a christian friend?! (1 of 5)

[HashyBee]

TfP is an asshole.

Deep down, his a sanctimonious jerk.

Listen to his subtext when it comes to gay marriage...... I'm surprised you like him.

[PencilsAreAwesome]

His "subtext"?

Can't he outright oppose gay marriage if he wishes? Isn't he entitled to his views?

[HashyBee]

Yes.

But his views are an excellent indication that he's a sanctimonious asshole :)

[ehhhhhhhhhh]

Perfect example of how having a diverse set of viewpoints is not only healthy but necessary.

[dandiacal]

Nikki, I think a lot of this depends on where you live. I have as many friends who are non believers or atheists as believers of various kinds, and I think this must be a difference between Boston and Seattle. I'm loving the deadpan humor of these videos. Keep it up.

[xy11xy]

Well, the contrast between you two will spark conversation. If you're alike..what's there to talk about?

[bgammill]

You've gained weight haven't you.

[Cerdocabeza]

what's up with the jacket ?

[cszponce]

New videos!  Whoo! About time... :-)

[TigerKerouac]

OK... I'm ready to watch these videos.  But just as a pre-watching comment.... oh my god girl... you have surrounded yourself. I have a sinking feeling of doom for you. Either you are desperate to be 'won over', or you just like to put yourself into impossible situations so you can really fight.

[theogore]

Just the first video in this series and "Jack" exemplifies most xians I know - smug, politely congenial, and constantly making cracks about others shortcomings and mistakes. Whereas Atheist Nikki is evenhanded, logical and very careful to make sure she is not being judgemental.

Just an observation.

[rozeboosje]

Tis an astute observation

[DuragonLeMente]

If you need help with Sony Vegas just ask. :3

[rozeboosje]

Nikki,

If you think that I have a problem with Jack because he is CHRISTIAN you are sadly mistaken.

I have a problem with Jack because he condemns me.

Ask him to deny it. And don't fall for the "I don't condemn him, he's condemning himself" bullshit either.

Most of my friends are Christians too (IRL).

Jack posted a comment on one of my videos declaring unequivocally that he felt it was right and just that I should suffer eternally after I died. Enough said.

[DuragonLeMente]

Okay so Jack is condemning you to Hell. Point being?

People are not always going to see eye to eye on every single subject. If we did Gods just shoot me now 'cause that would be boring as all hell. x.x;

[rozeboosje]

Point is: somebody who thinks it's right that the people he wants to open a "dialogue" with should suffer eternally cannot be a real friend no matter how much he pretends to be.

That my issue with Jack would have something to do with the fact that Jack is a "Christian" as is being insinuated in this video is a bare faced lie, and I am appalled at the fact that FaFF lent herself to perpetuating this. That's why I felt the need to respond here.

[rozeboosje]

I would urge Nikki (Nicky? - sorry, not sure about the spelling) to ask Jack what he would do in the following scenario: Jack and Nicky arrive at the pearly gates. Nicky has remained an atheist until the day she died.

Is Jack going to be a gentleman and hold open the door for her, or is he going to stand idly by while his "God" slams it shut in her face?

Ask Jack that question. Wait for his response. And then ask yourself: how can this man be a true friend.

[DuragonLeMente]

OKay I'll try and hop into the Christian mind set for a moment and see if I can justify this theory.

While I agree with you that someone who believes that someone else should suffer eternally is just plane creepy one could argue that he dosn't wish for anyone to by sent to hell but he understands why they must.

A law is a law and when someone brakes it, even though I don't believe breaking a finite law should result in infinite punishment, one should be punished no? cont.~

[DuragonLeMente]

Granted I don't believe in heaven or hell I do understand the concept of the Christian spiritual law system and they are entitled to believe in it as long as it doesn't involve my happy ass directly.

Sadly I'm a little out of the loop so I'm not sure what you meant by your second statement thus I cannot make a reply to it. ^~^;

[rozeboosje]

Sure, and I'm not saying that Jack isn't entitled to believe this crap. Just realise that in his mind all of it is REAL, and he agrees with it all. He is entitled to believe in it. Thankfully it is all bullshit. But he really should stop pretending that he is such a "nice guy".

[DuragonLeMente]

This is true, when you think about Christianity from an objective standpoint can any of them be nice people to outsiders?

Of course that's if you view them by their religion which in the long run would get you squat.

I'm not exactly a fan of Christianity {past experience} but I know that not to judge them by their beliefs. Many a Christian can be rather nice and fun to be around regardless of their or your beliefs.

[rozeboosje]

> can any of them be nice people to outsiders?

I have quite a lot of Christian friends, especially In Real Life. They simply don't adhere to their beliefs in a strict, dogmatic fashion. I don't know HOW they do it, or whether according to the literal interpretation of their bible they are kidding themselves, it really doesn't matter to me. But they do NOT condemn me, and that is all that is important from where I am standing. Whether there is substance to their beliefs or not, meh. ;-)

[DuragonLeMente]

Forgive me if my wording is a bit off but it's 4am and I'm sleepy. ~.~

So they treat you as a friend yes? While they have their beliefs they do not spout them around you because they enjoy your company. I would assume this is why Jack and Nicky get along. {blind assumption}

Now I would assume he doesn't know you as well {again blind assumption} so he isn't as inclined to hold back those beliefs.

But of course it's late and my analyzing skills are spotty at best so I could be wrong.

[rozeboosje]

I'm actually married to a Christian, and she is quite devout. We have discussed this extensively, and the way she sees it it's not about what you believe in, but how you relate to others, regardless of what you may or may not believe in. The times I spoke with other Christians about this they gave me a similar explanation.

[rozeboosje]

> he dosn't wish for anyone to by sent to hell

Ah - yes. But that is why I asked him specifically whether he thought it was RIGHT and JUST that I should suffer eternally, whether I DESERVED it. And he unequivocally confirmed this.

[DuragonLeMente]

Now did you confirm that he himself believes this or that his religion rules state that it must happen this way?

[rozeboosje]

He confirmed it himself.

[DuragonLeMente]

o.o

Wow....Okay yeah Jack is just a bit twisted. I'll have to ask him about this one day.

[rozeboosje]

watch?v=7mtU9zPh9v0

Out of the horse's mouth:

"Yes, I think it's right for the Creator of the universe to judge you and your rebellion against Him and to allow you to suffer in your own sinfulness as you stand in eternity void of His presence."

Check the comments.

[DuragonLeMente]

I thought as much.

"I think it's right for the Creator of the universe to judge you"

I would somewhat think this way as well if I was in his place.

I'll use the most retarded nerdling analogy I can throw together in ten seconds.

Take World of Warcraft.

The Admins{god} spent a lot of time and effort on creating the world and all of the things in it including you.

He wants it to stay a good world so he installs some rules into the server so the users {us} can follow them and have fun cont.~

[DuragonLeMente]

without causing too much mischief.

Then a hacker{sin} comes along and acts like a humming bird hopped up on cappuccino fucking with the system and teaching others how to fuck with the system.

Soon it gets to be so bad that the world is no longer fun for anyone and the Admin{god} is forced to start all over.

Quite pissed about this his IP bans the user from every game the Admin is in control of forcing them to not only lose their lvl60 dark mage but cont.~

[DuragonLeMente]

You also never get the chance to play the game ever again. {punishment/hell}

Some would find this just while others who where like the hacker believed it would be more fun to mess with the world. Thus people get banned over and over for rule breaking until the Admins say "Fuck it! Game over for everyone bitches!" and shut down the servers. {end of world}

Wow I need to lay off the coffee early in the morning o.o;

[rozeboosje]

The analogy fails on a number of accounts:

The hacker doesn't just "come along" like he would in a WoW world, the admin creates the world AND everything in it, including the hacker. God then decides to punish the hacker for being the way he was created by ... God.

I have addressed this, and similar arguments in several videos addressed to Jack.

[rozeboosje]

The admin is also omniscient: he creates the hacker, AND he knows exactly what the hacker is like.

Then later on when it comes to punishing the hacker, it's not good enough for the Admin to just get rid of the hacker, he decides to keep it running eternally in an infinite loop of torment. Now it's getting positively nasty.

Alternatively: (more...)

[rozeboosje]

he created the "hacker" with "free will" to see what would happen, but with the proviso that the hacker should develop into what the admin wants him to develop into. That alternative shows the admin as a selfish bastard.

The hacker, in the mean time is just being himself, and more over he sees no evidence suggesting the admin even exists. Other users, however, keep telling him that there is an admin and he's going to torment him forever. Then they tell him they want to be his "friend".

lolwut?

[DuragonLeMente]

I understand completely and I agree, the idea of God or some omnipotent being sending you or I to an eternity of fire and poking is sadistic to the (insert large number here) power.

I was simply showing how Christianity or any theistic belief would try and rationalize the unseen creator or God doing this. Do I agree with it? Of course not and if God is real and what his sheeple say he dose is true, I have a size 15 boot primed and ready for his buttocks. >:3

[rozeboosje]

LOL

Excellent.

[DuragonLeMente]

Hehe glad you think so xD

So in the end my thinking is this; While what some people would consider the "typical Christian" meaning people like Yokeup and VFX whom have the most face time, they are simply the minority and even amongst their own kind are considered outsiders. {poor poor VFX, now he'll never get laid. ;( }

The kinder of the bunch which is actually the majority while they still believe in the Bible and may believe you'll go to hell, they choose not to voice this view.

[rozeboosje]

No, I honestly think that the majority of Christians think "hell" (or any other form of eternal suffering) is a bit of an outdated notion and they don't take it seriously at all. If they did they would have to condemn not only atheists like me (us?), but all Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists... too. They know they cannot morally justify this and so they re-evaluate their beliefs, whilst not abandoning them, but by abandoning the condemnation aspect of it.

I respect that.

[DuragonLeMente]

Yes you can count it as "us."

If what you say is true then there is hope for the human race yet. I admit during my time as a Christian I still had friends of other faiths and I just couldn't accept that they would be going to hell.

I'm hoping the idea of Hell will someday have it's home only in the realm of fiction like Dante's work or that other European writer that came just before him. {forgot his name}

[rozeboosje]

Yup. I, myself was brought up as a Catholic, and I never could make sense of it. The death blow came when it hit home to me that there were so many different people of different faiths, and whilst at most one of those faiths could represent "truth" there was absolutely NOTHING I could think of that would suggest it just happened to be mine, and then it occurred to me that in fact they could ALL be mistaken. And that was the end of that.

[frisbeesANDflipflops]

very good "hacker/ admin" analogy

[frisbeesANDflipflops]

"I am appalled at the fact that FaFF lent herself to perpetuating this. That's why I felt the need to respond here"

hey rozeboosje- sorry if i misrepresented you in any way. perhaps i should revisit the videos you did on the subject, but that was the general message i got from them. when i get home, i'll be sure to add links to your videos in annotations so people can see your words for themselves and hopefully clear up any unintended misrepresentation.

ps- it's "nikki" : )

[rozeboosje]

Thanks Nikki. It's ok. Thanks for acknowledging my comments. That means a lot. All is forgiven :P

[ThOXeS]

Back and alive. awesome. Take care

[Thereminator101]

Glad to see your alive and in moving, avoided a tragedy of biblical proportion! : )

[ragetony]

The reason you guys talk about Xcian things a lot is that he is trying to convert you. It would be his greatest accomplishment, no mater what he says. He believes you are going to hell if you don't take Jesus as your lord and savior. He is Youth Pastor.

If you 2 can still make it work as friends. Good for you guys.

[mma171]

If I didn't have Christian friends I wouldn't have any friends because I don't know any atheist in real life. One of the things you have to deal with living in the rural deep south.

[TheNakedAtheist]

I understand Jacks notions of hell aren't mainstream, he apparently tries to convince himself that hell = not getting to go to paradise, and I know Jack would say "I can't

know the mind of god, so I can't say anyone will go to hell", which in my opinion is a cop out.

That being said I'm curious what DO YOU THINK about the fact that Jack worships a god who's instruction manual, despite jacks attempts to distance himself from the idea, does say you're going to hell? (cont)

[TheNakedAtheist]

(cont)

I'm friendly with "Christians", and have family members who are Christians, BUT they are those wishy washy "Christians" who are part of that 52% of American "Christians" who say Christianity isn't the only path to heaven (pew research poll). They all believe that simply being a good person is enough.

I can understand being a friend of a "Christian" with that opinion, but not someone who holds the opinions Jack does.

[rozeboosje]

> he apparently tries to convince himself that hell = not getting to go to paradise

Not getting to paradise isn't enough for Jack - I've asked him outright in the past: why wouldn't it be enough for him to think that I simply get what I expect, after I die: nothing. The end. All over.

No answer.

I have no problem with him thinking he is going to go to some kind of "paradise" when I am not. My problem with him is that he feels it's necessary that I should then suffer, forever.

[legendre007]

Cool. Your meeting togetherforpeace is like "Superman Meets Batman," except, in your case, Superman and Batman strongly disagree about religion. ;-)

[frisbeesANDflipflops]

haha- awesome : p

[LeafInTheStream]

I'm disappointed to hear you say that you're intimidated by the great videos made by the likes of philhellenes (it rhymes with "beans", BTW). However fabulous he is, it seems to me you have two things that Phil doesn't:

1. a first-person perspective on being an adult theist

2. freckles

These are real contributions. Please keep making vids!

[frisbeesANDflipflops]

i kept wondering how exactly to pronounce it. oh well, next time.

and thanks for the encouragement : )

[CousinoMacul]

LOL! It's deja vu all over again. :-)

You're not retarded if you can get the 1st video up before videos 2-5. ;-)

Also, as I said on Jack's video, saying that "Mostly I'm retarded" is highly offensive to the handicapped. You should have said "Mostly, I'm christian" then everything would have been fine. :-P

[frisbeesANDflipflops]

har har : )