hangout" at each one and sharpen their knives..HAS LEFT. spooky, posttrib, joeychick, mosher, jessup, You are just like Paul, All have turned away from you!.
@21crosscheck21 You seem to have a lot of HUNCHES. You dont seem to have many FACTS. Here is a fact you can rely on. I OWN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR HATE VIDEOS THAT I GO TO. this will soon include this one and any and every other that I might happen upon. All of your little Hate Mongers that used to "Hangout" at each one and sharpen their knives..HAS LEFT. spooky, posttrib, joeychick, mosher, jessup, You are just like Paul, All have turned away from you!.
@HolyRollerSpirit1 Your free to speak your mind here like everybody else but if your intention is to harass people, insult them and chase them away I'll block you. So the next time I see you insult someone or bother them you're blocked.....
@21crosscheck21 Do you actually think what you keep saying is not insulting? Do you think these Hate Videos are an Hassassment to the Jehova witnesses? I dont chase anybody away by harassment, I use the TRUTH. You should try it. I have asked you to "debate" me several times and each time you refuse. I have asked you over and over why do you pick on the Witnesses? What have they done to deserve you and your attacks? You wont respond. I make a little announcement and you respond within 5 min??
@HolyRollerSpirit1 You have made likely a 100 comments since my last post to you... letting you know what the rules are... people are complaining about you. If you have points to make.... make them. If you want to call people "haters" and insult,,,, sorry you're gone... those are the rules. Take it or leave it.
@21crosscheck21 Okee Dookee, I will be at least as nice as you. I will try and be more passive agressive like you, also. This is my last post to you until you wish to engage. Remember, Jesus sees you. He will be judging you at a later date...be prepared. Try and remembre this, as well, no matter how nicely you say something mean, its still mean. No matter how pleasant you are when demeaning someone, your disdain still shines thru.
I know you see me and my words..I will obey the rules, same msg.
@21crosscheck21 I invite you to look at my latest posts on the not so Devastating Verse for JW'w site. I would enjoy your retort. If you have the time. In fact, I invite all "JW's" and Non-Denoms to respond to my reasoning. If you dont want to respond you dont have to. You can read it, not read it or not read it and say you did or read it and say you didnt. It might make you think or it might make you laugh. Is it OK to call you people BAC's or ND's? I think it is fair, dont you?
@21crosscheck21 Well, the ones I talk to @ my house are pretty adamant. They probably don't have to defend the notion as much as those on the net do. Those on the net probably have seen how indefensible the doctrine is, so they have to take a kind of middle ground on it. They think that because they aren't saying "Well, I don't think he's Michael," they're still in the WT's graces, but I'd like to see them say that at their KHs. Doubt is disagreement, and the WT is not to be disagreed with.
"You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."-Simon Peter-Mtthew 16:16.
"You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.-Jesus-Matthew 16:17.
Col2:8-10"...For in Him [Jesus] dwells all the fulness of the Godhead [theotēs -state of being God] bodily. AND YOU ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power"
I'm "complete" in Christ Jesus, head of all principality and power. No man is complete in any angel; God hasn't put man in subjection to angels (Heb2:5). Read Heb 1&2, compare Eph 1:20-23
Jesus Christ isn't Michael one of the angels (Dan10:13), Jesus created Michael.
@archeng123>"the first thing Barb you cant prove That Angels Exist"
Sure I can, Bible is full of angelic testimonies; if you don't believe the Word of God, research "Corrie Ten Boom"; God's angels were with her in the Nazi death camps and after while setting up Christian orphanages in Muslim dominated lands. And personally, I had a very nice stranger rescue me and my infant children in middle of a Saskatchewan snow storm. And after helping us, he disappeared. Heb13:2 Thanks be to the Lord God!
Romans 1:20 "For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"
@jehovahistheonlytrue. Please do enlighten us brother and provide us with a solid scripture reference as to where it states that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Im sure you hold Gods word in the highest of authority, so please do post up a reference in your reply to me with a scripture that clearly shows Jesus to be Michael. Im sure it will help everybody here =) Thanks!
Of course they tell YOU that. You're a Jw. There is a price to pay for disagreement in the WT so they keep their true feelings hidden. But when they can be anonymous like they can be on the Internet or by email... and to those whom they have no fear will turn them over to the elders the truth of their beliefs come out. They agree in your presence out of fear and to avoid persecution.
@21crosscheck21 I agree. I was at a meeting one time and the guy on the stage said we shouldn't expect angles to help us the way hey helped people in the bible. That was on Sunday during the WT study. He came over my house on Tuesday and when I asked him about it, he said didn't know what I was talking about and that angels WILL help us like they did in the bible. So, in private, they will express beliefs that contradict the WT.
@archeng123 dan 10: 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
so y is it that Michael is HELPING JESUS? If Jesus is michael y is He helping Himself?
@WIzDum82 There are scriptures that could be seen as justifying Jesus as God, and there are scriptures that could be understood as Jesus not being God. The same reasons Trinitarians justify Jesus as God is within the extrapolation of scriptural contextual analysis. In other words, while the "Trinity Doctrine" isn't exactly defined in scripture, it is extrapolated from various sections that implies justification. This is the same way JW's justify Michael the Archangel as Jesus -- extrapolation
@anzwertree , I agree w/ U that anyone can extrapolate their beliefs from scripture. I believe that theres alot in scripture 2 show Jesus is Micheal. I'm also understand how they get the concept of the trinity. I don't believe God is 3 person, but spoke of as the 3. God is spirt, the Holy Spirt, God is the Father b/c he is the creator, God is the Son b/c he rose from the dead.
@anzwertree -Sorry, can U tell me where it says that so I can look into that. Iknow it says that God doesn't have a son also, we have to extrapolate all verse pertaining to those verses.
@anzwertree- well that's not what I was looking 4. When one says that God cannot B tempted, it could mean that the temptation NEVER occurs or nthe temptation occurred BUT God didn't give into the temptation. Isn't that aprt of extrapolating the scriptures.
@WIzDum82 Well, think of how little sense that would make. The whole point we're supposed to be in this mess is because of sin. Sin is disobedience to God's word. It's silly to think God could disobey himself. But I wouldn't agree either way because I don't believe in the Bible anyway
@anzwertree - I think it makes alot of sense, to say God can't be tempted, means no one can tempted him is silly. Lots of people say "if I do this or that, let God strike me dead" this is tempting God. So it could only mean that God doesn't give in to temptations.
@WIzDum82 Well sense I don't really believe in God anyway, the whole argument is redundant to me. You can project anything you want onto the Bible. God can't die, he can die, God's one, he's three, and one. There's more contradictions that I care to sort through in one lifetime. If God wants to chat, I'm sure he has my number
@anzwertree "And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?" (Ex 17:7)
@WIzDum82 dan 10:5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
vs Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
so u r saying michael is not only Jesus bt he is also God?
@arnie365 - If I'm going 2 say that Micheal is Jesus, then yes I would B saying he is also God. Archangel means CHIEF MESSENGER, Jesus is the chief messenger b/c he IS the WORD of God.
@arnie365 ,that's a real bad example, one could say WHY is Jesus praying 2 God if he is God, samething...and when was Jesus detained by the king of Persia? This is all parabolic language...this could B Jesus and ha could B helping himself, just like he prays 2 himself.
@WIzDum82 ok so lets hear ur interpretation of that it`s such a bad example?
it is very easy for Jesus to pray to God and be God cos Jesus Son of man was a real man and God is OMNIPRESENT.so as the scriptures point out,GOD was IN JESUS and the Holy Spirit of God is Jesus Spirit.
as far as persia is concerned i believe Jesus is speaking of the spirit realm .
@arnie365 -not sure what it is U would like my interpretation of, but I think God can pray 2 himself & help himself. I do agree the the king of persia reference is spiritual, just as believe all of scripture is spiritual.
@archeng123 rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters
@archeng123 dan 10:5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
@jehovahistheonlytrue Hi JOT.... you keep saying that on every video. What exactly is it that is desperate about making an observation? Do you actually disagree that it might be a problem if your leaders "may not know who Jesus is?" I realize you believe he is Micheal.... but do you agree with so many of your brothers and sisters that it is not important "who he is?"
@archeng123 """In fact you cant prove anythink that happened in the Bible its an act of Faith""""
I would disagree with that Arch. For instance, the bible says that the Jews built a temple... well you can go to Israel today and still see evidence that the Jews did in fact build a temple. That of course is one, simple non controversial example but it makes the point well.
You are all wrong there is NO supernatrual beings provide me proof of a diety. I recommend you folks study the Theory of Evolution and leave behind these primitive Bronze age Stories.
Why doesn't Jesus just skip the whole organized religion thing? I say it's time for another update. If he really wanted know a lot of people, he'd be on Facebook. If Jesus was on Facebook, we could just ask him if he was an Archangel or "the Archangel" or whatever. He might even have it on his FAQ's tab. I wouldn't poke him though. He doesn't like that.
@Brucev7 Are you saying we can only see Jesus when we accept him? The Pharisees saw Jesus lots of times, and they didn't believe he was the Christ. We should have another shot! Jesus needs to pay another visit. It's been a long long time. Bring miracles back. Those would be awesome in such a rationalistic age.
@Brucev7 Yeah, but when will that be? Can't we all just ask God to do something again? Lets all get together as one and just petition God to come forward. We'll be like, "Yo, God! What's the deal? No letters in hundreds of years, no calls, no emails --- come on. Say something, anything."
We could get Dateline to do a whole special on it. If God was any kind of good CEO, then he would at least make a short statement. After all the fighting and killing, we deserve at least that much.
@anzwertree No one knows, not even the second person, the Co-Creator of the Universe.
'Can't we all just ask God to do something again? Lets all get together as one and just petition God to come forward. We'll be like, "Yo, God! What's the deal? No letters in hundreds of years, no calls, no emails --- come on. Say something, anything."
No because then we would attempt to elevate ourselves above God. Can't happen. He is the Great Creator, we are His creation. He has His purpose to carry out.
@Brucev7 Asking God to give a public statement is in no way raising ourselves above God's position. That sounds silly. Your objection is without merit here. I really don't see your logic on that one. The press, for example, asks the president for statements all the time. Does that mean the press is elevated above the president? Explain why asking God to give a public statement elevates us higher than God.
@anzwertree Ephesians 1:9-12 9He (A)made known to us the mystery of His will, (B)according to His kind intention which He (C)purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to (D)the fullness of the times, that is, (E)the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we (F)have obtained an inheritance, having been (G)predestined (H)according to His purpose who works all things (I)after the counsel of His will,
@archeng123 - Angels exist. I cannot prove it & all I have is my word, for whatever a person's word is worth these days. I saw one very clearly, two wings & all. God Bless !
You must spend a lot of time with Jehovah's Witnesses. Their numbers are certainly are not represented on Youtube in any way, so neither are their beliefs. If what you say is true, and there is no way of proving any of it, then I think this trend would be apparent among the thousands of Witnesses I associate with every year, and it isn't at all. Now if you would like to start a petition with only practicing Jehovah's Witnesses signing it, that might start to get you somewhere.
@nibornagrom Hi Robin... in the first 15 seconds of the video I point out this is my observation so your point is a bit moot. And of course you would not hear this from your brothers... they fear you and cannot be honest with you about what they believe. You do realize that there is a public... all be it anonymous reformation movement among active jws. Google it
I thought being anonymous when you are a JW was a bad thing. Now when you're part of a supposed "reformation" of Jehovah's Witnesses, it's okay to be anonymous. You acknowledge this, yet subscribe to it when it suits you. If you are referring to the blood and child abuse crowd, Yes I know about them; but Micheal "reformation", please tell me another, I could use the humor.
@nibornagrom Heres the difference Robin. The ones who disagree admit that they stay anonymous out of fear of losing their families. They are held hostage. The staunch jws here brag about all they will endure to make it to the end and claim to be true witnesses Jehovah .... but they are to afraid to show there faces. Go figure.
@21crosscheck21 There was an elder that stopped going after 40 years of service. He and his wife just up and quit going after their last child had left home. If you ask the ones that were in that congregation, they will say they did not have the right "heart condition". They will also make the claim that this is the seperation work of the wheat and the weeds. Maybe it is because some don't like the double life the WTBTS has been leading? Then the WTBTS will also punish those who call them out.
@nibornagrom Yes... hostage is the perfect term. Publicly disagree with the organization and you risk losing your family and your friends and relationships that are meaningful. Perhaps you may prefer the term coercion? Or does emotional blackmail fit better? Whatever the case may be the hall is filled with half hearted ones who are only there because they see no dignified way out, the Watchtower has worked hard to make that a reality and you partake in that wicked work.
What you describe is exactly what happened to dissenters in the first century. If you disagree with truth then there is no place for you in God's Christian organization. Unity is on one of the foundations of Christianity, which Christendom has none of. Your exaggerated opinions have become quite outrageous. I believe you're referring to what is the Scriptural doctrine of disfellowshipping. It's sad that Christendom has turned it's back on the Bible and prefers your watered down version.
Don't tell me about definitions, you are right. We omit ourselves from that definition.
I wonder if you could include Peter and John in with those without a high school education? I mean with a high school education. I mean... Oh! That's right! They didn't even have that. It's regrettable you think that way. It's good to see your're using your Bible.
@nibornagrom Actually Robin I prefer to read the scriptures in their proper context. As I have stated before... dis fellowshipping is biblical shunning is not. You appeal to an isolated verse but I prefer a harmonized systematic approach that doesn't lead to contradiction.
It's hardly moot, since there are many fewer witnesses posting their opinions in any of the mentioned venues now, than there were a year ago. That's an interesting. I also monitor many of these areas. Your just not getting the same amount of feedback that you used to. And when you do, you can't prove that they are Witnesses to begin with. Whatever, Philippians 4:8
@nibornagrom Cont... and Robin I am not trying to prove anything to you. However to deny that the Internet is a nightmare for the Wt is well.... you fill in the blank. I have long ago learned that those actually earnestly looking for truth or who disagree and want a way out generally don't argue in forums.... they send emails and make phone calls.
The internet is nothing but an extension of Satan's world which can be used for good and evil. The internet is a modern tool. Satan has used others for thousands of years. I would expect that there would be a fulfillment of Matt. 24:12 that would touch all. That they would seek comfort where ever they think they can find it, is not surprising. I find the same to be true about argument. Where we succeed however, is at peoples doors. That makes it more personal and effective.
@nibornagrom And Robin you have found comfort in what... an organization? I invite you to find comfort in Jesus... his yoke is easy my friend and you can find rest for your soul. To look for or to rest in anything or anyone else is not the plan the Father has for you. It's sad that you feel that pointing people to Jesus is the work of Satan.
The organization I've attached myself to, is the same CHRISTIAN congregation (church, assembly,), Paul attached himself to. Eph 3:10. No matter what you think, the Christian congregation is an organization. You just don't like ours. Even Satan has taught truth.
@nibornagrom """The organization I've attached myself to, is the same CHRISTIAN congregation (church, assembly,), Paul attached himself to. Eph 3:10"" If that's really true why did Russel start a brand new congregation and not attach himself to this supposed existing one?
Brian, it is very fact that we are discussing, and your not understanding, that the Scriptures call for a RE-establishment of the Christian congregation because of the apostacy that has dominated claimed Christianity for 1900 yrs. The wheat and the weeds parable is very clear. Your're just on the wrong side of the harvest. There was nothing NEW about the church in his time, that is why it had to be changed; to be renewed. Russell made the way clear for real Bible truth to be preached.
@nibornagrom So "God has ALWAYS used an organization" (the WT clearly claims that to be a fact) but for what, 1700 out of 2000 years there was no organization at all?
A Total apostasy, which is what you are really talking about is not scriptural based on Mathew 16 and the very parable you cite.
Jehovah has clearly always used an organization, be it heavenly or earthly, the Bible is very clear on this point. I did not say a "Total" apostasy, you said that, not me. I said the apostasy " has dominated". The WT does teach that as does the Bible, otherwise Daniel 12 has no meaning, nor do any of the Scriptures that speak of the apostasy. I put enough words in my mouth. I don't need your help. So you twisted what I said, but I'm sure that was not your intention, was it?
@nibornagrom Robin... I assumed you believed as the WT teaches... that is that God has always had an organization on earth that one must be a part of for salvation. As far as earthly organizations go, unless you can provide an unbroken organizational chain then there was total organizational apostasy was there not?
The "Revelation Climax" book Chap.6p.31par.17 says, "through all the centuries of apostasy, there would exist individual wheatlike Christians, genuine anointed ones. (Matt.13:24-29,36-43)" There's no way to know who were representing God's interests on earth. It would be pure speculation. The illustration of the wheat and the weeds focuses mostly on the end times. It would become clear who was which then. So, true knowledge (Dan. 12:4) and true Christianity has been reinstated.
@nibornagrom I am familiar with that statement... it merely demonstrates they are willing to contradict themselves without apology or regard for you. And the arbitrary application of those scriptures as somehow having anything to do with the WT cannot be proven, only assumed. Can you show me just 1 person who held to essential jw doctrine before the 18th century???? No there is not one. That should be a HUGE red flag based on those scriptures my friend.
Why the 18th century? I would say not much before the 19th century, if that.
To lift the veil of darkness one has to be willing to look at the Bible in a completely new way. The truth is very different from worldly thinking. Our organization is "no part of the world". You must transcend almost 2m yrs. of apostate indoctrination to accept it and God must draw you to it. To convince you of JW doctrine is not why I post on your vids. I like to keep the dialogue open. You never know.
@nibornagrom If someone claims to be a 'Christian' and yet constantly attacks the beliefs of others, then should you listen to their propaganda??
Jehovah's Witnesses having been telling people for DECADES about the attack on religion as the major sign of the end of this system of things. Soon God will call false religion (Babylon the Great) to account for all the despicable acts it has committed in his name. He will use the world's political powers as his instrument of execution :]
@21crosscheck21 Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before God as witness, not to fight about words, a thing of no usefulness at all because it overturns those listening...shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene...“Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” - 2 Timothy 2:14-19
@ReligionOrTruth Wow way to twist that scripture. I suppose Jesus was sinning when he pointed out the error of the Pharisees and religious leaders. Pointing out that the WT is teaching you false doctrine is not "fighting over words." Shame one you for misusing God's word like that and for the hypocrisy in telling others they are ungodly when they point out error yet you promote an organization that does the same on a regular basis.
@21crosscheck21 The problem is: You DON'T "point people to Jesus"....You, with the rest of your apostate false religionists, point to some "godman" that christendom made up 1600 years ago, and yet after all this time, STILL have no idea who Jehovah is, and who Jesus is.
I'm glad I no longer am part of your wicked, wicked, world of false religion! And I look forward to the destruction of, NOT necessarily people (even tho this must soon happen, sadly), but the destruction of the RELIGIOUS
the RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS, such as catholicism, eastern orthodoxism, protestantism, etc. that have misled people for SO LONG! I look forward to the end of all false religion, like the claptrap you believe in!
@nibornagrom .... Their numbers are certainly are not represented on Youtube in any way:
Are you sure? I know of two current members that are secretly working out details to meet Brian (21crosscheck21) and Bill (MCO4help) in secret. 2nd and 3rd gen Jw's.
@Brucev7 You ever worder why LORD is in all Caps then not the second time, When its in all caps it refers to GOD when lowercase Jesus, and besided if they were the same why would GOD be talking to himself???
Jesus Christ, IS LORD God of GLORY! Jn12:34-*41(Is6:1,5);1Co2:8;Jms2:1;Ac7:2 (Gen12)
Is53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: AND WE HID OUR FACES FROM HIM; he was despised, and we esteemed him not"
Don't hide from Him, as in the garden:
Gen3:8 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife HID THEMSELVES FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD God amongst the trees of the garden"
Christians lend me your ears! We all know that a global preaching work must take place in these last days. Tell me please, if the Jehovahs are so wrong and are the apostate, who is God using to do the global preaching work? If I were God and wanted to get a message to the world I certainly know whom I would use... the Jehovahs!!!!! I read all these anti JW comments on utube yet when it comes down to actually doing anything only they step up to the task everyone else is all show & no go!
grazv6 1 month ago
Sadly 21crosscheck21 is just another inept hate preacher. All you genuine Christians out there need to boycott this individual. Our Lord Jesus would not preach hatred about anybody, but would preach the Bibles message and let people see the fruitage of true christians for themselves, this individual by his actions and words is not a footstep follower of our Lord but a hate preacher, I'm sure we can agree we don't need anymore of them!
grazv6 2 months ago
@grazv6 """Sadly 21crosscheck21 is just another inept hate preacher""" Can you cite a single example of me preaching "hate?"
21crosscheck21 2 months ago
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@21crosscheck21 Revelation 12:7-9 Michael and his angels battled with Satan and his angels and hurled them to earth. Revelation 20:1-he has key of abyss. Daniel 10:13,21-Michael is one of the foremost princes,vs.21 Michael is prince of YOU people12:1-great prince (Isaiah 9:6-Jesus is Prince of Peace). Jude 9-Michael is archangel.Hebrews 1:4-He has become better than angels.Michael destroys Satan-Rev.20:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 says it's Jesus Our Lord who destroys the wicked (including Satan).
eternityandforever 1 month ago
@21crosscheck21 Anyone who posts copious amounts of negative comments regarding any group is motivated by hate, even though he hides like a wolf under a fleece as a self appointed 'helper of the lost'. Shameful. You Sir, are motivated by hatred. You have been notified of your weakness. I will pray for you.
grazv6 1 month ago
@grazv6 I made a video called "do I hate Jehovah's witnesses." If you want to know, instead of assume why I make videos you might want to check that out. At least then you can base your assessment of me on something other then an assumption. I do however appreciate the kindness you display in praying for me. Back at ya :')
21crosscheck21 1 month ago
@21crosscheck21 I look forward to your post, ' The things I love about Jehovahs Witnesses.'
I don't assume anything. So stop hiding from yourself.
grazv6 1 month ago
@grazv6 """ So stop hiding from yourself."""" I have no idea what that means
21crosscheck21 1 month ago
@21crosscheck21 It simply means that you try to hide your true motives from yourself by 'twisted reasoning'.(Kidding yourself) Part of you knows this, but the other part doesn't want to accept it.
I'm still looking forward to your post,'The things I love about Jehovahs Witnesses.'
I've got the measure of you and you know it.(That means I know what your motives are and what makes you tick.) I'll pray for you tonight.(That means you need all the help you can get!)
grazv6 1 month ago
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@21crosscheck21 It simply means that you try to hide your true motives from yourself by 'twisted reasoning'.(Kidding yourself) Part of you knows this, but the other part doesn't want to accept it.
I'm still looking forward to your post,'The things I love about Jehovahs Witnesses.'
I've got the measure of you and you know it.(That means I know what your motives are and what makes you tick.) I'll pray for you tonight.(That means you need all the help you can get!)
grazv6 1 month ago
@grazv6 I love JW, but they are brainwashed and deceived people, victimized by the governing body.
qvoprimum 1 month ago
@qvoprimum I think we 'want' to believe JW are a brainwashed people simply to appease our own troubled conscience because we see them doing what we dare not.Preaching publicly about Our Lord Jesus.
Are we not the ones brainwashed by countless negatives against them? Lets face it they are shaming us by their zeal. We are cowards by comparison don't you think?!
grazv6 1 month ago
"Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovahs chief angel, or archangel." The Watchtower, 2/1/1991, p. 17
"God did not send some angel to rescue mankind. He made the supreme sacrifice of sending his only-begotten Son..." The Watchtower, 2/15/1991, p. 14
1914watcher 5 months ago
k well first off you need to prove your sources instead of hearsay because even in court hersay evidence is non admissable, im dont wont to be rude but yes jesus was micheal before he came to earth jesus was his earthly name he was the only begoten son of god and he was sacrificed on the cross as and his blood was the sacrifice of man so that we can be forgiven of our sins.
02sijo 9 months ago
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Spiritual dumbness has nothing to do with one's IQ. You can be a certified genius yet be dumb as a rock in spiritual matters. "Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality"
Myaccountisvalid 1 year ago
Jesus is Michael the Archangel he is the highest messenger of God that is what Archangel mean
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
You are the STUPIDEST person I have ever heard and DO NOT HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, Only cowards post videos with false information to try and sway public oppinion. JW's will show you what they beleive from a copy of your own bible where as you dont even have scriptures to back your beliefs, even enclopedias say that the doctrins YOU belive in originated from pagans who worshiped MANY Gods.
wheelgod07 1 year ago 3
@wheelgod07 Can you tell me what you disagree with in the video?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@wheelgod07 actualy thats not true, they have there own version created by the Watchtower Society called The New Word Translation. This is the only one they are allowed to have.
oO0Briggs0Oo 1 year ago
@wheelgod07 Interesting that you use 'ad hominem' to attack the person rather than say what the 'facts' actually are in your opinion. Attacking the person is not Christian. If JWs show from the Bible what the facts are why haven't you put the 'facts' here instead of being down right antichrist?
PuNkOfNiCe 4 months ago
@wheelgod07 Feel the love.
usenetposts 3 months ago
@wheelgod07 I have been going to the kingdom off and on all my life. I wanted to get baptized, but i been noticing a lot of thing that trouble me. All the subliminels in the Watchtowers and books. And that pastor Russel was a free mason who have occult origins. If you ask questions you are considered a apostate. I want to do what is right in Gods eyes but i want answers.
peteduel1 2 months ago
@peteduel1 If you want to do whats right you won't find that in the Watchtower. Take some time to read through a good bible without their influence and you will be shocked at what you find.
21crosscheck21 2 months ago
looks like I am considered spam now.
JAT002 1 year ago
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The Word was God and the Word became flesh. Thats enough.
JAT002 1 year ago
Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him --- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."
dbspooky 1 year ago
JESUS = EMMANUEL = GOD IS WITH US.
laffy4christ 1 year ago
My next question is: would an angel have been a sufficient sacrifice for the sins of man? I do not know the answer to that question, but it is the next research project. My first impresssion is that it would NOT be a sufficient sacrifice.
For God (Jehovah) to come to earth in the flesh and give himself to brutal torture and death so that all men might have everlasting life would be a more than suffiient sacrifice.
Thats why it is so important to God that we believe this and love him for it.
JAT002 1 year ago
Another question is, did the first century Christians believe that Jesus' body rose from the dead. Apparently, according to JWs, God wanted the Jews to think that Jesus' body was brought back to life. So He sent Michael back to appear with holes in his hands and feet and a wound in his side. Based on this info and what is written in the Gospels and Epistles, is there any indication that the 1st century Christians would have come up with the conclusion that Jesus' body was disintegrated?
JAT002 1 year ago
The JWs believe that they are like the 1st century Christians. Question is, did the 1st century Christians believe Jesus and Michael were the same? The apostles spread the word and converted people without a written NT. Most of the NT was written as letters to churches already established. Revelations was written very late in the 1st century but was not taught to the apostles by Jesus when he was on earth. Based on the info available at the time, did the apostles teach that Jesus is Michael?
JAT002 1 year ago
Jw's don't worship Jesus so whether Jesus is Michael or not, it would not affect their relationship with God being that they only worship Jehovah as God. However, for Trinitarians it is quite another matter if Michael is Jesus, since they believe Jesus is God and worship Jesus as God, they would be worshipping not God but an Arc Angel...And what happens when you worship Angels instead of God?
FYI : All Jw's believe Jesus is Michael but if he wasn't it doesnt rock our world!!
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware Hi Fair.... all jws certainly don't believe Jesus is Micheal. Now they may not tell you this out of fear but I would say about half do not believe it.
Now it should greatly concern if your leaders do not know who Jesus is for the reasons I stated in the video. Can you imagine Jesus appointing as slave people who teach millions lies about who he is? That would be ridiculous.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 Hi 21,... Jw's are a unified group, so if a person is against a bible teaching then he is either turning apostate or he doesn't quite understand what he's saying or he is not a Jw, it's that simple. Jw's are honest people. Talk is cheap ...dont kid yourself.
As it stands today, all real Jw's believe Michael is the name Jesus has in heaven BUT IF he wasn't, our faith is not shattered.... So unless a new understanding in scripture surfaces, this IS what we believe and teach.
FairNskware 1 year ago
@FairNskware you wrote "all real Jw's believe Michael is the name Jesus has in heaven BUT IF he wasn't, our faith is not shattered"
WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE THIS IF IT'S NOT ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE? IS IT BECAUSE THE WTBTS HAS CONVINCED YOU OF THIS? WHERE IS THIS IN SCRIPTURE THAT JESUS' NAME IS MICHAEL? PLZ. IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE SO HOW WILL YOU SUPPORT AND TEACH THIS FALSE DOCTRINE.
laffy4christ 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 I have my own unique history with the WT org. I have been studying their history and doctrine to better equip myself when confronted and possibly lead them in the right direction.
Question: Would it be fair to say the JWs believe that Jesus is dead and does not reign in heaven? Michael became Jesus in the flesh and Jesus' body was never resurected. Michael, upon his return to heaven, resumed his postion as an archangel. So there is no more Jesus. Does this sum it up?
JAT002 1 year ago
@JAT002 Yes..... if their theology and draw a logical conclusion based upon what they teach that would be the result. However most would likely disagree because they have never connected the dots.
There a quote from the WT you can google that claims "the man Jesus is dead and gone forever."
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
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@FairNskware John 20:28 -Jesus is called GOD (NOT A GOD!!!) & accepted it JWS .. Any JEWISH person at that time would consider it blasphemous. so he is God the Son!
luv4u351 1 year ago
Luke 10: 22 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Isn't it interesting the JWs know something only the Father is supposed to know.
JAT002 1 year ago
If we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior like the bible tells us to, who are we accepting? According to the WTS, Jesus no longer exists. Jesus only lived in the flesh?? Michael resumed his position as an archangel upon his return to heaven. The person of Jesus no longer exists. Who is going to the Father for us? If Michael resumed being an angel, that wouldn't be his job anymore. That is the duty of the Savior, Jesus Christ. But the WTS says he died.
JAT002 1 year ago
just look in the bible michael was called prince of peace notice that Jesus did not become king until satan was kicked out of heaven he was a prince
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
The WT is amazing. It claims that Jesus is Michael....Why does the Bible not say that any where??? The Word of God claims that Jesus is God. Over and over and over and over and over again. The Word of God also makes it perfectly obvious that Jesus is Jehovah.... so is the WT claiming that Jehovah is Michael...BTW --The WT used to claim that the Pope was Michael. Maybe next they will claim that Obama is Michael.....The Truth Never Changes
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky it do not claim that Jesus is God in the bible Micheal is called Prince of Peace and if you look up Micheal the Arcangel it will say who is like God Arc means Chief or Prince and Angel is a messager of God so if you put that togather it will be that Micheal the Arcangel is a head messenger of God who is like God himself the only being that comes close to be like Jehovah is Jesus Christ himself
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 Bless your heart...hundreds upon hundreds of verses in most translations and original text do in fact claim Jesus to be God--unlike what WT teaches..They even tried to hide many of those in their NWT........There is no putting together that Michael is Jesus--as the WT used to claim the Michael was the Pope. Maybe they will next claim that Michael is Oboma....twisted logic as used by WT leads so many astray---Please look to Jesus for you salvation--not the WT
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky I didnt know the JW once claimed that Michael was the pope. Are you sure? Thats crazy!
jackiefoster1981 1 year ago
@jackiefoster1981 Yes I am sure... Until 1917 they claimed that Jesus was not Michael.. in1917 they claimed that Michael was the Pope.....then they changed again in 1920 when they made the most ridiculous claim anyone has ever heard that Jesus is Michael.......wow......
FYI....they also taught that Jesus is to be worshipped (just like the Word of God teaches ).until 1953 they then declared that he was not to be...
The truth will set you free.......the truth never changes
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky wow! thanks for the info, very interesting.
jackiefoster1981 1 year ago
Who Is Michael the Archangel?
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
(cont.).....
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call,..." (cont.)
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
More information showing that the name Michael applies to God’s Son is found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@TheMulder1981
Did you ever look up the meaning of the name Jesus?
Jehovah (YHWH) is salvation.
What was Mary told to name her baby?
JAT002 1 year ago
Have you ever stopped to consider that most of the people you have been talking to on the internet might not be actual jehovahs witnesses...
Jjld1990 1 year ago
@Jjld1990 I have a hunch that most of those who defend the WT on the internet do not actually go to meetings or door to door. They embrace the doctrine and like to argue but they hypocritically ignore some basic commands of the WT. But the one who write emails or call. I have little doubt that they are truly jws. Some have sincere questions, some are confused about how to leave with dignity and others are concerned about family members etc...
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 You seem to have a lot of HUNCHES. You dont seem to have many FACTS. Here is a fact you can rely on. I OWN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR HATE VIDEOS THAT I GO TO. this will soon include this one and any and every other that I might happen upon. All of your little Hate Mongers that used to "Hangout" at each one and sharpen their knives..HAS LEFT. spooky, posttrib, joeychick, mosher, jessup, You are just like Paul, All have turned away from you!.
HolyRollerSpirit1 5 months ago
@21crosscheck21 You seem to have a lot of HUNCHES. You dont seem to have many FACTS. Here is a fact you can rely on. I OWN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR HATE VIDEOS THAT I GO TO. this will soon include this one and any and every other that I might happen upon. All of your little Hate Mongers that used to "Hangout" at each one and sharpen their knives..HAS LEFT. spooky, posttrib, joeychick, mosher, jessup, You are just like Paul, All have turned away from you!.
HolyRollerSpirit1 5 months ago 5
@HolyRollerSpirit1 Your free to speak your mind here like everybody else but if your intention is to harass people, insult them and chase them away I'll block you. So the next time I see you insult someone or bother them you're blocked.....
21crosscheck21 5 months ago
@21crosscheck21 Do you actually think what you keep saying is not insulting? Do you think these Hate Videos are an Hassassment to the Jehova witnesses? I dont chase anybody away by harassment, I use the TRUTH. You should try it. I have asked you to "debate" me several times and each time you refuse. I have asked you over and over why do you pick on the Witnesses? What have they done to deserve you and your attacks? You wont respond. I make a little announcement and you respond within 5 min??
HolyRollerSpirit1 5 months ago
@HolyRollerSpirit1 You have made likely a 100 comments since my last post to you... letting you know what the rules are... people are complaining about you. If you have points to make.... make them. If you want to call people "haters" and insult,,,, sorry you're gone... those are the rules. Take it or leave it.
21crosscheck21 5 months ago
@21crosscheck21 Okee Dookee, I will be at least as nice as you. I will try and be more passive agressive like you, also. This is my last post to you until you wish to engage. Remember, Jesus sees you. He will be judging you at a later date...be prepared. Try and remembre this, as well, no matter how nicely you say something mean, its still mean. No matter how pleasant you are when demeaning someone, your disdain still shines thru.
I know you see me and my words..I will obey the rules, same msg.
HolyRollerSpirit1 5 months ago 7
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@21crosscheck21 I invite you to look at my latest posts on the not so Devastating Verse for JW'w site. I would enjoy your retort. If you have the time. In fact, I invite all "JW's" and Non-Denoms to respond to my reasoning. If you dont want to respond you dont have to. You can read it, not read it or not read it and say you did or read it and say you didnt. It might make you think or it might make you laugh. Is it OK to call you people BAC's or ND's? I think it is fair, dont you?
HolyRollerSpirit1 5 months ago
Well said 21crosscheck21.
abbyguy 1 year ago
I've always wondered if the Michael "deniers" here on the 'Tube would be allowed to voice their skepticism and doubt at their local kingdom halls.
msm1876 1 year ago
@msm1876 I see you are running into them as well. Would you agree that there are more now then there used to be?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 Well, the ones I talk to @ my house are pretty adamant. They probably don't have to defend the notion as much as those on the net do. Those on the net probably have seen how indefensible the doctrine is, so they have to take a kind of middle ground on it. They think that because they aren't saying "Well, I don't think he's Michael," they're still in the WT's graces, but I'd like to see them say that at their KHs. Doubt is disagreement, and the WT is not to be disagreed with.
msm1876 1 year ago
@archeng123 "but said, The Lord rebuke thee..."
Exactly! This is much different than when Jesus told legion to be quiet. (Mk 1:25)
rpierre777 1 year ago
@archeng123 "So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.”
That's just like saying the Admiral of the Navy is the same person as the commander of a battle group.
rpierre777 1 year ago
"Who do you say I am?" -Jesus-Matthew 16:15
"You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."-Simon Peter-Mtthew 16:16.
"You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.-Jesus-Matthew 16:17.
sldeyo 1 year ago
@archeng123>"who micheal is in the Bible"
Col2:8-10"...For in Him [Jesus] dwells all the fulness of the Godhead [theotēs -state of being God] bodily. AND YOU ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power"
I'm "complete" in Christ Jesus, head of all principality and power. No man is complete in any angel; God hasn't put man in subjection to angels (Heb2:5). Read Heb 1&2, compare Eph 1:20-23
Jesus Christ isn't Michael one of the angels (Dan10:13), Jesus created Michael.
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@archeng123>"the first thing Barb you cant prove That Angels Exist"
Sure I can, Bible is full of angelic testimonies; if you don't believe the Word of God, research "Corrie Ten Boom"; God's angels were with her in the Nazi death camps and after while setting up Christian orphanages in Muslim dominated lands. And personally, I had a very nice stranger rescue me and my infant children in middle of a Saskatchewan snow storm. And after helping us, he disappeared. Heb13:2 Thanks be to the Lord God!
barbsinclair 1 year ago
@barbsinclair AMEN!!!
rpierre777 1 year ago
@barbsinclair
Romans 1:20 "For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"
Support you on this one!
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@archeng123 As I can't prove you exist or who you purport you are. Joh 14:6
Brucev7 1 year ago
@jehovahistheonlytrue. Please do enlighten us brother and provide us with a solid scripture reference as to where it states that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Im sure you hold Gods word in the highest of authority, so please do post up a reference in your reply to me with a scripture that clearly shows Jesus to be Michael. Im sure it will help everybody here =) Thanks!
WilteredFire 1 year ago
@jehovahistheonlytrue ""well all the jws i spoke to believe its very important """
Of course they tell YOU that. You're a Jw. There is a price to pay for disagreement in the WT so they keep their true feelings hidden. But when they can be anonymous like they can be on the Internet or by email... and to those whom they have no fear will turn them over to the elders the truth of their beliefs come out. They agree in your presence out of fear and to avoid persecution.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago 10
@21crosscheck21 I agree. I was at a meeting one time and the guy on the stage said we shouldn't expect angles to help us the way hey helped people in the bible. That was on Sunday during the WT study. He came over my house on Tuesday and when I asked him about it, he said didn't know what I was talking about and that angels WILL help us like they did in the bible. So, in private, they will express beliefs that contradict the WT.
rpierre777 1 year ago
@archeng123 dan 10: 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
so y is it that Michael is HELPING JESUS? If Jesus is michael y is He helping Himself?
arnie365 1 year ago
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WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 There are scriptures that could be seen as justifying Jesus as God, and there are scriptures that could be understood as Jesus not being God. The same reasons Trinitarians justify Jesus as God is within the extrapolation of scriptural contextual analysis. In other words, while the "Trinity Doctrine" isn't exactly defined in scripture, it is extrapolated from various sections that implies justification. This is the same way JW's justify Michael the Archangel as Jesus -- extrapolation
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree , I agree w/ U that anyone can extrapolate their beliefs from scripture. I believe that theres alot in scripture 2 show Jesus is Micheal. I'm also understand how they get the concept of the trinity. I don't believe God is 3 person, but spoke of as the 3. God is spirt, the Holy Spirt, God is the Father b/c he is the creator, God is the Son b/c he rose from the dead.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 Yeah, but the Bible says God can't die. So the whole God rising from the dead thing seems to create a paradox.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree -Sorry, can U tell me where it says that so I can look into that. Iknow it says that God doesn't have a son also, we have to extrapolate all verse pertaining to those verses.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 Not only can God not die, he can't even be tempted. Look at James 1:13 and Habakkuk 1:12
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree- well that's not what I was looking 4. When one says that God cannot B tempted, it could mean that the temptation NEVER occurs or nthe temptation occurred BUT God didn't give into the temptation. Isn't that aprt of extrapolating the scriptures.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 Well, think of how little sense that would make. The whole point we're supposed to be in this mess is because of sin. Sin is disobedience to God's word. It's silly to think God could disobey himself. But I wouldn't agree either way because I don't believe in the Bible anyway
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree - I think it makes alot of sense, to say God can't be tempted, means no one can tempted him is silly. Lots of people say "if I do this or that, let God strike me dead" this is tempting God. So it could only mean that God doesn't give in to temptations.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 Well sense I don't really believe in God anyway, the whole argument is redundant to me. You can project anything you want onto the Bible. God can't die, he can die, God's one, he's three, and one. There's more contradictions that I care to sort through in one lifetime. If God wants to chat, I'm sure he has my number
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree - I hear U my friend....take care.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 I will do that, and be careful with your knee
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree "And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?" (Ex 17:7)
rachelbinto 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 dan 10:5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
vs Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
so u r saying michael is not only Jesus bt he is also God?
arnie365 1 year ago
@arnie365 - If I'm going 2 say that Micheal is Jesus, then yes I would B saying he is also God. Archangel means CHIEF MESSENGER, Jesus is the chief messenger b/c he IS the WORD of God.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 there4 GOD is the chief messanger and NOT the CHIEF?
IF U READ THE SCRIPTURE CORRECTLY THERE IS NO VERSE THAT HINTS TO JESUS BEING MICHAEL
arnie365 1 year ago
@arnie365 ,that's a real bad example, one could say WHY is Jesus praying 2 God if he is God, samething...and when was Jesus detained by the king of Persia? This is all parabolic language...this could B Jesus and ha could B helping himself, just like he prays 2 himself.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@WIzDum82 ok so lets hear ur interpretation of that it`s such a bad example?
it is very easy for Jesus to pray to God and be God cos Jesus Son of man was a real man and God is OMNIPRESENT.so as the scriptures point out,GOD was IN JESUS and the Holy Spirit of God is Jesus Spirit.
as far as persia is concerned i believe Jesus is speaking of the spirit realm .
arnie365 1 year ago
@arnie365 -not sure what it is U would like my interpretation of, but I think God can pray 2 himself & help himself. I do agree the the king of persia reference is spiritual, just as believe all of scripture is spiritual.
WIzDum82 1 year ago
@archeng123 rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters
NOW WHO IS THIS?
arnie365 1 year ago
@archeng123 dan 10:5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.
WHO IS THIS MAN?
arnie365 1 year ago
@jehovahistheonlytrue Hi JOT.... you keep saying that on every video. What exactly is it that is desperate about making an observation? Do you actually disagree that it might be a problem if your leaders "may not know who Jesus is?" I realize you believe he is Micheal.... but do you agree with so many of your brothers and sisters that it is not important "who he is?"
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@archeng123 """In fact you cant prove anythink that happened in the Bible its an act of Faith""""
I would disagree with that Arch. For instance, the bible says that the Jews built a temple... well you can go to Israel today and still see evidence that the Jews did in fact build a temple. That of course is one, simple non controversial example but it makes the point well.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
You are all wrong there is NO supernatrual beings provide me proof of a diety. I recommend you folks study the Theory of Evolution and leave behind these primitive Bronze age Stories.
wowamonn 1 year ago
Why doesn't Jesus just skip the whole organized religion thing? I say it's time for another update. If he really wanted know a lot of people, he'd be on Facebook. If Jesus was on Facebook, we could just ask him if he was an Archangel or "the Archangel" or whatever. He might even have it on his FAQ's tab. I wouldn't poke him though. He doesn't like that.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree Spoken like a human. Joh 14:6
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 I'm just playing, bro. CrossCheck knows my personality by now. Jesus is cool too. I met him a few weeks ago at Taco Bell
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree If that was in person, I doubt it. If you accepted salvation through Him well, that's a different story. )
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 Are you saying we can only see Jesus when we accept him? The Pharisees saw Jesus lots of times, and they didn't believe he was the Christ. We should have another shot! Jesus needs to pay another visit. It's been a long long time. Bring miracles back. Those would be awesome in such a rationalistic age.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree Jesus said He wouldn't come back until the Father sends Him.
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 Yeah, but when will that be? Can't we all just ask God to do something again? Lets all get together as one and just petition God to come forward. We'll be like, "Yo, God! What's the deal? No letters in hundreds of years, no calls, no emails --- come on. Say something, anything."
We could get Dateline to do a whole special on it. If God was any kind of good CEO, then he would at least make a short statement. After all the fighting and killing, we deserve at least that much.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree No one knows, not even the second person, the Co-Creator of the Universe.
'Can't we all just ask God to do something again? Lets all get together as one and just petition God to come forward. We'll be like, "Yo, God! What's the deal? No letters in hundreds of years, no calls, no emails --- come on. Say something, anything."
No because then we would attempt to elevate ourselves above God. Can't happen. He is the Great Creator, we are His creation. He has His purpose to carry out.
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 Asking God to give a public statement is in no way raising ourselves above God's position. That sounds silly. Your objection is without merit here. I really don't see your logic on that one. The press, for example, asks the president for statements all the time. Does that mean the press is elevated above the president? Explain why asking God to give a public statement elevates us higher than God.
anzwertree 1 year ago
@anzwertree Oh you can ask, lol, just don't expect an answer. : )
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 Exactly why I'm an atheist.
anzwertree 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@anzwertree No, it's because of your stubbornness.
Brucev7 1 year ago
@anzwertree Ephesians 1:9-12 9He (A)made known to us the mystery of His will, (B)according to His kind intention which He (C)purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to (D)the fullness of the times, that is, (E)the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we (F)have obtained an inheritance, having been (G)predestined (H)according to His purpose who works all things (I)after the counsel of His will,
Brucev7 1 year ago
@anzwertree Cont'd 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in [a]Christ would be (J)to the praise of His glory.
This passage should help.
Brucev7 1 year ago
@archeng123 - Angels exist. I cannot prove it & all I have is my word, for whatever a person's word is worth these days. I saw one very clearly, two wings & all. God Bless !
earthenly 1 year ago
I'm sorry, I just hate the JW denomination...not the people, just the denomination itself.
fruitikay 1 year ago
I'm still vehement.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Hello Robin... one of the few but I am sure you are.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
You must spend a lot of time with Jehovah's Witnesses. Their numbers are certainly are not represented on Youtube in any way, so neither are their beliefs. If what you say is true, and there is no way of proving any of it, then I think this trend would be apparent among the thousands of Witnesses I associate with every year, and it isn't at all. Now if you would like to start a petition with only practicing Jehovah's Witnesses signing it, that might start to get you somewhere.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Hi Robin... in the first 15 seconds of the video I point out this is my observation so your point is a bit moot. And of course you would not hear this from your brothers... they fear you and cannot be honest with you about what they believe. You do realize that there is a public... all be it anonymous reformation movement among active jws. Google it
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
I thought being anonymous when you are a JW was a bad thing. Now when you're part of a supposed "reformation" of Jehovah's Witnesses, it's okay to be anonymous. You acknowledge this, yet subscribe to it when it suits you. If you are referring to the blood and child abuse crowd, Yes I know about them; but Micheal "reformation", please tell me another, I could use the humor.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Heres the difference Robin. The ones who disagree admit that they stay anonymous out of fear of losing their families. They are held hostage. The staunch jws here brag about all they will endure to make it to the end and claim to be true witnesses Jehovah .... but they are to afraid to show there faces. Go figure.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 There was an elder that stopped going after 40 years of service. He and his wife just up and quit going after their last child had left home. If you ask the ones that were in that congregation, they will say they did not have the right "heart condition". They will also make the claim that this is the seperation work of the wheat and the weeds. Maybe it is because some don't like the double life the WTBTS has been leading? Then the WTBTS will also punish those who call them out.
1914watcher 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
hostage? right.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Yes... hostage is the perfect term. Publicly disagree with the organization and you risk losing your family and your friends and relationships that are meaningful. Perhaps you may prefer the term coercion? Or does emotional blackmail fit better? Whatever the case may be the hall is filled with half hearted ones who are only there because they see no dignified way out, the Watchtower has worked hard to make that a reality and you partake in that wicked work.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@Brian
What you describe is exactly what happened to dissenters in the first century. If you disagree with truth then there is no place for you in God's Christian organization. Unity is on one of the foundations of Christianity, which Christendom has none of. Your exaggerated opinions have become quite outrageous. I believe you're referring to what is the Scriptural doctrine of disfellowshipping. It's sad that Christendom has turned it's back on the Bible and prefers your watered down version.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom
I hate to reveal this to you. The Webster definition of "Christendom" applies to the Jehovah's Witness denomination.
I guess you can't expect much more from an organization run by men with only a highschool education.
BTW, the church I am a member of has unity. We follow the same bible you do except without the scores of mistranslations as in the NWT.
JAT002 1 year ago
@JAT002
Don't tell me about definitions, you are right. We omit ourselves from that definition.
I wonder if you could include Peter and John in with those without a high school education? I mean with a high school education. I mean... Oh! That's right! They didn't even have that. It's regrettable you think that way. It's good to see your're using your Bible.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Actually Robin I prefer to read the scriptures in their proper context. As I have stated before... dis fellowshipping is biblical shunning is not. You appeal to an isolated verse but I prefer a harmonized systematic approach that doesn't lead to contradiction.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
It's hardly moot, since there are many fewer witnesses posting their opinions in any of the mentioned venues now, than there were a year ago. That's an interesting. I also monitor many of these areas. Your just not getting the same amount of feedback that you used to. And when you do, you can't prove that they are Witnesses to begin with. Whatever, Philippians 4:8
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Cont... and Robin I am not trying to prove anything to you. However to deny that the Internet is a nightmare for the Wt is well.... you fill in the blank. I have long ago learned that those actually earnestly looking for truth or who disagree and want a way out generally don't argue in forums.... they send emails and make phone calls.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
The internet is nothing but an extension of Satan's world which can be used for good and evil. The internet is a modern tool. Satan has used others for thousands of years. I would expect that there would be a fulfillment of Matt. 24:12 that would touch all. That they would seek comfort where ever they think they can find it, is not surprising. I find the same to be true about argument. Where we succeed however, is at peoples doors. That makes it more personal and effective.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom And Robin you have found comfort in what... an organization? I invite you to find comfort in Jesus... his yoke is easy my friend and you can find rest for your soul. To look for or to rest in anything or anyone else is not the plan the Father has for you. It's sad that you feel that pointing people to Jesus is the work of Satan.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
The organization I've attached myself to, is the same CHRISTIAN congregation (church, assembly,), Paul attached himself to. Eph 3:10. No matter what you think, the Christian congregation is an organization. You just don't like ours. Even Satan has taught truth.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom """The organization I've attached myself to, is the same CHRISTIAN congregation (church, assembly,), Paul attached himself to. Eph 3:10"" If that's really true why did Russel start a brand new congregation and not attach himself to this supposed existing one?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21cc21
Brian, it is very fact that we are discussing, and your not understanding, that the Scriptures call for a RE-establishment of the Christian congregation because of the apostacy that has dominated claimed Christianity for 1900 yrs. The wheat and the weeds parable is very clear. Your're just on the wrong side of the harvest. There was nothing NEW about the church in his time, that is why it had to be changed; to be renewed. Russell made the way clear for real Bible truth to be preached.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom So "God has ALWAYS used an organization" (the WT clearly claims that to be a fact) but for what, 1700 out of 2000 years there was no organization at all?
A Total apostasy, which is what you are really talking about is not scriptural based on Mathew 16 and the very parable you cite.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21
Jehovah has clearly always used an organization, be it heavenly or earthly, the Bible is very clear on this point. I did not say a "Total" apostasy, you said that, not me. I said the apostasy " has dominated". The WT does teach that as does the Bible, otherwise Daniel 12 has no meaning, nor do any of the Scriptures that speak of the apostasy. I put enough words in my mouth. I don't need your help. So you twisted what I said, but I'm sure that was not your intention, was it?
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom Robin... I assumed you believed as the WT teaches... that is that God has always had an organization on earth that one must be a part of for salvation. As far as earthly organizations go, unless you can provide an unbroken organizational chain then there was total organizational apostasy was there not?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21ck21
The "Revelation Climax" book Chap.6p.31par.17 says, "through all the centuries of apostasy, there would exist individual wheatlike Christians, genuine anointed ones. (Matt.13:24-29,36-43)" There's no way to know who were representing God's interests on earth. It would be pure speculation. The illustration of the wheat and the weeds focuses mostly on the end times. It would become clear who was which then. So, true knowledge (Dan. 12:4) and true Christianity has been reinstated.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom I am familiar with that statement... it merely demonstrates they are willing to contradict themselves without apology or regard for you. And the arbitrary application of those scriptures as somehow having anything to do with the WT cannot be proven, only assumed. Can you show me just 1 person who held to essential jw doctrine before the 18th century???? No there is not one. That should be a HUGE red flag based on those scriptures my friend.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21ck21
Why the 18th century? I would say not much before the 19th century, if that.
To lift the veil of darkness one has to be willing to look at the Bible in a completely new way. The truth is very different from worldly thinking. Our organization is "no part of the world". You must transcend almost 2m yrs. of apostate indoctrination to accept it and God must draw you to it. To convince you of JW doctrine is not why I post on your vids. I like to keep the dialogue open. You never know.
nibornagrom 1 year ago
@nibornagrom If someone claims to be a 'Christian' and yet constantly attacks the beliefs of others, then should you listen to their propaganda??
Jehovah's Witnesses having been telling people for DECADES about the attack on religion as the major sign of the end of this system of things. Soon God will call false religion (Babylon the Great) to account for all the despicable acts it has committed in his name. He will use the world's political powers as his instrument of execution :]
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
@ReligionOrTruth Eph 5:11 ""Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.""" Do you disagree?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before God as witness, not to fight about words, a thing of no usefulness at all because it overturns those listening...shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene...“Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” - 2 Timothy 2:14-19
:)
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
@ReligionOrTruth Wow way to twist that scripture. I suppose Jesus was sinning when he pointed out the error of the Pharisees and religious leaders. Pointing out that the WT is teaching you false doctrine is not "fighting over words." Shame one you for misusing God's word like that and for the hypocrisy in telling others they are ungodly when they point out error yet you promote an organization that does the same on a regular basis.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
Comment removed
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 NO church or organisation is perfect and neither are its members because ALL men are sinners :]
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 The problem is: You DON'T "point people to Jesus"....You, with the rest of your apostate false religionists, point to some "godman" that christendom made up 1600 years ago, and yet after all this time, STILL have no idea who Jehovah is, and who Jesus is.
I'm glad I no longer am part of your wicked, wicked, world of false religion! And I look forward to the destruction of, NOT necessarily people (even tho this must soon happen, sadly), but the destruction of the RELIGIOUS
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
the RELIGIOUS SYSTEMS, such as catholicism, eastern orthodoxism, protestantism, etc. that have misled people for SO LONG! I look forward to the end of all false religion, like the claptrap you believe in!
TheMulder1981 1 year ago
@nibornagrom .... Their numbers are certainly are not represented on Youtube in any way:
Are you sure? I know of two current members that are secretly working out details to meet Brian (21crosscheck21) and Bill (MCO4help) in secret. 2nd and 3rd gen Jw's.
1914watcher 1 year ago
@nibornagrom I'm still me. Joh 14:6
Brucev7 1 year ago
@archeng123 Michael knew of the power of Satan. He rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord our God, Yeshua. Jesus Christ has power over Satan.
Psalm 110
The LORD Gives Dominion to the King.
A Psalm of David. 1(A)The LORD says to my Lord: "(B)Sit at My right hand Until I make (C)Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Brucev7 1 year ago
@Brucev7 You ever worder why LORD is in all Caps then not the second time, When its in all caps it refers to GOD when lowercase Jesus, and besided if they were the same why would GOD be talking to himself???
wheelgod07 1 year ago
@wheelgod07 What is the reference?
Brucev7 1 year ago
@archeng123
Jesus Christ, IS LORD God of GLORY! Jn12:34-*41(Is6:1,5);1Co2:8;Jms2:1;Ac7:2 (Gen12)
Is53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: AND WE HID OUR FACES FROM HIM; he was despised, and we esteemed him not"
Don't hide from Him, as in the garden:
Gen3:8 "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife HID THEMSELVES FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD God amongst the trees of the garden"
barbsinclair 1 year ago 4
This is so true. Great question & post.
BLUELIGHTNINGTIGER 1 year ago
@archeng123 Arch I'm confused about what you are presenting here. Are you trying to demonstrate that Jesus is Micheal or that he's not Micheal?
21crosscheck21 1 year ago