TZM is more of a philosophical analysis of our current state...TVP is more of a scientific solution to our current state. they should go hand in hand and cooperate. pete's take is "well, why bicker over credit when this is bigger than both of our groups and more about humanity." jaque seems to both be concerned with pete's practical, technical knowledge of TVP's process, and people's view of TZM being a "cult" hurting investment prospects. he'd rather hands on engineers spearhead the direction.
"In order to attain liberation, it is not necessary to join any organization or religion because they are binding and limiting, holding you to a particular form of worship and belief. If you long for freedom, you will fight against authority of any kind, for authority is the antithesis of spirituality" - J. Krishnamurti
lol any other scientist can't contribute to venus project because they were toughtin "traditional schools"? LOL first this woman is obviously stupid and second śhe is more interested in building a cult of personality around Jacque Fresco and boosting her ego in the process than actually trying to solve any problems.
Fact are facts -> RBE is from TVP, RBE is not from TZM. Any other organization loses the original information (similar to the game of telephone). Other organizations are unnecessary, since TVP is all-inclusive. When you advocate for an "RBE and TZM," people will not always get the original information before it is filtered through bias and projection. To be "most accurate," learn from the source if possible. TVP is here, so it is possible! Stop your emotional reactions please... use logic.
@shawn11112 I agree that TVP as an idea still has the same potential as it did before this but your extrapolation of this fact to the point that "Roxanne was right in screwing TZM/TVP needs no one else" is downright dysfunctional. No matter how brilliant, no idea and most importantly it's proponents should be viewed as 'complete' or flawless. This is dangerous for the idea and the domain where it is implemented...
@shawn11112 ...the problem of different names is a superficial excuse, its not about the label the group is working under, it is childish to say that if someone wears a TVP tag then only is he eligible to promote TVP...
@shawn11112 ... the real problem they(fresco and roxanne) had was that they wanted to be in the limelight and that required appearing as the sole custodians of TVP and this is the same attitude you are perpetuating here when you say "learn from TVP", that everyone should listen to just two persons, that *ONLY* Fresco and Roxane are capable of doing anything with TVP, no one else is capable of even *promoting* it. Fresco has himself said that no body can own an idea, all knowledge...
@Monu73796 This is a ridiculous statement. OK I challenge you to go learn calculus from a kindergarten teacher. This is a relevant comparison. I have been exposed strongly to these ideas and concepts for 3 years... you I would likely say less time... Jacque is 75 years - 35 of which is specific focus on TVP. It is not too crazy to assume he knows more on the topic than us. He is here, he is available... So instead of pointing people to random sources, why not point them to the actual source.
@shawn11112 Let me quote from TZM's FAQ: "It could be argued that all knowledge is serially developed through cultural and informational evolution and the concept of "Credit" and "Institutional Proprietary" becomes intellectually untenable in reality. This is not to say that those with expert authority are not to be favored in a situation that needs such merit in application But, on the data/reasoning level, information always stands on its own and endures its own logical scrutiny...
@shawn11112 ...and the messenger becomes unimportant." Extrapolating the idea of someone other than Fresco/Roxanne *POINTING* people to the TVP as a challenge to Fresco's technical merit further betrays paranoia and glory-fetish. Acc. to your logic calculus can only be known by Newton/Leibniz or to learn calculus one must work under them. Which is demonstrably false. The cornerstone of Fresco's ideas have always been the capacity of engg./scientific ideas to be distributed solely...
@shawn11112 ...through mathematical/logical language which is independent of personal opinions, to say that any scientific/architectural/engineering idea is understandable only by or through Fresco and not merely through abstracts and equations doesn't make sense. Further, Roxanne fails to give even a single instance where there actually has been dispute regarding *technicality* of any aspect of TVP from TZM. The implications of Fresco and Roxanne's attitudes in all this...
@Monu73796 has been very clear that no one but them is even worthy of of even *discussing* a given scientific idea, that if someone who is not intellectually subservient to them touches TVP it would inevitably get corrupted. 35 years or 350 years, it's fine if someone learns from Fresco, but to say that two minds by themselves are whole and infallible, goes against the very spirit of Fresco's ideas and of the scientific method itself and this is an explicitly demonstrable fact.
@shawn11112 ... is emergent and serially developed so to say that any other influence except Fresco and Roxanne, can only be corrupting due to "bias and projections" OR that an organisational label means anything((TVP/TZM/etc.)) OR that any single group is "all-inclusive" and complete and flawless by itself OR patronizing the opposing viewpoint(("stop your 'emotional' reactions...") is emotional and childish and certainly not logical.
This is all about not meeting each other HALFWAY!!
Fuck the system and fuck all movements,im an outlaw and will always be an outlaw,i have great understanding and its the only way to live in a fucked up world system.
it sounds to me like the venus project wants to pull out the SOPA card and copy write knowledge.... that's bullshit, the Zeitgeist movement will continue as planed and we will our end result one way or the other; in time
Ohhh gosh. My first 3 comments were about 10 minutes in. We don't like this direction, we don't want a third party, we don't like this direction, we want direct control, we don't like this direction, we, we, have a lot of things... I heard nothing specific. It was like listening to an automated message.
I am baffled to this day of what the hell just happened. It's taken me this long to finally find this video, only things I had heard up until this point was one sided videos from both ends of the spectrum. The two didn't match. I didn't know who to believe. I don't how much of this Roxanne is speaking for herself or her and him both, but she seems to be suggesting that TVP is the property of ownership of Jacque and her.
Jen said it best (sry if that's not her name, been a while) he never once cited his material. It's not like this stuff just materialized out of thin air. He knew where it came from. Wasn't it he that said we as individuals are the conditioning that has led us to this point and that we should show where our inspiration comes from?
You know what I think really happened? Things went too fast for them. Both of them. They felt like it was going over their heads and needed to leave
But why say not to relate to TVP? It doesn't make sense. It seems to go against their own message.
BTW my chapter has been dead for a long time. I'm only just now coming to grips with why. If the same has happened for you all I can say is, hopefully you've accumulated friends, knowledge, and experience for future activism under a different banner.
And I still feel that communists are more mature, they at least know how to deal with politics, aside from knowing exactly what is going to happen and when.
No one knew anything about the Venus Project before the Zeitgeist Movement came and showed the world what is the Venus Project. And I thought in a new world THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT bullshit. While I understand TVP wants to stay in control of their material, however they can realize NOTHING without first gaining control of some major government in this world. That's called politics.
It all comes down to the same thing: There is not such thing as "intellectual property". Ideas can't be stolen. Copying is not theft. This is just another pyramidal structure that loses control and wants to flame everything...
You waste space, your pathetic attempt to gain credibility among pseudointellectuals is nothing short of pathetic. Being passive isn't ALWAYS the answer and when dealing with people who reply to my well written comments with "DUR YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR SUCKING PETERS COCK", etc. I will reply to them in kind.
I made a comment, void of "shit talking" in the first place, then some little kid replied with some ignorant nonsense.
Now, did you want to fucking cry? It's the internet, bud.
- The bigotry Insertion of a page of short comments bearing empty and conflictive notions, in turn succumbing to your ego driven selfishness by marginalising the reflections and responses shown on the front page, which truly belongs to each viewer.
You might think due to her rich environment she would sound more than a broken lady gaga record when she just babbles the fuck on about egocentric bullshit..
HERES WHAT IT IS:
Roxanne is NOT blessed when it comes to physique or SEXUAL CONFIDENCE.
TOO MANY YEARS SPENT seeing satisfaction from shrivelled S cock is the problem.
This is why she is chasing her ego. GET IT? SHE CRAVES THE ATTENTION!!
@Neokarn I understand how you feel, but there's another video somewhere on YouTube that eventually reveals what actually transpired behind the scenes before Roxanne made her infamous confrontation with the Zeitgeist movement. She is Truly a beautiful and caring woman with a conviction to save humanity. She over and over advocated the Zeitgeist movement to Jacques, it was Jacques who made her speak on the TZM on his behalf because he disagreed on how Peter was spreading TVP.
@Neokarn I agree. But i have disagree a little with a term ego. I think its rather fear a reason. Fresco`s inventions was stolen long time ago, and i think when he saw how Z. started to grow stronger, more and more people started to join the ZM. He was scared because of bad things in his life. But Roxane worries me more, someone has to continue Fresco`s work, and i don`t think Roxane is a right person to do that. In her case i cant see ego, i can see only a woman who listen old scared man...
WE DO NOT NEED THE VENUS "DESIGNS", DONT NEED YOUR DRAWINGS, DONT NEED YOUR BLUEPRINTS. AND WE DONT NEED YOUR DRAMA. GET OUT OF YOUR DREAMY UTOPIA AND COME TO THE REAL WORLD, ITS A MESS. HUMANITY IS IN DEEP SUFFERING. OUR ECO SYSTEM IS BEING WIPED OUT FOR MONEY. WE DONT NEED A SPECIFIC DESIGN TO BUILD AN AUTOMATED HIDROPONIC FARM, POWERED BY RENEWABLE SOURCES, PRODUCING FOOD FOR THE PURPOSE OF FEEDING THE POPULATION AND NOT FOR PROFIT. WE DONT NEED YOUR UMBRELLA! UNITE AGAINST OUR COMMON ENEMY.
@flakeyF00nt I understand your point of view. I understand many people feel upset with these differences, but we need to learn a lot, we need to absorb as much information as we can in this stage, or else we will do it wrong. Jacque understands this very much, he is scared of what this culture is capable of doing with his ideas, we might twist them, we might harm ourselfs. Correct education and patience is the right approach, not haste my friend.
@waloacme@waloacme thank you sir I like your point of view. the way I see it, if you research on weapon systems and their usage (there are lots of horrifying footage of the war in iraq) you will see we are already living in the worst nightmare. We need sustainable technology, I do not see how things can go worse than they already are in regards to mis use of technology. but we agree about taking time and learning, again thank you very much, all the best to you.
its about power and control. you cant control a revolution! we are talking about the whole humanity, how many shapes and forms can this take? isn't it wonderful, this kind of variety? frankly I never liked TVP's drawings. way too unreal. the world is chaotic, I live in a 3rd world country, it's a real concrete jungle. cities are living things, there will never be circular and perfect cities. geography won't ever allow that! but what can be reality is an economy based on resources and well being!
I dont see the real problem here, sure egos get shaken, personal interest and viewpoints get in way, but I understand where Jacque and Roxanne are going with this. I also understand Peter Josephs work and importance. Both organizations are going to continue no matter what. Dont let emotions get in the way guys. Just work with all the events that arise from the hard hard work of putting these ideas out there. The way I see it, we are drowning in a glass of water regarding this subject.
You dumb cunt, no one would know ANYTHING about TVP if not for Peter and TZM!!!!!
DUMB!
They're too concerned about labels. I've seen this same thing happen OVER AND OVER, whenever it comes to people.
All Roxanne cares about is allegiance and loyalty, etc. She's an idiot and now watch TVP run into the ground. What a complete fool. That's why she's talking in such broad terms. She won't be specific, because she has scrupulous, naive motives.
Jacque and Roxanne should stop crying about getting credit.
Who cares if everyone knows Jacque had a hand in any of this? Do they think they will be making sculptures and sonnets of the single savior of the Earth??
That's why Peter is a much better advocate and spokesperson for this movement. He's very intelligent and understands ego and would probably give his life if it meant accomplishing these lofty goals.
Peter has always been this ENTIRE movement. Everyone else is just helping him.
And you're like twelve. Welcome to the world little kid. Tell us when your testicles stop resembling raisins and your voice drops to something lower than Michael Jackson level.
Hey, I happen to reside in the midwest as of now. Wanna meet and find out what happens? YAY!
You made a good point, though. I'm taking Peter's honesty over some dumb cunt's "NUH UHHH". I must be sucking his dick....... Totally.
Go back to your little gaming boards, or whatever little kids do.
Jacque is an old man. He relies too heavily on the people around him (Roxanne), who help him in his day to day life.
Peter is justified in his outrage. He's more interested in actually getting things done, where other people are more worried about temporal and menial motives.
Roxanne was worried that Peter wasn't simply "working for" them...........for free..........dumb, dumb, dumb person. How incredible selfish and wasteful.
I have to say, I kinda saw this coming. Listening to her speak.
This is not fucking rocket science, I think people know we need to fix the problems, the main thing is geting people to realize the problem, getting people to care about the problems and then getting people to realize the solutions to the problems that plague our planet! This is not something that peter of jauque had come up with, this is just the time for us all to make these changes not the title of a movement doesnt matter at all! lets move past this nonsense!
no shese right you all, honestly there needs to be money at use in the beginning to get the ball rolling, and there is nothing wrong with that to get the ideas out, I think peter is possibly a little angry as well that he was not included in the movie process! and roxanne got jealous becuase peter was taking some credit, this seems to be turning into the same childish bullshit that got the world the way it is now! lets all fix this problem quickly!
lol shese saying that no one else is allowed to come up with these ideas! sounds like its starting to become the system that they are supposedly against!
Why do all the ZTM still bow down to PJ when in actual fact, it should be the amazingly knowledgeable, talented and uniquely passionate Jacque Fresco? What has PJ actually done? Expose the "obvious" to millions? Jacque has the "Answers" NOT PJ! It should be Jacque and Roxanne who need the help to make this World a better place for everyone to live in; because what has PJ got to offer? "Wake-UP!" and give all your support to "The Venus Project" That's if you "Want" a better future?
The UTTER ARROGANCE of Roxanne and Jacque! So, what they're saying is NO ONE but Jacque(and his girlfriend) have the intelligence or capability of creating a better world? If they're so interested in creating a better world, why not work with others COOPERATIVELY to do it? It sounds a lot like what Peter has said. EGOS are at work. Jacque may be a visionary, but what has he done to start effecting change in the world until "Zeitgeist" came out? Why can't it be an EXCHANGE of ideas?
looks like divide and conquer has shown its face here. zeitgeist and venus project are one in the same. this bitch roxanne is the problem. just listen to what she is saying!!
the guy at 20mins has a point, people will be talking about TVP regardless of being affiliated with TVP or TZM, so wtf is wrong with that? It's memes, it's viral spreading of information, it's the ideas that matter, not brands, yeah. it's the 21st century. Deal with it, don't crave personal fucking recognition and glorifying, Roxanne.
@TheMajorMigraine i was actually asking which one, but whatever. let me ask you something else, does it give your life meaning, does it warrant your existence, does it make it significant, the "fact" that you are "fighting nwo"? people like you are not unlike people who fall under the influence of religions and other cults; have some fucking standards of evidence, be skeptical!
@Wh3tst0nE if you want to know why i am doing this, you would have to read my book. you can watch the videos on my channel but the story is not completed there, however my book is finished, and if you read my book you will also learn more than 10,000 words in either spanish, italian or french...
The reason that it hides from the media, is that the revolution is supposed to be very slow to grow so that it can be controlled. I am here with this book as a catalyst for the revolution so that they will lose some control, however even my message will not be an instant explosion because then there would be complete anarchy. The evolution of our existence has taken millions of years, billions, whatever, and this next leap WILL be instant, {{ but instant relative to billions of years... }}
@TheMajorMigraine If it NWO why does it hide from the main stream media? I've had the top post on occupyr for quite awhile now "Lets create a New Form of Government" and it's completely ignored.
"Don't use ower material..." (@ 22min 01sec) I was shure the message was more important than the messenger. Now, I'm confused, just like with my mother and father. Stop the contradictions, please! YOU PLANTED THE SEED for the best of all human kind. There is nothing to take back.
A Resource-Based Economy has no leaders, it embraces the ingenuity universally from all humans so that humans can best manage the resources of this earth based on what the earth can ecologically provide to humanity. But then, According to Roxanne, we must now limit this ingenuity to Jacques Fresco? This is quite contradictory to what they advocate!
IT'S TOO LATE ROXANNE and JACQUES! Your ideas of RBE economy are ALL AROUND THE WORLD!!! You planted the Seed! You cannot stop what has started anymore than the Grandchildren of Thomas Edison can stop people from using the Light Bulb! IT'S TOO LATE! IT HAS A LIFE OF IT'S OWN NOW!
this old man fresco maybe think he live for ever...and who the hell is this roxxane??? anyway i never like this project...they are many scientist with better ideas...
@zcorey2 I feel that sentiment dude. Ended up just like so many other examples of groups separating because some type personal conflicts, ego, stems right back to money, and credential-ism etc, and this is exactly what their FIGHTING against. even more reason why this current system has to stop, even the greatest people of change are still yanked back into beefing with each other.
It's sad that such a monumental idea that could change humanity and save it from it's own inherent downfalls is being fought over by factions of intellectuals like the old world use to fight over colonies.
Lets face it, The Venus Project is just a shittier name. Peter Joseph is the man! He promoted those fuckers! Peter gave them publicity. VP owes their recognition to Peter.
roxanne is a crazy dumb bitch who has warped jacque fresco's mind. Only the ideas are important. She wants the recognition. She fucked it all up. you can hear it in her voice. No one would have ever known about the VP if not for Zeitgeist. damn Roxanne, thanks a lot. Lets keep the ideas alive without labels!!
THE VENUS PROJECT is what this is about. If you support the venus project and want to join them, there is NOTHING stopping you. In fact you will have the opportunity to be more closely involved.
Peter Joseph is just a spokesperson.
Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows are problem solvers.
A lot of you Zeitgeist people just don't get it!!!!!!!!! it's not about you and your egos!!!!!
Roxanne even did say that if you have different ideas or anything of that sort then do go about them, they are not forcing you. Understand that she then proceeded to say that if you wanted to help TVP then work under the name, if you want to work under them and at the same time work under other groups go ahead. But TVP wants to keep under its own name to maintain its plan as close to itself as possible so that it works, after that its open for ideas and growth. You must start somewhere.
Now, i still do believe that TZM and TVP should talk to each other and discuss the differences as they have been doing, but dont get mad at either side for this, it is simply a growing phase of trying to protect the idea as closely as possible for it to succeed. If TVP does get pulled in every other direction and twisted which is a possibility then it has a lower chance of succeeded as itself, that is why Roxanne kept saying it has to stay under one umbrella. To keep the higher chance.
I feel that Roxanne kept saying what she was saying because she wanted to make it very clear that for this to succeed it needs to stay THE VENUS PROJECT. how are we supposed to change the world is it gets pulled and every other direction. People say that she is breaking everything the venus project stands for, no she disappointing your expectations, your not mad at her. They must strictly follow THE VENUS PROJECT's plan until it is implanted fully then allow other ideas to grow and exist.
Everybody complaining about Roxanne keeping the same answer for every question does not understand much of anything. You do not have to say different things to be more valid, she simply says the same things because that is simply what they want. Another thing, unfortunately we live in this world we have today and if you guys know anything about changing it you must stick to a plan.
She's a bit slow ay. Its not going to go anywhere without zeitgeist. Maybe zeitgeist are approaching change in too realistic of a manner for the "venus project"? Not drawing enough pretty pictures of vertical farms?
I Agree. I would have never heard about The Venus Project if it wasn't for Zeitgeist Addendum. Please people, don't be stupid. With attitudes like these both movements lose credibility. Like someone else said, this is not abaout a person, a movement, about credits... this is about spreading the idea of a better future based on a resource economy. Please, again, don't be stupid. Be mature about this matter, and do not dissapoing everyone who beleives in these ideas.
The second they split was the second it failed. If they can't arrive at decisions together without being aggressive towards one another caring about dumb stuff like credit or spotlight but not the message. Some waste of time and work right there! Many great ideas were there but I'd never wanna be a part of any of these two movements because of the ego brain game.
this ego tantrum will relegate TZM &TVP into history. The truth movement & anonymous now carry the freedom flags ... but for how long? The occupy movement is too diverse in people and visions, and yet one dimensional in just 'occupying'. We need action. Focussed effective action to bring about a specific purpose. Nobody is supplying that because no movement is both a leader of effective protest, or clear in its critique of the system. Lone off the wall ego's and diverse crowds.
a clash of personalities. I tend to lean toward Peter Joseph's position, Jaques Fresco is a brilliant man but his ego might be a bit to threatened by Zeitgeist's Joseph. Meanwhile Anonymous and the Occupy Movements has usurped the egos of Joseph and Fresco. And in my opinion that is a good thing.
TZM is like others movement, they want things, they understand things, but don't take more informations, ALL informations needed...U can't create a movement if you're not able to give them ALL the information they need to know...so yeah TZM is a failure, even if the idea was totally humble
im glad to help.. unfortunaly there's no online information confirming. but if you watch the video again, you will find many statements on roxanne speaking that prove her point. and there's a link too with jacque explaining more: "Jacque Fresco's Criticism of The Zeitgeist Movement".
I thought there was a relationship.. perhaps not a direct relationship.. but one that was in alignment with each organisations goals. TZM & TVP to me seemed to compliment each other. Yes.. I would like to know how...
@seanybyne1982 This Is How It Happened. According to peter joseph, the TZM still follows TVP making the relationship Between the two stable.Right? but the truth is that "Peter Joseph the creator of TZM" did not agree with everything about Venus Project. this way he refused to cooperate with TVP and wanted to make the film the way he sees it fit and help the venus project the way he want to help.(not in the way it has to be ).
@LuizPereira2 Peter helped to make The Venus Project more relatable to a whole new generation of people that Jacques and Roxanne would've never been able to reach on their own similar to how Steve Jobs of Apple help to bring the Mouse, Graphic User Interface, Ethernet, and Object Oriented Programming to the world from a few Obscure Palo Alto Scientists who very few people if ever will realize they even existed!
@seanybyne1982 In the movie Zeitgeist he just quoted a few things that was to his liking ignoring what Jacque Fresco. Then to solve this problem Jacque Fresco had to split. That's why Peter Joseph got so angry.
@LuizPereira2 Ok.. I see where you are coming from. Thanks for pointing this out. Can you reference anywhere online where this information is confirmed? Maybe a statement? thanks ;)
Peter Joseph courageously embodies the humanistic / scientific enlightenment of the 21 st century. He has grasped the very inner structrual contradictions of the CAPITALIST/MONETARY system and his revolutionary call for a WORLD OF COOPERATION FOR OUR COMMON NEEDS AND WELL BEING should be the CONSTITUTION OF NEW HUMANI CIVIILISATION. My deepest respect to my brother P.Joseph. in Zetgeist Time to make history democratically,consciously and globally
This upload, the responses and PJ's rant is a very good example of the scary behaviour of groups under a charismatic leader. Both PJ & JF avoid stating an obvious fact. "JF doesnt want to be associated with conspiracy nutters". What follows is blind loyalty to not mentioning this. PJ loses and JF loses if the obvious is stated. So for an entire hour of "debate" nobody mentions the obvious. They cry. They shake their heads and ask "why?" They repeat dead pan "join us".... loyal crowds are scary.
@feelthewyrd Thanks for that – it lets me know the limitations of TVP's grasp on reality. One can only go so far if you're living in a foreshortened version of the world. Pity, I had hopes for the TVP split creating focus. If any, they will get consumed by the machinations of global infrastructure and neutered to the control structure. Or they'll hide out in Mongolia and try to remake Samarkand. The latter is now their only hope.
<--Samir: "Your just gonna let them promote on our..." wtf are you? Get your head out of your ass. You are the one asking for answers, not JF. As a matter of fact, aside from VP, ZGM didn't provide a single solution to all the problems it pointed out. You can't just expect him to work for you guys now. If you think his movie will support your cause then fund him, build his support base. Just because he chooses to separate his opinions from yours doesn't mean you can't agree with him anymore.
ZGM is kidding right? Lemme get this straight...ZGM and Samir Idunohuthafuk are offended that JF doesn't want his life's work to be represented by a group with clearly separate interest than his. This is his LIFE'S WORK. I wouldn't put it in the hands of a group of overly opinionated conspiracy kids like you either. If you don't like his ideas then don't support him. It's that simple. You do understand that his life's work might fail just because your name is next to it right?
Your ALL brain washed who likes this idea. Yes the building designs are great and all but the fundamentals is EVIL! Its Basically WORLD COMMUNISM! Every one monitored, controlled and in part of the Network. Its NEW WORLD ORDER Slavery! With the population chipped and monitored, This reminds me, Terminator Movie and 666 In bible. When you are chipped and monitored its much easier for corrupt person to take control of you and eliminate you from the system if you resist. Fuck Venus Project!
this contradicts what jocque said in 1974, that he doesn't work for anybody etc...so then why should the people work for an organization, we are in the same page so we shouldn't label and put organizations in the way for evolution.
I've never heard of Venus Project before, and am not an active in any of Zeitgeist's activities. Even if Roxanne / VP has a postion from which to speak as they do here - it turned me off to VP. I wanted to send VP info to some friends, but am concerned that the project could come across in the wrong way to new people. Why any organization with a public project would put a stop on people looking to help promote them.. is mind numbing
uh.... because the venus project thinks that "911 is an inside job" is a load of tosh. They dont want to be associated with what they think are a load of conspiracy theorists under the banner of zeitgeist. Liken really simple! However both sides avoid saying so for different reasons.... hence hours of chat and tears and anger that never mentions the bleeding obvious.
VP & TZM are both avoiding a SIMPLE STATEMENT but for different reasons ie "Jacque Fresco thinks the 9/11 inside job theory is nonsense & has clearly said so!" JF has stopped saying this because he doesnt want to alienate a lot of support. Roxanne simple states "we dont address 911" to protect VP & JF from this. BUT Peter Joseph started with 911 as an inside job AND he wants TZM to be different to the truth movement. Hence PJ wants VP. Both VP & TZM avoid stating what JF believes re 911 pathetic
@somagh11 PJ is right. C'mon Venus...a $20-30 million dollar movie? At this juncture there is no way they can raise that kind of cash to risk on a movie's success. Not enough people have caught on to the Zeit yet. Maybe five more years and they can raise the money in a snap. Oh wait...Jacques will probably be dead by then - now I understand what's going on.
My opinion is that JF is practical and want to do something specifically because he
has no time to spend on teachings. But PJ is more oriented on wake up people and rise awareness,because he has time. Love them all, i hope that they will succee
TZM is more of a philosophical analysis of our current state...TVP is more of a scientific solution to our current state. they should go hand in hand and cooperate. pete's take is "well, why bicker over credit when this is bigger than both of our groups and more about humanity." jaque seems to both be concerned with pete's practical, technical knowledge of TVP's process, and people's view of TZM being a "cult" hurting investment prospects. he'd rather hands on engineers spearhead the direction.
BADDSANNAsays 2 days ago
"In order to attain liberation, it is not necessary to join any organization or religion because they are binding and limiting, holding you to a particular form of worship and belief. If you long for freedom, you will fight against authority of any kind, for authority is the antithesis of spirituality" - J. Krishnamurti
dmagwaza 2 days ago
lol any other scientist can't contribute to venus project because they were toughtin "traditional schools"? LOL first this woman is obviously stupid and second śhe is more interested in building a cult of personality around Jacque Fresco and boosting her ego in the process than actually trying to solve any problems.
Lius525 1 week ago 2
man this woman is incredibly passive agressive cunt, you can feel it from her voice how insincere she is.
Lius525 1 week ago 2
current level of human nature rearing its ugly head
maxknott 1 week ago
this is about as childish as a rock band or pop group that falls apart because the "lead singer" has "solo" project. Fucking selfish
VaudevilleRant 1 week ago
Incredibly stupid move.
krille898 2 weeks ago
Fact are facts -> RBE is from TVP, RBE is not from TZM. Any other organization loses the original information (similar to the game of telephone). Other organizations are unnecessary, since TVP is all-inclusive. When you advocate for an "RBE and TZM," people will not always get the original information before it is filtered through bias and projection. To be "most accurate," learn from the source if possible. TVP is here, so it is possible! Stop your emotional reactions please... use logic.
shawn11112 2 weeks ago 19
@shawn11112 I agree that TVP as an idea still has the same potential as it did before this but your extrapolation of this fact to the point that "Roxanne was right in screwing TZM/TVP needs no one else" is downright dysfunctional. No matter how brilliant, no idea and most importantly it's proponents should be viewed as 'complete' or flawless. This is dangerous for the idea and the domain where it is implemented...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@shawn11112 ...the problem of different names is a superficial excuse, its not about the label the group is working under, it is childish to say that if someone wears a TVP tag then only is he eligible to promote TVP...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@shawn11112 ... the real problem they(fresco and roxanne) had was that they wanted to be in the limelight and that required appearing as the sole custodians of TVP and this is the same attitude you are perpetuating here when you say "learn from TVP", that everyone should listen to just two persons, that *ONLY* Fresco and Roxane are capable of doing anything with TVP, no one else is capable of even *promoting* it. Fresco has himself said that no body can own an idea, all knowledge...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@Monu73796 This is a ridiculous statement. OK I challenge you to go learn calculus from a kindergarten teacher. This is a relevant comparison. I have been exposed strongly to these ideas and concepts for 3 years... you I would likely say less time... Jacque is 75 years - 35 of which is specific focus on TVP. It is not too crazy to assume he knows more on the topic than us. He is here, he is available... So instead of pointing people to random sources, why not point them to the actual source.
shawn11112 1 week ago
@shawn11112 Let me quote from TZM's FAQ: "It could be argued that all knowledge is serially developed through cultural and informational evolution and the concept of "Credit" and "Institutional Proprietary" becomes intellectually untenable in reality. This is not to say that those with expert authority are not to be favored in a situation that needs such merit in application But, on the data/reasoning level, information always stands on its own and endures its own logical scrutiny...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@shawn11112 ...and the messenger becomes unimportant." Extrapolating the idea of someone other than Fresco/Roxanne *POINTING* people to the TVP as a challenge to Fresco's technical merit further betrays paranoia and glory-fetish. Acc. to your logic calculus can only be known by Newton/Leibniz or to learn calculus one must work under them. Which is demonstrably false. The cornerstone of Fresco's ideas have always been the capacity of engg./scientific ideas to be distributed solely...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@shawn11112 ...through mathematical/logical language which is independent of personal opinions, to say that any scientific/architectural/engineering idea is understandable only by or through Fresco and not merely through abstracts and equations doesn't make sense. Further, Roxanne fails to give even a single instance where there actually has been dispute regarding *technicality* of any aspect of TVP from TZM. The implications of Fresco and Roxanne's attitudes in all this...
Monu73796 1 week ago
@Monu73796 has been very clear that no one but them is even worthy of of even *discussing* a given scientific idea, that if someone who is not intellectually subservient to them touches TVP it would inevitably get corrupted. 35 years or 350 years, it's fine if someone learns from Fresco, but to say that two minds by themselves are whole and infallible, goes against the very spirit of Fresco's ideas and of the scientific method itself and this is an explicitly demonstrable fact.
Monu73796 1 week ago
@shawn11112 ... is emergent and serially developed so to say that any other influence except Fresco and Roxanne, can only be corrupting due to "bias and projections" OR that an organisational label means anything((TVP/TZM/etc.)) OR that any single group is "all-inclusive" and complete and flawless by itself OR patronizing the opposing viewpoint(("stop your 'emotional' reactions...") is emotional and childish and certainly not logical.
Monu73796 1 week ago
The Z movies, the Z Movement and the Venus Project can be independent from each other and still cooperate big time. I'm counting on that!
SamNaColonia 3 weeks ago
Why personal Freudian attacks on Roxanne? I dont necesserilly agree, but come on, we are all on the same side.
metters4lyf 3 weeks ago 7
At the end all organizations are the same and fall for the same reasons, shame :(
trinitaterion 1 month ago
This is all about not meeting each other HALFWAY!!
Fuck the system and fuck all movements,im an outlaw and will always be an outlaw,i have great understanding and its the only way to live in a fucked up world system.
HyPeRtRaXps3 1 month ago
it sounds to me like the venus project wants to pull out the SOPA card and copy write knowledge.... that's bullshit, the Zeitgeist movement will continue as planed and we will our end result one way or the other; in time
SoldierCyfix 1 month ago
Ohhh gosh. My first 3 comments were about 10 minutes in. We don't like this direction, we don't want a third party, we don't like this direction, we want direct control, we don't like this direction, we, we, have a lot of things... I heard nothing specific. It was like listening to an automated message.
bansheeownz 1 month ago
I am baffled to this day of what the hell just happened. It's taken me this long to finally find this video, only things I had heard up until this point was one sided videos from both ends of the spectrum. The two didn't match. I didn't know who to believe. I don't how much of this Roxanne is speaking for herself or her and him both, but she seems to be suggesting that TVP is the property of ownership of Jacque and her.
bansheeownz 1 month ago
@bansheeownz
Jen said it best (sry if that's not her name, been a while) he never once cited his material. It's not like this stuff just materialized out of thin air. He knew where it came from. Wasn't it he that said we as individuals are the conditioning that has led us to this point and that we should show where our inspiration comes from?
You know what I think really happened? Things went too fast for them. Both of them. They felt like it was going over their heads and needed to leave
bansheeownz 1 month ago
@bansheeownz
But why say not to relate to TVP? It doesn't make sense. It seems to go against their own message.
BTW my chapter has been dead for a long time. I'm only just now coming to grips with why. If the same has happened for you all I can say is, hopefully you've accumulated friends, knowledge, and experience for future activism under a different banner.
bansheeownz 1 month ago
Ego, ego, ego!!! Let it go!!! The message is out there and belongs to no one and everyone....
Labels don't matter anymore. We are all one.
crispin1964 1 month ago
And I still feel that communists are more mature, they at least know how to deal with politics, aside from knowing exactly what is going to happen and when.
CanadianByAccident 1 month ago
No one knew anything about the Venus Project before the Zeitgeist Movement came and showed the world what is the Venus Project. And I thought in a new world THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT bullshit. While I understand TVP wants to stay in control of their material, however they can realize NOTHING without first gaining control of some major government in this world. That's called politics.
CanadianByAccident 1 month ago
Yoko
ProofPlains 1 month ago 2
It all comes down to the same thing: There is not such thing as "intellectual property". Ideas can't be stolen. Copying is not theft. This is just another pyramidal structure that loses control and wants to flame everything...
Samsagax 1 month ago 6
Would you both gain maturity please.
You Waste Space.
Keep the comments pertinent to the video.
@niginit
If you not an internet aggro 12 yr old yourself you would not drop to his level with your response.
You provide ammo and hence an excuse for perpetual shit talking.
Please respect the viewer.
Respond with relevant information.
Neokarn 1 month ago
@Neokarn
You waste space, your pathetic attempt to gain credibility among pseudointellectuals is nothing short of pathetic. Being passive isn't ALWAYS the answer and when dealing with people who reply to my well written comments with "DUR YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR SUCKING PETERS COCK", etc. I will reply to them in kind.
I made a comment, void of "shit talking" in the first place, then some little kid replied with some ignorant nonsense.
Now, did you want to fucking cry? It's the internet, bud.
niginit 4 weeks ago 2
Trouble in Paradise?
intentlr2004 1 month ago
And then reflect upon:
- The bigotry Insertion of a page of short comments bearing empty and conflictive notions, in turn succumbing to your ego driven selfishness by marginalising the reflections and responses shown on the front page, which truly belongs to each viewer.
P.S: Pull your head in, you speak of excess.
Neokarn 1 month ago 5
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Neokarn 1 month ago
I am thoroughly enraged with this woman.
You might think due to her rich environment she would sound more than a broken lady gaga record when she just babbles the fuck on about egocentric bullshit..
HERES WHAT IT IS:
Roxanne is NOT blessed when it comes to physique or SEXUAL CONFIDENCE.
TOO MANY YEARS SPENT seeing satisfaction from shrivelled S cock is the problem.
This is why she is chasing her ego. GET IT? SHE CRAVES THE ATTENTION!!
WAKE UP People. the INTERNAL ENEMY COMES FIRST.
Neokarn 1 month ago 5
@Neokarn Lmao "shriveled cock"? Is this how intelligent you are? We are products of our enviroment. We are victims of culture.
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
@TheMidwestsk8ter
ok.
Adress:
- The current issue of egomaniacal hysteria and sexual introversion.
- The obsession with control with respect to isolationist direction.
- The perpetual and repetitious jargon, ever persistently blabbered from her mouth which reveals these points.
Then you may:
- Confront the Metaphysical: Intelligence.
Neokarn 1 month ago 5
@Neokarn I understand how you feel, but there's another video somewhere on YouTube that eventually reveals what actually transpired behind the scenes before Roxanne made her infamous confrontation with the Zeitgeist movement. She is Truly a beautiful and caring woman with a conviction to save humanity. She over and over advocated the Zeitgeist movement to Jacques, it was Jacques who made her speak on the TZM on his behalf because he disagreed on how Peter was spreading TVP.
EasternMerchant 1 month ago
@Neokarn I agree. But i have disagree a little with a term ego. I think its rather fear a reason. Fresco`s inventions was stolen long time ago, and i think when he saw how Z. started to grow stronger, more and more people started to join the ZM. He was scared because of bad things in his life. But Roxane worries me more, someone has to continue Fresco`s work, and i don`t think Roxane is a right person to do that. In her case i cant see ego, i can see only a woman who listen old scared man...
Arsa1986 1 month ago
WE DO NOT NEED THE VENUS "DESIGNS", DONT NEED YOUR DRAWINGS, DONT NEED YOUR BLUEPRINTS. AND WE DONT NEED YOUR DRAMA. GET OUT OF YOUR DREAMY UTOPIA AND COME TO THE REAL WORLD, ITS A MESS. HUMANITY IS IN DEEP SUFFERING. OUR ECO SYSTEM IS BEING WIPED OUT FOR MONEY. WE DONT NEED A SPECIFIC DESIGN TO BUILD AN AUTOMATED HIDROPONIC FARM, POWERED BY RENEWABLE SOURCES, PRODUCING FOOD FOR THE PURPOSE OF FEEDING THE POPULATION AND NOT FOR PROFIT. WE DONT NEED YOUR UMBRELLA! UNITE AGAINST OUR COMMON ENEMY.
flakeyF00nt 1 month ago
@flakeyF00nt I understand your point of view. I understand many people feel upset with these differences, but we need to learn a lot, we need to absorb as much information as we can in this stage, or else we will do it wrong. Jacque understands this very much, he is scared of what this culture is capable of doing with his ideas, we might twist them, we might harm ourselfs. Correct education and patience is the right approach, not haste my friend.
waloacme 1 month ago
@waloacme @waloacme thank you sir I like your point of view. the way I see it, if you research on weapon systems and their usage (there are lots of horrifying footage of the war in iraq) you will see we are already living in the worst nightmare. We need sustainable technology, I do not see how things can go worse than they already are in regards to mis use of technology. but we agree about taking time and learning, again thank you very much, all the best to you.
flakeyF00nt 1 month ago
its about power and control. you cant control a revolution! we are talking about the whole humanity, how many shapes and forms can this take? isn't it wonderful, this kind of variety? frankly I never liked TVP's drawings. way too unreal. the world is chaotic, I live in a 3rd world country, it's a real concrete jungle. cities are living things, there will never be circular and perfect cities. geography won't ever allow that! but what can be reality is an economy based on resources and well being!
flakeyF00nt 1 month ago
I dont see the real problem here, sure egos get shaken, personal interest and viewpoints get in way, but I understand where Jacque and Roxanne are going with this. I also understand Peter Josephs work and importance. Both organizations are going to continue no matter what. Dont let emotions get in the way guys. Just work with all the events that arise from the hard hard work of putting these ideas out there. The way I see it, we are drowning in a glass of water regarding this subject.
waloacme 1 month ago
roxanne: blah blah blah.... I never ever heard anything interesting in her mouth...she just speaks to hear herself speaking ...
jacques: .. has done his part, let him have some rest now
Peter Joseph has realised amazing movies, presenting to the world evident fraud or our society, we should all thak him and help him ...
and please shut up this woman, everything she says is blah blah blah
astralseeker 1 month ago
since day one i've said the analysis of zeitgeist movies are fine but the venus project is not the solution
astralseeker 1 month ago
@astralseeker There both working towards the same thing you moron..
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
Before TZM runs into the ground????????
You dumb cunt, no one would know ANYTHING about TVP if not for Peter and TZM!!!!!
DUMB!
They're too concerned about labels. I've seen this same thing happen OVER AND OVER, whenever it comes to people.
All Roxanne cares about is allegiance and loyalty, etc. She's an idiot and now watch TVP run into the ground. What a complete fool. That's why she's talking in such broad terms. She won't be specific, because she has scrupulous, naive motives.
niginit 2 months ago
Jacque and Roxanne should stop crying about getting credit.
Who cares if everyone knows Jacque had a hand in any of this? Do they think they will be making sculptures and sonnets of the single savior of the Earth??
That's why Peter is a much better advocate and spokesperson for this movement. He's very intelligent and understands ego and would probably give his life if it meant accomplishing these lofty goals.
Peter has always been this ENTIRE movement. Everyone else is just helping him.
niginit 2 months ago
@niginit Sounds like your sucking peters cock does it taste good?
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
@TheMidwestsk8ter
And you're like twelve. Welcome to the world little kid. Tell us when your testicles stop resembling raisins and your voice drops to something lower than Michael Jackson level.
Hey, I happen to reside in the midwest as of now. Wanna meet and find out what happens? YAY!
You made a good point, though. I'm taking Peter's honesty over some dumb cunt's "NUH UHHH". I must be sucking his dick....... Totally.
Go back to your little gaming boards, or whatever little kids do.
niginit 1 month ago
Jacque is an old man. He relies too heavily on the people around him (Roxanne), who help him in his day to day life.
Peter is justified in his outrage. He's more interested in actually getting things done, where other people are more worried about temporal and menial motives.
Roxanne was worried that Peter wasn't simply "working for" them...........for free..........dumb, dumb, dumb person. How incredible selfish and wasteful.
I have to say, I kinda saw this coming. Listening to her speak.
niginit 2 months ago
@niginit "relies to heavily" hes 95 years old shut the fuck up kid..
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
@TheMidwestsk8ter
Did you want to cry now?
Sounds like you're sucking Jacque's dick. Does it taste good little faggot?
niginit 1 month ago
@niginit Lol theres no way your with the zeitgeist movenment! Telling by your reponse your not intelligent enough.
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
roxanne is fucking pathetic, like a little child...total ego bullshit
Ondal2 2 months ago
Well good luck with all this...total Venus fail. I'm going to use my time searching for ideas that actually might work.
Waste your time if you want but I'm telling you this whole philosophy is flat and finished before it even got started.
Jblod240 2 months ago
This is not fucking rocket science, I think people know we need to fix the problems, the main thing is geting people to realize the problem, getting people to care about the problems and then getting people to realize the solutions to the problems that plague our planet! This is not something that peter of jauque had come up with, this is just the time for us all to make these changes not the title of a movement doesnt matter at all! lets move past this nonsense!
TerminalEternal 2 months ago
no shese right you all, honestly there needs to be money at use in the beginning to get the ball rolling, and there is nothing wrong with that to get the ideas out, I think peter is possibly a little angry as well that he was not included in the movie process! and roxanne got jealous becuase peter was taking some credit, this seems to be turning into the same childish bullshit that got the world the way it is now! lets all fix this problem quickly!
TerminalEternal 2 months ago
lol shese saying that no one else is allowed to come up with these ideas! sounds like its starting to become the system that they are supposedly against!
TerminalEternal 2 months ago
this is a test
powerplayer1000 2 months ago
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Why do all the ZTM still bow down to PJ when in actual fact, it should be the amazingly knowledgeable, talented and uniquely passionate Jacque Fresco? What has PJ actually done? Expose the "obvious" to millions? Jacque has the "Answers" NOT PJ! It should be Jacque and Roxanne who need the help to make this World a better place for everyone to live in; because what has PJ got to offer? "Wake-UP!" and give all your support to "The Venus Project" That's if you "Want" a better future?
einrib4truth 2 months ago
The UTTER ARROGANCE of Roxanne and Jacque! So, what they're saying is NO ONE but Jacque(and his girlfriend) have the intelligence or capability of creating a better world? If they're so interested in creating a better world, why not work with others COOPERATIVELY to do it? It sounds a lot like what Peter has said. EGOS are at work. Jacque may be a visionary, but what has he done to start effecting change in the world until "Zeitgeist" came out? Why can't it be an EXCHANGE of ideas?
DARKLYLIT 2 months ago 2
looks like divide and conquer has shown its face here. zeitgeist and venus project are one in the same. this bitch roxanne is the problem. just listen to what she is saying!!
miguelquintanajr 2 months ago
the guy at 20mins has a point, people will be talking about TVP regardless of being affiliated with TVP or TZM, so wtf is wrong with that? It's memes, it's viral spreading of information, it's the ideas that matter, not brands, yeah. it's the 21st century. Deal with it, don't crave personal fucking recognition and glorifying, Roxanne.
Wh3tst0nE 2 months ago
I love how this guy is saying that I am someone who would join a cult, and yet he is the one defending the Venus Project...
TheMajorMigraine 2 months ago
@Wh3tst0nE you got it
TheMajorMigraine 2 months ago
@TheMajorMigraine i was actually asking which one, but whatever. let me ask you something else, does it give your life meaning, does it warrant your existence, does it make it significant, the "fact" that you are "fighting nwo"? people like you are not unlike people who fall under the influence of religions and other cults; have some fucking standards of evidence, be skeptical!
Wh3tst0nE 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Wh3tst0nE if you want to know why i am doing this, you would have to read my book. you can watch the videos on my channel but the story is not completed there, however my book is finished, and if you read my book you will also learn more than 10,000 words in either spanish, italian or french...
dubyadubyadubyadot MajorMigraine dotcom
TheMajorMigraine 2 months ago
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TheMajorMigraine 2 months ago
The reason that it hides from the media, is that the revolution is supposed to be very slow to grow so that it can be controlled. I am here with this book as a catalyst for the revolution so that they will lose some control, however even my message will not be an instant explosion because then there would be complete anarchy. The evolution of our existence has taken millions of years, billions, whatever, and this next leap WILL be instant, {{ but instant relative to billions of years... }}
TheMajorMigraine 2 months ago
@TheMajorMigraine If it NWO why does it hide from the main stream media? I've had the top post on occupyr for quite awhile now "Lets create a New Form of Government" and it's completely ignored.
zzaaak 2 months ago
"Don't use ower material..." (@ 22min 01sec) I was shure the message was more important than the messenger. Now, I'm confused, just like with my mother and father. Stop the contradictions, please! YOU PLANTED THE SEED for the best of all human kind. There is nothing to take back.
PATYERETS 2 months ago
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PATYERETS 2 months ago
A Resource-Based Economy has no leaders, it embraces the ingenuity universally from all humans so that humans can best manage the resources of this earth based on what the earth can ecologically provide to humanity. But then, According to Roxanne, we must now limit this ingenuity to Jacques Fresco? This is quite contradictory to what they advocate!
EasternMerchant 2 months ago 2
IT'S TOO LATE ROXANNE and JACQUES! Your ideas of RBE economy are ALL AROUND THE WORLD!!! You planted the Seed! You cannot stop what has started anymore than the Grandchildren of Thomas Edison can stop people from using the Light Bulb! IT'S TOO LATE! IT HAS A LIFE OF IT'S OWN NOW!
EasternMerchant 2 months ago 3
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EasternMerchant 2 months ago
this old man fresco maybe think he live for ever...and who the hell is this roxxane??? anyway i never like this project...they are many scientist with better ideas...
hooch380 3 months ago
@hooch380 Learn to spell.
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
It does sound like an ego argument
briperez 3 months ago 2
Grow up, you two have caused damage to both the Zeitgeist movement and the Venus Project.
MrMickey2000 3 months ago
Roxanne wouldve been a bad politician.
Nosferatu9981 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Drop the Venus Project, drop The Zeitgeist Movement and just practice permaculture.
TheCatfishClayton 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Our own sites en masse. Ripple Effect
Austrian Economics: Google:
MyName4Freedom OurName4Freedom.ws YourName4Freedom
DanHall4RonPaul 3 months ago
I want to listen to Jacque Fresco, with Roxanne in a different room
zcorey2 3 months ago
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zcorey2 3 months ago
The one place i could turn to for no drama was Zeitgiest movement and the Venus Project.
What.
The.
Fuck.
zcorey2 3 months ago 4
@zcorey2 I feel that sentiment dude. Ended up just like so many other examples of groups separating because some type personal conflicts, ego, stems right back to money, and credential-ism etc, and this is exactly what their FIGHTING against. even more reason why this current system has to stop, even the greatest people of change are still yanked back into beefing with each other.
MidKnightBlaze 3 months ago
@MidKnightBlaze change must start within yourself.
zcorey2 3 months ago
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zcorey2 3 months ago
Roxanne is not making sense and she is avoiding the question...
Why does Roxanne want complete say over the "direction" if the message is true, the truth speaks for itself.
I personally think that both venus and zeitgeist bring interesting points and so does Freedomain Radio Molyneux but they all have faults as well
The only way to solve these faults is further communication and discussion not separation!!! separation leads to conflict and chaos
nameoffeather 3 months ago 4
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nameoffeather 3 months ago
It's sad that such a monumental idea that could change humanity and save it from it's own inherent downfalls is being fought over by factions of intellectuals like the old world use to fight over colonies.
mcmilligan88 3 months ago 5
No one would have ever known about the VP if not for Zeitgeist.
storeusal 3 months ago
this was doomed from beginning,its always about the benji's mf
qqaaaqqq 3 months ago
Lets face it, The Venus Project is just a shittier name. Peter Joseph is the man! He promoted those fuckers! Peter gave them publicity. VP owes their recognition to Peter.
costondickinson 3 months ago
@costondickinson Really? Take your ego to the back, and look again at the ideas. It doesn't matter what aesthetics they come as.
mcmilligan88 3 months ago
roxanne is a crazy dumb bitch who has warped jacque fresco's mind. Only the ideas are important. She wants the recognition. She fucked it all up. you can hear it in her voice. No one would have ever known about the VP if not for Zeitgeist. damn Roxanne, thanks a lot. Lets keep the ideas alive without labels!!
costondickinson 3 months ago 10
why is this turning it into an immature argument.
THE VENUS PROJECT is what this is about. If you support the venus project and want to join them, there is NOTHING stopping you. In fact you will have the opportunity to be more closely involved.
Peter Joseph is just a spokesperson.
Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows are problem solvers.
A lot of you Zeitgeist people just don't get it!!!!!!!!! it's not about you and your egos!!!!!
DRETUBE9 3 months ago
Im just glad that I that I learned as much as I could from the Zeitgeist movement and the Venus Project. It doesnt really matter if they split.
apacheslim 3 months ago 4
this split is about power thats what really disturbs me..
micap20078 3 months ago
they shouldnt bickering i thought the point of these movement was to bridge the gaps and set and example
micap20078 3 months ago 5
Roxanne even did say that if you have different ideas or anything of that sort then do go about them, they are not forcing you. Understand that she then proceeded to say that if you wanted to help TVP then work under the name, if you want to work under them and at the same time work under other groups go ahead. But TVP wants to keep under its own name to maintain its plan as close to itself as possible so that it works, after that its open for ideas and growth. You must start somewhere.
HadearM6 3 months ago
Now, i still do believe that TZM and TVP should talk to each other and discuss the differences as they have been doing, but dont get mad at either side for this, it is simply a growing phase of trying to protect the idea as closely as possible for it to succeed. If TVP does get pulled in every other direction and twisted which is a possibility then it has a lower chance of succeeded as itself, that is why Roxanne kept saying it has to stay under one umbrella. To keep the higher chance.
HadearM6 3 months ago
I feel that Roxanne kept saying what she was saying because she wanted to make it very clear that for this to succeed it needs to stay THE VENUS PROJECT. how are we supposed to change the world is it gets pulled and every other direction. People say that she is breaking everything the venus project stands for, no she disappointing your expectations, your not mad at her. They must strictly follow THE VENUS PROJECT's plan until it is implanted fully then allow other ideas to grow and exist.
HadearM6 3 months ago
Everybody complaining about Roxanne keeping the same answer for every question does not understand much of anything. You do not have to say different things to be more valid, she simply says the same things because that is simply what they want. Another thing, unfortunately we live in this world we have today and if you guys know anything about changing it you must stick to a plan.
HadearM6 3 months ago
She's a bit slow ay. Its not going to go anywhere without zeitgeist. Maybe zeitgeist are approaching change in too realistic of a manner for the "venus project"? Not drawing enough pretty pictures of vertical farms?
meker123 3 months ago
@meker123 Your an idiot. Those pretty pictures are technical designs.
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
Roxanne the dictator? yeap! I think I heard someone that women, when they are with a man, cannot play the second role in anything whatsoever.
kvlo1986 3 months ago
This is so sad.... :(
Stianfred 3 months ago
@Stianfred Yeah but what can we do it.... its just human nature ;)
axe863 3 months ago
I Agree. I would have never heard about The Venus Project if it wasn't for Zeitgeist Addendum. Please people, don't be stupid. With attitudes like these both movements lose credibility. Like someone else said, this is not abaout a person, a movement, about credits... this is about spreading the idea of a better future based on a resource economy. Please, again, don't be stupid. Be mature about this matter, and do not dissapoing everyone who beleives in these ideas.
giancarlo3000 3 months ago
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giancarlo3000 3 months ago
also why do you need TZM if you promote TVP? i dont get it ... if i want to promote pepsi i will not call myself differently?
supahacka 3 months ago
well why was there no interview with fresco in the last movie?
supahacka 3 months ago
There is no reason for not supporting each other. What happens with the messages of the Zeitgeist movies?
ledjorge 3 months ago
is she just stupid..? i really dont get this so-called 'split' at all.
phased112 3 months ago
The second they split was the second it failed. If they can't arrive at decisions together without being aggressive towards one another caring about dumb stuff like credit or spotlight but not the message. Some waste of time and work right there! Many great ideas were there but I'd never wanna be a part of any of these two movements because of the ego brain game.
Breedo 3 months ago
In the end the idea is what's relevant, not the messenger
AxeManAnthony 3 months ago 26
16:29 new massage :)
Funtasmia 4 months ago
this ego tantrum will relegate TZM &TVP into history. The truth movement & anonymous now carry the freedom flags ... but for how long? The occupy movement is too diverse in people and visions, and yet one dimensional in just 'occupying'. We need action. Focussed effective action to bring about a specific purpose. Nobody is supplying that because no movement is both a leader of effective protest, or clear in its critique of the system. Lone off the wall ego's and diverse crowds.
feelthewyrd 4 months ago
she is not snitching him out
KingCanobeatbox 4 months ago
come on we are not dumb that movie had sounds that were manipulating pearl before slime
KingCanobeatbox 4 months ago
a clash of personalities. I tend to lean toward Peter Joseph's position, Jaques Fresco is a brilliant man but his ego might be a bit to threatened by Zeitgeist's Joseph. Meanwhile Anonymous and the Occupy Movements has usurped the egos of Joseph and Fresco. And in my opinion that is a good thing.
PatheticHero 4 months ago
TZM is like others movement, they want things, they understand things, but don't take more informations, ALL informations needed...U can't create a movement if you're not able to give them ALL the information they need to know...so yeah TZM is a failure, even if the idea was totally humble
Fodeskaraio 4 months ago
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Fodeskaraio 4 months ago
the archon divide and conquer method somehow still manages to take some of the most open eyes off the ball - no Peter Joseph I'm not referring to you
OWLEGGS 4 months ago 4
im glad to help.. unfortunaly there's no online information confirming. but if you watch the video again, you will find many statements on roxanne speaking that prove her point. and there's a link too with jacque explaining more: "Jacque Fresco's Criticism of The Zeitgeist Movement".
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
TZM acknowledge that are working in the direction of TVP. But is this really? by showing the face of Jacque Fresco! This is a great hypocrisy
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
jes... I am just sad that this has happened... has there been any updates on how the relationship is now?
seanybyne1982 4 months ago
@seanybyne1982 still the same. i dont see why so sad. We dont really need peter joseph. we dont need lawyers!
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
@LuizPereira2
i'm sorry... I dont understand what you are saying? I'm sad because I really did not see this relationship dissolving like this....
seanybyne1982 4 months ago
@seanybyne1982 what i want to say is... There is no relationship to begin with! unfortunely roxanne was right.but do you want to know how?
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
@LuizPereira2
I thought there was a relationship.. perhaps not a direct relationship.. but one that was in alignment with each organisations goals. TZM & TVP to me seemed to compliment each other. Yes.. I would like to know how...
seanybyne1982 4 months ago
@seanybyne1982 This Is How It Happened. According to peter joseph, the TZM still follows TVP making the relationship Between the two stable.Right? but the truth is that "Peter Joseph the creator of TZM" did not agree with everything about Venus Project. this way he refused to cooperate with TVP and wanted to make the film the way he sees it fit and help the venus project the way he want to help.(not in the way it has to be ).
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
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EasternMerchant 2 months ago
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EasternMerchant 2 months ago
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EasternMerchant 2 months ago
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@LuizPereira2 Peter helped to make The Venus Project more relatable to a whole new generation of people that Jacques and Roxanne would've never been able to reach on their own similar to how Steve Jobs of Apple help to bring the Mouse, Graphic User Interface, Ethernet, and Object Oriented Programming to the world from a few Obscure Palo Alto Scientists who very few people if ever will realize they even existed!
EasternMerchant 2 months ago
@seanybyne1982 In the movie Zeitgeist he just quoted a few things that was to his liking ignoring what Jacque Fresco. Then to solve this problem Jacque Fresco had to split. That's why Peter Joseph got so angry.
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
@LuizPereira2
ah ok... I see.. so it was PJ that unsettled things... right? Wanting things to work out his way? Is that what you are saying?
seanybyne1982 4 months ago
@seanybyne1982 exactly. you got it! ^^ he means well but unfortunaly he doesn't know much about contruction,engineering, social designs.
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
@LuizPereira2 Ok.. I see where you are coming from. Thanks for pointing this out. Can you reference anywhere online where this information is confirmed? Maybe a statement? thanks ;)
seanybyne1982 4 months ago
Even though roxanne can't explain things like a lawyer! she made sense to me.
i know all members from TZM mean well.
Venus project hurray!
LuizPereira2 4 months ago
@LuizPereira2 Learn to spell.
TheMidwestsk8ter 1 month ago
THE VENUS PROJECT WILL COME!
pablocontreras708 4 months ago
I ve never heard about Venus Project till I watched Zeitgeist
sanmarina84 4 months ago 27
If I am forced to choose ... I choose The Zeitgeist Movement. They have the interest of educating the people, not just the "ism".
Lindahobbs64 4 months ago 4
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Peter Joseph courageously embodies the humanistic / scientific enlightenment of the 21 st century. He has grasped the very inner structrual contradictions of the CAPITALIST/MONETARY system and his revolutionary call for a WORLD OF COOPERATION FOR OUR COMMON NEEDS AND WELL BEING should be the CONSTITUTION OF NEW HUMANI CIVIILISATION. My deepest respect to my brother P.Joseph. in Zetgeist Time to make history democratically,consciously and globally
arzoyan 4 months ago
This upload, the responses and PJ's rant is a very good example of the scary behaviour of groups under a charismatic leader. Both PJ & JF avoid stating an obvious fact. "JF doesnt want to be associated with conspiracy nutters". What follows is blind loyalty to not mentioning this. PJ loses and JF loses if the obvious is stated. So for an entire hour of "debate" nobody mentions the obvious. They cry. They shake their heads and ask "why?" They repeat dead pan "join us".... loyal crowds are scary.
feelthewyrd 4 months ago
@feelthewyrd Thanks for that – it lets me know the limitations of TVP's grasp on reality. One can only go so far if you're living in a foreshortened version of the world. Pity, I had hopes for the TVP split creating focus. If any, they will get consumed by the machinations of global infrastructure and neutered to the control structure. Or they'll hide out in Mongolia and try to remake Samarkand. The latter is now their only hope.
KeystoneFlow 4 months ago
Zeitgeist is just a name of the group what really matter is the OBJECTIVES. what we want to be that is important ...
krlosBen 4 months ago
<--Samir: "Your just gonna let them promote on our..." wtf are you? Get your head out of your ass. You are the one asking for answers, not JF. As a matter of fact, aside from VP, ZGM didn't provide a single solution to all the problems it pointed out. You can't just expect him to work for you guys now. If you think his movie will support your cause then fund him, build his support base. Just because he chooses to separate his opinions from yours doesn't mean you can't agree with him anymore.
Kratos89115 4 months ago
ZGM is kidding right? Lemme get this straight...ZGM and Samir Idunohuthafuk are offended that JF doesn't want his life's work to be represented by a group with clearly separate interest than his. This is his LIFE'S WORK. I wouldn't put it in the hands of a group of overly opinionated conspiracy kids like you either. If you don't like his ideas then don't support him. It's that simple. You do understand that his life's work might fail just because your name is next to it right?
Kratos89115 4 months ago
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Your ALL brain washed who likes this idea. Yes the building designs are great and all but the fundamentals is EVIL! Its Basically WORLD COMMUNISM! Every one monitored, controlled and in part of the Network. Its NEW WORLD ORDER Slavery! With the population chipped and monitored, This reminds me, Terminator Movie and 666 In bible. When you are chipped and monitored its much easier for corrupt person to take control of you and eliminate you from the system if you resist. Fuck Venus Project!
YouTheory 4 months ago
this contradicts what jocque said in 1974, that he doesn't work for anybody etc...so then why should the people work for an organization, we are in the same page so we shouldn't label and put organizations in the way for evolution.
yourfellowman1 4 months ago
i agree, you can't separate the people....we all want the same thing in the end so let's do it together.
yourfellowman1 4 months ago
I've never heard of Venus Project before, and am not an active in any of Zeitgeist's activities. Even if Roxanne / VP has a postion from which to speak as they do here - it turned me off to VP. I wanted to send VP info to some friends, but am concerned that the project could come across in the wrong way to new people. Why any organization with a public project would put a stop on people looking to help promote them.. is mind numbing
KeystoneFlow 4 months ago
@KeystoneFlow
uh.... because the venus project thinks that "911 is an inside job" is a load of tosh. They dont want to be associated with what they think are a load of conspiracy theorists under the banner of zeitgeist. Liken really simple! However both sides avoid saying so for different reasons.... hence hours of chat and tears and anger that never mentions the bleeding obvious.
feelthewyrd 4 months ago
VP & TZM are both avoiding a SIMPLE STATEMENT but for different reasons ie "Jacque Fresco thinks the 9/11 inside job theory is nonsense & has clearly said so!" JF has stopped saying this because he doesnt want to alienate a lot of support. Roxanne simple states "we dont address 911" to protect VP & JF from this. BUT Peter Joseph started with 911 as an inside job AND he wants TZM to be different to the truth movement. Hence PJ wants VP. Both VP & TZM avoid stating what JF believes re 911 pathetic
feelthewyrd 4 months ago
I couldnt believe this when I first saw it posted on facebook.
Was there really no room for adjustments if TVP felt it was slipping out of control?
If TVP and TZM cant co-operate then what the hell have we been promoting?
somagh11 4 months ago
@somagh11 PJ is right. C'mon Venus...a $20-30 million dollar movie? At this juncture there is no way they can raise that kind of cash to risk on a movie's success. Not enough people have caught on to the Zeit yet. Maybe five more years and they can raise the money in a snap. Oh wait...Jacques will probably be dead by then - now I understand what's going on.
CribNotes 4 months ago
My opinion is that JF is practical and want to do something specifically because he
has no time to spend on teachings. But PJ is more oriented on wake up people and rise awareness,because he has time. Love them all, i hope that they will succee