Vinyl Is King !

[alainlyz]

This is where vinyl truly trumps digital music. The rich and nuanced sound quality of analog recording is something that can't be replicated by CD recording or MP3s. Vinyl records have grooves carved into them that mirror the original sound's waveform, which means that no information from the original sound is lost. The science behind it gets even more technical but it basically proves that analog, vinyl recordings are the truest way of listening to music.

[pornojack]

your choice of turntables is crap. also vinyl is for losers that are stuck in the 70s and in their mom's basement.

[monumentfloyd]

@pornojack i have a much better turntable. That was just one of many. My mom has been dead for over 20 years. I live with my dad.

[TheWho58]

@pornojack Vinyls never died bands always took there albums out on vinyl & cd even to this day pop bands, metal bands, hip hop/rap groups, etc etc still put out there albums on vinyl. It will never die its pretty cool seeing kids in the 90's and today buying vinyl.

[vinylrecordcollector]

Awesome video! CD's and mp3s are great for portability, but if you're just sitting at home, why not listen to your music on vinyl since it has better sound quality?

[wholethinker]

Have you tried to compare digitally authored vinyls with analog authored ones?

Just curious what your findings are.

[monumentfloyd]

@wholethinker I have made a record myself and it was recorded on analog tape then transfered to a CD for mastering then mastered to a record. It creates a hybrid sound of analog and digital. I will say a CD can sound pretty close to a record if the recording medium was tape. Thats the main thing to record on tape.

[wholethinker]

@monumentfloyd If we take a vinyl and record it on a CD, would be this CD as good as the vinyl? Have you tried it? Or better using Super Audio CD format that has better than audio CD resolution?

My goal is to have vinyls backed up digitally to prevent the accidental damage when playing them on a turntable.

[monumentfloyd]

@wholethinker No, it wil. not be as good as the vinyl. Also dont fool yourself with the CDs. They are more destructable than records. In fact you're trading one pretty good medium for a poor one. Take care of your records and clean them and be cautious with the needle and they should last more than one life time.

[HumaninSeoul]

You must work alone because you sound like you have no social skills at all. You look uncomfortable, nervous, and lack strength in your assertions. hmm

[VASINGER]

Ive noticed that people over 40 are most likely to say cds sound better. Yet, people like myself who grew up with digital realize how much better records sound. Why is this? I find that its odd. But I was only a small child when records were being replaced by digital formats as the mainstream purchase. However, I never cared for the sound of the digital as much.

[jimg0007]

there are 4 thing that matter to a medium 1. signal to noise ratio, cd wins2. dynamic range cd wins 3. timing errors. cd wins 4. distortion. cd wins. 1. cd 90dbs vs 60 dbs,

2. vinyl 70db vs 90 db 3. wow flutter and no turntable spins the same rpm, cd 90 to 100 below jitter happens 4. no record of no pops during vinyl playback cd of course not.

[VASINGER]

@jimg0007 CD does not win in terms of sound quality. And as far as pops and clcks, its relative to the type of needle you have and the sound equipment. Its bare minimal on a good system. The CDs have surface noise as well, if we can discuss the rotting of the medium to which clicks can be made, as well as the actual sound of the cd spinner in rotation. CDs can be louder. Other than that, they are plastic pieces of cheese.. They are okay for the general public who do not care about sound quality.

[buddybopper]

Someone please tell me he's kidding. Haha!

[Threemicsrecords]

CD's can go from 20Hz to20kHz but the higher frequencies go the less information is archived. For instance 10K is only sampled in 4 places (10.000 /44.100).

[Threemicsrecords]

CD's can go from 20Hz to20kHz but the higher frequencies go the less information is archived. For instance 10K is only sampled in 4 places (10.000 /44.100).

[Threemicsrecords]

Here is what I know. CD can sound really good, but unfortunately music companies think that louder is better. CD's can handle as much as 96dB of dynamic range while vinyl can only archive around 60dBs. Trick is that vinyls wont "allow" master engineers to use too much compressors, so they are simply force to leave it in tact. As for frequency reproduction vinyls don't go as low and high as CD can, but archive more details (harmonics) because recording process is linear vs digital steps.

[quanfool1]

CDs stuck on the groove? Your a FUCKING RETARD. If you want to make a decent argument try knowing what a cd is first. You are a HOMOSEXUAll SON OF A BITCH! P.S. lose weight, get a life, and a haircut.

[monumentfloyd]

yes indeed. Because its digital, not analog. When I stream video through my computer it distorts the sound a great deal.

[AnalogTim]

This is the funniest set of comments I've ever read - can't anyone else see this guy is totally taking the piss?

[producerben]

Myself, I love all formats as they all have their uses, even if it just be for their "own sound".I own a collection of turntables, an 8 track cartridge machine, 2 reel to reel machines, Quad 301. I also have cd players by Nad, Arcam, a 2TB HD full of mp3s. I don't own a single midi but do you catch me telling you "you're wrong"? You need to cut people some slack, if someone doesn't agree with you...so what? If you open youreyes you'll see other people in the world besides you

[producerben]

If we wanted to take this to another scenario, we could say that your vinyl playing at the beging is on an MCA "blue rainbow" label. These were around in the 80s, the artist recorded on the RCA label. That is NOT the original recording, it will have been "remastered" for a stereophonic record as it will have come off a mono source. All this work in the mastering suite/s would have been bounced down to DAT, which is Digital Audio Tape. Here you are saying it's great? a slight contridiction ->

[CoolDudeClem]

Records do have an inherently warmer sound to CD's, Another reason records sound better is that if you compare an original vinyl record and a remastered CD, the CD is usually compressed like you said and he vinyl is not. Compression does ruin the sound quality of music, i tried it myself with two recordings of the same song, one original and one "remastered", the original sounded waaaaaay better.

[lindenhu]

So you say, that because I don't embrace medieval technology that I'm behind the times? And it's because I'm old? Do you know how that sound? You think younger people are smarter than older. And it makes you sound, well, 23. You're a zealot and you're getting whacked out on this. Relax. Drink a beer. Get laid. Get a life. Maybe Obama will outlaw digital and you can get on with your dream life.

[monumentfloyd]

I never said you were old. I said you were making yourself sound old. Like Grandpa who says "eh vinyl is over with, I only listen to my trusty CDs". Most people I know who are Baby Boomers have this attitude. Its just because they dont wanna fumble with records. Records do require more care than CDs, but the life span is much greater as a result, and the experience is more enjoyable. Have you never heard of CD Rot? Do Cd players not make noise when you put them in? They certainly do.

[lindenhu]

I meant to say: "it's not my generation". That has totally nothing to do with it. I suspect it has more to do with what you're thinking. It's retro thinking for sure. Vinyl does have more sounds, but they're not the original content. Trust me, that's alway been my gripe. I spent too long hearing the original content, then hearing the vinyl. You need to hear "origin" then the "vinyl" to really know.

[monumentfloyd]

Im a musician. I just released my last single on CD and 7" Vinyl. The Vinyl sounds far superior to the CD version, even though they come from the same exact medium . Explain that.

[lindenhu]

Several points. Who mastered each? But, mainly, and most important, you're deeply in love with vinyl. It's ok. Take her out for a spin. Take her out on a date. Marry her. Spend your life with her, but your blind in love with vinyl. It's just rampant with tone arm resonance (that you like), rumble (that you think is content), vinyl whoosh that turns you on, high end splatter, wall through bleed (adjacent grooves modulate each other), . That's cool. It's a free country.

[VASINGER]

The studio engineer mastered it to a CD so that I could send that off for duplication, as the reel to reel tape master is important to not get lost. I listened to the tape, sounded great. Put the CD on, it sounded like a different recording. Its because its sampled sound. Oh, and you are really exaggerating with all this talk about rumble and flutter. Yes there is some. I also hear my CD player grinding away when it tries to spin something and the laser cant read the CD thats 2 years old.

[monumentfloyd]

I never said vinyl didnt have some limitations. It does scratch, yes. But so do CDs. In fact, Ive had CDs skip and get stuck far more than any records I have. Also, when it comes to surface noise, CDs can get CD Rot and make clicking sounds. CDs cannot be played back once they lose their digital information. Its GONE. Records can play , on the other hand, regardless.

[lindenhu]

I got your email. Not actually pissed about he age comment, was just messing with you. I enjoy the lively exchange about this subject. I have a 23 year old son who's freaky on vinyl too. But, me, I've been there. And, I'm an engineer, and I know.

[monumentfloyd]

thats exactly my point. Your generation grew up with it , and you feel its not progressive to bash that medium, and you think somehow CDs are superior. But they really aren't. In fact they have more draw backs. Actually CDs are a dinasour technology. But MP3s are even worse sound quality than CDs.

[lindenhu]

No, I'm a recording engineer. I spent decades in front of JBL 4425s (which I also have in my living room). Then I heard the vinyl scratch storm after mastering. Then we started mastering on CD and it was much more like the mixes from analog tape. Have you A/B-ed a mix that you recorded in a studio? No. It's "my generation". It's engineering. It's technological truth.

[monumentfloyd]

You just prefer digital because its easier. Its an easier medium to deal with. Its smaller, more compact. Its much easier to record on digital. You can "punch in" here and there, it takes up much less space. No tapes to deal with. But the sound is lacking. BIG TIME.

[lindenhu]

Trust me, all engineers know that MP3s are not superior. They were never invented to be superior. They're lossy digital files that were designed for ease of portability of data. That's all. Yes, CDs are old technology, but vinyl is medieval, trust me. Digital, however, is not going away. It's here to stay. Trust me. My entire industry has invested deeply in digital. We're not going back to little bits of steel scratching around on wax.

[monumentfloyd]

Digital is a joke, I'm sorry. Everyone knows analog is better. Digital is cheap and cheesy. I know . I make records myself ! I know all about it. Digital produces a flat sound. There is no comparison to vinyl and CD. Vinyl is better !

[SirFoggy2Doped]

Yeah I've just recently realized this myself!,LOL

I'm about to get a good table as soon as this latest bank deposit clears and have already ordered a few albums ^_^

[monumentfloyd]

Make you sure you get a really good turntable with anti-skate mechanism (helps with tracking and prevents skipping), and also one like a Pioneer is really good. The one in the video is a cheap 85$ one but it still does okay.

[monumentfloyd]

No , vinyl is superior. And the recording industry knows this too. Thats why more artists are releasing on vinyl. Vinyl lasts forever. CDs have a shelf life of 20 years max. CDs are a joke. I remember in the late 80s when we got our first CD player. Needless to say we went back to recorss. Most people who are not familiar with good sound quality, buy CDs because its what the industry provides. The CDs only advantage is that its smaller and you can play it in your car.

[lindenhu]

You just emailed me with "why do CDs sound so tinny compared to vinyl. With no argument intended, here are the facts: you are hearing artifacts and technical clutter. The turntable rumble is perceived a pleasant low end to many. It's part of the experience. Then there's cartridge arm resonance which "rumbles and combs" into what some perceive as a pleasant experience. This is why vinyl is not true. But many like the experience. Just facts.

[monumentfloyd]

No, im actually hearing rich tonality and better sound quality.

[lindenhu]

I meant to say "digital to floor ratio".

[lindenhu]

They do not have to cut back on the dynamic range to get music on a cd. In fact, I worked in studios and mastered vinyls back in the early 70s and we used compression then for studio work and mastering to get past technical limitations of vinyl. Also, the bass gets artificially panned to the center when mastering vinyl, for technical reasons. Digital recording actually has more dynamic signal to floor ration than vinyl. Just true.

[monumentfloyd]

You now, dynamic range is just a fancy name for how loud playback sound is. Thats it. I have played the same cd on my stereo and then I played the LP of the same recording. The difference? For the LP i had to turn up the volume slightly. Thats all it was. Who needs bass? Frankly, if anything, over bass is what distorts a recording. As in most CDs are way too hot and almost screechy on playback. I prefer the natural sound of vinyl. Yes, the bass is cut back and it sounds better !

[lindenhu]

Dynamic range is not how loud playback is. Dynamic range is the dynamic distance from the noise floor to the loudest peak. Record player cartridges use a preamp that boosts the output (it's in your playback amp). Otherwise, the cartridge level would be way to low to work. That is the only reason you have more level for playback. You're confusing device output level, with dynamic range.

[monumentfloyd]

That sounds exactly like how loud something is to me. You can call it what you want. Its simply volume output. You get more frequencies with analog than you do digital. Digital is compressed sound. Analog has more mid rang frequencies which makes the sound natural and balanced. You probably are older so you have some kind of nag against records. Younger people can appreciate it more.

[lindenhu]

That's a sad thing to say, but the joke is on you. I am older, and I apologize for that (if I must). And I grew up with vinyl. In fact, I have been a recording engineer for 40 years and mixed hundreds of vinyls in the seventies. If you just like the "sound" of vinyl, then that's ok. Don't freak. You'll be ok.

[lindenhu]

In the seventies we (recording engineers) crossed our fingers when we sent off master tapes to be put on vinyl. We were almost always disappointed when the test vinyl came back. When digital mastering came out, we were excited because the CDs (played over our studio monitors) sounded very much like what we heard in our studio monitors after making the final mix. Honest. Not joking. Don't be sad.

[bythebytheway]

Records will always sound better and do because it is true real sound direct from the recording studio to the master to the contact that the styli and record connect. Tuly amazing comments. You don't even pause between your words to say 'uum' you speak your experiences and yes even recording records onto tape is still true sound. Records can even play so loud and still have true sound, digital when played loud sound distorted somehow and do skip and cd's will wear out, eventually ? Thanks !

[greeneyefull]

pops and clicks can be caused by dirty goves ,a properly cleaned lp makes a big difference ,but most folks do not even think about that.New lps are supposed to be cleaned before you even pay them

[monumentfloyd]

You heard it here , folks !

[greeneyefull]

I meant to say "play them"

[liquidsord23]

cd can sound good with the right amount of money but it will never sound as good as vinyl

[ososlsls]

Records are the best and you sir, are a champion.

[1pick2sticks]

I have tried to explain this to people, but they still believe that there is not difference in MP3 and records. My conclusion is that these people really don't listen to music the way someone with "ears" do.

[IceColdFreezie]

You're right. As of now, i'm selling my mp3 player, deleting my music, and buying a turntable and records of my favorite songs. I'm sure its convenient and portable enough for everyday use, right?

[Foebane72]

Vinyl looks aesthetically pleasing, but is big and bulky. I prefer my music to be mobile, thanks.

[monumentfloyd]

well then, enjoy your compressed sound.

[Foebane72]

MonumentFloyd, you have to understand that only a tiny fraction of my music has ever BEEN on Vinyl. Most of it is of digital origin, like computer music, which I'm a huge fan of - and frankly, I doubt putting it on Vinyl would make any difference, as so much of it is low in fidelity anyway. Some of it is just beepy, literally (look up "chip-tune").

So that's why my collection is perfectly suited to MP3s, as it converts well.

[peckishere]

you're right, putting mp3s and other compression files onto vinyl wont make any difference to the audio quality but using the master recordings that sample at a much higher bit rate than CD's will definitely sound better on vinyl. vinyl can handle any bit rate whereas CD's can only handle 16 bit audio

[Foebane72]

Well, Super Audio CD is far better than CD, with a sampling rate of 96KHz and 24-bit and multiple channels rather than stereo - but it was a failure, probably because most people were happy with plain old stereo 16-bit 44.1KHz CD sound. Or they couldn't tell the difference.

Therefore, CD must be good enough.

[peckishere]

I agree, CD is good enough but not as good as Vinyl

i think SACD failed because the players were so expensive and so were the discs, another reason why i think it failed was that you couldn't play them through your PC or MAC and therefore it limited them to HI-Fi equipment only which was bad seeing as they were released just as listening to music on computers became popular

[lindenhu]

Super CD was a failure for the same reason quadraphonic sound was a failure in the 70's. Yes, quadraphonic sound was released and marketed big in the 70's and flopped. People were'nt there yet. With 44.1 sample freq, the high end is 22,000 cycles. Can we hear higher? No. We can not.

[monumentfloyd]

Its not just the experience of the vinyl thats better its the actual tonality and sound. CDs are samplings of sound waves. Records may have surface noise on occassion, but they provide a true sound because its a continous spectrum of sound. So when you listen to a CD, its bits and pieces of music. Most people who dont have sensitive ears wont notice, but people such as myself do.

[lindenhu]

You're not understanding what's happening in digital, you don't get it. The samples are extremely fast, then are reconstructed BACK into waveforms and smoothed with a filter. So, it's not pieces, no more than a digital tv picture is pieces. Whereas, vinyl uses all kinds of filters to smooth out it's flaws. Like sibilance, for example. Vinyl requires special filters to taper the highs because vinyl can't handle it. Certain other frequencies are tapered because the cutter head will jump up.

[monumentfloyd]

Digital sound awful. Im sorry but it does. Why is this hard for you to accept? Its okay for casual listening, but in the long run its jarring. If you're comparing analog to digital this is true with television. I have an HDTV (yeah right). The picture is often watery. In action scenes, its almost pixelating and distorted. While analog may have that "white snow" , overall the picture is deeper, more resonant, more NATURAL. That is my point.

[SirFoggy2Doped]

HDTV technology isn't really ready for large screen use....

I have a 22 inch LCD monitor with a 5 Millisecond response time and it looks really good:)

It's not even official"HD" and it's not perfect but it generally performs great for me:)

However,bigger screens are still slow and not that good yet...

It'll get better and cheaper in a few years and that's when I'll go get me an HD ^_^

'Till then I'll watch movies on my computer ;)

[lucifursam]

Right on, brother! I totally agree, and it's a shame that people today can't hear the difference or aren't willing to even bother with records. I sold all of my CDs years ago, and I only buy vinyl LPs now. CDs will soon be a thing of the past because of digital downloading and mp3s, but vinyl will live on forever and always sound better! Great Patsy Cline tune, by the way!

[averagejoe0073]

Meade your discussion and infatuation with needles and crack hos has me concerned.

[wilkes85]

Analogue IS better. With a well-maintained machine, and a well-maintained record/cassette/8 track, the sound quality will blow away any the sound of any digital shit.

CDs have a bland, lifeless sound to them.

[bspanthers]

Meade, cd's sound better man, you gotta wake up and realize that

[monumentfloyd]

Yer joking right? They sound like crap.

[Gwynne66]

lol

"sound gliches" that miraculously happen to sound exactly like the sort of pops and clicks one gets from a vinyl LP?

Oh, and whatever mechanical noises a CD player may make, none of it is part of the actual audio signal. An LPs noise is actually part of the audio signal.

[monumentfloyd]

You're right, its part of the CD degrading so much that the laser can't read them anymore.

[Gwynne66]

Degraded CDs? I have CDs than are more than 20 years old and sound exactly like they did the first time they were played. The same cannot be said of LPs. Every time you play an LP, the stylus wears the groove a little and the quality of the recording diminishes.

[monumentfloyd]

No, it does not. Records do not wear down with play. They wear down from other exposure and careless use. Scratches dont come from play, they come from careless use of records. Yes, CDs sound like crap from the day they are made til 20 years from now, lol.

[Gwynne66]

You keep saying that records don't wear down with play. That's simply not true. Do you have any idea how records actually work? Evidently not. The stylus wears down the signal recorded in the groove with every play. If you played a record continuously, the groove would not only eventually wear flat - the stylus would eventually wear its way entirely through the record. Mechanical wear is inevitable with LPs and yet it is non-existant with CDs.

[monumentfloyd]

If that were true then my records from 40-50 years ago would be unplayable.

[VASINGER]

You grew up with vinyl. You hate it. I grew up with CDs. I hate them. I see a trend here. I used to think CDs sounded better. I really did. They dont . They suck. I hate to use such language but I feel so strongly about it I just have to say it. They really dont sound better. They were made for convenience , not sound quality. In fact they are compromised sound quality. The industry knew this from the start. I love Vinyl and Im never going back to digital ever again.

[Gwynne66]

So... do you have any actual facts on your side? Of course not... just prejudice. The facts don't support your position.  CD's hugely outperform LPs in every single aspect of fidelity. That is a fact. CDs have better dynamic range, better S/N ratio, less distortion, etc. etc.

[monumentfloyd]

I have MY EARS. Which while listening to music can tell how much quality is the in the recording. CDs sound AWFUL. It is fact, and many people will agree with me. Im gonna post a clip of a CD vs LP of the same song, and you can hear the difference even through the video camera. CDs sound like the music is coming from a tin can.

[monumentfloyd]

Even on this highly compressed digitalized audio on youtube, you can hear how fuller and richer, and simply more natural an LP sounds compared to a CD.

[Foebane72]

You posted this only because you're losing the argument on IMDb's Formats board. You KNOW you are.

[Gwynne66]

Seriously... I can hear the clicks and pops even though the YouTube compression. How sad is that?

[monumentfloyd]

Nonesense. When I stream video through my computer there are audio glitches and bumps in the audio. There is no surface noise on my clean Lps. This one which is incidently 28 years old. About my age.

[Gwynne66]

Dude, I can hear the clicks and pops in that record over YouTube. Give it a rest.

[monumentfloyd]

No, you cant. There arent any.

[Gwynne66]

I used to listen to record. I know what surface noise sounds like and I can hear it through your video.

Incidentally, how is it you think that people can hear how "good" your analog records sound when you're recording them digitally and posting them here?

[monumentfloyd]

What surface noise? There is none. The only noise was when the stylus was placed on the record. Even if there was surface noise, its totally minimal and it STILL SOUNDS BETTER than a sterile harsh cold compressed sounding CD.

[Gwynne66]

The "minimal" surface noise LPs have is infinitely greated than the zero surface noise of CDs.

Look, just because you're used to the limited fidelity of LPs and your primitive equipment doesn't change the fact that CD fidelity is greater.

[monumentfloyd]

Actually Im used to the High Fidelity of LPs, thats why its harder for me to listen to CDs.

And yes- that isnt even my best turntable. Its not even 100$ . But it STILL sounds better than a CD.

[Gwynne66]

You've got it backward, the fidelity of a CD is higher than an LP - especially one played on such a low-end turntable.

LP: 65Hz-18,000Hz.

Your LP: about 120Hz to about 16,000 Hz

CD: about 5Hz to about 22,000 Hz

See?

You think it sounds better because it leaves out the very low and very high frequencies. You hear these as "harshness". The rest of the world hears them as "clarity".

[monumentfloyd]

Those figures mean nothing. Because the actual sound a CD produces is crap. And many people would agree with me. Those who are in the know.

Actually, if you're talking low end, I hear more bass from my records than CDs.

[Gwynne66]

lol

The figures mean nothing? My 300bhp Jaguar with its 4.0 liter V-8 has no chance of keeping up with a 100bhp Toyota with its 1.8 liter four???

People in the know? Tell you what junior... I am one of those people. I've was playing and recording music when you were learning to walk. I have recorded on analog tape, digital tape, RAM, hard drives and just about anything else that will take a signal. I've thrown away more hi-fi equipment than you'll ever own.

You're wrong.

[monumentfloyd]

Ive listened to the video 20 times. Im still waiting to hear the "pop" and "click"

[Gwynne66]

You're used to the pops and clicks by now, you don't consciously hear them.

[monumentfloyd]

Actually, I do hear them. But when the music is playing you cant hear them. And not on this record.The sound the record makes is outstanding, and the surface voice, as well as wow and flutter are almost inaudible on a good turntable.

[Gwynne66]

When the music is playing you can still hear them, you're just partially distracted by the music.

But at least you admit that you were lying before when you said you couldn't hear the pops and clicks.

Wow and flutter is *almost* inaudible on a good turntable. You have two problem there:

1. There is a huge difference between "almost inaudible" and "inaudible".

2. You don't have a good turntable.

[monumentfloyd]

No,I never said such a thing. I said that when I stream audio through my computer, there are sound glitches. There are NO pops and clicks during the music being played. I have keen ears. However, there are plenty of grinding noises and clicking when I put some CDs into my CD player. Way worse than any surface noise that ever existed on a turntable.

[vinylman86]

if it wasn't for phonograph, recorded sound would never exist and that includes cds. i have a cd collection, but i play my vinyls more often. monumentfloyd's right cd doesn't have the fully-fidelity like records and btw the pops and click are awesome too. besides, audio gear made today are a P.O.S!

[monumentfloyd]

"The "minimal" surface noise LPs have is infinitely greated than the zero surface noise of CDs."

Um, try telling that to my CDs that click in my CD player, making grinding noises, and then refuse to play at all.

[Gwynne66]

(sigh)

I guess you don't understand the concept of surface noise and the difference between noise in the playback signal and ambient noise from the equipment that is not part of the playback signal.

[monumentfloyd]

You dont realize that you're talking to someone who GREW UP with compact discs, not the other way 'round. You think I prefer LPs because Im used to their sound. Not true. Granted in 1979, vinyl was still King, but by the time I was old enough to buy music for myself CDs ruled the roost. And I got used to their harsh compressed sound. Only a few years ago when I got back into records did I realize what I was missing. Now CDs sound awful to me, because I am used to the deep, rich tonality of LPs

[Gwynne66]

You mean you're used to the limited fidelity of LPs. That's fine but why do you pretend that LPs have higher fidelity than CDs when the opposite is obviously the case?

You still don't seem to understand the difference between mechanical noise that isn't part of the audio signal and the noise that the LP format adds to the signal.

Also, you should stop talking about compression until you understand what you're talking about there. You sound ridiculous.

[monumentfloyd]

NO. I was used to the limited fidelity of CDs. Then I switched to LPs and saw the light. Not to mention the warmer sound, the richer one, and simply how much more fun it is to play a record.

[Gwynne66]

It is one thing to prefer the sound of records, but why do you have to cling to a lie? You can prefer the sound of records if you like but you can't pretend that they have better fidelity because they simply don't. This has been proven to you repeately and yet you refuse to accept reality. Why is that?

[monumentfloyd]

Then why are records called "Hi Fidelity" and CDs are not? Why is my Fisher Stereo called a Hi Fi? It certainly sounds better than any CD I have heard, thats for sure.

[lindenhu]

Hi Fi is an old marketing buzz phrase. Really, it is. I was there. When Hi Fi systems first came out, they didn't even have tweeters. Modern equipment has distanced itself from this old phrase.

[monumentfloyd]

Why do CDs sound so tinny then when compared to Vinyl records? Regardless if its digital or analog, you can still hear a difference .

[producerben]

it all depends if you play it on a $80 system or an $8000 system. All in one systems have cheap cd transports in with poor DACs. this is something to tak into account

[producerben]

It depends from what era you're speaking of. As lindenhu correctly says, it's one of the many buzz words or "slogans" they used to sell the record companies particular brand of recording. Everything from FFSS through to studio 2 stereo and beyond, all became to be sumerised under the heading of STEREO

[lindenhu]

How many times have you enjoyed an LP only to find out that the original recording was digital? How many. How do you explain that you liked the LP? Was it the experience of vinyl rushing by and turntable rumble. That's usually what LP folks get hooked on.

[monumentfloyd]

Even if its recorded digitally, it will become a hybrid when its played back on an analog medium, since the needle produces sound waves which are continuous. Oh, and sorry about the age comment. But it does seem older people are hung up about records for some reason. CDs are on the way out again and they are so cheesy to start with.

[monumentfloyd]

yes, but my point is that noise is much more noticeable than any imaginary "surface noise" you're claiming to hear on this record. A CD making a grinding noise and clicking is just unlistenable.

[Gwynne66]

It is also the sign of a CD player that needs repair.

[monumentfloyd]

No, its done it in multiple cd players I have.

[producerben]

That will be down to how you care for your CDs in general and the cd transport. It's like comparing a garrard MKII with a Michell Orb. As will ALL electroncs, you need to tak care of them. They treat you how you treat them....bit like life really

[monumentfloyd]

Once a CD has been badly scratch its gone. The laser cannot read the disc on most standard players. However, records can always play. The CDs I have that I take average care of (ie like the average consumer) - most are no longer playable. While I do take better care of my records, I can play them scuffed scratched, and minimized surface noise on a stereo console that absorbs it all.

[producerben]

As with ALL media, it needs to be taken care of.You've just admitted that you take more care of your vinyl than you do your cds which is why they outlast. The phallasy that cds are indestructable died in, well, 1985.They are as sensitive as vinyl and all other media - Avoid direct sunlight, adverse weather conditions, always replace in it's case, the list goes on.A lightly scuffed cd should not miss-track or be useless, as with styli, lenses also need to be cared for and regularly maintained.

[SlimeTron5000]

Also, when a CD gets stuck, it sounds very annoying. Befored I cleaned the lens, it sounded like this: "I-i-i-m-m-m-m-a-a-a-a-a-g-g-g­-i-n-n-n-n-n-e-e-e-e t-t-t-t-h-h-h..."

[VASINGER]

@SlimeTron5000 exactly, but CD lovers will never negotiate here. Apparently, only records can have surface noise in their minds.

[SlimeTron5000]

@VASINGER Lots of compact discs marketed now have horrendous mastering and loudness levels as the environment is saturated. Consumers are apathetic and instead move on. Yet, the 44100 hertz sampling rate was decided for maths regarding the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem and the selection is necessary to respond to frequencies 20 hertz to 20,000. 44100 has a Nyquist frequency of 22,050 (÷2). The early compact discs were mastered on Sony uMatic video tape. (cont.)

[SlimeTron5000]

@VASINGER 44,100 was also a standard digital PAL video signal to PCM adaptors. It has a bitrate of 1411 kbit/s. The NTSC version was 44,056 with a Nyquist frequency of 22,000 hertz. PAL had 294 lines by 50 fields x 3 = 44,100 per channel. The early European compact disc players could only reproduce 14-bits.

The general ranges for phonograph cartridges on records respond from 20 hertz to 22,000 hertz alike 44.1, as higher end cartridges are intended to reproduce more. The cutting head has to...

[VASINGER]

@SlimeTron5000 The human ear, however, cant pick up all the ranges. But the records tend to favor the mid ranges, which the human ear picks up the most, and that is why overall the sound produced is more enjoyable. Also, a badly scratched record might not sound great, but at least you can play it, whereas once a cd is damaged its gone forever.

[SlimeTron5000]

@VASINGER rapid and quick. The mastering can also count, as a poorly sounding CD can be outperformed by a well sound LP from at least three decades ago. There is nothing wrong listening to records, long as they are cared properly alongside CDs. I still believe analogue is warmer and does not have bits chopped like digital as they need dithering and quantisation for compensation. No DRM as well (hic hic hic!). For the lack of cover size, managements make enhanced CD with bonus content yet there..

[VASINGER]

@SlimeTron5000 That is true. A CD recording might sound better if it had been mastered and recorded on a tape machine first. Im a musician and I release both vinyl and cds. The master is finally put on a cd, but it was recorded on tape, and the tape machine makes all the difference in the world. When you play the CDs, they have a richer sound than normal. I think that records do have their limitations. But isn't it simply more fun to play a record than a CD? I think so.

[spydey550]

@VASINGER There are three levels in the recording process... One; laying down the tracks,Two; mixing all the tracks together, Three the final product i.e., a record, a tape, or a CD. On the label of any CD you will see a code.. so to speak.. AAD, ADD, or DDD. Each letter represents Analog or Digital in the 3 step recording process. Today all you will see for the most part is DDD. The recording was in digital format throughout the recording process.

[spydey550]

@VASINGER This was because the D/A converters were so at the elementary level. The information often did not even convert to a true 16 bit. Anyway thats my 2 bits.. Personally I am and always will be an analog fan.. the sound is simply more natural and engaging. Heres one for all of you... check out the Vinyl of "Bop till you Drop" by Ry Cooder.. it was Layed down in digital and converted back(A/D) then pressed to vinyl! Go figure. Happy Listening

[SlimeTron5000]

@VASINGER ...are listeners without computers. Monumentfloyd could buy a higher quality stereo system.

[Novasterling]

Great post! I love vinyl records and I collect them myself. I gave up CDs years ago. I think that on a great turntable records just trump CDs in every way. That guy must be on drugs because I dont hear any clicks either.

[Gwynne66]

I guess your ears aren't very good either. Perhaps that's why you prefer LPs to CDs.

[monumentfloyd]

What? I dont know what that is.

[vinylman86]

right on!!!!!!! i stick with vinyls and cassettes.