i think people also need to work on atmospheric source heat pumps. As one of the major problems facing us is global(atmospheric) warming, WE SHOULD DEVELOP TECHNOLOGY THAT EXTRACTS HEAT FROM THE ATMOSHPHERE. if this is done as you suggest with heat pump and stirling combos, a "small" amount of energy could be used to cool the atmosphere, and at the same time GENERATE MORE POWER than the cooling system is using... HEAT RECAPTURE TECHNOLOGY is the BEST WAY boost efficiency in all systems
hang down a millions of digital thermometer (AKA thermo couples) close to the Earth's core then you get electricity straight from the Earth until the end of time.
here's how :#1 I came about this from a verry diferent point of view, an endothermic chemical reaction would absorb heat at no cost of input energy and could be released in several reactions to get back to the original reactants.
#2 finding the right chemical reaction was taking a verry long time and I thought about boiling a low temperature liquid on the hot coils of a heat pump to drive a steam engine with a mechanical link back to the compressor.
Also rather than using PV for solar power you should consider CSP (concentrated solar power) in particular Parabolic Trough Systems or Linear Fresnel Reflector Systems
Argh!?! can't post urls.. Just search google for "Linear Concentrator Systems"
These systems could be scaled down and used on rooftops.. Also it is possible to retain the heat produced during daylight hours so as to produce electricity even at night without the need for batteries though batteries are still an option.
It is very simple and more than possible to power your house for free. combine solar, geothermal, Stirling engines, wind.. Also note that a compost pile generates a great deal of heat, they sometime ignite themselves which creates some real potential when combined with Stirling engines.
I've been mulling this idea over myself recently - I'm certainly going to give a proof of concept model a go (with a few added process steps which I won't divulge here!) just to see for myself why it will/won't work. As a degree qualified, battle hardened, engineer I think the only drawback is that the most iron clad patent would be worked around for a concept so simple, meaning the only way to sit on this idea AND make money is with your own power station in the back garden...
I think you are probably right, given the efficiency of stirling engines, it might be worth chucking a bit of solar into the pot too. If I could use such a device for powering my own home I think I'd do it today. I terms of money makin, sellin the parts would be a possible avenue and not infinge any existing patents.
Here's some info for You, which I'll have to split in at least 2 posts. It is from a patent search:
Part 1
Abstract of US2008127657.
A power generation system driven by heat pump which produces a heat source by heating and a cold source by cooling for the driving of a heat engine to produce mechanical energy to drive a generator generating electrical power. Part of the power generated by the generator is fed back to the heat pump
continuously, and the remaining power is provided to end users in need of electrical power. The heat engine of the power generation system can be Stirling engine or a steam turbine, wherein the heat efficiency of the Stirling engine can reach 25%, and the heat efficiency of the steam turbine can reach above 30%. The heat pump used in the power generation system can be a vapor-compression heat pump. Under operating conditions where temperature difference
Don't worry. There's no way, they're gonna make it work. Neither will You - unfortunately. There are millions of patents, that for obvious reasons are never realized.
the nearest i've seen to that is a 5hp stirling. search for 'st-5 stirling engine in korea' on utube. i think 1hp is about equal to 750watts electrical power, so it would be around 3.75kw. i had a look around on a few sites but can't seem to find anyone who sells them. for a 5kw version i think the skills of heath robinson may have to be employed along with the help of an understanding bank manager and a lot of luck. product development aint cheap, especially with something as compex as this.
I know that you have come up with a good idea here. It's just how to get the job done. When I started looking into over unity, a heat pump was the first thing I found out about that actually did it.
Very interesting perspectives. The heatpump could be based on an air/air unit, which isn't that expensive. At least a demo-model could be made, using one of these.
Don't know about efficiency, though. An air heatpump generates 2½ - 5 times the energy, You put in to it. A sterling engine has a theoretical max efficiency of 50% and a low temp. differential type, that would be used with a heat pump like this is considerably lower.
Hmm, after having read a bit about heatpumps, I tend to doubt that this setup is possible.
It is not correct, that a heatpump generates 2½ to 5 times the energy You put in to it. This is the so called coefficient of performance - CoP, that express how much energy the heatpump moves "upstream" in temperature, related to the electric energy it takes to generate same heat with electric heating. So unfortunately, still no free energy here.
Sorry, but I'm afraid that you are not correct. A lot of manufacturers overstate their claims but I can assure you that a ground source pump with a flow temp of 50 degrees will achieve a CoP of 5. I.E. 1Kw in, 5Kw out. You'd be lucky to achieve more than 3 with an air source however and exhaust air is the worst at about 2. It's true, I know, I work with these things every day.
Allright, as indicated I am not knowledgeable in heatpumps.
What I will hold on to, is the fact, that I don't think You can build the working setup that is sketched in the video, no matter using air or ground source heatpumps.
I don't believe in the statement "1 kW in, 5 kW out". Only, it would take 5 kW of electricity to generate the same heat with electric heating, which shows how inefficient electric heating is.
Anyway, have fun if You try to build a proof-of-concept model.
Electric resistance heating is 100% efficient, so if you buy that "it would take 5KW of electricity to generate the same heat", you must also concede that, with a COP of 5, a heat pump achieves "1KW in, 5KW out".
OleTC-- I don't have the resources and there are still some serious hurdles to this idea. While it's true that a heat pump can have a COP of 5 for a relatively low temperature step up, it is also true that a Stirling engine likes to have about 500f or better for its input temp. There may not be an overlap in the range of temperatures that a heat pump can deliver COP of 5.0 and a Stirling Engine can still generate electricity at 30% efficiency.
i think people also need to work on atmospheric source heat pumps. As one of the major problems facing us is global(atmospheric) warming, WE SHOULD DEVELOP TECHNOLOGY THAT EXTRACTS HEAT FROM THE ATMOSHPHERE. if this is done as you suggest with heat pump and stirling combos, a "small" amount of energy could be used to cool the atmosphere, and at the same time GENERATE MORE POWER than the cooling system is using... HEAT RECAPTURE TECHNOLOGY is the BEST WAY boost efficiency in all systems
sceptic33 9 months ago
interesting and informative thank you
Bo0ja 1 year ago
hang down a millions of digital thermometer (AKA thermo couples) close to the Earth's core then you get electricity straight from the Earth until the end of time.
mikeccuk2006 1 year ago
here's how :#1 I came about this from a verry diferent point of view, an endothermic chemical reaction would absorb heat at no cost of input energy and could be released in several reactions to get back to the original reactants.
#2 finding the right chemical reaction was taking a verry long time and I thought about boiling a low temperature liquid on the hot coils of a heat pump to drive a steam engine with a mechanical link back to the compressor.
but its not free its "solar thermal energy."
madbackyardscientist 1 year ago
Comment removed
nrgchris1982 2 years ago
uhm.. doesn't this exist already?
mirabilis 3 years ago
Also rather than using PV for solar power you should consider CSP (concentrated solar power) in particular Parabolic Trough Systems or Linear Fresnel Reflector Systems
Argh!?! can't post urls.. Just search google for "Linear Concentrator Systems"
These systems could be scaled down and used on rooftops.. Also it is possible to retain the heat produced during daylight hours so as to produce electricity even at night without the need for batteries though batteries are still an option.
linefoot 3 years ago 2
It is very simple and more than possible to power your house for free. combine solar, geothermal, Stirling engines, wind.. Also note that a compost pile generates a great deal of heat, they sometime ignite themselves which creates some real potential when combined with Stirling engines.
linefoot 3 years ago
I've been mulling this idea over myself recently - I'm certainly going to give a proof of concept model a go (with a few added process steps which I won't divulge here!) just to see for myself why it will/won't work. As a degree qualified, battle hardened, engineer I think the only drawback is that the most iron clad patent would be worked around for a concept so simple, meaning the only way to sit on this idea AND make money is with your own power station in the back garden...
rcad78 3 years ago
I think you are probably right, given the efficiency of stirling engines, it might be worth chucking a bit of solar into the pot too. If I could use such a device for powering my own home I think I'd do it today. I terms of money makin, sellin the parts would be a possible avenue and not infinge any existing patents.
furzeham 3 years ago
Here's some info for You, which I'll have to split in at least 2 posts. It is from a patent search:
Part 1
Abstract of US2008127657.
A power generation system driven by heat pump which produces a heat source by heating and a cold source by cooling for the driving of a heat engine to produce mechanical energy to drive a generator generating electrical power. Part of the power generated by the generator is fed back to the heat pump
OleTC 3 years ago
Part2
continuously, and the remaining power is provided to end users in need of electrical power. The heat engine of the power generation system can be Stirling engine or a steam turbine, wherein the heat efficiency of the Stirling engine can reach 25%, and the heat efficiency of the steam turbine can reach above 30%. The heat pump used in the power generation system can be a vapor-compression heat pump. Under operating conditions where temperature difference
OleTC 3 years ago
Part 3
between the generated heat and cold sources is over 25 degree celcius, the coefficient of performance can reach above 7.
OleTC 3 years ago
Excellent research, thanks - all the best ideas have already been taken !!
furzeham 3 years ago
Don't worry. There's no way, they're gonna make it work. Neither will You - unfortunately. There are millions of patents, that for obvious reasons are never realized.
Regs
OleTC 3 years ago
Can anybody find me a 5 Kw stirling engine ??
furzeham 3 years ago
the nearest i've seen to that is a 5hp stirling. search for 'st-5 stirling engine in korea' on utube. i think 1hp is about equal to 750watts electrical power, so it would be around 3.75kw. i had a look around on a few sites but can't seem to find anyone who sells them. for a 5kw version i think the skills of heath robinson may have to be employed along with the help of an understanding bank manager and a lot of luck. product development aint cheap, especially with something as compex as this.
CreamPie9uy 3 years ago
Thank you for your input, I'll take a look
furzeham 3 years ago
I know that you have come up with a good idea here. It's just how to get the job done. When I started looking into over unity, a heat pump was the first thing I found out about that actually did it.
Lidmotor 3 years ago
Very interesting perspectives. The heatpump could be based on an air/air unit, which isn't that expensive. At least a demo-model could be made, using one of these.
Don't know about efficiency, though. An air heatpump generates 2½ - 5 times the energy, You put in to it. A sterling engine has a theoretical max efficiency of 50% and a low temp. differential type, that would be used with a heat pump like this is considerably lower.
Tech skills needed, to develop.
Anyway, good luck if You try.
OleTC 3 years ago
Hmm, after having read a bit about heatpumps, I tend to doubt that this setup is possible.
It is not correct, that a heatpump generates 2½ to 5 times the energy You put in to it. This is the so called coefficient of performance - CoP, that express how much energy the heatpump moves "upstream" in temperature, related to the electric energy it takes to generate same heat with electric heating. So unfortunately, still no free energy here.
OleTC 3 years ago
Sorry, but I'm afraid that you are not correct. A lot of manufacturers overstate their claims but I can assure you that a ground source pump with a flow temp of 50 degrees will achieve a CoP of 5. I.E. 1Kw in, 5Kw out. You'd be lucky to achieve more than 3 with an air source however and exhaust air is the worst at about 2. It's true, I know, I work with these things every day.
furzeham 3 years ago
Allright, as indicated I am not knowledgeable in heatpumps.
What I will hold on to, is the fact, that I don't think You can build the working setup that is sketched in the video, no matter using air or ground source heatpumps.
I don't believe in the statement "1 kW in, 5 kW out". Only, it would take 5 kW of electricity to generate the same heat with electric heating, which shows how inefficient electric heating is.
Anyway, have fun if You try to build a proof-of-concept model.
Regs.
OleTC 3 years ago
Electric resistance heating is 100% efficient, so if you buy that "it would take 5KW of electricity to generate the same heat", you must also concede that, with a COP of 5, a heat pump achieves "1KW in, 5KW out".
marcbaber 3 years ago
Let me put it this way - then why don't You make a proof-of-concept machine and become mankinds new savior AND incredible rich?
OleTC 3 years ago
OleTC-- I don't have the resources and there are still some serious hurdles to this idea. While it's true that a heat pump can have a COP of 5 for a relatively low temperature step up, it is also true that a Stirling engine likes to have about 500f or better for its input temp. There may not be an overlap in the range of temperatures that a heat pump can deliver COP of 5.0 and a Stirling Engine can still generate electricity at 30% efficiency.
axilarry 3 years ago