Stein's comment is a perfect example of the self-refuting nature of Intelligent Design. Complexity requires a designer. A designer is complex. Therefore the designer requires a designer. Therefore the designer of the designer requires a designer. Therefore the designer of the designer of the designer requires a designer. Therefore... god done did it.
The bible is in essence a fraud anyway. God is not anywhere in the bible time except for that it is only a believe but not a reality as such, not in the way religion portraits a God anyway. So the ten commandments were NOT given to Moses by God at all, was someone else on the mountain, a normal human. Jesus was never on the cross. Gospels are faked !
lol@inthepurelight. I'm sorry but I cannot help myself to just laugh at your comment. You are making the assumption that the thing you believe in will be proven at some point. Spiritual beings in eternal creation, really? You reek of creationism. And ofcourse, as aknowledged by tingtangs, it's just plain stupid to say you don't need proof. You're basically saying: I believe in something and I just know it's true so don't bother with all those evidence thingies. The definition of ignorance
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
the spiritual free thinking man will always be ahead of the atheist, because he has faith to see a thing before it's proven. Spiritual men will always outnumber atheists because we are spiritual beings, in eternal creation. I have no need to offer proof,waiting for proof is living in stunted ignorance.
@inthepurelight I have no argument with science , and for the record aronRa is one of the most honest atheist and 95% right......(don't Quibble over hypothetical percentages )
@tingtangs far from it ,love science in it's pure and intended form, where ego's and politics don't inhibit free thought. science in this day and age is about 50 years behind where it should be because of those factors.At no time did I espouse a dogma invoke a "God" or in any way denigrate science I simply asserted that in my belief man is a spiritual entity and to connect with that reality put's you in a higher state of consciousness.,with scientific reason exceeds single dimensional atheism
@inthepurelight hahahaha my brother, if it weren't for men who didn't really on things waiting for proof, we would not be very far in the world today. you wouldn't even be typing on this computer right now if it weren't for those who dedicated there lives to science. when has religion ever done something so progressive?
@TheRationalist76 that's the point I made,however I said nothing about religion, so what's religion got to do with anything I said? Is steve Jobs atheist?
@inthepurelight Yes, but Buddhism at least uses reason. It understands that science and observation are the key to comprehending and explaining this Universe. It does not simply use "faith before it's proven". Steve Jobs had a vision, and used science to accomplish that vision. Yet simple faith that something is going to happen does not mean it will happen, action is key. Action is what causes things to happen, not faith. You cannot simply hope something is true, and believe it will be proven
@inthepurelight Spiritualists and the Religious are not so different. They both hold faith in something and do not see with reason. Both are guilty of the same crimes. If you were not speaking of religion, and more so spiritualism, i will not hold you any higher, nor is my argument flawed
@tingtangs You seem like a very enlightened being,one who's capacity for higher level thought has enabled you to state your case quite eloquently , and mine as well, may William whewell bless you:)
@inthepurelight O.K." waiting for proof is living in stunted ignorance" I received a telepathic message from god who says that if you don't strip naked right now and cover yourself in caramel jello-pudding while streaking your local mall, the earth is going to be demolished by an asteroid. You had better not wait for proof, because that would make you look stupid!
There is in this universe much of what appears to be designed, but instead we repeatedly that natural processes , collisional selections of worlds, or natural selection of gene pools, or even the convection pattern of a pot of boiling water, can extract order out of chaos., and deceive us to deducing purpose where there is none, the significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. ~Carl Sagan~
A nice example of how ALL such creationist positions rest on argument from ignorance: "We can't understand how it could come about naturally, therefore it must have come about supernaturally." And of course, THAT is nothing than "god of the gaps": We can't figure out a natural process for this, so a supernatural process "fits well" here.
If Ben Stein is the product of ID then I am even further away from beliving than I have ever been. A perfect ever loving God that designed everything in the universe desighned him ........Well he screwed up big time... There is no God..!!!!!!!!!
Ben Stein's voice is SO ANNOYING. He was great in Ferris Bueller's Day Off as an annoying teacher who puts you to sleep. Now that he is trying to act intelligent-- his foolisheness shines through!
It is logically/syllogistically unsound to use natural selection as evidence against a divine creator. Darwin never did. He only refuted the literal interpretation of the Bible. While he saw monstrous inequity and immorality in nature (insects paralyzing other insects to make them living hosts of their eggs, things like that), he did not believe this was conclusive. To conclude that a creator (rightly or wrongly) was not a part of evolution for Darwin was outside the scope of his theory.
I think the bible is one of the worst things to ever influence human society. It frowned upon free thinking, individuality, and had an inhumane view towards women. I'll admit there are some good parts where proper morality is encouraged but no one ever actually followed through on it. It's done much more harm then good and it's given people a scapegoat. It's sad when a holy book can be used as a shield for your hatred and ignorance of others.
@Honaro2nd Read it again, it advocates a solid moral framework within the personal sphere, thus preserving the value of the individual rather than imposing a mere set of secular Laws to be followed under threat of death. And inhumane toward women? explain (if you can).
You've decided that living according to christian principles doesn't suit you and have allowed that to taint your view of the book. So, what alternative do you suggest? think very carefully on that question, its a biggie.
@foolioay It's a Christian principle to stone unruly or disobedient children to death. In the Bible, God also advocates slavery. Why have we ignored these examples of Christian "morality" while making other examples law? Even if the Bible is the word of God, Christians have cherry-picked from it, informed by their OWN inate sense of right and wrong. Christians don't stone unruly children to death because it's abhorrant to them, even though it is the will of God, according to the Bible
@parlezuml "It's a Christian principle to stone unruly or disobendient children to death..."? Really? I think you're talking about the Old Testament of the Bible. There were no christians at that time yet. There wer hebrews and they were under the law. Harsh, I agree. I have never heard of a christian parent stoning their disobedient children ever. Christ Himself did not let the woman caught in adultery to get stoned. "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."
idk how anyone can go through life without knowing why there on this earth and what will happen when you die.. the only reason i doubt my religion is because why God hasnt ended this evil fucked country AMERICA which was founded by GOD
yeah we don't have evidence for intelligant design besides the complexity of the human body. We do have tons of evidence for the bible that for some wierd reason, atheists are having a real hard time disproving. isn't that wierd?!?!??! i mean come on its a book made by people who were about half as intellegent as we are today and for some reason, it can't be disproven!
@nerdized Which aspects specifically come to mind for you? Many aspects of the bible have been disproved at various times throughout history. They are simply no longer taken literally. Of the evidence you allude to, how much of it is reliant on the existence of a god? The resurrection comes to mind for me, but can any strong evidence for these aspects be demonstrated?
The abysmal understanding of science in this country saddens me. There are many things I don't know so guess what I do.....I research. If you haven't done any real research into topics of cosmology or evolution, not just what the bible or church tells you, or what you've gathered from what you've heard please don't add your two cents into the topic. It's like walking in half way through the movie and thinking you know the whole plot.
you people hate god and that fine but a magical soup turning into everything and a mystic explosion that makes matter appear sounds just as retarded. scientific fact is we don't know will never know and theory of our origins are just that alone ..its just good story telling like any cartoon.
@PlanetHenry how can we hate something we don't believe exists? magical soup? you don't wait long to expose how little you know about abiogenesis, if anything at all. there is nothing magical about different molecules conforming to physics. every time i think of creation 'science', i can't help but be overwhelmed by the mental image of a bearded man, nodding along to the i dream of jeannie theme song and creating dogs and toasters and palm trees. how can you say 'we will never know'?
hey some people believe in a giant explosion that makes land masses and planets some believe in aliens and as i stated its all just good story telling. big bang lol when scienetist make rockets that build land masses i will see it as tested and proven till then another theory
@PlanetHenry no, no one 'believes' that. that is what we currently know about the evidence we have. the universe is expanding from a finite point and that is not debatable. aliens are however, something you 'believe in' seeing as there is no evidence to back them up. what the hell do rockets have anything to do with this conversation?
@holdenbane science is about testing and proving and the big ban theory of explosions making matter would mean a rocket that explodes into islands should be possible....i re.read what i typed i mean i think it was pretty clear the first time round...
@elgostine a little more complex than that.... but if you say so i'm in.... (lets not listen to mans opinions as they will change, but rather God's opinions, which are found in the Bible, where we have answers to lifes questions.
Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm not used to this new and (not) improved YouTube™ Text Comments thing. I'm used to the Edit box CLOSING when I submit a post. :-(
Wow....you have to be kidding. You aren't capable of performing a simple analysis (a third grader could do). The answers are in my comments. Anyhow, arguing with the religiously motivated has always been an exercise in severe futility. Which is exactly what this is so....never mind.
@Houshalter According to you, Christians keep to themselves and aren't compelled to spread their beliefs. Yet, the Christian right is one of the biggest donors of campaign funds in this country, only the insurance corporations contribute more. Hmmm..wonder why they're so power hungry?
@Houshalter, wrong again. Many Christian organizations explicitly encourage their members to donate to specific political parties and candidates. To avoid losing tax-exempt status for churches, they have to form PACs to do that (e.g. Focus on the Family, etc.), but that doesn't change the fact that they do it.
There are major Christian movements whose express WRITTEN goal is to TAKE OVER and RULE THE WORLD, *POLITICALLY* (not just spiritually), in the name of Jesus, starting with the USA.
@Houshalter, I never said that it was. It is, however, the goal of the MOVERS & SHAKERS *BEHIND* the right-wing Christian movements. It's the goal of Mike Huckabee (who co-authored a book with Dr. George Grant [founder of Coral Ridge Ministries], who emphasized in print that their goal is "World domination."), Sarah Palin (the movement she's in goes way further than that), David Barton and his Wallbuilders, Inc., Kent Hovind, Ken Hamm, The Discovery Institute, Answers in Genesis, etc.
@COMALiteJ, There are no "shakers" any more. Other than that, I'm not a creationist and don't agree with their policies, so don't try to throw this crap at me.
@Houshalter How do you explain the Faith Based Innitiatives? Also,The Public Expressions of Religion Act (H.R. 2679) which is a blatant violation of church and state BTW. What about creationism being pushed on our kids in schools. Yet you claim Christians keep their ideology to themselves and don't get involved in politics. If I ever get as obtuse as you, I'll hang myself LOL. Funny how an atheist had to teach you things should have already known.
Our bodies are made from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7 & 3:19). Researchers at NASA's Ames Research Center confirmed that every element in Humans can be found in the soil. Scientist have discovered that the Human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements- ALL of which are found in the dust of the ground.-
@spiderpig85 No in general Christians usually just say what they believe. This is not pushing your beliefs on others. I have looked on the at religious comments for a while and I have only seen a handful of Christians do what you say. I have however seen the majority of atheist's push their nonbeliefs on others. I don't know maybe it is just me.
Missionaries? Evangelical commercials? Latter Day saints commercials? Are you joking when you say Christians don't push their beliefs?
What do you call going to an area where they haven't ever seen white people and giving them bibles and telling them that unless they pray to god, they will go to hell and suffer forever?
Get off your high horse and realize that these Christians are VERY unchristlike...
I was talking about on the internet. On the internet it would seem the atheist's are a minority, but definately yell the loudest. And when they do yell it is usually unpleasant things that is much worse than pushing nonbeliefs.
Because religion is just plain un-healthy for a persons mind. Through atheism we can really push forward as a human race, where religion is just hindering us.
@ sh4rpsh0t33 as opposed to a stance that holds us back? i'll take a nothing stance meaning i'm free to live whatever kind of life i want than a restrictive one
Pushing something suggests proselytizing. Atheists don't go around starting up churches trying to convert the masses. If anything it's the opposite. they seek to distance themselves from religion. You'd better work on those observational skills.
@handsomedevill1001 Seek to distance themselves from religion? Then how come most religion videos on youtube are from atheist's? How come most religious meme's are made from atheist's?
Starting a church is a way for everyone who loves god to be able to join together and worship. No one pushes anyone to go it is their own choice.
What kind of a Christian are you? According to every Christian I've encountered, you are ordered, by biblical mandate, to go out and spread the word and CONVERT non believers. That means imposing your beliefs on others. If you see a lot of atheist vids its because they're merely responding to Christian imposition and arrogance. LOL..like I said, work on those observational skills. Either you are faking ignorance or truly are ignorant.
I highly doubt any Christian that you encountered ever said they are ordered to spread anything, or you simply misunderstood. And the fact you think anyone is ordered to convert others is laughable. You are not ordered to do anything by the Bible. They may spread the word of God as information, but in know way is that what this argument was about. It was about harking your stance as superior in unpleasant rhetoric.
Well that's not how your Christian brothers from other denominations feel. Or were you not aware that there are other Christian churches with different biblical interpretations than that of your church? Are you naive enough to think that the way your church interprets scripture is the set standard for all Christian churches? Christians do proselytize and are compelled by the Bible to do so. Mathew 28:19. How ironic that a secularist had to teach you somehting you should have already known.
"Atheists don't go around starting up churches trying to convert the masses."
1: Churches are for people that have already been converted.
2: Atheists have organizations that are essentially the equivalent of churches.
3: Most christians don't even bring up relegion unless they have to. They're fine with others believing what they want. Atheists barge in all over the place. The other day an atheist group was trading in bibles for porn at a college. WTF!
@Houshalter You need to read ALL of my comments. I made myself quite clear and I'm fairly certain my previous comments cover all 3 of your points. To reply again would be redundant and a waste of our time. As far as porn for Bibles goes. Yes it sounds disrespectful, but that pales in comparison to the pain, suffering, and slaughter brought on by religion and religiously deluded people. You are living proof of how f****d up priorities can get under the influence of religion
It's also quite funny that Atheists like to talk about the atrocities that "individuals" have created or cause and tie the cause to their religion as a whole, but when you bring up Stalin and Zedong, they say you can't say that descirbes Atheism as whole, but they're more than willing to do it to the likes of Hitler or other radicals. It's quite a double standard and "one" of the reasons I abandoned that ignorant side of the chalk.
@DandBMonk Do you really believe that if Stalin and Zedong had been brought up on Christian values that this would have precluded them from commiting the crimes that they did? I find it interesting that nearly all of the prison population in the U.S. claims a Catholic or Chrisitain upbringing. It's the same for 99% of all the people on death row. Take a minute to think before you decide which side of that chalk is ignorant.
@handsomedevill1001, the statistics about crime rates v religion are extrordinarily inaccurate for a bunch of reasons. For one, crime is attributed to a bunch of social factors, like poverty, that just happen to be more conservative, hence christian. Also note that people in prisons have a phycological "desire" to want a God that would forgive them. Also note factors like prisons having churches, people not wanting to stand out from the crowd, etc. Besides, where are these stats from?
@Houshalter "Crime is attributed to a bunch of social factors." No duhh! You're missing the point. Blacks and Latinos make up the majority and whites the minority in U.S. prisons. Blks and Ltns are born into VERY religious cultures. They don't convert to God in prisn they reaffirm what they were to begin with. They were all born and raised Baptist, Catholic or Christian. Almost 80% of the prison pop. was religious before they went in. Why don't you look this up for yourself?
@nosajj12345, but you are assuming that there is a correlation between the two. There is not. Crime statistics are a very well studied area and there are many factors that contribute, but religion doesn't happen to be one of them.
Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds. The last time religion ruled the western world, the result was the Dark Ages. For a thousand years we allowed magical thinking to retard the advancement of knowledge, and the progress of humanity.
Ignorance and superstition lurk at the fringes of our society.
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions"
@4me2cclearly, I don't know what religion your talking about. Even making the assumption that such a awful, powerful religion exists, then why should you care? If your an atheist, then there is no morals.
"Atheism leads a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation: all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue...""What you should say to outsiders is that a Christian has neither more nor less rights in our Association than an atheist. When our platform becomes too narrow for people of all creeds and of no creeds, I myself shall not stand upon it." Susan B. Anthony "
@Houshalter, "If your an atheist, then there is no morals. "
No. That does not follow. Atheism is merely the lack of any belief in any god(s), and has nothing to do with morals, either the presence nor absence thereof. Many atheists are moral people, and many theists are amoral or downright immoral (e.g. Joseph Kony and his Christian organization "Lord's Resistance Army" [LRA] that wreaked unimaginable atrocities in northern Uganda in recent years).
@COMALiteJ, I think you find that for one, there is no KNOWN correlation between religion and morality, but I think if you look at the grand scheme of things, atheists are more likely to be "immoral".
This video sums up the problem of atheistic morals perfectly:
@Houshalter, no, that video sums up how to make several logical fallacies perfectly (multiple strawmen, Argument from Personal Incredulity / God of the Gaps, False Dichotomy, and many more).
@Houshalter, calling me a liar? I debate you with respect, and do not call you or anyone else a liar unless I have proof not only of a false statement, but of WILLFUL and MALICIOUS INTENT TO DECEIVE by KNOWINGLY making a false statement.
Yes, I watched the video all the way through, a few minutes ago. I even posted a comment to its author (same basic stuff I said here in more detail), though since it's set to "Comment Pending Approval," I don't know when (or if) it'll show up.
• Strawmen — assigning to ones opponent a position that the opponent does NOT actually hold, then debating against that position. Example: saying that morals "must be" programmed into us by evolution. No. Were that the case, then morals would be universal among mankind. They are not. Morals derive from culture.
• Personal Incredulity / God of the Gaps: Several times he says that if the strawman can't explain morals, then GODDIDIT.
• False Dichotomy — from what I can tell (I havent watched them all yet), most of his videos center around this. "If I prove atheism false, then that proves that MY god TRUE!!" No. There have been hundreds of thousands of gods worshipped. EVEN IF morals had to come from a god, that does NOT provide even ONE IOTA of support to the idea that it was YHWH God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It could be Zeus or Odin or Krishna or Quetzalcoatl. Or maybe one NOBODY ever HEARD of, nor worshiped.
EVEN IF he could prove CHRISTIANITY true, well, there have been at least 33,000 variants (denominations, sects, cults, subdenominations, etc.) of CHRISTIANITY *ALONE* to date. Nearly all of them claim to follow the Bible, but all have different beliefs. At least ½ of them claim to be the ONLY TRUE Christianity, and most of those believe that if you believe in the "wrong" Christianity, you're JUST AS DAMNED as an atheist or idolator!
@COMALiteJ, Maybe, but as I said, the video was not meant to prove that God exists. Maybe your right and the flying spagghetti monster did it but that still means that atheists are wrong.
@Houshalter, given that his intent was "... to throw a wrench at atheism," well, he missed. By a long shot.
A truly moral person does the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing, with NO expectation of nor even hope for reward of ANY kind. Expecting salvation, or crowns of glory, a better mansion in Jesus's Father's House, or whatever in the afterlife does NOT qualify. Ditto Karma or any other mystical scheme of reward/punishment.
@COMALiteJ, So thats how you do things for other people, because you have a random feeling to do it. But what if someone did something amoral to you? You can't blame them for not following your set of morals.
@Houshalter, no, you miss my point. I do not claim to be a truly altruistically moral person by that definition. I actually don't believe that such a person exists, in or out of religion, whether theist or atheist. Even doing it because it gives you warm fuzzy feelings, or boosts your self-esteem, is still a reward. Even doing it because it assuages your conscience is still a reward.
Other than the truly insane, every decision that any rational person makes is based on economics of some type.
How does the word "right" compute? Where did your "right" come from? Is it possible that your "right" might be my "wrong"? Some humans think it is "right" to rape and kill. Who decides?
@flashgm41, I'm not sure which of my posts that was in Reply to, but I guess it's the one where I said that a truly moral person would do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing. You ask who decides what is "right"?
Answer: sociological influences. Each society lays down rules for its participants, to facilitate the continued functioning of the society. Without these rules and general agreement to follow them, the society cannot effectively function.
@Houshalter, there IS a correlation between religion and morality — just not the way you want.
`I think if you look at the grand scheme of things, atheists are more likely to be "immoral".'
Were that true, then the percentage of atheists in prison would be greater than in the general population. The 180° DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE is in fact the case. And we're not talking about people who "find religion" IN prison. These statistics are about what they WERE, WHEN THEY COMMITTED THE CRIMES!
@COMALiteJ, but your assuming there is a correlation, not an influence from other factors. People who are more likely to commit crimes are more likely to do so from other factors. Eg; poor people are more likely to commit crimes, and poor people are more likley to be religious. Just one example.
@Houshalter, look up "correlation" in a dictionary. Yes, there is a correlation. That is hard statistical fact. What is debatable is the MEANING of the correlation, as well as the cause of it (if any). As you say, poverty may be a factor in both crime and religion. Ditto, lack of education (which itself correlates with poverty).
But the fact remains: atheists are underrepresented in prison. This is statistical fact, and IS a correlation BY DEFINITION.
Is that your excuse or defense of Atheism? Yes, I whole-heartedly believe if Stalin had any religious values that wouldn't have occurred! You should really read up on what he did...slaughtered religious peoples, for the benefit of the state! Yes...Atheism "can" be a very evil influence friend.
@DandBMonk You approach this from an emotional standpoint rather than a logical one. You emphatically insist that if Stalin had been a Christian everything would have been hunky dory. Ok....then what about all of those kings, popes and churches who ordered or directly participated in mass murder throughout history? These people were baptized, indoctrinated, sworn to obey the Ten Commandments, yet they still killed, didn't they. I don't need to read up, YOU DO!
LOL! Why is it that Atheists are always angry? That's something I wondered when I was one too...it was trying to convince those with the answers that my questions were better answers. That's "witnessing" for Atheists...in case you lifelong Christians don't know that. I'm sorry, but that's the problem...it's okay for Atheists to lump all Christians together for what a couple of idiots did, but it's a double standard when it comes to Atheists committing atrocities, huh?
@DandBMonk "WHAT A COUPLE OF IDIOTS DID?".... You are unbelievable. LOL...oh my goodness. So you ascribe all the religiously inspired attrocities, that make up a good portion of human history, to the actions of "a couple of idiots?" Again, you serve as an example of the arrogance and the ignorance that pervades and deludes the opinions of the religiously motivated. And the scripture quote LOL..oh so typical.
Are "you" kidding me? Two Atheists murder more people in sixty years...SIXTY, than all these HUNDREDS, EVEN THOUSANDS of years of religious wars, and that's all you can say? We're talking about two Atheists...just two! You can't "show" the Truth to a blind one...they can hear it, but they just can't see it. That's a shame.
God gave you a choice. You believe that the clashing of atoms and numerous chemical reactions created your mind and you "dance to your dna" or are programmed...I believe God gave us freewill.
"When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all."--C.S. Lewis
Stalin and Zedong killed more people in a span 60 years combined, than "all" the religious wars ever fought! They killed over 100 million people! I need to read up? Really?
As long as Atheists continue to connect the ignorance of "some" Christians to all of them...I will continue to do the same to Atheists. It's the Atheist ideas of Stalin and Zedong that caused the deaths of these people...does that reflect you and your attitude? If not, then why should the ignorance of "some" reflect Jesus? What Jesus said and what some idiots do is two completely different things.
@DandBMonk, no, Stalin and Zedong (and Pot for that matter) were not atheists. They created CULTS of Personality centered around themselves. ALL cults are, BY DEFINITION, *RELIGIONS*.
Furthermore, they also declared the State the "god." ANY belief in ANY god(s) is, BY DEFINITION, *NOT* ATHEIST.
And even discounting all that, NONE of them did their massacres in the NAME OF atheism. The Inquisitions, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc. were ALL done in the NAME OF Christianity.
Wow...you even try to explain them away? LOL! It's a lot more honorable to take it on the chin then lie, or perhaps you're just ignorant of that which you speak. You've opened your mouth about something which you know not. That's farrr more ignorant than knowing and misquoting. I've provided the History lesson, and it's obvious you failed. Yes...they were Atheist. Stalin persecuted the religious.
@DandBMonk, I wasn't lying. I posted the same thing multiple times because I thought the new "Post" button wasn't working, so I clicked it multiple times. Why would I lie about something like that? I deleted the duplicates, but theyre still showing as "Comment removed." I apologized for that in good faith.
As for knowing what I'm talking about: "a-theist." From the Greek: "theist" meaning "believer in (a) god(s)." The "a-" prefix simply means "not." "A-theist" means "not a theist."
It's even absurd that you're trying to explain it away by, basically, saying that any belief system is a religion. LOL! You're lumping in Stalin's A-theism into a religion, because it's centered on himself? THAT'S WHAT ATHEISM IS!!! A belief thta nothing's higher than you...it's quite self centered to believe that you're in control of everything...as Stalin did. Sorry to embarrass you, but only ignorant statements you speak!
" THAT'S WHAT ATHEISM IS!!! A belief thta nothing's higher than you"
Wrong. Atheism is the LACK OF belief in any gods. Nothing more, nothing less.
Even by YOUR (false) definition, though, Stalin himself may have been atheist, but he was imposing a CULT of PERSONALITY on the Soviet populace, from the Kremlin down to the lowest of the low. ALL of THEM were NOT to believe that nothing was higher than THEM. They were to believe that nothing was higher than the STATE, or STALIN HIMSELF.
Thus, the State itself became their God, with Stalin as the embodiment of their God. That is NOT ATHEISM. PERIOD. ANY belief in ANY god(s) of ANY KIND is, BY DEFINITION, **NOT** ATHEISM.
"Atheism" is to "theism" as "apolitical" is to "political," "asymmetric" is to "symmetric," "asexual" is to "sexual," and so on, and so on, and so on.
Atheism is the COMPLETE AND TOTAL ABSENCE of ANY belief in, let alone worship of, ANY SORT of god(s). Even oneself.
@Houshalter, atheism is only a religion in the same exact sense that "completely bald" is a hair color, or "an unopened ream of completely blank inkjet printer paper" is a work of literature.
"On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Crusades? Inquistion? Salem Witch Trials?
It's not Jesus fault they strayed from what He said, but He knew it would happen.
@DandBMonk Point being, If faith in Christ wasn't enough to keep Christians from killing each other and those of other faiths (in the name of God LOL ) how would belief in Christ have kept Stalin from ordering his attrocities. Had you thought this through you wouldn't have posted a reply.
@DandBMonk You are living proof of how religion blurs logic in favor of irrational, dumb, emotionally based responses. That is the track record and legacy of religion. Thanks to boneheads like you, the world must continue to suffer it.
Anyone who is slightly more intelligent than you could tell you that nothing is proven, it is only NOT disproven. You must exhaust all other options of God's "unexistence" before you can claim that he truly DOES exist. Maybe instead of calling people losers and white trash, you should think about how (since God's existence is so important to you) every failed disproof is more help to you and your agenda. Close minded B1tch.
whoever posted this video is a loser. does using the word fucktard make u feel powerful or something?complexity....how would a perfect strand of dna randomly fall onto a planet, aka early earth, which had a poisonous gas atmosphere at the time and survive? i dnt think all the materials to creat 1 strand of fragile dna would have come from the corners of the universe to gather on a shitty ass, venus like planet to form life..this could not have happened without intelligence like God
Is your post satire? I hope so, because if not, you will die on your own without the state, mommy and daddy to look after you. You are too dumb to keep from poking your own eyes out with table cutlery, if left unsupervised.
ok then tell me how this happened completely by chance....if u cant tell me ill shove that piece of table cutlery into your vagina....i dnt know why atheists watch these videos at all.. trying to find proof of Gods unexistence... why r u all obssesed with disproving God? is it because u still have an ounce of hope that wen u die it wont all be over? buncha losers and white trash.. i bet u feel smart using the word satire..hohoho
Well, at least you are living up to your screen-name. There are separate issues here and religious folk conflate them. Whether or not god exists is one issue. The origin of the universe is another. The origin of life is yet another. We know how life evolves once it generates and we have a pretty good idea of how abiogenesis may have occurred. Religious doctrine is nothing but a string of failures when it comes into contact with science. Why? Because it is fiction and science reveals truth
if humans evolved why would nature give us such incredibly complex brains to develop a society? its not like we wouldnt survive if we were stupider. and why dont we wipe out all other animals instead of having emotions for the environment? what do having emotions have to do with our survival. to many loose ends to have been created by evolution. and whyr we even able to create things and curious about our own existence? has nothing to do with survival.if evolution made us wed be jungle people
Your understanding of what evolution is and how it operates is deeply flawed. Clearly we do not have a common basis of understanding to work from. If you truly want answers to those questions, PM me. 400 or so characters is simply not enough space, especially when you lack even a basic understanding. As for why we don't wipe out animals? I dunno, as a dodo.
What exactly would that have to do with the discussion?
You've obviously been influenced by some arguments that seem "intellectual" and compelling, but that are actually quite vacuous. If you truly want to know about evolution, the information is on the internet, and it does not reside with Ken Hamm, Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort or Ben Stein.
i really dont care about evolution. i know all about natural selection and how it works. its a good idea but there are too many loose ends tying it to human deveopment. so how old r u? i wana know who im arguing with
If you are happy in your ignorance, that's fine with me. Just don't claime to "know all about" a subject when clearly you lack a basic level of comprehension of it. The course of human evolution is pretty well laid out, both in terms of fossils, but more especially DNA. I'm not sure what "loose ends" you are referring too, but if it involves a skeleton marked "Adam" or "Eve" or worse, a croco-duck, you will forever be disappointed.
ok whatever. what level of education do u have. how old r u.still havent answered me.u tell me i lack bisic understanding.. are you some kind of historical biologist?
Diversity of life through Natural Selection is very clear. If you think that stupid creatures would just die, then you obviously aren't aware of the millions of species of living organisms on the planet that would be "stupid" by the standards of the average human being. I very well side with Atheists, and I tend to consider myself one in many ways, yet I'm spiritual in many ways. You seem to have something against people who don't share your beliefs, yet, I don't think you understand your own.
ok polygamatic cock taster.. its obvious that somethins wrong with nature because humans are so incredibly different. animals dont create society or complex language or are influenced by others. it doesnt take a genius to realize. but im sure that you are a succesful evolutionary biologist. its not me that has a problem with opposite belfiefs, i just made a comment. look at all the other polygamatic cock tasters who hav opposed my comment. must be your child family. are you all at an orgy?
If you knew anything about non-human animals, you'd know that most, if not all, actually do have a means of communication. I guess you aren't aware that even animals form "groups", and in those groups, they develop "order". Try reading books, doing studies, and becoming educated. Insulting me isn't going to make things better. I've been studying Evolution. Don't try debating about it if you haven't done so, yourself
@TheAlexANGST To extrapolate that comment, look at some "lower" creatures for a prime example. Ants for instance, have complete order in their colonies. Groundhogs, Bees, Lions, Chimpanzees, Dolphins, all these animals have communication, large social groups, and "laws" in those social groups. Religion is NOT the creation of morals, like some would have you believe.
Yes, I develop my morals through education. Science has helped me understand how other animals work, and has helped me to become vegetarian. Art is another way to gather moral values. The Matrix movies were really good into philosophical insight, philosophy being another way to gather moral values. Religion would fit into a category of philosophy, yet, also the sub-category of Dogma. Not that the beliefs, themselves, are the worst part, but that they force them on children, and other people.
Ant colonies? Lion prides? Animals are capable of social interaction, you just ignore it. In fact, some might argue that ants have better empathy than humans.
Stein's comment is a perfect example of the self-refuting nature of Intelligent Design. Complexity requires a designer. A designer is complex. Therefore the designer requires a designer. Therefore the designer of the designer requires a designer. Therefore the designer of the designer of the designer requires a designer. Therefore... god done did it.
methinxaweezil 1 week ago
The bible is in essence a fraud anyway. God is not anywhere in the bible time except for that it is only a believe but not a reality as such, not in the way religion portraits a God anyway. So the ten commandments were NOT given to Moses by God at all, was someone else on the mountain, a normal human. Jesus was never on the cross. Gospels are faked !
TheRelihunter 2 weeks ago in playlist Proof of the stupidity of bible thumpers
"intelligently designed"...so I guess babies dying from genetic diseases...that's part of the intelligence too.
Casshyr 2 months ago
lol@inthepurelight. I'm sorry but I cannot help myself to just laugh at your comment. You are making the assumption that the thing you believe in will be proven at some point. Spiritual beings in eternal creation, really? You reek of creationism. And ofcourse, as aknowledged by tingtangs, it's just plain stupid to say you don't need proof. You're basically saying: I believe in something and I just know it's true so don't bother with all those evidence thingies. The definition of ignorance
Kugashiro 2 months ago
One word, Bananas... think about it.
jimmi161 5 months ago
@jimmi161 Wich kind of bananas? wild bananas or those bread and cultivated by humans?
Sweddude 3 months ago
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the spiritual free thinking man will always be ahead of the atheist, because he has faith to see a thing before it's proven. Spiritual men will always outnumber atheists because we are spiritual beings, in eternal creation. I have no need to offer proof,waiting for proof is living in stunted ignorance.
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight By the way a literal person lives in ignorance in the same way.
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight I have no argument with science , and for the record aronRa is one of the most honest atheist and 95% right......(don't Quibble over hypothetical percentages )
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight even 1% is a huge if
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight You are anti-science.
tingtangs 6 months ago
@tingtangs far from it ,love science in it's pure and intended form, where ego's and politics don't inhibit free thought. science in this day and age is about 50 years behind where it should be because of those factors.At no time did I espouse a dogma invoke a "God" or in any way denigrate science I simply asserted that in my belief man is a spiritual entity and to connect with that reality put's you in a higher state of consciousness.,with scientific reason exceeds single dimensional atheism
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight hahahaha my brother, if it weren't for men who didn't really on things waiting for proof, we would not be very far in the world today. you wouldn't even be typing on this computer right now if it weren't for those who dedicated there lives to science. when has religion ever done something so progressive?
TheRationalist76 6 months ago
@TheRationalist76 that's the point I made,however I said nothing about religion, so what's religion got to do with anything I said? Is steve Jobs atheist?
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@TheRationalist76 I thought he was Buddhist
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight their* my mistake, typing fast. and what? who is Buddhist?
TheRationalist76 6 months ago
@TheRationalist76 Steve Jobs
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight Yes, but Buddhism at least uses reason. It understands that science and observation are the key to comprehending and explaining this Universe. It does not simply use "faith before it's proven". Steve Jobs had a vision, and used science to accomplish that vision. Yet simple faith that something is going to happen does not mean it will happen, action is key. Action is what causes things to happen, not faith. You cannot simply hope something is true, and believe it will be proven
TheRationalist76 6 months ago
@inthepurelight Spiritualists and the Religious are not so different. They both hold faith in something and do not see with reason. Both are guilty of the same crimes. If you were not speaking of religion, and more so spiritualism, i will not hold you any higher, nor is my argument flawed
TheRationalist76 6 months ago
@TheRationalist76 you definitely make a convincing argument for the whole "we come from monkey's thing so consider me convinced
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight ...i have no idea what evolution has to do with our current conversation, but okay then
TheRationalist76 6 months ago
@inthepurelight The "spiritual" faith head is not free thinking, because he is bound by dogmas with no support in evidence or fact.
I'm sure superstitious morons will always outnumber atheists, but just because billions of flies are eating shit does not make it a good idea.
You do have a need to offer proof. The problem is that you dont' have any.
You are an ignorant fucktard.
tingtangs 6 months ago 17
@tingtangs You seem like a very enlightened being,one who's capacity for higher level thought has enabled you to state your case quite eloquently , and mine as well, may William whewell bless you:)
inthepurelight 6 months ago
@inthepurelight O.K." waiting for proof is living in stunted ignorance" I received a telepathic message from god who says that if you don't strip naked right now and cover yourself in caramel jello-pudding while streaking your local mall, the earth is going to be demolished by an asteroid. You had better not wait for proof, because that would make you look stupid!
alianchild 4 months ago
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@alianchild Why would your God need me to do anything?
inthepurelight 4 months ago
There is in this universe much of what appears to be designed, but instead we repeatedly that natural processes , collisional selections of worlds, or natural selection of gene pools, or even the convection pattern of a pot of boiling water, can extract order out of chaos., and deceive us to deducing purpose where there is none, the significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. ~Carl Sagan~
Akira89M 8 months ago
What part of "except" did you miss?
MasteringTheClassic1 9 months ago 2
@MasteringTheClassic1 the diversity and complexity of life (or should I say imperfect complexity) is evidence of evolution not ID.
Jshect 7 months ago
A nice example of how ALL such creationist positions rest on argument from ignorance: "We can't understand how it could come about naturally, therefore it must have come about supernaturally." And of course, THAT is nothing than "god of the gaps": We can't figure out a natural process for this, so a supernatural process "fits well" here.
GetMeThere1 10 months ago
If Ben Stein is the product of ID then I am even further away from beliving than I have ever been. A perfect ever loving God that designed everything in the universe desighned him ........Well he screwed up big time... There is no God..!!!!!!!!!
allanhill1 10 months ago
Ben Stein's voice is SO ANNOYING. He was great in Ferris Bueller's Day Off as an annoying teacher who puts you to sleep. Now that he is trying to act intelligent-- his foolisheness shines through!
EdgeOfDaCoin 11 months ago
Note to tingtangs: The complexity of which Stein speaks is "specified complexity"--not the fixed complexity of a snowflake.
MorganMarvinson 11 months ago
It is logically/syllogistically unsound to use natural selection as evidence against a divine creator. Darwin never did. He only refuted the literal interpretation of the Bible. While he saw monstrous inequity and immorality in nature (insects paralyzing other insects to make them living hosts of their eggs, things like that), he did not believe this was conclusive. To conclude that a creator (rightly or wrongly) was not a part of evolution for Darwin was outside the scope of his theory.
SleepyWob 1 year ago
Wow, a slip-up for Mr. Stein. He admitted the truth for once.
somethingdiffereable 1 year ago
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ClearLogicClear 1 year ago
I think the bible is one of the worst things to ever influence human society. It frowned upon free thinking, individuality, and had an inhumane view towards women. I'll admit there are some good parts where proper morality is encouraged but no one ever actually followed through on it. It's done much more harm then good and it's given people a scapegoat. It's sad when a holy book can be used as a shield for your hatred and ignorance of others.
Honaro2nd 1 year ago
@Honaro2nd Read it again, it advocates a solid moral framework within the personal sphere, thus preserving the value of the individual rather than imposing a mere set of secular Laws to be followed under threat of death. And inhumane toward women? explain (if you can).
You've decided that living according to christian principles doesn't suit you and have allowed that to taint your view of the book. So, what alternative do you suggest? think very carefully on that question, its a biggie.
foolioay 1 year ago
@foolioay It's a Christian principle to stone unruly or disobedient children to death. In the Bible, God also advocates slavery. Why have we ignored these examples of Christian "morality" while making other examples law? Even if the Bible is the word of God, Christians have cherry-picked from it, informed by their OWN inate sense of right and wrong. Christians don't stone unruly children to death because it's abhorrant to them, even though it is the will of God, according to the Bible
parlezuml 1 year ago
@parlezuml "It's a Christian principle to stone unruly or disobendient children to death..."? Really? I think you're talking about the Old Testament of the Bible. There were no christians at that time yet. There wer hebrews and they were under the law. Harsh, I agree. I have never heard of a christian parent stoning their disobedient children ever. Christ Himself did not let the woman caught in adultery to get stoned. "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."
melaygrovecourt 11 months ago
Scientists have no proof for the beginnning of life. All theory and conjecture.
xukeith33 1 year ago
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idk how anyone can go through life without knowing why there on this earth and what will happen when you die.. the only reason i doubt my religion is because why God hasnt ended this evil fucked country AMERICA which was founded by GOD
ObamatTheAntiChrist 1 year ago
Dear old Ben Stein, right-wing shill, semi-retarded creationist, complete and utter moron!
Buddythunder1 1 year ago
yeah we don't have evidence for intelligant design besides the complexity of the human body. We do have tons of evidence for the bible that for some wierd reason, atheists are having a real hard time disproving. isn't that wierd?!?!??! i mean come on its a book made by people who were about half as intellegent as we are today and for some reason, it can't be disproven!
nerdized 1 year ago
@nerdized Which aspects specifically come to mind for you? Many aspects of the bible have been disproved at various times throughout history. They are simply no longer taken literally. Of the evidence you allude to, how much of it is reliant on the existence of a god? The resurrection comes to mind for me, but can any strong evidence for these aspects be demonstrated?
ElNerdoLoco 1 year ago
The abysmal understanding of science in this country saddens me. There are many things I don't know so guess what I do.....I research. If you haven't done any real research into topics of cosmology or evolution, not just what the bible or church tells you, or what you've gathered from what you've heard please don't add your two cents into the topic. It's like walking in half way through the movie and thinking you know the whole plot.
clockworkornge 1 year ago
you people hate god and that fine but a magical soup turning into everything and a mystic explosion that makes matter appear sounds just as retarded. scientific fact is we don't know will never know and theory of our origins are just that alone ..its just good story telling like any cartoon.
PlanetHenry 1 year ago
@PlanetHenry how can we hate something we don't believe exists? magical soup? you don't wait long to expose how little you know about abiogenesis, if anything at all. there is nothing magical about different molecules conforming to physics. every time i think of creation 'science', i can't help but be overwhelmed by the mental image of a bearded man, nodding along to the i dream of jeannie theme song and creating dogs and toasters and palm trees. how can you say 'we will never know'?
holdenbane 1 year ago
hey some people believe in a giant explosion that makes land masses and planets some believe in aliens and as i stated its all just good story telling. big bang lol when scienetist make rockets that build land masses i will see it as tested and proven till then another theory
PlanetHenry 1 year ago
@PlanetHenry no, no one 'believes' that. that is what we currently know about the evidence we have. the universe is expanding from a finite point and that is not debatable. aliens are however, something you 'believe in' seeing as there is no evidence to back them up. what the hell do rockets have anything to do with this conversation?
holdenbane 1 year ago
@holdenbane science is about testing and proving and the big ban theory of explosions making matter would mean a rocket that explodes into islands should be possible....i re.read what i typed i mean i think it was pretty clear the first time round...
PlanetHenry 1 year ago
@PlanetHenry its more like a hydrogen momb creating a small universe, and if detonated in space thats not totall impossible.
elgostine 1 year ago
@elgostine a little more complex than that.... but if you say so i'm in.... (lets not listen to mans opinions as they will change, but rather God's opinions, which are found in the Bible, where we have answers to lifes questions.
The end
11111dustin11111 1 year ago
@11111dustin11111 yeah but thats boring to be honest, NOTHING new about the world. imean, nothing to be improved upon.
i dunno. that saounds to my mind as dull.
and yeah its abit morecomplex than that was just saying a bettr example.
elgostine 1 year ago
@11111dustin11111 FAIL AT LIFE
shandcunt 1 year ago
Ben Stein is smarter than most dogs.
SamWhitemoon1 1 year ago
Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm not used to this new and (not) improved YouTube™ Text Comments thing. I'm used to the Edit box CLOSING when I submit a post. :-(
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
Wow....you have to be kidding. You aren't capable of performing a simple analysis (a third grader could do). The answers are in my comments. Anyhow, arguing with the religiously motivated has always been an exercise in severe futility. Which is exactly what this is so....never mind.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001, if your so right, it shouldn't be so hard to debate me.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter According to you, Christians keep to themselves and aren't compelled to spread their beliefs. Yet, the Christian right is one of the biggest donors of campaign funds in this country, only the insurance corporations contribute more. Hmmm..wonder why they're so power hungry?
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001, how is campaign funds relevant to wanting to keep to themselves about their relegion?
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter When you have figured out what the connection is and are prepared to debate the issue let me know. Till then....Bye
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@Houshalter Are you serious? You don't know why Christians donate vast sums to political parties.
nosajj12345 1 year ago
@nosajj12345, they don't! Just because some people donate to political parties and happen to be Christian doesn't mean theres a correlation!
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, wrong again. Many Christian organizations explicitly encourage their members to donate to specific political parties and candidates. To avoid losing tax-exempt status for churches, they have to form PACs to do that (e.g. Focus on the Family, etc.), but that doesn't change the fact that they do it.
There are major Christian movements whose express WRITTEN goal is to TAKE OVER and RULE THE WORLD, *POLITICALLY* (not just spiritually), in the name of Jesus, starting with the USA.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, Yes, there are a few organizations like that. It doesn't mean thats the goal of every american who happens to be Christian.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, I never said that it was. It is, however, the goal of the MOVERS & SHAKERS *BEHIND* the right-wing Christian movements. It's the goal of Mike Huckabee (who co-authored a book with Dr. George Grant [founder of Coral Ridge Ministries], who emphasized in print that their goal is "World domination."), Sarah Palin (the movement she's in goes way further than that), David Barton and his Wallbuilders, Inc., Kent Hovind, Ken Hamm, The Discovery Institute, Answers in Genesis, etc.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, There are no "shakers" any more. Other than that, I'm not a creationist and don't agree with their policies, so don't try to throw this crap at me.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter How do you explain the Faith Based Innitiatives? Also,The Public Expressions of Religion Act (H.R. 2679) which is a blatant violation of church and state BTW. What about creationism being pushed on our kids in schools. Yet you claim Christians keep their ideology to themselves and don't get involved in politics. If I ever get as obtuse as you, I'll hang myself LOL. Funny how an atheist had to teach you things should have already known.
nosajj12345 1 year ago
@nosajj12345, I swear you just said creationists represented the majority of christians. You have lost.
Houshalter 1 year ago
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Our bodies are made from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7 & 3:19). Researchers at NASA's Ames Research Center confirmed that every element in Humans can be found in the soil. Scientist have discovered that the Human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements- ALL of which are found in the dust of the ground.-
shotsxxx 1 year ago
how about everyone just quit arguing about it and let the others believe what they want to
MrSkate4weed 1 year ago
@MrSkate4weed Believe what you want to, but dont push your beliefs on others, which christians and creationists in particular are famous for.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
how was i pushing my beliefs on others?
MrSkate4weed 1 year ago
@MrSkate4weed I was more just saying it in general.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
ffffffffuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkk this shit, by shit i mean school FUCK SCHOOL
MrSkate4weed 1 year ago
@spiderpig85 No in general Christians usually just say what they believe. This is not pushing your beliefs on others. I have looked on the at religious comments for a while and I have only seen a handful of Christians do what you say. I have however seen the majority of atheist's push their nonbeliefs on others. I don't know maybe it is just me.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
Missionaries? Evangelical commercials? Latter Day saints commercials? Are you joking when you say Christians don't push their beliefs?
What do you call going to an area where they haven't ever seen white people and giving them bibles and telling them that unless they pray to god, they will go to hell and suffer forever?
Get off your high horse and realize that these Christians are VERY unchristlike...
spiderpig85 1 year ago
I was talking about on the internet. On the internet it would seem the atheist's are a minority, but definately yell the loudest. And when they do yell it is usually unpleasant things that is much worse than pushing nonbeliefs.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
@sh4rpsh0t33 Yea.....I think it is just you...
robbugman 1 year ago
For every video or comment that pushes Christianity I will give you 5 that pushes Atheism.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
Because religion is just plain un-healthy for a persons mind. Through atheism we can really push forward as a human race, where religion is just hindering us.
SteeZins6 1 year ago
unhealthy how? How and the world can atheism push forward anything. It is a "nothing" stance.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
@ sh4rpsh0t33 as opposed to a stance that holds us back? i'll take a nothing stance meaning i'm free to live whatever kind of life i want than a restrictive one
GeneralMontague 1 year ago
@GeneralMontague What is holding me back? There is nothing that I am not allowed to do from Christianity that I would want do in the first place.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
Pushing something suggests proselytizing. Atheists don't go around starting up churches trying to convert the masses. If anything it's the opposite. they seek to distance themselves from religion. You'd better work on those observational skills.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001 Seek to distance themselves from religion? Then how come most religion videos on youtube are from atheist's? How come most religious meme's are made from atheist's?
Starting a church is a way for everyone who loves god to be able to join together and worship. No one pushes anyone to go it is their own choice.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
What kind of a Christian are you? According to every Christian I've encountered, you are ordered, by biblical mandate, to go out and spread the word and CONVERT non believers. That means imposing your beliefs on others. If you see a lot of atheist vids its because they're merely responding to Christian imposition and arrogance. LOL..like I said, work on those observational skills. Either you are faking ignorance or truly are ignorant.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
I highly doubt any Christian that you encountered ever said they are ordered to spread anything, or you simply misunderstood. And the fact you think anyone is ordered to convert others is laughable. You are not ordered to do anything by the Bible. They may spread the word of God as information, but in know way is that what this argument was about. It was about harking your stance as superior in unpleasant rhetoric.
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
Well that's not how your Christian brothers from other denominations feel. Or were you not aware that there are other Christian churches with different biblical interpretations than that of your church? Are you naive enough to think that the way your church interprets scripture is the set standard for all Christian churches? Christians do proselytize and are compelled by the Bible to do so. Mathew 28:19. How ironic that a secularist had to teach you somehting you should have already known.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
And atheism is not a religion!!!
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
Obviously...
sh4rpsh0t33 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001,
"Atheists don't go around starting up churches trying to convert the masses."
1: Churches are for people that have already been converted.
2: Atheists have organizations that are essentially the equivalent of churches.
3: Most christians don't even bring up relegion unless they have to. They're fine with others believing what they want. Atheists barge in all over the place. The other day an atheist group was trading in bibles for porn at a college. WTF!
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter You need to read ALL of my comments. I made myself quite clear and I'm fairly certain my previous comments cover all 3 of your points. To reply again would be redundant and a waste of our time. As far as porn for Bibles goes. Yes it sounds disrespectful, but that pales in comparison to the pain, suffering, and slaughter brought on by religion and religiously deluded people. You are living proof of how f****d up priorities can get under the influence of religion
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
First of all, I read your comments and you didn't really bring up my arguments.
"that pales in comparison to the pain, suffering, and slaughter brought on by religion and religiously deluded people."
Really?
"You are living proof of how f****d up priorities can get under the influence of religion"
What "fucked up priorities" am I demonstrating?
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter
It's also quite funny that Atheists like to talk about the atrocities that "individuals" have created or cause and tie the cause to their religion as a whole, but when you bring up Stalin and Zedong, they say you can't say that descirbes Atheism as whole, but they're more than willing to do it to the likes of Hitler or other radicals. It's quite a double standard and "one" of the reasons I abandoned that ignorant side of the chalk.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
@DandBMonk Do you really believe that if Stalin and Zedong had been brought up on Christian values that this would have precluded them from commiting the crimes that they did? I find it interesting that nearly all of the prison population in the U.S. claims a Catholic or Chrisitain upbringing. It's the same for 99% of all the people on death row. Take a minute to think before you decide which side of that chalk is ignorant.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001, the statistics about crime rates v religion are extrordinarily inaccurate for a bunch of reasons. For one, crime is attributed to a bunch of social factors, like poverty, that just happen to be more conservative, hence christian. Also note that people in prisons have a phycological "desire" to want a God that would forgive them. Also note factors like prisons having churches, people not wanting to stand out from the crowd, etc. Besides, where are these stats from?
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter "Crime is attributed to a bunch of social factors." No duhh! You're missing the point. Blacks and Latinos make up the majority and whites the minority in U.S. prisons. Blks and Ltns are born into VERY religious cultures. They don't convert to God in prisn they reaffirm what they were to begin with. They were all born and raised Baptist, Catholic or Christian. Almost 80% of the prison pop. was religious before they went in. Why don't you look this up for yourself?
nosajj12345 1 year ago
@nosajj12345, but you are assuming that there is a correlation between the two. There is not. Crime statistics are a very well studied area and there are many factors that contribute, but religion doesn't happen to be one of them.
Houshalter 1 year ago
Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds. The last time religion ruled the western world, the result was the Dark Ages. For a thousand years we allowed magical thinking to retard the advancement of knowledge, and the progress of humanity.
Ignorance and superstition lurk at the fringes of our society.
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly, I don't know what religion your talking about. Even making the assumption that such a awful, powerful religion exists, then why should you care? If your an atheist, then there is no morals.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter
"Atheism leads a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation: all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue...""What you should say to outsiders is that a Christian has neither more nor less rights in our Association than an atheist. When our platform becomes too narrow for people of all creeds and of no creeds, I myself shall not stand upon it." Susan B. Anthony "
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
@4me2cclearly
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good."
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, "If your an atheist, then there is no morals. "
No. That does not follow. Atheism is merely the lack of any belief in any god(s), and has nothing to do with morals, either the presence nor absence thereof. Many atheists are moral people, and many theists are amoral or downright immoral (e.g. Joseph Kony and his Christian organization "Lord's Resistance Army" [LRA] that wreaked unimaginable atrocities in northern Uganda in recent years).
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, I think you find that for one, there is no KNOWN correlation between religion and morality, but I think if you look at the grand scheme of things, atheists are more likely to be "immoral".
This video sums up the problem of atheistic morals perfectly:
watch?v=nrZ02K7dlfk
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, no, that video sums up how to make several logical fallacies perfectly (multiple strawmen, Argument from Personal Incredulity / God of the Gaps, False Dichotomy, and many more).
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, describe the fallacies or shut up. I'm not sure you even watched the video.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, calling me a liar? I debate you with respect, and do not call you or anyone else a liar unless I have proof not only of a false statement, but of WILLFUL and MALICIOUS INTENT TO DECEIVE by KNOWINGLY making a false statement.
Yes, I watched the video all the way through, a few minutes ago. I even posted a comment to its author (same basic stuff I said here in more detail), though since it's set to "Comment Pending Approval," I don't know when (or if) it'll show up.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, Just tell me how logical fallacies were used, not "there were some, but I can't tell you".
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, okay:
• Strawmen — assigning to ones opponent a position that the opponent does NOT actually hold, then debating against that position. Example: saying that morals "must be" programmed into us by evolution. No. Were that the case, then morals would be universal among mankind. They are not. Morals derive from culture.
• Personal Incredulity / God of the Gaps: Several times he says that if the strawman can't explain morals, then GODDIDIT.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
• False Dichotomy — from what I can tell (I havent watched them all yet), most of his videos center around this. "If I prove atheism false, then that proves that MY god TRUE!!" No. There have been hundreds of thousands of gods worshipped. EVEN IF morals had to come from a god, that does NOT provide even ONE IOTA of support to the idea that it was YHWH God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It could be Zeus or Odin or Krishna or Quetzalcoatl. Or maybe one NOBODY ever HEARD of, nor worshiped.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
EVEN IF he could prove CHRISTIANITY true, well, there have been at least 33,000 variants (denominations, sects, cults, subdenominations, etc.) of CHRISTIANITY *ALONE* to date. Nearly all of them claim to follow the Bible, but all have different beliefs. At least ½ of them claim to be the ONLY TRUE Christianity, and most of those believe that if you believe in the "wrong" Christianity, you're JUST AS DAMNED as an atheist or idolator!
Those aren't good odds for Pascal's Wager.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, Christian - a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, Maybe, but as I said, the video was not meant to prove that God exists. Maybe your right and the flying spagghetti monster did it but that still means that atheists are wrong.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, first of all, atheists have even told me that evolution is responsible for morals, but if it bothers you, he handles the culture case to.
The video wasn't meant to actually prove God's existence but to throw a wrench at atheism.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, given that his intent was "... to throw a wrench at atheism," well, he missed. By a long shot.
A truly moral person does the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing, with NO expectation of nor even hope for reward of ANY kind. Expecting salvation, or crowns of glory, a better mansion in Jesus's Father's House, or whatever in the afterlife does NOT qualify. Ditto Karma or any other mystical scheme of reward/punishment.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, So thats how you do things for other people, because you have a random feeling to do it. But what if someone did something amoral to you? You can't blame them for not following your set of morals.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, no, you miss my point. I do not claim to be a truly altruistically moral person by that definition. I actually don't believe that such a person exists, in or out of religion, whether theist or atheist. Even doing it because it gives you warm fuzzy feelings, or boosts your self-esteem, is still a reward. Even doing it because it assuages your conscience is still a reward.
Other than the truly insane, every decision that any rational person makes is based on economics of some type.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ
How does the word "right" compute? Where did your "right" come from? Is it possible that your "right" might be my "wrong"? Some humans think it is "right" to rape and kill. Who decides?
flashgm41 1 year ago
@flashgm41, I'm not sure which of my posts that was in Reply to, but I guess it's the one where I said that a truly moral person would do the right thing JUST BECAUSE it's the right thing. You ask who decides what is "right"?
Answer: sociological influences. Each society lays down rules for its participants, to facilitate the continued functioning of the society. Without these rules and general agreement to follow them, the society cannot effectively function.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
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@Houshalter, there IS a correlation between religion and morality — just not the way you want.
`I think if you look at the grand scheme of things, atheists are more likely to be "immoral".'
Were that true, then the percentage of atheists in prison would be greater than in the general population. The 180° DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE is in fact the case. And we're not talking about people who "find religion" IN prison. These statistics are about what they WERE, WHEN THEY COMMITTED THE CRIMES!
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, but your assuming there is a correlation, not an influence from other factors. People who are more likely to commit crimes are more likely to do so from other factors. Eg; poor people are more likely to commit crimes, and poor people are more likley to be religious. Just one example.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, look up "correlation" in a dictionary. Yes, there is a correlation. That is hard statistical fact. What is debatable is the MEANING of the correlation, as well as the cause of it (if any). As you say, poverty may be a factor in both crime and religion. Ditto, lack of education (which itself correlates with poverty).
But the fact remains: atheists are underrepresented in prison. This is statistical fact, and IS a correlation BY DEFINITION.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
Is that your excuse or defense of Atheism? Yes, I whole-heartedly believe if Stalin had any religious values that wouldn't have occurred! You should really read up on what he did...slaughtered religious peoples, for the benefit of the state! Yes...Atheism "can" be a very evil influence friend.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
@DandBMonk You approach this from an emotional standpoint rather than a logical one. You emphatically insist that if Stalin had been a Christian everything would have been hunky dory. Ok....then what about all of those kings, popes and churches who ordered or directly participated in mass murder throughout history? These people were baptized, indoctrinated, sworn to obey the Ten Commandments, yet they still killed, didn't they. I don't need to read up, YOU DO!
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
LOL! Why is it that Atheists are always angry? That's something I wondered when I was one too...it was trying to convince those with the answers that my questions were better answers. That's "witnessing" for Atheists...in case you lifelong Christians don't know that. I'm sorry, but that's the problem...it's okay for Atheists to lump all Christians together for what a couple of idiots did, but it's a double standard when it comes to Atheists committing atrocities, huh?
DandBMonk 1 year ago
@DandBMonk "WHAT A COUPLE OF IDIOTS DID?".... You are unbelievable. LOL...oh my goodness. So you ascribe all the religiously inspired attrocities, that make up a good portion of human history, to the actions of "a couple of idiots?" Again, you serve as an example of the arrogance and the ignorance that pervades and deludes the opinions of the religiously motivated. And the scripture quote LOL..oh so typical.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
Are "you" kidding me? Two Atheists murder more people in sixty years...SIXTY, than all these HUNDREDS, EVEN THOUSANDS of years of religious wars, and that's all you can say? We're talking about two Atheists...just two! You can't "show" the Truth to a blind one...they can hear it, but they just can't see it. That's a shame.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
God gave you a choice. You believe that the clashing of atoms and numerous chemical reactions created your mind and you "dance to your dna" or are programmed...I believe God gave us freewill.
"When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all."--C.S. Lewis
DandBMonk 1 year ago
Stalin and Zedong killed more people in a span 60 years combined, than "all" the religious wars ever fought! They killed over 100 million people! I need to read up? Really?
DandBMonk 1 year ago
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As long as Atheists continue to connect the ignorance of "some" Christians to all of them...I will continue to do the same to Atheists. It's the Atheist ideas of Stalin and Zedong that caused the deaths of these people...does that reflect you and your attitude? If not, then why should the ignorance of "some" reflect Jesus? What Jesus said and what some idiots do is two completely different things.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
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COMALiteJ 1 year ago
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COMALiteJ 1 year ago
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COMALiteJ 1 year ago
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@DandBMonk, no, Stalin and Zedong (and Pot for that matter) were not atheists. They created CULTS of Personality centered around themselves. ALL cults are, BY DEFINITION, *RELIGIONS*.
Furthermore, they also declared the State the "god." ANY belief in ANY god(s) is, BY DEFINITION, *NOT* ATHEIST.
And even discounting all that, NONE of them did their massacres in the NAME OF atheism. The Inquisitions, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc. were ALL done in the NAME OF Christianity.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ
Wow...you even try to explain them away? LOL! It's a lot more honorable to take it on the chin then lie, or perhaps you're just ignorant of that which you speak. You've opened your mouth about something which you know not. That's farrr more ignorant than knowing and misquoting. I've provided the History lesson, and it's obvious you failed. Yes...they were Atheist. Stalin persecuted the religious.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
@DandBMonk, I wasn't lying. I posted the same thing multiple times because I thought the new "Post" button wasn't working, so I clicked it multiple times. Why would I lie about something like that? I deleted the duplicates, but theyre still showing as "Comment removed." I apologized for that in good faith.
As for knowing what I'm talking about: "a-theist." From the Greek: "theist" meaning "believer in (a) god(s)." The "a-" prefix simply means "not." "A-theist" means "not a theist."
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ
It's even absurd that you're trying to explain it away by, basically, saying that any belief system is a religion. LOL! You're lumping in Stalin's A-theism into a religion, because it's centered on himself? THAT'S WHAT ATHEISM IS!!! A belief thta nothing's higher than you...it's quite self centered to believe that you're in control of everything...as Stalin did. Sorry to embarrass you, but only ignorant statements you speak!
DandBMonk 1 year ago
" THAT'S WHAT ATHEISM IS!!! A belief thta nothing's higher than you"
Wrong. Atheism is the LACK OF belief in any gods. Nothing more, nothing less.
Even by YOUR (false) definition, though, Stalin himself may have been atheist, but he was imposing a CULT of PERSONALITY on the Soviet populace, from the Kremlin down to the lowest of the low. ALL of THEM were NOT to believe that nothing was higher than THEM. They were to believe that nothing was higher than the STATE, or STALIN HIMSELF.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
Thus, the State itself became their God, with Stalin as the embodiment of their God. That is NOT ATHEISM. PERIOD. ANY belief in ANY god(s) of ANY KIND is, BY DEFINITION, **NOT** ATHEISM.
"Atheism" is to "theism" as "apolitical" is to "political," "asymmetric" is to "symmetric," "asexual" is to "sexual," and so on, and so on, and so on.
Atheism is the COMPLETE AND TOTAL ABSENCE of ANY belief in, let alone worship of, ANY SORT of god(s). Even oneself.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ, atheism is a religion. Pwned >=)
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter, atheism is only a religion in the same exact sense that "completely bald" is a hair color, or "an unopened ream of completely blank inkjet printer paper" is a work of literature.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@handsomedevill1001
Matthew 7:22-23
"On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
Crusades? Inquistion? Salem Witch Trials?
It's not Jesus fault they strayed from what He said, but He knew it would happen.
DandBMonk 1 year ago
@DandBMonk Point being, If faith in Christ wasn't enough to keep Christians from killing each other and those of other faiths (in the name of God LOL ) how would belief in Christ have kept Stalin from ordering his attrocities. Had you thought this through you wouldn't have posted a reply.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
@DandBMonk You are living proof of how religion blurs logic in favor of irrational, dumb, emotionally based responses. That is the track record and legacy of religion. Thanks to boneheads like you, the world must continue to suffer it.
handsomedevill1001 1 year ago
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DandBMonk 1 year ago
@TheScreamingRetard
You sure do live up to your name.
Anyone who is slightly more intelligent than you could tell you that nothing is proven, it is only NOT disproven. You must exhaust all other options of God's "unexistence" before you can claim that he truly DOES exist. Maybe instead of calling people losers and white trash, you should think about how (since God's existence is so important to you) every failed disproof is more help to you and your agenda. Close minded B1tch.
ItachiUchiha222 2 years ago
whoever posted this video is a loser. does using the word fucktard make u feel powerful or something?complexity....how would a perfect strand of dna randomly fall onto a planet, aka early earth, which had a poisonous gas atmosphere at the time and survive? i dnt think all the materials to creat 1 strand of fragile dna would have come from the corners of the universe to gather on a shitty ass, venus like planet to form life..this could not have happened without intelligence like God
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
Is your post satire? I hope so, because if not, you will die on your own without the state, mommy and daddy to look after you. You are too dumb to keep from poking your own eyes out with table cutlery, if left unsupervised.
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
ok then tell me how this happened completely by chance....if u cant tell me ill shove that piece of table cutlery into your vagina....i dnt know why atheists watch these videos at all.. trying to find proof of Gods unexistence... why r u all obssesed with disproving God? is it because u still have an ounce of hope that wen u die it wont all be over? buncha losers and white trash.. i bet u feel smart using the word satire..hohoho
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
Well, at least you are living up to your screen-name. There are separate issues here and religious folk conflate them. Whether or not god exists is one issue. The origin of the universe is another. The origin of life is yet another. We know how life evolves once it generates and we have a pretty good idea of how abiogenesis may have occurred. Religious doctrine is nothing but a string of failures when it comes into contact with science. Why? Because it is fiction and science reveals truth
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
if humans evolved why would nature give us such incredibly complex brains to develop a society? its not like we wouldnt survive if we were stupider. and why dont we wipe out all other animals instead of having emotions for the environment? what do having emotions have to do with our survival. to many loose ends to have been created by evolution. and whyr we even able to create things and curious about our own existence? has nothing to do with survival.if evolution made us wed be jungle people
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
Your understanding of what evolution is and how it operates is deeply flawed. Clearly we do not have a common basis of understanding to work from. If you truly want answers to those questions, PM me. 400 or so characters is simply not enough space, especially when you lack even a basic understanding. As for why we don't wipe out animals? I dunno, as a dodo.
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
how old r u
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
What exactly would that have to do with the discussion?
You've obviously been influenced by some arguments that seem "intellectual" and compelling, but that are actually quite vacuous. If you truly want to know about evolution, the information is on the internet, and it does not reside with Ken Hamm, Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort or Ben Stein.
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
i really dont care about evolution. i know all about natural selection and how it works. its a good idea but there are too many loose ends tying it to human deveopment. so how old r u? i wana know who im arguing with
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
If you are happy in your ignorance, that's fine with me. Just don't claime to "know all about" a subject when clearly you lack a basic level of comprehension of it. The course of human evolution is pretty well laid out, both in terms of fossils, but more especially DNA. I'm not sure what "loose ends" you are referring too, but if it involves a skeleton marked "Adam" or "Eve" or worse, a croco-duck, you will forever be disappointed.
rohanwotan2 2 years ago
ok whatever. what level of education do u have. how old r u.still havent answered me.u tell me i lack bisic understanding.. are you some kind of historical biologist?
TheScreamingRetard 2 years ago
@TheScreamingRetard There are no 'loose ends' if you actually know anything about evolution.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
@TheScreamingRetard If you "dont care about evolution" than why are you posting here?
And by the way, you should probably stick to digging ditches, that was you won't look so stupid.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
Diversity of life through Natural Selection is very clear. If you think that stupid creatures would just die, then you obviously aren't aware of the millions of species of living organisms on the planet that would be "stupid" by the standards of the average human being. I very well side with Atheists, and I tend to consider myself one in many ways, yet I'm spiritual in many ways. You seem to have something against people who don't share your beliefs, yet, I don't think you understand your own.
TheAlexANGST 1 year ago
ok polygamatic cock taster.. its obvious that somethins wrong with nature because humans are so incredibly different. animals dont create society or complex language or are influenced by others. it doesnt take a genius to realize. but im sure that you are a succesful evolutionary biologist. its not me that has a problem with opposite belfiefs, i just made a comment. look at all the other polygamatic cock tasters who hav opposed my comment. must be your child family. are you all at an orgy?
TheScreamingRetard 1 year ago
If you knew anything about non-human animals, you'd know that most, if not all, actually do have a means of communication. I guess you aren't aware that even animals form "groups", and in those groups, they develop "order". Try reading books, doing studies, and becoming educated. Insulting me isn't going to make things better. I've been studying Evolution. Don't try debating about it if you haven't done so, yourself
TheAlexANGST 1 year ago
@TheAlexANGST To extrapolate that comment, look at some "lower" creatures for a prime example. Ants for instance, have complete order in their colonies. Groundhogs, Bees, Lions, Chimpanzees, Dolphins, all these animals have communication, large social groups, and "laws" in those social groups. Religion is NOT the creation of morals, like some would have you believe.
spiderpig85 1 year ago
Yes, I develop my morals through education. Science has helped me understand how other animals work, and has helped me to become vegetarian. Art is another way to gather moral values. The Matrix movies were really good into philosophical insight, philosophy being another way to gather moral values. Religion would fit into a category of philosophy, yet, also the sub-category of Dogma. Not that the beliefs, themselves, are the worst part, but that they force them on children, and other people.
TheAlexANGST 1 year ago
Ant colonies? Lion prides? Animals are capable of social interaction, you just ignore it. In fact, some might argue that ants have better empathy than humans.
Phyerbyrd 1 year ago
Hitler REJECTED evolution, you fucking idiot.
tingtangs 2 years ago
JCDisciple4363 is evidently a fucking moron.
The earth is not a closed system.
Evolution happens in GROUPS, not individuals.
Now, fuck off and die.
tingtangs 2 years ago