I'm a law student in Trinity College. Doing an essay on the impact of this case on the Irish Legal system. From about 9.00 on helped me a good bit for gen. info. Thanks for uploading :-)
So what that you can't get abortion in Ireland. London is only 45 minutes away on a plane and you can get it there for €299. Tell them you're coming from Ireland and they'll get it over and done with quickly so you can go home the same day you went over.
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I will just say this. In Ireland there are now illegal abortions being carried out, maybe not with knitting needles but for sure not done in a professional way. Unqualified people, illegal drugs, self abuse have been used for years to abort unwanted pregnancy even when the law of the land permits it. Are you saying this type of thing does not happen, backstreet abortion, illegal drugs, punch to stomach. The essence of Vera Drake comes in many guises.
@DLandonCole Sorry I misunderstood your comment but you would be amazed how many people do not know how some abortions are carried out. My eldest son was watching me write the last comment and had no idea about the use of knitting needles and back street abortion. He just took it for granted that a women went to the hospital.
I'm an atheist AND pro-life. I believe that abortion needs to be legal. It should be a fundamental right of any woman to terminate their pregnancy. However, if it is likely that a foetus will survive the full term of pregnancy, with no danger to the health of the mother, and that child be born with the ability to experience the positive aspects of life, then I find any termination to be morally abhorrent.
@GrudgyDiablo nice but how about finding out my position before making yourself look a complete fucking eejit , I'm pro-life , but I do know that there are circumstances where it is unavoidable , and even though I think you should try and keep the baby after rape or incest I have NO INTEREST in forcing others to make the same choice when they are already suffering enough , so blow me you crazy fucknut and stop reacting on autopilot
As to Ireland, congratulations to going back to the days of knitting needles, blood and pain…….The anti blasphemy law was wrong but this is dam right cruel and stupid….what the hell has gone wrong with your logic.
Well, here's my solution, let's (U.S. & U.K.) stop recognizing the Holy See as a legitimate entity and put some embargoes and shit on them, this will weaken their influence and power in such places like Ireland which will in turn empower the people. But of course we know that ain't gonna happen because we wouldn't be able to use them to gain intelligence on other countries to support corporate interests, thank wikileaks for that info (01VATICAN3507)
@Obasiliasfilosofos You have no idea what you're talking about, you think those hundreds of millions of dollars they bring in every year come from god? Do you even know what embargo means?
@DiwataMan There is states doing far worse shit then simply telling its followers (outside of their borders) that "abortion is murder" & a grave sin, The faults with the Irish themselves for mixing church & state, An embargo is never ever gonna happen ,even if it did it wouldn't work given that the Vatican funds itself primarily of off money donated at the church collection plates , there is no trade but tourism going on, all the Vatican would have to do is join Italy to escape it.
@DiwataMan I'm not sure how that would help. A great many states would continue to recognise the Vatican and I don't think its moral influence is dependent on its statehood.
There is a debate starting on abortion in Ireland, the pro choice side are finding their feet and pushing against the spuc heads and the youth defense league! Prime Time did a good programe on this (although William Binchy is a complete arse and noone likes him- not even his own sister) heres the link if you want I really recommend it!
rte.ie/news/av/2010/1216/primetime.html#
I have the Miss D interview on my account if you can't access the programme!
Excellent overview, thank you! I hope that they will also at the very least implement exemptions for pregnancies following rape or incest and pregnancies with health risks for the mother. How can anyone be against that?
Your talking about a country where condoms were illegal until 1978, and even then it was illegal to advertise them until 1983, they might as well have "Every sperm is sacred" by Monty Python as the national anthem :/ .
I'm so utterly ashamed of my country right now. We're so completely uneducated on the abortion issue, partially because the vast majority of schools are catholic. The legislature was brought in merely to placate, and it's about time it was finally enforced.
I'm Irish and pro-life , but our abortion laws are tragic and lead to much suffering and hardship for hundreds of women who need medical care , I don't see how forcing women through unneccessary risks to their own health and well-being can be seen as the "moral" decision , abortion should not be stopped through legislation but through education , and my morality should not be forced on others to make them risk their lives
That's the wisest think I've ever heard anyone who was pro-life say on the topic of abortion.
My position (pro-choice) has been that abortion is a terrible, terrible thing for an individual to choose. But for a government or state or political organization to deprive an individual of that ability is a far, far worse thing with terrible consequences of its own.
@Eron2828 exactly, I think all other options should be exhausted before abortion is even considered but I'm not a doctor I don't get to choose when that time is , nor do I get to decide what other people choose to do
@rofljohn23 You say you are not pro-life and I say I am but I would say our positions are different shades of grey instead of the black and white the religious groups and catholic church want it to be, I've heard of few people who's position is anti-life
I agree that the laws here in Ireland regarding abortion in Ireland are several decades out of date in terms of medical knowledge. Luckily the grip of the catholic church is gradually slipping from the legislature. Recently, after the head of the catholic church in Ireland bemoaned the EHRC ruling, an Irish Senator said they should "butt out" that "They can do the praying and we'll do the legislating" and "if we want to legislate for...the fundamentalism they're peddling we'll let them know".
Really good video. I actually disagree with the cruelty ruling. Forced carriage of a pregnancy with the live of the fetus being unviable and the mother being at any risk of health damage is clearly and unequivocally cruelty.
But yes I'd agree it's good that there perhaps will be a debate in Ireland. Sadly catholic right wing sections across Europe have become more strident the last decade or so (with US influence) so I think it'll be hard.
just goes to show.... 90% of all problems are caused by governments fucking over their own people with ridiculous laws. You better believe the guys in charge don't obey them.
@artifactingreality I disagree. The problem in this instance is more to do with a religious organisation's overweening power than the state; that problem, for instance, does not exist to nearly the same degree in GB (note bene that I'm saying GB and not UK!).
it is SICKENING that the authorities would make what is an already traumatic experience all the more damaging. if we dont have agency over our own bodies, we are not free.
@SkidRowRadio Oklahoma laws Ooj. I am sure you know, but there is a law in Oklahoma that a person wanting an abortion needs to have an ultrasound and see the images of the fetus. It is a blatant attempt to blackmail the people and scaring them off. Its disgusting.
disgusting to me that the lives and decisions of these women concerning their very survival is somehow because they have the misfortune of being born into a priest ridden and therefore backward country - that people feel invited in to debate this is appalling in the extreme.
@Pulchism Lived there, play traditional music, raised surrounded by Catholics, baptized against my will, nearly married a man from Skibb - speak from a deep well of understanding.
@DLandonCole Danny Boy was also written by an Englishman - still a lovely song! Doesn't mean he was wrong. And it's not like I think a lot more of Anglicans - a church created by fiat killed for by the hundred thousands so a despot could ditch/murder seven wives! Some church that!
@CityzenJane Fair enough, but your opinion differs with my experience. I didn't find it perfect for sure, but "priest-ridden" and "backward" seem gross exaggerations at best. Can you back those claims up with an example or two?
@DLandonCole Yes the preamble is dripping with idealistic piety. How do you see this supporting the claims "ireland is backward" and "ireland is priest-ridden"?
@Pulchism I should add - I don't think Ireland is a lot more "backward" or less "preist-ridden" than most places on Earth - including massive swathes of the US. But we were discussing Ireland's abortion laws - which are disgusting - putting a potential human before an actual human.... something only religion really lets you do
@CityzenJane That does cast your statements in a different light; however would you then agree that then using the term "backward" was poorly chosen? If I told you your opinions were "backward" I should think you would be quite offended.
By the way I am pro-life (if that's the correct term) and voted that way.
@Pulchism Just to explain myself a little more clearly, you did say Ireland is a "priest ridden and therefore backward country" rather than 'Ireland's abortion law is unfitting in a modern civilised society, but I hasten to add such lack of progressive fervor is common in most parts of the world, including the nation I proudly call home'
@Pulchism To be honest, I want to say QED: I consider the exceptionally restrictive laws on abortion in Ireland to be backward and I think that they and similar laws, and the preamble to the Irish constitution, are evidence of the effect of priests.
@DLandonCole The claim was that Ireland is a "priest ridden... backward country", meaning prevailing attitudes are both dominated by the church and are distinctly outdated, bigoted or worse.
It appears you see this law as characteristic of such a state of affairs, likewise 'the preamble', and not a vestige of a social era already in decline before widespread access to electricity, telecommunications and running water.
I believe laws can exist more than one reason, especially bad ones; (cont)
@Pulchism I believe that you need more than a bad law and a few lines written in 1937 before you can make bald claims and damning judgments about a whole society.
You might think its not worth defending your reputation with one disillusioned youtuber, but you know, the bird in the hand is worth ten in the bush if the bird is somehow fool enough to think you have something to say.
Don't get me wrong, I am more deeply attached and love it more than most. For instance - I think Michael Flatley should be on the Interpol list for abhorent Disneyfication of a once great culture. You probably don't feel that strongly about Riverdance I assume or a lot of things Irish.
@CityzenJane I disagree with the abortion law, and I have seen statistics that about 60-70% of people support legalising it. (the number who would actually get off their arse and vote is different of course). The blasphemy law is PC nonsense which doesn't apply to matters of "genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value"; though its not ideal we are still completely free to draw Muhammed and make TV comedies with full of pedophile priests.
@Pulchism Re. riverdance, for me the main point of the show was the music, the fact that it was a launch pad for Flately to mince around the world and laugh his way back to the bank is completely immaterial; infact I must admit I found the intermission of the Eurosong contest pretty awesome (its a bit cheesey now of course).
@DLandonCole it might help to see my point if you watch this clip (you'll get a laugh at least)- from a comedy series shown on the national broadcaster RTE in 2009 : watch?v=E_JMYzIZNh0
@CityzenJane Priest ridden? True......about 50 years ago but you clearly haven't been to Ireland in the last 50. That's just one outdated stereotype that sadly is (apparently) still believed by the general public outside of Ireland.
@liamoshoro oh please.... it's a cultural thing.... I come from a huge Irish Catholic family.... we're 6 generations away and I still consider most of them poisoned by the priests....
@DLandonCole ye very true the constitution of ireland was written with special preference to ireland. also the majority think you can't be irish without being catholic. As my late grandfather said to my brother in a cattle mart when he was 7yrs old "Watch out for that man there he is protestant he could have two willy's or anything"
seriously why ar we talking about silly things like this ? when Ireland is in a debt crisis , and economists say that the euro is no longer sutainable. You tube is becoming like american politics where the unimportant matters. while the issues that should be discusssed are not.
@JulianThePhilosopher Protecting freedoms in europe is far more important than the economic functions of EU governance. Any society that respects human rights in this case the right to control your body and womens rights will be in a better position to deal with any problems it faces. As legalising abortions have no major costs, is pretty simple to do and doesn't need long political debate there is no rational reason why it should distract from Irelands other issues, unless politicians make it
@JulianThePhilosopher It's not silly at all. Firstly, it deals with a fundamental principle of bodily autonomy; secondly, the implications of the ECHR's decisions could be far-reaching; thirdly, if we only dealt with the most important issue, we'd miss a lot of the other issues that need to be addressed; fourthly, I'll address what I find interesting.
@DLandonCole Fair enough. my opinion on this is that diue to the lack of fertility 1.4 per woman in europe abortion should be made illegal. The state should look after the children like in sparta. Only east Asia has a lower fertility rate. Here we pay u 3000 USD to have a rd child and 4000 for the next.
@JulianThePhilosopher Actually, I'm not going to take lessons on childrearing from Sparta - their children were raised communally and the weak were exposed and left to die. In any case, the ONS say there were 706,248 live births in the UK in 2009 and 189,100 abortions in the same year. Given that a significant number of these abortions would, sadly, have been of unviable pregnancies or would have led to children with significant disabilities, I disagree with your position.
@DLandonCole oh of course not killing the weak that is unacceptable in todays society and i do not believe in eugenics. But communally caring could be a solution, and also stop the inevitable inverted population pyramid like in japan. Merrry x mas and a happy new year btw.
Are you fucking kidding me? We should force women to give birth against their will because... why? So the dirty brown people don't outbreed us? You do realize we have an overpopulation problem?
@Kaderie When u get an inverted population pyramid structure like Japan or in future china(stupid one child policy), it will be hard to reverse. Then u gota cut a lot of social welfare, because there will only be a few working people supporting a large elderly poopulation. I also think it is immoral to rob developing countries of their best and brightest. We do not have an overpopulation problem. what we have is people living longer and not wanting babies. And also the welfare system.
Abortion is grose and disgusting, but still, it is up to the mother. She is the only one to decide this, and if she can carry the Abortion in her conscience, she might as well do it. If anyone has issues against abortion, they should promote education and social/financial equality for people. Better lives, better education will eventually lead to less Abortions. Prohibition will lead to a black market. This debate is going on for too long, yet offers nothing. Prohibition =/= Solution.
I don't want to come off as a pedant but if you can't do it off the cuff, please script yourself Landon. I lost count but I'm pretty sure the "um" and "uh" count was well into the triple digits and when you're making good points, it's a trifle distracting.
Otherwise, as cogent, informative and articulate as always.
You'd think people, endorsing theocratic laws, might take look at counties that already have them, to see how well it works. Maybe, I'm expecting too much critical thinking of some people.
cheers landon.. was hoping some1 would do video about this .. the pro lifers called for a referendum after the result 2.. i'll send you an irish times article on it..
Will the decision affect other EU states, I'm especially thinking about Poland, which I believe have equally bad legislation on abortion and other human rights contradicting Catholicism?
@skinnyjohnsen In principle I think the answer is yes. But it depends some articles I've read seem to say the decision is that the woman in question had the right to an abortion while others say the decision was that the woman had been unfairly denied an abortion in this case.
@skinnyjohnsen Its a Council of Europea decison, not the EU. Poland is also a member of the Council of Europe so if someone brings a case it could potentially have an impact.
@Obasiliasfilosofos Not really. Catholicism has a grip on the country. Not all European countries are progressive, contrary to popular belief. Ireland is going backwards it would seem, with the demand for abortion opt-out for the Lisbon treaty, and the recent blasphemy laws introduced, when the UK only just got rid of our blasphemy laws after hundreds of years.
In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Éire, Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ...
I'm a law student in Trinity College. Doing an essay on the impact of this case on the Irish Legal system. From about 9.00 on helped me a good bit for gen. info. Thanks for uploading :-)
sceimers 2 months ago
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So what that you can't get abortion in Ireland. London is only 45 minutes away on a plane and you can get it there for €299. Tell them you're coming from Ireland and they'll get it over and done with quickly so you can go home the same day you went over.
derrinirl 2 months ago
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I will just say this. In Ireland there are now illegal abortions being carried out, maybe not with knitting needles but for sure not done in a professional way. Unqualified people, illegal drugs, self abuse have been used for years to abort unwanted pregnancy even when the law of the land permits it. Are you saying this type of thing does not happen, backstreet abortion, illegal drugs, punch to stomach. The essence of Vera Drake comes in many guises.
Redpilldown 1 year ago
@Redpilldown I'm not being sarcastic at all - I know there are such dangerous abortions going on.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Sorry I misunderstood your comment but you would be amazed how many people do not know how some abortions are carried out. My eldest son was watching me write the last comment and had no idea about the use of knitting needles and back street abortion. He just took it for granted that a women went to the hospital.
Redpilldown 1 year ago
@GrudgyDiablo No, not by a long chalk, but I think the influence of religion there has not been positive.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
I'm an atheist AND pro-life. I believe that abortion needs to be legal. It should be a fundamental right of any woman to terminate their pregnancy. However, if it is likely that a foetus will survive the full term of pregnancy, with no danger to the health of the mother, and that child be born with the ability to experience the positive aspects of life, then I find any termination to be morally abhorrent.
TommySez 1 year ago
@TommySez Is it fair to say, then, that while you personally do not approve of abortion you would allow an individual to make their own choice?
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Absolutely.
TommySez 1 year ago
I suggested you bring this topic up in your the previous video, glad you did, the more people know how arse backwards are laws are the better.
Thank you Landon :-)
TheIrishAthiest 1 year ago
@TheIrishAthiest My pleasure and thanks for letting me know about it :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@GrudgyDiablo nice but how about finding out my position before making yourself look a complete fucking eejit , I'm pro-life , but I do know that there are circumstances where it is unavoidable , and even though I think you should try and keep the baby after rape or incest I have NO INTEREST in forcing others to make the same choice when they are already suffering enough , so blow me you crazy fucknut and stop reacting on autopilot
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago
@DLandonCole, great video and very informative.
As to Ireland, congratulations to going back to the days of knitting needles, blood and pain…….The anti blasphemy law was wrong but this is dam right cruel and stupid….what the hell has gone wrong with your logic.
Redpilldown 1 year ago
@Redpilldown It's a bit Vera Drake, isn't it?
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Its interesting that abortion has the same 'almost always illegal' status in N.I.
BTW did you film this on the surface of the sun?
LatumWay 1 year ago
@LatumWay No - I turned up the gamma correction and contrast.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
I was gritting my teeth from beginning to end of the video. That so-called 'law' on abortion in Ireland is a shame!
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
@dewinthemorning I agree.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
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If condoms are available to men, so should abortions be available to women.
ari1234a 1 year ago
If condoms are available to men, so should abortions be available to women.
ari1234a 1 year ago
Well, here's my solution, let's (U.S. & U.K.) stop recognizing the Holy See as a legitimate entity and put some embargoes and shit on them, this will weaken their influence and power in such places like Ireland which will in turn empower the people. But of course we know that ain't gonna happen because we wouldn't be able to use them to gain intelligence on other countries to support corporate interests, thank wikileaks for that info (01VATICAN3507)
DiwataMan 1 year ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos You have no idea what you're talking about, you think those hundreds of millions of dollars they bring in every year come from god? Do you even know what embargo means?
DiwataMan 1 year ago
@DiwataMan There is states doing far worse shit then simply telling its followers (outside of their borders) that "abortion is murder" & a grave sin, The faults with the Irish themselves for mixing church & state, An embargo is never ever gonna happen ,even if it did it wouldn't work given that the Vatican funds itself primarily of off money donated at the church collection plates , there is no trade but tourism going on, all the Vatican would have to do is join Italy to escape it.
Obasiliasfilosofos 1 year ago
@DiwataMan I'm not sure how that would help. A great many states would continue to recognise the Vatican and I don't think its moral influence is dependent on its statehood.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
A case of Diddely Diddely Dee!
Conrade90 1 year ago
There is a debate starting on abortion in Ireland, the pro choice side are finding their feet and pushing against the spuc heads and the youth defense league! Prime Time did a good programe on this (although William Binchy is a complete arse and noone likes him- not even his own sister) heres the link if you want I really recommend it!
rte.ie/news/av/2010/1216/primetime.html#
I have the Miss D interview on my account if you can't access the programme!
TheKitch2 1 year ago
@TheKitch2 If the debate is being brought to life, some good may come of this sorry situation. I'll watch the programme anon.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Thanks, Landon, great video.
Pushtrak 1 year ago
@Pushtrak My pleasure :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Excellent overview, thank you! I hope that they will also at the very least implement exemptions for pregnancies following rape or incest and pregnancies with health risks for the mother. How can anyone be against that?
NoNiceNameFound 1 year ago
@NoNiceNameFound
Your talking about a country where condoms were illegal until 1978, and even then it was illegal to advertise them until 1983, they might as well have "Every sperm is sacred" by Monty Python as the national anthem :/ .
inwork1 1 year ago
@NoNiceNameFound I very much agree but bear in mind that the RC church still comes out with some amazingly backwards decisions.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
I'm so utterly ashamed of my country right now. We're so completely uneducated on the abortion issue, partially because the vast majority of schools are catholic. The legislature was brought in merely to placate, and it's about time it was finally enforced.
Gaythoven 1 year ago
@Gaythoven Agreed and I hope that now it will be, and just for starters.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Brilliant video Landon, I've heard far too many stories like this.
ScouseCaspaXS 1 year ago 3
@ScouseCaspaXS Thanks. It's sad how often it happens.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Funny how those people just happened to be named A, B and C.
ChaoticSupernova 1 year ago
I'm Irish and pro-life , but our abortion laws are tragic and lead to much suffering and hardship for hundreds of women who need medical care , I don't see how forcing women through unneccessary risks to their own health and well-being can be seen as the "moral" decision , abortion should not be stopped through legislation but through education , and my morality should not be forced on others to make them risk their lives
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago 36
@PinkEyeTowlie Bull fucking shit!
ndjm00 1 year ago
@ndjm00 on which part ?
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago
@PinkEyeTowlie ...My apologies ...I misread your comment, I actuakky completely agree with your sentiment (other than I am pro choice) ...well said!
ndjm00 1 year ago
@ndjm00 it's cool
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago
@PinkEyeTowlie
That's the wisest think I've ever heard anyone who was pro-life say on the topic of abortion.
My position (pro-choice) has been that abortion is a terrible, terrible thing for an individual to choose. But for a government or state or political organization to deprive an individual of that ability is a far, far worse thing with terrible consequences of its own.
Eron2828 1 year ago 3
@Eron2828 exactly, I think all other options should be exhausted before abortion is even considered but I'm not a doctor I don't get to choose when that time is , nor do I get to decide what other people choose to do
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago
@PinkEyeTowlie You, sir, are awesome! I am not pro life, but I commend you on not wanting to push your morals on everybody else.
rofljohn23 1 year ago
@PinkEyeTowlie You, sir, are awesome! I am not pro life, but I commend you on not wanting to push your morals on everybody else. .
rofljohn23 1 year ago
@rofljohn23 You say you are not pro-life and I say I am but I would say our positions are different shades of grey instead of the black and white the religious groups and catholic church want it to be, I've heard of few people who's position is anti-life
PinkEyeTowlie 1 year ago
@PinkEyeTowlie I commend you for your position and I'm glad that, as shown by the thirty-two thumbs-up it currently has, other people agree with me.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Ireland's abortion laws are nothing short of disgusting.
ToaJoe 1 year ago
"Risk to health isn’t sufficient"
Shit
celestialsalamander 1 year ago 12
I agree that the laws here in Ireland regarding abortion in Ireland are several decades out of date in terms of medical knowledge. Luckily the grip of the catholic church is gradually slipping from the legislature. Recently, after the head of the catholic church in Ireland bemoaned the EHRC ruling, an Irish Senator said they should "butt out" that "They can do the praying and we'll do the legislating" and "if we want to legislate for...the fundamentalism they're peddling we'll let them know".
notinmyname2050 1 year ago
@notinmyname2050 Interesting; can I ask which Senator?
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole His name is Joe O'Toole, he's an independent senator. If you do a google exact phrase search on the following
"they can do the praying up there"
the news paper reports on it should come out at the top of the list.
notinmyname2050 1 year ago
@notinmyname2050 Nice one - thanks!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Really good video. I actually disagree with the cruelty ruling. Forced carriage of a pregnancy with the live of the fetus being unviable and the mother being at any risk of health damage is clearly and unequivocally cruelty.
But yes I'd agree it's good that there perhaps will be a debate in Ireland. Sadly catholic right wing sections across Europe have become more strident the last decade or so (with US influence) so I think it'll be hard.
socrates856 1 year ago
@socrates856 Yes; Poland is also a very Catholic country. Thanks for your kind words :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
just goes to show.... 90% of all problems are caused by governments fucking over their own people with ridiculous laws. You better believe the guys in charge don't obey them.
artifactingreality 1 year ago
@artifactingreality I disagree. The problem in this instance is more to do with a religious organisation's overweening power than the state; that problem, for instance, does not exist to nearly the same degree in GB (note bene that I'm saying GB and not UK!).
DLandonCole 1 year ago
tid bit aggravating - everyone's always trying to tell everyone what to do- to much control - there is no freedom in the world anymore- no good
Larupo 1 year ago
@Larupo I think you're overegging the pudding, tbh; there is freedom in the world.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
it is SICKENING that the authorities would make what is an already traumatic experience all the more damaging. if we dont have agency over our own bodies, we are not free.
SkidRowRadio 1 year ago
@SkidRowRadio Oklahoma laws Ooj. I am sure you know, but there is a law in Oklahoma that a person wanting an abortion needs to have an ultrasound and see the images of the fetus. It is a blatant attempt to blackmail the people and scaring them off. Its disgusting.
DawnOfEos 1 year ago
@DawnOfEos A couple of other states are trying to bring in similar laws. I hate it.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@SkidRowRadio I agree.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
disgusting to me that the lives and decisions of these women concerning their very survival is somehow because they have the misfortune of being born into a priest ridden and therefore backward country - that people feel invited in to debate this is appalling in the extreme.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane "priest ridden backward country" nice. Have you ever been there?
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Lived there, play traditional music, raised surrounded by Catholics, baptized against my will, nearly married a man from Skibb - speak from a deep well of understanding.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
I should add ethnically Irish and well red in Irish lit - which I believe is where the phrase "priest ridden" originally crossed my path...
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane First used, I believe, in Swift's 'Sentiments of a Church of England Man'; Swift, of course, was Anglo-Irish.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Danny Boy was also written by an Englishman - still a lovely song! Doesn't mean he was wrong. And it's not like I think a lot more of Anglicans - a church created by fiat killed for by the hundred thousands so a despot could ditch/murder seven wives! Some church that!
CityzenJane 1 year ago
Church of England is much more a suit one puts on than a thorough identity - Swift was dead on about eating that Irish Baby stew as well.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
Respond to this video... Never learned to type properly though - "well READ in Irish lit"
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Fair enough, but your opinion differs with my experience. I didn't find it perfect for sure, but "priest-ridden" and "backward" seem gross exaggerations at best. Can you back those claims up with an example or two?
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism The preamble to the constitution of the republic of Ireland.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Yes the preamble is dripping with idealistic piety. How do you see this supporting the claims "ireland is backward" and "ireland is priest-ridden"?
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Are you Irish?
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@Pulchism I should add - I don't think Ireland is a lot more "backward" or less "preist-ridden" than most places on Earth - including massive swathes of the US. But we were discussing Ireland's abortion laws - which are disgusting - putting a potential human before an actual human.... something only religion really lets you do
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane That does cast your statements in a different light; however would you then agree that then using the term "backward" was poorly chosen? If I told you your opinions were "backward" I should think you would be quite offended.
By the way I am pro-life (if that's the correct term) and voted that way.
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Just to explain myself a little more clearly, you did say Ireland is a "priest ridden and therefore backward country" rather than 'Ireland's abortion law is unfitting in a modern civilised society, but I hasten to add such lack of progressive fervor is common in most parts of the world, including the nation I proudly call home'
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Woops I meant "anti-pro-life", I'm in favour of legalisation of abortion.
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism To be honest, I want to say QED: I consider the exceptionally restrictive laws on abortion in Ireland to be backward and I think that they and similar laws, and the preamble to the Irish constitution, are evidence of the effect of priests.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole The claim was that Ireland is a "priest ridden... backward country", meaning prevailing attitudes are both dominated by the church and are distinctly outdated, bigoted or worse.
It appears you see this law as characteristic of such a state of affairs, likewise 'the preamble', and not a vestige of a social era already in decline before widespread access to electricity, telecommunications and running water.
I believe laws can exist more than one reason, especially bad ones; (cont)
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism I believe that you need more than a bad law and a few lines written in 1937 before you can make bald claims and damning judgments about a whole society.
You might think its not worth defending your reputation with one disillusioned youtuber, but you know, the bird in the hand is worth ten in the bush if the bird is somehow fool enough to think you have something to say.
Pulchism 1 year ago
@DLandonCole no answer? Come on dude I watch your videos, I'd expect a smart reply from you, not a smart arse comment like that.
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Blasphemy Laws, Abortion Laws ..
Don't get me wrong, I am more deeply attached and love it more than most. For instance - I think Michael Flatley should be on the Interpol list for abhorent Disneyfication of a once great culture. You probably don't feel that strongly about Riverdance I assume or a lot of things Irish.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane I disagree with the abortion law, and I have seen statistics that about 60-70% of people support legalising it. (the number who would actually get off their arse and vote is different of course). The blasphemy law is PC nonsense which doesn't apply to matters of "genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value"; though its not ideal we are still completely free to draw Muhammed and make TV comedies with full of pedophile priests.
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism Re. riverdance, for me the main point of the show was the music, the fact that it was a launch pad for Flately to mince around the world and laugh his way back to the bank is completely immaterial; infact I must admit I found the intermission of the Eurosong contest pretty awesome (its a bit cheesey now of course).
Pulchism 1 year ago
@Pulchism If you were offended at my previous commentary - you really shouldn't bring up Eurovision....that way lies madness.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@Pulchism Except that comedy troupes have declined to tour the Republic because of the risk of prosecution.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole comedy troupes run by lawyers perhaps. Have you ever been to a comedy gig in Ireland?
Pulchism 1 year ago
@DLandonCole it might help to see my point if you watch this clip (you'll get a laugh at least)- from a comedy series shown on the national broadcaster RTE in 2009 : watch?v=E_JMYzIZNh0
Pulchism 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Priest ridden? True......about 50 years ago but you clearly haven't been to Ireland in the last 50. That's just one outdated stereotype that sadly is (apparently) still believed by the general public outside of Ireland.
liamoshoro 1 year ago
@liamoshoro oh please.... it's a cultural thing.... I come from a huge Irish Catholic family.... we're 6 generations away and I still consider most of them poisoned by the priests....
CityzenJane 1 year ago
abort the priests.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane "Let's shake the neck of the last king with the guts of the last priest" - Diderot.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
our abortion laws are a disgrace but thats what your a catholic country..
johnnyd101 1 year ago
@johnnyd101 Indeed - and not a country with a lot of Catholics, but one that sets the RC church up on a pedestal.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole ye very true the constitution of ireland was written with special preference to ireland. also the majority think you can't be irish without being catholic. As my late grandfather said to my brother in a cattle mart when he was 7yrs old "Watch out for that man there he is protestant he could have two willy's or anything"
johnnyd101 1 year ago
seriously why ar we talking about silly things like this ? when Ireland is in a debt crisis , and economists say that the euro is no longer sutainable. You tube is becoming like american politics where the unimportant matters. while the issues that should be discusssed are not.
JulianThePhilosopher 1 year ago
@JulianThePhilosopher Protecting freedoms in europe is far more important than the economic functions of EU governance. Any society that respects human rights in this case the right to control your body and womens rights will be in a better position to deal with any problems it faces. As legalising abortions have no major costs, is pretty simple to do and doesn't need long political debate there is no rational reason why it should distract from Irelands other issues, unless politicians make it
BrightonContrarian10 1 year ago 2
@BrightonContrarian10 Its the Council of Europe, not the European Union....totally different.
EvilEuropean 1 year ago
@JulianThePhilosopher It matters to the woman in the case of thousands more in Ireland. I assume you are a man?
EvilEuropean 1 year ago
@JulianThePhilosopher It's not silly at all. Firstly, it deals with a fundamental principle of bodily autonomy; secondly, the implications of the ECHR's decisions could be far-reaching; thirdly, if we only dealt with the most important issue, we'd miss a lot of the other issues that need to be addressed; fourthly, I'll address what I find interesting.
DLandonCole 1 year ago 5
@DLandonCole Fair enough. my opinion on this is that diue to the lack of fertility 1.4 per woman in europe abortion should be made illegal. The state should look after the children like in sparta. Only east Asia has a lower fertility rate. Here we pay u 3000 USD to have a rd child and 4000 for the next.
JulianThePhilosopher 1 year ago
@JulianThePhilosopher Actually, I'm not going to take lessons on childrearing from Sparta - their children were raised communally and the weak were exposed and left to die. In any case, the ONS say there were 706,248 live births in the UK in 2009 and 189,100 abortions in the same year. Given that a significant number of these abortions would, sadly, have been of unviable pregnancies or would have led to children with significant disabilities, I disagree with your position.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole oh of course not killing the weak that is unacceptable in todays society and i do not believe in eugenics. But communally caring could be a solution, and also stop the inevitable inverted population pyramid like in japan. Merrry x mas and a happy new year btw.
JulianThePhilosopher 1 year ago
@JulianThePhilosopher
Are you fucking kidding me? We should force women to give birth against their will because... why? So the dirty brown people don't outbreed us? You do realize we have an overpopulation problem?
Kaderie 1 year ago
@Kaderie When u get an inverted population pyramid structure like Japan or in future china(stupid one child policy), it will be hard to reverse. Then u gota cut a lot of social welfare, because there will only be a few working people supporting a large elderly poopulation. I also think it is immoral to rob developing countries of their best and brightest. We do not have an overpopulation problem. what we have is people living longer and not wanting babies. And also the welfare system.
JulianThePhilosopher 1 year ago
Abortion is grose and disgusting, but still, it is up to the mother. She is the only one to decide this, and if she can carry the Abortion in her conscience, she might as well do it. If anyone has issues against abortion, they should promote education and social/financial equality for people. Better lives, better education will eventually lead to less Abortions. Prohibition will lead to a black market. This debate is going on for too long, yet offers nothing. Prohibition =/= Solution.
graphattic 1 year ago
@graphattic Indeed - Vera Drake!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
I don't want to come off as a pedant but if you can't do it off the cuff, please script yourself Landon. I lost count but I'm pretty sure the "um" and "uh" count was well into the triple digits and when you're making good points, it's a trifle distracting.
Otherwise, as cogent, informative and articulate as always.
ProphetTenebrae 1 year ago
@ProphetTenebrae Point taken. Most of my videos are off the cuff and don't have too many erms but I had to keep checking my notes on this one.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
You'd think people, endorsing theocratic laws, might take look at counties that already have them, to see how well it works. Maybe, I'm expecting too much critical thinking of some people.
ctso74 1 year ago 2
cheers landon.. was hoping some1 would do video about this .. the pro lifers called for a referendum after the result 2.. i'll send you an irish times article on it..
TheIrishlonewolf 1 year ago
@TheIrishlonewolf My pleasure :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Will the decision affect other EU states, I'm especially thinking about Poland, which I believe have equally bad legislation on abortion and other human rights contradicting Catholicism?
skinnyjohnsen 1 year ago
@skinnyjohnsen In principle I think the answer is yes. But it depends some articles I've read seem to say the decision is that the woman in question had the right to an abortion while others say the decision was that the woman had been unfairly denied an abortion in this case.
BrightonContrarian10 1 year ago
@BrightonContrarian10 Where a state has a constitutional provision but enacting laws don't exist, yes. This doesn't just apply to abortion.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@skinnyjohnsen Its a Council of Europea decison, not the EU. Poland is also a member of the Council of Europe so if someone brings a case it could potentially have an impact.
EvilEuropean 1 year ago
Interesting.
whistlingdust 1 year ago
I thought Ireland was secular?
Obasiliasfilosofos 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos read ther preamble of irish constitution(its on wikipedia) and you'll think otherwise .. its very bad
TheIrishlonewolf 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos Not really. Catholicism has a grip on the country. Not all European countries are progressive, contrary to popular belief. Ireland is going backwards it would seem, with the demand for abortion opt-out for the Lisbon treaty, and the recent blasphemy laws introduced, when the UK only just got rid of our blasphemy laws after hundreds of years.
omgatheism 1 year ago
@omgatheism Blasphemy laws?
AcanLord 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos
Ha!, if only only my friend, far from it I'm afraid.
inwork1 1 year ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos The preamble to the Irish Constitution starts
In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred, We, the people of Éire, Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ...
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Abort babies for Wikileaks
clownporn1 1 year ago
@clownporn1 I'm on it, man.
Iced1992 1 year ago
:D
ManicTheManic 1 year ago