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From: GodLowDown
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  • Its not about being atheist, its about studing and learning about real science! I respect your POV, However you have much to learn about the universe! Again hit me up on Twitter @RonaldvonMitch. I have all of your points covered!

  • Perhaps you should first tackle the absurd notion that God wasn't created!

    It is more than easy to imagine how our terrified and ignorant primitive ancestors came to the conclusion that an invisible being controlled the weather and decided who died when and how. It is easy to imagine why they devised ways to beg and plead with this being to spare them from the calamities they saw happening around them.. And why they would want to feed it so it wouldn't come to devour them. Come on, grow up.

  • You make a lot of assumptions about the emotional states of people you do not know. You may tell yourself that I just have a need to reject your favorite superhero if that makes you comfortable. The fact remains, to me, Yahweh is as likely to exist as Amun-Ra; if either one showed up today, I would accept it.

    Since you bring the point on real truth in the spiritual realm: Buddhism and some Hindu traditions are far easier to square with science than the favored faith of your birth culture.

  • he's right, the real reason people are atheists is because theyve been hurt before at some point in their and have trouble putting their faith into god for fear of being hurt again. but they shouldnt fear because jesus is all loving and all merciful ;)

  • @MrSupasexi Yeah, I became an atheist after my uncle molested me. Twenty years later, I got in a car crash and was medically dead for 10 minutes. In that time I saw what was waiting for me if I didn't believe. By a miracle of god I came back to life and immediately repented, replinishing my fate in Zeus, the god of thunder!

  • @AbstractUserName see just the fact that you feel the need to reply with a sarcastic comment is proving my point lol

  • @MrSupasexi Yeah, i'm sorry, I don't actually believe in Zeus, I believe in Woden, the old English god of the forest! I mean it's so easy to know who the real god is, it's the one your parents believe in!

  • @AbstractUserName i feel bad for you man, obviously youre hurting inside from something. hope you find some healing man, god bless.

  • @MrSupasexi Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on atheists who were originally, say, Jewish?

  • @AbstractUserName same opinion as all atheists

  • @MrSupasexi So, atheists who were originally members of some other religion were hurt inside when they were indoctrinated in the other religion and then hurt a second time to make them atheist?

  • @AbstractUserName lol i knew you were gonna say that. but yes and no, i believe there is a very small amount that turn to atheism just from the "facts". But id say the majority that do were never really part of the religion in the first place, how many people do you know who say theyre part of a religion just because thats what all their family is? and another reason i believe is people like my stepdad. he witnessed his mom die a painful death from cancer and is very angry at god now.

  • @MrSupasexi I would agree depending on the person. In the community of atheists I associate with, most hold their beliefs because of some combination of logical or scientific reasons. An example of a group of people I would consider to be "angry at god atheists" are hipsters. One of my previous girlfriends was this way. She professed to be an atheist, but held the same illogical beliefs of Christians. I understand that not all hipsters are this way, but from my experience, many are.

  • @AbstractUserName yeah but here beliefs arent illogical lol. honestly if you look at it, atheists views are really illogical

  • @MrSupasexi "honestly if you look at it, atheists views are really illogical" - I wonder about this claim, let us inspect it.

    What about the position that:

    Yahweh and all the other gods yet proposed by human beings, are as likely to actually exist as fairies, unicorns, the flying spaghetti monster, and a celestial teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars

    do you propose defies the principles of logic?

    Please be specific.

  • @AndreisEntaro listen to what the guy said in the video. do you honestly think the universe just created itself? what do you know of in this universe that is capable of just appearing out of nowhere?

  • @MrSupasexi You've asked the question, See here for the answer so far: watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

    Answers are out there, you just have to look for them. It's not as easy as saying "bob did it", or "I personally can't think of a way for x to happen so it must be impossible". "We/I don't yet know" is an acceptable answer.

    As I said though, it's not likely that the cause for the big bang is as complex as an intelligence; could be, but we don't know that yet and anyone who claims they do is lying to you.

  • @MrSupasexi However, we digress; let us get to investigating your claim.

    What about the atheist position violates which principles of logic?

    Or are you immediately prepared to drop that claim?

    I hope you will think about it and have a look at the linked video.

    You don't actually have to pick an unsupported answer and defend it. If your current world view is the truth, it shall stand against all honest questioning. If it is not, you shall be better off for having realized it.

  • @AndreisEntaro i did look at the video and the guy admitted that it was unknown. and i find if funny cause he used Einstein to support his claim but Einstein in fact supported that there has to be a god. so you say its ridiculous to put my faith into a god, when ive witnessed first hand miracles, but instead i should listen to atheist who cant back up their claims? thats another question how do you explain the many miracles people have recieved when they prayed to jesus?

  • @MrSupasexi If you want to use Einstein to support your faith, I suggest you first read on his idea of 'god' and see if that is actually what you believe. He did not believe in a personal god like Yahweh or Wotan.

    amazon(.)com/Einsteins-God-Con­versations-Science-Spirit/dp/0­143116770

    "so you say its ridiculous to put my faith into a god" - Nope, never did.

    We can deal miracles later.

    Still waiting for you to back up the claim that "a personal god is unlikely" violates some tenant of logic.

  • @AndreisEntaro oh yeah i know he said that but still the fact that theres a god. and i think it violates some tenant of logic because of all the unexplained miracles that happened when people came to jesus. you can even look them up on here, like how do you explain people who got there cancer cured or women who could not have kids and then after praying felt a scrubbing sensation and then was able to have kids. coincidence? i think not.

  • @MrSupasexi " that theres a god" I'll say again that you should read his words on it or at least a book on him. Einstein did not define god the way you do. He used the term more to describe the universe.

    "violates some tenant of logic" Which fallacy do you claim the position commits? This is a poor approach as well. Any ideology can be either logically consistent or not. Two can both be consistent and opposing. That you have a magical view on unlikely events does not make non-belief illogical.

  • @MrSupasexi As for your miracles: Let us inspect. Please name one cancer patient that had their cancer cured by prayer alone without also seeking help from a medical professional.

    Then explore this site: whywontgodhealamputees(.)com and come back with your response to the authors questions.

    If you can answer these fairly I have one more concern regarding a study on heart surgery funded by the Templeton Foundation which I would have you address before I accept that your miracles are from a god.

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  • @MrSupasexi all loving what planet are you living on, if there is a god he sure as fuck dosent want us to worship it, if you were god would you i sure hope not. athiests don't say there is no god they say there is no proof for god. if some guy came up and said to you he spoke with (put your god here). would you belive him, i hope not, how about you best friend still probaly not, but no you pick the book written by someguy in a cave trying to get rich 2000 years ago

  • @smokeshow1984 yeah i actually would believe them. look up 90 minutes in heaven by don piper.

  • @MrSupasexi you are nothing but a sheep. and personally i would hate to go to heaven. and for your info what he experienced was not heaven, when you die your brain (which nothing more then a biological computer) fires off all that build up energy and experiences kinda like when you dream. you don't have a sole no one does you are a monkey with self inflated view of himself. and all your pastors play into that, and why would they do that, money,

  • @smokeshow1984 1. why would you hate to go to a place with no pain and pure happiness? 2. he was dead for 90 minutes, the brain stops working at about 10-15 so it clearly was his brain that was causing this 3. soul* not sole 4. im not a monkey im a human 5. my pastor frequently donates money so our church members can pay off hospital bills, rent, etc.......6. jesus loves you :D

  • @smokeshow1984 wasnt his brain*

  • ATHEISM = the arrogant belief the whole universe wasn't created just for them

  • @smokeshow1984 i literally JUST read that like 30 seconds before i saw this comment lmao

  • What is responsible for the laws of physics? Although the statement you just gave from Hawkins does not address this.But I think it is a valid question.I would love to come up with some tests to find out,or we could just say that a bronze age deity did it.Even though the description that we choose of him comes from a book that has consistently been proven wrong in it's explanation of origins.

  • VOTED DOWN since you disabled that function.

  • I am an Atheist and I do NOT agree with Hawkings statement, if that is actually how he said it. I believe the universe was created from something like matter... Space dust... However you want to say it... Matter that exploded into the universe in which we reside...

  • Wow 4 minutes to get to the "you just hate god boo hoo" please mate take a step back from ur happy little lying culture and be fuckin honest with urself

  • As an atheist I don't believe in god, but that doesn't say anything more about me. I can disagree with all of science too, and say that we cannot know anything.

  • I, an atheist, had the same issue with Hawking's statement. Your complaint could be carried further too. But surely you realize this "moving the problem one step back" is the identical move god provides.

    I can't elaborate here, but this is my answer. Time, as a measurement of change using a standard motion, is only applicable within the universe. The universe itself is timeless or eternal. It did not need to be created. The big bang was not the beginning of the universe, only a change of being.

  • Hypothetically our universe may have been created through collisions of P-Branes. M-Theory is an extension of String Theory that happens to explain the creation of the universe.

  • Pretty much all of our current models of the universe assume a beginning and an end... A time before and after time, if you will. However, there are a few, less popular notions about the universe which assume an infinite space/time continuum. One which would grossly dwarf what we "know" as the universe. It is entirely possible that what we refer to as thew universe is but one area of a much larger space, with multiple examples of similar occurrences. But, we can only speculate about this...

  • Okay, now that the fun, BS question is out of the way... Here's the real problem with what is stated in this video. It assumes someone had to have written the "Law of gravity" for it to come into effect. It completely ignores the fact that the law needed no writing since it is an effect of matter. It would likely predate the existence of matter, but, would only come into effect once matter is there to effect, and be effected by, it. Assuming matter did not always exist infinitely.

  • Okay, let's assume the argument is correct... All things must be created, well, except of course for magical, mystical, supreme, beings. That things simply cannot spring forth from nothingness, and all these things would have to have existed in one form or another to finally become what they are now. Assuming that GOD already existed, and was not, himself, created by some even more supreme being, and of course, was the one and only of his kind... Where did GOD get his building materials from?

  • Have you ever considered the following answer regarding how the Universe began: "I don't know?" Have you ever given thought to the likelihood that what happened before the Big Bang is completely incomprehensible to the human mind and ever shall be?

  • you ask in your other video's that atheists hate creationists but then you hate on us? that's cool

  • Hoping this is satire... but I think you failed to understand Hawkings statement in itself. No where did it imply that gravity had to be there before the universe was.

    And quantum physics and relativity are very weird, but they are also true. These two things, these massives forces of weirdness, were ,if anything, some of the biggest things in play during the Big Bang. And you're going to say that it's improbable just because it seems strange?

  • too stupid for science? try religion!

  • @GodLowDown

    Haven't you understood by now that YOU are the one who's really claiming that the universe was created "out of nothing" ?

    Where did your god get all the matter/energy from when he decided to create this universe ? His magic pocket ? Or did he just blink with an eye and suddenly it was there ? It doesn't really matter, does it, because in any case, it was created out of nothing.

  • fag

  • I DISAGREE, understanding evolution is way more relevant to our lives than understanding the beginning of the universe! ;)

    Bytheway, atheists who aren't experts of physics (most of us here lol) probably won't agree 100% with something Stephen Hawking says because he's not an authority figure for us, we don't think like theists - and even they don't all agree 100% with everything their holy books say.

    Bytheway, nice try refuting Hawking in a 4 minute video :)))

  • from the comments made here its clear you moral-lacking god-denying atheist believers in science completely misunderstand the actuality of the Universe. Firstly God (may his toenails always shine brightly) was not created but rather has always existed. Only things that were created need a creator, so is OBVIOUS that God, who was never created , did NOT have a creator.

    Then God made everything else, and because he OWNS everything anything he does is MORAL.

    bwahahahahhahahahaha - sorry 8|

  • @SqueakerAlpha Hahahahahaha, Ahahahahahaha. Now that's some funny isht right there folks.

  • so you dont understand the concept of quantum mechanics or string theory ?

    where did God come from ? 

  • "where did gravity come from?" well, where did God come from?

  • I trust Stephen Hawking more that I do some rabid bible basher on youtube kthxbye.

  • Science can and popably is wrong on most of things. For now I omit reason why.

    But here's the problem... there is more than one monotheistical religion. Sience being wrong doesn't make YOU right. It can make muslims right, or jews, or followers of flying spaghetti monster.

    Tell me why you and/or your religion are right.

  • CHRISTIANITY: Self-creating and tyrant god!

    there's plently of EVIDENCE (not suggestion) to imply how the universe was a completely scientifically independent occurence.

  • i love you...

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  • @GodLowDown You intentionally left out one glaringly obvious possibility, which is that the raw materials (energy) which make up our universe might have always existed in one form or another.

    I can't understand why you did not list an eternal universe as a third possibility, because that is exactly what you claim for your imaginary eternal uncreated creator.

    The 'law of gravity' isn't a 'thing' per se, it is merely a description of how 'things' interact with one another within space and time.

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  • Please don't confuse the atheist with the scientist. We are not all science-based atheists.

    If science is wrong, that does not mean that a myth is the answer.

    There are no gods, let's start there.

  • You've got to rely on the nonsensical idea that the God of the bible created itself.

    Note we can use the arguement the laws always existed if you say the god of bible always existed and use your own get out card.

    But seen as you ended the video mischaracterizing atheists and accusing them of all being liars about their intentions and reasons I'm clearly talking to some form of dishonest snake, so why should anything i say matter?

  • Kitchen sponge

  • Great video, 100% aggreement. For a natural world to have come about by natural means... guess what, WHERE THE HELL DID THE NATURAL MEANS COME FROM. Thats still doesn't explain how anything got here idiots, because how did the mechanism, whatever it might be come from nothing? Or did THAT always exist? hmmm.. makes perfect sense to say something like gravity always existed but god couldnt have... Well done dawkins, "who created God" you just proved you have the intellectual capacity of a-

  • Let me show me my NuclearPoweredFacepalmer it's completly safe except when it malfunctions

  • 2 + 2 = Jesus

  • Christianity: Self-Creating God?

  • @TotalWarDude100 pre-existing*

  • @0Maloy1

    What created god then?

  • @TotalWarDude100 Existed before time, doesn't require a creator.

  • @0Maloy1

    Any proof that god existed before time?

  • @TotalWarDude100 no, because that was before space as well(lack of matter in layman). Proof of him after the time begins.

    Trying to trace an event that humans are incapable of perceiving is quite hard, because we are only capable of perceiving things within space and time.

  • @0Maloy1

    So you claim blind faith as your proof?

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  • @TotalWarDude100 I'm sorry my original response was slightly rude so I removed and am reposting in a better way.

    My comment if read in full does not claim support for Blind Faith, I simply say that their is no way to find evidence of something that happened before space and time, but it also says their is some seen of his presence after time began.

    Again, I am sorry for my original rude response lol.

  • 1) matter is energy. 2) before anything existed, the law of gravity was a potential characteristic of matter. therefor it needn't "exist" (as u put it) before matter. SO when matter formed one of its characteristics was mass, thus gravity. 3) unknowns =/= the existence of one of your gods. 4) your rant at the end of this video about denial is very hypocritical. in fact it really just seemed to be a self diagnosis.

  • SEEMS SOMEONE IS RETARDED, AND DID NOT DO ANY RESARCH AT ALL.

    FIRST OF ALL.

    WE LIVE ON A MOTHERFUCKING PLANET THAT IS SOME 1^-10000000000000000 SIZE OF THE UNIVERSE

    YOU WANT US TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE UNIVERSE BEGAN?

    SECONDLY, YES I DO HAVE AN ANSWER.

    COLLIDING P-BRANES, DUMBFUCK WHO DID NOT DO ANY RESEARCH.

    SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO SOME RESARCH!

  • I'm done...good luck with your dishonesty!

    derp derp

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  • Your "observations" are simple and pathetic. Why does the universe exist? I DON'T FUCKING KNOW...<-----That is called honesty.

    You are a pathetic, disgusting, LIAR - looking for excuses to fit into your preconceived beliefs.

    Shut the fuck up until you have a good reason to believe in the SPECIFIC religion of christianity.

    Until you can prove your SPECIFIC god, go the fuck away. Prove Jebus, or GTFO...IDiot...

  • @Zentz29 Sans the aggression, you pose a fair argument...

  • @JMorde999 Yea, I don't really like that comment. I can be a real prick sometimes.

    I just can't stand when people try to explain a mystery with a mystery.

    I really wish I knew what it's like to be a deeply religious person. I can't understand why these people make this stuff up...

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  • 2) Thus, as an atheist, I'm certain YOUR god doesn't exist, but I don't have to rely on anybody's cosmology (which you misrepresented in the first place). Besides, cosmologists pursue understanding of the universe rather than make stuff up to avoid a bronze age god. Finally, I'm not mad at the god I don't believe in. Shall I argue that you merely pretend to believe because of the family and social pressure on you to comply with those you love?

  • 1) Let us say the Big Bang proves a creator. Okay, fine, that gives us an unknown deistic god that has not revealed itself. That creator is definitely not one of the ample theistic gods that man has created. At the moment it seems there's no way of knowing what it is, so why bother pursuing it when there are other things in which to take interest?

  • A little research goes a long way. You don't need a physics degree to read wikipedia. "the Big Bang theory depends on two major assumptions: the universality of physical laws, and the cosmological principle." Gravity is one of those laws under a simplification of relativity. Before trying to disprove a theory please understand the simplifying assumptions.

  • I think you are over analyzing the statement. The "law of gravity" is simply something that we use to explain the phenomena of gravity. So he is not saying that there were laws before the big bang, but the phenomena that the law explains did exist. If you just forget about trying to find the origin of everything, there is enough evidence to disprove your god. There could be a creator, but he would have no resemblance to your god other than the fact that he created everything.

  • I do agree some atheist just hate god or religion but some of us say we don't know what came before the big bang theory rather then say god did it. The big bang theory is the about how the universe started not about where all the energy came from.

  • Do you really want to take on Stephen Hawking on theoretical physics?

  • Ah... right,

    Must be "god" that self-created ...

    That explains everything....

    Praise be to the All Might Be Magic Man.

    Amd may the good Lawd shave your hole sufficiently for you to realise that the difference between a nun and a woman in a bath is that the nun has her soul full of hope,

  • The quantum vacuum is what physicists consider nothing. Gravity can come into being together with a virtual particle pair so even gravity need not pre-exist.

    Where gravity comes from is unknown but if things can exist without cause like you claim about God then a far simpler explanation in terms of uncaused causes is pre-existing gravity and quantum foam. God is the ultimate mind and minds are the most complex objects therefore God is the most complex and the least likely explanation possible.

  • We're not atheists because of science. We're atheists because of religion.

    How did Judas die?

    Matthew 27:5 - Judas kills himself by hanging

    Acts 1:18 - Judas falls to the ground, bursts open, and his guts spill out

    Mark, Luke, John - No mention of Judas killing himself

    If God can just exist without explanation then why not the laws of physics?

    Scientists are trying to find out the answers to this mystery by understanding our universe. Invoking God is just lazy thinking.

  • dammmmnnn you hit the nail on the head re: atheists' real motivation. Really enjoyed, thanks

  • Well, you seem to think atheism requires an ability to explain all that exists; It doesn't. When one doesn't know something, better to say, "I don't know" than "God did it.". It also doesn't have to explain all that which doesn't exist; that would be the province of faith.

  • You are right maybe I am defying the true god, Thor, I need to become a viking or I will not make it to Valhalla. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  • Well the use of the law is a human term. Let me ask you this, who thought of the law of momentum. NO ONE it is a principle that if an object is in motion it will remain in motion. If you stop the cause of the motion any unanchored object continue the motion. That law does not require a maker, because it is really a principal which we define with science term Law just a set of rules that arise through observable truth.

  • Um... is this a parody?

    

  • Excellent video.

  • Oh please...

    There is plenty of evidence to show that the Big Bang happened. The fact that we don't have all the answers yet as to why it happened is mostly due to the short time we have actively been looking for it - only 50 years or so. I'm sure we will get there in time.

    You on the other hand has had 2000 years to show us how your god supposedly makes matter out of nothing and you still haven't been able to reproduce it under laboratory conditions.

    We're at least trying.

  • ''In this comment I tackle the absurd notion that God created himself'' (with an epic guitar riff in the beginning, just to sound like an authentic guy).

  • "Real truth" will lead me where? I need help with this one. You and I can agree on many things in the natural world because we can experience it together and test it, taste it, see it, etc. We can agree on those truths we find in nature. But when we come to the supernatural (that which is outside of nature) we have a much harder time experiencing it together. So, please, help me understand how thinking objectively will help me find "real" truths. Thank you.

  • Why Atheists against Creationists is this a competition or a fight?

    I do not understand this, both do not know where we come from for sure, but we are making progress in science who is impartial, maybe science find out that there is a God who knows?

    Me Creationist you Atheist this is really a small way of thinking, we have all tiny brains that is why we still don’t know.

    And please do not compete with Stephen Hawking you make a fool of your self.

  • @OptiTexDynamicCloth Having a scapegoat is fun. Having an entire group of people you can mock and hate is A LOT of fun. Both fundamentalist theists and militant atheists realize this. It's fun to be part of a large group of people and mock and jeer at anybody who isn't in your little group. Just think back to the old 'No Girls Allowed' clubhouse of your youth.

  • @GodLowDown " Go where real truth leads you"

    We do. There is no evidence for the existence of god. We can only speculate what happened at the beginning of the universe, based on what we already know. As science develops, there is little doubt we will discover more and more. Throughout history people have just used 'god' as an all convenient explanation for things that haven't yet been explained, this is no different.

  • @GodLowDown,

    At 3:29, you said that the atheist paradigm is nothing more than rejection of God.

    Do you think it's because, at some point in their lives, something happened which made them "hate" God.. and ultimately, rejecting him?

  • He's trying to dispute a claim made by one of the most intelligent minds of our generation? Arrogance much?

  • There is an advanced physicist named Stan Deyo, he teaches that gravity is not a one way force but actually the result of two forces acting. these two forces consist of electricity & spin. Since electricity & the movement of spin can only come from the complexities of the universe (not before the existence of the universe), then for atheists to say that the universe came from gravity & gravity always existed without an external cause (God), then atheist's strongest argument is circular reasoning

  • I do not know how the universe started is a valid answer. Wanting to believe a particular story does not make it true. Hawking is talking in the context of quantum mechanics. Nothing is not really the nothing you seem the think he means. Maybe a better way of saying it would be the nothingness before the expansion is the reason for the universe. The big bang theory does not explain what started the universe any more than the theory of evolution explains the beginning of life.

  • How can you even think you can address this issue? NOBODY has the knowledge necessary to draw any conclusions on this subject. You can state what you believe all day long, but that does nothing for any of us who see your beliefs as unjustified.

  • Something had to exist prier to the universe in order to cause creation.

    In order to explain the creation of the universe, philosophical, presuppositions MUST be made.

    Theists presuppose that God was the cause of nature.

    Atheist presuppose that nature was the cause of nature.

    Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools that don't have enough courage to be honest. -Benjamin Franklin-

  • @HolyRevelation The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamin Franklin

  • @foxlake02 One kind of faith is blind, ie Atheism, another kind of faith is based on logic and intellectual reasoning, ie Christianity.

    1 Peter 3:15

    Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a REASON of the hope that is in you.

  • @HolyRevelation Atheism by definition is lack of faith.

  • @foxlake02 But it takes faith to believe that all of existence (with all its complexities consistant al this time, etc.) exists without a creator (God).

  • @starsheild7 It takes no faith to simply admit I do not know.

  • @foxlake02 But your heart says that salvation comes from the creator, you're so close, but the creator is unable to reach your heart if you don't try to open your heart. If only your heart weren't so hardened.

  • @starsheild7 Thanks for telling me what condition my heart is in. Reality is not determined by how much you want to believe it. I was a believer as a child. Then I grew up.

  • @foxlake02 I already know that reality is not determined by how much we "want" to believe it; that's not even the reason why I believe. Truth is not even determined to be real rather that truth itself reveals itself to us. It is not up to us to make truth exist, it is up to the truth itself to reveal itself to us. If truth is nothing but nature then it has revealed itself to us already, if the works of supreme creator is truth then the works of a supreme creator has already revealed itself to us

  • @starsheild7 Can you even fathom the possibility that it would be a lie if I was to say I believe in your particular version of God? When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

  • @foxlake02 I see the trinity's works more than the works of any other god. The only time I've seen the works of the "other gods" was in connection with the occult (like freemasonry for example). But I see the works of the trinity in history, nature, human nature, pain (trials) & joy (always ending in joy by the way), art, sports, literature,the news, etc. I see the works of the trinity more often & more effective than any other god.

    It's quite possible for you not to lie about believing in God.

  • @starsheild7 ummm your first post was that it takes faith to believe that all of existence exists without a creator. Then you made the judgment that there is something wrong with my heart. That works for children. It worked for me to the point that I was afraid to understand any science that contradicted the dogma I was being taught.

  • @foxlake02 But all the physics & biology is like the universe, they are not built to function without an intelligent, mind that has the power to keep such complexities consistent all this time, while trandsending the infinite regression problem, with the will to have our hearts subconsciously holding on to moral standard. Energy & matter is mechanically unable to do all of this without an eternal beginningless mind/ intent with the raw power to create it all. It is impossible without a "creator"

  • @starsheild7 Maybe, maybe not but how does any of this show evidence for your particular version of fairy tales? Assertions without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

  • @starsheild7 You can't logically say "maybe, maybe not" when it comes to something that accounts for the complex physics in nature with its sustained machinery behaving in the same way after all this time while defying the infinite regression problem with moral conscience existing inside of the universe (dominating over nature), even our "hearts" have the core feeling that a creator exists the same way we believe that blue is the color blue. With ALL of that you'd logically need to be a theist.

  • @starsheild7 This is nothing more than child abuse. Now that I am an adult, I can simply laugh at people like you and tell you to kindly fuck off. Once I started learning about biological evolution and physics, I found that not only did I accept it as legitimate explanations for reality, but that it was far more interesting than fairy tails I was taught as a child.

  • @foxlake02 Just because you're an adult doesn't mean that truth itself can't even reveal itself to you, especually if the truth does have a mind & will for everything. Just because you are an adult doesn't mean you have to depend completly on yourself to find reality/ truth. If Jesus is right then the trinity's works will find us (rather than us finding it), Jesus explained that the workings of the Holy spirit is like the wind when it blows the trees, imagine if this reality is like the "trees".

  • @starsheild7 I have watched my granddaughter's eyes light up when she learns something new about how life or the cosmos works. I still remember fundamentalists stopping the schools I went to from hardly mentioning biological evolution or anything else deemed not in accordance with interpretation of scripture. I was made to feel bad for my own curiosity about nature. This is not of any God. It is nothing more than sick minds and dirty politics.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "I was made to feel bad for my own curiosity about nature. This is not of any God. It is nothing more than sick minds & dirty politics"

    -When I asked questions about God my (christian) family was nice to me about it & told me that we would find out the answers together & that God would reveal the anwers too; if any "churchy" made you feel bad then they should know that bible scripture already explains that every believer is suppose to be gentle when preaching (not mean).

  • @foxlake02 You said, "I was made to feel bad for my own curiosity about nature. This is not of any God. It is nothing more than sick minds & dirty politics"

    -When I asked questions about God my (christian) family was nice to me about it & told me that we would find out the answers together & that God would reveal the anwers too; if any "churchy" made you feel bad then they should know that bible scripture already explains that every believer is suppose to be gentle when preaching (not mean).

  • @starsheild7 Has nothing to do with people being mean. It's a constant barrage of indoctrination that is almost child abuse. When I started understanding how life and the cosmos really worked I remember being excited and full of wonder. The attitude was be carful what you believe. All I needed to know was in the Bible. I spent years being afraid to understand biology or watch people like Carl Sagan. Evolution was removed as study in my school. This is dark ages thinking and can not be of a God.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "It's a constant barrage of indoctrination that is almost child abuse".

    -I guess I never experienced what you've been through before (I only went to secular schools).

    You said, "When I started understanding how life & the cosmos really worked I remember being excited & full of wonder".

    -Interesting because when I too learned about how the universe really worked I felt like God was even more exciting & wonderous to me.

  • @starsheild7 "I felt like God was even more exciting & wondrous to me" That's great. So why do fundamentalists try to outlaw certain theories being taught in our schools? I went to secular schools too but I only remember ToE being mentioned one time in one biology class. The church and Sunday schools would always warn us not to pay attention to what our science teachers taught us if it conflicted with their dogma. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" was drilled into us.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "So why do fundamentalists try to outlaw certain theories being taught in our schools?"

    -I can only guess that they outlaw them because they are whole heartedly convinced that the accounts in the bible are true & that they fear that impressional minds are not as morally convinced of God as they are & so they see it as their moral duty to keep impressional minds from it until they are morally old enough to face it I guess, even though moral conviction makes us believe anyway

  • @starsheild7 "they outlaw them because they are whole heartedly convinced that the accounts in the bible are true" Dark ages thinking. "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Dark ages thinking, 'I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, & intelligect has intended us to forgo their use' - Galileo Galilei".

    -God does not make us forgo those qualities, those qualities reveal God & improve life (as gifts from God should do). "I believe Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but by it I see everything else." - C. S. Lewis.

    PS. Galileo was for God, not against him.

  • @starsheild7 "Galileo was for God, not against him"

    That is my point.

  • @foxlake02 -Correction, I DID NOT liston to "Answers in Genesis", nor the "Creation institute". My apologies, I made a typo.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "I went to secular schools too but I only remember ToE being mentioned one time in one biology class"

    -My schools would assume the theory of evolution like they were breathing it, whenever I asked any simple questions about it they did not have an answer & they would insist that I should trust it completley, & everything that was not a theory in school actually helped show evidence for intelligent design as the more effective answer rather than randomness being the answer.

  • @starsheild7 Sounds like your teachers were as unqualified as mine. Why didn't you do your own research instead of assuming the answers are not there. A lot more in understood about life than you are willing to admit. Evolution is expressly NOT randomness. Stop listening to what people like Answers in Genesis or the Creation Institute tell you about what the theory says. They are lying to you. "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." - Theodosius Dobzhansky

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Sounds like your teachers were as unqulified as mine. Why didn't you do your own research instead of assuming the answers are not there"

    -But I did do my own research, not only did I asked questions, I also studied to find the answers to my questions, & the answers show that the modern theory of evolution is mechanically disfunctional in the biological world. I wasn't going to assume that the theory was fact without data from function & application

  • @starsheild7 Again, you show your ignorance on the subject. No theory in science is fact and never will be. Theories explain facts and evidence. Explain the double nested hierarchy of life using the creation story.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Again, you show your ignorance on the subject. No theory in science is fact & never will be."

    -That's what I believe, & that is what I just explained to you

    You said, "Theories explain facts & evidence"

    -You're telling me that facts don't explain anything at all?

    -You can't sell a product on theories, it would be an insult to engineering, engineering is required to be backed up with facts or else the machine will not be used; you need data/ function, not transparentness

  • @starsheild7 OMG Gould was right. All you people are good at is playing word games. Yes no theory in science will ever be fact. Not even the theory of gravity. You know what? It even has some problems but gravity still exists just as evolution exists and is observed all over the world. Look up Ring Species. Still waiting for you to explain the double nested hierarchy of life with the creation story.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "OMG Gould [?] was right. All you people are good at is playing word games. Yes no theory in science will ever be fact. Not even the theory o gravity".

    -Is explaining things in a straight foward manner (in a debate) considered word games to you? I call something a fact because it is supported by function & application, it also reveals them; gravity is supported by function & appliation (it even reveals function/ application) the modern theory of evolution is not & does not.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "You know what? It even has some problems but gravity still exists just as evolution exists & is observed all over the world"

    -We see colors change in animals but we don't ever see a change in actual DNA code & RNA actually producing any useful biological feature, we ONLY see disease being produced by a change in DNA code & RNA, & since every biological feature is built by DNA code & RNA, then it takes a change in DNA code/ RNA for chimp/ ape like anestors to become human.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Still waiting for you to explain the double nested higherarchy of life with the creation story"

    -Well in medicine, all dieases come from mutation inf the DNA code/ RNA, white blood cells are built to destroy all diseases when they are at full strength/ health (with all its proper genes), there are a number of people who always had a "complete" immune system, this is why people with a lack of health have virus epidemic stories; due to tradition our immunity is incomplete.

  • @foxlake02 To continue, I will explain that since our immune system & genes are incomplete here in America & England due to tradition (maybe Africa & China due to lack of vitamins from oppressive governments) & since there are a number of people with an immunity to ALL diseases (including tumors & AIDS) due to a different tradition/ lifestyle (while ALL their inherite genes) the function & application of the body logically & rashionally shows that the first humans were built & were made complete

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Evolution is expressly NOT randomness. Stop listening to what people like 'Answers in Genesis' or the 'Creation Institute' tell you about what the theory says"

    -Actually I liston to "Answer in Genesis", nor the "Creation Institute", I learned from textbook quotes on the internet & actually learned the function of biology & the rest of nature; according to the function & mechanics of nature itself, the theory of evolution is disfunctional in the mechanics of biology.

  • @starsheild7 I knew what you meant. "I learned from textbook quotes on the internet"

    I rest my case. Research is lot more than a few textbook quotes on the internet. Anyone can feed there confirmation bias like that. Read some books and articles from real paleontologists like Stephen J Gould or Neil Shubin. Go to lectures that are open to the public. Check out the natural History museums in your area. Maybe even take some courses on the subject but don't tell me you understand the subject well.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "I rest my case. Research is a lot more than a few textbook quotes on the internet"

    -Who said I only read a "few" text book quotes; yes they were quotes (the computer is literally a box with no paper books if that is what you mean by quotes alone) but if you were to add all that I read on the internet all together it would add up to the entirety of a number of full text books read from cover to cover; you misunderstood me.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "Evolution is expressly NOT randomness"

    -Yes I know what they are saying that "evolution is not randomn, it is the relationship between mutation & natural selection in certain environments to ensure survival" etc etc, but when you take that into face value mechanically in nature, you learn that the modern theory explains that nature is one randomn event interacting with another & biology is a result reacting off of it; one randomn act interacting with another IS RANDOMNESS.

  • @starsheild7 Nor at all. That's like saying jumping off a building made someone fall on a random pedestrian. True, he didn't predict it but the force of gravity is still a natural force just as all life wants to survive and reproduce more than it's environment will allow. You seem to think the theory is saying our species was a goal of evolution. It was not. Neanderthal or another hominid species may have survived instead of us and then they would be asking the same questions.

  • @foxlake02 You said, "That's like saying jumping off a building made someone fall on a random pedestrian"

    -"Jumping" off a building is choice, choice is intelligence by some level, choice is not like the randomnes of nature that biology reacts from; You are saying that the "jumping" is like the random nature while "landing on a pedestrian" is like the reaction of biology, explain how that analogy of yours proves a nonrandom universe; reaction to random nature is still random. Try to refute that

  • @starsheild7 Okay fall of a building. He fell because he was drunk and stupid. Go warp that analogy to prove God did it. My point is that you seem to think it was all planned for us being exactly as we are. There is no evidence for that assertion. The laws of nature are what created us and if you want to say God made the laws that's fine by me but don't try to distort science in the classroom to match your particular version of dogma.

  • @starsheild7 Okay fall of a building. He fell because he was drunk and stupid. Go warp that analogy to prove God did it. My point is that you seem to think it was all planned for us being exactly as we are. There is no evidence for that assertion. The laws of nature are what created us and if you want to say God made the laws that's fine by me but don't try to distort science in the classroom to match your particular version of dogma.