The Primacy of Consciousness (4 of 7)

[Vikt0rEremita]

big-ups to spinoza, leibniz, kant, and the german idealists who already systematically worked this out centuries ago.

[sbtg728]

Im confused on the part of what we experience in our mind is not really what happens in reality. Im sitting here eating rice...is this not really rice? is this something my mind made up? So does that mean we all have the same mind? Because if i ask someone "hey, is this rice?" they'll say "yeah thats rice" sooooo im so confused. What is reality then. Is there a reality? I feel like high right now

[iphgfqweio]

Just zombies, laughing at the right point. :D

[4spaced]

@nezz752000: His conclusions are baffling. That's why they're laughing: it's truly incredible.

[KTK401]

@4spaced

Dr John Hagelin explains some of it here, from a slightly different perspective.

watch?v=OrcWntw9juM&feature=mf­u_in_order&list=UL

watch?v=FSxluvq5HI0&feature=re­lated

regards!

[hipstarchild]

1/10th of a second.

That's interesting.

An ET intellegence with faster mind processing powers over human beings, then they could be 1/10 of a second ahead of us all the time.

1/10th of a second is all it takes for a situation to suddenly change for the good or for the worse.

Hmmmm

[Guuster00]

in reality nothing has a meaning, it only means something when we, ourself give it meaning with our mind. life/reality is actually meaningless, isn't that a nice thing? :)

[metedude2]

@nezz752000 lol I think some of them are a little drunk :) I agree, it's distracting

[jagg1951]

You talk about light as if it was necessary for consciousness but many people are blind and cannot see any light yet they are conscious.

[avedic]

@jagg1951 Light is necessary for matter to be what it is to us. Even a blind person exists as matter. They may not be able to see the visible spectrum, but it still exists. Even sighted people cannot see gamma rays, yet that doesn't impinge on the existence of gamma rays. Hope that made sense.

[jagg1951]

@avedic

Since one can be made to "see" by stimulating the brain and in the absence of light, does light really exist at all?

When we dream we create an entire universe filled with planets and people and sights and sounds, which upon wakening did not exist except as the firing of synapses. Who is to say that the reality is not just so. That the energies involved in the make up of the sub atomic particles of the universe are just the firing of synapses.

[avedic]

@jagg1951 I agree. But, we're talking about two different things. Objective light, whatever that is. And subjective PERCEPTION of light...which isn't ever light itself.

[jagg1951]

@avedic

Can we ever see "light" without it being just a PERCEPTION of light? Is there such thing as demons and ghosts and extra terrestials and other dimensions? Or is the reality that what we perceive of as life is just a dream. Just the firing of synapses, whatever that is, And we awake and the dream never existed as anything other than a thought. Could all we perceive of as life be just a thought?

[avedic]

@jagg1951 And that's the mystery. :) Once you really dig into reality and ask those sort of questions you realize two things. One...just how flimsy "reality" is. We barely know what we're even dealing with. When you let go of the mental and social norms that dictate most behavior, you confront the mystery head on. And two...you realize how inept words are at describing reality. Words are symbolic representations of an ineffable reality. But often we use words to describe things we cannot know.

[jagg1951]

@avedic

So we recognize this mystery of the illusion we call life and yet we must play our part within the boundaries and paramaters of this "virtual reality" game we are a part of. The bible says "We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in nhigh places" how appropriate is that verse for this understanding of the illusion of reality.

[avedic]

@jagg1951 Quite appropriate. I'm not religious at all. I think all religions, every single one of them, are cults that have alot of followers. Anyone who pretends to KNOW the deepest truths of existence has lost all credibility in my eyes. But...I think all religious texts are vitally important for understanding consciousness...like you mentioned. Mainly because, until recently, science didn't touch consciousness. Spiritual paths have learned alot...through trial and error...and are important.

[jagg1951]

@avedic

How about this biblical deep truth.

These three remain Faith hope and Love and the greatest is love.

Only NOW exists. We have faith now in our memories of a past gone forever.

We have hope now in our spirit for a future that is not here and never will be because when it arrives it will be now.

Why is Love the greatest? Because we can only use it NOW to build a better future with all our nows.

All this to enjoy our perception of reality NOW.

[kryckeestrooff]

Oh My !!! I'm not here, so you are not seeing this comment which, I couldn't possibly have typed!!!

People will buy into any load of bollocks and what's even more sad is they'll even pay with their hard earnt money to listen to it. Enlightened my Ass, Scammed would be closer to the truth and more so than anything I could not of heard here, because it's not real, and I was never here.

[jagg1951]

@kryckeestrooff

Just like the people in my dream were never there. But while they may not ever have existed in reality, they were in my dream, just as though you may deny it, you are in my perception of reality, my dream.

[avedic]

i believe the universe is like an hourglass. the narrow part in the middle represents BOTH the big bang singularity..and the eventual convergence of all consciousness in the universe as technology is used to do MORE within SMALLER substrates..eventually birthing infinite consciousness in practically nothing. then, the cycle begins anew. Or rather, every stage of the cycle is "happening"..now, always. the top and bottom of the hourglass are the same thing..the most separate state of consciousness

[metedude2]

@avedic nice, thanks for the comment. sounds like your theory would somewhat agree with terence mckenna's views on increasing complexity :)

[avedic]

@metedude2 hehe...yeah, im a mckenna devotee through and through. thanks for the video. excellent lecture.

[kryckeestrooff]

@avedic So what lays outside the hourglass? You can't say nothing because that would imply something, and given the universe is everything everywhere, it cannot possibly have a set form. Get off the drugs and wake up to reality!

[avedic]

@kryckeestrooff  the hourglass is just a convenient way to imagine a form that is multidimensional. Much like a hypercube doesn't actually look like a cube. How does this have anything to do with drugs?

[NatalieCoon]

@avedic I like that viewpoint. I don't think I've ever heard it described that way. It definitely coincides with Ray Kurweil's idea of the singularity.

[jagg1951]

@avedic

Who flips the hourglass over? God? hahahaha

[clovek456]

Mind in itself isnt the creator of the experience but the outside world which exist quite differently than how the mind interprets it..the truth is that the world doesnt exist becaouse it is dependent od the mind..in oher words it tells us that there is "something" out there but in truth there is absolutely nothing..???

[clovek456]

So it means that there are three realities one that isnt touched by our mind another that is the product of our mind and yet third that is plainly sensual..the body..be it the stone molecule or any other "unit"..is that so?

[deanmullen10]

The less conscious you are the more you see of what is the true world.

[deanmullen10]

So when I see a person, they are in my head and yet I am in their head too... WOW!:)

[deanmullen10]

My overall view of the world is, the Universe is one of an infintie amount of Multiverses and that is 1 multiverse of infinite making up MultiMultiVerse (M2V) then onto M3V and all the way onto MInfinityV, and yet all this is one, but w/ the illusion of space time it appears seperate and who knows this could all be a dream, and an infinite amount of dreams within dreams and the true surface world can never be reached. we can answer the questions but comprehending it is the hard part :)

[sorrypapawxz]

This is so interesting.

[r052476577]

Jai Hind, long live the hindus

[TheLovesoul1]

high everybody.

[fedner31]

Based on these observations of experience, there cannot possibly be such a thing as "God" or "gods".

[cronicjointpain]

@fedner31 how do you figure that?

[fedner31]

@cronicjointpain Well, perhaps I should say that "God" is not necessarily real. Everything we know is an experience. It's almost impossible to observe reality in a truly objective way, because we interpret it based on how we experience it. If I pray for a sign from "God", and a rainbow appears, I might be having a divine experience, which can't be denied.The cause of the rainbow, in spite of my feelings about it, is still a banal, natural occurrence. See what I mean?

[cronicjointpain]

@fedner31 yeah i got you, but you said Based on these observations of experience, there cannot possibly be such a thing as "God" or "gods, oh i guess you write, i must have misread it, but i do think there is a god, or gods, but i don't believe any religion has it write, i mean there just books, anybody could have wrote them, and yeah there may have been things that came true that were said in the bible, but it doesn't necessarily mean god gave that wisdom to people, and then they wrote it down

[fedner31]

@cronicjointpain I'm referring to the act of observing experience. Real or not, the experience is undeniable. I like how you think though. Question everything and everyone. As for religious interpretation of "God", you're spot on! If there's such a thing, it's nothing like what was thought to be.

[cronicjointpain]

@fedner31 i don't know, i guess we will never truly know, i personally believe in the ancient astronaut theory, and i believe it is very likely that aliens created us, or improved our ancestors genes, to create humans, but that still leaves the question, if they created us, who created them? or the universe? you know, its all just speculation, and perspective.

[turbo2558]

Dualism. Absurd. 

[Machew4Life]

y do they laugh!~??

[jwilla11]

@Machew4Life Because they are zombies.

[BlackCollarMedia]

Quantum Mechanics aside, I swear the visual aid that comes in at 0:52 is just a pound and a half of raw ground beef squished into the shape of a brain. (food for thought?).

[The2012phenomneon]

do you ever notice we have so many questions about the world like I have so many to ask about consciousness but there just so difficult to explain using the English language.

Also I do believe every atomic combination creates consciousness, so an atom has a thought, another atom has a thought and the two atoms togheter is a completely different thought.

So if you get me to say, 1+1=2 is not always true, as in this way 1+1=X and X could equals 3 for example, so having the idea makes sense.

[D4R3W]

our consciounes moves through a small piece of everything and percieves it as time

[mdeioma]

Matter is made of love

[PALTOOL1111]

the buddha compared the universe to a vast net woven of a countless variety of brilliant jewels, each with a countless number of facets. each jewel reflects in itself every other jewel in the net and is, in fact, one with every other jewel....

[whitenightf3]

If we are not in the Now then where in the heck are we? I know from Libet's experiments that we experience reality on a subconsious level before we experience it consciously. That is how tennis players can get to a ball that is travelling at them at 140 mps, they knew before the ball was served where it was going to land. That gives rise to the question surrounding Freewill, just how free are we?

I do not think we are free at all, it is part of the illusion to keep us locked into Maya.

[LaEspriella]

I think that what he meant by saying that we are not in the now is because light has to travel from the object to our eyes and then throught our nerve system to reach out brain like o.oooooooooooooooooooooo1 seconds after it was reflected by the object. That is why we see the past and not the now

[whitenightf3]

What about light travelling from the Sun that takes 8 minutes before it even hits our eyes. What about distant quasars whose light has taken billions of light years to reach us. What you are looking at is something in the past. I call that a mirage others call it a illusion. What would you like to call it?

[LaEspriella]

@whitenightf3

I am not sure if I get your point, but I think you have answered yourself. If light takes 8 minutes to reach our eyes, then that means that what ever event happens on the Sun will be seen exactly 8 minutes after it happened.

[whitenightf3]

No you have it backwards if an event happened on the Sun you would only be aware of it 8 minutes after it happened. If you were on the Sun you would be aware the minute it happened. The point is that Time and Space are illusions and that has been verified by modern physics which corroborates the teachings of the Mystic.

[LaEspriella]

@whitenightf3

that is what I meant. however, even if you are in the sun the moment an event happen you will not see it in real time as the light from that event has to travel an x amount of space to reach your eye and the brain. Of course this all happens so fast we think it is instantaneous, but it is not.

[whitenightf3]

You never explained yourself properly. The whole point being we are experincing reality after it happens. That can only mean one thing, that it is a clever illusion.

[The2012phenomneon]

@whitenightf3 yeah i am fascinated by that view of light travel also if the light particles from the sun at speed of light looked back at the sun, wouldn't they see themselves as they leave the sun, thus we could see ourself leaving planet earth if we travelled at light speed to mars, so what would happen if we went towards that earlier self???????????????

[bohemiandeborah]

go meditate, kid. you sound pretty silly dissing something you evidently are not ready yet to understand.

[BadAsteroid]

Do the audience realise they're not watching stand-up?

[kromus77]

what does he mean by "hagan values in a wave ecuation" ?(minute 7:24) cheers

[metedude2]

i think he says "they're Eigenvalues in a wave equation"... i'm not sure if he's being sarcastic or not, but it's a mathematical reference to how people in the past have described the properties of electrons :)

[bangthatdrumb]

these people are fucking zombies, laughing all over the place even when its not funny.

[kromus77]

Thanks metedude2! i wouldn't have known that

[musicCway]

@bangthatdrumb

ya your right.. they sound so smug!

very interesting lecture though, brillant post.

[FLABERGAG]

"knowledge is structured in conciousness."  Malhesh "All knowledge comes from perception." Da vinci Tomato tomoto brother.

[NudePanorama]

Consciousness lives in eternity, it is eternity and infinity observing time and space, time and space are the movement of cosmic creation. Outside of that there is no time or space.

[armanproductions]

Well put.

[LaEspriella]

@NudePanorama I like this thought

[hellavadeal]

Blue is such a pleasant color . funny it really doesn't exsist except in the mind.

[bweazel]

Blue doesn't exist? What proof do we have of this? We know that light can be broken out into a spectrum. Blue exists within that spectrum. When you see blue it is only the reflection of the blue part of the spectrum your eye picks up. How exactly then, does blue exist only in your mind?

[hellavadeal]

Our eyes have no blue receptors, Red green and yellow. Blue is an illusion that the mind  creates to fill in the blanks.

[bweazel]

Are you sure about that? Link your source please. Strange that you say we have a green receptor when green is a mix of blue and yellow. Pretty much, I was under the impression our eye could see any wave in the light spectrum that was between the length of 380 to 750 nm.

[hellavadeal]

Blue only exists in the mind.

[GordonMorrice]

What was the true colour of Krishna then? ;)

[hellavadeal]

I had made a mistake , it is yellow that is illussion. check farther in the comments. Besides krishna was not a god but the product of ancestor worship . has were most ancient gods.

[kakudmi]

Dark blue.

[kakudmi]

But how do you prove that it exists?

You can only describe what you perceive.

That is the only thing anyone can do.

[The2012phenomneon]

@kakudmi what well percpetion does exist as you know it, expierence is undeniable, but what is amazing is, how do you know anyone else is real, they can say it, but not trying to pessimistic but how do i know you exist, how do you know i exist, that to me is a worrying barrier between humans today.

[kakudmi]

@The2012phenomneon

If you deny yourself the reality of your own experience, then everything else you say is pointless, because you don't even know if you exist, what to speak about other things.

[cronicjointpain]

@The2012phenomneon do you mean like another person could simply exist in your mind and you just perceive they exist? interesting, maybe we are god's mind, and were all just thoughts in his head LOL i don't know maybe thats wrong but shit, theres so many possibility's

[fantasticpanties]

Time is an illusion. Everything is happening all at once. Our minds cannot comprehend it.

[jimmycrackcorn1983]

thatmakes no scence because as a concious being i know for a fact time at this moment exists. everything ISN't happenin at once. another thing to ponder how do you know anythingr eally exists?? all you know for sure is that you are concious if you even are. how do you know your not the only conciousness in existance and you create the experiance around you to to make you not feel so alone??

[GordonMorrice]

Outside of myself, my consciousness, the universe has already ended (and possible began again). "Time is the moving image of eternity," Plato proclaimed. Embodied consciousness, ie. a human being, slows eternity down. Heidegger felt that we humans are "embodied time" and there's something uncanny about that idea - it seems to open up the mind is a peculiar way...

[Carolsw1]

@fantasticpanties I agree with Eckhart Tolle that there is only now. I think you are right that our minds have trouble with the concept of time.

[mikeyo1234]

@Carolsw1 Even that's not true... "now" is really just our perception of a particular set of experiences, i.e. very short term memories and emotions of what happened in the last tenth of a second etc. Also note that our perception is not reality... it's just a perception OF reality.

So in short: Our "now" is just our model of reality of the past tenth of a second or so. There is past and present it's just that we can't know them as reality either (past = memories, future = guesses).

[deanmullen10]

@fantasticpanties I can understand that in many ways, but you mean that all of time happens now, but we somehow feel now (well I know what you mean but its just one of those things that you can't explain with the English language).

[mikeyo1234]

@fantasticpanties Our minds can comprehend it... yours just did!

[daleshankins]

Interesting point at 1:51, "we are a tenth of a second behind". Some of the more recent research in neuroscience indicates that just before we "consciously" decide to take an action, say move an arm, a synapse fires in our brain in the area required to the arm. Thus, even the idea that we are conscious may in fact be an illusion. Again, what new is being proposed, posited here?

[bweazel]

I completely agree with that. It gives rise to fate. Scientifically speaking, we know that matter reacts with each other by a set of laws. So if these chemicals and matter are all guided by a set of laws that we do not control, where does our choice come in? I think we should all at least entertain the notion that we may not have choice at all, but simply are experiencing what these chemicals and matter already do by themselves. So there is no consciousness. Just experiences. What do you think?

[daleshankins]

I think we have a lot more to learn. I think the jury is out as to the reality of "free" will. I think each time we answer a question in this area we generate ten more questions. I think it is wonderful to be alive...particularly at this point in history.

[bweazel]

Well said. I couldn't agree with you more.

[jamesriedy]

bweazel, yes, there is just experience, and you are conscious of it (to some degree I am assuming, if your experience is similar to mine). The choices you make affect the quality of your experience. If you accept this you can take responsibility for your choices, and consciously improve the quality of your experience. The choice is yours. All there is is: how you experience your experience - this is consciousness.

[bweazel]

I don't think we know enough about the brain yet to say for sure. Choice very well may not exist. But I like your view of it and like to believe it as well.

[dinkolino2]

you are looking at it the wrong way around, assuming that time is linear. If time is only our perception of reality, than you could also assume that there is such a thing as destiny and assume that there is no free will. I say destiny and free will do not excudeeach oher, what we are determines destiny. And each of us has free will within the limits of our perception of reality

[bweazel]

This "reality" we experience is obviously linear. We all seemingly exist in this together so we can safely say time is linear in this diminsion at least. You cannot have destiny and free will. The two cannot coexist. That is wishful thinking for people who don't want to admit they really have zero control over their life. Just the illusion of control. You make bold statements. I like them, but don't agree.

[dinkolino2]

did my reply go through? I never know with youtube

[dinkolino2]

2nd try. I have given free will a lot of thought already some time ago. So, one could say, that if free will is real to us, it is as real as time and space are, and good enough for all practical purposes we could have for it. Ofcourse, our "free will" is limited by the scope of our mind, which is our reality. In those terms our free will is not absolute, but operates within certain boundaries. But than again, what is free will, and what is reality? :)

[bweazel]

Very well said : )

[INConcentration]

Obviously Linear?

Time is linear in this dimension?

You cannot have destiny and free will?

The two cannot coexist?

You make very bold statements, and I don't agree with any of them!

[bweazel]

Yes I do. That's cool if you don't agree. I wasn't trying to be an asshole to the guy but I feel you are to me, since all you did was just repeat what I said and gave no opinions of your own. Do you not have anything intelligent to add to the conversation?

[INConcentration]

Aeiou, the global mother, a graceful daughter, a prayer, a bridge, a magic spell, a word, a philosophy of mind and the architect of intelligence.

Reality is not 'linear' but time is 'spherical'.

Free will is light and destiny is probability.

[INConcentration]

Maybe the japanese call her "あいうえお or Aiueo.

Switch your browser to UTF-8

[bweazel]

Spherical? Expand on that if you don't mind. How, in this reality, could time be anything else than linear?

[INConcentration]

You can represent the flow of time as linear, like a river.

But would you say that the water in the river is linear?

[INConcentration]

what about when it reaches the ocean? Would you say it linear then?

[bweazel]

Analogies aside, what is your view of time? I can't remember which video I watched it on, maybe it was this one, but someone made a great point about space/time. In this real we interact with space and experience time. In another realm we interact with time and experience space. So in the realm we live in, time is the constant and in the other space is the constant. We may precieve time differently in this realm, but that is only how we interact with the matter, but time still remains constant.

[bweazel]

No I wouldn't. You are discussing two very different things though. One, being time, which is abstract, and another being matter, which is physical. Time in this realm cannot be physical like the matter we see and interact with. You don't interact with time. I would rather think about this as the molecules of water represent us, as animals, and the directoinal flow of that water is time.

[INConcentration]

OK. The molecules represent us, and the linear river of time is that which we flow along. We can trace ourselves all the back to the source of the river... but then where did the water come from? Using this analogy, could we then say that time is cyclical, not linear?

[INConcentration]

My hunch is that the LHC won't work and we'll have to rewrite the standard model from scratch...

[bweazel]

Crawl before you walk bro. You shouldn't start at the final question and work your way back through to answer all the rest. Don't ask "where did time come from". That shouldn't be your concern at the moment. Understanding what time and matter are and how they interact with each other must be understood before we can ask the questions about where they came from. I do agree with you though that this reality is cyclical, but not time. From the birth to death of this universe time is a single line.

[INConcentration]

OK linelander have it your way.

[4ut05et]

if you imagine the universe as a box and you are in that box, just as you can say i was there, i am here, i will be there, so can we perceive time. anything could happen with in it and at any point. time travels in all directions simultaneously. time came into being whole as in no beginning or end. time does not have the properties of past future and present, only our interactions with time do. the only constant is the speed of light, everything else is variable EX, time slows at light speeds

[Cettywise]

What about black holes? Light cannot excape them. So... time doesnt exist inside of them?

[Cettywise]

The birth and death of the universe are the same moment...

[trufkin1000]

Libet's research, which you are referring to, can be interpreted in a thousand and one different ways. Plus, Libet's research only deals with somato sensory receptors - that's it.

[metedude2]

lol i dunno, could be a sneeze or something?

i love Benjamin Fulford, he's pretty gutsy

PEACE AND LOVE

[stupidtreehugger]

Thanks for posting, thought-provoking stuff!

Physics says that all that exists is instantiated by one single unified energy which condenses or slows down in a myriad of orderly ways to form all other phenomena including degrees of freedom. Just as ancient Indian wisdom makes much of, but its also something all the major religions take into account, although some, like Bhuddism and Materialism, don't see it as having its own individual consciousness.

[2013andBeyonD]

Defenatly Advaita Vedanta.

[barneyleebass]

So. If all the universe is a stage, and we are merely actors thereon, Whom may I say is being entertained? Maybe I'm wrong. The play might have gotten bad reviews, and closed a split second ago?!

[78999]

and then reopened

[colinire15]

It's your metaphor - you decide.

[bhuridajanah]

Excellent posts. I'm hooked! Thank you so much. May I suggest you watch the talk on my channel called 'The Krishna Conception & Subjective Evolution'

[silversobe]

Truly amazing.