Primitive Nutrition 1: The New Barbarians

[sevellian]

I'm glad someone is taking on paleo. A lot of the vegans that I respect the most (e.g., Dr. John McDougall) have either mostly avoided paleo or are simply not aware of how prevalent it has become. I tried it out before I started reading about veganism (The China Study, The McDougall Plan, etc.). Keep up the good work and keep people from making my mistake.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@sevellian Thank you very much! More is on the way, I promise!

[awesomelyhumble]

Vegans seem to condemn ALL meat, but base their evidence on factory farming. That's not right.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble I can't help how it seems to you. What you are saying is not true of my views or those of the vegans I know.

[awesomelyhumble]

Why don't vegans attack the agricultural industry - grains, cereals, soy? These are far more detrimental, toxic, and polluting to the earth, and people - more so than supposed meat. I agree factory farming is incredibly harmful to the animal, the land, the farmer being exploited, the citizen being taxed and misled, the economy from subsidizing, and to other food providers trying to make a living selling healthy foods. But it's not fair to condemn good, honest, organic, pastured meat as the same

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble I cover grass-fed elsewhere in the series if you watch. Most of those crops' yields go toward animal feed. Grass-fed cannot meet demand for meat. Unless you want to ruin a lot more ecosystems to be a caveman.

[awesomelyhumble]

Seems a bit unfair for you to criticize these people while at the same time hiding your identity from the same scrutiny. Paleo diet isn't about gluttonous feasting of meat, it's about eating foods our body is designed to digest. It seems vegans can be so vindictive and set on converting people to their lifestyle - like a crusader.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble Double post removed. It doesn't matter who I am. My identity will come out eventually. I am not the one making illogical claims, like saying we are designed to eat certain foods.

You are coming across as very sensitive. Paleo deserves a critical appraisal. Don't you think it can withstand that?

[awesomelyhumble]

@PrimitiveNutrition Yes, I agree, Paleo should have critical appraisal - as long as it's fair and honest. If you, in your research, found all meat products to be unhealthy (we're talking about the human body using the meat, not economical, moral, religious, or humane reasons), but found just a specific type of fish to be truly healthy, would YOU be open-minded to try?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble You haven't watched my videos. I get into this. I use other criteria, and just being "healthy" isn't good enough for me. I don't live in a vacuum and I have personal goals. I want maximum nutrient density.

Are you suggesting I've been dishonest? Where? Are you suggesting the paleo leaders have been fair and honest about veganism?

[awesomelyhumble]

I had to stop this video when you said "it doesn't matter who I am", right after commenting on Loren's Exercise Physiology background. So now formal education define someone's credibility and research? Are you suggesting that since Loren's degree's from 30+ years ago are definitive and limiting to his level of knowledge? What about someone who has no formal education? Are they not credible to you? Or someone who has a computer science degree studying programming, then took interest in health?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble As for all the other questions, those people would not be limited, but they would deserve skepticism if they made profligate claims.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@awesomelyhumble My comment didn't post. There are 70 other videos. You are the one who is "limiting" by not watching them.

Cordain is claiming to be turning nutrition science on its head. This should provoke skepticism given his background. That is not why I disagree with this. Why not watch a few more videos before getting so defensive?

[infactme]

I love when people have to talk bad about other competitors to make their product look better. I've always been able to sell my products without ever mentioning the competitors. Sell me on why vegan is so great and stop talking bad about others.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@infactme Do you watch the news and complain that they only show the "good" news? This is criticism and debate. BS must be called out. Don't watch if you can't handle it.

[kitmao]

All I know is I was vegan once and it destroyed my health. Then I started eating paleo and now I'm in the best health of my life. So, I could care less what anyone says I should eat, I'm going to eat what works. Vegans cannot stand that there's a diet out there that undoes the damage their diets do. I'm sorry you chose to embrace suffering. Also, if you want to stop factory farming, start purchasing from farmers that treat their animals well. Buying your soy burgers only furthers that industry.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@kitmao None of this makes any sense. I'm not surprised you failed as a vegan.

[Perfecting2011]

@kitmao Do you realize that a lot of vegans don't eat processed foods, or even eat any soy for that matter. I believe it's processed foods that are the #1 problem, more than your diet. A vegan that eats a lot of processed foods and isn't healthy? Should I be surprised?? Oreos are vegan! To criticize the vegan diet and using soy burgers as a reference, that is a bit ridiculous. And do you not realize that a lot vegans just don't want to eat meat, that it's not just about 'factory' farming?

[datzfast]

how can i book a low carb cruise?

[bodhinature]

You always present primitive diets with a factor of disgust, as in "Would you find (insert unfamiliar dish) appetizing?" As a person of mixed cultural parentage, I can tell you I've eaten things that my Western friends find absolutely disgusting. This includes vegetables and fruits. Not just meat or blood. Your judgement call about what is appetizing is unnecessary. Clearly the Masai find blood appetizing. And Koreans find fermented cabbage appetizing. This is an emotional play, at best.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@bodhinature Again, you are totally missing the point. You are amazingly good at this. I am not judging primitive diets. I am saying those are the real primitive diets, not the stuff in the fad diet books. I am guessing most people wont find eating soil appetizing, for example, but this is what people actually did. No judgment. Just not playing along with the paleo fantasy.

[bodhinature]

@PrimitiveNutrition But you see, you are only guessing that. But I, and many dieters in my community, do eat "paleo" things that the average Western dieter would find unappetizing. I have no problem eating offal or blood. I've been eating blood since I was a child. It's not limited to primitive agriculturalists in sub-Saharan Africa. Perhaps that is why I missed the point. But you are assuming the audience is with you and you are playing on their prejudices.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@bodhinature It seems like you have your own personal paleo diet and you think I should have made my videos just for you and your idiosyncrasies. You are assuming that you, a blood eater from childhood, speak for someone beside yourself. Which paleo diet book recommends this?

[billmandell1]

lmao, Obama received the 'Peace' prize, before being responsible for starting more conflicts than another other President. EVER

[HybridD91]

@billmandell1 Which conflicts are you talking about, wars that existed prior to his election?

[bodhinature]

@billmandell1 You mean the war in Afghanistan? Oh, that was Bush. You mean secret bombings in Pakistan? Oh, that was also Bush. You mean the war in which we left Iraq? Oh, yeah, you're right. Obama started that one.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@bodhinature I'm not letting through any further off-topic comments like this.

[1imesub]

Great video.  Great info. Great job!

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@1imesub Thank you!

[LCHFinCanada]

You slam Art Devany's credentials without mentioning Art was a professional athlete. It's well known professional athletes require a decent diet and exercise program for a competitive edge. Art also discovered the benefits of weight training in the 50's before the vast majority of people knew it was healthy, and thought it was simply a fad.

Then you compare him to JimMorris. Jim is a bodybuilder. Art is an author/economist who likes to stay in shape. Is this comparison fair?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Wow, an athlete! That proves a lot!

Again, you miss the point. I am just saying you can't put too much importance on photos of individuals.

[llwayneio]

@LCHFinCanada The whole point of that section was to show how pointless photo comparisons are when considering nutrition. So he clearly wasnt trying to imply Jim morris is on a better diet based on the picture, as that would be in conflict with what hes presenting.

[LCHFinCanada]

No, the regulations do not conform to evidence. They conform for POLITICS, as I've clearly stated. You infer something not in my writing.

as for smallpox - how is that argument anything like what I've said? at least the evidence is abundant on what I claim, rather than outlandish and ridiculous, like smallpox being healthy.

[LCHFinCanada]

I'm concerned with the "Have you won any Nobel Prizes" that you call my intelligence and education into question - I'm happy to provide my curriculum vitae if you wish - I would be greatly impressed if yours matched mine in regards to health sciences or work in the health industry.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada It's not about me or anyone else. The point is talk is cheap. Working in health care doesn't mean you are an expert in lipidology. By implying you know as well as Brown and Goldstein, for example, you denigrate their education and genius, as with all the other experts in this field. You don't respect expertise.

[LCHFinCanada]

Recently a doctor in England was taken to his medical board for recommending a low-carb/high-fat diet. It was dieticians (or nutritionists, can't remember) that brought the charges against him.

After months of review and deliberations the adjudicators decided that all of the scientific evidence supported the doctors treatment of his patient. But in that time he was subject to professional sanctions and some ridicule.

Turns out he was right. But It takes years for the truth to be accepted...

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Saturated fat likely induces insulin resistance. You should watch my low carb videos, but I doubt you will.

[LCHFinCanada]

Research shows the BEST diet for diabetics is low-carb. There are some (very, very few) diabetics that eat vegan - and maintain healthy readings. But very, very few.

Barnard has no evidence of returning diabetics to true normal blood glucose levels, let alone full reversal as he claims. His numbers correspond to the ADA's targets of "controlled" which are not good numbers to aim for according to the real independent experts.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada It was a 22 week study. There are very few vegans, period.

If you can avoid becoming diabetic, that's preferable. This is best accomplished with whole plant foods, minimizing saturated fats.

[LCHFinCanada]

Also of note re: the ADA diet - Both the International Diabetes Federation and the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists have much different views of healthy glucose targets than the ADA.

In fact, all studies done have shown the ADA diet to be unhealthy for diabetics. However they would lose their 30+ million in yearly funding from pharmaceutical industry if they changed it, so they don't.

Don't think for a moment the Diabetes association is a health promoter, it's not.

[LCHFinCanada]

As for other confounding variables: Esselstyns study claiming to reverse heart disease had participants 1) stop smoking 2) exercise 3) participate in group therapy 4) have stress-reduction training AND go on statins.

There's no way that with all those confounding variables you can say it was vegan diet alone.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada We're having a problem here. You said Barnard's studies had confounders. You know Barnard and Esselstyn are two different people, right?

So you say statins regress atherosclerosis then? You are strongly pro-statin? Esselstyn treated his subjects as patients, not lab animals. Sorry his strategy worked. An intelligent person without an anti-vegetarian agenda would see his as a smart overall strategy.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Yes, Barnard and Esselstyn were different people, with the same agenda (both directors of the PCRM).

No, statins do not regress atherosclerosis - but Esselstyn's evidence of atherosclerosis regression was 2D images - which are, unfortunately, inconclusive in a 3D environment. Ask any cardiologist, they'll tell you. He knows this but doesn't state it, of course.

His study is so easily debunked it's laughable.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada But you said Barnard's studies had confounders. :-/

So you are saying any cardiologist would say his patients were likely not have experienced improvements in their condition?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Barnard's study didn't compare to LCHF, did it? Barnards study can show vegan is healthier than an ADA recommendation, but as I've mentioned, the ADA recommendation is proven unhealthy by the IDF (International Diabetes Federation) and the AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists.)

Barnard is not a cardiologist. He's a psychiatrist. It's not even clear he's ever practiced medicine at all interestingly enough.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada You can look at my low-carb research videos if you like. This isn't about Barnard.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition As for Barnards studies - first his success with diabetes is according to ADA guidelines, which are not healthy according to both the IDF (International diabetes federation) and the AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists).

His studies 'reveresed' diabetes to within 'controlled' levels according to the ADA, but not anywhere near normal levels. Normal A1c targets are 4.6 to 5.4%. Barnard had no successes into that area.

[82Bdog]

@LCHFinCanada I think you have esselstyn's study mixed up with ornish's. Esselstyn didn't have stress reduction training and didnt' reccomend any exercise except maybe walking.

[LCHFinCanada]

Also of note, Cordain has done research papers supporting his theories. I'm guessing you weren't aware of this. If you mean clinical studies - I'm fairly sure that's a straw-man argument on your point as there are no paleolithic people to do clinical trials on at the moment, last I checked. 3 mummies don't count as a research study.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada You only assume I'm not aware of his papers because you have jumped to conclusions without watching my videos. Regarding your straw man, I don't understand your point. What comment of mine are you addressing?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition you state he's done no studies.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada I am only aware of the five studies he cites himself, covered in my video. What else is there?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Does it matter what else there is, you stated he'd done NO studies. Now you state he's done five...

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada This is again a basic problem of comprehension. I said he cites five. He didn't conduct any of them. I have explained all five in #15, which you have clearly not watched.

[LCHFinCanada]

Hey, you asked me to provide fair critique:

1st, lets dispel your Loren Cordain misconceptions: You say he's not qualified (or imply it) when he's far more qualified than Barnard, Esselstyn etc. You realize in his field he received far more nutritional training than any medical doctor? Medical doctors get less than 25hrs training on nutrition throughout their entire 8+ years in school.

Barnard, by the way, is a psychiatrist. Please advise how Cordain's degree is of less value.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada You've totally missed the point. I said Cordain is unlikely to redefine proper human nutrition. I compare his qualifications to those of a nutrition scientist, not a psychiatrist or a medical doctor, so this is a straw man. Barnard does not claim to be starting a Copernican revolution in nutrition. He also has run several good studies supporting his approach, unlike Cordain.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition any one person is unlikely to redefine human nutrition. That doesn't disprove or discount what Cordain has to say. And the nutrition scientist you compared him to has just as much to say regarding the dangers of veganism as one article that you cite that didn't recommend it over any other diet. She stated health benefits but also said you could get those same benefits from a healthy omnivorous diet too. Barnards studies are full of confounding variables.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Ok, he said Paleo will redefine human nutrition, but the point is the same. The Paleo promoters like him are unlikely to do that given their qualifications. Re Dwyer, again, you are are missing the point. I said Dwyer didn't use fossils to reach her conclusions. Smart veg*ns know what nutrients they need. They aren't in denial of the science, like the cholesterol deniers.

Every study has limitations. What confounders do you have in mind?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Smart vegans wouldn't be in denial of science, I agree.

But "cholesterol deniers" aren't in denial of science either. There are far more studies disproving the cholesterol theory of heart disease than proving it.

Oh wait. there's actually NONE that prove it. Many were inconclusive, many studies point to refined/processed carbs and some now show saturated fat is healthier than going without it. The question must be asked - which of us is in denial?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada You haven't watched my cholesterol videos, have you? And more is coming. So do you believe the lipid hypothesis is the product of a multi-generational international conspiracy? How do you explain its acceptance? Are all these researchers not as smart as you?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition How do I explain it's acceptance? It was accepted by GOVERNMENT people with an agenda (albeit toward better health) while being decried by health professionals.

the lipid hypothesis has always been flatly rejected by most scientists and doctors until government gave it a stamp of approval.

All the researchers are exactly as smart as me, as the research disproves it.

What is your evidence it's valid? I'd be curious since there's no scientific evidence.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Again, you haven't watched my videos. You seem to have some paranoia about the government that affects your perspective. Read some medical journals and textbooks. They aren't produced by the government.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Every vegan diet study I've EVER seen compares itself to a SAD (Standard American Diet).

I'd just once like them to do a study - Vegan diet vs. the same diet BUT with added organic-raised meats. That's the control that's needed before decrying meat as the great cause of health-related issues.

They've never done it. The reason is clear, evidence shows meat is actually healthier. Until they do, their studies are flawed.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada His diabetes study used the ADA diet as the control. This was right and proper.

You can't say all studies are flawed until your dream study is conducted. That's nonsensical. In your view then there has never been a worthwhile study of nutrition.

You should know that any such study would be expensive and that is the reason it or any other one you can name hasn't been done. A study needs to  pass an IRB of some kind and have financial backing.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition The ADA is primarily funded by pharmaceutical companies, and it's recommendations are designed to keep diabetics on medication. Anyone that can think for themselves has realized that.

Do you cater to the pharmaceutical industry now? If you feel the ADA is correct, they also state meat is part of a healthy diet...

The ADA diet is horrible for diabetics. Visit any diabetes forum for evidence of that. Hundreds of thousands of diabetics aren't wrong.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Again, you are spouting nonsense. The ADA was not involved. It was their diet that was used. The study made their diet appear inferior to the vegan high-carb one. Do you understand that?

I am only saying for the purposes of their study, they chose an appropriate control. What do the low carb studies compare their diets to? Whole food vegan diets? Yeah, right...

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition As mentioned, their DIET is not healthy, and that's been proven by many other diabetes organizations. Their targets (which they base their diet on) are also not healthy.

Are you saying thousands of Endocrinologists in the AACE don't understand healthy diabetes regulation? Are you saying Neal Barnard, a psychiatrist, knows more than thousands of diabetes specialists?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Have these organizations expressed a view of Barnard's approach or of whole food vegan diets for diabetics?

AACE says "Limit saturated fats (butter, fatty red meats, tropical plant oils,

fast foods)"

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition AACE and any licensed physican MUST tow the AMA line on saturated fats - Any doctor that goes against saturated fats could be brought to the board at this point in time, until the board adopts the research.

there's very much a political agenda to the saturated fat issue, it's true. Even in medical school today it's still taught, even though it's an unproven, often invalidated hypothesis. But it was accepted by government due to political pressure.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Of course, more conspiracies from misguided scientists. Very believable.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition actually no conspiracy - we're talking about scientific evidence now.

You say you believe scientific evidence, but you discount hundreds of research studies that do NOT confirm the lipid hypothesis?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada I am working on a video for this if you'll let me. ;-)

Scientists look at the strengths and weaknesses of various studies, using multiple lines of evidence. I doubt you have looked at all the evidence. Have you won any Nobel Prizes?

[HumaneHominid]

@LCHFinCanada "AACE and any licensed physican MUST tow the AMA line on saturated fats - Any doctor that goes against saturated fats could be brought to the board ..."

Eek! Regulations conform to evidence? Oh, the horror!

You know, I think smallpox can be healthy, and I don't appreciate all these politically-motivated groups forcing people doctors to recommend vaccines.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition hmm. last comment not showing...

The ADA didn't have to be involved, they used their diet, which is suggested based on their targets. They are also funded by pharmaceutical and food companies, so their bias is sure. Heck, the ADA stamp of approval was on Cocoa Puffs - so can you really call their diet healthy?

The ADA is not a promoter of improving diabetics health, they're controlled by food/pharma.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada "hmm. last comment not showing..."

What was that, a five minute delay? Believe it or not, I have other things to do today.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition as for myself - I used to be over 320lbs at one point. Instead of 11lbs in a year, I lost nearly 100 after finally finding the diet that worked for my own metabolism and needs.

I think it's important we realize no one diet is right for anyone - I'd never suggest it is - there may be some people that respond well on a vegan diet - which you promote. But not others. Most of the vegan weight-loss stories I see were very, very, slow. Some just don't have the patience for that

[rpmangin]

Those paleo idiots are inconsistent. They say they ban dairy, yet lots of them consistently use butters, creams, and cheeses in their cookings. Then again, lots of them openly admit to following the 80/20 rule or 90/10 rule (as evidenced by a picture of Mark Sisson eating ice cream).

[LCHFinCanada]

@rpmangin well, to be fair - I know a few people that say they eat vegan "six days a week" too.

So I hardly see how that's anything other than their personal choice. Personal preference about diet doesn't make any one right or wrong, you know?

[rpmangin]

@LCHFinCanada dietary veganism does not always = true veganism. Some people may not prefer the taste of animal products, including milk and eggs, yet have no problem wearing leather, using other products tested on animals, having pets (which may not be consistent with "true veganism"), so if a person eats vegan six days a week, one cannot consider one's self a true vegan.

[rpmangin]

I noticed the bit where you ask, "Are we MEANT to brush and floss our teeth?" Interestingly enough, cleaning one's teeth IS natural, and animals in the wild DO instinctively clean their teeth.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

They don't brush and floss, though, do they? ;-)

[LCHFinCanada]

BTW, have you READ the Eco Atkins study?

The study reports "ample evidence that low-carb diets produce improvements in triglyerides, insulin resistance, and HDL cholesterol relative to high-carb/low-fat diets." which you claim is untrue.

It was interesting considering that their "low-carb" study was also 27% calories from carb, which isn't anywhere near low-carb. It's 3x what's considered low-carb, so much of it doesn't apply to real low-carb studies.

Cherry picked and proves nothing.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada What did I say was untrue? I said TG and HDL were context-dependent and less significant than LDL. I covered this. I disagree with this overly-simplified line.

Yes, for low carbers, there is always too much carb to be low carb. The point of the study was to try to find a better way to do low carb. Unless you insist on ketosis (and why would you want that?), this suggests a safer alternative to standard low carb. I'm not sure why you would be hostile to it.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition I don't see a problem with ketosis for anyone that needs to lose weight - it's optimum for fat-burning. Once desired fat loss is achieved it's unlikely a requirement for good health, I do agree with that.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada "unlikely a requirement for good health" To say the least.

There are healthier ways to lose weight. Too many people want quick fixes to problems that were created over years.

[rpmangin]

@PrimitiveNutrition Correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is losing body weight, and assuming it's all from fat, wouldn't that imply the body is in KETOSIS if MORE FAT THAN USUAL is being burned? Yes, I am aware the body is always using fat for energy to some degree.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@rpmangin No, ketosis requires the Krebs cycle to be broken. This is covered in #59, I believe.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition @PrimitiveNutrition some obese people simply do not lose weight without ketosis. If they are so far gone into metabolic-syndrome and or type II diabetes, this is often the case. It's sad but true.

For those only overweight or borderline obese, it's not necessarily the case. It was the case for me, nothing really worked until ketosis.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Not to be argumentative, but do you have any references for that or is that your opinion? As Dr Barnard says, low carb caters to the problem. With high saturated fat consumption, it instead perpetuates it. I won't give advice to any individual here, but I provide references for why I believe this.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition references for which? the comments aren't telling me exactly which one you're replying to for some reason.

If you're meaning obese people that don't respond well without ketosis... Yes, I can link to dozens of studies showing this.

The problem is most non-keto diets, regardless of type, seem to end up with similar results. Of those that stay in, the average weight loss for obese patients is around 11lbs per year. That's NOT encouraging if you're 400lbs.

[stinkyklein]

You think paleo is a fad diet? Well i think veganism is a fad diet.

If our ancestors refrained from eating animals, you wouldn't be here.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@stinkyklein Veganism is quite old and it's not really a diet. It's an ethic that sets constraints on diet. It was not created for weight loss or to sell books. Paleo is new and trademarked.

This is appeal to nature fallacy and quite speculative.

[stinkyklein]

@PrimitiveNutrition Paleo is not new, it's the oldest way of eating. Period. It's older than veganism. Also, paleo is not a diet (like Atkins), it's a lifestyle, and it can be customized to each individual. It's eating food that the human body evolved to eat. If you made a wolf eat only grass from birth, I think it'd get sick and die.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@stinkyklein I address these fallacies in the videos.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition not with science you don't. You addressed it with Propaganda, I'm afraid.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Did I not provide enough references for you? Repeating myself: I guess from your perspective, any reasoned argument for one's own views is propaganda. I have produced these to benefit you and your loved ones. If you feel medical institutions are spreading propaganda when they advise people not to smoke, then I am happy to be called a propagandist by you.

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition Any references you have were very cherry-picked an ignore all scientific evidence to the contrary. How is only listening to one side of a debate science? How is only present one side of an argument helping anyone make an informed decision? It's not.

You are just a vegan propagandist. Spend some time on Google Scholar looking at low-carb vs. low-fat diets. Low-carb is clearly superior for heart disease, diabetes and weight-loss. Period.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Maybe you could help me with your definition of "cherry-picked" and give me an example of that from my videos. I am not a journalist so I don't have to pretend there are two equally legitimate points of view here. Do you go on Paleo or low carb comment sections and criticize them for not offering the vegan point of view?

Yeah, you're right, I really should have looked at some low-carb studies. :-/ How many videos on the low carb would have been enough for you?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition First, yes I do criticize people who automatically discount vegan lifestyles as unhealthy. The vegan lifestyle is proven statistically healthier than a standard american diet.

however, there is much evidence to suggest that a vegan who adds meat into their diet, while maintaining all other health factors, improves in markers of health and lowers their risk of cancers.

I do my research independently. Yours obviously shows a bias.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada If you watch my videos, you'll see that whole food veganism is healthier than low carb, too. For example, see the Eco Atkins study.

Of course, you are unbiased, "Low-Carb High-Fat in Canada".

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition As I mentioned - I have nothing against veganism. I have issues with propaganda videos.

My decision to go LCHF was after a diagnosis of diabetes. I did investigate and try the vegan diet. It did not work for my symptoms. LCHF did work. I no more promote LCHF than I do Paleo or veganism. I do believe veganism with proper supplementation can be healthy, I just believe adding meat into it to be moreso, and the evidence supports me, not you in this regard.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Can you suggest a video about veganism you do not consider to be propaganda? I'm curious what your standard is for that.

Are you type 2 diabetic? Do I assume correctly that you tried Barnard's approach? What is your saturated fat intake like?

[LCHFinCanada]

@PrimitiveNutrition watch?v=FytZI6EEXvQ is one from Moby that wasn't offensive, a little inaccurate when he suggested his friend ate nothing but animal products to see if it's healthy - nobody recommends that, but otherwise it was just about him, and his respect for others.

yes I'm type II. Yes, I tried his approach. Originally I limited my saturated fat as per both what he suggested and my dietician. My trigs were horrible. After eating LCHF everything improved.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@LCHFinCanada Yes, but it has no objective content, just personal testimonial. You have to understand my motivation here. I believe there is a lot misinformation in Paleo and low carb that needs to be balanced. Plant-based diets are offered primarily by way of contrast. I won't dare try to give you advice, but I provide plenty of references in later videos of how sat fat damages your metabolism.

Good luck regardless of your path.

[HumaneHominid]

@LCHFinCanada "How is only listening to one side of a debate science? How is only present one side of an argument helping anyone make an informed decision?"

Sometimes, only one side is correct, and the other is wrong. Science is about figuring out which is which, not about giving equal time to incorrect or wrong hypotheses. Is it "cherry-picking" to ignore the Zodiac in astrophysics?

[Luciizza]

Lmao how did this get so many upvotes?

Whiney annoying narrator who's obviously ill-informed.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@Luciizza So what's your informed argument that I missed? Enlighten me.

[theapc816]

The only agenda that exists in science is the pursuit of truth. To premise your series on conversion to a specific ideology, Veganism, is antithetical to science and assures confirmation bias. You are not the "Scientific Review."

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@theapc816 You might have a point if I expressed that in that way. I make it quite clear when I am expressing my opinions and values. Is that wrong in your view? Who said these YouTube videos are scientific review? When you meet someone truly free of bias, let me know.

"Veganism" isn't a proper noun so you don't need to capitalize it.

If you are such a defender of science, maybe you should try not making things up.

[Zerafinel]

I was a vegetarian for many years, now I'm a happy Paleo/Primal eater. If there's anything I'm inoculated against it's vegetarian nonsense arguments. We know too much. The part of the Paleo world who has been vegetarian/vegan, we've learned the hard way what happens if you don't eat what our bodies are adapted to eat. Not even the ethical argument for vegetarianism is valid - I've examined it in depth.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@Zerafinel Well darn, I thought I did research it! Where are your videos?

Sorry you couldn't figure out how to succeed on a plant-based diet. Maybe if you watch these videos you'll do better if you try again. Good luck.

[Lixuzstatic]

@Zerafinel vegetarian or whole foods low fat vegan? What problems did you have?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@JulietHuman If your comments made sense to you, then I can see why you got sucked into the paleo fairy tale.

[JulietHuman]

I've been SAD, then vegan, now Paleo. Paleo has worked wonders for me and many others. Why would you be attacking Paleo instead of SAD? It really makes no sense unless you have an ulterior motive. Do you love animals more than people and their health?

[HumaneHominid]

@JulietHuman That's a completely false choice.

[Lixuzstatic]

@JulietHuman Try watching the videos before making comments like this. He explains his views very clearly. You don't have to believe them. I think there's enough people out there attacking SAD and not enough "attacking" paleo. He does deal with the aspects of SAD that are the worst.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@hanskeer Well, it does deserve clarification. I hope I make plain throughout the series that I do not believe a perfect diet exists. The need for B12 supplementation makes most vegan diets imperfect. Check out Don Matesz (Primal Wisdom) for more on this. It's a pretty minor problem. However, major deficiencies of many nutrients the body cannot store for 20 years and an absolute requirement for broths to buffer metabolic wastes is a whole other matter.

[hanskeer]

I think in video 46 or 47 you say quite rightly that a good diet would not ask for supplementation. Still you need to supplement B12 in case of a vegan-diet. This sounds conflicting, does not it?

[Lixuzstatic]

@hanskeer When a diet makes a claim like eating like our ancestors supposedly did is natural & therefore healthy, it's a contradiction to say that you need to take supplements. Well educated vegan doctors up front admit that you MIGHT need B12 supplementation to suceed on this diet long term. They don't make business out of it or any supplement in most cases though. B12 deficiency occurs in non vegans too.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@vtoniolo As I said, who I am is immaterial. I've presented references for everything here. If you haven't seen the end of the series yet, I state that I don't think a nutritional argument can be made for perfect veganism. The choice to be vegan must rooted in ethics. I turned vegan based on nutrition only, as sort of an experiment just to see how I felt. When it became clear how well it worked for me, that's when I had to acknowledge the ethical issues, which I now feel are very important.

[vtoniolo]

PrimitiveNutrition, can you tell us more about yourself and your own training in nutrition? Are you an ethical vegan?

[hanskeer]

Up until now (video 42) I do not agree with a lot you are stating, but you also are making points. You must have put a lot of effort in this series. You are cleverly using the points you make to make the points you can't make ;-). Who are you, what is your background? I think this series can give a lot of insight to paleo-supporters and non-paleo-supporters.

[Lixuzstatic]

@hanskeer Why don't you state what you disagree with and and why?

[hanskeer]

@Lixuzstatic If I can find the time I may do so after finishing this series.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@kkupecz I'm totally reading from a script! As I say at the end of this one, it's not about me. The references are in front of you the whole way. I make it clear I am a whole food vegan, which I think is enough to give you an idea of my perspective.

[kkupecz]

I'm up to video 9...pretty interesting so far. I think you would lend more credibility if you revealed who you are, your background, diet you follow, qualifications, and perhaps your source job/source of income. It sort of feels like you are reading from a script.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@Rodrigonikity3 Maybe, but that seems beside the point.

[Rodrigonikity3]

Most of these good looking vegans take suplements.

[newtofruit]

@Rodrigonikity3 Meat eating bodybuilders take more supplements than most, you can't say "They take supplements because there vegan" When every bodybuilder out there takes enormous amounts of supplements. IMO vegan bodybuilders take way less

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@sclaysdharma The suggestion seems to be that you were somehow nutritionally deficient. You might have considered consulting a nutritionist or having a metabolic panel to determine where you were going wrong.

[sclaysdharma]

I practically wrecked my health trying to maintain different versions of vegetarian/vegan diets for over 25 years. The last diet I was on was a raw vegan diet which I added in grass fed beef and wild caught fish to(I guess you could then call it a Paleo type diet). I reversed my gum disease, have not had a cavity, have not been sick, and have increased my performance significantly since this dietary change. Of course this is just a n=1 example, but my results are quite dramatic.

[jjay75]

@sclaysdharma Probably starving yourself on your vegan diet. You have to eat enough calories or veganism doesn't work as well. It's still better than including meat though, so I can only imagine you were eating half the calories you required on a vegan diet.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

I WILL NOT BE ALLOWING ANY MORE CLAIMS OF AD HOMINEM ATTACKS TO APPEAR IN THE COMMENTS. It seems the term is not understood. I say, "He is not alone among paleo nutrition promoters in this odd discordance between his credentials and his ambitions." THIS IS ONLY AN OBSERVATION THAT SKEPTICISM IS WARRANTED. Ad hominems are UNRELATED to the matter at hand (education matters in science, sorry) and the SOLE BASIS of argumentation. I did 70 more videos on the particulars, if you didn't notice.

[llwayneio]

@PrimitiveNutrition well said, Seems like all internet debate seems to end in one party shouting, ad hominem! strawman! even if the terms arent applicable

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@DrewBaye If you are watching my videos, you are forced to look at my references so this is not an easy argument to make. Is any of this wrong because I'm a vegan? Can you name the fallacy?

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@stpayne24 I'm trying to do the right thing by educating the public. I want to save human and animal lives. If you ever have a health problem that could have been prevented with proper diet, you will understand the serious consequences of nutritional misinformation. Those who treat this subject irresponsibly should be called to account.

[stpayne24]

What are you trying to accomplish here? Attacking the very people who are ardently following the Paleo Diet doesn't sound like a great way to win converts

[PrimitiveNutrition]

Appearing in the still are Ed Bauer, Robert Cheeke, and Monica Parodi

[PrimitiveNutrition]

@ecwilsonaz This series is all about giving a surfeit of evidence from primary Paleo and mainstream sources. If you can't see that, then perhaps you are the one distorting reality. Pick another video to watch in the first 31 and see if you can maintain this opinion.

[ecwilsonaz]

Your mischaracterization of paleo is depressing, cynical, and manipulative. I watched a couple of these and it seems like you have quite the reality distortion field going.

[DrewBaye]

@ecwilsonaz How ironic that primitivenutrition claims to be "educating the public" and criticizes others for misinformation when he is the one doing this misinforming. It's just more vegan propaganda.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

You didn't see my previous comment? Let me ask you, do you have a high degree of training in anything? If you do, do you think your opinions of matters within that subject are more or less valuable than someone with no training in that subject? Do you think education matters in science? And again, ad hominem is fallacious because it introduces an irrelevant topic. And I do not dismiss their ideas on this basis alone. If you want to allege a fallacy, understand the fallacy first.

[mattowan]

OMG. The whole first video is an ad hominem attack at some of the higher profile proponents of the Paleo Diet. Are the rest of the videos as bad? There are plenty of PHD's and MD's who are horrible at what they do. A title does not bestow the expertise one assumes it does.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

I am merely pointing out that the paleo gurus lack qualifications in nutrition science and epidemiology. That is not an ad hominem attack, which requires the identification of an unrelated trait to create bias. I address their specific claims objectively later. I do not say this issue alone makes them wrong. I do not believe Cordain is the Steve Jobs of nutrition. Nutrition scientists like Dwyer don't typically use fossils to create their recommendations. Should they?

[gfdgawergfasfdsa]

Pointing out the credentials of different proponents of each diet is an ad hominem attack and plays no role in determining the value of either diet. You could similarly start off an argument about technological savvy by discrediting Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, both of whom have no college degrees at all. Starting this series off with a logical fallacy doesn't give the best first impression.

[PrimitiveNutrition]

I let this comment through just to respond to it. It is inappropriate to assume the use of steroids by these athletes. Look up some pictures of pro IFBB bodybuilders and you'll see what the results of steroid use look like.

In any case, the purpose of this sequence is simply to say, "to find the truth about diet, photos of healthy-looking people can only take us so far." Those who have criticized my use of these photos are totally missing the point.

[FunkadelicFlash]

Steroids much?

[RawTris]

=D