horowitz plays brahms piano concerto #1 - mvt3 - 1935

[davidbaker03]

Amazing TRILLS!

[sw71195]

incredible! Is it not possible to get a recording of this performance?

[neveka]

Fantastico...Incandescente!!!!­!!

[EdwardHKDC]

This is great! Do we know what technology was used to record it from the radio? - direct to disc, or a wire recorder or early tape recorder? The latter were just coming in in the mid 1930s. I hear no clicks, which suggests to me that it wasn't to disc.

[kasyapa]

@EdwardHKDC probably disk, little-listened-to and with cleanup. i've had the recordings since the mid-1980s.

[OrangeSodaKing]

Allegro MOLTO TROPPO!!!!! Lol :D Gotta love those octaves at 5:40!

Check out Ogdon's recording. It's got a whole lot of energy and fire, too.

[kasyapa]

@OrangeSodaKing - as someone pointed out, no one thought it especially madly insanely fast at the time. we underwent a weird transformation of the idea of tempo in the 20th c.

[Nijmegen1955]

This man was a GENIUS !!!

Thanx kasyapa for uploading this wonder

[kasyapa]

Nijmegen1955 - you are welcome! i received this on a tape many years ago, and have loved its glories ever since. i aim to get as much of horowitz up as i can within legal bounds. :)

[Nijmegen1955]

@kasyapa You're my man ! Horowitz 4 ever.

[soami2u]

Wow! I had no idea Horowitz ever played the Brahms D Minor! A brilliant and exciting performance...the many technical difficulties in this work were child's play for Horowitz!

[kasyapa]

soami2u - many are the surprises of horowitz.

[4785689]

1936

[EmceeLorder]

Man, this guy is on fire!

[kasyapa]

EmceeLorder - that's what he was made of - fire and air.

[bertogel]

Horowitz is probably the greatest of all the times for a lot of reasons but not for Brahms or Beethoven, I prefer to listen to his Scarlatti or Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Mozkowsky, Chopin and so on. However the clip is very interesting.

[kasyapa]

agreed almost entirely re. v.h. and beethoven - i listen to nothing of him playing beethoven except op. 101 - he comes closest to success there. and notice that one is diffuse and sort of schumannesque late beethoven, incipiently romantic. he just couldn't accept that beethoven wasn't for him - perhaps because of the [ridiculous] charge that horowitz had no intellect. as for brahms, he did not record enough for me to say - i love the v.h./walter brahms 1 with all my heart - his brahms 2, no.

[bertogel]

Faster than light

[kasyapa]

but not sound.

[uhartchristian]

it is an incredible interpretation as ever when horowitz touches the piano in good health. this recording is a sensation. a pity he did not play this in later years too.... its another brahms we are used to . nothing is wrong to make it high speed. nothing got lost because of this. it even gets more clear and understandable. Horowitz was a composer too and you can feel this how he understands the composition here....

[kasyapa]

the music absolutely holds together - we see new things because of interpretations like this. of course there are other things to see and feel when tempi are slower - that's the greatness of art - that the same beginning can yield such wonderful ends.

[bravoMisirlou]

I think it's to fast but I know Horowitz is the BEST

[kasyapa]

it is an amazing, blazing interpretation - the triumph at the end is unique.

[Dionito4u2]

Music is sound in time...

[abuhm]

I think its too fast.. correct me please if i am wrong!

[TiqueO6]

Brahms himself didn't want to add metronome markings to scores. He felt the metronome was mechanical and not human enough. He only did so at the urgings of others.

(It is one of the fastest I've heard and has it's own particular merits even though something might get lost in general when things get rushed.)

There is the possibility that the playback speed isn't accurate although if it's in 442 pitch that would seem perhaps to indicate it's accuracy. If it was a 440 pitch sped up to 442...?

[nico22059]

Golden age of pianism, and music...we´ll never have pianists like those, specially because now lots of people are fond on Kissin, Lang Lang and company, who are just pianists, and not great musicians...people prefer flawless interpretations other than an original reading, that´s a a pity, and that´s why the golden age of music has come to an end

[TheVieuxchat]

You are quite right. The music highschools and the international competions give us great piano technicians, without artistry and culture

[thuztra]

My heart with joy resound! Thanks, Kasyapa.

You can't imagine the exhilaration this treasure brings to many.

[kasyapa]

i am truly glad it touched you thus. thank the heavens someone was around to record it - and those fragile discs survived - and were given to the world.

[serox901]

there actually is a cd of this, i dont know if its this exact recording. its on itunes and amazon.

[kasyapa]

yes, some of these off-the-air recordings have appeared on media like that over the years: all non-official - i.e., unaffiliated with horowitz's recording companies of the time, surely without any royalty payment.

[serox901]

i mean, i'm not sure if its this exact performance, i just was very surprised that horowitz had a recording of this peice. not to mention happy.

[kasyapa]

yes. that finale in the walter performance is one of horowitz's great bursts of joy.

[paulostroff99]

Finest performance IMHO of any piano concerto ever recorded! Bravo! TY for this gem of gems.

[MaxxUS08]

I think I found this recording (or something very, very similar) on ArkivMusic--search Brahms-- Pno Crto--Walter, and there it is. 1936 is pretty close, same ensemble/soloist.

[kasyapa]

ah ok. that was not my source, but i am glad to know it's out there. i am sure it's on several european small labels. ;)

[MaxxUS08]

Thanks for posting this!! Walter and Brahms is a combination which has yet to be rivaled.

[kasyapa]

you are very much welcome ... i am glad it spoke to you so well!

[mathpianist93]

goddamn it if the vinyl discs back then could tolerate longer recordings, then Horowitz and Walter would not be forced to play it at this tempo!

[kasyapa]

they'd no idea they were being recorded - it's off the radio. :) such tempi were not considered madly fast then - prevailing tempi have slowed unbelievably since the 19th century. as harold schonberg observes, we're actually falsifying the music with these tempi.

[mathpianist93]

Schoenberg said that?

But in determining the tempo "non troppo" have the largest impact. I have listened to many interpretations of this concerto, and from what I've heard I prefer a quarter note value of around 88 - 96.

[kasyapa]

schonberg pointed out timings of pianists in live recordings of the same piece were gradually lengthening out, so much so that the music was becoming a different entity. you can also tell that faster tempi were accepted earlier because there are many live recordings at sound to us like very fast tempi that received normal reviews.

[mathpianist93]

that is a good point he made, but I disagree with him that pianists distorted the intent of the composer.

[cziffra1980]

Think about how fast many 'allegro' markings are played at though. This tempo IS non troppo! 88 crotchets per minute arguably stretches the limits of 'allegro' (lively!) entirely. It's like the 'moonlight' 1st mvt which is usually played absurdly slowly, if you consider the 2 beats in a bar. Think of the actual pulse behind the music, not what you usually hear done.

[mathpianist93]

I wish Brahms simply marked Molto maestoso, non allegro for this Rondo. and for the first movement, I wish he put Allegro maestoso.

[cziffra1980]

With the first movement, consider the fact that 6/4 has TWO beats per bar and not 6. Horowitz's tempo seems extremely relevant and logical if you think about the actual pulse (although I dislike the fact that he additionally hurries at times- especially in the trill passages). Horowitz's tempo would fit the description of 'maestoso' perfectly well. However, Brahms may have deliberately avoided marking it, as an attempt to prevent performers from going too slow.

[palmerplantagenet]

Comparing Toscanini(cd) and Walter (LP) - Horowitz Brahms #1: The Walter phonically better. Particularly Horowitz' playing I prefer with Walter. He reminds of a thoroughbred race horse pulling at the bit. Extremely masculine playing of an extremely masculine concerto. Slow movement is his weakest. Of course he performs it very well, but would prefer slower, with Horowitz squeezing out every ounce of pathos, with the spiritual form and effect uppermost, e.g. as Backhaus and Serkin do.

[mathpianist93]

MASCULINE? bad descriptor...

[palmerplantagenet]

Bad descriptor? Maybe. An old soldier tutorially demanded a class to name the two types of weaponry. Most common answer came back: short range, long range. No!, he fairly shouted. Direct and indirect. So, perhaps that cliche: toMAto/toMOto, is apropos. (to be continued...)

[palmerplantagenet]

(continuing...) Most often, Brahms is thought of as nobly Apollonian, and his second movement here, and entire, philosophical Second Concerto certainly are. But the First's outer movements, to me, epitomize a somber, restless and aggressive energy. And with Horowitz' nervous, "pin-to-the-wall" display - well, my resultant 'bad descriptor'. Granted, for those who equate Dionysian with Yin rather than Yang, "masculine" then a non sequitur

[Vancouverite39]

Some of the bad habits alluded to with Horowitz would be, quite simply this: noisy, grotesque showing off at the expense of--though perhaps posing as--musical sensitivity. Yet he did have a great talent and one of the most powerful technical commands of the piano, so his interpretations are important to hear, at least to get an idea of what is possible on the piano.

[serox901]

is there a recording of this?

[kasyapa]

what do you mean? a CD?

[serox901]

yes!

[kasyapa]

i have seen a CD in the 1990s from an italian pirate company. check christian johannsen's horowitz website.

[serox901]

could you send me a link? google search didnt show anything.

[kasyapa]

did you ever find it?

[serox901]

yep, all of horowitz's performances of this piece are on itunes

[kasyapa]

ok, good. regret the long delay in reply - back then i was working on my most recent book and missed a number of replies. am replying to some now when i find them.

[serox901]

no problem, good luck with your book

[anblanco333]

i think many of topics of possible discussion are already said by the comments. I am a great great admiror of H. i consider he is the best in many aspects of great pianism, but mabye what i see as bad habits where the good ones in 1935, and i resume this in arrau´s words: vanity, vanity. Indeed he put off beard of brahms phrase, and that is what im not sure i like it. Notice that i said "like it", not "is correct" "good" or something objective.

[anblanco333]

very interesting, i don´t know yet if i like this or not. H. super technique is here at evidence of course, but there are too all his bad habits

[kasyapa]

i'm curious what bad habits you see in him. (not for purposes of argumentation - truly curious.)

[55offer]

I LOVE THIS PIECE! HOROWITZ 4EVER!!

[kasyapa]

i cannot imagine anyone listening to the climax and not being glad to be alive. horowitz succeeds in his project of showing "brahms without his beard."

[55offer]

amen

[kasyapa]

tempi back then were significantly faster (and conductors followed soloists even more than today). the tempi that sound normal today are, as some writers have pointed out, so slow as to represent a distortion of the masters' wishes. i think this tempo makes sense in the piece, but it's about as fast as possible while still remaining coherent.