Typically this would not happen as the RBCD round would expand and expend its kinetic energy within the intruder. If it missed the intruder, you most likely need to get back out on the range and practice more :). Check out the video again, in particular the shots fired through sheet rock into the clay as while the round will penetrate the first wall of sheet rock, it will not exit the clay. From our experience, a second sheet rock wall is enough to stop the bullet if it does miss the target.
As a personal defense round these are wonderful, but I don't use the RBCD in my home defense pistol. I wouldn't want the round passing through the intruder, through a wall, and into someone sleeping in the next room. But yeah... these things are baddass in just about every other scenario.
@vanzpp It would depend on what you intend to use the round for I would guess. Home defense is my primary concern, so a +P round would seem to be a bit of overkill as compared to a lighter, frangible round like the RBCD. The RBCD still retains enough kinetic energy to do the job at the ranges one would expect to encounter inside the average home, and still protect those outside from possible injury. A double tap at 10-15' range should suffice in most cases....
@joe1281949 Just came across this vid, and while the civilian rounds are not ap, I do recall seeing some impressive results down at their shop on some steel plates, I recall hydrashok, federal ball, among others having the same results on 1/8" steel plates, in a few pistol calibers, stopped cold, and the RBCD civilian rounds seemed to cut it like butter, along with that kinetic energy it imparts on targets with water value. Really pretty amazing!
Some of the comments that have been made fail to take into consideration that these tests were "real world" ones. They show what actually happens when using the ammo, and not some staged demonstration with some agenda beyond showing the results of the shoot. Was I impressed by the results shown during the tests? YES!! Would I spend the money to use this ammo in a real world home protection scenario? YOU BETCHA!!!! Does it do the job it was created for? DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!
I've worked private security in Iraq, and currently in Israel. I've never seen it used. If it's a state department contract, it can't be used. Only DOS approved ammo can. Who have you seen using this?
Yes it is true read the facts on comments/reviews on RBCD web from agents or security .or just call them. but you will not be able to order the special application ammunition,it is only for military and law enforcement.the 5.56 is weak and different contractors are trying different types of rounds.this is a blended metal armor piercing but will not pass through a human torso. i quote (its like a miniature grenade),devoloped by Le mas in arkansas( APLSs)soled by RBCD in san antonio
About the special app ammo, I called RBCD and asked what the difference was. They told me it's custom made according to each customer's specs.. It is reserved for Law Enforcement and Military and is only avail in very large quantities of 50,000 rounds or more, because they have to completely change the entire manufacturing process for that one customer. But darn it, I forgot to ask if it's only the special ammo that's armor piercing like in this video..
@fullautoarmalite no its not and never has been, this ammo never passed the requirements outlined by the DOD, FBI, NSA, and homeland security. This ammo will not penetrate the minimum of 12 inches of ballistic gel in order to pass. also because of the low low recoil, there are alot of feeding issues. The performance of this ammo is purely hype.
@zooders OK, once again this ammo was used back, what now its been 8 to 10 years ago by Private Security Forces, you are not allowed to own it. look up Blackwater RBCD, also there is an artical in Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army and yes it penetrates 12 inches of gell, even after going through steel, here look it up.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268678, don't use it if you don't like it but for sake try it out for yourself first.
@fullautoarmalite i have used it. alot actually, i bought into it for a while too. i have fired over 1000 rounds of their 9mm, their 45, their 223, and their 308. The only one worth anything was the 308, it performed pretty good, but not great. They arent accurate past ranges of 40 yards for the pistol and 300 for the rifle. they all have very poor penetration not to mention most wont penetrate 3 water jugs leaving it at about 12 inches of water penetration or 6 inches of gell
@zooders Like i sayed, you cant buy the good stuff, its only sold to people with the right papers, so i don't worry about it, its been 10 years since this info was put out, there are allot of fragmentable ammo companies now and there is no amazing exploding ammo anymore, the laws would forbid it, just stock up an ammo, any ammo, before the laws forbid that also, i use Hornady in my 30-30 and RBCD in my Kimber TLE/II and my Glock 19-C for in home only.
@fullautoarmalite really, seeing as how when you say paper you mean credentials...trust me ive got a lot of em. my research has shown that this ammo is trash hyped bullshit. youll have better luck with heavier bullets...thats why i now swage my own copper and custom build my own ammo
Last time I checked with Steve, pistol rounds were $38 per box of 20. High, and not to be used for general target shooting by any means. His price may vary of course, so get it direct from him for the very latest. Rifle rounds are slightly higher too.
i've been talking to steve. real nice guy. yeah, i asked him about .308 winchester rbcd shells. he said they were about $44 for 20 rounds. expensive, but i'm sure they're worth it.
Recoil is not significantly higher due to lower bullet weights. Lower weight bullet means higher velocity for a given powder charge. Still a contender for home defense usage.
I tested it on pork water and metal and it performs as advertised. To the people that think that it does not penetrate enough I got anywhere from 8-10" on pork but here is the thing about 2-4 inches of flesh had turned into some kind of weird looking mush..
Sounds like the RBCD had provided great kinetic energy transfer to the pork. I just wonder how deep a penetration some people expect though. A center mass double tap would pulverize the impact area with an untreatable wound more than deep enough to stop a perp DEAD in their tracks. Yet, people in other rooms or homes would still be much safer as the RBCD would have alot less tendency to over penetrate and cause peripheral damage. What more can you ask from a personal defense round than that?
I keep my Sig p-229 with a 5in Bar-sto barrel in the Superb 357sig full of RBCD 60gr@2540fps.Superb for puting al-Qaeda militents in the dirt!!lol Long Live the USA!!!
How deep is the penetration? I know that pistol rounds have inadequate penetration, that's why the standard procedure is a double-tap or a controlled pair to the center mass.
If it expands too much and too little penetration, the expansion can be less useful than a FMJ round.
Looks like a great product, but I'm a bit concerned about under penetration.
A good example would be trying to stop a 300 lbs + guy. The round seems to be only penetrating a couple inches, and while the temporary stretch cavity looks impressive, it may not be enough to drop the subject with one round (but I bet it would piss him off)
Well, just how deep a penetration is really needed to kill someone. Center mass, it would seem that even a two to four inch depth of penetration would be enough to totally shred a perps heart. The video clearly shows that there is a huge amount of kinetic energy being transferred into the various targets, and I for one would not want to have even a temporary stretch cavity induced into my chest or abdomen, or skull either, seems it would be rather devastating to say the least.
I am going up to 29 Palms for a visit, and will check prices at my Brothers gunshop. If I can get the current price list, I will make it available. As far as its effectiveness, all I can say is that "real world" examples have sold me on its use for home defense. I am personally confident that it has the stopping power needed in both 9mm and 45cal that would put an assailant down and keep them there.
So how much is this stuff? I have been reading around and have found that yes, it seems impressive, but it lacks necessary penetration. I have seen examples online with gel and water. Any more insight?
This video showed real world testing, and it is difficult to argue with the displayed results I would think. I was impressed when I edited the video, and am still impressed and use the ammo for home defense.
The 9mm was 60gr., and the 45ACP was 90gr. This was the standard civilian issue available over the counter. More ballistic info can be had from the RBCD website. Thanks for your comment.
yeah I got some of that stuff if you really want to see how good it works get some fresh bloody pork and an umbrella. I like the 9mm better. Have you tried it on the door?
I did not try it on the door myself, but did see Steve (owner of Donnell's) shoot into a number of different things, including a shoulder of port. Messy, very messy. Did not have camera set up for that one. This stuff may not be for everyone, but it IS great for home defense for sure....
Where do you buy RBCD ammo? What grain do you use?
freddiebear48 1 month ago
Typically this would not happen as the RBCD round would expand and expend its kinetic energy within the intruder. If it missed the intruder, you most likely need to get back out on the range and practice more :). Check out the video again, in particular the shots fired through sheet rock into the clay as while the round will penetrate the first wall of sheet rock, it will not exit the clay. From our experience, a second sheet rock wall is enough to stop the bullet if it does miss the target.
joe1281949 7 months ago
As a personal defense round these are wonderful, but I don't use the RBCD in my home defense pistol. I wouldn't want the round passing through the intruder, through a wall, and into someone sleeping in the next room. But yeah... these things are baddass in just about every other scenario.
FarmerSteveJr 7 months ago
@vanzpp It would depend on what you intend to use the round for I would guess. Home defense is my primary concern, so a +P round would seem to be a bit of overkill as compared to a lighter, frangible round like the RBCD. The RBCD still retains enough kinetic energy to do the job at the ranges one would expect to encounter inside the average home, and still protect those outside from possible injury. A double tap at 10-15' range should suffice in most cases....
joe1281949 1 year ago
@joe1281949 Just came across this vid, and while the civilian rounds are not ap, I do recall seeing some impressive results down at their shop on some steel plates, I recall hydrashok, federal ball, among others having the same results on 1/8" steel plates, in a few pistol calibers, stopped cold, and the RBCD civilian rounds seemed to cut it like butter, along with that kinetic energy it imparts on targets with water value. Really pretty amazing!
jvamp69 1 year ago
Interesting.
I carry the Magsafe +P Stealth load in my Kahr CW9. How would a load like RBCD be a better choice?
vanzpp 1 year ago
Good video
azweaponsite 2 years ago
Some of the comments that have been made fail to take into consideration that these tests were "real world" ones. They show what actually happens when using the ammo, and not some staged demonstration with some agenda beyond showing the results of the shoot. Was I impressed by the results shown during the tests? YES!! Would I spend the money to use this ammo in a real world home protection scenario? YOU BETCHA!!!! Does it do the job it was created for? DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!
joe1281949 2 years ago
Most all private security in iraq and in U.S.use this ammo,two thumbs up 1-877-688-5985
fullautoarmalite 3 years ago
I've worked private security in Iraq, and currently in Israel. I've never seen it used. If it's a state department contract, it can't be used. Only DOS approved ammo can. Who have you seen using this?
firejoe3 3 years ago 2
Yes it is true read the facts on comments/reviews on RBCD web from agents or security .or just call them. but you will not be able to order the special application ammunition,it is only for military and law enforcement.the 5.56 is weak and different contractors are trying different types of rounds.this is a blended metal armor piercing but will not pass through a human torso. i quote (its like a miniature grenade),devoloped by Le mas in arkansas( APLSs)soled by RBCD in san antonio
fullautoarmalite 3 years ago
About the special app ammo, I called RBCD and asked what the difference was. They told me it's custom made according to each customer's specs.. It is reserved for Law Enforcement and Military and is only avail in very large quantities of 50,000 rounds or more, because they have to completely change the entire manufacturing process for that one customer. But darn it, I forgot to ask if it's only the special ammo that's armor piercing like in this video..
1qimds 3 years ago
@fullautoarmalite no its not and never has been, this ammo never passed the requirements outlined by the DOD, FBI, NSA, and homeland security. This ammo will not penetrate the minimum of 12 inches of ballistic gel in order to pass. also because of the low low recoil, there are alot of feeding issues. The performance of this ammo is purely hype.
zooders 1 week ago
@zooders OK, once again this ammo was used back, what now its been 8 to 10 years ago by Private Security Forces, you are not allowed to own it. look up Blackwater RBCD, also there is an artical in Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army and yes it penetrates 12 inches of gell, even after going through steel, here look it up.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268678, don't use it if you don't like it but for sake try it out for yourself first.
fullautoarmalite 1 week ago
@fullautoarmalite i have used it. alot actually, i bought into it for a while too. i have fired over 1000 rounds of their 9mm, their 45, their 223, and their 308. The only one worth anything was the 308, it performed pretty good, but not great. They arent accurate past ranges of 40 yards for the pistol and 300 for the rifle. they all have very poor penetration not to mention most wont penetrate 3 water jugs leaving it at about 12 inches of water penetration or 6 inches of gell
zooders 1 week ago
@zooders Like i sayed, you cant buy the good stuff, its only sold to people with the right papers, so i don't worry about it, its been 10 years since this info was put out, there are allot of fragmentable ammo companies now and there is no amazing exploding ammo anymore, the laws would forbid it, just stock up an ammo, any ammo, before the laws forbid that also, i use Hornady in my 30-30 and RBCD in my Kimber TLE/II and my Glock 19-C for in home only.
fullautoarmalite 1 week ago
@fullautoarmalite really, seeing as how when you say paper you mean credentials...trust me ive got a lot of em. my research has shown that this ammo is trash hyped bullshit. youll have better luck with heavier bullets...thats why i now swage my own copper and custom build my own ammo
zooders 1 week ago
Last time I checked with Steve, pistol rounds were $38 per box of 20. High, and not to be used for general target shooting by any means. His price may vary of course, so get it direct from him for the very latest. Rifle rounds are slightly higher too.
joe1281949 4 years ago
i've been talking to steve. real nice guy. yeah, i asked him about .308 winchester rbcd shells. he said they were about $44 for 20 rounds. expensive, but i'm sure they're worth it.
pinhead61187 4 years ago
how was the recoil?
pinhead61187 4 years ago
Recoil is not significantly higher due to lower bullet weights. Lower weight bullet means higher velocity for a given powder charge. Still a contender for home defense usage.
joe1281949 4 years ago
yeah, definitely would be good for home defence. do you know if they make a round for .357 magnum? i plan on getting a
Ruger GP-100 next year sometime. is this round civilian-legal yet?
pinhead61187 4 years ago
Visit donnellsshootingsupply DOT com for info. Yes it is available in .357 Magnum, and is 100% legal to use.
joe1281949 4 years ago
thanks, i emailed them and am waiting for a reply. how is the price?
pinhead61187 4 years ago
Recoil is minimal using the .45 and .357 mag. It's a smooth dangerous ride. Especially for anyone on the wrong end.
Zolmaz 7 months ago
@Zolmaz thanks. does it cycle reliably? my dad is looking for some home defense rounds for his glock 23.
pinhead61187 7 months ago
@pinhead61187 I've never had a hangup with my Kimber Ultra.
Zolmaz 7 months ago
I tested it on pork water and metal and it performs as advertised. To the people that think that it does not penetrate enough I got anywhere from 8-10" on pork but here is the thing about 2-4 inches of flesh had turned into some kind of weird looking mush..
1lostinspace 4 years ago
Sounds like the RBCD had provided great kinetic energy transfer to the pork. I just wonder how deep a penetration some people expect though. A center mass double tap would pulverize the impact area with an untreatable wound more than deep enough to stop a perp DEAD in their tracks. Yet, people in other rooms or homes would still be much safer as the RBCD would have alot less tendency to over penetrate and cause peripheral damage. What more can you ask from a personal defense round than that?
joe1281949 4 years ago
I keep my Sig p-229 with a 5in Bar-sto barrel in the Superb 357sig full of RBCD 60gr@2540fps.Superb for puting al-Qaeda militents in the dirt!!lol Long Live the USA!!!
DeathtoHamas 4 years ago
i must say, i like your screenname.
pinhead61187 4 years ago
How deep is the penetration? I know that pistol rounds have inadequate penetration, that's why the standard procedure is a double-tap or a controlled pair to the center mass.
If it expands too much and too little penetration, the expansion can be less useful than a FMJ round.
Liist 4 years ago
Check out the RBCD website for full ballistics info on pistol and rifle rounds. Can't post it here for some reason.
joe1281949 4 years ago
Looks like a great product, but I'm a bit concerned about under penetration.
A good example would be trying to stop a 300 lbs + guy. The round seems to be only penetrating a couple inches, and while the temporary stretch cavity looks impressive, it may not be enough to drop the subject with one round (but I bet it would piss him off)
weaponeer 4 years ago
Well, just how deep a penetration is really needed to kill someone. Center mass, it would seem that even a two to four inch depth of penetration would be enough to totally shred a perps heart. The video clearly shows that there is a huge amount of kinetic energy being transferred into the various targets, and I for one would not want to have even a temporary stretch cavity induced into my chest or abdomen, or skull either, seems it would be rather devastating to say the least.
joe1281949 4 years ago
That is some nasty power for 9mm, I think I should get some.
Liist 4 years ago
"With great power comes great responsibility" as they say.
joe1281949 4 years ago
$38 for any pistol rounds, and $44 to ? for rifle rounds is latest I come up with. Hope that helps out.
joe1281949 4 years ago
I am going up to 29 Palms for a visit, and will check prices at my Brothers gunshop. If I can get the current price list, I will make it available. As far as its effectiveness, all I can say is that "real world" examples have sold me on its use for home defense. I am personally confident that it has the stopping power needed in both 9mm and 45cal that would put an assailant down and keep them there.
joe1281949 4 years ago
So how much is this stuff? I have been reading around and have found that yes, it seems impressive, but it lacks necessary penetration. I have seen examples online with gel and water. Any more insight?
gunut4FMJ 4 years ago
There are many who have an interest in saying this ammo is no good. I don't stand to make a penny on it, but still feel it does its job very well.
joe1281949 4 years ago
This video showed real world testing, and it is difficult to argue with the displayed results I would think. I was impressed when I edited the video, and am still impressed and use the ammo for home defense.
joe1281949 4 years ago
I surprised that the fmj did go through.
what kind of door was that?
1lostinspace 4 years ago
This was a standard truck door. Don't have much more info about it though.
joe1281949 4 years ago
what grain is the RBCD you are using?
is it the Law enforsment version?
1lostinspace 4 years ago
The 9mm was 60gr., and the 45ACP was 90gr. This was the standard civilian issue available over the counter. More ballistic info can be had from the RBCD website. Thanks for your comment.
joe1281949 4 years ago
yeah I got some of that stuff if you really want to see how good it works get some fresh bloody pork and an umbrella. I like the 9mm better. Have you tried it on the door?
1lostinspace 4 years ago
I did not try it on the door myself, but did see Steve (owner of Donnell's) shoot into a number of different things, including a shoulder of port. Messy, very messy. Did not have camera set up for that one. This stuff may not be for everyone, but it IS great for home defense for sure....
joe1281949 4 years ago