Douglas Murray speech, New Statesman/Frontline Club debate

[ZobaK1]

scumbag Assange is now finding his real friends... in Putins Russia!

[ZobaK1]

Murray is one of the few men with balls!

[Zigiwy]

"Are you sure you know what you're doing?" is such a potent line when he uses it in this context.

[DemocritusWept]

bit of a problem judging how well Murray did since I couldn't hear the other side! Where's the rest?

[bahdahdoop]

Thank you for renewing mu faith in clear thinking, Mr. Murray.

[usama2010auditor2010]

douglas murray SUCKS!

[orbital92hotmail]

I'm amazed Assange is still living.

[GiantSandles]

"But... if you release documents you might make Israel and America look bad!"

So?

[andyz0007]

@GiantSandles The leaks actually made the US look good.

[IAMLS360]

@GiantSandles the point he is making is that journalists enjoy smearing the nations that are democratic for the simple reason that they value freedom, and if this course of action continues to deliberatly make America look weak by letting loose conspiracy theories it creates paranoia and unanswerable questions that could lead us anywhere. Also, the point he makes about Russia hits home and does show the cowardice of what Assange thinks he is doing

[GiantSandles]

@IAMLS360 Yep. Ain't free expression a pain?

[IAMLS360]

@GiantSandles oh yes. But then again it is not free expression, it is exposure; two very different things. Free expression is the ability to, without prejudice or interruption, express a point of view. Exposure is to locate, track and reveal information that would otherwise be kept in secret - this is not free expression, rather, it is the use of the freedom given to a party who then unleash knowledge that could be damaging on an international scale. Big dicotomy

[GiantSandles]

@IAMLS360 >the point he is making is that journalists enjoy smearing the nations that are democratic for the simple reason that they value freedom

That sentence made no sense. At all. Journalists have the freedom to 'smear', as you put it, democratic governments. Right, so what? Is that supposed to be an argument against whistleblowing or something, because it's a pretty poor one if it is.

[IAMLS360]

@GiantSandles no, what i am saying is because journalists have the freedom to use investigative techniques in their practice, they decide to attack the nations that give journalists that freedom, like America, like Britain etc. We never hear leaked stories about Russian intelligence, Chinese Intelligence, Iranian, Israeli, Japanese and so on. Why you may ask? Because Assange and others like him have no backbone. So yes, leakers are cowards and need to focus more on hostile nations

[DancinJim]

To all the Assange lovers out there, allow me to point out the recent news that he is outraged that an autobiography has been published about him, without his consent! A taste of his own medicine, methinks! Yet he displays utter hypocrisy by claiming this is a terrible thing! But of course it was ok for him to leak anything he wished, with no thought for the individuals involved in the leaked stories. Assange - you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Perhaps you shouldn't have started this.

[Edam3000]

Zionist Neo Con arse licker Murray = 0, Mehdi Hasan = 1 :)

[barkingbasher]

Only a man like Murray can save the West.

[orbital92hotmail]

This guy is a weapon. Should be as good as the mighty Hitchens.

[DancinJim]

@orbital92hotmail I first became aware of Murray precisely because of Hitchens. He is Hitchens Jr. in my opinion, politically-speaking!

[topperheartramada]

Europe is in a crisis caused by the dominance of the left. The leftists don't ralise it, but their days are numbered. They are the source of the disease, but their deluded minds are unable to comprehend the symptoms. Unfortunately this opens up space for all sorts of right-wing extremists as well. Hopefully we'll find a way to get rid of both.

[ashken79]

wikileaks shoul;d expose russian kremlin if they are honest.

[Egu022]

If I was a man I'd want to marry Douglas Murray!

[TheSealOfTheRose]

Well done Murray he showed them. As usual no one can out smart him

[211Anon]

Great young man with a good rational head on his shoulders.

[gerardk51]

Douglas Murray is brilliant!

[whitechristian1066]

douglas murray bends over for the zionists! ZIONISM IS A DIRTY EVIL RELIGION! READ the HATE in the ZIONIST TALMUD against (Mary & Jesus) THEN read how the Koran DEFENDS the Virgin Mary & Christ!

[countertreason]

@whitechristian1066 How dumb do you think we are. You are a Muslim calling yourself a `white Christian` and putting stupid Nazi photos on your profile. Despicable, really, that you feel that is your only way of achieving any sort of success.

No white racist (despicable in their own way) would ever go from video to video defending Islam. Just a stupid, lying Muslim. You and yours are the reason why Islam needs to be discussed.

[whitechristian1066]

@countertreason You are an ENEMY of CHRIST! DAVID DUKE! THE ARYAN NATIONS in the USA! KNOW the enemies of MARY & CHRIST are the FUCKING HORNED DEVIL ZIONISTS! I know & KNOW of tens of thousands of WHITE CHRISTIANS & White Muslims that defend Christ! There are MILLIONS of White Christians that KNOW the PROPAGANDA of the DIRTY KIKE MEDIA! I AM THE CLEAN PURE WHITE EUROPEAN & WILL DIE FOR CHRIST! You are a FUCKING CUNT ZIONIST! Fuck your FAKE HOLO-HOAX! Fuck your SIN-a-GOG of SATAN! Fuck Isra-HELL!

[countertreason]

@whitechristian1066 You are not a white Christian and you don`t know `tens of thousands`of them. David Duke is an isolated exception. You are a stupid Muslim, it is obvious because you are barely literate and you go around defending Islam. Cut the white supremacist act, you fucking creep.

[whitechristian1066]

@countertreason I don't give a shit about Islam, only the fact that (they defend mary & jesus) from the INSULTS OF YOU & YOUR DIRTY ZIONISTS FAMILY! You evil zionists dont want to believe that a white christian or a white muslim can both defend christ & the virgin mary. YOU ARE JUST A COMMUNIST NIGGER LOVING ZIONIST CUNT!

[countertreason]

@whitechristian1066 Yah, of course I am. Most of my friends are white, I have had only a few black friends in my life. I am not a Jew. Your just plain factually incorrect in your accusations.

And of course, that is not even considering how fundamentally flawed you are as an individual for speaking that way about Jews and blacks in the first place. Most Yankee Muslims are black. I hope you recognize that.

[jameswb333333]

Murray as ever brilliant, but more to the point, devastating in revealing hypocrisy through the logic of his arguments and his questions. This is the little boy who says the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

[lauraleesmithagain]

When Assange tries desperately to interrupt Murray he shows that he's not confident enough in his own arguments and find's Murray's arguments too strong to go up against... which is why he tries desperately to stop him from speaking.

[monsey3262]

Douglas is right

[jarogehotmail]

@antiwarcampaigner thanks! There are a lot of people, mainly lefties, living in a fantasy world. Its important to be pragmatic, understand history, and know how the world works. People with an agenda like Assange dont do any good for anybody.....

[antiwarcampaigner]

checks and balances in western govs like britain and america?? what about the overiding power of the PM and President to quash convictions of terrorists whom they like or corrupt officials who are their friends? what about Blairs stopping of the investigation into the corruption of UK weapons industry with the Saudi deal. One minute Murray talks about freedom and democracy but yet comes out with this diatribe against the leaking of gov treachery? what a hypocrite!

[antiwarcampaigner]

If I recall correctly Mr Murray is the person who went on the BBC to tell the world that Gaza is not the open prison Cameron proclaimed but a place where there are "luxury shopping malls and olympic sized swimming pools", If such a professional liar is to be lauded by some here as brilliant then that speaks volumes as to the lamentable situation of our society today.

[mattvid00]

Douglas Murray is brilliant. Assange is a nothing, can't even sit and shut up

[CelticAngloPress]

If Juliane Assange has seen the hand of Zionism then I now truely trust him.

Islam is a problem but it was brought on by Zionism amongest many other things

[mojitoking]

Unbelievably blatant attempt at uncovering sources of funding and employees, their secret nature is probably the only thing keeping SOME of them alive. Assange's public outreach is his lifeline. Murray is a tool.

[Redfingers]

Incidentally, one man who is allegedly one of Wikileaks' sources, Bradley Manning, is now in jail serving a prison sentence for a crime for which he was never convicted.

And the public opinion surrounding Wikileaks and Bradley Manning in the place where he is been imprisoned is strongly against both the organization and that person. We have due process and minority rights in the United States for a reason. Without it, all whistleblowers will be jailed without due process.

It is a sad reality.

[Redfingers]

Regarding 11:24

It turns out that Wikileaks' sources of funding have all now distanced themselves from his organization and denied him funding. Also, his web hosts shut his website down such that after the Cablegate release, Wikileaks had to search high and low for a new webhost. These sources are secret because otherwise government pressure will be intolerable.

It turns out that the only member of Wikileaks that has been publicly revealed (Julian Assange) is now in jail.

[TheAsfaloth]

Shame Murray had to derail the debate into personal attacks with no substance, pretty childish, seems he has alot of fanboys though : /

[NaturalBornHedonist]

Douglas Murray is the NEW VOLTAIR, Nietsche and Churchill !!! I hope he will allways have a LEADING role in a FREE thinkers society in the WEST!!!

Douglas Murray for LEADERSHIP !!!

[lisabeaumont]

Well said, TheFrankFactor, couldn't agree more.

[TheFrankFactor]

Murry, another flag sucking loyalist under who's adept oversight, will help to impede the progress of his precious "democracies" by attacking those that expose and hold them accountable. For the record, the voting system whereby citizens "throw out" the lackeys is SHIT in America and if corporate kiss-assers and flag suckers like Murry and the great Rupert Murdoch have their way, will turn your electoral process to SHIT as well if it isn't already.

[Aylesfamily]

So it's true what they have been saying about Assange, this is proof right here

[saady2u]

wat a prick!!! full of vicious ad hominem!!!

[GeorgeNewmanBand]

Russia whistleblower - Alex Navalny. Please get your facts right, Mr Murray.

[jaforyahoo]

u murray is a disgrace......u r a pile of pow...

[Premed1981]

What a bullshit speech full of ad hominem attacks, false anti-semitic quotes, and propaganda.

I'm surprised he didn't attack Assange based on his dance moves in that youtube video as well.

Democracy (which means the "rule of people"), nowadays is a shadow of what a real democracy should be like. It is now the "rule of the few", who keep secrets, spin the truth, use media propaganda, everything in order to be re-elected after usurping power for 4 years through this false political system.

[iMaDeMoN2012]

I love Douglas Murray, I wish he was my boyfriend.

[FascistNews]

Hey SHILLs..... Douglas Murray is bought and paid for my the Red Shields... and hell.. who really knows ... maybe Assaunge is too. But I will say this.... Murray is on the wrong side of the fence... an he needs to just take his paycheck and have a nice cup of shut the F&^K up.

[HalalKafir]

@FascistNews Well spoken for a fascist, my dear FN - yes, someone who doesn't agree with your POV should "have a nice cup of shut the F&^K up."

[82abhilash]

Douglas Murray has some valid points, but Jullian Assange is not the villain he portrays him out to be. Assange also has valid points. And I think overall, it is a good thing to ensure that governments are less secretive. It helps with the accountability. NGOs are different. They do not have monopoly over the use of force that governments do. Their secrecy is about their own affairs, while government secrecy is about the affairs of others.

[IceneBoudicca]

Douglas Murray is phenomenal.

[HalalKafir]

Doug Murray is da bombay!

[FascistNews]

@HalalKafir Shill

[jarogehotmail]

@mrdarkbloom however much damage you think the US and BItain have caused, it pales in comparison to the alternative of US or British inaction? Also, the liberation of hundreds of millions of people in the last century as well as the continued prosperity of those freed peoples is incredible by any historical standard. Assange is a fool for the reason Muray says, democratic peoples elect their governments to do a job, and he is undermining their ability to do that, under the pretense of free spee

[MrDarkbloom]

@jarogehotmail Governments are BY NATURE anti-democratic power centers. Do you not know anything about how society works?

[MrDarkbloom]

Murray is presenting a complete straw man here. Does he say one case where Wikileaks has - in it's entire history - caused any significant 'collatoral' damage? No. The only damage Wikileaks has thankfully caused is to our BY NATURE dishonest and ANTI-DEMOCRATIC governments. How much damage has the British and American governments caused in the world? Assange is a hero. Murrray ends up an apologist for the state.

[OxAO]

When I thought Britain no longer had great speakers along comes Mr. Murray.

Thank you

[peaceratz]

I was hoping to see some good arguments against Assange but Murray just attacks assented personality. Assange's retort is actually quite gracefull. If i had to play god and choose who has the better intent it is certainly Assange.

[sebastian577]

@peaceratz I think it's interesting that you find Assange threating Murray with being sued (8:10) just for pointing out Nick Davies remarks, a "gracefull" retort.

[smurfieboo]

Murray is the substance.

[NACMR]

by the spotlight Assange has put on them - they started running like rats, to hide their buts, that's why it's Chaos that Assange has brought!!! We are not sure about the far reaching implications of Assange's revelations but we've seen that our long history of secrecy has brought us into wars, lies and sufference.

Can Assange bring more sufference than we've had? Than the wars based on lies have brought?

Does Murray have any children or parents who died in a War based on lies

[MrEestimaa]

@NACMR wars always will be at the world ...you think if people know east knows everthing about the west they dont want to kill the west?...sure they want even more .....assange fuels terrorism ...terrorist now can say ..look how bad america is look what wikileaks has shown us ..we must bomb and kill them ...Ps i am no american.

[NACMR]

Murray speaks a lot about nothing, and brings a lot of blurred arguments about nothing, too.

"Are you sure you know what you're doin' .." he sais.

No, Assange is not sure and cannot know what the far reaching implications are, but surely he stopped some abuses by revealing them, surely he changed regimes of dictatorship, as we know, and surely nobody declared that his child died because of leaks. And definitely Governments can complain that a lot of chaos has been brought out?

[BeholdZeus]

"When you introduce documents that were never meant for the public eye" (Murray)

Surely the argument is that all information should be brought to the public eye for the sake of transparency and open government? If ALL governments were open - and they should be, as they are the representatives of the public (a public that expects them to be open), then there should be no problem with ALL documents being placed into the public domain. Leakers appear when governments lie and kill without end.

[jarogehotmail]

Assange is a fool...... Murray is the fucking man

[MrDarkbloom]

@jarogehotmail A fool? Why exactly?

[FascistNews]

@jarogehotmail Shill

[antiwarcampaigner]

@jarogehotmail your comments immediately tell us much about your intellectual abilities. well done, keep it up.

[FascistNews]

IF YOU CANNOT RUN A JUST LOVING EFFICIANT GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE…. THEN YOU AND YOUR KIND NEED TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

THERE WILL BE WISTLEBLOWERS AND THEY WILL MULTIPLY. AND THEY WILL BE THE NEW HONERABLE AND JUST SOULS TO REPLACE YOUR BLACK VOID.

WE WILL KNOW EVERYTHING …. EVREYTHING ABOUT ALL OF YOU…

WE WILL NOT STOP TIL THIS PLANET IS WHOLE AGAIN… WITH OR WITHOUT YOU Mr. Douglas Murray….

[maclauder]

@FascistNews Your caps lock seems to be broken there Skippy

[FascistNews]

@maclauder Sry... just a little excited ....lol

[FascistNews]

HOW DARE YOU STAND THERE IN YOUR SMUGNESS AFTER ALL THE ATROCITIES THE CORPORATE COUNTRES MURDER US WITH DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY…. And you have the gaul to ask Mr. Assange if he knows what is right to RELEASE?

IF YOU AND YOUR MURDEROUS KIND WHERE NOT DOING THESE THINGS THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO REPORT. Your Hypocracy sickens me to no end.

RUN A RESPECTABLE GOVERNMENT LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE DOING AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY WORRIES.

[FascistNews]

get more and more costly…. Well its over. DEMOCRACY is a failed policy. The Republic is a failed Policy. Free Market is a failed Policy…. WE THE PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN you and your kind, Mr. Murray…a multitude of opportunities to make things right…WE HAVE BEEN SOCIALLY, mentally, and economically RAPED BY YOU AND YOUR KIND LONG ENOUGH

YOUR TIME IS DONE. WE WILL HAVE TRANSPERANCY. WE WILL NOT HAVE SECRETS ANY LONGER FOR YOU TO HIDE YOUR MISTAKES….

[FascistNews]

Murray's argument is a good one... If you leave out one important point.... And this point is... For to long have we the people trusted our governments and they have done nothing but send our children of to war after war that HAVE BEEN PROVEN to be ORCHESTRATED FOR CORPORATE PROFIT. For too long have we given the democracy a chance to by electing new officials that sing the same old lies.... and nothing changes..... except.. it dose change... things get worse.... THE LIES GET BIGGER the rip offs

[redfiredragonslayer]

I disagree with Douglas Murray's politics but he is so beguilingly articulate and persuasive.

[MrDarkbloom]

@Wien1938 You expect goverments to just voluntarily be honest and accountable, eh? 

[Wien1938]

@MrDarkbloom

Governments are accountable in parliamentary democracies. To the law and to the elector. I do not subscribe to ideas of fake democracy or the hidden state.

I would take up Mr Murray's point: to whom is Mr Assange accountable for his actions? On what authority does he base the rightness of his actions?

Governments are accountable but also bear great responsibilities. Assange does not bear any responsibility unless we include the nebulous concept of "moral" responsibility.