Защо "каракачаните" носят това турско име като се вижда че са старо Българско племе "балканци" и нямат нищо общо с китайците- салджуци / огузи татари - които ги водят за основатели на Мюсюлманската империя преди 630год.!?!
Българи са - Богове/богини/елини каквото означават думите - местни жители но Ура-АраАрияБългария - "Балканския" полуостров. Не са никакви крадци - гърци / семити които заграбиха южна България когато избягаха от Египет и онищожиха Елада - Велика България!!!
παιδια εγω δεν ειμαι σαρακατσανης,ουτε βλαχος,ειμαι αρβανιτης,δεν ακουω τους κουλτουροκουμουνες που θελουν να διαλυσουν την ελλαδα,το αιμα νερο δεν γινεται,ειμαστε ελληνες και ελληνες θα μεινουμε.ολιο εμεις μαζι πολεμησαμε και πεθαναμε για τα πατρια εδαφη.τα κουλτουροκουμουνια απλος σαπουνι,τα σεβη μου ελληνες.
Ws arxaiologos-istorikos& SARAKATSANA me o,ti ereunes anaskafikes i meletes pou exw kanei ena einai to apotelesma kathe fora : Oi Saraktsanoi einai oi katharoaimoi tis Elladas!Gia tous allous pou exoun parei ena troparoi oti einai Ellines kai klain main mia sumbouli exw na dwsw...DIAVASTE SWSTA TIN ISTORIA!Eiste ekxristianismenoi kai oxi Ellines...Mi trelathoume kiolas!
@mandarkgirl Μια ζωή στο δρόμο, μια ζωή ταξίδι. Να μη ριζώνουν πουθενά. Mε σκεπή τον ουρανό και συντροφιά τα άστρα. Ερωτευμένοι με τη φύση. Ελεύθεροι και ανυπότακτοι. Σαρακατσάνοι.
@NotioSellas etssiiii eimasteeee emeis oi sarakatsanoi....vevaia egw eimai 16 xronwn..aalaa paw sto xwriom koda sta agrafa kathe xrono..xwris revma kai nero vrisi...mono ap to potami..!!!!!!
@MrPrezak etsi reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee asrprorema agrafwn reeee sarakatsanoi gia mia zoi tha eimaste...!!!!to lew kai eimai perifanos kai eima akm 17.!!!!
sarakatsani or karakatsani, the most ancient people in europe. the first Greeks! we are not vlachs or thracians. we are Greeks 100% and we never spoke any other language exceptc the Greek one! furthermore, we are one of very few Greek tribes who use ancient greek words of the Homeric era, before the clasical era of Greece!
ΟΙ ΠΡΟΓΟΝΟΙ ΜΑΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΠΟΥ ΜΕ ΤΗΝ ΑΛΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΟΛΗΣ ΤΟ 1453 ΦΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΤΟ ΜΑΥΡΟ ΠΕΝΘΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΕΦΥΓΑΝ ΑΠΟ ΤΗΝ ΚΩΝ/ΠΟΛΗ ΣΤΑ ΒΟΥΝΑ ΓΙΑ ΝΑ ΜΗ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΗΣΟΥΝΕ ΟΘΩΜΑΝΙΚΗ ΕΞΟΥΣΙΑ ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΕ ΣΚΟΠΟ ΝΑ ΟΡΓΑΝΩΘΟΥΝΕ ΝΑ ΠΟΛΕΜΙΣΟΥΝΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑ ΤΗΣ ΠΑΤΡΙΔΑΣ!!!!!!!!!
ΚΑΙ ΓΙΑ ΑΥΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑΣΤΗΚΑΝ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΟΘΩΜΑΝΟΥΣ ΚΑΡΑ-ΚΑΤΣΑΝ ΠΟΥ ΣΗΜΑΙΝΕΙ ΜΑΥΡΟΙ ΦΥΓΑΔΕΣ. (ΜΑΥΡΟΙ ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΠΕΝΘΟΣ ΠΟΥ ΦΟΡΟΥΣΑΝΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΛΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΟΛΗΣ). ΚΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΝΕΩΤΕΡΗ ΠΑΡΑΦΘΟΡΑ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΙΔΙΟΥΣ.. ΣΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΙ!!!
o pateras m einai sarakatsanos...!!!!!parolo p paw kathe rono ston topo m...to asprorema...tha ithela na zousa ekei...kserw pws einai pl diskolo..alla tha dn sigrinetai i skatozoi stin a8ina..me tin zoi sto topo s.....
Listen,as Oceania said it would be a proof that sarakatsanoi are not Greeks if they wouldn't spoken the Greek language.I am a sarakatsanos and i inform you that my grandparents and the parents of them never but never used a foreign word.I have some Vlachs friends and i have listen their grandparents talking to them with a different language,but not comfuse Sarakatsanoi with Vlachs.Also many heroes from the Greek revoluton against Turks were Sarakatsanoi,as Karaiskakis and Katsantonis...
Is posible that sarakatsanoi were vlachs who in time adopted only greek language. Sarakatsani is similar with romanian word "saracaceni" wich it mean "poor people" so they might have vlachs origins.
I am a so called "vlach" ... we call our selves "Armanji" ... (well .. at least those who consider themselves vlachs ) ... And we are not Greeks or Romanians or others ... We Are ARMANJI !
Also read up on their dialect of Greek... along with Pontic, it may be the oldest form of Greek still spoken... Encyclopedia of world cultures - Page 223
by David Levinson, Paul Hockings, Timothy J O'Leary
Sarakatsanoi are NOT at all of Vlach origin. They are native Greek speakers from the mountains of Northern Greece. This is a fact. They have similarities with the Vlachs of Greece, but they are not Vlachs. Read Greece and the Balkans: identities, perceptions and cultural encounters ... - Page 127
is the vlach with the sarakatsanoi complexe still making his propaganda? :D ...sometimes i smile and i have to be carefull not to laugh loud out because of his vlachomania :D
you can write all you want about all sorts of stuff that cross your mind, its obvious just by looking at 1 video with Vlachs and 1video with Saracacieni that they were one and the same. Every single item you see in the photos is Vlach.
Is thrue but is also thrue that you had some dictatures like Metaxa and military junta, in this dictatures the minorities were havely persecuted and the greek people havely indoctrinated.
ADiamandi - it doesn't matter what you say, I have living proof - my grandmum is still alive.
Also, the Greek nation wasn't wealthy enough to enforce the Sarakatsanoi to alter their traditions, what makes you so sure they could make them think they were Greeks?
If the various groups of people under the empires traded amongst themselves, ofcourse they'd dress the same.
Even Turks now wear European clothes and have Latin alphabet, but they still speak Turkish.
yep texts can be altered, stones can be chopped, language and relegion enforced. Sarakatsanoi whatever they do they point out to their older Vlach origin, and as quickly most Vlachs in Greece are loosing their language, how will one differentiate between the make-believe Greek shepards?
Your theories are you own - I know your biased and I see your anti-hellenic retoric without any credibility.
But that's cool.
I have my own proof and that's good enough for me - my ancestors were too poor to be educated yet they spoke Greek, not because of any communist regime like you have in Romania.
Nothing was enforced, that wasn't accepted by the people - there was no TV nor radio station to remind my ancestors who they were
No, we in Romania, we encourage all minorities, to express themselves , Greeks too. Sarakatsanoi are the proof to what extent Greece has gone to assimilate other ethnicities.
ADiamandi, you say that: "..Greeks are mean idiots that everyone hates". Well then, why don't you go out and enjoy the company of people who are of the race you enjoy?? We exist and we are proud to be Greeks. It's not our fault, God made us this way. Go out now and make some friends of your favourite race and leave us alone!! Bye!!
Another thing, ADiamandi, clothes might have been shared amongst various groups of people, because of trade. How do you know? Because I wear nike and I hear americans wear nike, it doesn't mean I am american. Sarakatsanika songs, ethima, cultural traditions, dances are different to that of the Vlachs. Ancient Macedonians wore different helmets to the Epiroteans and even Acarnanians, yet they all spoke the same dialect. So, ineffect, clothes don't make the person.
No man, in Greece ONLY Vlachs and Saraktasanoi wear the same clothes. The songs are virtually yhe same, and especially the shepard longing music, which like the Aromanian one, is linked to the Romanian one.
They don't wear the same - they use different symbols.
Did you know that the Vlachs were set up along the routes of the Roman roads?
They were from the Roman soldiers?
Did you know that the Eastern Roman empire flourished into a Greek empire since it was on the backbone of the Macedonian empire (greek was already the language of trade).
The funny thing is that the Sarakatsanoi of GREECE are the MOST PATRIOTIC of all the GREEKS, even of the Athenians.
The Eastern Roman Empire just adopted a Greek language, for its Latin speaking subjects were the majority of its populus up to the modern times.
Vlachs were set on all mountins from the Vlashka region of Czech Rep, and the Tatra of Poland up to 100 km close to Athens. The Eastern Alps, home of Istro-Vlasi, Tatra mountins, home of the Goral Vlachs, the Carpathians , home of the Vahi, Rodopi, Pindus other Vlachs.
Doesn't matter - because if all Sarakatsanoi - uneducated from the mountains turn and say - I am Greek let's kick out the Turks and form a nation, I have to respect that.
There's nothing you can do, with your anti-hellenism but accept it.
Turkey is formed by many Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Kurds all thinking they are Turks.
IF they say they are Turks, speak Turkish and pray to Allah, I have to accept that.
We are Sarakatsanoi of Greece - We want to be Greeks - get over it.
Even if the Sarakatsanoi are leftovers of the Roman soldiers just like the Vlachs, that leaves them with over 2000 years saying they are Greeks - ZHTO o ELLINISMO.
as old Vlachs in Greece agree, they were Vlachs. "Ellenismo" is built on the back of many ethnicities. It is a chauvinistic environment, I would compare on a smaller scale to the Russian assimilation history.
ADiamandi, thinks he's anti-hellenic attitude is justified. He then justifies his racism against Greeks simply because of the Sarakatsanoi declaring themselves Greek. What is your problem??? Why stop with the Greeks? Why don't you find fault in The French who are nationalistic also, or the Romanians, or FYRoMians, or Bulgarians. You have an agenda dear Sir, it's obvious. Just state it and move on.
u say that an goverment can force people (wich are poor and uneducatet )to belive what the goverment wants...why didnt they let the vlachs belive that they are greeks then? and only us? and that also would mean that 80% of the brainwashed mainstream populations in the world are all poor and uneducatet? how can it be then that our people keept away from political issues all the time before returning back to greek mainstream? and even before that concidered them selfes greek?...
Because, ADiamandi thinks that Greek govt was rich enough after independence to set up TV as a propaganda tool...oh, sorry that's FYRoM. Oh, maybe because he thinks that Greeks were created by the English....oh, but weren't they supporting the Turks in the TurkoRussian wars?? Oh, well, I guess I have no idea what he is on about, accept that he's anti-hellenism, he thinks is justified!
ah ok but u also realise that similar things can came also because of close ways of lifestyle?!..both are half nomads ...how it comes that genetic sientist tell that we have greek dna ? ...how can it be that we always concideret our selfes as greeks? throu the ages?...how it cames if i look to my fathers face and in to the mirrow i notice an greek looking?...how it comes that we weared black clothes because of the fall of konstantinopolis?.
The bulgarians Karacachans identify themselves as Hellenes (Greeks) and there was no propaganda by the Bulagrian govt to support this. The Bulgarian govt is trying to associate them with the ancient Thracians. Vlahoi have roman words in their language. The Sarakatsanoi were studied by foreigners and Greeks, they found them to be Greek. Now is vlachoi married into Sarakatsanoi or vice versa in some regions, that's another thing. You generalisations about all sarakatsanoi are not true.
who says that Sarakatsanoi are non greeks just got no glue about it or just makes propaganda...and what do u mean when u say "vlach looking" ? ...do u mean the clothes? the art of life ?...the people?..i guess u are such an ignorant..but comon tell about i would wish to laugh a bit...and i also hope that u know that in the sarakatsanoi dialect are many greek archaic words who didnt even survive in the mainstream greek language etc etc my sarakatdanoi part of family also only spoke greek!
Vlach looking, a Vlach face, anthropologically studied in Athens and descirbed as pre-Mediteraneean and alike other in N Macedonia and Romania.
The art of life, the clothes too.
Vlach language also has ancient Greek words, just because the Vlachs language was not standardised, and the Vlachs are probably as old a ancient Greeks.
ABOUT ADiamandi - he is racist and is using theories also used by Risto Stefov a racist Skopjean, FYRoMian that writes unscientific papers based on proapaganda. The theory that Greeks are african is one such propaganda. Read "Not Out Of Africa" by M lefkowitz to understand where this propaganda is coming from. Too many wantobes trying to sound intelligent without one thread of evidence for anything. Adiamandi, is here to remind us that people can say whatever racist things they want on the net.
First of all do understand that us, NON-Greeks do not understand Greek histeria regarding FYROM or the Republic of Macedonia. It all looks sick, and all this agitation on the Greek part shows any non-conaisseur that the truth lies very far from the Greek side.
This vid depicts people that look Vlach (not Egiptian/Ethiopian like many Greeks), sing Vlach tunes, wear Vlach, live Vlach, do Vlach stuff in Vlach places and only since the XIX th century are first recorded as a Greek speaking tribe.
In Bulgaria they still refer to eachother as "Vlachs". In Albania there are still Vlach speaking peaople that say they're Sarakaceani.
My family are sarakatsanoi too and they NEVER spoke any other language than Greek = FACT. ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!! Never forget your roots - too many Balkan countries are jealous of any nation with ancient lineage. Greeks are still culturally connected to the ancient Greeks and genetically proven also, which explains why others are jealous of them.
Sarkatsanaio are tribeof greek nomads that literally fought back and forth across the borders of several countries during Ottoman occupation, thier songs are distinct because of thier being nomads , They only sang and danced during Easter and at weddings having no set church this is how they did it for hundreds of years, All true Sarakatsan songs and dances were never had instraments playing along with them, instraments were introduced in the early part of the 20 century
Instraments were introduced in the early part of the 20 century as a result of them coming down outta the mountains in the 30's They are a fiercly religious people and even though they crossed borders over the last few hundred years in order to escape the turks, they have always remained greek!!
You want us to belive that people dressing up Vlach, singing Vlach songs, living in Vlach places, having "calive" houses and basicly doing the same things, ARE NOT VLACH?
Greeks do not look like VLachs, do not live in cold places and are generally mean idiots everybody hates
You're just a boring racist that doesn't want to listen to anyone but yourself. Greeks are a very old group of people that included: Minoans, Myceneans, Some Hellenised Thracians, Pontians, Asia Minor Greeks, Italian Greek settlers, Macedonians, Epirotes, Thessaliotes, Acarnanians, Aetolians, Athenians, Aegean Greeks too. Get over yourself. We don't care what you think of Greeks! Go to another site and reiterate your propaganda there. ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!! THEOS, PATRIDA and KRATOS +.
ADiamandi - Greeks LIVED in the mountains!! EVEN the Islands are mountains in the ocean!!! You are not very clever. ALSO Greece is a VERY Mountainous country - so mountains are EVERYWHERE. Another thing, if Greeks are all immigrant africans - how and why are they speaking Greek and not albanian or african????? You're hate for Greece is JEALOUSY. Go to a PRIEST and get over your sin of JEALOUSY. May God help you. CHRIST HAS RISEN!! +
ADiamandi, you say that: "..Greeks are mean idiots that everyone hates". Well then, why don't you go out and enjoy the company of people who are of the race you enjoy?? We exist and we are proud to be Greeks. It's not our fault, God made us this way. Go out now and make some friends of your favourite race and leave us alone!! Bye!!
min asxolise mazi tou apo roumania ine kai malista kathisterimenos se xora pou ine 80% vouno tha mas pei o malakas oti i ellines den zoun se vouna ktlp
I'm from FYRO(Macedonia), my grandmother was sarakatsana also my mother, I'm too.They are no vachs,no nowdays greeks they have rooths of antique greeks and one of clearest "pure" nations real greeks non mixed.And even I leave here i feel this in my blood and I;m happy for it :)
Here in FYRO-Macedonia leave aprox. 3000 sarakatsans-greeks but no one tall about this fact.We have own association here and very little backing of Greece goverment for his own minority.We still take a visa for Greece???
Greeks do not have roots to antique roots, Athena when OTTO came was filled with Albanians and the rest of smaller Greece was filled with Afrikan imigrants.
You contradict yourself. Why would African immigrants speak Greek??Greeks still culturally and historically and linguistically connected. So, we can still read and understand ancient Greek. Get over it. All nations can be proud of themselves, we are Greek and proud too, just like Romanians are proud of themselves. Go out and be happy about being yourself by yourself.
They would speak Greek thanks to 2000 year old church backup and the pride to belong to the ancient Greek nation. It is what made generations of Vlachs, Slavs, Albanians to lie dead under tombstones with Greek writing. Thanks to this entusiasm towards a culture they wished to beong to, although they didn't underestand theirs was as worth while. The builders of Kalambaka monasteries and the arched bridges everywhere in the Balkans didn't need to identify to a Hellen race to be respected.
The Sarakatsanoi might have mingled with them in some regions,
but did you know that the Saraktsanoi of different areas wear different clothes
BUT all speak a DORIAN dialect that Athens doesn't teach?
You already explained that you are anti-hellenic, but I can't change my history for your agenda or anyone elses.
Even if the Sarakatsanoi are leftovers of the Roman soldiers just like the Vlachs, that leaves them with over 2000 years saying they are Greeks - ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!!
Hello, yes Sarakatsanoi are NOT vlachs - proven by anthropologists WITH credentials. Good to hear you guys still know your roots. I wish Greece could help you guys, but FYRoM says there are no Greek minorities in their country so I guess it's hard to get assistance. Kali Tyxoi kai XRISTOS ANESTH!!!
Placed on exactly the same spots, identical to the detail except the later embracing Greek but not everywhere and not mentioned as the remarcable Greek tribe they are supposed to be before XIX century, looking the same in the mirror (anthropologicly backed by courtesy of Greek Aris Poulianos). Shall I continue? Your only arguments are what you consider yourselves to be, ok, that doensn't mean your ancestors felt the same.
I think you're very biased and you don't pay attention - my dad's family are sarakatsaneoi and they weren't allies to the Greeks - they always spoke Greek and could trace their lineage. You are obvious trying to de-hellenise them to suit you're own propaganda. Sarakatsaneoi did not join the Greeks - they were Greek. Vlachs are different and yes some have confused the two - but anthro studies proved that they were not the same tribes.
and by the way i am sarakatsanoi my famaly comes from paralimnion (serres) ...so maybe you first invisigate a bit more before you tell that non sense ADiamandi
The Saracaci(ts)ani (amongst themselves with a distinct Vlach sound and not ending with Greek -oi). The Vlach origin has many adepts, and not only in the XX century Romanian literate writings of Aromanians, and the researched findings in Albania. Sarkatsani were first mentioned in the XIX-th century with the rise of nationalism and the proposterous Megali Idea. How come? Probably because before that they were not individualised as a tribe, they were just considered Vlach and ignored.
Sarakatsaneoi were given their name - because they were the "fleeing" black wearers - see their costumes. Like the Karagouna of Thessaly. Vlachs are Roman leftovers. Many Sarakatsaneoi joined the freedom fighters of Greece - that's why they came to the foreground. They spoke Greek as far back as they were ever recorded - despite the name given to them, but they are not the same as Vlachs.
So, you've studied ALL The sarakatsanoi and ALL the ones that didn't mix with vlach groups due to marriage and you are sure that ALL sarakatsanoi are trully non-greeks? You're the one with a Megali Idea.
You can't force uneducated people in the mountains to say they are one thing when they are not. And how do we know where the term came from? It may have been stuck to all people regardless of their true ethnicity.
a state CAN force uneducated and poor people to become what they were not. Vlachs didn't mix, and sarakatsanoi too, seeing as how this is yet again a tipical Vlach trait.
I have told you before that the state can't reach the Sarakatsanoi or Karacachans of Bulgaria who despite Bulgarian govt declare themselves of GReek heritage. My ancestors were NOT oppressed people, They SPOKE Greek and nothing else. They knew who were Vlachs and did not identify themselves as such. You come across as a propagandist, whereas I have family history to support my claims. My father has spoken to Vlachs of Greece and they are not Sarakatsanoi.
I find you, ADiamandi contradict yourself in your statements. Vlachs you say are as old as Greeks and probably Greeks, then you say you are sick of this 100% Greek attitude we have about the Sarakatsanoi. What are you trying to say?? The Sarakatsanoi may be wearing wrist watches today made in switzerland, but they are not Swiss. Clothes or lifestyle can't prove much, but language and culture does. If the Sarakatsanoi speak Greek and identify as Greeks, there's nothing you can do but accept it.
Nope never said that Vlachs were Greeks, quite the contrary, if you can look at a Serbian and at a Romanian and may not always get it right, looking at (A)Romanians and Greeks it is easy to tell apart. So are Sarakatsanoi strikingly , if you wish, Thracian looking.
the culture is Vlach, fot the customs are all Vlach, shepards with a croock, with pastoral Vlach words, for the Greek language didn't have theese words. Songs that have Vlach adressing motives, a Vlach longing sound, and self calling themselves "Vlahi" in Bulgaria, some still speaking Vlach in Albania. You say Greek islands are mountaineous, man have you been to Vermion, or to Grammos, only Vlachs lived there.
Doesn't mean you know what you're talking about either.
I look like a Georgian - two arms, two legs, white, but I am not Georgian.
I do not speak their language, even if we both were addidas.
We both eat potatoes and live in houses and if I marry a Georgian I might move there, but I am still not a Georgian.
If Vlachs are in Greece for 2000 and speak Greek to locals but use their own language at home and if they say they are Greek Vlachs, I cannot do anything but accept it.
1. they say they are Vlachs, I've never heard Greek Vlach in all the places I've been in Greece talking to them, cause it's a worthless combination of 2 different things. Would I call a magyar in my country Romanian Hungarian?
2. Vlachs are in their own mountaneous regions, that have been anexed by Greece quite late in history without much demographic back-up.
"Katakouzinos II, Procopius, and Kasomoulis state that before the advent of the Ottomans in southeastern Europe, Greek-speaking Greeks only lived in the coastal cities of Epirus and Aetoloakarnania, and that the remaining people who resided in the mountains were Arvanitovlachs"
Funny also, because the theory is that Sarakatsanoi are from the Epirotean regions.
But anyhow - I see you believe in your conspiracy theory.
I know for a fact that Romania is a controlling country - I have a friend that came from there - she told me what the nation was like under your communist regime.
Now I understand why you suspect the Greek nation.
Then why do Sarakatsanoi have to lose their Greek identity to suit you or anyone else?
Greece wasn't created by Foreign forces - if that was the case - Brittain would not have sided with the Turks in the Turko-Russian wars to protect their route to India.
Also, why did the French support the Turks against the Greeks in 1920s, if we were a created state?
Also, why did the Germans ally with the Turks in the early 19th century if they wanted to "create" Greece.
ADiamandi what you are telling is complete non sense...Vlachs are not Sarakatsanoi...read a bit more and you will find out...only thing is that some pseudo educated ppl think they are similar because of they both were living half nomad lifes as nomads you life under some explecit conditions...it would be the same if i tell only because americans & India travel to the moon they are similiar...total non sense grap a book my advice to you
Well, if Vlachs are not Sarakatsanoi, why do you say they are? Why do you contradict yourself?? What about the Sarakatsanoi of FYRoM, Bulgaria and Albania that say they are Greek???
The Greek State is the one with an agenda, and it carries on with it although the European Comunity warned about human rights violations concerning Vlachs and all other minorities.
And Yes I have been to places you describe as beeing inhabited by Greek shepards, i have only found Vlach ones speaking a dialect language of Romanian and some Albanian. In FYROM there is virtually no Greek minority, and in Bulgaria the Vlachs around Sofia and in Rodopi are heralded as Sarakatsanoi.
people inhabiting the same places, wearing the exact patterns since forever, having the same ancient simbols, the same ocupation (although all other Greek are very much different) speak completely distinct languages (the Sarakatsen still preserving some old 100% Vlach terms) and thus one is Greek Greek and the other Greek Vlach (as you so much like to say :) ).
Ανεξάρτητα από τις μετακινήσεις τους και τον εναλλασσόμενο τόπο διαμονής τους έχουν τα ίδια ήθη και έθιμα και κυρίως μιλούν την ίδια γλώσσα, την Ελληνική, απαλλαγμένη από ξένα στοιχεία, αναλλοίωτη, που φέρει τα χαρακτηριστικά γνωρίσματα της δωρικής διαλέκτου.
these people are vlach all the way and also a perfect exemple of assimiliation into the greek curent,like the arvanites and the future vlach=sheperd= fully greek in the near future.I bet in 50 years in Greece will exist only greeks,but will be funny for the future generations to explain why some of their countrymen are muslims
Adiamandi you probably have never even spoken to a sarakatsanos. I am a Sarakatsanos myself(father and mother are Sarakatsanoi). I know hundrends of Sarakatsanoi from all over Greece, Bulgaria and Fyrom. Never, ever heard of any Sarakatsanos claiming that we have Aromanian roots. Do not confuse vlachs with the Aromanian people. All shepherds in Greece were called vlachs. Sarakatsanoi too. Sarakatsanoi only spoke Greek and this well proven.
man I'm not the one with an agenda, what agenda can you have when Vlach speakers in Greece are probably the most ageing cultural and national group of Europe, their average age would be 60.
Yes I have Vlachs and Albanian Epirotes to blaim for helping create a state that doesn't reflect the hopes they had.
I meant to write to ADiamandi that Sarakatsanoi has also been explained to have come from Karakacan meaning black wearing (mourning) people on the run (nomadic). So everyone has there own theories. But it's obvious they affiliated with the Greeks despite Bulgar or any other nations propaganda.
Sarakatsanoi live in Abania too where many of them speak Vlach, the Vlachs in Greece also claim that Sarakatsanoi used to speak Vlach, and their way of life and folclore, the places they live and even their own name reflect a Vlach heritage.
Vlachs, Sarakatsanoi, even Vlachs of ROmania (Romanians) joined the fight for liberation as allies of Greece. It was a liberation fight more than it was a national Greek fight.
The vlachs may have latin roots and may have been introduced during the roman empire, but the sarakatsanoi are not vlachs, despite people confusing the two. Even the bulgarian sarakatsanoi have greek lineage.
No, georgeellas, I do not claim that Saracacani came from somewhere else, but the Greeks on their lands did, from the South and from the breakaway Ottoman empire. Saracaciani are the living example of what will happen to all the Vlachs of artificial Greece if Greece continues to supress its minorities. Nice folclore, but the ugly language doesn't fit it.
All Vlachs I spoke to in Greece agree that Sarakatsanoi used to speak Vlach.
Why don't you ask the sarakatsanoi? My family were sarakatsanoi and spoke Greek as far as their clan recalls even though they were not educated. They fled south to avoid the turks.
Greece is artificial as any other nation on the planet.
Hey Diamandi the sarakatsan were nomads that fought through the mountains and across the bordersof bulgaria albania and as far up as Romania, Nomads yes but Greeks none the less true sarakatsan came outta of the mountains the early part of the last century, they dont claim to come from any certain place since their towns were destroyed by the Outtoman turks, so do yourself a favor and shut yer mouth so people just think yer Stupid, instead of opening it and proving them right LOL!!
yep, you might be right about the image of the Greek in the Romanian folclore. It is a bad one especially related to the Greek clergy. This image is shared by other ethnicities in the Balkans. Unfortunately one cannot distinguish clearly that the "Greeks" that wandered to the N were ethnic Greeks. The traders were in their majority Vlach that used the Greek language in their bussiness as a sign of prestige. That was until the Greek language began beeing enforced, with the Megali Ideea era.
yep, succes, you benefited from the Turkish empire, and from as you well say dispersed small pockets of real Greeks you managed to bring about a nation. The Alb town of Athens, the Vlach and Alb Epir, the Vlach Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, the Slav North. Unfortunatelly to be fair to all the different people that helped bring Greece to the level of a nation one has to pay up: institutions and rights for all the minorities of Greece.
So they don't end up like Sarakatsanoi, a fake Greek people.
Vlachs were genetically tested and found to be linked to the populations they live amongst - there was no difference no matter what nation - they now belong to those nations they live in.
The Greeks did not benefit from the Turkish Empire - we lost Pontus and Asia Minor.
We benefitted from the Turks??? Say that to the thousands of GReeks that were persecuted. Tell that to the Armenians that also died.
If sarakatsanoi are fake - go to another site, no one cares for your opinions.
Well Then if all these people are suppressed in Greece, who is then free and why do they all speak Greek?
Greece was NOT under a communist regime like ROMANIA, FYROM and ALBANIA, these people were always FREE to go wherever they wanted to.
This is also WHY Greeks are spread all over the globe - but still want to speak Greek and teach it to their children, despite the country they are in.
You're communist censorship will not quieten us. We are FREE and we are what we claim to be.
In 2008 Albania, amongst other groups, there are people who call themselves saracacieni (grik Sarakatsanoi). They speak Vlach and they came from Saracu (grick Sirakou). Wonder why the ones in the "Greek Democracy" only speak Greak now.
in bulgaria they speak greek to and they identify themselfs as greek , and the sarakatsani have never spoken vlach i dont know where you get this stuff from and thats why sarakatsani dont identify with vlachs plus vlachs are greeks to so where do you want to get with this?
Wonder why you keep pushing the sarakatsanoi (which also means - black wearing chased people in turkish) were vlachs?? Perhaps you're the one other with an agenda. Why did many sarakatsanoi join the Greek revolution if they were vlachs????? You have many sarakatsanoi to blame for the Greek nation.
Sorry - but what about the Sarakatsanoi that don't speak Vlach, never have and never identified as anything but Greek despite being uneducated? You're the one with an agenda and you already shown your anti-hellenic attitude in previous post
My anti-hellenic atittude is justified by witnessing this complete bullshit about a 100% Greek tribe that is virtually different to all other Greek traits except language but the same in everything else with Vlachs. I do accept the fact that theese people got "hellenised" all the way, but don't rubb away the history.
Who are you to tell anyone that they are 100% Greek and refer to it as bullshit. I am sick of your denying my ancestory aswell. How do you know Vlachs and Sarakatsanoi are the same??? What are you comparing it on, when the Vlachis in Greece Dance differently, Dress differently, only lifestyle of nomadic ways was similar. But Indians were nomadic too, are we claiming connection? no.
Защо "каракачаните" носят това турско име като се вижда че са старо Българско племе "балканци" и нямат нищо общо с китайците- салджуци / огузи татари - които ги водят за основатели на Мюсюлманската империя преди 630год.!?!
Българи са - Богове/богини/елини каквото означават думите - местни жители но Ура-АраАрияБългария - "Балканския" полуостров. Не са никакви крадци - гърци / семити които заграбиха южна България когато избягаха от Египет и онищожиха Елада - Велика България!!!
diyandobrev 1 year ago
@diyandobrev lol kante naytsu teu glypostu mauna?A nau-xybavoto obatse e tse nukou ne te razbura!!!hahahahahahahahahaha tapanar...
faceoff744 7 months ago
παιδια εγω δεν ειμαι σαρακατσανης,ουτε βλαχος,ειμαι αρβανιτης,δεν ακουω τους κουλτουροκουμουνες που θελουν να διαλυσουν την ελλαδα,το αιμα νερο δεν γινεται,ειμαστε ελληνες και ελληνες θα μεινουμε.ολιο εμεις μαζι πολεμησαμε και πεθαναμε για τα πατρια εδαφη.τα κουλτουροκουμουνια απλος σαπουνι,τα σεβη μου ελληνες.
MrGiannispapadopoulo 1 year ago 6
This has been flagged as spam show
otan akouw Sarakatsaneous na milane einai san na akouw Tzoumerkiwtes!
Na ste kala aderfia Sarakatsaneoi! Giorgos Ramiotis Tzoumerka _NEW York
Ramiotis64 1 year ago
Sarakatsanoi..H arxaioterh kai polyplithesteri ellhnikh fulh..
Apogonoi twn arxaiwn Dwriaiawn..Anypotaktoi..Oi megalyteroi exthroi twn Tourkwn..Karaiskakhs Katsantwnhs k.a...
RANDOR789 1 year ago 2
Ws arxaiologos-istorikos& SARAKATSANA me o,ti ereunes anaskafikes i meletes pou exw kanei ena einai to apotelesma kathe fora : Oi Saraktsanoi einai oi katharoaimoi tis Elladas!Gia tous allous pou exoun parei ena troparoi oti einai Ellines kai klain main mia sumbouli exw na dwsw...DIAVASTE SWSTA TIN ISTORIA!Eiste ekxristianismenoi kai oxi Ellines...Mi trelathoume kiolas!
mandarkgirl 1 year ago
@mandarkgirl Kai ego apo sarakatsanous!!! Zhto o Ellinismos!!!
Oceania2000 1 year ago
@mandarkgirl pesta xrusostome
NotioSellas 1 year ago
@mandarkgirl Μια ζωή στο δρόμο, μια ζωή ταξίδι. Να μη ριζώνουν πουθενά. Mε σκεπή τον ουρανό και συντροφιά τα άστρα. Ερωτευμένοι με τη φύση. Ελεύθεροι και ανυπότακτοι. Σαρακατσάνοι.
NotioSellas 1 year ago 2
@NotioSellas etssiiii eimasteeee emeis oi sarakatsanoi....vevaia egw eimai 16 xronwn..aalaa paw sto xwriom koda sta agrafa kathe xrono..xwris revma kai nero vrisi...mono ap to potami..!!!!!!
MrPrezak 1 year ago
@MrPrezak etsi reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee asrprorema agrafwn reeee sarakatsanoi gia mia zoi tha eimaste...!!!!to lew kai eimai perifanos kai eima akm 17.!!!!
MrPrezak 6 months ago
Kalimera ! I have old Arvanites Ancestors and I feel Myself close to the Music and Balkans.
Please Is there an Arvanites museum somewhere or on Internet ?
At the begining the red and black artifact is wonderful !
Well if I understand well Arvanites used to live in actual northern Greece and southern Albania with an albanian language (Tosk).
Hopefully Arvanites Culture is still available and Music provide Peace between Peoples.
Italoceltics 1 year ago
sarakatsani or karakatsani, the most ancient people in europe. the first Greeks! we are not vlachs or thracians. we are Greeks 100% and we never spoke any other language exceptc the Greek one! furthermore, we are one of very few Greek tribes who use ancient greek words of the Homeric era, before the clasical era of Greece!
Long live the Greek nation!
kryptia1980 1 year ago
ρε τι λενε κατι ξενοι εδω μεσα οτι οι σαρακατσανοι δεν ειναι ελληνες;; οι σαρακατσανοι ειναι οι μονοι στην ελλαδα που ειναι σιγουρα 100% ελληνες!!
dmsxxx 2 years ago
ΟΙ ΠΡΟΓΟΝΟΙ ΜΑΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΠΟΥ ΜΕ ΤΗΝ ΑΛΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΟΛΗΣ ΤΟ 1453 ΦΟΡΕΣΑΝ ΤΟ ΜΑΥΡΟ ΠΕΝΘΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΕΦΥΓΑΝ ΑΠΟ ΤΗΝ ΚΩΝ/ΠΟΛΗ ΣΤΑ ΒΟΥΝΑ ΓΙΑ ΝΑ ΜΗ ΠΡΟΣΚΥΝΗΣΟΥΝΕ ΟΘΩΜΑΝΙΚΗ ΕΞΟΥΣΙΑ ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΕ ΣΚΟΠΟ ΝΑ ΟΡΓΑΝΩΘΟΥΝΕ ΝΑ ΠΟΛΕΜΙΣΟΥΝΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑ ΤΗΣ ΠΑΤΡΙΔΑΣ!!!!!!!!!
kostikas31 1 year ago
ΚΑΙ ΓΙΑ ΑΥΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑΣΤΗΚΑΝ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΟΘΩΜΑΝΟΥΣ ΚΑΡΑ-ΚΑΤΣΑΝ ΠΟΥ ΣΗΜΑΙΝΕΙ ΜΑΥΡΟΙ ΦΥΓΑΔΕΣ. (ΜΑΥΡΟΙ ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΠΕΝΘΟΣ ΠΟΥ ΦΟΡΟΥΣΑΝΕ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΛΩΣΗ ΤΗΣ ΠΟΛΗΣ). ΚΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΙ ΚΑΙ ΝΕΩΤΕΡΗ ΠΑΡΑΦΘΟΡΑ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥΣ ΙΔΙΟΥΣ.. ΣΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΙ!!!
kostikas31 1 year ago
ΘΑ ΜΟΥ ΕΠΙΤΡΕΨΕΙΣ ΟΜΩΣ ΝΑ ΣΟΥ ΠΩ ΟΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΩΣ ΣΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΣ ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΩΣ ΠΟΝΤΙΟΣ ΕΙΜΑΙ 10000000% ΕΛΛΗΝΑΣ.!!! :)
kostikas31 1 year ago
ΟΙ ΠΑΠΟΥΔΕΣ ΜΟΥ ΗΤΑΝ ΑΠΟ ΤΑ ΑΓΡΑΦΑ ΚΑΙ ΕΝΑΣ ΠΡΟΠΑΠΠΟΣ ΜΑΣ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΗΤΑΝ ΣΤΟ ΑΣΚΕΡΙ ΤΟΥ ΚΑΡΑΪΣΚΑΚΗ.
kostikas31 1 year ago
ΣΑΡΑΚΑΤΣΑΝΟΥΣ ΘΑ ΣΥΝΑΝΤΗΣΕΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΗΝ ΘΡΑΚΗ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΗΝ ΒΟΡΕΙΑ ΘΡΑΚΗ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΙΣ ΣΕΡΡΕΣ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΑ ΑΓΡΑΦΑ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΗΝ ΘΕΣΠΡΩΤΙΑ ΤΗΣ ΗΠΕΙΡΟΥ.....
kostikas31 1 year ago
zito h ELLAS
Kapetangkikas 2 years ago 2
zito to elliniko ethnos.zito oi sarakatsanoi!
ksekiste tous anthellines kai tous propagandistes.tipota na min menei anapantito. anasa na min paroun ta miasmata!
kryptia1980 2 years ago
o pateras m einai sarakatsanos...!!!!!parolo p paw kathe rono ston topo m...to asprorema...tha ithela na zousa ekei...kserw pws einai pl diskolo..alla tha dn sigrinetai i skatozoi stin a8ina..me tin zoi sto topo s.....
MrPrezak 2 years ago
Listen,as Oceania said it would be a proof that sarakatsanoi are not Greeks if they wouldn't spoken the Greek language.I am a sarakatsanos and i inform you that my grandparents and the parents of them never but never used a foreign word.I have some Vlachs friends and i have listen their grandparents talking to them with a different language,but not comfuse Sarakatsanoi with Vlachs.Also many heroes from the Greek revoluton against Turks were Sarakatsanoi,as Karaiskakis and Katsantonis...
calotzero 2 years ago 14
Is posible that sarakatsanoi were vlachs who in time adopted only greek language. Sarakatsani is similar with romanian word "saracaceni" wich it mean "poor people" so they might have vlachs origins.
Probyzantinum 2 years ago
I am a so called "vlach" ... we call our selves "Armanji" ... (well .. at least those who consider themselves vlachs ) ... And we are not Greeks or Romanians or others ... We Are ARMANJI !
S'baneadz Armanamea !
georgikamakedonu 2 years ago
Also read up on their dialect of Greek... along with Pontic, it may be the oldest form of Greek still spoken... Encyclopedia of world cultures - Page 223
by David Levinson, Paul Hockings, Timothy J O'Leary
chicagogeorge 2 years ago 4
Sarakatsanoi are NOT at all of Vlach origin. They are native Greek speakers from the mountains of Northern Greece. This is a fact. They have similarities with the Vlachs of Greece, but they are not Vlachs. Read Greece and the Balkans: identities, perceptions and cultural encounters ... - Page 127
chicagogeorge 2 years ago 2
is the vlach with the sarakatsanoi complexe still making his propaganda? :D ...sometimes i smile and i have to be carefull not to laugh loud out because of his vlachomania :D
RedDeadRevolva 2 years ago
you can write all you want about all sorts of stuff that cross your mind, its obvious just by looking at 1 video with Vlachs and 1video with Saracacieni that they were one and the same. Every single item you see in the photos is Vlach.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
You are not even considering the language or the what each group states free from oppressive.
Greece isn't like Romania - we weren't under a communist regime were our opinions were dictated to us like in Romania, FYROM and Albania.
Oceania2000 2 years ago 2
Is thrue but is also thrue that you had some dictatures like Metaxa and military junta, in this dictatures the minorities were havely persecuted and the greek people havely indoctrinated.
Probyzantinum 2 years ago
ADiamandi - it doesn't matter what you say, I have living proof - my grandmum is still alive.
Also, the Greek nation wasn't wealthy enough to enforce the Sarakatsanoi to alter their traditions, what makes you so sure they could make them think they were Greeks?
If the various groups of people under the empires traded amongst themselves, ofcourse they'd dress the same.
Even Turks now wear European clothes and have Latin alphabet, but they still speak Turkish.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
yep texts can be altered, stones can be chopped, language and relegion enforced. Sarakatsanoi whatever they do they point out to their older Vlach origin, and as quickly most Vlachs in Greece are loosing their language, how will one differentiate between the make-believe Greek shepards?
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Yes, exactly - just like I said:
Your theories are you own - I know your biased and I see your anti-hellenic retoric without any credibility.
But that's cool.
I have my own proof and that's good enough for me - my ancestors were too poor to be educated yet they spoke Greek, not because of any communist regime like you have in Romania.
Nothing was enforced, that wasn't accepted by the people - there was no TV nor radio station to remind my ancestors who they were
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ADiamandi -Romania is just a superficial country too. They are left over Romans.
So what?
We are ALL from Noah's sons races anyhow.
Even if I speak with a Romanian in the US that has been there for four generations and they say: I am American.
They speak American but look like Romanians, I will accept that they are Americans.
If you can't accept that anyone in Greece could be actually Greek OR that they honestly want to be Greek, then you are the one with the problem.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
No, we in Romania, we encourage all minorities, to express themselves , Greeks too. Sarakatsanoi are the proof to what extent Greece has gone to assimilate other ethnicities.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Wrong they are not.
My family are Sarakatsanoi - you are speaking with a Sarakatsanoi - my great grandfathers and mothers spoke GReek.
An ancient Greek lecturer spoke with my grandmother and was surprised that she used words from Ancient Greeks that is not taught in Schools.
My grandmother only went up to year 4 primary school.
You are biased
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ADiamandi, you say that: "..Greeks are mean idiots that everyone hates". Well then, why don't you go out and enjoy the company of people who are of the race you enjoy?? We exist and we are proud to be Greeks. It's not our fault, God made us this way. Go out now and make some friends of your favourite race and leave us alone!! Bye!!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Another thing, ADiamandi, clothes might have been shared amongst various groups of people, because of trade. How do you know? Because I wear nike and I hear americans wear nike, it doesn't mean I am american. Sarakatsanika songs, ethima, cultural traditions, dances are different to that of the Vlachs. Ancient Macedonians wore different helmets to the Epiroteans and even Acarnanians, yet they all spoke the same dialect. So, ineffect, clothes don't make the person.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
No man, in Greece ONLY Vlachs and Saraktasanoi wear the same clothes. The songs are virtually yhe same, and especially the shepard longing music, which like the Aromanian one, is linked to the Romanian one.
ADiamandi 2 years ago 2
They don't wear the same - they use different symbols.
Did you know that the Vlachs were set up along the routes of the Roman roads?
They were from the Roman soldiers?
Did you know that the Eastern Roman empire flourished into a Greek empire since it was on the backbone of the Macedonian empire (greek was already the language of trade).
The funny thing is that the Sarakatsanoi of GREECE are the MOST PATRIOTIC of all the GREEKS, even of the Athenians.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
The Eastern Roman Empire just adopted a Greek language, for its Latin speaking subjects were the majority of its populus up to the modern times.
Vlachs were set on all mountins from the Vlashka region of Czech Rep, and the Tatra of Poland up to 100 km close to Athens. The Eastern Alps, home of Istro-Vlasi, Tatra mountins, home of the Goral Vlachs, the Carpathians , home of the Vahi, Rodopi, Pindus other Vlachs.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Doesn't matter - because if all Sarakatsanoi - uneducated from the mountains turn and say - I am Greek let's kick out the Turks and form a nation, I have to respect that.
There's nothing you can do, with your anti-hellenism but accept it.
Turkey is formed by many Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Kurds all thinking they are Turks.
IF they say they are Turks, speak Turkish and pray to Allah, I have to accept that.
We are Sarakatsanoi of Greece - We want to be Greeks - get over it.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Even if the Sarakatsanoi are leftovers of the Roman soldiers just like the Vlachs, that leaves them with over 2000 years saying they are Greeks - ZHTO o ELLINISMO.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
as old Vlachs in Greece agree, they were Vlachs. "Ellenismo" is built on the back of many ethnicities. It is a chauvinistic environment, I would compare on a smaller scale to the Russian assimilation history.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Romania is just as a superficial nation as any other
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ZHTO o ELLINISMOS, XRISTOS ANESTH and so will ELLINISMOS! Theos, Patrida and Oikogeneia = Golden sarakatsaniko rule!!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ADiamandi, thinks he's anti-hellenic attitude is justified. He then justifies his racism against Greeks simply because of the Sarakatsanoi declaring themselves Greek. What is your problem??? Why stop with the Greeks? Why don't you find fault in The French who are nationalistic also, or the Romanians, or FYRoMians, or Bulgarians. You have an agenda dear Sir, it's obvious. Just state it and move on.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
u say that an goverment can force people (wich are poor and uneducatet )to belive what the goverment wants...why didnt they let the vlachs belive that they are greeks then? and only us? and that also would mean that 80% of the brainwashed mainstream populations in the world are all poor and uneducatet? how can it be then that our people keept away from political issues all the time before returning back to greek mainstream? and even before that concidered them selfes greek?...
RedDeadRevolva 2 years ago
Because, ADiamandi thinks that Greek govt was rich enough after independence to set up TV as a propaganda tool...oh, sorry that's FYRoM. Oh, maybe because he thinks that Greeks were created by the English....oh, but weren't they supporting the Turks in the TurkoRussian wars?? Oh, well, I guess I have no idea what he is on about, accept that he's anti-hellenism, he thinks is justified!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ah ok but u also realise that similar things can came also because of close ways of lifestyle?!..both are half nomads ...how it comes that genetic sientist tell that we have greek dna ? ...how can it be that we always concideret our selfes as greeks? throu the ages?...how it cames if i look to my fathers face and in to the mirrow i notice an greek looking?...how it comes that we weared black clothes because of the fall of konstantinopolis?.
RedDeadRevolva 2 years ago
..and why did sarakatsanoi sayd "if u hear someone speak vlach hit him with an stick on the head?
RedDeadRevolva 2 years ago
"When speaking Karakachan, they call themselves
Vlahi (sing. Vlahos), which they translate in Bulgarian as Karakachani (sing.
Karakachanin). Upon the mention of the ethnonym Vlahos, Vlahi, they promptly
proceed to stress that they are different from the Vlachs and have nothing to do
with them. Or, as they say themselves, "we are Vlahi in Karakachan, Karakachani
in Bulgarian and Sarakatsani in Greek"."
so beeing Greeks is their own cultural choice, but they cannot drop the Vlach origin
ADiamandi 2 years ago
The bulgarians Karacachans identify themselves as Hellenes (Greeks) and there was no propaganda by the Bulagrian govt to support this. The Bulgarian govt is trying to associate them with the ancient Thracians. Vlahoi have roman words in their language. The Sarakatsanoi were studied by foreigners and Greeks, they found them to be Greek. Now is vlachoi married into Sarakatsanoi or vice versa in some regions, that's another thing. You generalisations about all sarakatsanoi are not true.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
who says that Sarakatsanoi are non greeks just got no glue about it or just makes propaganda...and what do u mean when u say "vlach looking" ? ...do u mean the clothes? the art of life ?...the people?..i guess u are such an ignorant..but comon tell about i would wish to laugh a bit...and i also hope that u know that in the sarakatsanoi dialect are many greek archaic words who didnt even survive in the mainstream greek language etc etc my sarakatdanoi part of family also only spoke greek!
RedDeadRevolva 2 years ago
Vlach looking, a Vlach face, anthropologically studied in Athens and descirbed as pre-Mediteraneean and alike other in N Macedonia and Romania.
The art of life, the clothes too.
Vlach language also has ancient Greek words, just because the Vlachs language was not standardised, and the Vlachs are probably as old a ancient Greeks.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
ABOUT ADiamandi - he is racist and is using theories also used by Risto Stefov a racist Skopjean, FYRoMian that writes unscientific papers based on proapaganda. The theory that Greeks are african is one such propaganda. Read "Not Out Of Africa" by M lefkowitz to understand where this propaganda is coming from. Too many wantobes trying to sound intelligent without one thread of evidence for anything. Adiamandi, is here to remind us that people can say whatever racist things they want on the net.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
First of all do understand that us, NON-Greeks do not understand Greek histeria regarding FYROM or the Republic of Macedonia. It all looks sick, and all this agitation on the Greek part shows any non-conaisseur that the truth lies very far from the Greek side.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
This vid depicts people that look Vlach (not Egiptian/Ethiopian like many Greeks), sing Vlach tunes, wear Vlach, live Vlach, do Vlach stuff in Vlach places and only since the XIX th century are first recorded as a Greek speaking tribe.
In Bulgaria they still refer to eachother as "Vlachs". In Albania there are still Vlach speaking peaople that say they're Sarakaceani.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
My family are sarakatsanoi too and they NEVER spoke any other language than Greek = FACT. ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!! Never forget your roots - too many Balkan countries are jealous of any nation with ancient lineage. Greeks are still culturally connected to the ancient Greeks and genetically proven also, which explains why others are jealous of them.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Sarkatsanaio are tribeof greek nomads that literally fought back and forth across the borders of several countries during Ottoman occupation, thier songs are distinct because of thier being nomads , They only sang and danced during Easter and at weddings having no set church this is how they did it for hundreds of years, All true Sarakatsan songs and dances were never had instraments playing along with them, instraments were introduced in the early part of the 20 century
georgeellas 2 years ago
Instraments were introduced in the early part of the 20 century as a result of them coming down outta the mountains in the 30's They are a fiercly religious people and even though they crossed borders over the last few hundred years in order to escape the turks, they have always remained greek!!
georgeellas 2 years ago
Greek nvere lived in the mountins.
You want us to belive that people dressing up Vlach, singing Vlach songs, living in Vlach places, having "calive" houses and basicly doing the same things, ARE NOT VLACH?
Greeks do not look like VLachs, do not live in cold places and are generally mean idiots everybody hates
ADiamandi 2 years ago
You're just a boring racist that doesn't want to listen to anyone but yourself. Greeks are a very old group of people that included: Minoans, Myceneans, Some Hellenised Thracians, Pontians, Asia Minor Greeks, Italian Greek settlers, Macedonians, Epirotes, Thessaliotes, Acarnanians, Aetolians, Athenians, Aegean Greeks too. Get over yourself. We don't care what you think of Greeks! Go to another site and reiterate your propaganda there. ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!! THEOS, PATRIDA and KRATOS +.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ADiamandi - Greeks LIVED in the mountains!! EVEN the Islands are mountains in the ocean!!! You are not very clever. ALSO Greece is a VERY Mountainous country - so mountains are EVERYWHERE. Another thing, if Greeks are all immigrant africans - how and why are they speaking Greek and not albanian or african????? You're hate for Greece is JEALOUSY. Go to a PRIEST and get over your sin of JEALOUSY. May God help you. CHRIST HAS RISEN!! +
Oceania2000 2 years ago
ADiamandi, you say that: "..Greeks are mean idiots that everyone hates". Well then, why don't you go out and enjoy the company of people who are of the race you enjoy?? We exist and we are proud to be Greeks. It's not our fault, God made us this way. Go out now and make some friends of your favourite race and leave us alone!! Bye!!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
min asxolise mazi tou apo roumania ine kai malista kathisterimenos se xora pou ine 80% vouno tha mas pei o malakas oti i ellines den zoun se vouna ktlp
skipseglipse 2 years ago
I'm from FYRO(Macedonia), my grandmother was sarakatsana also my mother, I'm too.They are no vachs,no nowdays greeks they have rooths of antique greeks and one of clearest "pure" nations real greeks non mixed.And even I leave here i feel this in my blood and I;m happy for it :)
Here in FYRO-Macedonia leave aprox. 3000 sarakatsans-greeks but no one tall about this fact.We have own association here and very little backing of Greece goverment for his own minority.We still take a visa for Greece???
dorabakojani 2 years ago
:) thnx my friend for the good words :)
Of course u can have a visa to Greece..
if u support ur Greek roots :)
ThracianRhodope 2 years ago
Greeks do not have roots to antique roots, Athena when OTTO came was filled with Albanians and the rest of smaller Greece was filled with Afrikan imigrants.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Greeks DO have ancient roots - they still speak Ancient Greek and CAN read it. Take your propaganda elsewhere.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
You contradict yourself. Why would African immigrants speak Greek??Greeks still culturally and historically and linguistically connected. So, we can still read and understand ancient Greek. Get over it. All nations can be proud of themselves, we are Greek and proud too, just like Romanians are proud of themselves. Go out and be happy about being yourself by yourself.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
They would speak Greek thanks to 2000 year old church backup and the pride to belong to the ancient Greek nation. It is what made generations of Vlachs, Slavs, Albanians to lie dead under tombstones with Greek writing. Thanks to this entusiasm towards a culture they wished to beong to, although they didn't underestand theirs was as worth while. The builders of Kalambaka monasteries and the arched bridges everywhere in the Balkans didn't need to identify to a Hellen race to be respected.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
The Sarakatsanoi might have mingled with them in some regions,
but did you know that the Saraktsanoi of different areas wear different clothes
BUT all speak a DORIAN dialect that Athens doesn't teach?
You already explained that you are anti-hellenic, but I can't change my history for your agenda or anyone elses.
Even if the Sarakatsanoi are leftovers of the Roman soldiers just like the Vlachs, that leaves them with over 2000 years saying they are Greeks - ZHTO o ELLINISMOS!!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Hello, yes Sarakatsanoi are NOT vlachs - proven by anthropologists WITH credentials. Good to hear you guys still know your roots. I wish Greece could help you guys, but FYRoM says there are no Greek minorities in their country so I guess it's hard to get assistance. Kali Tyxoi kai XRISTOS ANESTH!!!
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Serbezis e?
anonimotis 2 years ago
i think it may would be helpfull if you post your recources where you getting the infos from..maybe then its easier to debate about them..
RedDeadRevolva 3 years ago
Placed on exactly the same spots, identical to the detail except the later embracing Greek but not everywhere and not mentioned as the remarcable Greek tribe they are supposed to be before XIX century, looking the same in the mirror (anthropologicly backed by courtesy of Greek Aris Poulianos). Shall I continue? Your only arguments are what you consider yourselves to be, ok, that doensn't mean your ancestors felt the same.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
I think you're very biased and you don't pay attention - my dad's family are sarakatsaneoi and they weren't allies to the Greeks - they always spoke Greek and could trace their lineage. You are obvious trying to de-hellenise them to suit you're own propaganda. Sarakatsaneoi did not join the Greeks - they were Greek. Vlachs are different and yes some have confused the two - but anthro studies proved that they were not the same tribes.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
and by the way i am sarakatsanoi my famaly comes from paralimnion (serres) ...so maybe you first invisigate a bit more before you tell that non sense ADiamandi
RedDeadRevolva 3 years ago
The Saracaci(ts)ani (amongst themselves with a distinct Vlach sound and not ending with Greek -oi). The Vlach origin has many adepts, and not only in the XX century Romanian literate writings of Aromanians, and the researched findings in Albania. Sarkatsani were first mentioned in the XIX-th century with the rise of nationalism and the proposterous Megali Idea. How come? Probably because before that they were not individualised as a tribe, they were just considered Vlach and ignored.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
Sarakatsaneoi were given their name - because they were the "fleeing" black wearers - see their costumes. Like the Karagouna of Thessaly. Vlachs are Roman leftovers. Many Sarakatsaneoi joined the freedom fighters of Greece - that's why they came to the foreground. They spoke Greek as far back as they were ever recorded - despite the name given to them, but they are not the same as Vlachs.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
So, you've studied ALL The sarakatsanoi and ALL the ones that didn't mix with vlach groups due to marriage and you are sure that ALL sarakatsanoi are trully non-greeks? You're the one with a Megali Idea.
You can't force uneducated people in the mountains to say they are one thing when they are not. And how do we know where the term came from? It may have been stuck to all people regardless of their true ethnicity.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
a state CAN force uneducated and poor people to become what they were not. Vlachs didn't mix, and sarakatsanoi too, seeing as how this is yet again a tipical Vlach trait.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
I have told you before that the state can't reach the Sarakatsanoi or Karacachans of Bulgaria who despite Bulgarian govt declare themselves of GReek heritage. My ancestors were NOT oppressed people, They SPOKE Greek and nothing else. They knew who were Vlachs and did not identify themselves as such. You come across as a propagandist, whereas I have family history to support my claims. My father has spoken to Vlachs of Greece and they are not Sarakatsanoi.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
I find you, ADiamandi contradict yourself in your statements. Vlachs you say are as old as Greeks and probably Greeks, then you say you are sick of this 100% Greek attitude we have about the Sarakatsanoi. What are you trying to say?? The Sarakatsanoi may be wearing wrist watches today made in switzerland, but they are not Swiss. Clothes or lifestyle can't prove much, but language and culture does. If the Sarakatsanoi speak Greek and identify as Greeks, there's nothing you can do but accept it.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Nope never said that Vlachs were Greeks, quite the contrary, if you can look at a Serbian and at a Romanian and may not always get it right, looking at (A)Romanians and Greeks it is easy to tell apart. So are Sarakatsanoi strikingly , if you wish, Thracian looking.
ADiamandi 2 years ago 2
the culture is Vlach, fot the customs are all Vlach, shepards with a croock, with pastoral Vlach words, for the Greek language didn't have theese words. Songs that have Vlach adressing motives, a Vlach longing sound, and self calling themselves "Vlahi" in Bulgaria, some still speaking Vlach in Albania. You say Greek islands are mountaineous, man have you been to Vermion, or to Grammos, only Vlachs lived there.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
And your proof for your claims is based on...??
Look, you don't reference any study or any scientific research on the two groups.
YET, there have been much study already made that states that the Sarakatsanoi and Vlachs are NOT THE SAME PEOPLE,
yet have been often misunderstood as being the same - based oon superficial observation.
Anthropologists even from England studied them.
Vlachs = Roman Soldiers.
Sarakatsanoi = Dorian clans of Old Hellenes, possibly from Pindus ranges.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
yep, Greeks misunderstood their origin until the XXth century.
ANthropologicly they look the same, I cannot find any difference looking at the faces of theese people in the vid.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Doesn't mean you know what you're talking about either.
I look like a Georgian - two arms, two legs, white, but I am not Georgian.
I do not speak their language, even if we both were addidas.
We both eat potatoes and live in houses and if I marry a Georgian I might move there, but I am still not a Georgian.
If Vlachs are in Greece for 2000 and speak Greek to locals but use their own language at home and if they say they are Greek Vlachs, I cannot do anything but accept it.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
1. they say they are Vlachs, I've never heard Greek Vlach in all the places I've been in Greece talking to them, cause it's a worthless combination of 2 different things. Would I call a magyar in my country Romanian Hungarian?
2. Vlachs are in their own mountaneous regions, that have been anexed by Greece quite late in history without much demographic back-up.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Sarakatsanoi are not the proof you are after!! You have taken the wrong example.
Sarakatsanoi still use ancient Greek used in Homers era.
What then is your proof?
Sorry, but now I understand you have none.
You're only real proof was the Vlachs from the Roman soldiers - but even they only identify as Greeks - because they mingled and settled.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
"Katakouzinos II, Procopius, and Kasomoulis state that before the advent of the Ottomans in southeastern Europe, Greek-speaking Greeks only lived in the coastal cities of Epirus and Aetoloakarnania, and that the remaining people who resided in the mountains were Arvanitovlachs"
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Arvanites - do you know who they are?
And they had proper proof did they??
So, then the Greek nation must've been so good at brainwashing everyone all over,
despite their poverty as a nation! WOW!!
But that doesn't explain why so many Greeks migrated abroad.
If they were SOOO wealthy and controlling, surely then NO person from Greece would have needed to migrate?
Incase the truth ever got out?
BUT, Did you know that Greeks and Chinese are the most Dispersed nation in the world?
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Funny also, because the theory is that Sarakatsanoi are from the Epirotean regions.
But anyhow - I see you believe in your conspiracy theory.
I know for a fact that Romania is a controlling country - I have a friend that came from there - she told me what the nation was like under your communist regime.
Now I understand why you suspect the Greek nation.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
There's no conspiracy theory, in Greece it has happened to Albanian Arvanites, Slavs loosing their language dopica a.o.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Then why do Sarakatsanoi have to lose their Greek identity to suit you or anyone else?
Greece wasn't created by Foreign forces - if that was the case - Brittain would not have sided with the Turks in the Turko-Russian wars to protect their route to India.
Also, why did the French support the Turks against the Greeks in 1920s, if we were a created state?
Also, why did the Germans ally with the Turks in the early 19th century if they wanted to "create" Greece.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
You don't even make sense here.
Greeks looke like some Italians too - are we now Italians with amnesia??
Some romanians look like Croats, are you then what you look like??
Oceania2000 2 years ago
How do you know what the Greek language have??
I met a Romanian that tried to say that CHoros - is a romanian word for dance.
YET, it was a Greek word - from ancient Greek link - it was used pre Roman era and has been recorded to mean Choir and Dance.
ADiamandi - you have not given us one example of your claims.
People don't live in isolation, if the Vlachs were trading with the Sarakatsanoi - and shared the same walking stick - so be it.
I wear Nike too, but I'm not american.
Oceania2000 2 years ago 2
ADiamandi what you are telling is complete non sense...Vlachs are not Sarakatsanoi...read a bit more and you will find out...only thing is that some pseudo educated ppl think they are similar because of they both were living half nomad lifes as nomads you life under some explecit conditions...it would be the same if i tell only because americans & India travel to the moon they are similiar...total non sense grap a book my advice to you
RedDeadRevolva 3 years ago
Well, if Vlachs are not Sarakatsanoi, why do you say they are? Why do you contradict yourself?? What about the Sarakatsanoi of FYRoM, Bulgaria and Albania that say they are Greek???
Oceania2000 2 years ago
The Greek State is the one with an agenda, and it carries on with it although the European Comunity warned about human rights violations concerning Vlachs and all other minorities.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
You're the one with the agenda - you don'
't care to listen you just keep on dishing out the same stuff.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
And Yes I have been to places you describe as beeing inhabited by Greek shepards, i have only found Vlach ones speaking a dialect language of Romanian and some Albanian. In FYROM there is virtually no Greek minority, and in Bulgaria the Vlachs around Sofia and in Rodopi are heralded as Sarakatsanoi.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
It's because the state refuses to acknowledge them - explain why they join the Sarakatsaneoi of Greece for the annual andamoma - if they don't exist.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
people inhabiting the same places, wearing the exact patterns since forever, having the same ancient simbols, the same ocupation (although all other Greek are very much different) speak completely distinct languages (the Sarakatsen still preserving some old 100% Vlach terms) and thus one is Greek Greek and the other Greek Vlach (as you so much like to say :) ).
ADiamandi 3 years ago
Ανεξάρτητα από τις μετακινήσεις τους και τον εναλλασσόμενο τόπο διαμονής τους έχουν τα ίδια ήθη και έθιμα και κυρίως μιλούν την ίδια γλώσσα, την Ελληνική, απαλλαγμένη από ξένα στοιχεία, αναλλοίωτη, που φέρει τα χαρακτηριστικά γνωρίσματα της δωρικής διαλέκτου.
cactusgiant 3 years ago
Η χρήση μιας και μόνο γλώσσας, της Ελληνικής, αποδεικνύει ότι οι Σαρακατσιαναίοι είναι διαφορετικοί από τους Βλάχους
cactusgiant 3 years ago
these people are vlach all the way and also a perfect exemple of assimiliation into the greek curent,like the arvanites and the future vlach=sheperd= fully greek in the near future.I bet in 50 years in Greece will exist only greeks,but will be funny for the future generations to explain why some of their countrymen are muslims
sorin1918 3 years ago
Adiamandi you probably have never even spoken to a sarakatsanos. I am a Sarakatsanos myself(father and mother are Sarakatsanoi). I know hundrends of Sarakatsanoi from all over Greece, Bulgaria and Fyrom. Never, ever heard of any Sarakatsanos claiming that we have Aromanian roots. Do not confuse vlachs with the Aromanian people. All shepherds in Greece were called vlachs. Sarakatsanoi too. Sarakatsanoi only spoke Greek and this well proven.
christos1968 3 years ago
man I'm not the one with an agenda, what agenda can you have when Vlach speakers in Greece are probably the most ageing cultural and national group of Europe, their average age would be 60.
Yes I have Vlachs and Albanian Epirotes to blaim for helping create a state that doesn't reflect the hopes they had.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
I meant to write to ADiamandi that Sarakatsanoi has also been explained to have come from Karakacan meaning black wearing (mourning) people on the run (nomadic). So everyone has there own theories. But it's obvious they affiliated with the Greeks despite Bulgar or any other nations propaganda.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
Sarakatsanoi live in Abania too where many of them speak Vlach, the Vlachs in Greece also claim that Sarakatsanoi used to speak Vlach, and their way of life and folclore, the places they live and even their own name reflect a Vlach heritage.
Vlachs, Sarakatsanoi, even Vlachs of ROmania (Romanians) joined the fight for liberation as allies of Greece. It was a liberation fight more than it was a national Greek fight.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
they have hellinic roots.
tisbales 3 years ago
The vlachs may have latin roots and may have been introduced during the roman empire, but the sarakatsanoi are not vlachs, despite people confusing the two. Even the bulgarian sarakatsanoi have greek lineage.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
No, georgeellas, I do not claim that Saracacani came from somewhere else, but the Greeks on their lands did, from the South and from the breakaway Ottoman empire. Saracaciani are the living example of what will happen to all the Vlachs of artificial Greece if Greece continues to supress its minorities. Nice folclore, but the ugly language doesn't fit it.
All Vlachs I spoke to in Greece agree that Sarakatsanoi used to speak Vlach.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
Why don't you ask the sarakatsanoi? My family were sarakatsanoi and spoke Greek as far as their clan recalls even though they were not educated. They fled south to avoid the turks.
Greece is artificial as any other nation on the planet.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
Hey Diamandi the sarakatsan were nomads that fought through the mountains and across the bordersof bulgaria albania and as far up as Romania, Nomads yes but Greeks none the less true sarakatsan came outta of the mountains the early part of the last century, they dont claim to come from any certain place since their towns were destroyed by the Outtoman turks, so do yourself a favor and shut yer mouth so people just think yer Stupid, instead of opening it and proving them right LOL!!
georgeellas 3 years ago
ADiamandi - is just trying to show his resentment towards Greece.
I had a classmate from Romania - she used to tell me all the stuff they associate with Greeks - and it was all negative.
They associate our "success" as a nation - to the assistance of alterior forces and motives.
It's usually communist Balkan states that take this stance. I do realise why.
Oceania2000 2 years ago 2
yep, you might be right about the image of the Greek in the Romanian folclore. It is a bad one especially related to the Greek clergy. This image is shared by other ethnicities in the Balkans. Unfortunately one cannot distinguish clearly that the "Greeks" that wandered to the N were ethnic Greeks. The traders were in their majority Vlach that used the Greek language in their bussiness as a sign of prestige. That was until the Greek language began beeing enforced, with the Megali Ideea era.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
yep, succes, you benefited from the Turkish empire, and from as you well say dispersed small pockets of real Greeks you managed to bring about a nation. The Alb town of Athens, the Vlach and Alb Epir, the Vlach Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, the Slav North. Unfortunatelly to be fair to all the different people that helped bring Greece to the level of a nation one has to pay up: institutions and rights for all the minorities of Greece.
So they don't end up like Sarakatsanoi, a fake Greek people.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Vlachs were genetically tested and found to be linked to the populations they live amongst - there was no difference no matter what nation - they now belong to those nations they live in.
The Greeks did not benefit from the Turkish Empire - we lost Pontus and Asia Minor.
We benefitted from the Turks??? Say that to the thousands of GReeks that were persecuted. Tell that to the Armenians that also died.
If sarakatsanoi are fake - go to another site, no one cares for your opinions.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Well Then if all these people are suppressed in Greece, who is then free and why do they all speak Greek?
Greece was NOT under a communist regime like ROMANIA, FYROM and ALBANIA, these people were always FREE to go wherever they wanted to.
This is also WHY Greeks are spread all over the globe - but still want to speak Greek and teach it to their children, despite the country they are in.
You're communist censorship will not quieten us. We are FREE and we are what we claim to be.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Όπα Σαρακατσαναίοι...χαιρετίσματα από Βερολίνο/Γερμανία
Nekdalak 3 years ago 2
In 2008 Albania, amongst other groups, there are people who call themselves saracacieni (grik Sarakatsanoi). They speak Vlach and they came from Saracu (grick Sirakou). Wonder why the ones in the "Greek Democracy" only speak Greak now.
ADiamandi 3 years ago
in bulgaria they speak greek to and they identify themselfs as greek , and the sarakatsani have never spoken vlach i dont know where you get this stuff from and thats why sarakatsani dont identify with vlachs plus vlachs are greeks to so where do you want to get with this?
skipseglipse 3 years ago
Wonder why you keep pushing the sarakatsanoi (which also means - black wearing chased people in turkish) were vlachs?? Perhaps you're the one other with an agenda. Why did many sarakatsanoi join the Greek revolution if they were vlachs????? You have many sarakatsanoi to blame for the Greek nation.
Oceania2000 3 years ago
Sorry - but what about the Sarakatsanoi that don't speak Vlach, never have and never identified as anything but Greek despite being uneducated? You're the one with an agenda and you already shown your anti-hellenic attitude in previous post
Oceania2000 2 years ago
My anti-hellenic atittude is justified by witnessing this complete bullshit about a 100% Greek tribe that is virtually different to all other Greek traits except language but the same in everything else with Vlachs. I do accept the fact that theese people got "hellenised" all the way, but don't rubb away the history.
ADiamandi 2 years ago
Who are you to tell anyone that they are 100% Greek and refer to it as bullshit. I am sick of your denying my ancestory aswell. How do you know Vlachs and Sarakatsanoi are the same??? What are you comparing it on, when the Vlachis in Greece Dance differently, Dress differently, only lifestyle of nomadic ways was similar. But Indians were nomadic too, are we claiming connection? no.
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Language is a stronger indicator than dress and lifestyle.
Vlachs don't use same cultural icons and ethics.
To me the Romanians look like a cross between Hungarians and Bulgarians.
Then am I supposed to conclude that you are a nation created for the entertainment of the Western allies who wanted a Hungaro-Bulgarian mix?
And would you really cared what I thought?
Oceania2000 2 years ago
Etsi wre xeretismous apo Kamaria Agrafwn!
TurksFucker 3 years ago
a re aderfia bravo me kanate kai suginh8ika....
lious4 3 years ago
bravo giannisg2008 pu ehis to Sermpezi.Hia mena ine protos tragoudistis.Ego ime apo ti Bulgaria.
sarakacanos 3 years ago
ποιος μπορει να μου πει πως μπορω να σκουσω στο rapidshare τραγουδια?
kommtasos 3 years ago
mpavo se oloys esas pou sozete thn paradosi mas bravo sarakatsaneiiiiiiiiiiiii
axiniotis 3 years ago 2
polu kalo!!!exo ola ta cd tou serbezi ektos apo afto!an de sou kanei kopo anavase to sto rapidshare!!!
thodoros1982 3 years ago
einai poli palioapo enan xoro sarakatsanaion einai o sermpezis.........
giannisg2008 3 years ago
bravo filaraki!!!an mporeis pes mou apo poio cd einai afta ta tragoudia?kai an to exeis anevase to sto rapidshare kai steile mou to link!euxaristo!
thodoros1982 3 years ago 2