Inside D&D 4e

[kristofferjo]

I still wont play 4.0 :p

[mtflannery89]

You're obviously an idiot. D&D 4ED has a more efficient rules system so that it can be played faster pace. Also, if you are looking for complexity and deep immersion there are way more character options than any other edition.

[adamx20]

@mtflannery89 It's not my video and no offence intended but you sir are obviously an idiot. The video is a parody, and I think it's funny so I asked if I could post it to YouTube.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@mtflannery89 But it removes the majority of the actual roleplaying options from the players sides. Its closer to just a game now.

And LOL "immersion". "Hey, How can the lich recharge powers by one roll, and why does it only have 3 attacks?"

"How can I create the same type of zombie as in the MM?"

"How come the god is so weak?"

"How am I considered a Archmage when I only blow stuff up?"

"How can I cut tendons only once per day?"

And if by options you mean Lots of nonsensical powers then yes.

[Stairc]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild More imagination lacking. Let's go through this.

1) The recharge rolls represent the ability to wrench back enough energy to use the ability again. Sometimes that takes a long time, sometimes it's fast. Rolls provide the varied nature closer to real life. For 3 attacks, those are the three best ones the lich uses. The others are inferior. It's a mechanical blessing and makes sense.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@Stairc So why cant I do that even when im an archlich?

And Why are they inferior? More choices=Better.

[androkguz]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild You seriously don't get the point. First, as a PC, you're never an archlich. That kind of crap is part of the reason 3.5 is so broken. Then, as a DM, you simply dont need the monster stats to tell you that the lich can kill flowers with a touch, and summon a rat squeleton once per day, and the other 20+ imaginable abilities it would have that you would never need to use in a fight.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@androkguz

The thing is playing an archlich can be fun and interesting. Sure it can be a hassle, but its so cool.

There are roleplay possibilities AND cool powers.

Plus I can simply: NOT use the abilities (Which is a lie, I would summon a squeleton just to save myself a few hits.) at the very worst.

And no. There are like? 3 abilities?

[Stairc]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild Gods weak? Maybe your group makes a level 3 god, but the gods described are usually above level 30 and require secret rituals of immense power to even constrain to a physical form before you can hope to kill it. The gods are enormously powerful.

Maybe you're an unimaginative archmage who only blows things up, but that's your failing. There are many wondrous spells and rituals around. You're just very good at blowing things up.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@Stairc

So why don't they just emediatly crush you? Like i would expect the god of Undeath to just kill you in one hit. Period. Then reanimate you and have you fight your allies. Oh right "Balance" because if the god had actual godlike powers then it wouldn't be "fun". Just being within a 10 mile raduis of a god of undeath would blow you into smithereens and turn you into a ghast.

And I knew you would answer "Rituals". So tell me, what CAN my archmage do with rituals?

[Stairc]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild You can cut tendons once per day because the physical prowess involving the power requires a massive surge of energy and mental discipline to battle the enemy back and then deliver the perfect blow without leaving yourself open to a fatal counter. You draw upon the martial powersource which is a type of energy in its own right - not unlike the other powersources (which is why high level fighters can perform super-human feats) this of martial power is an exhausting daily.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@Stairc AKA Dragonball Z BS.

Let me ask again: It takes GODLIKE skill to cut tendons once per day? Do athletes work like that?

I can cut tendons a hundred times per day. Its not hard. Grab a knife and stab the wound. I understand you would get tired after a while, but it doesn't end up working like that. We are not talking about "You can Do an extra 1D6 damage ith your attacks, but after 3 rounds of doing so you get tired condition". Its " I stab wound once".

[Stairc]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild If the enemy is standing still and not trying to defend yourself, you're golden. However, trying to precisely sever someone's tendons without getting hit in the process and getting through ARMOR while doing it and they're trying to dodge is a wee bit harder. I certainly agree though that many Daily powers make more or less sense than others. They made a lot of powers, some won't be as well conceived. But some powers like that are not evidence that the whole system is unreal

[androkguz]

@TheInsaneSchoolchil It's said that there's 3 main things people look for RPGs. Depending on what they look for, some people could be called gamist, narrativist or simulationist. The gamist looks for a game that is a fair challenge of the mind and where they have fun. The narrativist looks for an interesting story, one to be remembered. The simulationist, on the other hand, wants a representation of what real life would be.

[androkguz]

@androkguz The 3 things CANNOT be satisfied at the same time, and 4E sacrifices the simulationist side in favor of the best for gamist and narrativist in its history. You clearly are a simulationist since you want rules that perfectly describe every detail of every monster and also need every abstraction spelled out for you as with the martial dailies and the recharge rolls.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@androkguz I agree. I just get kinda "Grr YOUR WRONG IM WRIGHT LOLOL" sometimes.

Just 4e was such a jarring dash from its originals.

[rual40]

@mtflannery89 no, 4th is a quick and easy way to play, you want immersion and complexity, try 3.5 or better yet, my 3.5 overhaul rule set, making the game seriously complex and immersive (but played at a glacial pace)

[Stairc]

Yes! More complicated, convoluted games with higher learning curves so that my friends keep getting disoriented and don't want to pick it up! We all know that building amazing dungeons, stories, NPCs, plots and adventures isn't really what DnD is about. It's about spending half an hour figuring out how to grapple a troll. Join me in calling for more complicated systems so we can spend hours more tracking spell totals instead of RPing and adventuring in the game!

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@Stairc Yep D&D is about playing with nonsense powers instead of being able to Roleplay.

[Stairc]

@TheInsaneSchoolchild *laughs* It's a shame you don't have much imagination. DnD leaves freedom open for roleplaying however you want - instead of restricting it by telling you exactly how to do it. The rules structure is for how you interact with the world.

[TheInsaneSchoolchild]

@Stairc I want to play a necromancer.

"uhh um...Il reflavour some summoning rules and we will use that one spell from the Dragon magizine......"

[Evological]

I don't get the comparison of 4e to WoW. It's just an overused meme that people regurgitate to fit in with each other. It's just like how WoW players insist that every other MMO is a WoW copy. Seriously there are multiple versions of DnD just play what you like. I love 4e, and it's my favorite. You might hate it. Play what you like.

[rual40]

...perfict

[skinny3600]

Last january i was new to D&D and knew absolutley nothing.

I was going to buy 4e until by coincidence I read reviews about how it basically dumbed down the game, Which caused me to buy the 3rd ED (Shocking grasp nerf in 3.5 = lame)

[jewishninja13]

I seriously can't see how 4e=WoW. It has no MMO components at all.

[yusufsheth]

hahaaahahaahhaa

[DungeonsItalia]

You know when u get bored by D&D3.5 edition and say "let's play Vampires"? Well, I REALLY HOPE kids will grow up and say "let's play the adult version"

[okkedulle]

lol this guy is lying so hard its funny dnd 4th edition aka join the WoW pen and paper

[tyleratthegates]

D&D 4e is fucking awesome. there will always be those old farts against change. dont listen to these fools! 4th edition is amazing,

[joshuavillwo]

"Within the fist week, they've memorized their first incantation to Orcus!" #LOL

[cycophile]

"check" lol that about says it all there

[metalpnx]

If you want to play a grown up D&D play ad&d 2e. 3rd edition is for kinder gardeners! blha blha blha i here the same thing every time a new edition comes out.

[xxsmilingkittenxx]

@metalpnx 2e was really horrible. And most D&D players would agree

[metalpnx]

@xxsmilingkittenxx yup most D&D players would agree but no ad&d players would.

[orioneriksen]

@metalpnx I agree. I play every version of the game, and it seems everyone goes crazy and starts to hate the new one. If they really meant it, we would all play 1e.

[SamuraiFilmCritic]

I am chuckling with laughter over the irony and sarcasm of this video. It is an excellent tongue in cheek STAB at the Hasbro-run marketing and influence of 4th Edition D&D. While 3.5 Edition D&D had developed some problems in being cumbersome (partially the fault of WOTC), it still had the high fantasy feel of the original D&D. 4th Edition is nothing but a weak attempt to makeover a good tabletop social game, into a non-stop video game fighting simulation. Two Thumbs down on 4th Edition.

[ZachariasClub]

from what i can tell, that is what 4th edition is like (this being dramatized of coures) i mean, have you seen the dwarf? half elf? elf? its like disney!

[firedark347]

Kind Flayer? What exactly does he do? Water your flowers in your garden? LOL!

[basf12456]

Fantastic

[Leeroy002]

1:53 ha ha ha .

1, 2, 3, 4 thats the way we count the orc out across the battle map with his gear and heavy axe

1, 2, 3, 4 thats the way we count d4's when we use our dagger to eviscerate him two by two

1, 2, 3, 4 thats the way we count the horde when we loot the bloody corpse after slaying Mister Orc.

[nkollack]

horde= gold

[achicklol]

LOLOLOLOL. i love you guys!

[heroes756]

idk i like 4e but i really cant say that bcos ive never tried the other editions, i just started (Im DM) a few months ago and the books I found were 4e. I don't think its too bad, but like I said, I havent tried the other editions.

[ZachariasClub]

the later editions are good for learning, but you should try ad&d first edition.

[byebye121]

Lies all of us at TG h8 4E it's dumb'ed down

[minivergur]

rofl

[thewaterbear]

Even as an avid supporter of 4E, I must concede that this video was both well written, and fucking hilarious.

Well done!

[MhicWombat]

Ah, if only 4e were this good! :-D

[darthspeaks]

I'm sticking to 3E for now. 4E went and made it for 5 year olds. Why - oh - why - did they have to make equipment a moot point!? That WAS the point of many games! Loot mattered! Armor mattered! Weapons mattered! Why???

[tinathefatlard0]

i think you have the argument backwards....wasnt d&d always about roleplaying? lots of peopl ei hear seem to think this one centers around epic gear also....well whatever, i always thought the game was about roleplaying...4th edition seems to give more time for that if you ask me, no more cluttered, imbalanced rules.

[escape6666]

It was, now is just hank n slash

[davidsfriend01]

@tinathefatlard0 Totally agree. I want a rule book to tell me how to resolve a combat action, not how to interact with npc's and other pc's. 4e put roleplaying back in the hands of the roleplayers. if all people can see is the combat mechanics, they arent looking in the right place. The books provide the arbitrary rules, the players bring the playing.

[davidsfriend01]

@darthspeaks Loot mattered? I thought the game mattered. Eactly how many slashing weapons that do 1d8 damage do you need? How many different ways can you name and detail platemail? Your imagination is what makes it different. Heaps and heaps of suppliments cant hide that fact that each one had its version of a longsword, all with different names and very similar stats.

[thecookiethieves]

This is the best

[cuchulainkevin]

Wow, that looks Glee-maxy fun.

Why not sell the game on its merits instead "uber-cool" in-jokes?

[Lia365]

what the last man said

[Ryskar]

FUCKING CASUUUUAALLLLS!

4.0 faggotry aside, this video is great. :3

[FRAvenger]

Man this is great stuff.

[kellystone84]

4e is for retards. Rules make for less conflict and for more order.

[tylr44]

I havn't played D&D yet im currently buying 4e well becauset is the only addition in the barnes and noble i can find i plan to start a group soon and you r right it is overly simplefied

[adamx20]

I am sorry for you. They tell me it's so much different that it needed a whole new system, I tell them - No way! Aside from the HP buffs (it's times 4, seriously), and the enhanced Damage dies (I am guessing it's just up one D notch ie. d4 to d6), the only real difference is the lack of Skills and Feats and the now "Powers".

It really is the same game if you want it to be.

[jamesalbis]

@adamx20 i have tried playing 4th ed with my friend just a test game.. and it was awesome... actually it doesn't seem to be changed... al the things you will notice that changed is the powers, rituals and stuff... they say it's not role playing game anymore.. more on just like hack and slash thingy... at first that was what we thought... but after trying it first hand it wasn't that bad.. reading rules are minimized so playing is continues... more fun on playing than reading...

[adamx20]

@jamesalbis I think that was the biggest argument for some. PC powers are a lot like the icons on an MMORPG icon bar. You click icon / use power.

The change to reading reduction was in high demand, but I think the direction was not well received by many. Also, part of the reduction of reading should just come from the fact that it is a game ... not an extension of life. Unfortunate how rules jockies love to read the rules.

[jamesalbis]

@adamx20 well yeah.. your right on that part... oh by the way... do you know a site where i can download a pdf file of dm curtain cover? there's no store here in my country... dnd is quite underground here actually... stupid people fear the urban legend of dnd... so do you know any site where i can download a dm curtain cover? :) I'm going to create a game this week...

[HarshDiscipline]

@tylr44 ebay

[bluegoblin75]

Gary Gygax must be turning over in his fucking grave! They took an awesome system (3.5e) and totally shit on it! The whole 4e system is crap! They dumbed-up the entire sytem it seems to better fit the younger, more stupid crowd I believe! Fucking pathetic-ass version of D&D. 3.5 RULES! 4e sucks donkey-balls, end of story.

[adamx20]

You know, I have noticed a lot of death happening over at Wizards of the Coast. I think like 3 people have died over there this year. And shortly after they decided to end Gleemax and focus on M:tG and DDI, one of the developers for DDI gets shot by her husband who then commits suicide.

Did something fucked up happen over there?

[jamesalbis]

@adamx20 really? reality bites i guess...

[8BitStar]

Gary Gygax had nothing to do with 3.5. In fact, the last edition Gygax worked on was AD&D First Edition... and he considered THAT a mistake. Gygax left TSR before 2e came out and was never part of WOTC.

4e is meant for a younger, more stupid crowd? Funny, I hear people say the same about 3e, and I heard it about 2e, and I'm pretty sure somebody said it about 1e at some point too.

[bluegoblin75]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I actually accepted 3e with open arms and I still game 2nd edition as well. I think it (3.5e) is a great system, and should have been left alone. 4e on the other hand is a mockery of the game.

[bluegoblin75]

As far is Gary is concerned, I actually worked with the old guy, for many years in fact, and he was NOT happy at all in where his game was going. Before you start making judgments about people, their opinions, and the actual truth, get your facts straight sir. It never was about the money with the old-man, it was about having fun and hanging out with your friends. The downward spiral started when TSR got taken over, which GG never got over.

[bluegoblin75]

Hey, I believe in change as much as the next guy you fucking moron, but to completely reverse what the whole feel and meaning of D&D just to satiate younger, well--let's just say the ADHD crowd--and hook them in to start gaming? Its' not worth it. If I wanted to play WARCRAFT, I'd go online...

[8BitStar]

Why did Youtube just send me four notices that my comment had gotten a response.. and all four comments were from the same guy and each was totally different? Do you have four personalities or something?

[bluegoblin75]

Hey Moron, get with the program will you! It was the same letter, I just cut it up due to space limitations on the response. Go out and find a grilfriend or something. Good-gravy! Your like a turd that wont flush. Go away!

[8BitStar]

Who needs a girlfriend? I can get the same level of abuse just talking to you.

[bluegoblin75]

So, what do you do there at home in Butt-fuck Iowa? Live in mommy's basement? Wait til' she leaves to the supermarket so you can really get some "quality time" in with your pics of Legolas? Stay off the boards you dickless piece of shit! No one wants you here! Your worthless, idiotic comebacks are sad and tired, give up!

[8BitStar]

With all those sexual references, any casual observer would think you're trying to say something...

[8BitStar]

Seriously dumbass, what's your problem? All I said was that Gygax wasn't involved with later editions of the game and that every edition since OD&D has been meant to dumb it down in some way, which is also true--AD&D was meant to streamline the game for tournaments. 2e was meant to make it more PC and remove Gygax's influence. 3e was meant to appeal to computer gamers. You can find proof of all of this--including statements from the man himself--all over the internet.

[8BitStar]

So seriously, you might want to try a little thing called "thinking" before you go flying off the handle and flaming everyone like the socially inept and retarded troll you probably are.

[bluegoblin75]

Your no-good, you can't fight back. I have nothing further to say, so keep on writing sonny-jim--knowing what I know about you so far, you probably will leave anther scintillating, controversial and "witty comeback, won't you? hahaha...sad.

[8BitStar]

And so it ends. "Blah blah I'm just going to throw a lot of random flames out there and hope they make sense." That's winning a flamewar the bluegoblin75 way!

Only problem with that method is that what works on those seven-year-olds you rape doesn't work on grown men. But then again, you probably don't know much about grown men (or grown women), do you?

[bluegoblin75]

Wow! Is my precious little girl angry? Is it getting you hot? Are you gonna cry? Go on, cry for me baby-diapers, cry like the little bitch you are! Lemme some some tears sonny-jim! Is a lump growing in your throat? Come on precious, cry for me!

[bluegoblin75]

Its' funny that you should mention rape sonny-jim...is there something you wanna talk about? Did a naughty uncle slip under your covers at some point? Or perhaps a little forbidden fun with the local Catholic priest? Hahahah its' just to easy with limp-dicks like you!

[bluegoblin75]

I suppose it comes down to this; there comes a point when an author, inventor, etc. of something beautiful must face the facts that change is coming, usually in the form of some no-talent hack kidnapping his idea and remaking it for the newer generation. This usually involves a great deal of loss of potency from the original creation, which is sad but true. It doesn't mean in the least that he/she (the original creator) has to love the change or embrace it, but he must accept that it is here.

[jamesalbis]

@8BitStar you're right on that... people is just to hard to satisfy... :)

[kansaikanadian]

@bluegoblin75

If they don't start making money off the franchise by pulling in a younger crowd there will be no DnD in given time.

[Evological]

@bluegoblin75

3.5 is cumbersome. Roll a 20 for a crit, but hey roll again to confirm it. Stupid. 4e is by far the best DnD ever. EVER.

[CalicoVall]

@Evological Then go back to 4th grade and learn MATH!!

[Evological]

@CalicoVall

Chill out man, it's a fucking game. Nothing wrong with stating my "opinion."  Play what you like. I'm sorry you take it so seriously as to insult people over it. I'll go back to 4th grade and learn math and you can go back to kindergarten and learn manners. Cheers

[CalicoVall]

@Evological LOL I know it's a game. If it's not that big of a deal, then you shouldn't be that bent out of shape when someone who's played since 2nd ed tells you it's a crapy MMORPG version of D&D.

My main complaints are with how they've made the HP totals 4x what they were before while only raising damage up one die. As well as giving fighters 'magical' attacks and all characters being able to pull healing spells out of their asses breaks the RP out and leaves only the game.

[shagoosty]

@bluegoblin75 You know that Gygax had nothing to do with 3.5 right?

[jat470]

I think I just heard Jack Chick's head exploding.

[adamx20]

Who f'ing cares about Jack Chick? Jesus on Wheels? Skateboarder Jesus? Jesus, the guy that was born a jew and told all of the jews off?

[jamesalbis]

@adamx20 who is jack chicks anyway? :)

[skulay]

I have played 3.0 & 3.5 ed

Sadly, 4.0 sucks!!!

They made it too simple and ballanced that it is retarded.

They threw out all that was good in 3rd as well as some of the bad to make something that feels like playing WOW & Warhmmer! >:-S

[adamx20]

I am working on Open Source RPG. The main reason is to give players from every version a chance to play on the same table. Maybe you want to check it out at Knowledge Arcana.

(I can't post links)

[EldradWolfsbane]

That is funny!

Actually 4th is great!

[swordplusone]

That is funny as hell. "King me!" ROFL

[adamx20]

I can't tell you too much right now, but I can tell you ... It's this ball!

The best!!