what is this Iland nation problem ? some one has to tell to england it is 2112 , they can not go around take over some one's home any longer . what is their fucking business that far south any ways.
According to the Arg. Constitution over 100,000 indigenous Mapuche are the legitimate owners of the lands in Patagonia. but Patagonia continues to be acquired by local elites and wealthy buyers for personal use or tourism
This policy not only runs counter to local laws and statutes enshrined in treaties such as the 2007 UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, but also demonstrates the link between EXPANSIONIST policies and non-preservation of the rights of indigenous peoples.
Yes, and also they're not bankrupt, chances are you don't even follow them and listen, instead you refer to your government sanction pravda propaganda machine for guidance, well done.
And UKIP are reactionaries, worthless, and don't even know who the real enemies are and are to afraid to be patriotic and nationalistic.
Argentina are a bunch a big cry babies. Grow up you pricks, the people who live there don't want to be associated with your shitty tin-pot little 3rd world country. Get over it and move on.
On what are Brit. priority rights based?? In 1833 there was an extensive diplomatic dispute upon UK annexing the Malvinas. They then claimed the Malvinas based on the first colony in 1865. But the French were first in 1864 and sold/ceded the colony for the benefit of Buenos Aires. This is a detail and fact distorted and denied on? the UK Malvinas homepage, and by you as well. This is a deliberate line of deception and legal abuse, no wonder why UK does not engage in talks.
@nicoheiz You mean 1764. It was ceded to the Spanish and when the Argies rebelled against the Spanish they lost any claims to the islands based on Spanish claims
Again, for clearing this out... if we organize 10.000 argentinians to go to England, form a kind of 'colony' with our culture ofc and all... but suddenly they want to be part of Argentina! wouldn't you support them? you should, right?
It's interesting that no Argies have come on here and been able to comment about the Beagle Conflict! Could it be that they realise that it shows them to be the bullies that they really are and there's no way to defend their actions?
@AmboGuy That's a completely different issue, please stay on topic and stop posting fallacies of that kind like "I don't care about the Falklands issue, but you were some fucking bullies piece of trash third world you should all be nuked by some great power blah blah blah /derp" ... there are a lot of british dudes who say that, and i don't hesitate to tell them how idiot they are.
@VelperK Oh but I think this is relevant my little third world friend. It shows that Argentina have a history of trying to steal land from other countries, this helps to explain the Argentinian way of thinking ie 'It's not mine but I want it'.
30 years ago Argentina had a lot of domestic problems so the ruling military junta decided that they would invade the Falkland Islands to divert attention from their own problems, come forward 30 years and again Argentina has a lot of domestic problems...
@AmboGuy ...so that stupid bitch Kircher decides to talk about stealing the Falklands - and again you Argentinians fall for the same trick again!!! Wake up and realise that you are being played for fools.
@VelperK I have stayed on topic you idiot. Argentina uses the Falklands as an excuse to pacify its people and take their mind off domestic problems whenever its economy is fucked. They did it 30 years ago and that whore Kirchner is trying it now to take matters off domestic problems again. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND??? Are you all so stupid you can't see that you are being used? You will never become a proper 1st world nation like the UK unless you try to use a bit of intelligence.
@AmboGuy hahah poor fella, once again going off-topic. i know you don't have any other argument but hey, try to not make a fool of yourself. but if you want my response on that, yes, i know that kirchnner doesn't give a shit about the malvinas and that she uses it just for profit, like a lot of other politicians did. but if we have that in MIND and start actually discussing about the dispute, you'll see it from a different perspective ;)
@VelperK OK I'll make things simple for you with two questions.
1) The people who live there want to remain under British control (it's called 'Self Determination'). They do NOT want to be under Argentina. Do their wishes count at all to you?
2) Argentina has NEVER owned The Falklands...ever. Argentina (itself a Spanish colony) did not even exist as a country when we had inhabited The Falklands. Why should we give you something that you have never owned?
1) but of course they do not want to be part of Argentina, after all, they came from 10000 miles away and started fucking each other for over 200 years, enough time for spreading the "marvelous british culture, god save the queen, oh the glorious united kingdom of great britain" and blah blah blah. resuming, the self-determination thing does not apply to colonialists.
2) Argentina did owned the Malvinas, check it in documents, books, internet articles and all the related stuff you'll find out that we actually did have a control over the malvinas, though it was very short but that doesn't mean we weren't there. people usually doesn't give it importance if it was owned for such a bit time, but they should.
@VelperK So you're saying that you just don't care what the people there want? Wow - you're a really lovely person aren't you. Self Determination does apply. Argentina have never ever owned the Falklands! The argument that you 'inherited' them off the Spanish is laughable and worthy of my contempt.
Please don't start talking about colonialism, why do you think you speak spanish? Millons of indigenous people living in South America were wiped out by your ancestors so you should remember that eh?
@AmboGuy ... Oh i heard that argument a lot of times, it's a bit shitty though but whatever. yes, you had TEMPORALY the islands before we formaly existed as a proper country... but what some people don't seem to realize is the fact that when we got the independence (1816) the malvinas were controlled by SPAIN and therefore, since the archipelago was part of the vicerroyalty of the rio de la plata, we inherited it.
now let's go to the logic of that argument itself...
@AmboGuy ... -I don't understand why aren't you claiming a half of the world by now, since for you if the UK had putted its flag in its colonial lands before any actual country existed, those country should be punished and form part of GB again, right?
oh, if we get deeper with this argument you should also be part of Denmark right now. LOL
@VelperK Just out of interest - are you a bit ashamed and embarrassed that the UK gives you millions of pounds a year in foreign aid? I find it strange that Argentina asks for money off rich countries like a street beggar whilst at the same time trying to steal from us.
@AmboGuy Since, if you want, I could post some 'moral' thingies that the UK have done in its short history... and they're not that much of "goodness" or nothing... xD.
See the level we get if we started to post other's moral things? it's stupid to debate history on this perspective. now please, once again, stay on topic and talk about THIS issue and not other stuff, thanks.
@TheIcelandicPatriot I always laughed with the british arrogancy... "HAHAH FUCKING SHITHOLE THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WE CAN NUKE YOU ALL PIECE OF SHIT SADASDASD /i'm_an_idiot" ... why don't you go and declare war for getting back your "former colonies" of the US? HUH? fucking hypocrites and fainthearted... now, going back to topic, that thing of "DEFEND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE PLEASE, DON'T BE SO NAZI, DEFEND LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!!!!" ... fuck you. THINK for a bit please.
@TheIcelandicPatriot ... The self-determination that the UN supports does NOT apply to the colonialists, I mean, about what self determination are we talking about? the one from some random dudes 10000 miles away who established in other's island just for imperialistic reasons, and stayed 200 years, enough time for fucking and spread their culture in order to now say "LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE PLEASE, ARGIES PIRATES COLONIALIST ASDASD /derp" ... hahahah
@VelperK When you think about it there are colonies everywhere in some sence. Argentine speaks spanish not some native tongue, Canada is under British rule, same goes for Australia, Gibraltar, New Zealand and more. All of which can have there independence but they choose to stay with Britain.
Spain wants Gibraltar but Britain and the people living there have said no. What does Spain do then? They are not happy about it but they deal with it. They lost with honor, unlike the Argentines.
The wast majority of the people living there are Falklanders/British. Wikipedia say's there are only 0.2% Argentines living there. You have no right to take something that is not yours and to take something that the people don't want. I mean for example, Icelanders found Greenland but we do not make any claims for it and you know why? The people there do not want oss as rulers. This we accept and we move on.
You lost but instead of losing like a gentleman you cryed to your mommy.
again, repeating, the territorials disputes are not decided by the "will of the people" . let me see if i get this right... lemme put you a hypothetical scenario, okay?
Argentina is an empire wich occupated a part of south England, stayed occupying it for 200 years and therefore that was enough time to GTFO to all the english, put our culture, make the people there drink mate and making them agree with the argentine rule from 10000 miles away from there.
Ahrem...hrmm....You do know you are talking to a student which experties is European history? You never ruled anything in Europe. The only ones who have ruled anything in Britain are Romans, Saxons and Normans and thats it. Not to mention the U.K qualifies in every thing when it comes to a first class nation. Argentine is a second class, Unless you have a civill war then you will be a third class.
i was putting out an hypothetical scenario.... did you read? YES, H-Y-P-H-O-T-H-E-T-I-C-A-L that means, a-historical. do you know where i put your "european studies" right? oh you should lol. STICK to the LOGIC of what i SAID not matter if it was REAL OR NOT.
@VelperK So.....your saying that i should belive you no matter what? A small child that knows nothing about world politics, peoples liberties, history and land class?
I think ill pass :)
P.S. Yes the U.S is bigger then the U.K but learn what puppet means and comment back.
@TheIcelandicPatriot oh the common ad hominem fallacy... yeah sure i'm all you want, but you should know that you didn't posted ANY argument there. you were like "oh my little poor kid, i'm an adult and i know this because these are adult stuff and you child should go back to school you know..." what a retrograd way of thinking. also don't think you won the discussion with that, my little friend.
Nobody can truly win an arguement because then one would end up agreeing to the other person,that would be a "Win"As for world politics,the guy with the biggest mouth and the biggest gun has the most influence that would be the US A nation can befriend with another but that would not make them a puppet.As for land class,you called the UK a third class country when you have nothing to back that up.
Proves and facts are something im into. Now i would recomment more school for you though.
@TheIcelandicPatriot lol what? please quote exactly where i said they were a third world country please. yes i know they have a more advanced infrastructure and all, but we're gettin' there... maybe in some 50 years we could be in that level, i hope :p
@VelperK HAHAH FUCKING SHITHOLE THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. You said that in i belive the first comment you wrote to me. Not saying that you really meant it but it was said none the less.
Look Argentine is a great country only a fool would deny it but none the less i see no Argentine legitimacy over the Falklands.
People despute over land everywere but it is allways useless unless the native people join the fight.
@AmboGuy And I'll say it, you're an idiot. that's another fallacy, wich ofc i'll refute.
Let make this clear, first of all, the aid that your GOVERNMENT is giving to our country (yes the govt. not the UK as a whole, we're not receiving anything from you or any other british guy lol) does NOT have anything to do with the Malvinas issue. please stay on-topic and stop pissing me off by saying shit wich doesn't have any relevance on the primary theme xD
@VelperK And how do you think our government gets its money? From the UK tax payer - o you ARE receiving money from me you idiot!!! I am paying to subsidise poor countries like yours who come begging for money.
You never answered my question - are you ashamed you have to beg for money from the UK?
@AmboGuy Lol. I meant that you don't go to any charity campaign and start donating money to Argentina, nobody in the UK gives a fuck about us, what the govt. does with your and all british' taxes isn't a problem for you so no, invalid answer again. No i'm not "ashamed" since it's just not the money from people, you just don't give a fuck about us and do not wanna know what the fuck the govt. does with the money, so gtfo and focus concretely in the dispute nothing else.
@AmboGuy And previously you said: "So you're saying that you just don't care what the people there want?" ... that's the typical "fallacy of the straw man", changing my whole point of view by adding stetical things to your favor and making you look like the winner of the discussion. No I did NOT said that the kelper shouldn't be allowed to have their own government. if they join Argentina somewhen, they'll manage their stuff how they want to. we have a semi-federalist system so there you go.
@AmboGuy Also no, we are not some nazi country wich aims to get the islands and put the kelper all in a poison gas room LOL. as i said in previous comments, we don't put a shotgun in some italian's dude, tell him to speak spanish with argentine accent, drink mate, watch footbal every sunday and dance tango you know...
@VelperK They started it? Not here to cause pain but they did not. You attacked by landing your troops on there shores and just as any country did they acted in defence.
I do not remember any British attacks in the 20'th century against Argentine.
@TheIcelandicPatriot also, do not put words in my mouth: "You attacked by landing your troops on there shores" we, the people, didn't want to attack the islands but a dictatorship wich needed a LOT of flavour since it was in a decadent status. yes, there could be some celebrations in the streets and all, but have in mind that they were all brainwashed by Galtieri and his monkeys. there were a lot of people who opposed this agressive act.
@TheIcelandicPatriot "A small child that knows nothing about world politics, peoples liberties, history and land class?" But wait, do you KNOW me? have we EVER meet in person and chatted this staff properly, rather than just debatin with a 500 characters limiter? lol. what an idiot. well i didn't said that of "puppet" in the ACTUAL sense of the word... okay let's go a step lower and say they're in their... sphere of influence. that fits you better, doesn't it?
@TheIcelandicPatriot ...now, England is a third world country wich ofc has little-none influence on the world. that's why the world community doesn't give a shit about it and they just wash their hands. they constantly claim their stolen land, and also do not like that overseas possesion from part of Argentina, but of course the last one supports "the will of the people" and treat England as a colonialist country. would you say that's a good thing coming from Argentina?
@TheIcelandicPatriot Also, one more thing, a lot of British dudes actually THINK that bullshit of we beign in a dictatorship still and the govt. killing the opposicion and all that shit... hahahahha xDD. we stoped that a long time ago, it's not like that if we get the islands somewhen we're going to kill all the kelper, no. i support respecting their culture and all. we don't say any german to speak spanish with argentine accent, start drinking mate, watch football and dance tango you know... xD
@TheIcelandicPatriot not really just unlucky. uk was lucky enough that one of their ships carrying a nuclear weapon didn't get hit by an exocet. If that happened there would be no so called falklands or malvinas. Eventually it seems man kind will destroy itself in a fit of deranged madness. Let things go friends. History is doomed to repeat itself if we cant just let go and turn the other cheek
@acp1778 O yea it should be fine. Aliens have taken London what should we do!?
O we will be fine.
Am i reading your comment correctly? So if someone attacks your country your willing to just take it? What type of Englishman are you?
P.S. Im sure you are well aware that the British had better ships. But they did not think much about this so they sent second hand vessels in to actions.
In fact that is a good way to test the strenght and the will of the enemy.You won them with second hand stuff.
@TheIcelandicPatriot So if someone attacks your country your willing to just take it? Interesting everything on earth has a cause and a reaction. "Karma". We cannot deny that we have gone over to other countries and imposed our ways. This is why europeans are hated and americans as well. Secondly the military had no better ships, Why do you think they borrowed a freaking tourist cruising ship. Under thatcher the military was considerably downsized to bare bones.
@acp1778 This is the British empire we are talking about, you do know that right?
Every general, every captain in the world knows that when someone attacks you you have to test there strenght. There for you don't use your ase of spade in the first round.
And i don't belive in karma, i belive in free will and that every man makes his own destiny.
You say the U.K military was crap back then well i say it did not want to risk there fancy stuff when they could simply throw in something else.
Las islas son de Argentina, los kelper son una poblacion transplantada. Es una evidencia mas de las 4 intento de invacion de inglaterra a la Argentina, 3 fueron derrotados, y una usurparon las islas malvinas expulsando a la poblacion civil argentina que vivia alli. Piratas ingleses devuelvan lo que no les pertenece, son de Argentina.
ARGENTINA HAS A HISTORY OF TRYING TO STEAL ISLANDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES!!! Go to google and do a search for 'BEAGLE CONFLICT'. It shows how Argentina refused to accept a binding international agreement to give these islands to Chile and nearly went to wart over it - sound familiar? This is just history repeating itself all over again.
The British victory in the Falkland War was a victory of justice and freedom! It was not only a victory for the people of the Falkland Islands and their right of self dertimination, but also for the people of Argentinia (even if they refsue to see this now), because the British victory was the beginning of the end of the brutal military dictatorship.
If Argentinia would respect democracy they would respect the will of thge majority of the population on these Islands to remain British. It's Argentinia, who is acting like a greedy colonist here.
@sceptiquele What people don't seem to understand, according to yours and a lot of other similar comments, is that the will of the people is a shitty argument to apply here since the BRITISH were the "greedy colonialists" here... you'll see, if we look back to history, you'll find out that the UK got possesion of the archipelago when actually WAS habited of argentine people... go and check it for yourself. ;D... You can't apply self determination to colonialism, okay?
The people who live on these islands are descended from the British in the same way the Americans, Canadians and Australians are. The Argentinians are descended from the Spanish. It's the result of colonialism that's now a part of history.
The islanders could choose independence, but instead choose to be a British Overseas Territory. That choice should be respected. Argentina would force an unwanted and oppressive government on these people, which makes no sense in 2012.
Exactly how many Argentines were living in the Falklands before 1833? And what happened to the French (Bretons) who named the islands for the Spanish?
well that last comment of yours saying that we were "cowards" and that i should join our "mickey mouse" militare we have, wasn't exactly an argument, don't you think?...
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. they were british by SOME time before we formally existed as a country, but i just highligted SOME because by the time we got the independence, those islands were not yours, but SPANISH, and since we got the independence in 1816 with the malvinas beign part of spain...
@VelperK Ok so what you are saying is that Spain and not Argentina has a right to claim sovereignty over the Falklands? If thats the case then why dont they say so? You have admitted that the Falkland Islands were British and existed before Argentina was formed, so how can you continue to arge that Argentina has a legitimate claim?
@MrPorkydanjou I think I pretty much explained why in my previous comments, please take your time not just for reading them, but for understanding them as well too.
@VelperK Velper that is just hypothetical? Firstly, any raiders from Denmark, Norway,Sweden etc just did that, they 'raided', they turned up, killed a load and nicked a load of stuff then went back home. The 'Romans' as you say were not representative of one country, they were comprised of a mass of different European nationalities and cultures etc..I simply do not understand why you genuinely believe that Argentina has a legitimate claim over the Falklands?
@MrPorkydanjou You're wrong in that, check some history files and you'll find out that these Saxons actually established some settlements in the British isles after kicking the romans out from the south of England, for finally beign expulsed by "William the Conqueror" in 1066 approximately.
@MrPorkydanjou But if we are going to point out who are the legitimate owners basing ourselves in the "who was before who" argument, then we should go back before the roman invasion to the isles, where there were the famous Celts tribes, wich fiercely defended their land against the romans.
@VelperK Velper i think you are going way off the track at the moment..I honestly cannot see how a country can claim sovereignty over another, if that other existed before them? Its like if for some strange reason a piece of rock popped up from the ocean today on the Argentinian coastline and people went to live on there but then said that Argentina belonged to them? It wouldnt make sense?
@MrPorkydanjou Well I just posted my thoughs on that point of view by posting some good rethoric questions, I think that the "who was before who" argument doesn't have any legitimacy because if that was the case, then the UK would be in constant warfare with their ancient colonies on North America because you established your flag first there than the actual yanks. that's what i don't see this statement as a valid one.
@VelperK No thats not the same argument because the Americans beat us and kicked us out of North America, we no longer were able to maintain a permanent prescence therefore we had no letimacy. The Argentinan flag has never flown over the Falklands, not once and yet Argentinans are taught from a young age that the Falklands belongs to them? I do not understand?
@MrPorkydanjou I'm not calling for the reasons wich made the first country who established its flag first go away from the land, but the logic itself. Dunno if you got my point now...
@VelperK To set the matter straight please list for me the main reasons why you believe the Falklands to have always belonged to Argentina, because we are going off tangent a bit referring to the US etc
@MrPorkydanjou It was a comparative example, as I told you already (that of the US). But if you want something deeper we could say that all the world should be part of some african union, since there were the first homo-sapiens who ever lived on this planet, wich of course migrated throughout all the world. Well, I said in previous comments, my our PRINCIPAL reasons for having the archipelago are...
-Because of historical claims: we reached to the islands in 1820, after we got independence...
@MrPorkydanjou ...in 1816, we inherited all the territory that was in the Rio de la Plata vicerroyalty of Spain, including of course the Malvinas, because they actually WERE part of the spanish sovereignity, and your govt. also signed a treaty expressing their possitive opinion toward this... so, we stayed until 1833, time in wich the yanks got mad at us because we not allowing their (neither the british or even ourselves) whales hunting ships, wich was a VERY preciate resource...
@MrPorkydanjou ...in the market by the time. Well, as I was saying, the yanks took tactical advantage on our Malvinas' garrison and dispersed them all, so we now couldn't had any order on the islands... and now comes the good part, you guys took advantage of those US riots in the islands for getting down here and finally establishing a former colony and cast all the citiziens who were living down here... replacing them with BRITISH dudes. I mean, ofc that they won't agree with beign part...
@MrPorkydanjou ... of Argentina, after all, they came from the other part of the world lol. (what i'm trying to say is that the rights of self-determination do NOT apply in colonial cases, check the UN if you have any doubts about it) well, that is the historical claim, but in the other hand is the geographical...
-Geographical claims: the Malvinas islands are at an enormous difference respecting distances, Argentina-Malvinas: 400 km. - UK - "Falklands": 12000 km. (approx)...
@MrPorkydanjou ...I mean, why in God's sake should be legitimate a colonial power claim? seriously, what fu***** bussiness do you have 10000 Miles away from your homeland? if you want to be british, stay in that big island of yours in Europe, but don't spread your "great culture" all over the world... it's really pathetic to support colonialism in these times. well, sorry, that was on one side, now the principal geographical reason though is that the archipelago IS in our continental...
Who are the colonists here? Who wants to conquer an island far away from their own territory against the will of the people living there?
The main difference between Britain and Argentinia in this war was that the Argentinians were fighting for the islands while the British were fighting for the islanders. It's not hard to decide as non-Argentinian and as a non-British who got my sympathies.
@MrPorkydanjou ...platform, and by that I meant the extended Patagonic plateau wich extend below the level of the sea... and it reaches the Malvinas for your information, yes. Just research it for yourself. The UN does support us in this issue of the plateau also.
okay there you go, i just explained what I saw as the principal reasons for why we should be the owners of the Malvinas, and not the UK. btw, I don't have anything about the UK's people, but his govt.
@MrPorkydanjou No, read my below comments too, they complement themselves: historical+geographical claims... we can't base our reclaims in just ONE argument.
@VelperK Yes but Velper you are saying that even though the Falklands existed and was a UK dependency before the country of Argentina was formed that simply because it is on the same geographical line then it must then surely belong to Argentina? It doesnt make sense? How can a country that didnt exist before another one ( Falklands ) then claim afterwards that they have a legitimate claim simply due to their location?
@MrPorkydanjou Well, what i'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter wheter if we existed before or after you, if that was the case, you SHOULD give Gibraltar back to Spain, since the United Kingdom was formally created in the IX century, and Spain in XVI... lol. Now, do you understand my point Porky? also, no, if it was just for geographical claims that we're basing our interests, that would be a little weird indeed. But have in mind our HISTORICAL claims too, read them in my below comments.
@VelperK Well Velper if it isnt for geographical claims then how can it be for historical claims? The Islands were British before Argentina existed? And as for Gibraltar, I think thats an argument best left to have between Spanish and English people, the reason? Because in the reverse of your argument, Spain did in fact have legitimacy of Gibraltar and youre right they do have a case against us, but Argentina never had any claim on the Falklands?
@MrPorkydanjou Hmmm, but what i'm trying to say is that the logic of your argument is not valid just because of that. So do you think that the UK should give back Gibraltar to Spain?
@VelperK In my opinion the UK has no legal right to claim ownership of Gibraltar, it did belong to Spain, history tells us that unequivocally, not through rumour,supposition or vague references to unqualifiable claims, its fact. Unlike Argentinas claims against the Falklands which has none of the above to support its arguments. But in the 21st Century it should be upto the Islanders in both examples to decide and not politicians.
@MrPorkydanjou Hmmm... I find it rather interesting that you're not agree with the UK colonialism of Gibraltar, but yes of the Malvinas Islands. "through rumour,supposition or vague references to unqualifiable claims" Please Porky, go to your closest library and ask to the receptionist for some books about the British imperialism, or better, about the Malvinas issue... and you'll find out that what you're saying is wrong.
@MrPorkydanjou "But in the 21st Century it should be upto the Islanders in both examples to decide and not politicians." so this completely contradicts you in the Gibraltar matter, since you said it shouldn't be part of the United Kingdom, or am I wrong?
@VelperK No my opinion on the Gibraltar matter is consistent, it doesnt lawfully belong to my country, sad as it is for me to say it, but the Falklands does belong to the UK, I cant be any clearer than that can I ?
@MrPorkydanjou I just did go for the logic of your argument, because if you say that the population should decide wheter they wanna be part of Ponyville or north korea, and that its point of view is above all, then your possition saying that Gibraltar is lawfully spanish is totally contradicted... i can't be any clearer than that... ;P
@MrPorkydanjou ... we can legitimately say that those islands are our, because we inherited all the territory that was called the "Vicerroyalty of the Rio de la Plata" wich of course includes the malvinas islands..
@VelperK Im sorry, are you admitting that the Falklands belonged to the British before Argentina existed? If so then there is no more argument to be had?
@MrPorkydanjou No i'm not saying that, and yes, there is more argument to be had because it's stupid to think that because you own a piece of soil before other country, that legitimate belongs to that one. with that logic you should be claiming the US right now, as Spain should do so with her ancient colonies in south america, don't you think?
@MrPorkydanjou and in fact, with that logic, Denmark should be claiming the british isles because the Saxons tribe from that part of the world were the ones who GTFO'd the romans and established in the past. don't you agree Porky?
Disturbing news, entire argentine amphibious special forces has formed on shore at rio gallegos
there launch was slightly delayed as they both could not decide which one had to sit by the taps, with their tactical equipment containing one oar and a bath plug the argentine navy departed to the excitement of the crowd, armed with a surface to air spud gun battle with the UK navy is expected to be brief, before landing on the falklands and greeted as liberators by the oppressed Falklanders.
@aminah487 Well, at least you're consistent. Although since Spain has governed the Canary Islands for 500 years, I think they have a good claim to it.
I've read a lot of comments from both sides and kept an open mind, but I have seen no reasonable arugments as to why the Falkland Islands should be governed by Argentina. Just a lot of cursing over 'colonial Britian' (which was wound down some 40-50 years ago) and the Queen (who doesn't have a huge influence in British policy). Can the pro-Malvinas camp just come clean and admit that this is just down to a long-term grudge against the UK?
Plus the whole 'colonial' argument... this is about what is happening NOW, not what was done THEN. Rejecting a long-settled populations decision over which government they choose sounds like fascism to me. If the Falklanders wanted to join Argentine, I would respect their position, but they don't, so Argentina should respect theirs.
@dark108x well, that's a nice comment you have made... this is what i think about that point of view: you would say it's ok if we organize 100.000 argentine people to go and indirectly occupy a little part of England, "colonize" the land (putting cartels of Maradona, dancing Tango and stuff xD), stay for like 200 years, and then say: "we want our own government now! we have our own culture, we don't want to be in the UK's country anymore, even though we live in their geographical position"?
@VelperK If Argentina colonised and developed an uninhabited island 400km from the coast of the UK, then yes, I would respect their claim. I'm curious, do you also have problems with Spain's claim to the Canary Islands (closer to Morocco) or France's claim to Saint Pierre and Miquelon (off the coast of Canada)?
@dark108x Iet me clarify your ignorance, we are not claiming the Malvinas JUST because the abismal difference between distances that we have with them, compared to the UK-"falklands" but because they are in the Patagonic plateau, and that's the principal reason in the geographic question of this...
also, yes i think those countries should give these possesions the status of independent countries, since they don't have a record of beign held by someone else but those old colonial powers.
@dark108x PD: the geographical and historical reasons complement themselves, we don't claim the islands basing us just in ONE or the OTHER argument alone.
@dark108x PD/PD: i guess your country's govt should stop with this thing of colonizing lands and all, those good times for the United Kingdom of Great Britain(god bless the queen) had passed a long time ago... now there's only the shadow of it, stop trying to get back in times lol... without the colonization system, your country got raped by the US and now you're just a puppet of them... oh irony.
@VelperK This is nothing to do with colonialism, but to do with the rights of the Falklanders to choose their own government. This is something you seemingly do not understand or respect. British colonialism was largely wound down between the 50s and 70s, it has little relevance to today's generation, other than the international links that the newer generations can benefit from. You're incredibly deluded to believe that this is some attempt of Britain to return to the good old....
@VelperK ...colonial days (the Queen has relatively little relevance or say in UK politics by the way), you come across more as a bore who's watched Braveheart too many times, and got into far too many futile 'blood and soil' arguments, without ever considering the current situation of a land and it's people. Yes, history often was unfair... but it's history. The rest of the world moves on. Besides there's lots of empty space in Patagonia you can develop without harassing Falklands.
@dark108x I didn't meant that your govt. IS actually colonizing right now, but that it should give back its overseas possesions to their rightfull countries. I said that of the "God bless the queen" just because a lot of your compatriots (i guess you're british) still get in that propagandistic thing, despite we beign in the XXI century already. Also that of your country not wanting to go back to the old days... c'mon! all countries would be glad to go back to our best ages like the one...
@VelperK The Falkland Islands is not a righful posession of Argentina. It was abandoned by the French and Spanish empires and developed by the British. The colonial era is not especially thought of as the 'good old days' in British history - it directly benefitted only a minority, and the British are taught at school of the brutality of this era, though UK had obviously benefitted hugely and developed from the international trade. That's the difference between UK, France or Spain...
@VelperK ...and Slovakia, Finland or Romania. Both my grandparents emigrated to UK (other family actually emigrated to Buenos Aires where they still live) in the 1930s, and lived in relative poverty until the 1970s, so it's hard from a personal perspective to consider that era as being glorious in some way. British people are rather more proud of their courage during World War 2 than the colonial era. Many probably don't care about the Falklands, other than an unwanted occupation..
@dark108x What? You just said "The Falklands are british because I say so" cos that of the french and the spaniard leaving them islands isn't even an argument lol. Well, i'm not saying that your country was actually better in the colonial era than now, but that it was the richest country in the world by that time and therefore with the best GDP (to their citiziens living in the England part of the British isles)
@dark108x Ahhhh that common fallacy, of generalizing a whole country by a lonely anecdote! the fact that your grandparents COULD (dunno if you were lying) came over here and unfortunaly passed poverty, doesn't mean that the WHOLE country was like that. You don't show that of you not beign proud about the "british empire" and all that shit you know... lol. Oh right, again you accuse us of beign an insane nazi country that would kill all the Malvinas' citiziens if we get the islands... I see.
@dark108x ... ,for example, that we had between the end of the XVIII century and the dawn of the IX century... we were known as the "grain depot of the world" because of we taking a lot of advantage to the agrary part of our land. I agree in that we could take a lot of advantage to the Patagonia still, but that is another topic that I would difference with the Malvinas one... those islands have a lot of symbolistic value to us, wich of course was used a lot by politicians just for their profit.
@VelperK Please if you feel so strongly about your illegal claim to our Island then enlist in your shitty mickey mouse military, you will be handed a saucepan for a helmet and a catapult as your personal weapon, you will also be handed a very big white flag and some rosary beads that you can grasp when you cry for your 'Mama'! Theres a UK soldier on the Falklands with a bullet with your name on it should you wish to turn up ( never going to happen obviously, cowards! )
what is this Iland nation problem ? some one has to tell to england it is 2112 , they can not go around take over some one's home any longer . what is their fucking business that far south any ways.
TheAzeri1977 3 hours ago
IMF-Leaves Arg. over govt. mis-information
ARG-Raid on central bank by govt, "sinister" states congress head.
ARG-Union protestors "Beef" blockade, indefinitely
ARG-Highest cocaine consumer in latin americas
ARG-Clash with Spain over Oil Comp. YPF
ARG-Protestors violence at docked UK ship,Dockers strike.
ARG-CFK popularity plummets
ARG-Supreme court, illegal acts against opposition by Govt.
ARG GOVT-Accuse EU of making false remarks
EU-slams Arg. respect international trade
ashyk72 1 day ago
warning to uk navy ;;;;;; the argys have a big sub near the islands ;;;; oh no its ok its just the sunken belgrano lol
michaelkeeble1 1 day ago
According to the Arg. Constitution over 100,000 indigenous Mapuche are the legitimate owners of the lands in Patagonia. but Patagonia continues to be acquired by local elites and wealthy buyers for personal use or tourism
This policy not only runs counter to local laws and statutes enshrined in treaties such as the 2007 UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, but also demonstrates the link between EXPANSIONIST policies and non-preservation of the rights of indigenous peoples.
ashyk72 2 days ago
@TheNemestrinus
Yes, and also they're not bankrupt, chances are you don't even follow them and listen, instead you refer to your government sanction pravda propaganda machine for guidance, well done.
And UKIP are reactionaries, worthless, and don't even know who the real enemies are and are to afraid to be patriotic and nationalistic.
CelticAngloPress 3 days ago
to the UK...the only way to be "nice" with the islanders is that argentina should give up their claim and thats ridiculous...
Argentina has to be nice with the islanders but we wil never stop claiming the islands with all we can...
and in this times the UK is not in position to push...this is argentina's turn to push...
Zerc92 3 days ago
Guys... let's get back to topic shall we? ^^
VelperK 3 days ago
MALVINAS, /watch?v=ALeXzClEtzQ
nicoheiz 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Argentina are a bunch a big cry babies. Grow up you pricks, the people who live there don't want to be associated with your shitty tin-pot little 3rd world country. Get over it and move on.
estebanrey 4 days ago
Comment removed
estebanrey 4 days ago
PIRATS
nicoheiz 4 days ago
malvinas para siempre sigan siendo o no nuestras nos pertenecen.
sin violencia sin orgullo, MALVINAS ARGENTINAS
nicoheiz 4 days ago
@nicoheiz Fuck Argentina..Up the falklands
infidel1978 4 days ago
/watch?v=QnbdXWvmysg
On what are Brit. priority rights based?? In 1833 there was an extensive diplomatic dispute upon UK annexing the Malvinas. They then claimed the Malvinas based on the first colony in 1865. But the French were first in 1864 and sold/ceded the colony for the benefit of Buenos Aires. This is a detail and fact distorted and denied on? the UK Malvinas homepage, and by you as well. This is a deliberate line of deception and legal abuse, no wonder why UK does not engage in talks.
nicoheiz 4 days ago
@nicoheiz You mean 1764. It was ceded to the Spanish and when the Argies rebelled against the Spanish they lost any claims to the islands based on Spanish claims
aspiringdrummer17 4 days ago
MA L VI NAS
nicoheiz 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ARG-Clash with Spain over Oil Comp. YPF
ARG-Protestors violence at docked ship,Dockers strike.
ARG-CFK popularity plummets
ARG-Supreme court, illegal acts against opposition by Govt.
ARG GOVT-Accuse EU of making false remarks
EU-slams Arg. respect international trade
US-Arg. major money laundering country
ARG-Banned Cruise port, demands ban lifted
ARG-Dock strikes choke exports
US-Bonds,Judge sues Arg. Banks $650M
ashyk72 4 days ago
MALVINAS
nicoheiz 4 days ago
@nicoheiz Seh.
VelperK 4 days ago
@nicoheiz They're called The Falkland Islands mate.
AmboGuy 4 days ago
@AmboGuy
MALVINAS
nicoheiz 4 days ago
@nicoheiz fuck yeah
VelperK 4 days ago
@nicoheiz THE FALKLAND ISLAND ;)
englandareus 4 days ago
Again, for clearing this out... if we organize 10.000 argentinians to go to England, form a kind of 'colony' with our culture ofc and all... but suddenly they want to be part of Argentina! wouldn't you support them? you should, right?
VelperK 6 days ago
It's interesting that no Argies have come on here and been able to comment about the Beagle Conflict! Could it be that they realise that it shows them to be the bullies that they really are and there's no way to defend their actions?
AmboGuy 6 days ago
@AmboGuy That's a completely different issue, please stay on topic and stop posting fallacies of that kind like "I don't care about the Falklands issue, but you were some fucking bullies piece of trash third world you should all be nuked by some great power blah blah blah /derp" ... there are a lot of british dudes who say that, and i don't hesitate to tell them how idiot they are.
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK Oh but I think this is relevant my little third world friend. It shows that Argentina have a history of trying to steal land from other countries, this helps to explain the Argentinian way of thinking ie 'It's not mine but I want it'.
30 years ago Argentina had a lot of domestic problems so the ruling military junta decided that they would invade the Falkland Islands to divert attention from their own problems, come forward 30 years and again Argentina has a lot of domestic problems...
AmboGuy 6 days ago
@AmboGuy ...so that stupid bitch Kircher decides to talk about stealing the Falklands - and again you Argentinians fall for the same trick again!!! Wake up and realise that you are being played for fools.
AmboGuy 6 days ago
@AmboGuy What? stay on topic you idiot, and respond to my "scenario" you hypocrite.
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK I have stayed on topic you idiot. Argentina uses the Falklands as an excuse to pacify its people and take their mind off domestic problems whenever its economy is fucked. They did it 30 years ago and that whore Kirchner is trying it now to take matters off domestic problems again. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND??? Are you all so stupid you can't see that you are being used? You will never become a proper 1st world nation like the UK unless you try to use a bit of intelligence.
AmboGuy 6 days ago
@AmboGuy hahah poor fella, once again going off-topic. i know you don't have any other argument but hey, try to not make a fool of yourself. but if you want my response on that, yes, i know that kirchnner doesn't give a shit about the malvinas and that she uses it just for profit, like a lot of other politicians did. but if we have that in MIND and start actually discussing about the dispute, you'll see it from a different perspective ;)
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK OK I'll make things simple for you with two questions.
1) The people who live there want to remain under British control (it's called 'Self Determination'). They do NOT want to be under Argentina. Do their wishes count at all to you?
2) Argentina has NEVER owned The Falklands...ever. Argentina (itself a Spanish colony) did not even exist as a country when we had inhabited The Falklands. Why should we give you something that you have never owned?
Please answer each question for me.
AmboGuy 6 days ago
@AmboGuy Oh that's a better answer ;p
1) but of course they do not want to be part of Argentina, after all, they came from 10000 miles away and started fucking each other for over 200 years, enough time for spreading the "marvelous british culture, god save the queen, oh the glorious united kingdom of great britain" and blah blah blah. resuming, the self-determination thing does not apply to colonialists.
VelperK 6 days ago
@AmboGuy
2) Argentina did owned the Malvinas, check it in documents, books, internet articles and all the related stuff you'll find out that we actually did have a control over the malvinas, though it was very short but that doesn't mean we weren't there. people usually doesn't give it importance if it was owned for such a bit time, but they should.
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK So you're saying that you just don't care what the people there want? Wow - you're a really lovely person aren't you. Self Determination does apply. Argentina have never ever owned the Falklands! The argument that you 'inherited' them off the Spanish is laughable and worthy of my contempt.
Please don't start talking about colonialism, why do you think you speak spanish? Millons of indigenous people living in South America were wiped out by your ancestors so you should remember that eh?
AmboGuy 5 days ago
@AmboGuy ... Oh i heard that argument a lot of times, it's a bit shitty though but whatever. yes, you had TEMPORALY the islands before we formaly existed as a proper country... but what some people don't seem to realize is the fact that when we got the independence (1816) the malvinas were controlled by SPAIN and therefore, since the archipelago was part of the vicerroyalty of the rio de la plata, we inherited it.
now let's go to the logic of that argument itself...
VelperK 6 days ago
@AmboGuy ... -I don't understand why aren't you claiming a half of the world by now, since for you if the UK had putted its flag in its colonial lands before any actual country existed, those country should be punished and form part of GB again, right?
oh, if we get deeper with this argument you should also be part of Denmark right now. LOL
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK Just out of interest - are you a bit ashamed and embarrassed that the UK gives you millions of pounds a year in foreign aid? I find it strange that Argentina asks for money off rich countries like a street beggar whilst at the same time trying to steal from us.
AmboGuy 5 days ago
@AmboGuy those countries*
VelperK 6 days ago
@AmboGuy Since, if you want, I could post some 'moral' thingies that the UK have done in its short history... and they're not that much of "goodness" or nothing... xD.
See the level we get if we started to post other's moral things? it's stupid to debate history on this perspective. now please, once again, stay on topic and talk about THIS issue and not other stuff, thanks.
VelperK 6 days ago
They are one sour loosers. They tried to win by going to war but they were way to weak for the British.
And now they are trying to win by politic's even though the British lived there before Argentine became one nation.
Don't you see Argentine. Your claim eats it's self.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot I always laughed with the british arrogancy... "HAHAH FUCKING SHITHOLE THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WE CAN NUKE YOU ALL PIECE OF SHIT SADASDASD /i'm_an_idiot" ... why don't you go and declare war for getting back your "former colonies" of the US? HUH? fucking hypocrites and fainthearted... now, going back to topic, that thing of "DEFEND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE PLEASE, DON'T BE SO NAZI, DEFEND LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!!!!" ... fuck you. THINK for a bit please.
VelperK 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot ... The self-determination that the UN supports does NOT apply to the colonialists, I mean, about what self determination are we talking about? the one from some random dudes 10000 miles away who established in other's island just for imperialistic reasons, and stayed 200 years, enough time for fucking and spread their culture in order to now say "LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE PLEASE, ARGIES PIRATES COLONIALIST ASDASD /derp" ... hahahah
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK When you think about it there are colonies everywhere in some sence. Argentine speaks spanish not some native tongue, Canada is under British rule, same goes for Australia, Gibraltar, New Zealand and more. All of which can have there independence but they choose to stay with Britain.
Spain wants Gibraltar but Britain and the people living there have said no. What does Spain do then? They are not happy about it but they deal with it. They lost with honor, unlike the Argentines.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
The wast majority of the people living there are Falklanders/British. Wikipedia say's there are only 0.2% Argentines living there. You have no right to take something that is not yours and to take something that the people don't want. I mean for example, Icelanders found Greenland but we do not make any claims for it and you know why? The people there do not want oss as rulers. This we accept and we move on.
You lost but instead of losing like a gentleman you cryed to your mommy.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot :facepalm:
again, repeating, the territorials disputes are not decided by the "will of the people" . let me see if i get this right... lemme put you a hypothetical scenario, okay?
Argentina is an empire wich occupated a part of south England, stayed occupying it for 200 years and therefore that was enough time to GTFO to all the english, put our culture, make the people there drink mate and making them agree with the argentine rule from 10000 miles away from there.
VelperK 6 days ago
Wha? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahrem...hrmm....You do know you are talking to a student which experties is European history? You never ruled anything in Europe. The only ones who have ruled anything in Britain are Romans, Saxons and Normans and thats it. Not to mention the U.K qualifies in every thing when it comes to a first class nation. Argentine is a second class, Unless you have a civill war then you will be a third class.
Do comment more i enjoy a good laugh.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot And i enjoy your dumb answers.
i was putting out an hypothetical scenario.... did you read? YES, H-Y-P-H-O-T-H-E-T-I-C-A-L that means, a-historical. do you know where i put your "european studies" right? oh you should lol. STICK to the LOGIC of what i SAID not matter if it was REAL OR NOT.
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK So.....your saying that i should belive you no matter what? A small child that knows nothing about world politics, peoples liberties, history and land class?
I think ill pass :)
P.S. Yes the U.S is bigger then the U.K but learn what puppet means and comment back.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot oh the common ad hominem fallacy... yeah sure i'm all you want, but you should know that you didn't posted ANY argument there. you were like "oh my little poor kid, i'm an adult and i know this because these are adult stuff and you child should go back to school you know..." what a retrograd way of thinking. also don't think you won the discussion with that, my little friend.
VelperK 6 days ago
Nobody can truly win an arguement because then one would end up agreeing to the other person,that would be a "Win"As for world politics,the guy with the biggest mouth and the biggest gun has the most influence that would be the US A nation can befriend with another but that would not make them a puppet.As for land class,you called the UK a third class country when you have nothing to back that up.
Proves and facts are something im into. Now i would recomment more school for you though.
TheIcelandicPatriot 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot lol what? please quote exactly where i said they were a third world country please. yes i know they have a more advanced infrastructure and all, but we're gettin' there... maybe in some 50 years we could be in that level, i hope :p
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK HAHAH FUCKING SHITHOLE THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. You said that in i belive the first comment you wrote to me. Not saying that you really meant it but it was said none the less.
Look Argentine is a great country only a fool would deny it but none the less i see no Argentine legitimacy over the Falklands.
People despute over land everywere but it is allways useless unless the native people join the fight.
TheIcelandicPatriot 5 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot It was said in a representation of the average patriotic british guys saying shit against us here on youtube.
VelperK 5 days ago
@VelperK That may well be but can you blaim them? After all you attacked them so it is natural that some might hate you.
TheIcelandicPatriot 5 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot They start it, so I respond by telling them how idiot they're.
VelperK 5 days ago
@VelperK Please answer my question. Are you ashamed and embarrassed that your country has to beg for foreign aid money from my country??
AmboGuy 5 days ago
@AmboGuy And I'll say it, you're an idiot. that's another fallacy, wich ofc i'll refute.
Let make this clear, first of all, the aid that your GOVERNMENT is giving to our country (yes the govt. not the UK as a whole, we're not receiving anything from you or any other british guy lol) does NOT have anything to do with the Malvinas issue. please stay on-topic and stop pissing me off by saying shit wich doesn't have any relevance on the primary theme xD
VelperK 5 days ago
@VelperK And how do you think our government gets its money? From the UK tax payer - o you ARE receiving money from me you idiot!!! I am paying to subsidise poor countries like yours who come begging for money.
You never answered my question - are you ashamed you have to beg for money from the UK?
AmboGuy 4 days ago
@AmboGuy Lol. I meant that you don't go to any charity campaign and start donating money to Argentina, nobody in the UK gives a fuck about us, what the govt. does with your and all british' taxes isn't a problem for you so no, invalid answer again. No i'm not "ashamed" since it's just not the money from people, you just don't give a fuck about us and do not wanna know what the fuck the govt. does with the money, so gtfo and focus concretely in the dispute nothing else.
VelperK 4 days ago
@AmboGuy And previously you said: "So you're saying that you just don't care what the people there want?" ... that's the typical "fallacy of the straw man", changing my whole point of view by adding stetical things to your favor and making you look like the winner of the discussion. No I did NOT said that the kelper shouldn't be allowed to have their own government. if they join Argentina somewhen, they'll manage their stuff how they want to. we have a semi-federalist system so there you go.
VelperK 5 days ago
@AmboGuy Also no, we are not some nazi country wich aims to get the islands and put the kelper all in a poison gas room LOL. as i said in previous comments, we don't put a shotgun in some italian's dude, tell him to speak spanish with argentine accent, drink mate, watch footbal every sunday and dance tango you know...
VelperK 5 days ago
@VelperK They started it? Not here to cause pain but they did not. You attacked by landing your troops on there shores and just as any country did they acted in defence.
I do not remember any British attacks in the 20'th century against Argentine.
TheIcelandicPatriot 4 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot I meant they always start the flames here, on youtube...
VelperK 4 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot also, do not put words in my mouth: "You attacked by landing your troops on there shores" we, the people, didn't want to attack the islands but a dictatorship wich needed a LOT of flavour since it was in a decadent status. yes, there could be some celebrations in the streets and all, but have in mind that they were all brainwashed by Galtieri and his monkeys. there were a lot of people who opposed this agressive act.
VelperK 4 days ago
@VelperK And yet post tyrant Argentine still lay claims to the island.
TheIcelandicPatriot 4 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot "A small child that knows nothing about world politics, peoples liberties, history and land class?" But wait, do you KNOW me? have we EVER meet in person and chatted this staff properly, rather than just debatin with a 500 characters limiter? lol. what an idiot. well i didn't said that of "puppet" in the ACTUAL sense of the word... okay let's go a step lower and say they're in their... sphere of influence. that fits you better, doesn't it?
VelperK 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot Lol you poor dumbass, the UK is now a US puppet, they follow their wars and stick to what they command you... oh irony.
VelperK 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot ...now, England is a third world country wich ofc has little-none influence on the world. that's why the world community doesn't give a shit about it and they just wash their hands. they constantly claim their stolen land, and also do not like that overseas possesion from part of Argentina, but of course the last one supports "the will of the people" and treat England as a colonialist country. would you say that's a good thing coming from Argentina?
VelperK 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot Also, one more thing, a lot of British dudes actually THINK that bullshit of we beign in a dictatorship still and the govt. killing the opposicion and all that shit... hahahahha xDD. we stoped that a long time ago, it's not like that if we get the islands somewhen we're going to kill all the kelper, no. i support respecting their culture and all. we don't say any german to speak spanish with argentine accent, start drinking mate, watch football and dance tango you know... xD
VelperK 6 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot not really just unlucky. uk was lucky enough that one of their ships carrying a nuclear weapon didn't get hit by an exocet. If that happened there would be no so called falklands or malvinas. Eventually it seems man kind will destroy itself in a fit of deranged madness. Let things go friends. History is doomed to repeat itself if we cant just let go and turn the other cheek
acp1778 4 days ago
@acp1778 O yea it should be fine. Aliens have taken London what should we do!?
O we will be fine.
Am i reading your comment correctly? So if someone attacks your country your willing to just take it? What type of Englishman are you?
P.S. Im sure you are well aware that the British had better ships. But they did not think much about this so they sent second hand vessels in to actions.
In fact that is a good way to test the strenght and the will of the enemy.You won them with second hand stuff.
TheIcelandicPatriot 3 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot So if someone attacks your country your willing to just take it? Interesting everything on earth has a cause and a reaction. "Karma". We cannot deny that we have gone over to other countries and imposed our ways. This is why europeans are hated and americans as well. Secondly the military had no better ships, Why do you think they borrowed a freaking tourist cruising ship. Under thatcher the military was considerably downsized to bare bones.
acp1778 3 days ago
@acp1778 This is the British empire we are talking about, you do know that right?
Every general, every captain in the world knows that when someone attacks you you have to test there strenght. There for you don't use your ase of spade in the first round.
And i don't belive in karma, i belive in free will and that every man makes his own destiny.
You say the U.K military was crap back then well i say it did not want to risk there fancy stuff when they could simply throw in something else.
TheIcelandicPatriot 3 days ago
@TheIcelandicPatriot We can fight them with our flying scrap yard again... Bring back the Vulcans...
FP51DPO 8 hours ago
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Las islas son de Argentina, los kelper son una poblacion transplantada. Es una evidencia mas de las 4 intento de invacion de inglaterra a la Argentina, 3 fueron derrotados, y una usurparon las islas malvinas expulsando a la poblacion civil argentina que vivia alli. Piratas ingleses devuelvan lo que no les pertenece, son de Argentina.
faustto333 1 week ago
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US-Bonds,Judge sues Arg. Banks $650M
PARAG-Plans to chop import from Arg. as Urug. looks elsewhere
MERCO-Waters "I was mis-quoted"
US-Arg. set to lose significant trade benefits with US
UK-Brit. Gen.- Arg. could try to take airstrip
Chile-Arg. flight proposal is "attempt to look less mean"
Arg-Vice pres. "Get Falklands back"
Arg-govt. pressures Union boss, investigates his family.
Arg.govt.-Capital Mayor blasts own Govt "THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY"
ashyk72 1 week ago
Comment removed
ashyk72 1 week ago
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ARGENTINA HAS A HISTORY OF TRYING TO STEAL ISLANDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES!!! Go to google and do a search for 'BEAGLE CONFLICT'. It shows how Argentina refused to accept a binding international agreement to give these islands to Chile and nearly went to wart over it - sound familiar? This is just history repeating itself all over again.
AmboGuy 1 week ago
fuck the Argentinians.
MrRagingbovine 1 week ago
@MrRagingbovine Go to hell british
tekodandy 1 week ago
@tekodandy go fuck yourself you nazi hiding scum
MrRagingbovine 1 week ago
@MrRagingbovine if I am a Nazi willing to kill everyone English I see
tekodandy 6 days ago
@tekodandy Showing your true colours..
brazenward 6 days ago
The Falklands are a British protectorate ?
Wooohoooo...they just found billions of ££££'s worth of oil in the surrounding seas, fantastic, fantastic. Tough luck Argentina.
acrassboy 1 week ago
@acrassboy odd how they renew their claims after they find out theres oil there too.
sayhitodeath999 1 week ago
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ashyk72 1 week ago
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The British victory in the Falkland War was a victory of justice and freedom! It was not only a victory for the people of the Falkland Islands and their right of self dertimination, but also for the people of Argentinia (even if they refsue to see this now), because the British victory was the beginning of the end of the brutal military dictatorship.
sceptiquele 1 week ago
If Argentinia would respect democracy they would respect the will of thge majority of the population on these Islands to remain British. It's Argentinia, who is acting like a greedy colonist here.
sceptiquele 1 week ago
@sceptiquele go to read, coksucker!!
BAAV25DEMAYO 1 week ago
@sceptiquele What people don't seem to understand, according to yours and a lot of other similar comments, is that the will of the people is a shitty argument to apply here since the BRITISH were the "greedy colonialists" here... you'll see, if we look back to history, you'll find out that the UK got possesion of the archipelago when actually WAS habited of argentine people... go and check it for yourself. ;D... You can't apply self determination to colonialism, okay?
VelperK 1 week ago
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The people who live on these islands are descended from the British in the same way the Americans, Canadians and Australians are. The Argentinians are descended from the Spanish. It's the result of colonialism that's now a part of history.
The islanders could choose independence, but instead choose to be a British Overseas Territory. That choice should be respected. Argentina would force an unwanted and oppressive government on these people, which makes no sense in 2012.
anicetune 1 week ago
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anicetune 1 week ago
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anicetune 1 week ago
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anicetune 1 week ago
Exactly how many Argentines were living in the Falklands before 1833? And what happened to the French (Bretons) who named the islands for the Spanish?
TheOdessaSteps 1 week ago
well that last comment of yours saying that we were "cowards" and that i should join our "mickey mouse" militare we have, wasn't exactly an argument, don't you think?...
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. they were british by SOME time before we formally existed as a country, but i just highligted SOME because by the time we got the independence, those islands were not yours, but SPANISH, and since we got the independence in 1816 with the malvinas beign part of spain...
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Ok so what you are saying is that Spain and not Argentina has a right to claim sovereignty over the Falklands? If thats the case then why dont they say so? You have admitted that the Falkland Islands were British and existed before Argentina was formed, so how can you continue to arge that Argentina has a legitimate claim?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou I think I pretty much explained why in my previous comments, please take your time not just for reading them, but for understanding them as well too.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Velper that is just hypothetical? Firstly, any raiders from Denmark, Norway,Sweden etc just did that, they 'raided', they turned up, killed a load and nicked a load of stuff then went back home. The 'Romans' as you say were not representative of one country, they were comprised of a mass of different European nationalities and cultures etc..I simply do not understand why you genuinely believe that Argentina has a legitimate claim over the Falklands?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou You're wrong in that, check some history files and you'll find out that these Saxons actually established some settlements in the British isles after kicking the romans out from the south of England, for finally beign expulsed by "William the Conqueror" in 1066 approximately.
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou But if we are going to point out who are the legitimate owners basing ourselves in the "who was before who" argument, then we should go back before the roman invasion to the isles, where there were the famous Celts tribes, wich fiercely defended their land against the romans.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Velper i think you are going way off the track at the moment..I honestly cannot see how a country can claim sovereignty over another, if that other existed before them? Its like if for some strange reason a piece of rock popped up from the ocean today on the Argentinian coastline and people went to live on there but then said that Argentina belonged to them? It wouldnt make sense?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou Well I just posted my thoughs on that point of view by posting some good rethoric questions, I think that the "who was before who" argument doesn't have any legitimacy because if that was the case, then the UK would be in constant warfare with their ancient colonies on North America because you established your flag first there than the actual yanks. that's what i don't see this statement as a valid one.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK That's why*
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK No thats not the same argument because the Americans beat us and kicked us out of North America, we no longer were able to maintain a permanent prescence therefore we had no letimacy. The Argentinan flag has never flown over the Falklands, not once and yet Argentinans are taught from a young age that the Falklands belongs to them? I do not understand?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou I'm not calling for the reasons wich made the first country who established its flag first go away from the land, but the logic itself. Dunno if you got my point now...
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK To set the matter straight please list for me the main reasons why you believe the Falklands to have always belonged to Argentina, because we are going off tangent a bit referring to the US etc
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou It was a comparative example, as I told you already (that of the US). But if you want something deeper we could say that all the world should be part of some african union, since there were the first homo-sapiens who ever lived on this planet, wich of course migrated throughout all the world. Well, I said in previous comments, my our PRINCIPAL reasons for having the archipelago are...
-Because of historical claims: we reached to the islands in 1820, after we got independence...
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ...in 1816, we inherited all the territory that was in the Rio de la Plata vicerroyalty of Spain, including of course the Malvinas, because they actually WERE part of the spanish sovereignity, and your govt. also signed a treaty expressing their possitive opinion toward this... so, we stayed until 1833, time in wich the yanks got mad at us because we not allowing their (neither the british or even ourselves) whales hunting ships, wich was a VERY preciate resource...
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ...in the market by the time. Well, as I was saying, the yanks took tactical advantage on our Malvinas' garrison and dispersed them all, so we now couldn't had any order on the islands... and now comes the good part, you guys took advantage of those US riots in the islands for getting down here and finally establishing a former colony and cast all the citiziens who were living down here... replacing them with BRITISH dudes. I mean, ofc that they won't agree with beign part...
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ... of Argentina, after all, they came from the other part of the world lol. (what i'm trying to say is that the rights of self-determination do NOT apply in colonial cases, check the UN if you have any doubts about it) well, that is the historical claim, but in the other hand is the geographical...
-Geographical claims: the Malvinas islands are at an enormous difference respecting distances, Argentina-Malvinas: 400 km. - UK - "Falklands": 12000 km. (approx)...
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ...I mean, why in God's sake should be legitimate a colonial power claim? seriously, what fu***** bussiness do you have 10000 Miles away from your homeland? if you want to be british, stay in that big island of yours in Europe, but don't spread your "great culture" all over the world... it's really pathetic to support colonialism in these times. well, sorry, that was on one side, now the principal geographical reason though is that the archipelago IS in our continental...
VelperK 1 week ago
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sceptiquele 1 week ago
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@VelperK
Who are the colonists here? Who wants to conquer an island far away from their own territory against the will of the people living there?
The main difference between Britain and Argentinia in this war was that the Argentinians were fighting for the islands while the British were fighting for the islanders. It's not hard to decide as non-Argentinian and as a non-British who got my sympathies.
sceptiquele 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ...platform, and by that I meant the extended Patagonic plateau wich extend below the level of the sea... and it reaches the Malvinas for your information, yes. Just research it for yourself. The UN does support us in this issue of the plateau also.
okay there you go, i just explained what I saw as the principal reasons for why we should be the owners of the Malvinas, and not the UK. btw, I don't have anything about the UK's people, but his govt.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Velper you have just lost your argument by saying that it is purely geography which entitles your claim...thats ridiculous
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou No, read my below comments too, they complement themselves: historical+geographical claims... we can't base our reclaims in just ONE argument.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Yes but Velper you are saying that even though the Falklands existed and was a UK dependency before the country of Argentina was formed that simply because it is on the same geographical line then it must then surely belong to Argentina? It doesnt make sense? How can a country that didnt exist before another one ( Falklands ) then claim afterwards that they have a legitimate claim simply due to their location?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou Well, what i'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter wheter if we existed before or after you, if that was the case, you SHOULD give Gibraltar back to Spain, since the United Kingdom was formally created in the IX century, and Spain in XVI... lol. Now, do you understand my point Porky? also, no, if it was just for geographical claims that we're basing our interests, that would be a little weird indeed. But have in mind our HISTORICAL claims too, read them in my below comments.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Well Velper if it isnt for geographical claims then how can it be for historical claims? The Islands were British before Argentina existed? And as for Gibraltar, I think thats an argument best left to have between Spanish and English people, the reason? Because in the reverse of your argument, Spain did in fact have legitimacy of Gibraltar and youre right they do have a case against us, but Argentina never had any claim on the Falklands?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou Hmmm, but what i'm trying to say is that the logic of your argument is not valid just because of that. So do you think that the UK should give back Gibraltar to Spain?
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK In my opinion the UK has no legal right to claim ownership of Gibraltar, it did belong to Spain, history tells us that unequivocally, not through rumour,supposition or vague references to unqualifiable claims, its fact. Unlike Argentinas claims against the Falklands which has none of the above to support its arguments. But in the 21st Century it should be upto the Islanders in both examples to decide and not politicians.
MrPorkydanjou 6 days ago
@MrPorkydanjou Hmmm... I find it rather interesting that you're not agree with the UK colonialism of Gibraltar, but yes of the Malvinas Islands. "through rumour,supposition or vague references to unqualifiable claims" Please Porky, go to your closest library and ask to the receptionist for some books about the British imperialism, or better, about the Malvinas issue... and you'll find out that what you're saying is wrong.
VelperK 6 days ago
@MrPorkydanjou "But in the 21st Century it should be upto the Islanders in both examples to decide and not politicians." so this completely contradicts you in the Gibraltar matter, since you said it shouldn't be part of the United Kingdom, or am I wrong?
VelperK 6 days ago
@VelperK No my opinion on the Gibraltar matter is consistent, it doesnt lawfully belong to my country, sad as it is for me to say it, but the Falklands does belong to the UK, I cant be any clearer than that can I ?
MrPorkydanjou 6 days ago
@MrPorkydanjou I just did go for the logic of your argument, because if you say that the population should decide wheter they wanna be part of Ponyville or north korea, and that its point of view is above all, then your possition saying that Gibraltar is lawfully spanish is totally contradicted... i can't be any clearer than that... ;P
VelperK 6 days ago
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Falk-ceremony as last of 20000 Arg. mines on islands
Arg -try to change "1999 accord" to regulate flights to falklands
UK Govt.-Falkland Govt. will decide on Arg. planned flights
Falk.-who decided on cruise ban?
ARG.-Arg. Mayor blasts own Govt "This is not democracy"
EU vice-chairman,- All EU aid to Arg. should stop while The Falklands are threatened
Arg.-govt boycott UK imports
Arg.-Govt opposition and UK, blast over cruise ban
Arg.-bars two cruises UK & US owned,"Economic Suicide"
ashyk72 1 week ago
Why do the UK want this really boring place. Its not like its that brilliant or much of a fun place and it looks fucking boring anyway.
jabeoo1 1 week ago
@jabeoo1 why should it bother you,your not an argie are you.british people live there.END OF.
cra1234cor 1 week ago
These are arguments? What because you dont like them then theyre not arguments??
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou
your point is?
tiberio135 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou they are not arguments because they're pure insults and jokes so stfu or post real stuff.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Why are they jokes and insults? The Falkland Islands were British before Argentina ever existed? Thats fact, not an insult or joke?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou ... we can legitimately say that those islands are our, because we inherited all the territory that was called the "Vicerroyalty of the Rio de la Plata" wich of course includes the malvinas islands..
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Im sorry, are you admitting that the Falklands belonged to the British before Argentina existed? If so then there is no more argument to be had?
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou No i'm not saying that, and yes, there is more argument to be had because it's stupid to think that because you own a piece of soil before other country, that legitimate belongs to that one. with that logic you should be claiming the US right now, as Spain should do so with her ancient colonies in south america, don't you think?
VelperK 1 week ago
@MrPorkydanjou and in fact, with that logic, Denmark should be claiming the british isles because the Saxons tribe from that part of the world were the ones who GTFO'd the romans and established in the past. don't you agree Porky?
VelperK 1 week ago
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Ilegales son los que
dejaron ir a Pinochet Inglaterra se jactaba de su honor y de su ley
LeAmbrosioFiadone 1 week ago
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Disturbing news, entire argentine amphibious special forces has formed on shore at rio gallegos
there launch was slightly delayed as they both could not decide which one had to sit by the taps, with their tactical equipment containing one oar and a bath plug the argentine navy departed to the excitement of the crowd, armed with a surface to air spud gun battle with the UK navy is expected to be brief, before landing on the falklands and greeted as liberators by the oppressed Falklanders.
ShitStirring 1 week ago
@aminah487 Well, at least you're consistent. Although since Spain has governed the Canary Islands for 500 years, I think they have a good claim to it.
dark108x 1 week ago
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ARG. Capital city Mayor blasts own Govt "This is not democracy"
EU vice-chairman, All EU aid to Arg. should stop while The Falklands are threatened
Arg. govt tell national & international business and industry to boycott UK imports
Arg. Govt opposition and UK, blast over cruise ban
Arg. displeased over marine restrictions around UK sandwich islands
Arg. bars two cruises UK & US owned, from docking, to the anger of port city official calling it an act of "Economic Suicide"
ashyk72 1 week ago
@aminah487 It is NOT like Argentina claiming the isle of Man...think about it.......=)
Chrisxxxtz 1 week ago
Cristina Fernadez's inability to speak English (the world's only global language), diminishes both her and her nation's stature on the world stage.
Chownachompoo 1 week ago
I've read a lot of comments from both sides and kept an open mind, but I have seen no reasonable arugments as to why the Falkland Islands should be governed by Argentina. Just a lot of cursing over 'colonial Britian' (which was wound down some 40-50 years ago) and the Queen (who doesn't have a huge influence in British policy). Can the pro-Malvinas camp just come clean and admit that this is just down to a long-term grudge against the UK?
dark108x 1 week ago
Plus the whole 'colonial' argument... this is about what is happening NOW, not what was done THEN. Rejecting a long-settled populations decision over which government they choose sounds like fascism to me. If the Falklanders wanted to join Argentine, I would respect their position, but they don't, so Argentina should respect theirs.
dark108x 1 week ago
@dark108x well, that's a nice comment you have made... this is what i think about that point of view: you would say it's ok if we organize 100.000 argentine people to go and indirectly occupy a little part of England, "colonize" the land (putting cartels of Maradona, dancing Tango and stuff xD), stay for like 200 years, and then say: "we want our own government now! we have our own culture, we don't want to be in the UK's country anymore, even though we live in their geographical position"?
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK If Argentina colonised and developed an uninhabited island 400km from the coast of the UK, then yes, I would respect their claim. I'm curious, do you also have problems with Spain's claim to the Canary Islands (closer to Morocco) or France's claim to Saint Pierre and Miquelon (off the coast of Canada)?
dark108x 1 week ago
@dark108x Iet me clarify your ignorance, we are not claiming the Malvinas JUST because the abismal difference between distances that we have with them, compared to the UK-"falklands" but because they are in the Patagonic plateau, and that's the principal reason in the geographic question of this...
also, yes i think those countries should give these possesions the status of independent countries, since they don't have a record of beign held by someone else but those old colonial powers.
VelperK 1 week ago
@dark108x PD: the geographical and historical reasons complement themselves, we don't claim the islands basing us just in ONE or the OTHER argument alone.
VelperK 1 week ago
@dark108x PD/PD: i guess your country's govt should stop with this thing of colonizing lands and all, those good times for the United Kingdom of Great Britain(god bless the queen) had passed a long time ago... now there's only the shadow of it, stop trying to get back in times lol... without the colonization system, your country got raped by the US and now you're just a puppet of them... oh irony.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK This is nothing to do with colonialism, but to do with the rights of the Falklanders to choose their own government. This is something you seemingly do not understand or respect. British colonialism was largely wound down between the 50s and 70s, it has little relevance to today's generation, other than the international links that the newer generations can benefit from. You're incredibly deluded to believe that this is some attempt of Britain to return to the good old....
dark108x 1 week ago
@VelperK ...colonial days (the Queen has relatively little relevance or say in UK politics by the way), you come across more as a bore who's watched Braveheart too many times, and got into far too many futile 'blood and soil' arguments, without ever considering the current situation of a land and it's people. Yes, history often was unfair... but it's history. The rest of the world moves on. Besides there's lots of empty space in Patagonia you can develop without harassing Falklands.
dark108x 1 week ago
@dark108x Ooops, I meant "the end of the IX century and the dawn of the XX century..." :P
VelperK 1 week ago
@dark108x I didn't meant that your govt. IS actually colonizing right now, but that it should give back its overseas possesions to their rightfull countries. I said that of the "God bless the queen" just because a lot of your compatriots (i guess you're british) still get in that propagandistic thing, despite we beign in the XXI century already. Also that of your country not wanting to go back to the old days... c'mon! all countries would be glad to go back to our best ages like the one...
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK The Falkland Islands is not a righful posession of Argentina. It was abandoned by the French and Spanish empires and developed by the British. The colonial era is not especially thought of as the 'good old days' in British history - it directly benefitted only a minority, and the British are taught at school of the brutality of this era, though UK had obviously benefitted hugely and developed from the international trade. That's the difference between UK, France or Spain...
dark108x 1 week ago
@VelperK ...and Slovakia, Finland or Romania. Both my grandparents emigrated to UK (other family actually emigrated to Buenos Aires where they still live) in the 1930s, and lived in relative poverty until the 1970s, so it's hard from a personal perspective to consider that era as being glorious in some way. British people are rather more proud of their courage during World War 2 than the colonial era. Many probably don't care about the Falklands, other than an unwanted occupation..
dark108x 1 week ago
@VelperK ...by another land and government being an obvious breach of human rights.
dark108x 1 week ago
@dark108x What? You just said "The Falklands are british because I say so" cos that of the french and the spaniard leaving them islands isn't even an argument lol. Well, i'm not saying that your country was actually better in the colonial era than now, but that it was the richest country in the world by that time and therefore with the best GDP (to their citiziens living in the England part of the British isles)
VelperK 1 week ago
@dark108x Ahhhh that common fallacy, of generalizing a whole country by a lonely anecdote! the fact that your grandparents COULD (dunno if you were lying) came over here and unfortunaly passed poverty, doesn't mean that the WHOLE country was like that. You don't show that of you not beign proud about the "british empire" and all that shit you know... lol. Oh right, again you accuse us of beign an insane nazi country that would kill all the Malvinas' citiziens if we get the islands... I see.
VelperK 1 week ago
@dark108x ... ,for example, that we had between the end of the XVIII century and the dawn of the IX century... we were known as the "grain depot of the world" because of we taking a lot of advantage to the agrary part of our land. I agree in that we could take a lot of advantage to the Patagonia still, but that is another topic that I would difference with the Malvinas one... those islands have a lot of symbolistic value to us, wich of course was used a lot by politicians just for their profit.
VelperK 1 week ago
@VelperK Please if you feel so strongly about your illegal claim to our Island then enlist in your shitty mickey mouse military, you will be handed a saucepan for a helmet and a catapult as your personal weapon, you will also be handed a very big white flag and some rosary beads that you can grasp when you cry for your 'Mama'! Theres a UK soldier on the Falklands with a bullet with your name on it should you wish to turn up ( never going to happen obviously, cowards! )
MrPorkydanjou 1 week ago