Where is the discussion today, in the Fall of 2011, of the fact that a leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, "Mitt" Romney, proudly and publicly professes to believe in the absurdity and insanity that is Mormonism? First Sarah Palin and her crazy religious beliefs, and now Mr. Romney. What has the Republican party come to?!?
@pleasuremanning yeah, mormons aren't Christian, to be Christian means to be "Christ Like" and torturing gay mormons at BYU is something Jesus would never do.
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to be a Mormon, and a much bigger idiot to vote for this fool-Mormons are homophobic, racist, and illogical-how does God care whether you drink coffee or not? Oh yeah, and then there was the molestation case with Warren Jeffs....
The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is probably the most american religion! It is dumb that people are looking at his religion and not if he would make a good president! Also, the September Dawn movie has not historical facts supporting that Brigham Young was in ANY WAY a part or affiliated with that massacre!
@Mr150Rob Yeah, and I'm also familiar that in Utah(and elsewhere) the line between church and state is blurred by senators, congressmen, etc. that are Mormon activists and have made no excuses for supporting homophobic public policies like prop 8 because of what their religion tells them. If you're going to practice this religion, you should keep it to yourself.
Well he should be embarrassed! Mormonism is a joke, and demonstrably so. How can anyone have a presidential candidate being a mormon. vcome on America, speak up. Religions are bad enough and full of nonsense, but mormonism is even worse.
@TheStorminMormon92 - don't be ridiculous... mormonism is verminous, anti christian in doctrine while claiming to be christian... I find it funny that most mormons are shockingly poorly educated in their own history, the characters within it, mormon doctrine, BIBLICAL doctrine and that they accept that the thinking has been done for them....
@majinish - Your own Prophet Gordon B Hinkley told you clearly, you do not believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ... you (the LDS) believe in a God that is an exalted man, who was in progression and who came from a line of men who in their own turn, became Gods of their own Universes... Does this Sound Biblical? If it does, then you're not reading the Biblical Canon.
@54v115 Wrong. In fact its quite the opposite of what you said. We do not believe in your "traditional" version. We believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ. We do NOT believe in the version created by creeds that profess the "trinity", say you have to be Catholic to be saved, and that Jesus went to Hell. That's what Gordon B Hinkley was getting at.
@majinish When you LDS believe that Jesus Christ comes from an eternal line of men in progression as your D+C.. then you are not Christian as you promote a false doctrine. You guys believe in Polytheism and that is not christian. You push Jesus Christ into a footnote and promote Joe Smith Jnr above Him. Works defined by Smith above Gods grace. Your church, a socially networked business and you sadly, cannot see it for what it is. Do your homework.. seek out your Journals of Discourse from Vol1.
@54v115 Yes, we're to progress. Jesus Christ progressed. As the Bible says, Jesus grew in wisdom while in his youth. That's a form of progression. We're Christians whether you agree or not.
"You guys believe in Polytheism" False. We're monotheists. You're a trinitarian. And no, trinitarianism and monotheism aren't the same.
@54v115 "You push Jesus Christ into a footnote and promote Joe Smith Jnr above Him" False. We do not put Joseph Smith above Christ. Jesus Christ is above all.
"Works defined by Smith above Gods grace" The Bible teaches the importance of works. We're given grace for obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5). Its not my church, its Jesus Christ's church. The only one here who doesn't see the truth is you. You've made that point obvious.
@majinish - What your leaders say and preach DOES change that! What Lorenzo Snow stated “As Man Now Is, God Once Was; As God Now Is, Man May Be”... Changes that! WAKE UP!
but J. Smith said Jesus would come back 50 years after the Navoo temple was built, and that there were people that lived on the moon, that were 10 feet tall and dressed like quackers. The Bible says if some one says, that if someone prophysies in the Lord name and it dont come to pass he is a false prophet.
Google: "Mormon Apologetics & Evangelical Neglect: Losing the Battle & Not Knowing it." It was not written by a Latter-Day Saint Christian. Rather, an anti-LDS Evangelical scholar pieces together both sides of the argument & admits that the anti-LDS criticism is lacking & has been refuted. He also notes how LDS Apologists' refutations have been met with silence by the critics.
I think the best thing is to let him be. He believes what he believes and we cant force him to believe what we believe and neither shall his efforts succeed because I heed the Holy Spirit and not ranting men. Im a Christian and Sir I have no bitternis towards you. Have a peacefull day.
Dude, if you truelly are Christian then surely you will act like one. Mormons do not worship satan but the God the Father as Jesus instructed men to do. We do not worship any prophet because they are men but we do follow theor counsels as taught in the scriptures.
@llewellleo ONE OF MY CALLINGS AS A CHRISTIAN IS TO TELL THE TRUTH.........ONE TRUTH IS THAT MORMONS ARE SATANIST...........NO SUCH THING AS A CHRISTIAN MORMON........JUST LOOK AT YOUR SATANIC BLACK MAGIC MASONIC LUCIFERIAN MORMON UNDERWEAR......EVERYDAY YOU WORSHIP SATAN BY WEARIN THAT FREEMASON SATANISM.............WAKE UP
To call mormonism a cult is totally ridiculous if one considers the meaning of the word and many of the critical religions of the Church can well fall into that categorie.Mormons interact with others, play sport with others, watch movies and are pretty much normal human being except for a strict moral code which is not out of line with scriptural teachings. All religions have ceremonies that may be considered cultish. Mormons are not fanatics as most reasonably minded people will tell you.
Brigham did what was needed to protect his people who had already been through hell as they were driven from their homes in the east by violent murdering mobs. The villains who led the MMM were not intructed by the Senior leaders of the church unlike similar mobs to the east who were even supported by the law and show me one prosecuted there for the Murder of Mormons. People are showing a clear hypocrisy in this matter.
Did you base your opinion on the movie or on facts. There is no evidenve that Brigham ordered the MMM, his response was shock and a belief it could actually destroy the Church. The fear xas that a violent mob would enter Utah and repreat the MMM but on a larger scale.
@llewellleo actually he ordered it and tried to cover it up. I am a Mormon by the way so save your crap. It doesn't bother me but makes me proud that we once had a prophet that didn't f around. Wish we had one like that now.
Maxbie123 and makingaccount for you..... ROFLMAO!!! 2 cults battling it out ! You are both right in saying the the other side is deluded. Priceless exchange, thanks for the laughs. =0)
yeah I agree! Mormonism has to be one of the nicest cults out there. They're good people. They don't kill you anymore for not believing and they stopped the death tokens practiced in the temple after the "1989 Kirtland Massacre". And even as physically improbable as it is to get 531 pages worth of fine typed text from only 4x6x8 inches worth of engraved, gold plates, it's all in good faith. They’re not self-righteous, arrogant and judgmental; they just have to cope with having the only truth!
Mormons are statistically more religion literate than any other Christian religion. Almost all Mormons have read the entire bible (something that only 10% of Catholics can claim to have done), And Utah has the lowest teen pregnancy rate by far. Whether or not you believe in the Book of Mormon, they should be respected.
Its amazing how deceptive satan is. He even has real smart guys like Romney believing mormonism although lds teachings arent Biblical. Lds just dont know it. Most of his votes would come from mormons only. Not enough mormons to put him in office. Sorry Mitt. Maybe next time in the "spirit world" or the "highest degree of the celestial kingdom". Then again, you better "endure to the end" or you may end up in the "terrestrial" or "telestial' kingdom.
At 2:26, of the video, Romney stated (back in 2007, of course) that he expected people to ask him about his religion. But, many of us had noted that, whenever he WAS asked a direct question, about his religion, he side-stepped the issue: every single time!
And, then there were the many times that he "flip-flopped and called it an epiphany" (quote mine).
There is this phrase, circulating around SLC, that mormon dignitaries know full-well how to LIE FOR THE LORD (viz, disingenuous perfidy).
@joevane And this other mormon idiot from utah joevane talking about having sex with relatives proves me and SO many people out there right, NO WONDER that UTAH is the butt hole of jokes throughout the country
But, after Obama gets done turning this country into another Soviet Union, Romney is gonna start looking better and better. And by then, no one is going to care what religion he is. As long as it isn't Islam.
@lindalds Im a republican but I agree with the signs that were posted a few years ago, a mormon for president would be as much of a disaster as if osama bin laden were running this country himself.. the mormons want a presidents because the Catholics had so many of them, you mormon assholes have this sick fixation with them
@makingaccountforyou Having a Mormon as president would be the best thing that ever happened to this country. We'd go back to the America that was always supposed to be.
@lindalds Hey guess what asshole,you sound like another mormon who has Catholic envy, just b/c there were a lot of Catholic Presidents NOW you assholes wanna look Catholic and say hey we will have a mormon president, nice try but you idiots will NEVER EVER make it and NEVER fit into the Catholic world get a clue will you. Secondly, IDIOT the mormons who live in utah are as slow as they come from all the inbreeding
@lindalds Another delusional mormon who has Catholic envy tries to fit in by lying and saying that they grew up with the Catholics, hey you shouldnt worry if you dont have a problem with the Catholics but if the Catholics have a problem with you mormons because the Catholics are apart of God so yeah the mormons arent
@makingaccountforyou Me & Billzibub are with you. Lets burn them mormons & not stop there. We can burn the Budist, Muslims, & them nasty 7th day adventists too. It will be a modern day christian crusade. Oh we should invite George W. How could we leave him out.
@makingaccountforyou I almost went to the Catholic church, to join. I like it because it's not just a Sunday thing, it's a way of life. But, I found the LDS church, which is the most Biblical church, IMHO. So, envy, no. I could be Catholic if that's what I wanted.
However, if Catholics have a problem with me, it's THEIR problem, and YOUR problem, not mine.
@lindalds Good luck with that plenty of mormons TRIED to slime your way into the Catholic church and got rejected because we reject those of satan and well mormons are of satan
@makingaccountforyou slime our way, what? If we wanted to be Catholic, we would be Catholic. We would study the catechism and all that. We don't even pretend to be Catholic.
And personally, I have nothing but respect for teh Catholic faith.
@lindalds Wrong you mormon piece of shit.. the Catholic Church rejects mormonism so no, if you pigs wanted to be Catholic it wouldnt happen, dont be an asshole, sucks that you mormons have Catholic envy
@scottyray12 Another mormon asshole, who cannot resist bringing up child rape because of the fact that the amount of mormons who get prosecuted and arrested by people like one of my uncles whos a DA in utah outnumbers what any Catholic Priest did, you pigs love to bring up that topic because you think that by hiding it then its cool and ok, 1 handful of Catholic Priest do the 5 handful of mormons who rape kids
@scottyray12 Any of you mormons go near my kids I can promise you that I will be out of jail faster then that mormon will be out of the hosptial.. you sick child raping son of a cunt
@makingaccountforyou Wow you are about as ignorant as they come. Do you really believe that all your foul words are scaringme some how? Also name one arrest in the last 20 years by a member of the church not re-organized or any of the of the other branches but form the actaul mormon church. I can list well over 200 hundred Priest in the last 20 years and that is just the ones who have been caught. So have a nice day and i know that those few perverts do not reprsent the whole church.
@scottyray12 Any mormon like yourself who condones child rape knowing that the amount of mormons who get arrested for molesting kids outnumbers the Catholic Priest and if any of you mormons EVER went near my children I PROMISE you mormons that I will be out of jail faster then you mormons will be out of the hospital... oh and hate to tell yet another mormon this we all know that you people have this sick fixation with competing with the TRUE CHURCH the Catholics,
@makingaccountforyou The fact that you say that all Mormons are child molesters proves your ignorance, your willingness to generalize an entire religion. You are making up facts and statistics that do not exist and applying them. There are good people (and bad people) of every religion, skin color, and nationality, but from what am seeing you are too stupid to make those distinctions.
@makingaccountforyou The question is how many of them actually know a Mormon? How many of them know the difference between a Mormon and a fundamentalist Mormon?
@maxbie123 Oh so that excuse that mormons make can also apply to Catholic Priest we can easily say oh well those Priest who did that sick act werent really Catholic (rolls eyes)
@makingaccountforyou Well, considering LDS and FLDS are different religions, I would say that your comparison is incorrect. However, no actual catholic would do such things, and so you could argue that those priests were not actually catholic. The fact that some catholic priests did such horrible things does not mean all catholic priests would, or say really anything about Catholics in general. It is clear you are uneducated and hateful and need a people to vent against.
@maxbie123 Get a clue, THE MORMONS the actual LDS are getting prosecuted and arrested for raping kids everyday, at least the Priest owned up to it, the MORMONS the LDS are trying to hide it by uhhh MAKING EXCUSES
@makingaccountforyou So now you are claiming that all Mormons (there are over 11,000,000 word wide) are rapists and that the only Catholics who commit rape were those few priests? Who owned up to it instead of trying to hide it? Your facts are made up and you are ignoring the truth. What excuses are you referencing? You say "the Mormons" instead of the correct usage "some Mormons". Are you even reading what I am saying? Because so far all you have screamed is hatred similar to KKK propaganda.
@maxbie123 I don't agree with the comments from the alias makingaccountforyou but I do find it hilarious you talk about propaganda representing a religion who is famous for producing rigid doctrine and propaganda making. The members of your church are told what to think how to behave and how to act. Also your church I involved in political anti-gay campaigning and donates millions of dollars to prevent equal rights for gays so who is spreading the propaganda here?
@MarkieWatch100 Honestly, 50-100 years ago almost all religions were as rigid as Mormons, the difference is that Mormons seem to have stayed "out of the world" longer, and what religion does not still tell its members "what to think how to behave and how to act"? Which brings me to my next point, the people that paid for the ads were part of a coalition of Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims. The Mormons were only 58% of the VICTORY MARGIN.
@maxbie123 Is that all you got is 11 thousand members is that IT??? Wow you mormons suck at competing with the Catholics beings that they have 1.5 BILLION members WORLDWIDE SO HA! AND I DID SAY 1 HANDFUL OF CATHOLIC PRIEST TO THE 5 HANDFUL OF SICK ASS MORMONS MOLESTING CHILDREN... you condoning them makes you a molestor yourself sick ass
@makingaccountforyou You are making things up (I do not condone any kind of child molester, but you are too stupid to actually read my comments). You are so incredibly moronic that you cannot read numbers, and so I will not be speaking to you anymore. You are obviously mentally retarded or >12 years old. You make up facts and stereotypes . Considering the proven fact that only 33% of Catholics attend church regularly, it would seem it is a default religion, like spiritual but not religious is.
@maxbie123 THey are ALLL facts you stupid jackass mormon asshole.. seriously you mormons only condone child rape because you sick asses enjoy doing it, but when you start getting a serious beating from the parents of the children, haha not sure if you mormons will enjoy that
@makingaccountforyou I pray that one day you will stop being ignorant and stupid. That you will learn facts instead of diluting yourself with lies. Read your own comments. then Read mine,then read the bible, which you claim to follow. I have attempted to act as the Christian I am and offer compromise and friendliness, and have been met with aggression and closed mindedness, followed by profanity and threats of violence. It is sad that a doctrine as righteous as the bible has you for a follower.
@maxbie123 Knowing that youre a product of satan, because the mormons are satans children YOU HAVE NO PLACE to pray to God, just by you even saying that makes a mormon look like they're mocking God.. burn in hell with prophet of satan joseph smith and leave me alone, you mormons make me sick with your blasphemy and mockery
@makingaccountforyou You are ignorant, and a hypocrite to the teachings of Christ. You are violent and it is sad that one who "follows" the bible should be so unchristian. You mock, and then claim others do. You stereo type, and then ignore facts and teachings and spread hatred and lies. You are much like the pharisees of Ancient Israel, who instead of listening to the goodness of Christ's teachings pointed to differences and condemned him for them. You openly ignore teachings that you "follow".
@maxbie123 You mormons KNOW that you mormons could care less about Christ, all you pigs do is use his name as a ploy that was taught by the mormons leader satan to try and lure Gods people away from him to join satan and his mormon children, THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT WILL CONVINCE ME, I CAN TELL THAT YOURE ANOTHER MORMON LIAR TRYING TO USE SELF PITY AND GUILT TO TRY AND TURN ME THE OTHER WAY BUT I CAN SEE YOUR PLOY, you are wasting your time with me
@makingaccountforyou You are seemingly beyond help, and have fallen into the most satanic hatred one can have. Whether or not my church is true or yours, it does not matter. I follow Christ's teachings, but your unreasonable and satanic hatred blocks you from seeing that, and causes you to ignore facts and truths and your own gospel to satisfy your craving for hate. I will leave you with a word of shared scripture John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
@maxbie123 I seriously KNOW that you need to shut the hell up because I just told you a few days ago that there is NOTHING and Im saying it again there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING that you as a mormon can say that will ever convince me, we have no doubt and with all of the evidence that you mormons are a product of satan, you talk of satan as if you invite me to join mormonism, youre seriously a piece of work
@makingaccountforyou Satan has done his work on you, and you have fallen to his level. At this point it seems you have closed your mind to your own churches' teachings as well as mine, in order to entertain your need for hate. You are right, there is not a single thing that I can say that can change your mind, even if it is scripture from the Bible we both follow.
@maxbie123 Shut the hell up you sick piece of mormon shit, dont push your leader satan on me.. I DONT BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY ASSHOLE WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU GET!!!!
@maxbie123 THANK YOU FOR THE BOM THAT SHOWS MORMON SATANISM......,,,AND DONT FORGET THOSE SATANIC BLACK MAGIC MASONIC MORMON UNDIES......MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.......
@lindalds YOU WROTE"HAVING A MORMON AS PRESIDENT WOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY"........HOW DO YOU FIGURE? MORMONS ARE SATANIST, SO IS OBAMA.......
@eitoobmiz Excuse me, but I've been "mormon" now for over 30 years and I have yet to worship Satan. Mormons are taught that the Constitution of hte United States is a divinely inspired document.
@lindalds Its much easier to claim satanism while using the caps lock than to live Christ's law of love for everyone regardless of faith, or learn about the real beliefs of others.
@maxbie123 HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA...........WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY I HAVE TO RESPECT LIARS...........THE HOLY PROPHET ELIJAH MOCKED THE FAKE PROPHETS OF BAAL........MORMON PROPHETS ARE FAKE SATANIC FREEMASONS PERVS.......
@eitoobmiz Matthew 5:43 ¶Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 6:27 ¶But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
@maxbie123 IT SAYS LOVE,BLESS,PRAY FOR, AND DO GOOD.............NOTHING ABOUT RESPECT...........MORMONS ARE TRUE SATANIST........THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT.........JESUS IS GOD AND TRUTH IS NEVER HATE............
@maxbie123 MORMONS AREN'T BELIEVERS IN GOD OR JESUS...........MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN........PROPER RESPECT TO MORMONS IS TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND TELL THEM TO REPENT BEFORE ITS TO LATE...........MORMONS IN THEIR CURRENT STATE ARE SATANIST........MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.........
@eitoobmiz To quote the articles of faith of the LDS church "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.". This soundly disproves your entire post. For someone who spends so much time on the internet to attack Mormons you know little about their religion. Also turn caps lock off, it denotes yelling and makes it harder to interact with you in a thoughtful way. Also when you "yell" at someone it makes them defensive and less receptive to your lies.
@lindalds MORMONS LIE...........LYING IS HATE......MORMONS ARE EARTHLY HATERS FOR SATAN.........MORMONS WORSHIP JOE SMITHS SATAN VERSION OF JESUS........JESUS IS GOD,ALWAYS HAS BEEN GOD,ALWAYS WILL BE GOD........
@eitoobmiz You are too ignorant to even respond to anymore. Did you know that all capital letters means shouting? You are practically foaming at the mouth. You call us foul names without one well thought out reason. we know what we are. God knows what we are. I am right where God wants me. If I were to follow you, I would bring the wrath of God down on me. Sorry, I odn't want that.
Continue your ranting, you only embarrass yourself. And God and Jesus.
@eitoobmiz screaming disgusting epithets does not make truth. Why don't you prove to us that you are right. Give us some proof that Thomas S. Monson and his counselors are "fake satanic freemasons pervs..."
@lindalds TRUTH IS NEVER DISGUSTING ........WHY ARE YOU DISGUSTED.........WHY DO YOU WORSHIP JOE SMITHS SATAN JESUS.....WHY DO YOU PRAISE THE WHOREMONGOR SATANIST FREEMASON SEX PERVERT FORNICATOR JOE SMITH.........JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS GOD...........JOE SMITH BOM JESUS DOSENT EVEN EXIST........ONLY IN THE FIGMENT OF A SATAN POSSESSED MORMON BRAIN.........THOMAS MONSON IS A SATANIC BLACK MAGIC FREEMASON SYMBOL WEARING MORMON UNDERWEARING TRUE SATAN PROPHET, FREEMASONRY IS SATANISM AND SO R MORMON
@makingaccountforyou Oh, and BTW, I'm not from Utah, and I was not brought up in the LDS church. only about 14% of the Mormons in the world are in Utah. So your "inbred Utah Mormon" stuff just shows how truly ignorant you are of Mormons.
@lindalds So yeah leave this country to be run by Catholics this way it will be run like a US country and not a 3rd world country, as they always say a mormon for president would be as much of a disaster as if osama bin laden were running this country himself, a mormon would NEVER get enough votes Romney knew that and thats why he stepped out, I rest my case
The state or should I say the 3rd world country of utah because thats the way they run utah is the butt hole of jokes throughout the country, with all of the years of mormon incest made their kids to come out slow and stupid as hell, no wonder further advanced schools had to be asked to come to utah to teach utah the latest in technology,they have a very slow mentality and are scared to live in a fast paced society
@MrTravelynn Hey asshole, I realize that I am talking to slow inbred mormons in this room who are from utah, if it werent for further advanced states and schools out there you mormon inbreds from utah wouldnt know how to have industries of your own, doesnt come out of utah dumb ass inbred, IT GETS SENT TO UTAH... omg you inbreds are so slow
@makingaccountforyou I work constuction and build shit all over the west hell the mormons pretty much built las vegas and Iam not a mormon or christian Idont believe in your easter bunny, santa or jebus but the way you spout your pure hatred in thier name just proves how truly christian you are why dont you go hold some crusades you ass clown
@MrTravelynn Everything the mormons from utah have done they were taught by other people, the mormons from utah dont have the mental capability to be able to create and build things on their own, too many years of them inbreeding and mixing the same genes and chromosomes made their spawn come out slow throughout the years, SERIOUSLY everyone knows that
According to the theological definition of the term, a cult is a group that denies essential biblical doctrine while claiming to be Christian or in harmony with true Christianity. While Mormons claim to be members of the one true Christian church, they deny historic and essential Christian doctrines; therefore, evangelical Christians do, indeed, consider it a cult of Christianity.
really? give me even ONE biblical piece of doctrine that Mormons do not believe to be true! i continue to be amazed at how definitively people slam something they know nothing about. the principles and fundamental teachings of the Mormon church follows the teachings of the bible more than any religion that exists today.
@209075 Yeah mormons are such good people that one of my uncles in utah whos a DA prosecutes and arrest mormons for child molesting, drug dealing, spousal abuse, yeah such good people, I mean really the Catholics are a lot better then the mormons, and the mormons hate that cus they have been in this sick competition wit the Catholics for years, 1.5 BILLION Catholics to the mormons 13 million satanic cult members yeah I dont think you can compete
chain, you have no idea what you are talking about! Utah has one of the highest gpa's in the country and the lowest crime rate dumb ass! the only confirmed brother knockin up his sister was your parents! I hope you never breed!
@209075 Are you on crack??? Uhh utah is known to be one of the slowest most dumb people in the country because of the amount of mormon incest throughout the years, you cant just mix the same chormosomes and genes and expect a kid to be with it in the head, you barbaric idiots from utah will learn to be grateful that further advanced schools were asked to come to utah and teach utah education, OMG you idiot haha, Harvard Med,Penn State is among theee highest in GPAs
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The state of or should I say the 3rd world country of utah (because the mormons run utah like one) is the butthole of jokes throughout the country, so many slow people in utah because of the mormons constant inbreeding, you can't have a kid with your blood related brother or sister or uncle and expect to have smart children, utah is very stupid, so stupid that further advanced schools were asked to come to utah to teach utah the latest in technology throughout the decades
Too many folks are worried about other's beliefs. As a matter of fact, you almost sound intimidated by what the Mormons stand for. My take is this, if you believe in your faith (religion), they why not pour your heart, mind, & soul in to it instead of degrading others beliefs. And if you are a christian, shouldn't you be displaying Christlike attributes / character by respecting others beliefs. God bless you and I'm quite sure he loves you as well.
@pushallthebuttons Hey pushallthebuttons, mormonism is a filthy piece of shit satanic cult that got started by joseph smith when he was chosen by satan to USE Jesus Christ name on the mormons SO CALLED church just to try and fool Gods children..hail joseph smith prophet of satan right
And how do we know a false prophet? by works. Says so there in Matthew Chapter 7. The thing we must remember is that Joseph Smith claimed the inspiration from god, that instituted the laws that people call blasphemy today. It just shows that god's standards, and the world's, are different. Therefore, try actually learning about the mormon church's beliefs (real beliefs) rather than what lying, slandering, "christians" say about it. thanks.
Mormons claim to follow christs teachings but they dont, if they did they would immediately recognize that J Smith is a false prophet, THey partake in Rituals, again warned not to partake in specifically, They are constanly changing their teachings which is contrary to gods standard, Its all based on emotianal reaction and lies, And control by force over their members
If anyone thinks Mormons are not extreme, then read their own church history. Joseph Smith married 33 wives, some as young as 14 yrs. He sent a mob and destroyed a printing press that was exposing this. Brigham Young believed in taking peoples lives for marrying blacks, adultery, leaving the church and theft. Mormons murdered 120 men, women and children at Mountain Meadows in 1857. Present day Mormon leaders rule their members by force and are arrogant with the power tithing money gives them.
There IS ONLY ONE JESUS; The JESUS of The BIBLE. The Jesus of the Jehovahs Witnesses was tortured on a STAKE, with ONE nail driven through both hands, over his head. The mormon Jesus is a POLYGAMIST, from Adam God having sex with Virgin Mary. NEITHER PREACH the CROSS. 1Corin1:18"For Preaching of The CROSS is to them that PERISH, FOOLISHNESS, but to US that are SAVED, it is the POWER of GOD.Eph2:8"For by GRACE are you SAVED through FAITH; & NOT of YOURSELVES. It's The GIFT of GOD...NOT BY WORKS
A mormon that was VERY well versed in lds HISTORY, ADMITTED to me, '...Yes, i KNOW what you're saying is TRUE.. I KNOW that joseph smith is a FALSE PROPHET.. BUT, I just can't BELIEVE that GOD could send ANYONE to HELL, that LEADS A CLEAN LIFE." The PROBLEM with that, is that "ALL have SINNED", and "By the WORKS of the LAW, shall NO flesh be JUSTIFIED..Gal2:16,Rom3:23. JESUS PAID for our SINS on the CROSS, because there was NO other WAY, for US to get to Heaven. We're SAVED by GRACE, NOT WORKS
Brutally murdered huh? Joseph Smith shot and killed 2 men before being killed himself. A little fact the Church likes to wash-over. Hyrum was murdered but again, what was the reason? The Church had destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor a clear violation of the Constitution for revealing the truth of Joseph Smith's polygamy. LDS History is extremely one-sided.
It's not one-sided. A similar revolver is on display at the official church history museum and discusses Joseph defending himself. Get your facts straight please before posting.
And if you failed to realize it, you're defending the murderers for their actions.
It's on display at the Museum but the tour guides at Carthage are very reluctant to mention it. Why not display it at Carthage since that's where it was used?
Brilliant logic! The Warsaw Ghetto uprising then, by your logic, proves that the Jews deserved to be killed, since they also tried to defend themselves against the Nazis. So 4 men, attacked by 150, are suddenly the aggressors? Wow. And, by the way, sadly, none of the murdering mobbers were killed but two were wounded. At least get your facts straight, before you condemn the victims of a lynch mob.
By your logic are the people who died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising lambs to the slaughter and martyrs? Joseph was murdered but not a lamb to the slaughter like Jesus either. The church conveniently omits the gunfight and other facts to portray him as a truly innocent martyr which he was not.
Finally, Joseph did kill two men as stated by John Taylor in the History of the Church: "I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."
Umm...were the Jews slaughtered like lambs, and martyrd for their religious beliefs. Of course. And no one said Joseph was sent to earth to die like Jesus, so your comparison is rather lame. I hope any human does all they can to defend their life and the life of their friends. The church omits nothing about that tragic day, including his attempt at defense of himself and the other innocent men. Use more than one reference. Taylor was repeating a rumor, which was later shown in error.
Nice spin. Self-defense (Carthage, Warsaw or otherwise) is not "lambs to the slaughter". A lamb doesn't attempt to kill those intent on killing it. Why do you think Jesus is called the Lamb of God? Because according to Isiah: "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." Mormons use the term "lamb to the slaughter" to make JS equally comparable to Jesus.
Actually, that comment is a quote from J.S. when he rode voluntarily to Carthage, prophesying his own death. We don't "use the term to make J.S. equally comparable to Jesus", and your equating of the two suggests a desire to mispresent the facts. Ask yourself this; was his surrender voluntary? Yes. Was he murdered in cold blood? Yes. Was he innocent of the charge of treason? Yes. The rest of your diatribe is just slant and religious bigotry.
I'm aware of the origin of the statement. His surrender initially was not voluntary he was going to flee west but was told he was a coward and decided he had to face the music. He was murdered yes but not in cold blood as you like to claim as he killed two people in the process of defending himself. In cold blood refers to someone who is defenselessly murdered.
Finally what makes you think he was innocent of the charge of treason? When has it ever been legal to destroy a printing press?
You keep citing "killing two people", which is not true--though frankly I'd have no problem with that. And 150 to 4 IS "defenseless". Look up the word "treason". That's a charge that has nothing to do with private property rights, and was simply trumped up to avoid posting of bail, which could be done for property damage, but not a federal offense. It was all a sham to get him into the mob's hands. Though I perceive you have no problem with the murders, just the little ladies pistol.
You say it's not true yet offer no evidence to refute this. Why would John Taylor lie? Joseph Smith committed treason by violating the First Amendment of the Constitution (Freedom of Speech) the same Constitution the D&C claims was written by the hands of inspired men. I'm not siding with the mob in any way. What I'm saying is their wrongful actions don't justify the church's actions in deceitfully ommitting inconvenient facts either as well as using JS's murder to justify killing a wagon party.
Dallin Oaks wrote the definitive book "The Carthage Conspiracy", which clarifies wounded versus dead. John Taylor didn't "lie", but said what he had heard from others..."I am informed..." FYI: Treason is defined as attempting to overthrow the government, replace it, or bring about it's destruction. We've never charged a citizen with treason for an alleged breach of one of the amendments. Bootleggers in the 20's weren't charged with treason for violating the 18th amendment during prohibition.
No defenseless is when you don't have any means available to defend yourself. I could use that same rationale to argue the 300 spartans were defenseless too against tens of thousands of Persians and were murdered in "cold blood".
300 warriors, trained as soldiers from their youth, armed to the teeth, holding a narrow pass, with all their weapons of war, shields, spears, swords...yeah. That's the same thing as a pocket deringer. You've changed my mind on that. If only J.S. had confined his defense to a rubber band, or a spit wad, to avoid being seen as the "aggressor". What was he thinking??
John Taylor used both the words wounded and dead so what's there to clarify? Furthermore, Oaks does mention a man who gun wound inflicted by JS caused him to die 6 months later. We can argue all day about wounded or dead but the point is this. Show the events as they actually happened, gun and all and let the viewers come to their own conclusion. The church won't do that as its more interested in faith promotion rather than truth.
Okay...if that floats your boat. But I feel it says something that you feel the need to fault a minor point, as if it invalidates the honor, courage, and dedication of men who gave their lives, agree with them or not. Nobility is not lessened because JS resisted an evil mob. BTW; passion plays often skip showing Peter's murderous attack defending Christ in Gethsemanie. Are you surprised they focus on the main event, not the footnote? Detractors would find fault either way due to prejudice.
I'm not suprised on the focus of the main event however the church has a long history of omitting, obscuring, sanitizing anything that paints it in a non faith promoting light. Here's just a few:
1. JS using a seer stone top hat to translate the BOM
2. JS's polygamous marriages to already married women and underage girls
3. BY and the Adam-God theory
4. Practicing polygamy after the Manifesto
5. Racist teachings from GA's
Sorry if the constant deceit has made me a bit angry...
All faiths have areas not fully revealed after time has passed and the players aren't there to explain. 1,2,4 are cases to be made either way, depends on the authority/theory you accept. 3 is easily explained, but no space here. 5 is not a problem as even men of God reflect their biases due to free agency. Peter was a total bigot but God still used him. (Read Gal 2). A few LDS GA's by today's standards, made errors on race relations as viewed today. Not fair to expect 2009 in older eras.
(cont'd)...but you miss the point. It wouldn't matter if they'd been wounded or died. They were a murdering lynch mob, breaking the law, committing murder!!!! Last I checked, it's okay to defend yourself and your friends under those conditions. You're actually blaming the victims for self defense, and misrepresenting history. Did you get excommunicated or something to have this much bile and hatred?
"The church omits nothing about that tragic day" No nothing at all, other than any mention of the gun at the Carthage jail tours and in church film. If you go through the tour there nothing about the gun is ever mentioned (unless of course someone brings it up). This is deliberately omitted to once again portray Joseph as a "lamb to the slaughter" like Jesus.
Finally, I love the way Mormons when they refute the message start shooting at the messenger with the "you must have sinned" card.
We also don't talk about what clothes they were wearing, or whether their shoes were tied or untied. 150 against 4, you see as no justification for defense? For you to focus on a reasonable attempt to defend your life and the life of your friends, AS AN INDICTMENT OF THE VICTIMS, is incredibly ignorant. And I wasn't accusing you of "sin", but trying to see why you're so full of hate and religious bigotry. You have an axe to grind, and often that comes from anger over something.
I meant to say can't refute the message in my last post. It's the classic fallacy argumentum ad hominem.
Bile and hatred? I'm not making any attacks against you personally but am challenging your church for the misleading way in which they represent the events of Carthage. I know, "its wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true" (Dallin H. Oaks) and as such I should stop questioning and fall back in line. Wasn't exed either but thanks for playing...
So you feel no bile or hatred towards the church? (I never implied against me.) You really see no glaring bias, when you focus on condemning the victims, and pardoning the mob? I don't hear any condemnation of the murderers, but only the murdered. You're mad and bitter about something, which is evident by your focusing on the least important issue of the Carthage experience, and ignoring the most important issues.
The mountain meadow masacre movie was a huge dud. Unlike the Catholic church, Mormons do not "boycott" or bitch about it, because they know it generates unwanted publicity.
the movie is about the mountin meadows massacare those guys that come to your door are not going to tell you about that.
jayhawk88z 3 months ago
Where is the discussion today, in the Fall of 2011, of the fact that a leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, "Mitt" Romney, proudly and publicly professes to believe in the absurdity and insanity that is Mormonism? First Sarah Palin and her crazy religious beliefs, and now Mr. Romney. What has the Republican party come to?!?
194jms 4 months ago
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion-"I think you and I are destined to this forever" hopefully you get the reference.............
pleasuremanning 5 months ago
@pleasuremanning yeah, mormons aren't Christian, to be Christian means to be "Christ Like" and torturing gay mormons at BYU is something Jesus would never do.
fryeguy87 5 months ago
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to be a Mormon, and a much bigger idiot to vote for this fool-Mormons are homophobic, racist, and illogical-how does God care whether you drink coffee or not? Oh yeah, and then there was the molestation case with Warren Jeffs....
pleasuremanning 6 months ago
The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints is probably the most american religion! It is dumb that people are looking at his religion and not if he would make a good president! Also, the September Dawn movie has not historical facts supporting that Brigham Young was in ANY WAY a part or affiliated with that massacre!
Mr150Rob 6 months ago
@Mr150Rob How is it the most american religion if it discriminates against people? Ever heard of civil rights?
pleasuremanning 6 months ago
@pleasuremanning If you are familiar with civil rights, ever heard of freedom of religion?
Mr150Rob 6 months ago
@Mr150Rob Yeah, and I'm also familiar that in Utah(and elsewhere) the line between church and state is blurred by senators, congressmen, etc. that are Mormon activists and have made no excuses for supporting homophobic public policies like prop 8 because of what their religion tells them. If you're going to practice this religion, you should keep it to yourself.
pleasuremanning 6 months ago
@pleasuremanning And if your going to bash my religion, you should keep it to yourself.
Mr150Rob 5 months ago
Well he should be embarrassed! Mormonism is a joke, and demonstrably so. How can anyone have a presidential candidate being a mormon. vcome on America, speak up. Religions are bad enough and full of nonsense, but mormonism is even worse.
sids500 7 months ago
@TheStorminMormon92 - don't be ridiculous... mormonism is verminous, anti christian in doctrine while claiming to be christian... I find it funny that most mormons are shockingly poorly educated in their own history, the characters within it, mormon doctrine, BIBLICAL doctrine and that they accept that the thinking has been done for them....
54v115 8 months ago
AntiChrist...AntiBible...AntiGod... mormonism should be removed from any authorised Christian affiliation, because they are not Christian.
54v115 8 months ago
@54v115 Pro-Christ. Pro-Bible. Pro-God. Yes, we Mormons are Christians. What you think doesn't change that.
majinish 6 months ago
@majinish - Your own Prophet Gordon B Hinkley told you clearly, you do not believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ... you (the LDS) believe in a God that is an exalted man, who was in progression and who came from a line of men who in their own turn, became Gods of their own Universes... Does this Sound Biblical? If it does, then you're not reading the Biblical Canon.
54v115 5 months ago
@54v115 Wrong. In fact its quite the opposite of what you said. We do not believe in your "traditional" version. We believe in the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ. We do NOT believe in the version created by creeds that profess the "trinity", say you have to be Catholic to be saved, and that Jesus went to Hell. That's what Gordon B Hinkley was getting at.
majinish 5 months ago
@majinish When you LDS believe that Jesus Christ comes from an eternal line of men in progression as your D+C.. then you are not Christian as you promote a false doctrine. You guys believe in Polytheism and that is not christian. You push Jesus Christ into a footnote and promote Joe Smith Jnr above Him. Works defined by Smith above Gods grace. Your church, a socially networked business and you sadly, cannot see it for what it is. Do your homework.. seek out your Journals of Discourse from Vol1.
54v115 5 months ago
@54v115 Yes, we're to progress. Jesus Christ progressed. As the Bible says, Jesus grew in wisdom while in his youth. That's a form of progression. We're Christians whether you agree or not.
"You guys believe in Polytheism" False. We're monotheists. You're a trinitarian. And no, trinitarianism and monotheism aren't the same.
majinish 5 months ago
@54v115 "You push Jesus Christ into a footnote and promote Joe Smith Jnr above Him" False. We do not put Joseph Smith above Christ. Jesus Christ is above all.
"Works defined by Smith above Gods grace" The Bible teaches the importance of works. We're given grace for obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5). Its not my church, its Jesus Christ's church. The only one here who doesn't see the truth is you. You've made that point obvious.
majinish 5 months ago
@majinish - What your leaders say and preach DOES change that! What Lorenzo Snow stated “As Man Now Is, God Once Was; As God Now Is, Man May Be”... Changes that! WAKE UP!
54v115 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
For an accurate depiction of the Prophet Joseph Smith's life, see:
Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration here on Youtube. It is uploaded under MormonMessages
Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, testifying of Jesus Christ and his Redemption.
Read the Book of Mormon, and learn of this truth. It testifies of the Son of God, the Redeemer of the World, our Savior Jesus Christ.
GreeneBellamy 8 months ago
but J. Smith said Jesus would come back 50 years after the Navoo temple was built, and that there were people that lived on the moon, that were 10 feet tall and dressed like quackers. The Bible says if some one says, that if someone prophysies in the Lord name and it dont come to pass he is a false prophet.
greeneyesangel69 9 months ago
@greeneyesangel69 J. Smith didn't said that at all. Don't make it up.
dunnooooo1234789 8 months ago
The difference between Catholicism and Mormonism is that Catholicism is based on truth not on a con-man's (J.Smith) rhetoric.
77NMK 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Google: "Mormon Apologetics & Evangelical Neglect: Losing the Battle & Not Knowing it." It was not written by a Latter-Day Saint Christian. Rather, an anti-LDS Evangelical scholar pieces together both sides of the argument & admits that the anti-LDS criticism is lacking & has been refuted. He also notes how LDS Apologists' refutations have been met with silence by the critics.
metallicarox80s 11 months ago
I think the best thing is to let him be. He believes what he believes and we cant force him to believe what we believe and neither shall his efforts succeed because I heed the Holy Spirit and not ranting men. Im a Christian and Sir I have no bitternis towards you. Have a peacefull day.
llewellleo 1 year ago
Dude, if you truelly are Christian then surely you will act like one. Mormons do not worship satan but the God the Father as Jesus instructed men to do. We do not worship any prophet because they are men but we do follow theor counsels as taught in the scriptures.
llewellleo 1 year ago
@llewellleo ONE OF MY CALLINGS AS A CHRISTIAN IS TO TELL THE TRUTH.........ONE TRUTH IS THAT MORMONS ARE SATANIST...........NO SUCH THING AS A CHRISTIAN MORMON........JUST LOOK AT YOUR SATANIC BLACK MAGIC MASONIC LUCIFERIAN MORMON UNDERWEAR......EVERYDAY YOU WORSHIP SATAN BY WEARIN THAT FREEMASON SATANISM.............WAKE UP
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz Wow you making yourself more defensive and less-human...
dunnooooo1234789 8 months ago
To call mormonism a cult is totally ridiculous if one considers the meaning of the word and many of the critical religions of the Church can well fall into that categorie.Mormons interact with others, play sport with others, watch movies and are pretty much normal human being except for a strict moral code which is not out of line with scriptural teachings. All religions have ceremonies that may be considered cultish. Mormons are not fanatics as most reasonably minded people will tell you.
llewellleo 1 year ago
Brigham did what was needed to protect his people who had already been through hell as they were driven from their homes in the east by violent murdering mobs. The villains who led the MMM were not intructed by the Senior leaders of the church unlike similar mobs to the east who were even supported by the law and show me one prosecuted there for the Murder of Mormons. People are showing a clear hypocrisy in this matter.
llewellleo 1 year ago
Comment removed
llewellleo 1 year ago
Did you base your opinion on the movie or on facts. There is no evidenve that Brigham ordered the MMM, his response was shock and a belief it could actually destroy the Church. The fear xas that a violent mob would enter Utah and repreat the MMM but on a larger scale.
llewellleo 1 year ago
Brigham young did not lead this, what a big load of BS
llewellleo 1 year ago
@llewellleo actually he ordered it and tried to cover it up. I am a Mormon by the way so save your crap. It doesn't bother me but makes me proud that we once had a prophet that didn't f around. Wish we had one like that now.
cwood4ever 1 year ago
Maxbie123 and makingaccount for you..... ROFLMAO!!! 2 cults battling it out ! You are both right in saying the the other side is deluded. Priceless exchange, thanks for the laughs. =0)
sparky7718 1 year ago
yeah I agree! Mormonism has to be one of the nicest cults out there. They're good people. They don't kill you anymore for not believing and they stopped the death tokens practiced in the temple after the "1989 Kirtland Massacre". And even as physically improbable as it is to get 531 pages worth of fine typed text from only 4x6x8 inches worth of engraved, gold plates, it's all in good faith. They’re not self-righteous, arrogant and judgmental; they just have to cope with having the only truth!
godnessdude 1 year ago
Mormons are statistically more religion literate than any other Christian religion. Almost all Mormons have read the entire bible (something that only 10% of Catholics can claim to have done), And Utah has the lowest teen pregnancy rate by far. Whether or not you believe in the Book of Mormon, they should be respected.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123
And guess what... atheists and other non-believers know far more about religion than ANY religion.
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
Its amazing how deceptive satan is. He even has real smart guys like Romney believing mormonism although lds teachings arent Biblical. Lds just dont know it. Most of his votes would come from mormons only. Not enough mormons to put him in office. Sorry Mitt. Maybe next time in the "spirit world" or the "highest degree of the celestial kingdom". Then again, you better "endure to the end" or you may end up in the "terrestrial" or "telestial' kingdom.
mbhotie715 1 year ago
At 2:26, of the video, Romney stated (back in 2007, of course) that he expected people to ask him about his religion. But, many of us had noted that, whenever he WAS asked a direct question, about his religion, he side-stepped the issue: every single time!
And, then there were the many times that he "flip-flopped and called it an epiphany" (quote mine).
There is this phrase, circulating around SLC, that mormon dignitaries know full-well how to LIE FOR THE LORD (viz, disingenuous perfidy).
orlovna2 1 year ago
@orlovna2 Some questions are not worth answering. Others claim to have been side stepped, mostly because they didn't get the answer they wanted.
lindalds 1 year ago
makingaccountforyou:: you are such a mother fucker, go and fuck your mother MOREON..Go with satan because he is waiting for you in hell..hahaha
joevane 1 year ago
@joevane And this other mormon idiot from utah joevane talking about having sex with relatives proves me and SO many people out there right, NO WONDER that UTAH is the butt hole of jokes throughout the country
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
Romney dropped out because Obama was a shoo-in.
But, after Obama gets done turning this country into another Soviet Union, Romney is gonna start looking better and better. And by then, no one is going to care what religion he is. As long as it isn't Islam.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Im a republican but I agree with the signs that were posted a few years ago, a mormon for president would be as much of a disaster as if osama bin laden were running this country himself.. the mormons want a presidents because the Catholics had so many of them, you mormon assholes have this sick fixation with them
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Having a Mormon as president would be the best thing that ever happened to this country. We'd go back to the America that was always supposed to be.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Hey guess what asshole,you sound like another mormon who has Catholic envy, just b/c there were a lot of Catholic Presidents NOW you assholes wanna look Catholic and say hey we will have a mormon president, nice try but you idiots will NEVER EVER make it and NEVER fit into the Catholic world get a clue will you. Secondly, IDIOT the mormons who live in utah are as slow as they come from all the inbreeding
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou I don't hold discussions with children. Grow up and perhaps we can talk.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Im stating facts and face it you mormons will never be seen as the Catholics so get over it.
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou I don't have a problem with Catholics. I grew up with Catholics. I respect them and their faith.
However, I don't respect people who feel the need to call me vile, disgusting names for no reason.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Another delusional mormon who has Catholic envy tries to fit in by lying and saying that they grew up with the Catholics, hey you shouldnt worry if you dont have a problem with the Catholics but if the Catholics have a problem with you mormons because the Catholics are apart of God so yeah the mormons arent
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Me & Billzibub are with you. Lets burn them mormons & not stop there. We can burn the Budist, Muslims, & them nasty 7th day adventists too. It will be a modern day christian crusade. Oh we should invite George W. How could we leave him out.
MrTravelynn 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou I almost went to the Catholic church, to join. I like it because it's not just a Sunday thing, it's a way of life. But, I found the LDS church, which is the most Biblical church, IMHO. So, envy, no. I could be Catholic if that's what I wanted.
However, if Catholics have a problem with me, it's THEIR problem, and YOUR problem, not mine.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Youre just another mormon with Catholic envy
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou If I had Catholic envy, I'd become a Catholic.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Good luck with that plenty of mormons TRIED to slime your way into the Catholic church and got rejected because we reject those of satan and well mormons are of satan
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou slime our way, what? If we wanted to be Catholic, we would be Catholic. We would study the catechism and all that. We don't even pretend to be Catholic.
And personally, I have nothing but respect for teh Catholic faith.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Wrong you mormon piece of shit.. the Catholic Church rejects mormonism so no, if you pigs wanted to be Catholic it wouldnt happen, dont be an asshole, sucks that you mormons have Catholic envy
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou You reject those of Satan??? Then why do you hide child molesting priest? C'mon you have got to be kidding.
scottyray12 1 year ago
@scottyray12 Another mormon asshole, who cannot resist bringing up child rape because of the fact that the amount of mormons who get prosecuted and arrested by people like one of my uncles whos a DA in utah outnumbers what any Catholic Priest did, you pigs love to bring up that topic because you think that by hiding it then its cool and ok, 1 handful of Catholic Priest do the 5 handful of mormons who rape kids
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou oh yes being a druink and molesting children is there utimate dream
scottyray12 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou yes your child molesting priest are so in with God.
scottyray12 1 year ago
@scottyray12 Any of you mormons go near my kids I can promise you that I will be out of jail faster then that mormon will be out of the hosptial.. you sick child raping son of a cunt
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Wow you are about as ignorant as they come. Do you really believe that all your foul words are scaringme some how? Also name one arrest in the last 20 years by a member of the church not re-organized or any of the of the other branches but form the actaul mormon church. I can list well over 200 hundred Priest in the last 20 years and that is just the ones who have been caught. So have a nice day and i know that those few perverts do not reprsent the whole church.
scottyray12 1 year ago
@scottyray12 Any mormon like yourself who condones child rape knowing that the amount of mormons who get arrested for molesting kids outnumbers the Catholic Priest and if any of you mormons EVER went near my children I PROMISE you mormons that I will be out of jail faster then you mormons will be out of the hospital... oh and hate to tell yet another mormon this we all know that you people have this sick fixation with competing with the TRUE CHURCH the Catholics,
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@scottyray12 Yet you mormons have fouler mouths then anybody
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou The fact that you say that all Mormons are child molesters proves your ignorance, your willingness to generalize an entire religion. You are making up facts and statistics that do not exist and applying them. There are good people (and bad people) of every religion, skin color, and nationality, but from what am seeing you are too stupid to make those distinctions.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Yeah right bozo, I know a lot of people that would much rather leave their kids alone with the Catholics then with the mormons anyday
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou The question is how many of them actually know a Mormon? How many of them know the difference between a Mormon and a fundamentalist Mormon?
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Oh so that excuse that mormons make can also apply to Catholic Priest we can easily say oh well those Priest who did that sick act werent really Catholic (rolls eyes)
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Well, considering LDS and FLDS are different religions, I would say that your comparison is incorrect. However, no actual catholic would do such things, and so you could argue that those priests were not actually catholic. The fact that some catholic priests did such horrible things does not mean all catholic priests would, or say really anything about Catholics in general. It is clear you are uneducated and hateful and need a people to vent against.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Get a clue, THE MORMONS the actual LDS are getting prosecuted and arrested for raping kids everyday, at least the Priest owned up to it, the MORMONS the LDS are trying to hide it by uhhh MAKING EXCUSES
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou So now you are claiming that all Mormons (there are over 11,000,000 word wide) are rapists and that the only Catholics who commit rape were those few priests? Who owned up to it instead of trying to hide it? Your facts are made up and you are ignoring the truth. What excuses are you referencing? You say "the Mormons" instead of the correct usage "some Mormons". Are you even reading what I am saying? Because so far all you have screamed is hatred similar to KKK propaganda.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 I don't agree with the comments from the alias makingaccountforyou but I do find it hilarious you talk about propaganda representing a religion who is famous for producing rigid doctrine and propaganda making. The members of your church are told what to think how to behave and how to act. Also your church I involved in political anti-gay campaigning and donates millions of dollars to prevent equal rights for gays so who is spreading the propaganda here?
MarkieWatch100 1 year ago
@MarkieWatch100 Honestly, 50-100 years ago almost all religions were as rigid as Mormons, the difference is that Mormons seem to have stayed "out of the world" longer, and what religion does not still tell its members "what to think how to behave and how to act"? Which brings me to my next point, the people that paid for the ads were part of a coalition of Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims. The Mormons were only 58% of the VICTORY MARGIN.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Is that all you got is 11 thousand members is that IT??? Wow you mormons suck at competing with the Catholics beings that they have 1.5 BILLION members WORLDWIDE SO HA! AND I DID SAY 1 HANDFUL OF CATHOLIC PRIEST TO THE 5 HANDFUL OF SICK ASS MORMONS MOLESTING CHILDREN... you condoning them makes you a molestor yourself sick ass
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou You are making things up (I do not condone any kind of child molester, but you are too stupid to actually read my comments). You are so incredibly moronic that you cannot read numbers, and so I will not be speaking to you anymore. You are obviously mentally retarded or >12 years old. You make up facts and stereotypes . Considering the proven fact that only 33% of Catholics attend church regularly, it would seem it is a default religion, like spiritual but not religious is.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 THey are ALLL facts you stupid jackass mormon asshole.. seriously you mormons only condone child rape because you sick asses enjoy doing it, but when you start getting a serious beating from the parents of the children, haha not sure if you mormons will enjoy that
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou I pray that one day you will stop being ignorant and stupid. That you will learn facts instead of diluting yourself with lies. Read your own comments. then Read mine,then read the bible, which you claim to follow. I have attempted to act as the Christian I am and offer compromise and friendliness, and have been met with aggression and closed mindedness, followed by profanity and threats of violence. It is sad that a doctrine as righteous as the bible has you for a follower.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Knowing that youre a product of satan, because the mormons are satans children YOU HAVE NO PLACE to pray to God, just by you even saying that makes a mormon look like they're mocking God.. burn in hell with prophet of satan joseph smith and leave me alone, you mormons make me sick with your blasphemy and mockery
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou You are ignorant, and a hypocrite to the teachings of Christ. You are violent and it is sad that one who "follows" the bible should be so unchristian. You mock, and then claim others do. You stereo type, and then ignore facts and teachings and spread hatred and lies. You are much like the pharisees of Ancient Israel, who instead of listening to the goodness of Christ's teachings pointed to differences and condemned him for them. You openly ignore teachings that you "follow".
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 You mormons KNOW that you mormons could care less about Christ, all you pigs do is use his name as a ploy that was taught by the mormons leader satan to try and lure Gods people away from him to join satan and his mormon children, THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT WILL CONVINCE ME, I CAN TELL THAT YOURE ANOTHER MORMON LIAR TRYING TO USE SELF PITY AND GUILT TO TRY AND TURN ME THE OTHER WAY BUT I CAN SEE YOUR PLOY, you are wasting your time with me
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou You are seemingly beyond help, and have fallen into the most satanic hatred one can have. Whether or not my church is true or yours, it does not matter. I follow Christ's teachings, but your unreasonable and satanic hatred blocks you from seeing that, and causes you to ignore facts and truths and your own gospel to satisfy your craving for hate. I will leave you with a word of shared scripture John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 I seriously KNOW that you need to shut the hell up because I just told you a few days ago that there is NOTHING and Im saying it again there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING that you as a mormon can say that will ever convince me, we have no doubt and with all of the evidence that you mormons are a product of satan, you talk of satan as if you invite me to join mormonism, youre seriously a piece of work
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Satan has done his work on you, and you have fallen to his level. At this point it seems you have closed your mind to your own churches' teachings as well as mine, in order to entertain your need for hate. You are right, there is not a single thing that I can say that can change your mind, even if it is scripture from the Bible we both follow.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 Shut the hell up you sick piece of mormon shit, dont push your leader satan on me.. I DONT BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY ASSHOLE WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU GET!!!!
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@maxbie123 MORMONS DO INDEED WORSHIP SATAN..............
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz haha thank you for your uneducated caps locked message that does nothing but show ignorance.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 THANK YOU FOR THE BOM THAT SHOWS MORMON SATANISM......,,,AND DONT FORGET THOSE SATANIC BLACK MAGIC MASONIC MORMON UNDIES......MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.......
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@lindalds YOU WROTE"HAVING A MORMON AS PRESIDENT WOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY"........HOW DO YOU FIGURE? MORMONS ARE SATANIST, SO IS OBAMA.......
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz Excuse me, but I've been "mormon" now for over 30 years and I have yet to worship Satan. Mormons are taught that the Constitution of hte United States is a divinely inspired document.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Its much easier to claim satanism while using the caps lock than to live Christ's law of love for everyone regardless of faith, or learn about the real beliefs of others.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA...........WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY I HAVE TO RESPECT LIARS...........THE HOLY PROPHET ELIJAH MOCKED THE FAKE PROPHETS OF BAAL........MORMON PROPHETS ARE FAKE SATANIC FREEMASONS PERVS.......
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz Matthew 5:43 ¶Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 6:27 ¶But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 IT SAYS LOVE,BLESS,PRAY FOR, AND DO GOOD.............NOTHING ABOUT RESPECT...........MORMONS ARE TRUE SATANIST........THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT.........JESUS IS GOD AND TRUTH IS NEVER HATE............
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz
1 Peter 2:17
Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@maxbie123 MORMONS AREN'T BELIEVERS IN GOD OR JESUS...........MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN........PROPER RESPECT TO MORMONS IS TO TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND TELL THEM TO REPENT BEFORE ITS TO LATE...........MORMONS IN THEIR CURRENT STATE ARE SATANIST........MORMONS WORSHIP SATAN.........
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz To quote the articles of faith of the LDS church "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.". This soundly disproves your entire post. For someone who spends so much time on the internet to attack Mormons you know little about their religion. Also turn caps lock off, it denotes yelling and makes it harder to interact with you in a thoughtful way. Also when you "yell" at someone it makes them defensive and less receptive to your lies.
maxbie123 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz Truth is not hate, but you don't speak truth. That is hate.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds MORMONS LIE...........LYING IS HATE......MORMONS ARE EARTHLY HATERS FOR SATAN.........MORMONS WORSHIP JOE SMITHS SATAN VERSION OF JESUS........JESUS IS GOD,ALWAYS HAS BEEN GOD,ALWAYS WILL BE GOD........
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz You are too ignorant to even respond to anymore. Did you know that all capital letters means shouting? You are practically foaming at the mouth. You call us foul names without one well thought out reason. we know what we are. God knows what we are. I am right where God wants me. If I were to follow you, I would bring the wrath of God down on me. Sorry, I odn't want that.
Continue your ranting, you only embarrass yourself. And God and Jesus.
lindalds 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz yeah too bad caps lock is helping your case against the mormons,some of you evangelicals are just plain dirtbags!
solarflare311 1 year ago
@lindalds YOU WORSHIP SATAN EVERYDAY........MORMONS ARE A SATANIC LUCIFERIAN CULT........WAKE UP
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz screaming disgusting epithets does not make truth. Why don't you prove to us that you are right. Give us some proof that Thomas S. Monson and his counselors are "fake satanic freemasons pervs..."
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds TRUTH IS NEVER DISGUSTING ........WHY ARE YOU DISGUSTED.........WHY DO YOU WORSHIP JOE SMITHS SATAN JESUS.....WHY DO YOU PRAISE THE WHOREMONGOR SATANIST FREEMASON SEX PERVERT FORNICATOR JOE SMITH.........JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS GOD...........JOE SMITH BOM JESUS DOSENT EVEN EXIST........ONLY IN THE FIGMENT OF A SATAN POSSESSED MORMON BRAIN.........THOMAS MONSON IS A SATANIC BLACK MAGIC FREEMASON SYMBOL WEARING MORMON UNDERWEARING TRUE SATAN PROPHET, FREEMASONRY IS SATANISM AND SO R MORMON
eitoobmiz 1 year ago
@eitoobmiz I am disgusted by your attitude, by your total ignorance, by your language, and by your hatred.
lindalds 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou Oh, and BTW, I'm not from Utah, and I was not brought up in the LDS church. only about 14% of the Mormons in the world are in Utah. So your "inbred Utah Mormon" stuff just shows how truly ignorant you are of Mormons.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds So yeah leave this country to be run by Catholics this way it will be run like a US country and not a 3rd world country, as they always say a mormon for president would be as much of a disaster as if osama bin laden were running this country himself, a mormon would NEVER get enough votes Romney knew that and thats why he stepped out, I rest my case
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
How typical of a Mormon to call everyone else bigoted.
MormonUnApologist 1 year ago
The state or should I say the 3rd world country of utah because thats the way they run utah is the butt hole of jokes throughout the country, with all of the years of mormon incest made their kids to come out slow and stupid as hell, no wonder further advanced schools had to be asked to come to utah to teach utah the latest in technology,they have a very slow mentality and are scared to live in a fast paced society
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou You are such an idiot you obviosly dont know how much technology and industry comes out of utah
MrTravelynn 1 year ago
@MrTravelynn Hey asshole, I realize that I am talking to slow inbred mormons in this room who are from utah, if it werent for further advanced states and schools out there you mormon inbreds from utah wouldnt know how to have industries of your own, doesnt come out of utah dumb ass inbred, IT GETS SENT TO UTAH... omg you inbreds are so slow
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
@makingaccountforyou I work constuction and build shit all over the west hell the mormons pretty much built las vegas and Iam not a mormon or christian Idont believe in your easter bunny, santa or jebus but the way you spout your pure hatred in thier name just proves how truly christian you are why dont you go hold some crusades you ass clown
MrTravelynn 1 year ago
@MrTravelynn Everything the mormons from utah have done they were taught by other people, the mormons from utah dont have the mental capability to be able to create and build things on their own, too many years of them inbreeding and mixing the same genes and chromosomes made their spawn come out slow throughout the years, SERIOUSLY everyone knows that
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
All you have to do is quote Young. He said that there was nothing he said that his followers could not consider scripture.
Brigham Young was a nasty piece of work.
thesignsoflife7 2 years ago
@thesignsoflife7 Yeah doesnt surprise me that you mormons quote your satanic mormon prophets instead of Jesus Christ
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
Bye bye Romney Moron!
MarkieWatch100 2 years ago
makingaccountforyou:: you are such a mother fucker, go and fuck your mother MOREON..Go with satan because he is waiting for you in hell..hahaha
joevane 1 year ago
According to the theological definition of the term, a cult is a group that denies essential biblical doctrine while claiming to be Christian or in harmony with true Christianity. While Mormons claim to be members of the one true Christian church, they deny historic and essential Christian doctrines; therefore, evangelical Christians do, indeed, consider it a cult of Christianity.
theminimumdog 2 years ago
@theminimumdog
really? give me even ONE biblical piece of doctrine that Mormons do not believe to be true! i continue to be amazed at how definitively people slam something they know nothing about. the principles and fundamental teachings of the Mormon church follows the teachings of the bible more than any religion that exists today.
dg1821 1 year ago
there are alot of you that have no idea what you are talkin about! mormons are good people I like everyone of them ive ever met!
209075 2 years ago
@209075
Who is talking about "good", here??
The discussion is on "ideas", not on "personalities".
orlovna2 2 years ago
@209075 Yeah mormons are such good people that one of my uncles in utah whos a DA prosecutes and arrest mormons for child molesting, drug dealing, spousal abuse, yeah such good people, I mean really the Catholics are a lot better then the mormons, and the mormons hate that cus they have been in this sick competition wit the Catholics for years, 1.5 BILLION Catholics to the mormons 13 million satanic cult members yeah I dont think you can compete
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
chain, you have no idea what you are talking about! Utah has one of the highest gpa's in the country and the lowest crime rate dumb ass! the only confirmed brother knockin up his sister was your parents! I hope you never breed!
209075 2 years ago
@209075 Are you on crack??? Uhh utah is known to be one of the slowest most dumb people in the country because of the amount of mormon incest throughout the years, you cant just mix the same chormosomes and genes and expect a kid to be with it in the head, you barbaric idiots from utah will learn to be grateful that further advanced schools were asked to come to utah and teach utah education, OMG you idiot haha, Harvard Med,Penn State is among theee highest in GPAs
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The state of or should I say the 3rd world country of utah (because the mormons run utah like one) is the butthole of jokes throughout the country, so many slow people in utah because of the mormons constant inbreeding, you can't have a kid with your blood related brother or sister or uncle and expect to have smart children, utah is very stupid, so stupid that further advanced schools were asked to come to utah to teach utah the latest in technology throughout the decades
chainsticks88 2 years ago
Too many folks are worried about other's beliefs. As a matter of fact, you almost sound intimidated by what the Mormons stand for. My take is this, if you believe in your faith (religion), they why not pour your heart, mind, & soul in to it instead of degrading others beliefs. And if you are a christian, shouldn't you be displaying Christlike attributes / character by respecting others beliefs. God bless you and I'm quite sure he loves you as well.
reupenaaa 2 years ago
do some research mormonism is not a faith its a cult-big difference
uhnter1 2 years ago
You do some reserch.... Its not a cult at all. Its a religion. I love been a mormon and people say stuff about us all the time because truth hurts,
pushallthebuttons 2 years ago
@pushallthebuttons Hey pushallthebuttons, mormonism is a filthy piece of shit satanic cult that got started by joseph smith when he was chosen by satan to USE Jesus Christ name on the mormons SO CALLED church just to try and fool Gods children..hail joseph smith prophet of satan right
makingaccountforyou 1 year ago
And how do we know a false prophet? by works. Says so there in Matthew Chapter 7. The thing we must remember is that Joseph Smith claimed the inspiration from god, that instituted the laws that people call blasphemy today. It just shows that god's standards, and the world's, are different. Therefore, try actually learning about the mormon church's beliefs (real beliefs) rather than what lying, slandering, "christians" say about it. thanks.
masdawg1566 2 years ago
Mormons claim to follow christs teachings but they dont, if they did they would immediately recognize that J Smith is a false prophet, THey partake in Rituals, again warned not to partake in specifically, They are constanly changing their teachings which is contrary to gods standard, Its all based on emotianal reaction and lies, And control by force over their members
dajhrm 2 years ago
If anyone thinks Mormons are not extreme, then read their own church history. Joseph Smith married 33 wives, some as young as 14 yrs. He sent a mob and destroyed a printing press that was exposing this. Brigham Young believed in taking peoples lives for marrying blacks, adultery, leaving the church and theft. Mormons murdered 120 men, women and children at Mountain Meadows in 1857. Present day Mormon leaders rule their members by force and are arrogant with the power tithing money gives them.
Mr1afterlife 2 years ago
Mormonism is hokey.
The Garden of Eden in Jackson, Missouri? Give me a break.
jasedotcom 2 years ago
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There IS ONLY ONE JESUS; The JESUS of The BIBLE. The Jesus of the Jehovahs Witnesses was tortured on a STAKE, with ONE nail driven through both hands, over his head. The mormon Jesus is a POLYGAMIST, from Adam God having sex with Virgin Mary. NEITHER PREACH the CROSS. 1Corin1:18"For Preaching of The CROSS is to them that PERISH, FOOLISHNESS, but to US that are SAVED, it is the POWER of GOD.Eph2:8"For by GRACE are you SAVED through FAITH; & NOT of YOURSELVES. It's The GIFT of GOD...NOT BY WORKS
reverendluke 2 years ago
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A mormon that was VERY well versed in lds HISTORY, ADMITTED to me, '...Yes, i KNOW what you're saying is TRUE.. I KNOW that joseph smith is a FALSE PROPHET.. BUT, I just can't BELIEVE that GOD could send ANYONE to HELL, that LEADS A CLEAN LIFE." The PROBLEM with that, is that "ALL have SINNED", and "By the WORKS of the LAW, shall NO flesh be JUSTIFIED..Gal2:16,Rom3:23. JESUS PAID for our SINS on the CROSS, because there was NO other WAY, for US to get to Heaven. We're SAVED by GRACE, NOT WORKS
reverendluke 2 years ago
Brutally murdered huh? Joseph Smith shot and killed 2 men before being killed himself. A little fact the Church likes to wash-over. Hyrum was murdered but again, what was the reason? The Church had destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor a clear violation of the Constitution for revealing the truth of Joseph Smith's polygamy. LDS History is extremely one-sided.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
It's not one-sided. A similar revolver is on display at the official church history museum and discusses Joseph defending himself. Get your facts straight please before posting.
And if you failed to realize it, you're defending the murderers for their actions.
djwright44 2 years ago
It's on display at the Museum but the tour guides at Carthage are very reluctant to mention it. Why not display it at Carthage since that's where it was used?
dfwsunking 2 years ago
Brilliant logic! The Warsaw Ghetto uprising then, by your logic, proves that the Jews deserved to be killed, since they also tried to defend themselves against the Nazis. So 4 men, attacked by 150, are suddenly the aggressors? Wow. And, by the way, sadly, none of the murdering mobbers were killed but two were wounded. At least get your facts straight, before you condemn the victims of a lynch mob.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
By your logic are the people who died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising lambs to the slaughter and martyrs? Joseph was murdered but not a lamb to the slaughter like Jesus either. The church conveniently omits the gunfight and other facts to portray him as a truly innocent martyr which he was not.
Finally, Joseph did kill two men as stated by John Taylor in the History of the Church: "I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."
dfwsunking 2 years ago
Umm...were the Jews slaughtered like lambs, and martyrd for their religious beliefs. Of course. And no one said Joseph was sent to earth to die like Jesus, so your comparison is rather lame. I hope any human does all they can to defend their life and the life of their friends. The church omits nothing about that tragic day, including his attempt at defense of himself and the other innocent men. Use more than one reference. Taylor was repeating a rumor, which was later shown in error.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
Nice spin. Self-defense (Carthage, Warsaw or otherwise) is not "lambs to the slaughter". A lamb doesn't attempt to kill those intent on killing it. Why do you think Jesus is called the Lamb of God? Because according to Isiah: "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." Mormons use the term "lamb to the slaughter" to make JS equally comparable to Jesus.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
Actually, that comment is a quote from J.S. when he rode voluntarily to Carthage, prophesying his own death. We don't "use the term to make J.S. equally comparable to Jesus", and your equating of the two suggests a desire to mispresent the facts. Ask yourself this; was his surrender voluntary? Yes. Was he murdered in cold blood? Yes. Was he innocent of the charge of treason? Yes. The rest of your diatribe is just slant and religious bigotry.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
I'm aware of the origin of the statement. His surrender initially was not voluntary he was going to flee west but was told he was a coward and decided he had to face the music. He was murdered yes but not in cold blood as you like to claim as he killed two people in the process of defending himself. In cold blood refers to someone who is defenselessly murdered.
Finally what makes you think he was innocent of the charge of treason? When has it ever been legal to destroy a printing press?
dfwsunking 2 years ago
You keep citing "killing two people", which is not true--though frankly I'd have no problem with that. And 150 to 4 IS "defenseless". Look up the word "treason". That's a charge that has nothing to do with private property rights, and was simply trumped up to avoid posting of bail, which could be done for property damage, but not a federal offense. It was all a sham to get him into the mob's hands. Though I perceive you have no problem with the murders, just the little ladies pistol.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
You say it's not true yet offer no evidence to refute this. Why would John Taylor lie? Joseph Smith committed treason by violating the First Amendment of the Constitution (Freedom of Speech) the same Constitution the D&C claims was written by the hands of inspired men. I'm not siding with the mob in any way. What I'm saying is their wrongful actions don't justify the church's actions in deceitfully ommitting inconvenient facts either as well as using JS's murder to justify killing a wagon party.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
Dallin Oaks wrote the definitive book "The Carthage Conspiracy", which clarifies wounded versus dead. John Taylor didn't "lie", but said what he had heard from others..."I am informed..." FYI: Treason is defined as attempting to overthrow the government, replace it, or bring about it's destruction. We've never charged a citizen with treason for an alleged breach of one of the amendments. Bootleggers in the 20's weren't charged with treason for violating the 18th amendment during prohibition.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
No defenseless is when you don't have any means available to defend yourself. I could use that same rationale to argue the 300 spartans were defenseless too against tens of thousands of Persians and were murdered in "cold blood".
dfwsunking 2 years ago
300 warriors, trained as soldiers from their youth, armed to the teeth, holding a narrow pass, with all their weapons of war, shields, spears, swords...yeah. That's the same thing as a pocket deringer. You've changed my mind on that. If only J.S. had confined his defense to a rubber band, or a spit wad, to avoid being seen as the "aggressor". What was he thinking??
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
John Taylor used both the words wounded and dead so what's there to clarify? Furthermore, Oaks does mention a man who gun wound inflicted by JS caused him to die 6 months later. We can argue all day about wounded or dead but the point is this. Show the events as they actually happened, gun and all and let the viewers come to their own conclusion. The church won't do that as its more interested in faith promotion rather than truth.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
Okay...if that floats your boat. But I feel it says something that you feel the need to fault a minor point, as if it invalidates the honor, courage, and dedication of men who gave their lives, agree with them or not. Nobility is not lessened because JS resisted an evil mob. BTW; passion plays often skip showing Peter's murderous attack defending Christ in Gethsemanie. Are you surprised they focus on the main event, not the footnote? Detractors would find fault either way due to prejudice.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
I'm not suprised on the focus of the main event however the church has a long history of omitting, obscuring, sanitizing anything that paints it in a non faith promoting light. Here's just a few:
1. JS using a seer stone top hat to translate the BOM
2. JS's polygamous marriages to already married women and underage girls
3. BY and the Adam-God theory
4. Practicing polygamy after the Manifesto
5. Racist teachings from GA's
Sorry if the constant deceit has made me a bit angry...
dfwsunking 2 years ago
All faiths have areas not fully revealed after time has passed and the players aren't there to explain. 1,2,4 are cases to be made either way, depends on the authority/theory you accept. 3 is easily explained, but no space here. 5 is not a problem as even men of God reflect their biases due to free agency. Peter was a total bigot but God still used him. (Read Gal 2). A few LDS GA's by today's standards, made errors on race relations as viewed today. Not fair to expect 2009 in older eras.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
(cont'd)...but you miss the point. It wouldn't matter if they'd been wounded or died. They were a murdering lynch mob, breaking the law, committing murder!!!! Last I checked, it's okay to defend yourself and your friends under those conditions. You're actually blaming the victims for self defense, and misrepresenting history. Did you get excommunicated or something to have this much bile and hatred?
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
"The church omits nothing about that tragic day" No nothing at all, other than any mention of the gun at the Carthage jail tours and in church film. If you go through the tour there nothing about the gun is ever mentioned (unless of course someone brings it up). This is deliberately omitted to once again portray Joseph as a "lamb to the slaughter" like Jesus.
Finally, I love the way Mormons when they refute the message start shooting at the messenger with the "you must have sinned" card.
dfwsunking 2 years ago
We also don't talk about what clothes they were wearing, or whether their shoes were tied or untied. 150 against 4, you see as no justification for defense? For you to focus on a reasonable attempt to defend your life and the life of your friends, AS AN INDICTMENT OF THE VICTIMS, is incredibly ignorant. And I wasn't accusing you of "sin", but trying to see why you're so full of hate and religious bigotry. You have an axe to grind, and often that comes from anger over something.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
I meant to say can't refute the message in my last post. It's the classic fallacy argumentum ad hominem.
Bile and hatred? I'm not making any attacks against you personally but am challenging your church for the misleading way in which they represent the events of Carthage. I know, "its wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true" (Dallin H. Oaks) and as such I should stop questioning and fall back in line. Wasn't exed either but thanks for playing...
dfwsunking 2 years ago
So you feel no bile or hatred towards the church? (I never implied against me.) You really see no glaring bias, when you focus on condemning the victims, and pardoning the mob? I don't hear any condemnation of the murderers, but only the murdered. You're mad and bitter about something, which is evident by your focusing on the least important issue of the Carthage experience, and ignoring the most important issues.
wgagandalf007 2 years ago
The mountain meadow masacre movie was a huge dud. Unlike the Catholic church, Mormons do not "boycott" or bitch about it, because they know it generates unwanted publicity.
luomio 2 years ago
September Dawn? Hm... I didn't even hear about it. Did it go straight to DVD?
andresx101 2 years ago