I dont think any kinda comparison can be based on complexities of 2 different kind classical music...Indian music might have so many horizontal possibilities (Melody) as its use of intricate ragaas but Western is more complex vertically (harmonies) as there are endless possibilities of harmonic relations and progressions
Beg to differ...the scale divided in to 12 equidistant parts is true only in terms of the piano tuning which is called the equal temperament. There are various other tuning systems used in western classical. Violinists are usually used to just intonation, Pythagorean and equal temperament as well. And there is more to Bach than just harmonizing a melody in 4 parts. If you need modalism there are a lot of modal players in Jazz, specially Coltrane, George Russell and Tyner.
@ranjithshegde kinda agree there...12 parts was ok...but dunno y she added equidistant just a bit later...and even pianos can have just intonation...just that maybe 99.9%are equal tempered :) where as in hindustani music we have the swara or the note and the shruti...and one more place where i felt she was mayb e saying the right thing but used the wrong word was calling ragas scales....
ragas maybe called modes ,,,,but not scales...so what we cn infer is that indian music based on the modalism is far more complex in terms of possibilities if u delve deep into it...whereas in western music only jazz has modal music..majorly...
Margaret, this is an absolutely fascinating comparison. I've lived the Western time signatures and notations all my life, and have only occasionally listened to Indian music in passing. Now you have me curious to explore what I've missed.
I love Khan's statement about Bach and Ellington. THE most complex of Western music is barely sufficient to keep him from boredom. I'd add Brubeck and call it a trio, myself, but...
Zappa used to get his band to play in multiple time sigs, and I'm sure Steve Vai can do the multiple sig thing on guitar. I loved your talk, but it does anger me when western music is represented by some only by the classical/baroque/romantic and token jazz realms. Rock music and modern electronic dance music can be extremely complex, much the equal of Bach if not Indian classical.
I have to agree.. I liked your story, because it may open ones ears for some new music, but the jazz or "western" music has some bright musicians as well.. there are zappa and vai, also the music of pat metheny, E.S.T., or even Chick Corea, just to name a few how can cope with that complex aspects..
@periurban Oh Come on...how can rock be anything as complex as baroque. The drummer is 90% the metronome and nothing more except for a 2 minute banging. And you can count the number of songs which transcend the 4 chord trend. There might have been good rock music which was complex as well but not anymore
@ranjithshegde My point is that complexity can exist in any genre of music, and it does. It's arguable of course as to the value (or not) of complexity and what we even mean by the term. To answer your question go listen to Zappa's "Don't You Ever Wash That Thing" or "G-Spot Tornado". Complex? Rock?
This is so interesting! I was just watching a video about the work of composer, Phillip Glass and it touched on his influences from Indian classical music. All this boggles my mind too.
Ludwig B. He worked with complexity of a different sort taking a single subject and weaving into the very atomic structure of the piece. Some variations of the patterns aren't revealed until you actually play the piece yourself!
You have got that right. It is amazing how western classical music got stuck with such a primitive notation system. One assuming that bar lines and black dots will tell the story. People forget that they are just symbols, a very elementary code system, and the music lies somewhere beneath.
I dont think any kinda comparison can be based on complexities of 2 different kind classical music...Indian music might have so many horizontal possibilities (Melody) as its use of intricate ragaas but Western is more complex vertically (harmonies) as there are endless possibilities of harmonic relations and progressions
ranjithshegde 1 month ago
Beg to differ...the scale divided in to 12 equidistant parts is true only in terms of the piano tuning which is called the equal temperament. There are various other tuning systems used in western classical. Violinists are usually used to just intonation, Pythagorean and equal temperament as well. And there is more to Bach than just harmonizing a melody in 4 parts. If you need modalism there are a lot of modal players in Jazz, specially Coltrane, George Russell and Tyner.
ranjithshegde 1 month ago
@ranjithshegde kinda agree there...12 parts was ok...but dunno y she added equidistant just a bit later...and even pianos can have just intonation...just that maybe 99.9%are equal tempered :) where as in hindustani music we have the swara or the note and the shruti...and one more place where i felt she was mayb e saying the right thing but used the wrong word was calling ragas scales....
jammerjd80 1 month ago
ragas maybe called modes ,,,,but not scales...so what we cn infer is that indian music based on the modalism is far more complex in terms of possibilities if u delve deep into it...whereas in western music only jazz has modal music..majorly...
jammerjd80 1 month ago
Wow! Amazing video!
HerrWarja 1 year ago
Thank you for your comment, so here I was, I hit play.
Haven't seen this in over a year, and I'll have to agree with you (she said modestly)
atree3 1 year ago
@atree3 Yes indeed. She said it in a very modest tone.
HerrWarja 1 year ago
Amen!
kingtetvideo 2 years ago
Margaret, this is an absolutely fascinating comparison. I've lived the Western time signatures and notations all my life, and have only occasionally listened to Indian music in passing. Now you have me curious to explore what I've missed.
I love Khan's statement about Bach and Ellington. THE most complex of Western music is barely sufficient to keep him from boredom. I'd add Brubeck and call it a trio, myself, but...
anmoose 2 years ago
Zappa used to get his band to play in multiple time sigs, and I'm sure Steve Vai can do the multiple sig thing on guitar. I loved your talk, but it does anger me when western music is represented by some only by the classical/baroque/romantic and token jazz realms. Rock music and modern electronic dance music can be extremely complex, much the equal of Bach if not Indian classical.
periurban 2 years ago
I have to agree.. I liked your story, because it may open ones ears for some new music, but the jazz or "western" music has some bright musicians as well.. there are zappa and vai, also the music of pat metheny, E.S.T., or even Chick Corea, just to name a few how can cope with that complex aspects..
sorry for my english ;)
JanCarlo88 2 years ago
thanks. I'll check out some of those. Know and like Zappa and Corea, but don't know vai or pat metheny.
atree3 2 years ago
@periurban Oh Come on...how can rock be anything as complex as baroque. The drummer is 90% the metronome and nothing more except for a 2 minute banging. And you can count the number of songs which transcend the 4 chord trend. There might have been good rock music which was complex as well but not anymore
ranjithshegde 1 month ago
@ranjithshegde My point is that complexity can exist in any genre of music, and it does. It's arguable of course as to the value (or not) of complexity and what we even mean by the term. To answer your question go listen to Zappa's "Don't You Ever Wash That Thing" or "G-Spot Tornado". Complex? Rock?
periurban 1 month ago
billy strayhorn would have enjoyed this story...
liketelevisionsnow 2 years ago
This is so interesting! I was just watching a video about the work of composer, Phillip Glass and it touched on his influences from Indian classical music. All this boggles my mind too.
wizzlewolf 2 years ago
I have never been able to hear those "Indian influences" in Glass's music, it all seems so simple to me.
atree3 2 years ago
very cool
JERRYBOLAK 2 years ago
Thank you!
davidsolo 2 years ago
this was way over my head...but i still enjoyed it.
what are you wearing? lol mind if i ask? is that indian dress?
achampag 2 years ago
Additionally, there are songs and meals you'd only hear and eat every hundred years or more.
lungwizard1 2 years ago
sort of like long total solar eclipses
atree3 2 years ago
Great story. Thanks for that insight into Indian music. I had no idea it was that complex :)
andymooseman 2 years ago
Fantastic story. Thank you for posting this.
My favorite composer of all time has to be
Ludwig B. He worked with complexity of a different sort taking a single subject and weaving into the very atomic structure of the piece. Some variations of the patterns aren't revealed until you actually play the piece yourself!
audionautix 2 years ago
I've heard Ramsey Lewis carry three at once
on a piano in a live performance but it was
an uncommon occurrence.
You can blame the mathematics department for
the simplistic musical view of the western world.
tyrbolo 2 years ago
You have got that right. It is amazing how western classical music got stuck with such a primitive notation system. One assuming that bar lines and black dots will tell the story. People forget that they are just symbols, a very elementary code system, and the music lies somewhere beneath.
atree3 2 years ago