NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden's Magic Rocket

[rodswebdesign]

brilliant video

[jessyjessy4]

very interesting video thanks

[bribribri56]

Very enjoyable thank you

[Iamnotaparakeet]

I bet this current director of NASA really perturbs Dr. Zubrin.

[dks13827]

Mr Bolden, I believe, is one of those people who thinks that throwing money at a problem, any problem, will solve it. ( referring to the magic engines )

[quantumG]

@dks13827 that's NASA in general. Also consider all the JWST advocates who think throwing another $5,000,000,000 at the problem will solve it. For a program that was supposed to cost $500,000,000 and is already a few hundred percent over budget, that's nuts.. literally, it's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[enoughzenough]

I don't think that Charles Bolden Jr. would call out on a theory three times wich is based on bullshit, Charles Bolden Jr. isn't Ali G.

[granddad2002]

Plasma and Ion propulsion systems can be improved.What gets me is all the political wrangling on Space exploration... You think the Chinese get into the petty topics like this? India might beat the US to Mars? ESA and Soyuz Corp. are doing very quiet work on some of these issues.It's like Spain, Italy and Portugal in the 1500's...within 100 years they lost the Atlantic. Tech is moving faster...50 years after the Moon landing and the world is ready for new players to run ahead of the US.

[quantumG]

@granddad2002 I expect every single Chinese launch is negotiated to death. The PLA only do the flights because it gives their asat teams a reason to practice fielding the missile.

[Winner8501]

Besides, you can't cheat the laws of physics. You can get to to Mars in *hours* if you are willing to expend enough energy. Where and if you can get it is a different matter altogether. VASIMR-powered 38 days-to-Mars mission requires a nuclear reactor(s) that doesn't exist and will not exist for decades.

And I'd definitely fire him after he said he couldn't get people to Mars in 10 years, even if he had an infinite budget. If that is so, he's admitted to gross incompetence.

[monokhem]

@Winner8501 If by "you can get to mars in hours" you are refering to a tin can with a fine jelly stuck to one side that used to be you, yes you can.

[Winner8501]

"Game changing technologies" - in other words "magic".

Look, I have nothing against new, revolutionary technologies if they offer serious benefits, but you can't COUNT on them appearing just in time to help you achieve your goals. That would be like hoping that a super-rich relative of yours dies just in time for you to pay your bills from the inheritance.

It's foolish.

[prospectnyc]

"The VASIMR engine could get humans to Mars in about six weeks" 6 times 7 = 42. So... 42 days. See? Everyones right!

[cannigreen4life]

why dont we just build the damn rocket, get some lower class intellagence to fly the bird, let him float around out there for 8 months , and just see what happens lol.

[sammair]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke,

[sbergman27]

VASIMR has only been seriously pursued since 2005. Plans are in place to test on the ISS, possibly adopting it for orbital boost purposes. It has produced 5N of thrust, enough to accelerate Cassini by 15,000 mph/month. The short duration of current firings is a limitation of testing on Earth. It can already fire for extended periods in a vacuum. This could be fantastic for robotic missions. The editor of this video is working hard to distort the facts. Get a more factual account at Wikipedia.

[quantumG]

@sbergman27 haha, I'm working hard to distort the facts? If you actually go read the VASIMR published works you'll discover that no thrust has been demonstrated, ever.  The facts are that VASIMR may someday go to the ISS and be demonstrated, but that day has not been scheduled yet. Meanwhile, plenty of other electric propulsion systems have been demonstrated both on the ground and in space and they have similar capabilities to VASIMR. The potential of VASIMR is great, but it's not there yet.

[sbergman27]

@quantumG Yes, you are working hard to distort the facts. You yourself admit to 2.25N of thrust, while failing to note that 2.25N could drive a Cassini-mass craft from L2 to Pluto's orbit in 3.3 years from a standing start. Re: ISS testing, the agreement was signed in 2008, with placement expected in 2011 or 2012. You are backing off from your disingenuous "for a few seconds" claim, I note. I'm not married to VASIMR. But your video has a foul odor to it. Why not edit it to fix that?

[quantumG]

@sbergman27 dude, the engine thrust is just one parameter necessary for determining if the engine could be used for such an application. As for the claims in the video, I was being *generous*. As I said, go READ the literature.

Why not edit it to fix that? <- why don't you go fuck off and die?

[sbergman27]

@quantumG Which is why VASIMR is soon to be tested at ISS. You nebulously say "read the literature", which saves you from having to cite any specific sources. I'm recommending the VASIMR Wikipedia article, its references, and its discussion page as good starting places for other viewers.

---

why don't you go fuck off and die?

---

You seem inappropriately agitated. I've presented the facts in a more neutral light than your propaganda flick. Why does that upset you so?

-Steve

[Armigo91]

@quantumG

thats like were 100years back in the past, and we launch some fireworks on newyears eve, and we wonder, will the same physical reaction of a rocket also have effect in a vaccuum or space????.......

cause magnetoplasma has been tested on the ground, and it worked and it produced thrust,

so it will also work in space, you dont need a demonstration for that,

the demonstration is only to show it to the world, its not a prerequisite before we can tell if it will work,

[Armigo91]

so your comment makes not alot of sense.

and to the matter of facts, its a fact that no magnetoplasma engine has been tested in space. so it aint a fact, it is a fact due to physical law, that magnetized propelled plasma creates thrust. meaning that if it creates thrust it will work.

why do you need to see a demonstration before you believe it will work. you have a bad mentality, youd perform well as a court martial, the will also deny every bit if it aint demonstrated by fact.

[Armigo91]

my question to all this nonsense is,

what are your trying to prove by your comments. Are you stating you have bad trust in the design, or are you a getting horny on facts,

i hope nasa will give their magnetoplasma demonstration soon, cause it will silence you.

as for thrust. the first car only got to 8mph. now we have cars that drive up to 200mph. And some even faster.

as for magnetoplasma, it needs fuyrther development. dont bith about the statistics of the first designs.

[Armigo91]

today, they may only support 5N of thrust. In 10 or 20 years they might do 20N or more. Its not like, that our current our current theories, are the pinnacle of what we can do.

To think there are even people that disbelief the design at all,

[abram730]

@quantumG I've seen it generate thrust and it's up to 5.7 newtons.

[Weenchit]

I think Bolden knows very well that VASIMR will not work for a really long time. They are sticking it out there to engage NASA in a wild goose chase so that we can end manned space flight for a long time. If he and his superiors were really serious about manned Mars missions all we would be hearing about would be nuclear thermal and space power reactors. I wish the administration had the balls to just come out and say "we don't care about space as it doesn't relate to redistributing wealth."

[quantumG]

@Weenchit I wish idiots would stop making wild accusations behind other people's backs under the cover of anonymity. Tell me, if you were standing in front of Bolden would you say such a thing? Would you expect to get punched in the nose for it? Why make such a slanderous accusation if you're not willing to put your face on the line? Do you think it makes you a big man?

[Weenchit]

Oh gimme a break. Like it would matter if I put my name on it? The point is what I said not who said it. And for the record, I don't think Bolden has anything to do with the policy. But as he is the public figure it's his job to take the heat - or at least some of it. I bet if I expressed these concerns to him in private he would sympathize because he knows that our current space policy sucks. You're a big man for calling me out though.

[Dragon150043]

@quantumG Since your flaming people for their anonymity, why the robot voice? Why not come on screen with your face so everyone can see the voice behind your reason?

[sbergman27]

@Weenchit Well, the "Flexible Path" plan, commissioned by Obama, and developed by the HSF committee *does* assume NTRs to be available by the late 2020s. (The editor of the video hasn't done his homework.) Keep in mind that due to the US public's irrationality regarding anything "nuclear", this topic must be addressed with great care. Bolden is *clearly* talking about NTR's. But too many loons in the US would freak if he used the word "nuclear".

[Weenchit]

@sbergman27 Are you sure about that? Everything I have read and heard about Obama's plan is that their technology of choice is VASIMR. I would like to see how the flexible path assumes NTR; I remain skeptical. In any case, as nice as it would be to have NTR for LEO -> Mars, I want NTR for heavy lift -> LEO. Otherwise, space stays extremely expensive and exclusive. I think that if the govt had a need for human space flight antinuclear types would have no say in it but there is no need for HSF.

[sbergman27]

@Weenchit VASIMR has been mentioned. But it's really better suited to robotic missions and not heavy lifting a manned expedition to Mars. Do a Youtube search for:

NASA Future Human Missions - David Korsmeyer (SETI Talks)

Resigning myself to Congress' consistent stinginess re: space exploration & science, I, myself, much prefer focusing what public money there is on robotic science missions and related technologies. Meanwhile, private space endeavors are making LEO exciting again.

[Weenchit]

@sbergman27 Well the thing about VASIMR is that for it to be really useful it needs a power supply that won't exist for decades: a small, very high-power nuclear reactor. This is a frustratingly far-off goal. I like NTR also bec it works in the atmosphere and in space - a huge simplification. And private space companies sounds great but you should hear Mike Griffin talk about it at the recent Mars Society Convention (& Zubrin RE VASIMR). I'll check out the Korsmeyer talk. Thanks!

[sbergman27]

@Weenchit Another good and relevant SETI Seminar Series talk, which also sheds some light on Mike Griffin's perspective is:

Human Spaceflight/Augustine Commission - Dan Rasky (SETI Talks)

[Weenchit]

@sbergman27 Thanks!

[PenscratcherG]

I don't want to say "Pie in the sky" but there is a huge elephant in the room and its getting ready to charge. This is unproven technology. It will be used one day but in order to get ppl to Mars and begin to establish a presence on the planet this is not the tech we want or need to use.

[quantumG]

@PenscratcherG agreed. Rather than just passionately pushing the cutting edge and maturing technology so that it can be used in future mission planning, the NASA administrator is hyping a friend's unproven technology as the magic bullet. NASA *should* have a technology development program. And there's nothing wrong with saying that existing technology is simply too expensive to do anything significant beyond LEO, but the future is unknown, and we need to admit that.

[smg1one]

Why assume he is talking about something that doesn't do what he's talking about? Say his magic rocket doesn't get men to Mars in 10 days... say it gets them there in less than 8 months ... wouldn't that be an advance worth working on rather than just firing up whatever we can find now and sending ppl to land on Mars as soon as possible? Rather than Constellation, why not have a real plan? why the robot voice?

[quantumG]

@smg1one you'll note that Bolden has since stopped referring to the magic rocket.  I guess someone finally got to him and told him that he was being unrealistic. And 8 months is doable with a chemical rocket.

[Caidland]

From Ad Astra Rocket company homepage:

Human Transportation to Mars

------------------------------­--------

More rapid transit is possible with a VASIMR propulsion system powered by a nuclear-electric generator.

A 12 MegaWatt VASIMR-powered craft could reach Mars in less than four months.

A 200 MegaWatt ship could make the trip in as few as 39 days.

------------------------------­------------------

[dks13827]

Bolden is indeed dumb enough to believe the false hype. He is, Trust me.

[Kapitananime]

Charles Bolden needs to be fired. He is promising a magical technology some 10 or more years from now for a short trip to Mars latter. This is SWAMP LAND salesmen ship. He know NASA can't come up with it sooner so he pushes this fantastic technology into the far future as a carrot to appease the Congress.

"OH" lets stop putting people in space for 15 years and I promise to fly to Mars after that.

BULL SHIT...FIRE BOLDEN NOW!

[quantumG]

@Kapitananime who are you talking to?  It's not like the President trolls Youtube for advice.

Calm down.

[smg1one]

@Kapitananime ... now who said anything about not putting people in space for the next 10 years? Think of all the things we have today that no one in the general public was thinking about 20 years ago.

[bja6a]

I suppose "days" means 60 days, or 500 days.

[quantumG]

@bja6a no, that would mean Charlie Bolden is being dishonest and I don't think he's a dishonest guy. I think Frank Chang-Diaz or others have been talking up VASIMR and this "mere days" claim has come out. Bolden has latched onto it as something exciting to repeat and they have not corrected him because it is in their interest. Bolden is a standup guy, but he's a sucker for a good anecdote.

[ytams1]

Ad Astra is claiming 39 days but using a much larger VASIMR than the current ones. The power source being nuclear electric.

[quantumG]

@ytams1 yep, but I expect someone has been telling him that they can do it faster.. and that nuclear may not be needed. In short, Charlie Bolden needs to stop repeating unsubstantiated nonsense that his "friends" tell him.

[ocularfunnel]

Someone should have told him that the VASIMR is not something that you just dump something on.

[rkulla]

You couldn't find a robot voice with an Australian accent eh?

[quantumG]

hehe.. no. I tried reading my script but it was 1am here at the time and I was getting the "shh" treatment from the wife. Not to mention that robot voices are hilarious.