I get so tired of Seles fans acting like Graf was happy this happened to Seles. She wasn't. While Peter had more influence, Steffi was more aloof. But Sanchez Vicario, Capriati, and Sabatini have good relationships with her. Look up Sabatini's Hall of Fame induction. She chose Graf to induct her. Yeah, they were doubles partners early, but chose to stop because of their singles rivalry. Graf isn't a monster, and Seles isn't an angel.
seles never turned her being stabbed a reason why she never beat graf after her comeback after 2 years. in fact she bit all her opponents except graf. for me, that was the proof that she was back to her best, and graf had improved a lot within 2 years of seles's absence. once again, both were great players and i loved to see them on court.
both (graf & seles) were great. i love graf, i don't hate seles. i loved to see them playing great tennis no matter who won. chris evert is stil mad about what happened in australian open 1988 (when the roof closed because of rain). that's why she always say bad thing about her. but graf is very nice, she never verbally attack chris evert (as far as i know), and she maintains a good relationship/friendship with seles and other players.
Graf played with fluidity and ATHLETICISM. Seles was always hunched, jerking all over, and never a real athlete. People can get away with stuffing their faces when they're teenagers, but not for long after. Seles has a built in excuse for her epic lack of conditioning.
I have read several times that Seles had eating disorder problems even before the stabbing. It is mentioned for example in a book that was written before the stabbing ("Ladies of the Courts" or so).
Serious injuries of Steffi Graf? Really? Well, at least she didn't have to deal with a stabbing injury. We, Seles fans, may be passionate tennis lovers, but we don't go around stabbing rivals of Seles. Now, I wish I could say the same thing about Graf fans, but I CAN'T!!!
Seles fans were known for death threats. Graf received dozens of them in the wake of the stabbing. Don't forget that Serbs were very violent in the 90s (Bosnia, Kosovo).
also - bit rich of chris evert talking about graf's success coming when there were no rivals - look at the state of the depth of womens' tennis when Evert won her title ..... 'people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones' ;0)
bit rude - almost serial killer stuff, 'happy birthday' to name this video...bet she's not losing sleep over it and bet she had a great birthday with all her grandslams in the bag and the bags of cash too :0) steffi rules - plus it comes down to more than just the titles she won, look at the way she plays - pure grace :)
God please! Steffi was getting the measure of Seles just look at wimbledon 1992! life is a bitch! you can't change what happened, it is sad I know, but later steffi beat the williams sisters back to back had injuries and still won!
on the other hand, the final of the australian open 6 months later saw seles dominating graf once more and graf showed no sign she could beat her that day...
Could everyone just stop with this comparing bullshit. The what if stuff is so stupid. Can't we just be happy for each of our favourites that they had extraordinary careers and inspired and touched our lives in one or another?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It's really evident as showed on the video that No ONE besides her fans think that Graf would not only won all the slams she had but she never would have reached the number one spot again.
I am so curious to the Bud Collins comment, uhm could it be that he said that a player like Graf probably would have figured out how to overhaul Seles again. Chris Evert, depending on which of her 7 personalities you get, one day she is on Steffi's bandwagon, the other day on Monica's. Besides Courier, there isn't a former male Champ who holds Seles in higher esteem than Graf, tenniswise. Graf and Navratilova were equally great and equally matched. That is called match up. Hinges-Seles lol
I find it strange that people always refer to the H2H from just a certain period. The rivalry starts from the time they first played each other. Evert and Navratilova played 80 times throughout their careers. It's 43-37 in favor of Navratilova. Between Seles and Graf, it's 10-5 for Steffi. Let's leave it at that.
a) The entire issue with the Seles-Graf rivalry is that the stabbing interupted it. Up to the stabbing, Seles was inarguably dominant over Graf. Measuring it from the first day to the last is not as meaningful in this case as the rivalry didn't play out organically.
b) Nadal leads his H2H with Federer 13-7, with 5 Grand Slam victories against Federer (who only has 2 GS final victories against Nadal). By your measurement, then, there is no argument - Nadal is better than Federer. Should we leave that at that?
Continuing, Jo Durie (United Kingdom) led in her H2H with Graf 4-3. Let's leave that at that.
The question is whether Seles would have continued winning slams when a player (Graf) who lead her in the H2H even until the stabbing was improving after it (proof: win/loss stats against other players). Seles was #1 when Graf lost tons of matches against Sabatini/Novotna types. Which Steffi didn't do anymore post-93.
@outrate: I really do see that before the stabbing, Seles was over-dominant, that is true for sure. But to call Steffi a bitch is not fair. She has always been considered a fair sportswoman, by everyone, respected all her opponents, was a timid, aspiring athlete. and she has bunches of fans all over the world. Even in her tennis afterlife, she leads an exemplary life, as a loving mother and having a fund for children. We will never know what would have happended and we cannot change the past.
I think it's really sad that you are pouring energy into this unfortunate episode. These events are old and both women have moved on, indeed tennis has moved on. Both womens records are what they are now and can't be changed. Monica's stabbing was a horrible event, but having a go at Steffi on youtube isn't going to change what's happened or alter her record.
It's the only way for insecure fans to hold own to the legacy of their player. I agree, the head to head is 10-5, Seles never dominated Graf. How can someone with such limited skills and no grass court greatness be considered the greatest? Monica made the most of her talent and her unmatched mental greatness, but that's it. If the stabbing had not taken place she would be the greatest player behind Martina and Steffi.
why "behind"? who can tell. after all, Seles was winning big. Graf had 9 slams entering the FO 90 final to Seles 0. When seles was stabbed, Graf had 11 while Seles had won 8 (+3 YEC in a row). Seles was catching up with her records.
Graf also has a losing H2H against such legends as Liz Smylie and Beverley Mould, so I wouldn't go too far taking the flat H2H figures as any kind of measure.
They can be meaningful, but not always when taken as raw figures and "left at that".
For example: if - as you imply - Graf is better than Seles because she leads their overall H2H, then Graf's even H2H with Navratilova must mean they were equally great.
So what happens when we add in that Seles led her H2H against Navratilova?
yes they played 3 times in 1989 and Graf won all those matches but Monica was 15 back then, lol. At 16 Monica was whooping Steffi's ass already, including her first Gran Slam final. So from 89 to 93 Graf held 6-4, do you maths!!
Yea it was a tragedy and a burgeoning rivalry was cut short, but despite Monica's achievements prior to the stabbing, she never held a winning record against Graf. So suck on that detractors.
actually Monica Seles leads 4/3 from 1990 to 1993, let's not forget 3/1 in Grand Slam finals in 2 different surfaces. Graf's advantage prior to the stabbing Monica suffered from a Steffi fan were 3 defeats she did when Monica was only 15.
I get so tired of Seles fans acting like Graf was happy this happened to Seles. She wasn't. While Peter had more influence, Steffi was more aloof. But Sanchez Vicario, Capriati, and Sabatini have good relationships with her. Look up Sabatini's Hall of Fame induction. She chose Graf to induct her. Yeah, they were doubles partners early, but chose to stop because of their singles rivalry. Graf isn't a monster, and Seles isn't an angel.
badgernation74 1 month ago
seles never turned her being stabbed a reason why she never beat graf after her comeback after 2 years. in fact she bit all her opponents except graf. for me, that was the proof that she was back to her best, and graf had improved a lot within 2 years of seles's absence. once again, both were great players and i loved to see them on court.
anasmajdi 7 months ago
both (graf & seles) were great. i love graf, i don't hate seles. i loved to see them playing great tennis no matter who won. chris evert is stil mad about what happened in australian open 1988 (when the roof closed because of rain). that's why she always say bad thing about her. but graf is very nice, she never verbally attack chris evert (as far as i know), and she maintains a good relationship/friendship with seles and other players.
anasmajdi 7 months ago
@outrate Hey thanks for posting this video....at least Steffi has 22 grand slams and no matter what you cant change that!!! Loser!!
pb123451508 7 months ago
Graf played with fluidity and ATHLETICISM. Seles was always hunched, jerking all over, and never a real athlete. People can get away with stuffing their faces when they're teenagers, but not for long after. Seles has a built in excuse for her epic lack of conditioning.
badgernation74 9 months ago
@badgernation74
I have read several times that Seles had eating disorder problems even before the stabbing. It is mentioned for example in a book that was written before the stabbing ("Ladies of the Courts" or so).
Meade3763 1 month ago
Funny how any key points that favor Graf are deleted from this exert.
wildfire1120 1 year ago
for uploader:Seles was the lucky bitch.she won slams in 90-93 because of Steffi played with dad scandal and serious injuries.
SteffiGrafFan 1 year ago 3
@SteffiGrafFan
Serious injuries of Steffi Graf? Really? Well, at least she didn't have to deal with a stabbing injury. We, Seles fans, may be passionate tennis lovers, but we don't go around stabbing rivals of Seles. Now, I wish I could say the same thing about Graf fans, but I CAN'T!!!
juancarlos772652 1 year ago
@juancarlos772652
Seles fans were known for death threats. Graf received dozens of them in the wake of the stabbing. Don't forget that Serbs were very violent in the 90s (Bosnia, Kosovo).
Meade3763 1 month ago
@SteffiGrafFan now i remember what happened. thanks for the remind.
anasmajdi 7 months ago
Ugh Chris Evert sickens me here... she is just upset that she didn't win 22 Slams like Steffi did....
Guillemarti 1 year ago 3
@Guillemarti
Yes, classless and cheap. Well, what do we expect from someone who was married four times?
Meade3763 1 month ago
also - bit rich of chris evert talking about graf's success coming when there were no rivals - look at the state of the depth of womens' tennis when Evert won her title ..... 'people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones' ;0)
maxipowers22 2 years ago
bit rude - almost serial killer stuff, 'happy birthday' to name this video...bet she's not losing sleep over it and bet she had a great birthday with all her grandslams in the bag and the bags of cash too :0) steffi rules - plus it comes down to more than just the titles she won, look at the way she plays - pure grace :)
maxipowers22 2 years ago
steff the best.......
768645 2 years ago 2
Blimey, you need to get out more mate!
Menexpert 2 years ago
God please! Steffi was getting the measure of Seles just look at wimbledon 1992! life is a bitch! you can't change what happened, it is sad I know, but later steffi beat the williams sisters back to back had injuries and still won!
mnkylondon 2 years ago 12
on the other hand, the final of the australian open 6 months later saw seles dominating graf once more and graf showed no sign she could beat her that day...
juju1305 2 years ago
Cheap!!! Very Cheap Video!!!!!!!!!!!!
cassidyjaeson 2 years ago 6
Could everyone just stop with this comparing bullshit. The what if stuff is so stupid. Can't we just be happy for each of our favourites that they had extraordinary careers and inspired and touched our lives in one or another?
Flupptrack 2 years ago 3
@Flupptrack: Agree with you completely ... :)
yevshif 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It's really evident as showed on the video that No ONE besides her fans think that Graf would not only won all the slams she had but she never would have reached the number one spot again.
juancito1975 2 years ago
I am so curious to the Bud Collins comment, uhm could it be that he said that a player like Graf probably would have figured out how to overhaul Seles again. Chris Evert, depending on which of her 7 personalities you get, one day she is on Steffi's bandwagon, the other day on Monica's. Besides Courier, there isn't a former male Champ who holds Seles in higher esteem than Graf, tenniswise. Graf and Navratilova were equally great and equally matched. That is called match up. Hinges-Seles lol
Warriorroger 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Graf is not equally great with Navratilova. No one is. Billy Jean King and Chris Evert are close though.
juancito1975 2 years ago
I find it strange that people always refer to the H2H from just a certain period. The rivalry starts from the time they first played each other. Evert and Navratilova played 80 times throughout their careers. It's 43-37 in favor of Navratilova. Between Seles and Graf, it's 10-5 for Steffi. Let's leave it at that.
rinor28 2 years ago
No, let's not.
a) The entire issue with the Seles-Graf rivalry is that the stabbing interupted it. Up to the stabbing, Seles was inarguably dominant over Graf. Measuring it from the first day to the last is not as meaningful in this case as the rivalry didn't play out organically.
outrate 2 years ago
b) Nadal leads his H2H with Federer 13-7, with 5 Grand Slam victories against Federer (who only has 2 GS final victories against Nadal). By your measurement, then, there is no argument - Nadal is better than Federer. Should we leave that at that?
Continuing, Jo Durie (United Kingdom) led in her H2H with Graf 4-3. Let's leave that at that.
outrate 2 years ago
The question is whether Seles would have continued winning slams when a player (Graf) who lead her in the H2H even until the stabbing was improving after it (proof: win/loss stats against other players). Seles was #1 when Graf lost tons of matches against Sabatini/Novotna types. Which Steffi didn't do anymore post-93.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
oh for sure - she was too busy beating players like Helena Sukova and losing to players like Mary Pierce and Lori McNiel.
Graf is an overrated BITCH
outrate 2 years ago
@outrate: I really do see that before the stabbing, Seles was over-dominant, that is true for sure. But to call Steffi a bitch is not fair. She has always been considered a fair sportswoman, by everyone, respected all her opponents, was a timid, aspiring athlete. and she has bunches of fans all over the world. Even in her tennis afterlife, she leads an exemplary life, as a loving mother and having a fund for children. We will never know what would have happended and we cannot change the past.
SirToby2512 2 years ago 6
Oh yeah...Graf was such an opportunistic bitch. Coz, you know, Seles' stabbing was SO her fault... *rolls eyes*
ozroke1 2 years ago
yeah when Graf was like 13
wildfire1120 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The entire issue with the stabbing is that Seles achievementes would be plenty more and Graf much less in terms of championship titles.
juancito1975 2 years ago
I think it's really sad that you are pouring energy into this unfortunate episode. These events are old and both women have moved on, indeed tennis has moved on. Both womens records are what they are now and can't be changed. Monica's stabbing was a horrible event, but having a go at Steffi on youtube isn't going to change what's happened or alter her record.
hippymango 2 years ago 13
It's the only way for insecure fans to hold own to the legacy of their player. I agree, the head to head is 10-5, Seles never dominated Graf. How can someone with such limited skills and no grass court greatness be considered the greatest? Monica made the most of her talent and her unmatched mental greatness, but that's it. If the stabbing had not taken place she would be the greatest player behind Martina and Steffi.
Warriorroger 2 years ago
why "behind"? who can tell. after all, Seles was winning big. Graf had 9 slams entering the FO 90 final to Seles 0. When seles was stabbed, Graf had 11 while Seles had won 8 (+3 YEC in a row). Seles was catching up with her records.
juju1305 2 years ago
Graf also has a losing H2H against such legends as Liz Smylie and Beverley Mould, so I wouldn't go too far taking the flat H2H figures as any kind of measure.
They can be meaningful, but not always when taken as raw figures and "left at that".
For example: if - as you imply - Graf is better than Seles because she leads their overall H2H, then Graf's even H2H with Navratilova must mean they were equally great.
So what happens when we add in that Seles led her H2H against Navratilova?
outrate 2 years ago
sure honey :),
Warriorroger 2 years ago
yes they played 3 times in 1989 and Graf won all those matches but Monica was 15 back then, lol. At 16 Monica was whooping Steffi's ass already, including her first Gran Slam final. So from 89 to 93 Graf held 6-4, do you maths!!
juancito1975 2 years ago
Whooping what?? whooping cough?? get your English right before trashing others
mark9208 2 years ago
That's a low punch. We can follow this on spanish but only if you can write it better than my english.
juancito1975 2 years ago
Yea it was a tragedy and a burgeoning rivalry was cut short, but despite Monica's achievements prior to the stabbing, she never held a winning record against Graf. So suck on that detractors.
atomcrush 2 years ago 2
actually Monica Seles leads 4/3 from 1990 to 1993, let's not forget 3/1 in Grand Slam finals in 2 different surfaces. Graf's advantage prior to the stabbing Monica suffered from a Steffi fan were 3 defeats she did when Monica was only 15.
juancito1975 2 years ago