This was supposed to be a debate between Daniel Pipes & Wafa Sultan. It was more like a tag team of hate speech against Islam and Muslims! WHAT A JOKE! There are people who go postal everyday and shoot people in the U,S; hence, the proverb "going postal". Next, are these two propagandists going to claim that all of those the disgruntled, trigger happy postal & government employees were Muslims too! Wafa Sultun & Daniel Pipes are a couple of Islamophobes!
What Daniel Pipes is saying is the sad truth. When we look at the Mosques teaching hate and jihad to men, women and children of the Muslim faith, we have no choice but to look at Muslims with suspicion. When Muslims have blown planes out of the sky--Remember Flt 103, Scotland? And the WTC? And Maj.Hasan who killed innocent fellow soldiers at Fort Hood to give a few examples. Just yesterday we were reading about powerful bombs targeting Jewish centers in the US. Should we be looking at Jews?
We need to be vigilant and watch Islam in our communities and Muslim mosques literally need some kind of police surveillance, even if it's as simple as sending an agent, disguised as a Muslim, into the mosque, to listen to what is being preached.
Freedom of religion is fine, but there is no freedom of criminality. What Muslim mosques were doing in London was a serious crime. In most countries in Europe if you say something that encourages violence you are probably breaking the law.
Are we at war or what?! Name the enemy and destroy the enemy, both foreign and domestic. We cannot be weak. Special scrutiny of Muslims may seem harsh and is indeed harsh but are we at war or not? How many terror acts do we require before we can agree that there is a real threat to our way of life and that threat is emanating from the Muslim religion. Reality is what it is and we are best served by acting from reality not what we wish reality to be.
@pluckydad We (the West) could help by NOT propping up so many terrorists & tyrants!
In the past, WE propped up the TALIBAN to fight the Soviets. In the 80's Saddam launched POSINOUS gas attacks on his own people; while we bought Saddam’s oil & sold him weapons! Many of the "rebels" in Libya (that we’re currently propping up) are looking like terrorists. We’re currently bombing Libya for Imperialism & oil! Watch this on youtube: War for Libyan oil planned long ago, no one cares about people'
'It is Pluralism--the peaceful coexistence and legal equality between different ethnic, religious and political ideologies--that define a democracy, NOT Secularism'
this ignorant female can't speak good arabic knowing that 's her mother language, nor english, how they call her doctor, and based on what? only GOD knows.
Buddhism is not the problem, a Chinese Communist Dictatorship is the source of the strife. I did not say that all Buddhists are wise and good, I said, "Buddhism is cool." Very different. The muslims kill for islam as stated over and over again in the koran. The bible is another book that leads to a lot of misery and oppression because of the violent and hateful text contained within its pages. Judaism is less overtly violent but they are not too kind to women, or animals (kosher is slow bleed).
Spiritualism becomes religion when you politicize it,take steps to make others believe it to.
Christains are trying to replace Evolution with the bible in schools. i.e. to spread THEIR religion by indoctrinating children in it.
Islam is FAR more radical, trying to spread islam across the entire world via every means available...indoctrination, violence, deception, terrorism. And what makes it even MORE insane is in islamic countries, you MUST be muslim, killed, or live as a Dhimmi
No I would not agree. God-based religion has soaked the earth with blood for centuries. It is time for people to stop talking to their imaginary friends and start focusing on becoming more compassionate. Religion has become the ultimate WMD.
"All religions are based in kindness, open mindedness, giving, understanding, ect."
sorry, but that's the biggest load of horse shit i've heard in a while.
religions, in the beginning, were about explaining that for which we had no other explanation for. the whole touchy - feely vibe most religions offer is of the same ilk as politicians kissing babies and promising "change".
they are built on control, fear and ignorance.
though i do get your whole money motivates all theory. ;)
It's bogus to equate Marxism is Atheism. Communism is a political religion that bases its policies on immutable dogma, demands unwavering obedience form its followers, and grants absolute power to its leaders. In fact, Marxism derived much of its doctrinal content, and egalitarian program from Christianity.
I said that techniques such as profiling are forbidden by Constitutional principles. Given that, outside war, the US Constitution is inviolable, other methods must be used to combat Jihad propagandists and potential Muslim terrorists. Authorities can compile watch-lists, which would remain classified until reasonable suspicion necessitated apprehension. Extreme extra-judicial or quasi-ethical means (ex: fabricated evidence) would only be used in actual war or dire "smoking gun" situations.
hottides, nonetheless, communism cannot flourish with religious principles, agreed? It needs to be based on athiesm. It needs to discred relig and propagate athiesm. Bcause that allows them to mold and control people without being morally contested. My point was that it was foolish to represent relig as being bane of mankind. Bcause our very nature is to B greedy, selfish, 2 seek power and control others. So balming relig misses the point. Athiest based idealogies are
Communism needn't be Atheistic; Christianity is based on Communist ideals such as the abolition of private property and the subordination of individuality to group identity. Latin American Catholics even combined nominally Atheistic Marxism with Christianity; i.e. Liberation Theology.
You had me all the way until advocating fabricating evidence against Islamic leaders. If the government openly fights a specific religion, it would be unconstitutional. We have to fight illegal activity, whether it is religious or secular in nature.
What I find bizarre is that when I was in middle school all I had to do was write a few morbid poems and say in complaint, "I wanna kill my parents," and I was committed to a mental institution and subjected to counseling afterward. Yet, you have children in fundamentalist Churches, and Madrasas saying far more insane things, and nothing happens. It is unfair to turn a blind eye to dangerous behavior only because it is dangerous RELIGIOUS behavior.
@jbourget32 , what do you advocate to try to eliminate mofre risks? When we take a major terrorism hit, look for us to really slip down the path to empire from republic.
Instead of stupidly questioning every single Muslim we find, we should employ smarter intelligence tactics, like actually following up on valid terror threats like the "underpants bomber." His father actually told us he was concerned.
Questioning all Muslims is impractical, and a blatant affront to civil liberties that would be challenged vociferously by Constitutional jurists. Instead, intelligence must be gathered covertly. Muslim communities should be infiltrated with agents and informants. Lists of known and suspected Jihadists should be compiled, with recommendations for monitoring and detaining the most dangerous. Radical Muslim leaders should be imprisoned on real or, in cases of immanent danger, fabricated evidence.
Well, considering there are 1.5 billion muslims world wide, I think infiltrating muslims goes out the window. Besides, good luck finding anyone stupid enough to try this.
The problem is Islam teaches hate and intolerance, and some fraction of muslims take this seriously.
You need to eliminate Islam from the world, or at least, keep it out of your country before you own citizens start buying it, like in Britain, Thailand, France, Netherlands, africa....well, EVERYWHERE muslims go!
When combating Islam abroad, the US and others are of course unrestrained by Constitutional principles. Known or highly suspect promoters of Jihad and terrorists should be seized or eliminated by any means necessary, without apology.
How many times does profiling have to be proven ineffective for intellectually lazy people to finally come to terms with that fact. Advocating for profiling is as intellectually lazy as being religious in the first place.
Call it profiling, call it risk assessment/triage, call it whatever you want... it is a natural human response to threats or potential threats. "Don't eat that mushroom, but eat these." "Don't go near that lion, but kill that deer." "Don't mess with that tribe, but the other tribe..." To stifle this natural human response, a tool if you will, is like blinding yourself in one eye before going out to hunt. Liberals, wake up.
So, okay let me get this correctly. The US support Israel when they kill ppl in Palestinian, and u dont call that terrorism. But call ppl who try to defend their lives terrorism. Lol those ppl are ignorant seriously. See now american trying to defend their selfs from terrorism. How they do it? they take peoples freedom away...
but when Muslims try to defend their lives. its called terrorism. "Terrorism" is not found in Islam. How Wafa Sultan say so and she dont have any documents or any prove?
Its not terrorism because the muslim FORCE Israel to defend itself. As soon as the 2009 cease fire ended, muslims shot over 8000 rockets into Israel BEFORE Israel defended itself by trying to take out the people shooting the rockets.
Islam ONLY signs treaties when it allows them to regroup so they can recover and attack again. Thats exactly what happened here. As soon as the truce was over, BAM...thousands of rockets flew into Israel.
First u cant compare the military force of one country and another one being supported by 5 or more military countries. second of all Muslims dont have no military force cause the west have striped them from it. and the weapons the Muslims get is way way less than 8000 lol. If you watch news its always Israel who atks 1st. Lets say Muslims atkes 1st. Its their country. what do u expect from ppl who got invaded by ppl who got support from the UN and other countries to kill this country.
UK brought Jews to Palestinian 60 years ago . I am not sure what u mean by "Israel to defend itself. " Arent they the ones who are attacking in teh first place? u want to attack ppl and expect they will do nothing? or when they defend you call them terrorist? Is defending your country is terrorism? If you really can answer those questions you will under stand everything.
And how can you say muslims are only defending their lives here? The muslims have been attacking Israel NON STOP for years. Every time Israel defends iteself muslims cry and bitch to the world about Isreali aggression.
There was no 'fuking' country, ...just a British protectorate after Otoman Emp left.
Jews lived there before Islam was invented. ... Palistina was just land, and look what it became after it was pronounced a country and a state, at long last...
By the will of all nations united...
It was you, Muslims who attacked Israel FIRST... And you lost.... Give in, and the whole region will prosper. Jihamas on, and you know it leads nowhere...
THIS is what Islam preaches about Jews. Remember, this is what the prophet mohammad said 1400 years ago, and muslims are still trying to genocide the jews.
watch?v=Zm49T82PUyc
I can easily find dozens of similar clips on youtube.
I'm frankly amazed that Israel has kept this calm about it. Eventually, they ARE going to get tired of this, and get aggressive.
and here is a nice demonstration of how islam uses freedom of speech. This is actually a british citizen promoting Sharia law in Britan. And in case you dont know, Sharia law only permits non muslims to live in islamic states as Dhimmi, 2nd class citizens. Of coure, it only applies to "people of the book" (Christains and jews)...the rest are to adopt islam or be killed.
Wafa Sultan reckons that Bush had to go to Iraq schools to find WMDs...how about Bush (a born again christian) looked in his own book shelves or church? He'd definitely find it without the death of 4500 American soldiers.
Berenjervin, I don't want any one to become a victim of violence in the hands of another human being but I at the same time am aware of the death,destruction,plunder expropriation,enslavement,colonialism that Christianity visited on the masses of the lesser races. "with Christianity it's intellectual posturing" is a bit ignorant statement that an Irish man could make given the history of Christianity based violence in Ireland. Never heard of abortion clinic bombers, the KKK...etc?
I still think the biggest danger christianity poses in North America is the threat of teaching it in schools to indoctrinate children.
But you are correct, there is a violent streak that christianity still brings out in people.
It pales by a VAST margin when compared to islam however. Islam dictates warfare against non believers, christianity does not (at least under most modern mainstream interpretations)
@berenjervin , why would we want U to gut our 1st amendment?
It seems to be America and the first amendment that stands as the bulwark for freedom and human rights more than others. If you believe relig to be a mental illness , then it follows that the teaching of it should be forbidden. And then would it not follow that human rights are now gutted to follow whatthe state determines is best fot hte people?
Not a new concept. Athiest based idealogies have used this to oppress ppl.
>@berenjervin , why would we want U to gut our 1st amendment?
Why put those words in MY mouth? If you want them said, say them in your own name, not mine.
Does an ideology that teaches hate of others - which islam clearly does - and incites its followers to commit terrorism - which islam clearly does - deserve the protection of freedom of speech?
Eh! Come on Berenjervin you're an Irish and you should know better. You mean you don't remember the IRA putting bombs in and around London and other parts of Great Britain more recently? Christianity has wiped nations off the face of the earth and exproprieted lands, enslaved and so on. The KKK, the abortion clinic bombers, Timothy Mcveigh, The Duthc reformed church in South Africa, Dr Irvin Bruce, The Catholic church priest sodomisers are all a result of Christianity.
Why drag up history to justify what the islamic community is doing today?
There is a difference between people like mcveigh, who was executed, and BinLaden, who is a hero in the islamic community.
All cultures and religions can be criticized. But the islamic community commits more terrorism than any other source.
And when you combine that with the "stealth jihad" all designed to further political agendas to overthrow governments, then its clear this is a different beast completely.
It's a pity that when it comes to Christianity you display a double standard. There are black sheeps in all organised relegion and Christianity is no exception. I don't mean that all Christians supported the crimes of the catholic or protestant church upon the members of the lesser races and I would like you to blame certain elements within the Islamic commitee since Not all muslims are "Jihadists" and not all Christians or Shintos/Zen Buddhists are King Leopold the second or Emperor Hiroito.
no but all jihadists ared muslims and ya cant really bring up da crusades without the first 2 islamic conquests where they did what the crusaders did except on alot more land like most of africa all da middle east most of europe pieces of asia than when crusaders respond sure horribly but they responded then why do we not talk bout the fact the crusades were a response to muslim brutallity muslims have largest history of invasion and intolerance look at afghanistan it was buddhist not muslim
thank ya dude I dont believe theres any excuse for killing innocents like when people use occupation of palestine as excuse for lebanese to cross border and crush babies skull they spent millions on parade and gate with his picture entering beirut they all think hes hero for killing baby this is not Israell drops bomb on terrorist who carrying his kid this is takin child and steppin on head people have found excuses for satanic acts that is the scariest to me
There are good and bad elements in every organised instittution. Be it religious, tribal or political...etc Just like among Jewish people today there are those who strongly and explicitly condemn the stealing of lands in the name of judaism, so there are among Muslims, those who condemn violent attacks on any innocent people in the name of Islam. Grabbing lands through violent means because "God has given it to us!" is just as satanic as suicide bombing of innocents as a passport to heaven.
See the quandary/double standard? You first claim :"...Not every musllim is a Jihadist..." and then you go on to say:"there IS a jihadist element within islam...aggressive, and quite large"
I claim that there are quite large aggressive elements within Christianity, you accuse me of dragging history to justify muslim terrorists. What's wrong with you?George Bush has killed over a million in Iraq.He is a born again Christian.Don't forget that.
There is only a double standard when you try to deny truth
Not every muslim IS a jihadist.
There have been ~15000 terrorist attacks by muslims since 8/11, and this only includes attacks that kill people. Its doesnt include riots, rapes, muggings etc that are far above average around many muslims communities in Europe (Were police even refuse to go)
Berenjervin - I cannot agree more with your comments. Whether God(s) are real or not is not the issue. All god-based religion is poison, or as you have said, it is a prime cause of mental illness. Buddhism is cool BECAUSE they don't even bother to address the issue of god. This idea of God makes people crazy.
"Bhudhism is cool..." Lynleyinlondon haven't heard of Bhuddist Chinese aggression of Bhuddist Tibetans. He's not aware of Bhuddist's oppresion and abuses of minority Hindou Tamils in Sri Lankae...etc
Chinese officials causing terror in tibet and their own people may call themselves Buddhists but their actions say they are not. I used to teach Buddhist theory so I do know a bit on this topic. Buddhism is not a religion of conversion or cohersion (except perhaps the SGI in Japan which is more a cult than it is a religion).
''Chinese officials causing terror in tibet and their own people may call themselves Buddhists but their actions say they are not.'' Similarly protestants tend to claim that because of their actions catholics aren't christian;Sunni muslims claim that Shias aren't muslim because of their actions;Orthodox jews(Judaism by the way is not a religion of conversion or cohersion) would say that the Naturei Kartas aren't Judaists...etc. So despite its ''Godlessness'', Bhudism is not immune from insanity.
I guess Berenjervin is unemployed and therefore relies on Government hand out for a living or else he wouldn't be sitting in front of his PC whole daylong pouring his boring cliches and platitudes on each and every single youtube video. All violent crimes and terrorism through out the world since 8/11 are perpetrated by Muslims. The man who flew a plane into the IRS building a couple of days ago killing people was Muslim;Roman Polanski and the catholic priests are muslim too! No double standard.
I posted replies right here and on your wall. You didn't them. Did you? I read most of your previews posts here. I have seen nothing new in them but boring platitudes and cliches. Above all they proove what a biased paranoied fear mongering person you are. Don't you reply, please. I've had enough. Find a job.
Its been 2 days now, and you have yet to provide any evidence of "quite large aggressive elements within Christianity".
Are you still looking? Or perhaps you realize that it isnt there in any comparable size to islam? (Even though there are close to 1billion more christians than muslims)
Assuming all Muslims "Don't" think like me is a mistake. If they did, countries would be at war, not some thugs in a cave, bouncing around from country to country.
As for the Qur'an I said it's the definition of Islam meaning what to reference to.
You said "Allah Is happen when non Muslims die? from the Qur'an? First word it properly then tell me where it says it.
Religion isn't the Hadiths man. Hadiths are for educational purpose, to look into the life, not commandments/laws
Terrorism is committed out of oppression, not religion. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.
As for the wars, the video I made in my profile explains on the "reasons".
God doesn't "get happy" for killing non-believers, that verse isn't even in there. The Qur'an is the only book that clearly states "The killing of innocents is as sinful as killing all of humanity"
An innocent is an innocent, in defense is another issue.
You won't be able to find 1 verse that is against humanity
1. Mentioning Choudary ( The U.K. Retard who has masked protesters making b.s. signs about ruling England ) has no creditability and is NO point of authority on Islam.
This is the problem, people like you point to 1 guy like him, you won't point to the actual source but you'll say "Google it" for religion?
My man, quote me the exact verses "from" the Qu'ran, otherwise you have no right to speak on what you don't know.
Of course he has no credibility. The guy is nuts. But he has a following in Britain, and has a lot of credibility with them, and thats where it matters.
Khurram Murad, the ex head of the Islamic Foundation (with branches around the world)
and this statement
An Islamic movement is an organised struggle to change the existing society into an Islamic society based on the Qur'an and the Sunna, and make Islam, which is a code for en-tire life, supreme and dominant, especially in the socio-political spheres.
No, the Quran is just 1 book. Sure it may lay the foundations of islamic societies, but thats it. Sharia law for example, is not contained in the Quran.
Oh sorry, I was WAY off. The correct translation is
Allah is happy when non muslims get killed.
I musta confused it with this one
"Allah, count them and kill them to the last one, and don't leave even one"
This gem is reserved for infidels and polytheists tho.
U really want people looking at the Quran? Not in your best interest.
lol I really don't think you've read any of the Hadiths. Look at the country that invokes them, Saudi Arabia. The regime which even the people oppose greatly, and guess what, the U.S. supports them, what a coincidence?
To compare Nazism to Islam is the same as comparing Jews to all being corrupt. The Ottoman Empire wasn't corrupt, nor were any of the Islamic Empires, these are historical facts.
Inciting terrorism is one thing, pinning it to religion is another. Show where it says
He is so fake, he goes in front of a mosque in NY and spouts hate speech. Gotcha. His web page talking about his conversion to islam must be fake too.
No matter, I can trot a lot more 'obvious fakes' out pretending to support islam.
In fact, some people are so bend on propagating the MYTH islam is bad they protest in the streets with signs that read "Behead those who insult islam", and some even commit terrorism just to prove that islam REALLY is bad.
You can't refute anything I said, not even the video that exposed the video you gave to me so you continue.
Look at the countries where terrorism, in the way you speak, exist.
Do you see other countries getting bombed or is it just the Middle East?
Terrorism didn't pop out of nowhere. It's been around since the oldest recording in the Bible ( 1 A.D. ) By Jewish Zealots under the Roman Empire. Yes, I said jewish, learn your shit.
I pointed you to the video in my profile explaining STRAIGHT from the C.I.A. & FBI, they aren't Muslim. Do yourself a favor and watch it for yourself.
As for quoting the Qur'an, you don't have to speak Arabic, there are English versions of the Qur'an. You could simply give the Sura's ( Verses & Chapters ) that will point to what you are referring to, they are numbers, not hard at all. But could be, considering you have never read it in the first place.
To say Chaudry matters because he has a following in Britain is the equivalent to saying the Westboro Baptist Church has one also, but no one would say ( nor' would it be right ) to say all Christians are like that now would it?
As for Khurram Murad, I've never heard of him until now. If you want real scholars, with credibility that don't even come from Muslims, just ask. He defined a "movement" mind you, not a commandment or a "must".
Your whole goal is to drag the conversation into defending dubious accusations to cloud the issue. Taqiyya
I've heard a lot of what you are saying before. The US has NO JUSTIFICATION invading Iraq and Afg. Crusades, colonialism, the west just wants our oil. Every problem in islam is the wests fault!
And I'm saying muslims supported by islamic states gave the west plenty of reason to invade.
I didn't have a goal of any kind before until you started stating misinformation so, my goal turned into breaking that cycle of ignorance. You show it again by mentioning "taqiyya" <--- a word made up by a Shi'a scholar, not Qur'anic. The purpose the scholar mentioned this was lying for good, like to not hurt feelings, not be deceptive to gain for ones self interest.
"Muslims supported by Islamic States gave the west plenty of reason to invade" <--- I don't get what you mean?
Bin Ladin was being "protected" by the Taliban, the reason for the invasion was the U.S. told them to turn over Bin Ladin, when they asked for evidence to turn him over, to this day, no evidence was given, that is why the U.S. bombed them.
You're saying if some crew from the U.S. goes and bombs France, France can attack the U.S.? Doesn't really make sense now does it?
Iraq is nowhere near as similar, they never threatened anyone. Only Israel feared Saddam.
Then if they don't interpret the "right" way, it's the job of the person who knows it in the "right way" to explain it and refute the "wrong way". That is what I am doing.
it clearly is the religion cause noone else in d middle east does these things christians bahai's buddhists , jews cause if they did it would be just like muslims how can ya blame terrorism on afghanistan when americas in afghanistan cause they were attacked form there not to mention it was buddhist and muslims invaded so why arentbuddhists blowing muslims or muslim regime Iran is hanging bahais cause theyre bahais why arent they blowin up iranians witout Islam the world 's never been sopeaceful
Your Judaism is a filthy religion that commits too much terrorism and killing. Christians, Hindis, etc, in fact pretty much all religions commit terrorism.
Muslim "terrorism" was a reaction to the Jewish radicals using their fake God to wipe out a whole nation and commit ethnic cleansing.
While I think the speaker is right that Islamic idealolgy presents a major problem to western civilization, I think that the real problem comes from Islamic extremists using western freedoms, combined with violence or a threat of violence, to shape western society into a mirror of their own. Just look at the anti-blasphamy laws they want to pass or the violent protests triggered by images of Muhammad.
Because of this, it seems that best option for the west is to wage impetuous ideological war on radical Islam. We must win over the hearts and minds of our enemies. That is the only solution. Using force to stop terrorism, while necessary, is only, at best, a temporary measure, and does nothing to stop the real problem.
This is EXACTLY what they are doing in Thailand, Britain, France, and EVEN THE US. The pattern is always the same...they chip away 1 small step at a time. Over time, they gain huge strides.
In Thailand, they kept at it until they got Sharia law. As soon as they got that, terrorism rose dramatically.
Anyone who studies islamic expansion realizes that this only stops when the ENTIRE region is 100% muslim or dhimmi. Everyone else is killed or pushed out.
Not all muslims will become radical. But some always do. The Islam ideolgy teaches intolerance and hate ot anyone non muslim. As soon as a local population starts to be converted to Islam (its always presented as the religion of peace), you lose the ability to remove it from your country. In short, you have a HUGE problem. The US is getting close to seeing that first hand.
men like Daniel pipes and those radical religious leaders that he speaks against, share the same traits. He is just as dangerous as any religious radical. Given the right mix of fear and timing he, and other like him, could bring about genocide and terror. His stated motives dont match up with his actions. Profiling actual has been proven not to work because terrorist us profiling to there advantage. He is ether a xenophobic racist or a moron, but nothing else. and he is not a moron
Sorry, can't agree with this fellow, freedom is too important. Valid ideas will conquer invalid ones, religion will die in time, what we must ensure is that it goes because the human worldview has been raised beyond it. If instead we play thought police, we are succumbing to dangerous tactics that always tend towards violation of rights and freedoms, and always exacerbate conflict. These changes must happen naturally, any government interference is totalitarian.
These changes you think will happen eventually haven't happened for the last 2000 years since the inception of Islam. Perhaps you're right and they will happen eventually. Perhaps these Islamic nuts will acquire a nuke and send us into oblivion before they had enough time to see reason. Who knows....
These changes will only happen if outside influences are allowed. Islam allows no such thing. Once Islam is able to impose Sharia law on the whole population, the country is locked down and no outside influences are allowed.
This is most of the middle east today. Kids are indoctrinated in Islam. It domeinates them completely to the point they actually believe killing innocent people is just. Hamas has shown that if they cant kill non muslims, they kill other muslims.
Second, if a person such the first speaker has a bad memory with one or two persons have to be muslim does NOT mean that Islam is as such a awful lady says.
I hated x...... I wanted studyed what its philosophy then I found the I was misinformed and found many good things in it, and found that Isalm has it as well.
Hate is easy, love is hard. so I am talking the highway , and will love every human being, & prode that I am beloing to Islam and follow Sunnah.
After all the money spent funding madrassas some of that investment should come back and with the arming of ben laden why should Islam no longer be used as an excuse to invade oil and gas regions on the other side of the planet anymore? the communist-scare horse has been litteraly beaten to death. Now we just make a video in a cave in Montana and claim it came from whichever target is up next for getting rid of surplus ordinance and uranium leftovers
If I created a religion that taught that the constitution should be discarded and everyone in america should join the religion or be killed, and started engaging in terrorism against the rest of america, would americans be ok with that?
That religion already exists. It is called Islam.
I thought they called that Christianity. If a Christian had to choose between the words in the Bible or the words in the constitution what would they choose?
As much as I see the horrible teaching in Islam as something that should be confronted (just like the inherently diabolical evil notion of Christianity), one should be very careful with rhetoric. In fear of invoking Godwin's Law, there's not that far a step from this suspicion of all Muslims to the rhetoric and actions of 1930's Germany.
I agree. There are dangerous elements in Islam to be sure, but I think the socioeconomics of the Middle East play a huge part in fostering militant extremism. To ignore the bloody history of Christianity and pretend that Islam is uniquely violent is basically bigotry on the part of some folks in the west.
um, 1. how is the bloody hist of christianity relevant to islam today? Does the foundation of christianity teach violence as does the quran?
2, how do u handle, for ex, those muslims who live in West and are not economically challenged as their me counterparts participating in acts of terrorism?
This was supposed to be a debate between Daniel Pipes & Wafa Sultan. It was more like a tag team of hate speech against Islam and Muslims! WHAT A JOKE! There are people who go postal everyday and shoot people in the U,S; hence, the proverb "going postal". Next, are these two propagandists going to claim that all of those the disgruntled, trigger happy postal & government employees were Muslims too! Wafa Sultun & Daniel Pipes are a couple of Islamophobes!
Rick98RJ 9 months ago 2
What Daniel Pipes is saying is the sad truth. When we look at the Mosques teaching hate and jihad to men, women and children of the Muslim faith, we have no choice but to look at Muslims with suspicion. When Muslims have blown planes out of the sky--Remember Flt 103, Scotland? And the WTC? And Maj.Hasan who killed innocent fellow soldiers at Fort Hood to give a few examples. Just yesterday we were reading about powerful bombs targeting Jewish centers in the US. Should we be looking at Jews?
eyedrive3 1 year ago
@eyedrive3 dude you can back up your stupid claim they teach hate, no tape at all
VideoOpEd 10 months ago
more like a brainwshing. lol at anyone who buys their crap
reaperq88 1 year ago
We need to be vigilant and watch Islam in our communities and Muslim mosques literally need some kind of police surveillance, even if it's as simple as sending an agent, disguised as a Muslim, into the mosque, to listen to what is being preached.
Freedom of religion is fine, but there is no freedom of criminality. What Muslim mosques were doing in London was a serious crime. In most countries in Europe if you say something that encourages violence you are probably breaking the law.
monsterzeroJr 1 year ago 2
Word
tobleronasahliv 1 year ago
Are we at war or what?! Name the enemy and destroy the enemy, both foreign and domestic. We cannot be weak. Special scrutiny of Muslims may seem harsh and is indeed harsh but are we at war or not? How many terror acts do we require before we can agree that there is a real threat to our way of life and that threat is emanating from the Muslim religion. Reality is what it is and we are best served by acting from reality not what we wish reality to be.
pluckydad 1 year ago
@pluckydad We (the West) could help by NOT propping up so many terrorists & tyrants!
In the past, WE propped up the TALIBAN to fight the Soviets. In the 80's Saddam launched POSINOUS gas attacks on his own people; while we bought Saddam’s oil & sold him weapons! Many of the "rebels" in Libya (that we’re currently propping up) are looking like terrorists. We’re currently bombing Libya for Imperialism & oil! Watch this on youtube: War for Libyan oil planned long ago, no one cares about people'
Rick98RJ 8 months ago
'It is Pluralism--the peaceful coexistence and legal equality between different ethnic, religious and political ideologies--that define a democracy, NOT Secularism'
-Reza Aslan
supaflyjc 1 year ago
@supaflyjc don't you have something else to say?
view587 1 year ago
@view587 what more is there to say? lol
supaflyjc 1 year ago
It never made sense to me either, to fight a war and then let those same idealogical f*cktards in the usa. Pack em up and ship em out. :O)
SpringChatty 1 year ago
this ignorant female can't speak good arabic knowing that 's her mother language, nor english, how they call her doctor, and based on what? only GOD knows.
OwnedByAllah 1 year ago
Buddhism is not the problem, a Chinese Communist Dictatorship is the source of the strife. I did not say that all Buddhists are wise and good, I said, "Buddhism is cool." Very different. The muslims kill for islam as stated over and over again in the koran. The bible is another book that leads to a lot of misery and oppression because of the violent and hateful text contained within its pages. Judaism is less overtly violent but they are not too kind to women, or animals (kosher is slow bleed).
lynleyinlondon 1 year ago
She can't speak English properly
Mahdavi1990 2 years ago
neither can you apparently because the grammar would be she can not properly speak english LOL
cb44ever 1 year ago
No it wouldn't. You don't know anything about English.
Mahdavi1990 1 year ago
Governments are wrong to give religion and religious groups rights and respect. Islam will take over simply because of political correctness.
Once we deny religion any respect we can ignore religious groups and protect the rational normal people from religious stupidity.
Tax all religions too.
kaduisaui 2 years ago
Two hateful rascist islamophobes.
ultratribalist 2 years ago
@ultratribalist wow but she's a muslim and she's talking from first hand experiences
dusty8512 2 years ago
How is islam related to racism?
In case you dont know, Islam is an ethnic group, not a racial group.
Race concerns properties a person is born with (e.g. skin color)
Ethnicity concerns things you believe in, such as religion.
So being anti islam is no more a racist comment than being anti christian.
But keep up the propaganda...it is now working against islam
berenjervin 2 years ago
Governments are wrong to give religion and religious groups rights and respect. Islam will take over simply because of political correctness.
Once we deny religion any respect we can ignore religious groups and protect the rational normal people from religious stupidity.
Tax all religions too.
kaduisaui 2 years ago
I agree. The problem is Islam presents itself as a religion. While thats true, it is also a political and legal system
Being free to believe something is one thing
But when you take actions to foist those beliefs on others, it becomes political
Muslims who show up in a country with the intention of replacing the government with islam (which is every pious muslim by definition) is an invasion
And being supported by islamic countries is an act of war. The sooner people realize it, the better.
berenjervin 2 years ago
religion is the scourge of humanity.
lynleyinlondon 2 years ago
lynley, of course, athiestic based idealogies have really been a scourge of mankind, would u not agree?
l8rthen 2 years ago
Spiritualism becomes religion when you politicize it,take steps to make others believe it to.
Christains are trying to replace Evolution with the bible in schools. i.e. to spread THEIR religion by indoctrinating children in it.
Islam is FAR more radical, trying to spread islam across the entire world via every means available...indoctrination, violence, deception, terrorism. And what makes it even MORE insane is in islamic countries, you MUST be muslim, killed, or live as a Dhimmi
berenjervin 2 years ago
@l8rthen]
No I would not agree. God-based religion has soaked the earth with blood for centuries. It is time for people to stop talking to their imaginary friends and start focusing on becoming more compassionate. Religion has become the ultimate WMD.
lynleyinlondon 2 years ago
>Religion has become the ultimate WMD.
I couldn't agree with this more.
I would go so far as to say that religions cause a mental illness.
berenjervin 2 years ago
How easily freedom is thrown away from minor safety.
Mastikator 2 years ago
Saddam hid the WMDs in books?
That clever bastard!
jrobl22357 2 years ago
"All religions are based in kindness, open mindedness, giving, understanding, ect."
sorry, but that's the biggest load of horse shit i've heard in a while.
religions, in the beginning, were about explaining that for which we had no other explanation for. the whole touchy - feely vibe most religions offer is of the same ilk as politicians kissing babies and promising "change".
they are built on control, fear and ignorance.
though i do get your whole money motivates all theory. ;)
;d
666norton420 2 years ago
@666, most ot the time it isbout money/power, whether relig or not.
mankind has not fared well under athiestic idealogies either.
l8rthen 2 years ago
It's bogus to equate Marxism is Atheism. Communism is a political religion that bases its policies on immutable dogma, demands unwavering obedience form its followers, and grants absolute power to its leaders. In fact, Marxism derived much of its doctrinal content, and egalitarian program from Christianity.
Hottides 2 years ago
hottides, first things first.
U did claim that profiling muslims would be affront to civil lib, but that we shoul;d fabricate evidence against them if nec, did U not?
That is messed up.
l8rthen 2 years ago
I said that techniques such as profiling are forbidden by Constitutional principles. Given that, outside war, the US Constitution is inviolable, other methods must be used to combat Jihad propagandists and potential Muslim terrorists. Authorities can compile watch-lists, which would remain classified until reasonable suspicion necessitated apprehension. Extreme extra-judicial or quasi-ethical means (ex: fabricated evidence) would only be used in actual war or dire "smoking gun" situations.
Hottides 2 years ago
hottides, nonetheless, communism cannot flourish with religious principles, agreed? It needs to be based on athiesm. It needs to discred relig and propagate athiesm. Bcause that allows them to mold and control people without being morally contested. My point was that it was foolish to represent relig as being bane of mankind. Bcause our very nature is to B greedy, selfish, 2 seek power and control others. So balming relig misses the point. Athiest based idealogies are
l8rthen 2 years ago
Communism needn't be Atheistic; Christianity is based on Communist ideals such as the abolition of private property and the subordination of individuality to group identity. Latin American Catholics even combined nominally Atheistic Marxism with Christianity; i.e. Liberation Theology.
Hottides 2 years ago
You had me all the way until advocating fabricating evidence against Islamic leaders. If the government openly fights a specific religion, it would be unconstitutional. We have to fight illegal activity, whether it is religious or secular in nature.
jbourget32 2 years ago
What I find bizarre is that when I was in middle school all I had to do was write a few morbid poems and say in complaint, "I wanna kill my parents," and I was committed to a mental institution and subjected to counseling afterward. Yet, you have children in fundamentalist Churches, and Madrasas saying far more insane things, and nothing happens. It is unfair to turn a blind eye to dangerous behavior only because it is dangerous RELIGIOUS behavior.
Valstein0 2 years ago
And how, exactly, is profiling done correctly?
jbourget32 2 years ago
@jbourget32 , what do you advocate to try to eliminate mofre risks? When we take a major terrorism hit, look for us to really slip down the path to empire from republic.
l8rthen 2 years ago
Instead of stupidly questioning every single Muslim we find, we should employ smarter intelligence tactics, like actually following up on valid terror threats like the "underpants bomber." His father actually told us he was concerned.
jbourget32 2 years ago
Questioning all Muslims is impractical, and a blatant affront to civil liberties that would be challenged vociferously by Constitutional jurists. Instead, intelligence must be gathered covertly. Muslim communities should be infiltrated with agents and informants. Lists of known and suspected Jihadists should be compiled, with recommendations for monitoring and detaining the most dangerous. Radical Muslim leaders should be imprisoned on real or, in cases of immanent danger, fabricated evidence.
Hottides 2 years ago
hottides, come on, now. U claim civil liberty affronts and say evidence should be fabricated if nec. Take the high ground.
l8rthen 2 years ago
Well, considering there are 1.5 billion muslims world wide, I think infiltrating muslims goes out the window. Besides, good luck finding anyone stupid enough to try this.
The problem is Islam teaches hate and intolerance, and some fraction of muslims take this seriously.
You need to eliminate Islam from the world, or at least, keep it out of your country before you own citizens start buying it, like in Britain, Thailand, France, Netherlands, africa....well, EVERYWHERE muslims go!
berenjervin 2 years ago
When combating Islam abroad, the US and others are of course unrestrained by Constitutional principles. Known or highly suspect promoters of Jihad and terrorists should be seized or eliminated by any means necessary, without apology.
Hottides 2 years ago
How many times does profiling have to be proven ineffective for intellectually lazy people to finally come to terms with that fact. Advocating for profiling is as intellectually lazy as being religious in the first place.
jbourget32 2 years ago 2
What is the unifying factor of all most all the terrorists in the western world?
That they are all Islamic. Profiling works when used correctly.
Inupiatun 2 years ago
@Inu,
watch?v=Rd8cRvZZv44
l8rthen 2 years ago
Profiling is unconstitutional.
jbourget32 2 years ago
Who published the Books? Random House? Hmm, very interesting.
MrBankRuns 2 years ago
We like our liberties. We just hate others.
The world is thinking.
guruyaya 2 years ago
Oh Daniel Pipes,
Don't you know that our principles are not truly principles if we suspend them whenever we feel it is more convenient for us to do so.
QuixoticM 2 years ago
Call it profiling, call it risk assessment/triage, call it whatever you want... it is a natural human response to threats or potential threats. "Don't eat that mushroom, but eat these." "Don't go near that lion, but kill that deer." "Don't mess with that tribe, but the other tribe..." To stifle this natural human response, a tool if you will, is like blinding yourself in one eye before going out to hunt. Liberals, wake up.
petekang1975 2 years ago
@petekang1975 , aptly said!
l8rthen 2 years ago
If you don't support freedom for everybody. Then you don't support freedom for anybody. It's easy to agree to exclude those you don't like.
KHAT0VAR 2 years ago
So, okay let me get this correctly. The US support Israel when they kill ppl in Palestinian, and u dont call that terrorism. But call ppl who try to defend their lives terrorism. Lol those ppl are ignorant seriously. See now american trying to defend their selfs from terrorism. How they do it? they take peoples freedom away...
but when Muslims try to defend their lives. its called terrorism. "Terrorism" is not found in Islam. How Wafa Sultan say so and she dont have any documents or any prove?
3thbQtr 2 years ago
Its not terrorism because the muslim FORCE Israel to defend itself. As soon as the 2009 cease fire ended, muslims shot over 8000 rockets into Israel BEFORE Israel defended itself by trying to take out the people shooting the rockets.
Islam ONLY signs treaties when it allows them to regroup so they can recover and attack again. Thats exactly what happened here. As soon as the truce was over, BAM...thousands of rockets flew into Israel.
berenjervin 2 years ago
First u cant compare the military force of one country and another one being supported by 5 or more military countries. second of all Muslims dont have no military force cause the west have striped them from it. and the weapons the Muslims get is way way less than 8000 lol. If you watch news its always Israel who atks 1st. Lets say Muslims atkes 1st. Its their country. what do u expect from ppl who got invaded by ppl who got support from the UN and other countries to kill this country.
3thbQtr 2 years ago
UK brought Jews to Palestinian 60 years ago . I am not sure what u mean by "Israel to defend itself. " Arent they the ones who are attacking in teh first place? u want to attack ppl and expect they will do nothing? or when they defend you call them terrorist? Is defending your country is terrorism? If you really can answer those questions you will under stand everything.
3thbQtr 2 years ago
Yes, both countries are being supported.
Iran and saudi still have significant militarys. But this isnt about war against nations.
Shooting 1 rocket is enough., no? Its understood that islam ONLY signs peace treaties to buy time. They do it over and over.
Israel has only left its borders to chase people shooting rockets into Israel.
Since you insist of dragging up history to justify aggression, the Jews were there before Islam was even created. They got driven out by muslims.
berenjervin 2 years ago
And how can you say muslims are only defending their lives here? The muslims have been attacking Israel NON STOP for years. Every time Israel defends iteself muslims cry and bitch to the world about Isreali aggression.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Israel invaded their fuking country. what do you want them to do? stay still and say here you go. take it.
3thbQtr 2 years ago
The further back in history you go, the muddier it becomes. But some things are clear. The jews were there before the muslims showed up (7th century).
Any references to palistine (Palistina) include parts of Syria and Jordan. Why are muslims in the area not fighting against Syria and Jordan?
Could it be because they are muslim? Muslims have demonstrated over and over the Islam comes before even family (c.f. honor killings)
berenjervin 2 years ago
There was no 'fuking' country, ...just a British protectorate after Otoman Emp left.
Jews lived there before Islam was invented. ... Palistina was just land, and look what it became after it was pronounced a country and a state, at long last...
By the will of all nations united...
It was you, Muslims who attacked Israel FIRST... And you lost.... Give in, and the whole region will prosper. Jihamas on, and you know it leads nowhere...
amadrys77 2 years ago
THIS is what Islam preaches about Jews. Remember, this is what the prophet mohammad said 1400 years ago, and muslims are still trying to genocide the jews.
watch?v=Zm49T82PUyc
I can easily find dozens of similar clips on youtube.
I'm frankly amazed that Israel has kept this calm about it. Eventually, they ARE going to get tired of this, and get aggressive.
berenjervin 2 years ago
And here is one showing how islamic hate groups can incide violence, and even tempt politicians to court their vote.
watch?v=-SyKGqGv8C8&NR=1
Right now, today, there are islamic schools in the US funded by Islamic states. The goal is to convert local populations into Islam.
watch?v=bf7IEUygQYw&NR=1
watch?v=1zwFbraJBQg&NR=1
watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk
berenjervin 2 years ago
and here is a nice demonstration of how islam uses freedom of speech. This is actually a british citizen promoting Sharia law in Britan. And in case you dont know, Sharia law only permits non muslims to live in islamic states as Dhimmi, 2nd class citizens. Of coure, it only applies to "people of the book" (Christains and jews)...the rest are to adopt islam or be killed.
watch?v=9XtUsRyWAcg
berenjervin 2 years ago
Wafa Sultan reckons that Bush had to go to Iraq schools to find WMDs...how about Bush (a born again christian) looked in his own book shelves or church? He'd definitely find it without the death of 4500 American soldiers.
malairlostandfound 2 years ago
Christians ARE a problem. They are constantly trying to get evolution booted out of schools, to replace it with biblical creation.
Sorry, I would MUCH rather have that problem, than the wave of islamic violence sweeping the world today.
With Islam, people are dying. With Christains, its intellectual posturing.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Berenjervin, I don't want any one to become a victim of violence in the hands of another human being but I at the same time am aware of the death,destruction,plunder expropriation,enslavement,colonialism that Christianity visited on the masses of the lesser races. "with Christianity it's intellectual posturing" is a bit ignorant statement that an Irish man could make given the history of Christianity based violence in Ireland. Never heard of abortion clinic bombers, the KKK...etc?
malairlostandfound 2 years ago
I still think the biggest danger christianity poses in North America is the threat of teaching it in schools to indoctrinate children.
But you are correct, there is a violent streak that christianity still brings out in people.
It pales by a VAST margin when compared to islam however. Islam dictates warfare against non believers, christianity does not (at least under most modern mainstream interpretations)
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin , why would we want U to gut our 1st amendment?
It seems to be America and the first amendment that stands as the bulwark for freedom and human rights more than others. If you believe relig to be a mental illness , then it follows that the teaching of it should be forbidden. And then would it not follow that human rights are now gutted to follow whatthe state determines is best fot hte people?
Not a new concept. Athiest based idealogies have used this to oppress ppl.
l8rthen 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
>@berenjervin , why would we want U to gut our 1st amendment?
Why put those words in MY mouth? If you want them said, say them in your own name, not mine.
Does an ideology that teaches hate of others - which islam clearly does - and incites its followers to commit terrorism - which islam clearly does - deserve the protection of freedom of speech?
berenjervin 2 years ago
Where would YOU draw that line?
How about I open a children's school and teach them to hate people from your town, that they must be killed to the last one.
Should freedom of speech protect that?
Its clear a line must be drawn, but where.
I've said nothing about where, but I have said fantasy based beliefs like religion are basically a mental health issue.
When they start inciting people to blow others up, maybe that should not be protected?
You tell me.
berenjervin 2 years ago
And thats not oppression, I'd call that "fending off the bombs".
berenjervin 2 years ago
Eh! Come on Berenjervin you're an Irish and you should know better. You mean you don't remember the IRA putting bombs in and around London and other parts of Great Britain more recently? Christianity has wiped nations off the face of the earth and exproprieted lands, enslaved and so on. The KKK, the abortion clinic bombers, Timothy Mcveigh, The Duthc reformed church in South Africa, Dr Irvin Bruce, The Catholic church priest sodomisers are all a result of Christianity.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
Why drag up history to justify what the islamic community is doing today?
There is a difference between people like mcveigh, who was executed, and BinLaden, who is a hero in the islamic community.
All cultures and religions can be criticized. But the islamic community commits more terrorism than any other source.
And when you combine that with the "stealth jihad" all designed to further political agendas to overthrow governments, then its clear this is a different beast completely.
berenjervin 1 year ago
It's a pity that when it comes to Christianity you display a double standard. There are black sheeps in all organised relegion and Christianity is no exception. I don't mean that all Christians supported the crimes of the catholic or protestant church upon the members of the lesser races and I would like you to blame certain elements within the Islamic commitee since Not all muslims are "Jihadists" and not all Christians or Shintos/Zen Buddhists are King Leopold the second or Emperor Hiroito.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
no but all jihadists ared muslims and ya cant really bring up da crusades without the first 2 islamic conquests where they did what the crusaders did except on alot more land like most of africa all da middle east most of europe pieces of asia than when crusaders respond sure horribly but they responded then why do we not talk bout the fact the crusades were a response to muslim brutallity muslims have largest history of invasion and intolerance look at afghanistan it was buddhist not muslim
cb44ever 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
I dont think I am using a double standard.
I basically agree with everything you said. And I'll repeat your comment that not every muslim is a jihadist. imo, this is an obvious truth.
But, there IS a jihadist element within islam, and that jihadist element is aggressive, and quite large. The terrorism is just one aspect of jihad.
You can find jihad teachings in western mosques.
berenjervin 1 year ago
thank ya dude I dont believe theres any excuse for killing innocents like when people use occupation of palestine as excuse for lebanese to cross border and crush babies skull they spent millions on parade and gate with his picture entering beirut they all think hes hero for killing baby this is not Israell drops bomb on terrorist who carrying his kid this is takin child and steppin on head people have found excuses for satanic acts that is the scariest to me
cb44ever 1 year ago
There are good and bad elements in every organised instittution. Be it religious, tribal or political...etc Just like among Jewish people today there are those who strongly and explicitly condemn the stealing of lands in the name of judaism, so there are among Muslims, those who condemn violent attacks on any innocent people in the name of Islam. Grabbing lands through violent means because "God has given it to us!" is just as satanic as suicide bombing of innocents as a passport to heaven.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
I agree completely that Christianity has a dark past. But can you hold someone accountable for what their ancestors have done?
No. Yet this is exactly what islam attempts to do by justifying killing people today based on what happened 1000 years ago.
Muslims always steer a conversation away from jihad. They deny it, justify it, point to Hitler being worse, etc.
All they want is submission by non muslims by any means possible, and doing the above serves that goal.
berenjervin 2 years ago
See the quandary/double standard? You first claim :"...Not every musllim is a Jihadist..." and then you go on to say:"there IS a jihadist element within islam...aggressive, and quite large"
I claim that there are quite large aggressive elements within Christianity, you accuse me of dragging history to justify muslim terrorists. What's wrong with you?George Bush has killed over a million in Iraq.He is a born again Christian.Don't forget that.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
There is only a double standard when you try to deny truth
Not every muslim IS a jihadist.
There have been ~15000 terrorist attacks by muslims since 8/11, and this only includes attacks that kill people. Its doesnt include riots, rapes, muggings etc that are far above average around many muslims communities in Europe (Were police even refuse to go)
I see no double standard there.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Berenjervin - I cannot agree more with your comments. Whether God(s) are real or not is not the issue. All god-based religion is poison, or as you have said, it is a prime cause of mental illness. Buddhism is cool BECAUSE they don't even bother to address the issue of god. This idea of God makes people crazy.
lynleyinlondon 1 year ago
"Bhudhism is cool..." Lynleyinlondon haven't heard of Bhuddist Chinese aggression of Bhuddist Tibetans. He's not aware of Bhuddist's oppresion and abuses of minority Hindou Tamils in Sri Lankae...etc
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
Chinese officials causing terror in tibet and their own people may call themselves Buddhists but their actions say they are not. I used to teach Buddhist theory so I do know a bit on this topic. Buddhism is not a religion of conversion or cohersion (except perhaps the SGI in Japan which is more a cult than it is a religion).
lynleyinlondon 1 year ago
''Chinese officials causing terror in tibet and their own people may call themselves Buddhists but their actions say they are not.'' Similarly protestants tend to claim that because of their actions catholics aren't christian;Sunni muslims claim that Shias aren't muslim because of their actions;Orthodox jews(Judaism by the way is not a religion of conversion or cohersion) would say that the Naturei Kartas aren't Judaists...etc. So despite its ''Godlessness'', Bhudism is not immune from insanity.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
Comment removed
lynleyinlondon 1 year ago
I guess Berenjervin is unemployed and therefore relies on Government hand out for a living or else he wouldn't be sitting in front of his PC whole daylong pouring his boring cliches and platitudes on each and every single youtube video. All violent crimes and terrorism through out the world since 8/11 are perpetrated by Muslims. The man who flew a plane into the IRS building a couple of days ago killing people was Muslim;Roman Polanski and the catholic priests are muslim too! No double standard.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
You know nothing about me. Claiming I'm unemployed yada yada just shows you hate what I'm saying, but know there is truth in it.
I notice how you even put words into my mouth.
Dont get pissed at me, I'm just pointing out unpleasant truths.
How about you say something useful instead of just resorting to instults?
berenjervin 1 year ago
I posted replies right here and on your wall. You didn't them. Did you? I read most of your previews posts here. I have seen nothing new in them but boring platitudes and cliches. Above all they proove what a biased paranoied fear mongering person you are. Don't you reply, please. I've had enough. Find a job.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
Well, maybe you will go learn something about the world you live in.
I'm sorry you find the topic boring. I dont.
Am I bias? Nope. Show me how I am.
Am I paranoid? Nope, well, no more than anyone else when getting on an airplane.
And I fear mongering? Nope. I'm pointing out something about islam most people dont know. If that makes them afraid, then yea, I guess I am.
>I've had enough
No you havent. The truth isnt going to go away.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
And lastly,
>Find a job.
The last time I was unemployed was 1985. You?
>I read most of your previews posts here
And you continue to live in a bubble of fantasy rather than accept some hard cold truths about the 'religion' you believe in?
You started by saying (paraphrase) islam is ok, because Christianity is as bad or worse.
I say "No it isnt".
berenjervin 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
Prove your claim. Lets see how large it is.
Bush is acting as a head of state that suffered a massive terrorist attack (by muslims).
He is not attempting to "spread christianity", whereas muslims are.
The double standard is on your door, not mine.
When Bush starts representing the vatican, and kills people, I'll start talking about him,
berenjervin 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
Bush hasnt killed a million people in Iraq. That might be true if you include muslim insurgents AND shia/sunni violence.
I'd suggest when shia muslims kill sunni muslims, thats not the US's fault.
Show me any credible source that a million people have died there.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
Its been 2 days now, and you have yet to provide any evidence of "quite large aggressive elements within Christianity".
Are you still looking? Or perhaps you realize that it isnt there in any comparable size to islam? (Even though there are close to 1billion more christians than muslims)
berenjervin 1 year ago
ForaTV, again you post this propagandist?
I want all you people who post after me to do 2 things:
1. Look at my profile for a video i just made on "terrorism"
2. Remember this quote:
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it."
- Noam Chomsky ( referring to U.S. Foreign Policy towards the Middle East )
MrMP81 2 years ago
Its all well and good to blame the US and make vague references to US foriegn policy.
But at the end of the day, it usually boils down to muslims pissed off the US is preventing the genocide of Jews.
The news flash is as soon as the Jews are gone, someone else will be next for some other reason...thats been the entire history is Islam.
berenjervin 2 years ago
berenjervin:
Really? So you don't believe the CIA & FBI for stating the reasons being our support for tyranny in the Middle East, Israel & etc?
You say "Muslims are pissed off at the U.S. for preventing the genocide of Jews"
Really, history shows this? Which history do you know of that everyone else doesn't?
I'm very interested now because even the most staunch supporters of Israel never said the Muslims want to exterminate jews.
Present to me the facts to back up your claims : )
MrMP81 2 years ago
@MrMP81
My response seems to be gone.
Look below, everything you need to know is there.
Here is just one of many
watch?v=Zm49T82PUyc
berenjervin 2 years ago
And just to drive the point home:
watch?v=bf7IEUygQYw
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
I looked over at them and they are mostly people quoting hadiths out of context or just straight not true.
People don't follow Hadiths, they look at them for interest but the Qur'an is what Muslims are to use as guidance.
Now, if you have video or verses where the "Qur'an" is stating something you question, then by all means, present them.
As for Hadiths, they are still debated to this day and like i said before, not something that you should hold the religion to.
MrMP81 2 years ago
Let me recap what you just said:
-Its not real muslims saying this
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and smells like a duck, its a duck. Assuming all 1 billion muslims think exactly like you is a mistake
-Islam is the Quran, nothing else
Islam is more than the Quran its also a politcal and legal system
but, the Quran states "Allah is happen when non muslims die". Want more?
-You cant hold a religion to hadiths
Yes you can. Because muslims do.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
Assuming all Muslims "Don't" think like me is a mistake. If they did, countries would be at war, not some thugs in a cave, bouncing around from country to country.
As for the Qur'an I said it's the definition of Islam meaning what to reference to.
You said "Allah Is happen when non Muslims die? from the Qur'an? First word it properly then tell me where it says it.
Religion isn't the Hadiths man. Hadiths are for educational purpose, to look into the life, not commandments/laws
MrMP81 2 years ago
Last I looked, muslims TODAY were commiting terrorism in 70 odd countries of the world.
Last I looked, there ARE at least 3 wars CURRENTLY going on in the middle east.
What you just said is like me saying the US didnt invade Iraq, pointing at 1 soldier and saying "See? thats not an army, 1 man cant invade a country"
Nice try tho.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
Terrorism is committed out of oppression, not religion. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.
As for the wars, the video I made in my profile explains on the "reasons".
God doesn't "get happy" for killing non-believers, that verse isn't even in there. The Qur'an is the only book that clearly states "The killing of innocents is as sinful as killing all of humanity"
An innocent is an innocent, in defense is another issue.
You won't be able to find 1 verse that is against humanity
MrMP81 2 years ago
>God doesn't "get happy" for killing non-believers, that verse isn't even in there.
I invite readers to go google it. Its there.
>"The killing of innocents is as sinful as killing all of humanity"
Yes, but islamic leaders tell us over and over that not believing in Allah is a sin against god, so non believers are guilty, not innocent.
In the words of Angem Choudary "Only muslims can be innocent"
>You won't be able to find 1 verse that is against humanity
Not 1, MANY against non muslims
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
You know you just stepped in it...
1. Mentioning Choudary ( The U.K. Retard who has masked protesters making b.s. signs about ruling England ) has no creditability and is NO point of authority on Islam.
This is the problem, people like you point to 1 guy like him, you won't point to the actual source but you'll say "Google it" for religion?
My man, quote me the exact verses "from" the Qu'ran, otherwise you have no right to speak on what you don't know.
MrMP81 2 years ago
Of course he has no credibility. The guy is nuts. But he has a following in Britain, and has a lot of credibility with them, and thats where it matters.
berenjervin 2 years ago
But if you want something 'credible' how about
Khurram Murad, the ex head of the Islamic Foundation (with branches around the world)
and this statement
An Islamic movement is an organised struggle to change the existing society into an Islamic society based on the Qur'an and the Sunna, and make Islam, which is a code for en-tire life, supreme and dominant, especially in the socio-political spheres.
Page 3 of his blueprint on islamizing the west.
berenjervin 2 years ago
This is the problem, people like you point to 1 guy thats an exception, and say "See, Islam is all warm and fuzzy"
I point at the almost 15,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11 all over the world. Then try to understand why.
Muslims like you come out of the woodwork and give every dubious answer in the book, blow smoke up peoples asses, and say "islam is peace".
If Islam IS peace, can you please tell muslims committing terrorism? I dont think they got that message.
berenjervin 2 years ago
>My man, quote me the exact verses
No. I've already quoted the verse, stop trying to push bullshit.
I do invite anyone reading this to go look. You will find a lot of interesting stuff in it.
berenjervin 2 years ago
No, the Quran is just 1 book. Sure it may lay the foundations of islamic societies, but thats it. Sharia law for example, is not contained in the Quran.
Oh sorry, I was WAY off. The correct translation is
Allah is happy when non muslims get killed.
I musta confused it with this one
"Allah, count them and kill them to the last one, and don't leave even one"
This gem is reserved for infidels and polytheists tho.
U really want people looking at the Quran? Not in your best interest.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Hadith are regarded by traditional schools of jurisprudence as important tools for understanding the Qur'an and in matters of jurisprudence. (wiki)
These works are referred to in matters of Islamic law and history to this day. (wiki)
Looks like they are a pretty big part of islam, no?
I didnt need to be an expert in politics to see that Nazism was bad. You can see from its effects on people. Islam is no different.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
lol I really don't think you've read any of the Hadiths. Look at the country that invokes them, Saudi Arabia. The regime which even the people oppose greatly, and guess what, the U.S. supports them, what a coincidence?
To compare Nazism to Islam is the same as comparing Jews to all being corrupt. The Ottoman Empire wasn't corrupt, nor were any of the Islamic Empires, these are historical facts.
Inciting terrorism is one thing, pinning it to religion is another. Show where it says
MrMP81 2 years ago
>what a coincidence
No, its based on ignorance of islam and is courting disaster.
This is what saudi funded madrass and mosques are producing in the US
watch?v=Q5sfBrhYWCw
I didnt compare nazism to islam in the above. I used it as an example.
But, I DO see Imams calling for the killing of every jew world wide. Oddly enough, Hitler thought the same thing.
So yes, they can be compared, at least in some ways.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
That guy is with the Fake Muslim Jew who is tied with the JDL. Why don't you google that?
/watch?v=GsUtvOW6SR0
Why don't you even notice the other Muslims walking away from him and looking at him like he's retarded?
Nazi's called for the killing of all that weren't of Pure Aryan, not just Jews.
Imams calling for the killing of Jews worldwide? lol Where? Like they showed Obama's guy hating U.S. Policy, they'd show Imams
You're still not quoting the Qu'ran.
Come on man
MrMP81 2 years ago
He is so fake, he goes in front of a mosque in NY and spouts hate speech. Gotcha. His web page talking about his conversion to islam must be fake too.
No matter, I can trot a lot more 'obvious fakes' out pretending to support islam.
In fact, some people are so bend on propagating the MYTH islam is bad they protest in the streets with signs that read "Behead those who insult islam", and some even commit terrorism just to prove that islam REALLY is bad.
I had no idea. Sorry.
berenjervin 2 years ago
I fully expect some muslims to walk away from him like he is crazy. He is crazy.
And MANY muslims who left the ME are probably not too keen on seeing it come to America.
Well, nazis did a good job in the jewish community, glad thats as far as they got.
>You're still not quoting the Qu'ran.
I know, I dont read arabic. I have to rely on the web sites that post "obviously fake" translations.
Tell me, what part of terrorism in ~75 countries dont you see? Why are they all muslims.
YOU explain it.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
Damn you're ignorant.
You can't refute anything I said, not even the video that exposed the video you gave to me so you continue.
Look at the countries where terrorism, in the way you speak, exist.
Do you see other countries getting bombed or is it just the Middle East?
Terrorism didn't pop out of nowhere. It's been around since the oldest recording in the Bible ( 1 A.D. ) By Jewish Zealots under the Roman Empire. Yes, I said jewish, learn your shit.
MrMP81 2 years ago
Cont 2:
I pointed you to the video in my profile explaining STRAIGHT from the C.I.A. & FBI, they aren't Muslim. Do yourself a favor and watch it for yourself.
As for quoting the Qur'an, you don't have to speak Arabic, there are English versions of the Qur'an. You could simply give the Sura's ( Verses & Chapters ) that will point to what you are referring to, they are numbers, not hard at all. But could be, considering you have never read it in the first place.
MrMP81 2 years ago
Cont 3:
To say Chaudry matters because he has a following in Britain is the equivalent to saying the Westboro Baptist Church has one also, but no one would say ( nor' would it be right ) to say all Christians are like that now would it?
As for Khurram Murad, I've never heard of him until now. If you want real scholars, with credibility that don't even come from Muslims, just ask. He defined a "movement" mind you, not a commandment or a "must".
MrMP81 2 years ago
Cont 4:
You are doing what others have done, base your assumption of religion based on
a person and not the actual source itself, this is where your arguments don't hold up.
MrMP81 2 years ago
Read [9] and yes I am going to make YOU find the 2 verses which, in 500 characters are less state allah is happy when you kill non muslims.
Quoting the Koran to a muslim. Now thats a first :-)
berenjervin 2 years ago
Ignorance indeed.
>You can't refute anything I said
Your whole goal is to drag the conversation into defending dubious accusations to cloud the issue. Taqiyya
I've heard a lot of what you are saying before. The US has NO JUSTIFICATION invading Iraq and Afg. Crusades, colonialism, the west just wants our oil. Every problem in islam is the wests fault!
And I'm saying muslims supported by islamic states gave the west plenty of reason to invade.
Learn something from it. Or not.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
I didn't have a goal of any kind before until you started stating misinformation so, my goal turned into breaking that cycle of ignorance. You show it again by mentioning "taqiyya" <--- a word made up by a Shi'a scholar, not Qur'anic. The purpose the scholar mentioned this was lying for good, like to not hurt feelings, not be deceptive to gain for ones self interest.
"Muslims supported by Islamic States gave the west plenty of reason to invade" <--- I don't get what you mean?
MrMP81 2 years ago
Cont 2:
You said "Read 9", I'm guessing you mean Sura 9?
You do realize this is a section about idoleters right?
You do know the history of the past, where people use to worship statues and images of "Gods" and not "God" right?
This is what the chapters refers to, not individuals of today who aren't muslim lol
You really need to go back and learn something and stop talking nonsense about something you obviously know nothing about.
You hurt yourself in the end, not anyone else.
MrMP81 2 years ago
>my goal turned into breaking that cycle of ignorance
Good. Not in your best interest, but I support the idea.
You mentioned invaded countries in the middle east as somehow justifying terrorism.
My point is the Taliban directly supported Bin Laden, and Bin Laden declared war on the US and blew up the WTC.
So the US justifiably invaded Afg.
Iraq is more complex, but similar.
You cant run around the world declaring war and killing people and not expect consequences.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
Bin Ladin was being "protected" by the Taliban, the reason for the invasion was the U.S. told them to turn over Bin Ladin, when they asked for evidence to turn him over, to this day, no evidence was given, that is why the U.S. bombed them.
You're saying if some crew from the U.S. goes and bombs France, France can attack the U.S.? Doesn't really make sense now does it?
Iraq is nowhere near as similar, they never threatened anyone. Only Israel feared Saddam.
MrMP81 2 years ago
>Iraq is nowhere near as similar, they never threatened anyone
um, are you delusional?
berenjervin 2 years ago
>this was lying for good
Absolutely. And most muslims treat it exactly this way.
The trouble is, not ALL muslims do. Some use it exactly as I'm saying. Islamic teachings allow it to be interpreted this way.
If 0.1% of muslims interpret it this way, thats about 1.5 million muslims.
Not every muslim interprets the Quran the way YOU do.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
Then if they don't interpret the "right" way, it's the job of the person who knows it in the "right way" to explain it and refute the "wrong way". That is what I am doing.
MrMP81 2 years ago
No, you are defending the people doing it "the wrong way" by trying to convince me its not happening, or is justified.
You havent even admitted world terrorism is a problem yet. All you've done really is blame it on the west. Fine, carry on.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
No I'm not delusional, show me how.
As for me explaining and you thinking that I am trying to "justify" anything, I don't know how you see that?
This began from you blaming the religion as the reasons, I'm showing you how it's not.
As for Terrorism being a problem, it's been around since the beginning and it will be around tomorrow. It's a tactic.
If you want to a minimal, you stop occupying their land and supporting dictatorships... Nothing hard to comprehend.
MrMP81 2 years ago
it clearly is the religion cause noone else in d middle east does these things christians bahai's buddhists , jews cause if they did it would be just like muslims how can ya blame terrorism on afghanistan when americas in afghanistan cause they were attacked form there not to mention it was buddhist and muslims invaded so why arentbuddhists blowing muslims or muslim regime Iran is hanging bahais cause theyre bahais why arent they blowin up iranians witout Islam the world 's never been sopeaceful
cb44ever 1 year ago
Your Judaism is a filthy religion that commits too much terrorism and killing. Christians, Hindis, etc, in fact pretty much all religions commit terrorism.
Muslim "terrorism" was a reaction to the Jewish radicals using their fake God to wipe out a whole nation and commit ethnic cleansing.
Mahdavi1990 1 year ago
While I think the speaker is right that Islamic idealolgy presents a major problem to western civilization, I think that the real problem comes from Islamic extremists using western freedoms, combined with violence or a threat of violence, to shape western society into a mirror of their own. Just look at the anti-blasphamy laws they want to pass or the violent protests triggered by images of Muhammad.
TempestWriter 2 years ago
Because of this, it seems that best option for the west is to wage impetuous ideological war on radical Islam. We must win over the hearts and minds of our enemies. That is the only solution. Using force to stop terrorism, while necessary, is only, at best, a temporary measure, and does nothing to stop the real problem.
TempestWriter 2 years ago
<from Islamic extremists using western freedoms
This is EXACTLY what they are doing in Thailand, Britain, France, and EVEN THE US. The pattern is always the same...they chip away 1 small step at a time. Over time, they gain huge strides.
berenjervin 2 years ago
In Thailand, they kept at it until they got Sharia law. As soon as they got that, terrorism rose dramatically.
Anyone who studies islamic expansion realizes that this only stops when the ENTIRE region is 100% muslim or dhimmi. Everyone else is killed or pushed out.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Not all muslims will become radical. But some always do. The Islam ideolgy teaches intolerance and hate ot anyone non muslim. As soon as a local population starts to be converted to Islam (its always presented as the religion of peace), you lose the ability to remove it from your country. In short, you have a HUGE problem. The US is getting close to seeing that first hand.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Actually, Fort Hood may in fact be the first step in this process for the US.
I am willing to bet everything I have there will be more, soon. (us citizens who are muslims commiting terrorism)
berenjervin 2 years ago
men like Daniel pipes and those radical religious leaders that he speaks against, share the same traits. He is just as dangerous as any religious radical. Given the right mix of fear and timing he, and other like him, could bring about genocide and terror. His stated motives dont match up with his actions. Profiling actual has been proven not to work because terrorist us profiling to there advantage. He is ether a xenophobic racist or a moron, but nothing else. and he is not a moron
thesparitan 2 years ago
Sorry, can't agree with this fellow, freedom is too important. Valid ideas will conquer invalid ones, religion will die in time, what we must ensure is that it goes because the human worldview has been raised beyond it. If instead we play thought police, we are succumbing to dangerous tactics that always tend towards violation of rights and freedoms, and always exacerbate conflict. These changes must happen naturally, any government interference is totalitarian.
angelwhite 2 years ago
well said, very well said
thesparitan 2 years ago
These changes you think will happen eventually haven't happened for the last 2000 years since the inception of Islam. Perhaps you're right and they will happen eventually. Perhaps these Islamic nuts will acquire a nuke and send us into oblivion before they had enough time to see reason. Who knows....
Mrmoc7 2 years ago
These changes will only happen if outside influences are allowed. Islam allows no such thing. Once Islam is able to impose Sharia law on the whole population, the country is locked down and no outside influences are allowed.
This is most of the middle east today. Kids are indoctrinated in Islam. It domeinates them completely to the point they actually believe killing innocent people is just. Hamas has shown that if they cant kill non muslims, they kill other muslims.
berenjervin 2 years ago
I come from the most ethnically diverse part of London.
In my lifetime I have seen it change.
There were always some tensions, however, since idiot Blair encouraged private religious schools to save pennies,
communities have become religious Mafias, segregated, new religious buildings going up.
Families move to be near the school, and kids don't know anything but religious dogma.
At least in the past kids could get away from it in secular schools.
War + religion.
Can one plan stupid any better ?
marsCubed 2 years ago 4
Madrasas =(in Arabic) Schools.
Second, if a person such the first speaker has a bad memory with one or two persons have to be muslim does NOT mean that Islam is as such a awful lady says.
I hated x...... I wanted studyed what its philosophy then I found the I was misinformed and found many good things in it, and found that Isalm has it as well.
Hate is easy, love is hard. so I am talking the highway , and will love every human being, & prode that I am beloing to Islam and follow Sunnah.
48PalestineAbd 2 years ago
Islam is in America in order to dominate it.
And nothing you can do will stop that.
Or can you ?
mosquewatcher 2 years ago
I think we should end religious freedom and demand everyone keep their faith to themselves. No room for that shit in public anymore.
spikesmth 2 years ago
Ilsamic extremists inside the US?
Why not?
After all the money spent funding madrassas some of that investment should come back and with the arming of ben laden why should Islam no longer be used as an excuse to invade oil and gas regions on the other side of the planet anymore? the communist-scare horse has been litteraly beaten to death. Now we just make a video in a cave in Montana and claim it came from whichever target is up next for getting rid of surplus ordinance and uranium leftovers
Rickdeckard2020 2 years ago
Rickdeckard2020 , u seem woefully ignorant of communism.
l8rthen 2 years ago
wilfully more like it. a willingness to be ignorant. the info is out there one needs but to see it.
thesparitan 2 years ago
If I created a religion that taught that the constitution should be discarded and everyone in america should join the religion or be killed, and started engaging in terrorism against the rest of america, would americans be ok with that?
That religion already exists. It is called Islam.
berenjervin 2 years ago
@berenjervin
I thought they called that Christianity. If a Christian had to choose between the words in the Bible or the words in the constitution what would they choose?
O Well
CosmosPrivateer 2 years ago
Christains are not engaging in global terrorism. Other than that, you ARE correct.
Any religion that preaches AND PRACTICES terrorism to spread itself has a pretty twisted view of peace.
berenjervin 2 years ago
Comment removed
kidwhocracked 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mrconradhoppe i'm sorry... are you under the impression that 9/11 was the only instance of islamic terrorism?
;d
666norton420 2 years ago 2
666, lol. u gave a valid comment and the children marked you as spam
l8rthen 2 years ago
who was marked as spam?
;d
666norton420 2 years ago
I know these two get a bad rap but they are not wrong about heavy ideological warfare in which Islamicists engage.
GOPsithlord 2 years ago
Thanks
Adipatus 2 years ago
As much as I see the horrible teaching in Islam as something that should be confronted (just like the inherently diabolical evil notion of Christianity), one should be very careful with rhetoric. In fear of invoking Godwin's Law, there's not that far a step from this suspicion of all Muslims to the rhetoric and actions of 1930's Germany.
Aaberg123 2 years ago 3
I agree. There are dangerous elements in Islam to be sure, but I think the socioeconomics of the Middle East play a huge part in fostering militant extremism. To ignore the bloody history of Christianity and pretend that Islam is uniquely violent is basically bigotry on the part of some folks in the west.
totaldreck 2 years ago
totaldreck ,
um, 1. how is the bloody hist of christianity relevant to islam today? Does the foundation of christianity teach violence as does the quran?
2, how do u handle, for ex, those muslims who live in West and are not economically challenged as their me counterparts participating in acts of terrorism?
l8rthen 2 years ago