Recovery | Alcoholics Anonymous - Skeptics Big Book Study 1

[0ViewTube0]

How about the parts that touches upon how it's better not to tell your spouse of your indiscretions? Mind you, it's not don't have indiscretions, rather, have them but don't tell your spouse. Which is exactly the kind of behavior sober Bill Wilson continued throughout his marriage to Lois Wilson.

After Bill Wilson died, per his last will and testament, his widow Lois Wilson was forced to share in his estate with his longtime mistress, Helen.

Lois Wilson lived on many years after...

[Darwyn7]

let me know how unbiased anger at the world works out for everyone in this thread. I'll stick to the path that has kept me sober.

[isegoria1]

@Darwyn7 Now I am angry because I disagree with the wild claims coming from your cult. Now you are playing victim? AA is full of victims that refuse to take responsibility for their past actions, instead they blame it all on a made up disease. AA is and always has been about religious conversion. Good luck with your made up disease.

[Darwyn7]

@isegoria1 are you an alcoholic?

[isegoria1]

@Darwyn7 I would say no. Still claiming to be infers I still have a problem with it. Some people never finish anything and there is a special group for them and it is called AA. I have long ago out grown the irresponsible deliberate actions of excessive drinking. Millions do it everyday.

[Darwyn7]

@isegoria1 cool, maybe I'm wrong, but it's helped me a lot. I do think the 12 steps can help anyone get to the core issues that cause them to drink or use anything to an excessive level that is threatening their health. Even overeating. It's just about understanding that you are were you are because you have focused so much on yourself, and the cure is focusing on other people. I can do that in AA and out of AA. It's just a nice group therapy settings to go to.

[AzumiRM]

@toshisba you make it sound like being an alcoholic is something to show off about. By the way , an alcoholic is somebody who is still drinking and can not stop. Not somebody who has stopped for several months / years ... they are no longer alcoholic unless they go to AA and have it drummed into their head that they are.

[BillyKess]

@toshisba - you haven't found a "solution" until you can stay sober WITHOUT the need for constant on-going therapy. I am happy that you are sober "just for today". I hope you can stay that way. I prefer to go with a program that believes we can stop for good. I prefer a program that will empower me and give me confidence. Not one that will put me down and tell me I am powerless. But to each his/her own.

[Dontworrybehappyism]

@BillyKess Billy, you have a good point of sorts. I am powerless over alcohol, but that's it. AA's programme is designed to put power back into your life; and it makes me wince when I hear fellow AAers saying they're powerless over people, places, and things, because that's just not true. I also did not say RR tries to show AA in a bad light, I said the originator of this Youtube upload is doing that.

[stephens269]

well good on you bro, at least you did read a bit.

[linskiful]

love your work dude....your right in everything you say about a.a ....keep it up!

[isegoria1]

@toshisba You can have your doubts all you like. I do like how you now add your special qualifiers. Every debate tactic you have used thus far is quite typical of the cult that is AA. I really wish you people would come up with something of your own and plug your brains in.

Blaming your willful actions on a disease while asking for help from an imaginary being is not taking responsibility, it is more like a desperate action to duck it at all costs. Maybe one day you will grow up.

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 I agree I still have plenty of growing up to do, but I am 'growing' as a human being. And corny as this may sound to you, I have AA to thank for a second chance at living life and for showing me how to recover from my alcoholism. I only hope your youtube stuff doesn't deny someone else the same chance that I was so freely given. And thank you for the opportunity to help carry the message; you have allowed me my freedom of speech (I believe you can delete posts?). Kind regards!

[hard124get]

People who are not alcoholics have no problem with AA. I hope you do not become one of the millions of premature deaths each year, but the odds are against you.

[isegoria1]

@hard124get It just kills you that myself and millions of others have found a SUCCESSFUL alternative to joining nonsensical death cult.

[hard124get]

@isegoria1

Wow, please let me know the successful alternative that millions of you have found.

[isegoria1]

@hard124get Just as simple as knock it off, do your really need special golden stars for not pissing your pants?

[hard124get]

@isegoria1

"just as simple as knock it off" what does this mean? What is the successful alternative that millions have found?

[isegoria1]

@hard124get You actually need "Knock it off" explained to you?

[hard124get]

@isegoria1 I am from the UK. Over here that expression may mean to steal something.

But that is not what I need, what I need is for you to please tell me the successful alternative that you and millions of others have found.

[isegoria1]

@hard124get I see it was lost in the translation. What I mean is to simply grow up and stop. Millions of people do it without special groups or cults. Matter of fact it is the norm. AA or NA is not the norm regardless of what they say. They are the very tiny minority.

[hard124get]

@isegoria1 mmmmmmmmmm, so ur radical new alternative therapy is just stop. Do you not think alcoholics might have tried this before? And failed? That is why they go to AA.

Did you go to AA?

[isegoria1]

@hard124get Radical? Now you are funny. Not radical in fact the norm but I suppose you just don't get the idea that 12 step programs are the MINORITY and they simply DO NOT WORK. I went long enough to know that it is bullshit in every sense of the word. I went long enough to watch it kill.

[hard124get]

@isegoria1 But AA has been going for over 70 years, it has a couple of million members. They think it works. The medical profession think it works. Governments think it works.I t works for me. I am 14 years sober.

Maybe you are not an alcoholic, have you ever thought about that?

[isegoria1]

@hard124get But nothing - delude yourself any way you like with popular opinion rather than the plain and simple facts that even AA knows what they have DOES NOT WORK. It would appear like the rest of the lemmings you have been duped by great marketing. I have no more time for you or your blathering dishonest apologetics.

Religion has been going far longer and is still dead wrong - WTF is your point, if you even have one?

[hard124get]

@isegoria1 There's the clue: POPULAR opinion, whereas your opinion is very UNPOPULAR. Maybe you are not alcoholic and a shrink might be more able to help you. :-)

[isegoria1]

@hard124get You don't do math so well do you? Tell yourself whatever delusion you need, those of us who are free of the cult that is 12 step would rather die than go back to the cult. Maybe you should be talking with people with closer to 30 years clean, they don't buy that 12 step disease bullshit either. I do like you stupid assumption, I am no longer an alcoholic anymore than I am a line cook out of high school. They are both things I grew out of. Maybe you should just grow up and grow a set.

[hard124get]

@isegoria1 Unfortunately you will probably get your wish and die, if you are an alcoholic. But maybe you have really cured yourself. Does this mean you can drink now?

[isegoria1]

@hard124get You are a hyperbole of stupidity and dishonesty.

* Argument from Authority

*Argument from Antiquity

* Argument from Popularity

* Argument from Ignorance

* Adhominem

* Strawman

= BLOCKED

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 If its the norm - as you say - for alcoholics to be able to just stop drinking, and stay stopped, why didn't you just stop instead of going to AA first?

My own experience showed me that I also could stop drinking - I found it tough - but it was the staying stopped that I couldn't do.

[isegoria1]

@toshisba Why did I go?, because I was fed the same bullshit marketing everyone else is fed.

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 What 'bullshit marketing' were you fed? I'm an ex soldier; I know what bullshit tastes like; believe me. I also wonder why you put so much effort into portraying an organisation that is designed to help alcoholics get sober in a negative light, when your time and talents could be better spent doing something more useful? AA is a great organisation, and I'm alive, sober, and happy because of it. I hope your way of dealing with your alcoholism brings you some happiness. Regards.

[isegoria1]

@toshisba If you are too blind to see all 12 step marketing is bullshit then you belong there. Exsoldier? Do you want a special gold sticker? Argument from authority FAIL. Maybe you like eating bullshit? To each their own. That might explain your defense of a nonsensical treatment program.

Appeal to emotion = Also FAIL

Do you have anything aside from fail to offer us? I mean if you like to fail so much then 12 step is a perfect fit for you.

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 I tried 'just stopping' and couldn't. I tried tapering off, and tapered back on. I tried MM; no use; after my 30 day of abstinence I went on a massive bender and ended up in hospital. I tried my doctor; no use at all. I tried therapy; no use either. I tried other stuff too; like getting married and having children, hoping that would make me take some responsibility, but I still drank.  The only thing that worked for me was AA.

What's you're alternative?

[isegoria1]

@toshisba Try taking responsibility for what you do. I see you have worked out a way out of doing just that. You like AA because it supplies a plethora of excuses that you desperately need rather than solutions.

Funny - never ever heard one solution in meetings, just bullshit whining and empty program praise.

[BillyKess]

@toshisba - explain the "negative light" part. How does RR get people sober in a "negative light"? If they are STAYING SOBER, isn't that the bottom line? Happiness and success will follow... With all due respect, I think brainwashing people into thinking they are "powerless" is a negative thing. I think making people believe that the only way they can stay sober is to go to meetings forever and ever is a negative thing.

[Dontworrybehappyism]

@BillyKess I also have no problems with whatever method people use to get sober; I've tried enough of them. No-one says you have to go to meetings forever either; I've a friend who sobered up in AA and hasn't been to a meeting in months; and then he only went to eat some of my 'birthday' cake and have a laugh with me. Personally, I like helping other drunks; I'm currently working with a heroin addict/alcoholic and the pleasure I'm getting seeing this guy grow as a human being is amazing.

[toshisba]

I think the BB is outdated in it's style, but I'm typing this stone cold sober and I've been sober for over a year now; so it still works.

I am an extremely happy customer of AA; and I'm an atheist! AA is welcoming to all with a desire to stop drinking.

[isegoria1]

@toshisba Personal testimony means nothing

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 Hey, I'm sober and happy, and have just celebrated one year of sobriety thanks to Alcoholics Anonymous, its programme, and the Fellowship. I'm still an atheist, I still think the Big Book's style is outdated; but it works.

And you're also entitled to whatever opinion you like, and if you're sober I'm pleased for you pal. There's more than one route up the mountain of sobriety, and AA was the only route that worked for me; and believe me I tried many many different ways.

Regards

[isegoria1]

@toshisba Then I suppose you are a dishonest atheist, this is of no surprise. Show us all your cognitive dissonance and explain away the god centered portion of the program. Tell us what is left over when you are done. Why call me pal when that is not how you really feel. I am so sick of back handed compliments from your lot.

I seriously doubt you buy their spiritual bullshit, rather yours is some convoluted and contorted rambling you tell yourself to make yourself feel better.

[toshisba]

@isegoria1 You're obviously an intelligent person, better educated than I, and if we're going to have a war of words I will lose, but AA was the only method that has worked for me, and believe me AA was, unfortunately, my absolute final resort. I can share my experience with you on how I work the programme as an atheist (there's lots of us in the UK), and being spiritual, in the words of the Roman philosopher, Senecca, is mostly about being 'good'. Would you like my e-mail address?

[bevhatle]

there are no athiests in foxholes

[isegoria1]

Look up the group atheists in foxholes

Meanwhile stop trying to intentionally be retarded

[TheLiffyboy]

Love the video. Love the content. Ripped up my copy of the Big Book of Bull Shit some time ago.

[SeanThompson80]

Isegoria1. You put a lot of your energy into something that's not helping people. You talk about attraction...why are you making a video dude?

[isegoria1]

Do you people have anything outside of stupid assumptions? I get mail daily from people thanking me for having the guts to speak out against the cult that is AA.

Please feel free to inform us all in a demonstrable way that you KNOW that I am not helping anyone. Please big mouth tell us.

[tuckers21]

You are in a pitiful state of mind and I pity you . militant atheism - "Atheism which is actively hostile to religion or any movement toward God ", .

You pick one :

1. Continue to hate

2. Start to change

[isegoria1]

What it truly pitiful as you put it is your need to stop here and spread more of your cult related hate and stupid assumptions. You people are so predictable it is not even funny. I like how you claim that any one who questions your cult is angry. Proof in itself that your cult is anti thought. You comment is so very typical.

Your redefinition of atheism goes on to further exemplify your anti thought to the point of stupidity. It is clear you know nothing of what you are commenting. Nice hate.

[isegoria1]

BTW - just how many sock accounts do you have on this site to spread indoctrination hate?

[tuckers21]

Wow , this is your response to failing in AA and an inability to get along with people ?

You are a great example of what's called self will run riot , see pg. 60

[isegoria1]

Thanks for your anti thought assumptions. All of them dead wrong.

Why don't you pick one

1. it is a disease

2. it is a matter of will

They also say keep it simple stupid and you are a fine example of stupid.

[3lionsman]

He has a problem. Wanker!

[isegoria1]

And that problem is faceless anonymous assholes who feel the need to spread hate.

You have wasted your time getting clean - your are still an asshole.

[3lionsman]

Why don,t you just keep your ideas to yourself. Pardon me but AA has worked for a lot of people in this world to live happy lives of sobriety. If it didn,t work for you, so be it, but let other people be the judge for themselves.

God Bless.

[isegoria1]

Why don't you keep your "Attraction rather than promotion" cult to yourself?

god B less

[justanotherface123]

Freedom of speech for you but not anyone else?

And then use you man made god to hide your man made hate?

You are a sorry lot.

[isegoria1]

Censorship is a very typical tool they use. It is not the exception but rather then norm.

If they had the truth there would be no need for their outbursts of hate and childish behavior.

[Deadperson213]

You could've just torn out all the pages at once instead of making yourself look like an idiot.....

[IrishAddict777]

hi there thomas

[isegoria1]

Again notice the accountability of these AA culters - This moron opened an account just to talk shit and then closed it less than and hour later.

Like I have said before, these people have absolutely nothing I want. They also have nothing no sane person should ever want.

[tobytwirrll]

Wilson actually bragged about the criminal act of colluding with the drunken Robert Smith in letting him operate on someone whilst under the influence. He reminisces about this in a film clip shown on youtube. Disgusting!

[Ciada91]

The 80's and 90's were a time to be hooked on a program of action. Kasl's book remains one of my favorites. I've enjoyed WFS meetings, but in this decade the move is toward finding what works for the individual, some need structure, a definitive plan, others do not.

The BB can never be understood because it is non-sensical, contradictory, and without merit. (See AMA report on the BB 1939).

[lambolucion]

For nileblamin..check out Dr. Lee Jampolskys book "Healing the Addictive Personality." 11 wk. outline..based on recognizing one's essential value and uncovering one's truth based personality (and the thought system underlying an addiction is the addictive personality). Excellent book-highly recommend..Kasl's steps are good..not many groups are meeting in U.S. but her website lists them. GOod luck and take care.

[Nileblamin]

Well I was quite interested in the "unhooked" link you have up since I know "blamedenial" is dead, "orange" and "more" I have read, amount to mere criticism, nothing helpful. So I went to it and found info about a 16 step model by Charlotte Kasl. I think she makes an excellent point that it may not be helpful to just put AA's steps in front of codependents, etc. But those steps seem heavily "God" centered. Is that what you are practicing Isegoria?

[isegoria1]

See my 12 steps for a secular recovery. I called them 12 steps because people are wicked hung up on the whole 12 step thing.

[spacestate]

AA is a quack religion which has been shown by EVERY objective study against other methods or no treatment at all to be the LEAST EFFECTIVE.

[isegoria1]

Absolutely

[Yoganao]

More AA hatred, anger, resentment, character defect -- sound off with all your canned 12 step cult-speak catchphrases. then cynically wish me all the best.Stay away from the cult of AA.

[andrewniles1]

I took that book outside and set it ablaze. All halloween orange and chimney red. hahahah

[isegoria1]

I may end up burning mine as reading through it again in this manner is sure to make me end up retarded.

[opendtuning]

i admire your brashness good luck in your quest

[opendtuning]

try that same thing with the Q'uoran and tell me how your life patterns out?

[isegoria1]

Like the Big Book, The Holy Bible and other books like it, the Qur'an is an ignorant mans answer all and an entire waste of time. All are equally useless.

[punkrockjay13]

you're a fucking idiot.

[isegoria1]

And you are obviously not smart enough to know how to conduct a proper debate. Thanks for being intellectually vapid enough to leave every point I made stand.

[JesusSucks1234]

Dumbass

[monkeymen72]

Thank you for doing that for me! Judge has ordered me to 3 meetings aweek for the next 7 years. I,m 3 yrs. into it. I,ve taken responsibility for my own recovey.I,ve tailor made my own plan which is far different and healthier than BILLS and BOBS way.I,m always happy and I,m not a victum.Steppers attack me for saying the way I see it.Newcomers come to me for advice as they see in me what they desire,inner peace and joy.I live in the NOW.

[sandraplumberd]

The big book is complete and utter trash

[tarrat6161]

Wow, I cant help wondering why you would go thru so much effort to destroy something so wonderful as the big book.

[isegoria1]

I think you meant as circular as the Big Book.

[TheNewUpsetters]

ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS: Ian with you Isegori1 but you forgot the part that if you are a female and new in those mettings they all want to fuck you( or should I say get in your pants) Thanks to me and only me!I dont need to drink today!!it may work some people but it can be a creepy experience ******

[sagasky]

LOL, izzy the crazy person :D

[RubyBlue12]

You know, you are waY TO smart to care that much about THE BOOK -- Put that brain to a better use now and FORGET THE BOOK , IT WAS ALWAYS SHIT AND ALWAYS WILL BE

[isegoria1]

I have considered taking a different approach to this whole thing. I thought yesterday to how sick of this I would be by page 100. I know I want to at least get through the steps part of the book and basically go -"You get the idea"

This is for whatever reason a "shock and awe" that I am getting positive feedback on so far with the exception of bastardrob and I understand his reasoning behind his comments about cynic or skeptic.

I think a lot of people have wanted to do just what I did here.

[bastardrob]

personally I see scepticism as healthy cynicsm as very destructive some of your vids are kinda balanced but my main criticism of your rational recovery is that as humans we are not wholly rational and it only addresses are conscious willful selves my experience is that something deeper is needed to recover a sense of spiritual well being etc.....

[isegoria1]

I do agree that as humans we are not typically wholly rational. Do take a look at the comment I just made to RubyBlue12 below.

I do think I will be taking a different approach to this.

[bastardrob]

SCEPTIC OR CYNIC ?

[isegoria1]

Right now I guess it is mix. My response is from many months of being abused. I guess the skeptic is the reading - the cynic is the ripping.

[Chibling]

I find AA to be a primarily religiously motivated organization. The fact they dont release their statistics to the public should be troubling.

[biggydman]

Man, this is hilarious!! This is one of your most brilliant videos on AA! Your giving a visual that people are going to remember!!

[isegoria1]

Yea, I was tired of doing scripted stuff so I figured this material writes itself and it was more fun to run off the chain so to speak.

[loadbrecht]

I agree I have a nephew that went into aa and he was a drone!!!! brain washed!!!!he was not the same guy I always knew!!!

thank god he slipped after 3 years and now is sober on his own!

we were lucky to get him back from the cult!

[isegoria1]

I am glad for your family that he was able to recover and has stayed clean.

[geroldkid]

I think your shredder has a new favorite dinner. Next time, add some pepper...Or some soy sauce!

[isegoria1]

"some pepper...Or some soy sauce! "

Good ideas - I just might do a thing like that.