I read this dialog and have to wonder if anyone got any of it at all? We all loved each other, all hated each other- dichotomy was king. These guys ruled- who fucking cares where they collected their mail, right? Who cares what exene said? She was a superstar, and a poser- she was all time and the biggest loser- just listen to the music and ignore the peripheral chatter and draw your own fucking conclusion.
At first I was shocked that TheNewMusicRetard is still spewing his stupid bullshit here almost a year later, but I guess it's not really all that surprising.
I was there. It's like a dream. Dave Dakron died in a car crash. I loved up on a Middle Class guy, why should I tell you who it was, I still love him and they are rocking the OC makes me crazy here in HOUSTON! Love to you, Linda Bomblast!
Hello, I am of Argentine and it does very much I come looking for the letters of middle class and only eh found that of the song ” out of vogue “, i like to know if some letters me to be able to send them for e-mail (criocuervos@hotmail.com) Thank you very much
I'm tired of all the 'punks' who argue over youtube about which band is better. If this is what punk is then punk is retarded. actually it is retarded anyways its a damn clich for kids, conformists and idiots. Listen to the music and STFU
The only thing less lame about 1978 than now was that there was no political correctness yet. The music was total shit for teenyboppers just like today, only back then the teenyboppers still played guitars and sang terribly. Now they can't even do that right (wrong). They rap, because they're tone deaf.
But the hazy hippie aftermath of 1978 is still around to some degree even now. Only now it's Maoist, because of hate speech codes that didn't exist before the 1990s.
@mikedeviant Good points but i'd argue that back in the early 80s a lot of hardcore and punk music as well as those scenes created and brought forth some good POPular rock bands. Billy Idol, the go gos, etc. etc. Where as there's no harmony at all in todays pop music. It's all really bad shit-hop vocals like lady gag ga "heehuuahueeh". With techno/electro beats. Or some really badly written lyrics by acts such as My checmical romance.
And of course there's really no legit scene these days
@TheNewMusicNetwork Agreed. There's no legit scene today, because of technology. Easy access to recording technology has made kids apathetic about exploring new avenues of musical and lyrical expression. You can create an EP that sounds as good as 90% of the music that's ever been released in just a few hours with Adobe Audition and an M-Audio box at home. I've done it, so I know. And my music sucks. Just being real when I say that.
@mikedeviant Good points. There's some good scenes in socal, like beach areas where bands play hardcore and surf music. I enjoy checking those things out and some older bands like D.I., Vandals, Tsol, Adolescents, etc. still play so I see them when I can. It's not like what it used to be but give these kids(the ones around here anyway) some time, they'll come up with something really good. It's about getting them the proper influences and outlook imo.
@mikedeviant I corrected your post. But the hippies death in 1978 and forward is testament to how great punk/hardcore were. Some hippie fuckcrap is still around to some degree but it's Maoist and weak.
@TheNewMusicNetwork Right. I'd say the remnants of what is hippie rock today is more yuppie rock than anything else: Dave Matthews Band; Journey; etc. It's like processed cheese food.
This puts the 80s bands into perspective. I mean I fucking love the Circle Jerks, SOA, Black Flag, TSOL, the Misfits and Minor Threat, but this is the origin of the hardcore sound. If anyone remembers in 1978 this was really terrifying to all parents. This was the depths of AOR, MOR, disco, new wave and adult contemporary. People were still wearing bell bottom polyester pants. Six year old boys had long hair. This music was like a knife in the groin to the Jimmy Carter mentality.
@mikedeviant lol Good comments again. Let's not forget the dickies either. I left them out accidentally earlier and they were pretty fast, at the same time back then as well.
@TheNewMusicNetwork Dickies are cool. All these bands were cool. Even like you said pop stuff like Devo was cool. I don't care for the Go Gos really, but Billy Idol and some of the cheesy new wave is fun to listen to. And it took some thought to come up with that stuff.
Berlin Brats 1st ever LA punk band, although they were more Street Glam.Could be called 'ProtoPunk"
Weirdos 1st to play punk rock as we know it today in public
Dickies Possibly 1st ultra fast tempo band in LA
MIDDLE CLASS -Possibly 1st OC band to play LA, DEFINITELY the fastest band in LA, possibly anywhere
Black Flag - By their1st official LA gig (Jan 79 MooseLodgeHall), playing what would be considered hardcore (around a long time prior, made demo, played parties, maybe local gigs)
@yourgayass-Mostly facts,some logic/common knowledge.All dates listed are the 1st known/documented show/public performance of basically every punk band that played LA from 75 to 79, except a few I felt weren't worth a mention. A few may have played parties or small random shows at unknown venues prior to date shown. I know the dates from working on a 98% accurate, and 95% complete list of every punk/new wave show in LA from 1975-1984.
As I thought, you have no links to shows on any of your claims. That's about as good as me trying to remember back then too. Not everything is correct when I think back but I know a lot of your shit is off. I won't go into detail but you fucked up on many dates and listed bands later, when they played halls earlier than you listed. it's all hearsay from your uneducated googling research, as I figured.
No I know you were their and shit. HAHAHAHA BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA.
"That's about as good as me trying to remember back then" Memory not too good huh?
" Not everything is correct when I think back but I know a lot of your shit is off." Memory sucks, everythings not correct, but you KNOW I'm off? What?
What bands played earlier than I listed? I dont even need 'links to shows' from you. Just dates is fine. .. name of venue would help as well.
I know this is the internet and anyone can say anything, but this is real, believe it or not, I could give a fuck.I spent 3 years compiling a database of LA punk gigs.Info from fliers,zines,LA Times,emails,phone calls,you name it.Its as accurate as possible.You find an error let me know. PLEASE
My original doc file covers 75-84,but only 77-79 on the web.Michelle Flipside has the shortened version on her site,and I dont think its even linked to the homepage
well faggotstyne I don't believe you. Post your sources and prove your case.
you've already fucked up on many things,
The Detours formed in the summer of 1977 when Scott Hoogland (Mechanics) introduced Cox and Bean to Rikk Agnew, aka General Hospital. With Gordon Cox on vox, Mike Koerber on guitar, Jeff Bean on bass, and Rikk Agnew on drums. Rikk began to write originals, initiating the signiture OC sound with tunes such as Creatures, No Way, and Rip It Up.
Along with other tunes...19 & Nowhere, Pee, Beep Beep, and Hated...the band played perhaps the first punk show in OC; a lunchtime show at Fullerton High School in Fall '77. Amongst the student body audience, a 10th grade Mike Ness, who later confessed to stealing the band's distortion pedal.
That's a lot of detailed info coming from a guy with a bad memory . And how does that info contradict anything I said anyway or prove that I 'fucked up many things'? I already stated that I didn't include a lot of parties or other undocumented gigs.
I got much of my info from sources outside of your internet riddled perception. It's known as the real world. The real world contains tons of accurate info that can't be found on the web., but it's not as easy to find, and doesn't come with links.
Why are you even doubting me in the first place? You're making it out like I made these outrageous claims. I just relayed a couple simple facts that should be
known to anyone who was around and aware when it mattered.
But it's your right to believe what you want, and it's not my concern to convince you of anything. Hopefully anyone else reading this will appreciate whatever insight I offered and take it for what its worth without making themselves look silly by trying to prove me wrong.
Just thought I'd mention that of all the people who checked out my project, helped out, gone over and helped confirm, corrected inaccuracies and missing pieces, and otherwise assisted me in getting it as close to accurate as possible - and this includes lots of musicians and notables from back in the day, the only one who's feedback is less than full appreciation and support, is some knucklehead on youtube who resorts to calling me a homo cock polisher faggot cuz he cant accept info w/o links.
And the version on the web is way different (abridged) than my original, so you may or may not find the shows or dates I mentioned here listed on the site. I used the original copy for the post here a few days ago, but trust me, the shit is accurate. Only on the flipside site temporarily, btw. And the reason I didn't use a link in the first place is I thought it was pointless to link to something I wrote to prove something I wrote.
This is the first hardcore punk ep ever.Along with Pekinska Patka from Ex Yu 1978.Black Flag were to slow for Hardcore.Black Flag are punk rock, but this is hardcore.
I kind of agree, but the Flag was still VERY influential to hardcore. I mean Damaged is very hardcore-minded. So is the Germs essentially, but they weren't hardcore punk either.
@Druffmaul, nice try but this was considered the first hardcore record ever put out, it's even in the film american hardcore and both the circle jerks and tsol cite it as the first.
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Maybe I didn't choose my words carefully. What I'm trying to say is that nobody knew it was hardcore at the time. People didn't start using the term "hardcore" for this type of music until at least a couple years later.
You're a fucking idiot. Xene from X was calling it hardcore, as did a ton of other people in the punk scene like eddie subtitle. Nice try again you fucking poser.
Again you're a fucking idiot and liar because if you go to the decline vid with footage of Xxene in 78 she's talking about the music being called hardcore, so once again you're trying to spin history into somethng else, loser.
eh no, wrong. the film came out in 80 but certain parts are from earlier, dumb fuck. You can watch american hardcore where everyone universally admits it again, dumb fuck. now run along little child.
regardless, back in 78 at the starwood(because my brother worked their) exene among others used to talk about the violence that the "hardcore" punks were bringing and she didn't like that.
@TheNewMusicNetwork Well obviously the term "hardcore" existed long before punk or rock n roll in general, but that's not the point. In 1978, nobody was using it as a genre label for a sound, style, or type of band. If anything, it was being used vis a vis the new young punks who, unlike the first wave, weren't refugees from the glam scene, Bowie/Queen/MC5 fans or whatever. They were pure punks with no prior influences.
So it's all a mirage ? The middle class, Black, flag, eddie subtitle, the detours, and circle jerks etc. didn't play faster or heavier than the weirdos, X, screamers and the germs in 78?
there was no hardcore punk bands back then? We've already seen exene talk about it in the decline video where the footage of that was taken earlier. We've seen the middle class talk about being called hardcore and shunned by the hollywood scene back in 78. though some excepted them.
@TheNewMusicNetwork "So it's all a mirage ? The middle class, Black, flag, eddie subtitle, the detours, and circle jerks etc. didn't play faster or heavier than the weirdos, X, screamers and the germs in 78?"
I never said that and you know, asshole. I never said hardcore didn't actually exist back then. I only said people didn't call it "hardcore" then, that came later. Again, all you want to do is fight.
I don't mean to get into an argument but I am related to Brendan Mullen who owned the Masque club in Hollywood. I was fortunate enough to see the Germs, Weirdos, X, the Plugz, the Screamers, Black Flag, Eddie and Subtitles, and many other bands back in the late 70s. I clearly remember a lot of talk about some of the more "hardcore" punk bands back then and the complaints about them. This was around 78' so what thenewmusicnetwork is saying is actually quite right.
Again not to cause an argument but 78' is the time that the music was getting a lot thicker and more fast sounding and I heared the term "Hardcore" mentioned a lot at that time. No offense. cheers
@TheUWF Your profile says you're only 25. You're either lying about your age, or you're too young to have heard anything in 1978. Either way, you're not exactly a reliable witness, are you?
The circle jerks, eddie subtitle, the detours, black flag, etc all formed in 78, mostly late 78 and they were all harder and faster than the germs, weirdo and x. Most of them started off playing parties. The middle class came a bit earlier. The dickies weren't even that fast compared to the middle class.
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Decline came out in the second half of 1981. You're clueless. And yeah, I own a copy of American Hardcore. I know Out of Vogue is considered to be the first hardcore record, and I agree. My only point here is the instant Middle Class performed or released that record, nobody immediately said "Hey! A new sound! We should call it... 'hardcore'!"
LMAO. You can keep living in a delusional world but a lot of people called the new punk sound hardcore back in mid-78.
Footage is from 78, 79 and 80 in the film. Why don't you go read the bio of the film on imdb, mental midget.
And as I said my older brother mick worked at the starwood and knew eXene , used to talk to her and other members of x who used to complain about the more hardcore punk sound.
@Druffmaul, you're not getting it. A bunch of the footage they put in the film is from 78-79. It's not entirely from 1980. buy some more neurons, simian.
It looks like they took some footage from late 77 and 78 at the starwood. Interesting that you seem to think you're some expert(Do you know the film maker?) even though some footage from 77 is clearly pieced into the film. hmm
@TheUWF Pray tell, which footage was from 1977 or 1978? If it's so clear, you should be able to answer that.
I don't know Penelope Spheeris, but I do know that she shot the movie from 1979 to 1980 and that's when all of the band interview footage was shot. Even if there is some random footage she found and put in her movie, that has nothing to do with the point that people didn't label music "hardcore" until a bit later.
Middle Class Formed in late 76 and began preforming in 77-78....there is a page on wikipedia about them....these songs came out of my grandparents garage when I was a baby...
I've heard DOA, Black Flag, Bad Brains and Minor Threats as the godfathers of American Hardcore, but seriously, the guys are just as important as those bands.
there was no internet..it all happend with a mouth, a radio, and a flyer. Information was scarce and valuable, now there is a disgusting excess of it. I'm glad I got to see them dudes play live up here in SF Bay Area. Word.
Middle class and Black flag released EP in 1978, but Middle class released earlier than Black flag. Anyway Black flag had demo in 77, but wasnt released. But in 78 they got under Middle class influence, so it was Middle class first HC band and not Black flag, even if they were more important.
keith morris is my brothers best friend and black flag's first ep was in LATE 78. LIKE nov. They weren't even fast back then. middle class and circle jerks brought the speed.
black flag wasn't as important to hardcore because middle class came first and that's why the circle jerks, tsol and adolescents all formed bands. because of middle class. in fact keith morris and jack from tsol both went to middle class shows and told the singer that they were going to form bands. it's in the american hardcore documentary.
@vedicardi true but he also created black flag with ginn and keith went to a middle class show telling their guitar player that he was forming a band called black flag. hahaha
i can't consider "panic" a hardcore band at all. too rock-punkish.
@TheNewMusicNetwork Well panic was way before middle class did anything (1976) but I think black flag has more middle class in them than the circle jerks do musically etc. much more raw
@TheNewMusicNetwork oh don't get me wrong I absolutely love nervous breakdown but I don't think the circle jerks are particularly notable on their own. He's a good vocalist but the circle jerks are in no way on the same level as black flag. I mean they play far slower british influenced stuff than anything you hear on jealous again, it's just not particularly interesting to me or really notable.
@vedicardi interesting. you're one of the only people i've heared that didn't think the circle jerks were amazing. so many good songs, coup de tait, wild in the streets, back against the wall, beverly hills, just want some skank, when the shit hits the fan, etc. A lot more radio play on KROQ and movies back then too.
@TheNewMusicNetwork but I think the reason they got so much radio play is because their music was so laid back and inoffensive. They had a lot of cool songs musically, but it was all really held back and restrained, more radio friendly in general, at least in comparison to everything else in the scene.
@vedicardi Well you're wrong. Far too many swear words and suggestive lyrics. The adolescents, agent orange and the vandals were far more radio friendly for kroq back then.
@TheUWF i know . the very same wikipedia states that middle class was the very first one to play hardcore . in my personal opinion i think middle class came before the other bands but i dont think bbrains knew abt middle class and vice versa so no one really can say who was 1st cuz i believe bbrains were working on their stuff since mid 70's but it only got out on late 70's same thing for middle class , i think on black flags case they already seen ppl play faster punk by the time they cameout
Well bad brains came out later than middle class and they reportedly came to los angeles to visit jaru phillips who owned a recording studio here around 79 so you can see that they were influened by los angeles punk.
@Evilmindslo i just got panic's demo wich became later on black flag and the songs r white minority gimme gimme i dont care and no values . in my opinion middle class sound much more hardcore than earlier black flag stuff . black flag sounded more like punk rock based instrumental . middle class out of vogue is fucking faster than black flag's stuff
@cm2jr4 There are some Bad Brains demos from '77/'78, I think they were released as Black Dots or something. It was nowhere near as fast or intense as this record, a lot of it sounds like they were playing Sex Pistols covers with their own lyrics.
bad brains didn't even have anything out until 79 and only some of it was fast. circle jerks came before them as well. so did eddie and subtitles, black flag, and vicious circle, as well as others who were doing the new hardcore sound. Socal was first, east coast came later.
This EP makes me feel like no other. It takes me back to a certain place for some reason. I hadn't heard it before at the time, but it takes me right back there. Great music.
Tell Mike hi, and remind him that his show at the Hong Kong with X and the Bags was one of the all time classic LA performances, making more than a few converts... :O)
1978????!!! 31 years since it was released and still kicks ass. Funny thing is my teenage kids love Middle Class. They find it funny that I was listening to bands like Middle Class back in the day.
Hardcore en 1978!!!
ViajanteB4 2 weeks ago
What a fucking horrible sound
STFUBITTIEKTHX 1 month ago
I don't realy wish to reopen the "who's the first HxC band" debate, tainted by US regionalism proudery and that kind of intelectual blur.
But, can anybody say the same, and only factuale thing about that particular debate, thing as me: Germs was the 1st?
They hit in 1977, hear "forming" is that shit no real Hardcore punk, realy?
Why, now because someone in a documentary said that was Middle class the 1st,
every body believe something that chronology shows is wrong?
adrienfourniercom 1 month ago
real punk rock.
four songs in five and a half minutes.
irkedd 1 month ago
fucking amazing
sabotehc 2 months ago
cool faster! because I am a Japanese, although I cannot hearing words, it is the most favorite sound also in the punk rock bands heard untill now.
siosio0812 2 months ago
Man, too poor to buy anything. I'm glad people post albums like this on youtube!
theloniousthrash 3 months ago 8
@theloniousthrash Same here man hahaha
BarrioPunkRock 3 months ago
@theloniousthrash best to be a pirate!!! Arrrrrrgggg your bandwidth is mine!!!
EyeMOweKay 2 months ago
always a laugh when youtube nerds try to talk about stuff they have no idea about,good times......
MaaaarrJ 4 months ago
@MaaaarrJ dude, thats every damn video i go to.
LTopomcFly 4 months ago
why wont everyone just shut up
brockkalbfleisch 5 months ago
insurgence, from 78. this entire album is fricking crazy. amazing that it took bands like slayer to do that 5 full years later.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork I'd say it was faster than Slayer! Slayer's speed came from bands like this.
TruemetalandpunkONLY 7 months ago 2
I read this dialog and have to wonder if anyone got any of it at all? We all loved each other, all hated each other- dichotomy was king. These guys ruled- who fucking cares where they collected their mail, right? Who cares what exene said? She was a superstar, and a poser- she was all time and the biggest loser- just listen to the music and ignore the peripheral chatter and draw your own fucking conclusion.
Tobylifehater 8 months ago
OC Bands.... Fuck yea
BarrioPunkRock 8 months ago
yet another great band that santa ana has to offer...
ValkyrieCried 8 months ago
@CountTheOdds that's what they said.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
At first I was shocked that TheNewMusicRetard is still spewing his stupid bullshit here almost a year later, but I guess it's not really all that surprising.
Druffmaul 8 months ago
Does anyone else pick up a Buzzcocks vibe from the intro of You Belong?
SLAPnPOP726 9 months ago
Does ANYBODY have lyrics from the song Insurgence? PLEASE - ANYONE?? SONG IS PURE ORGASM FOR MY EARS!
abergaz 9 months ago
Love this song.
SkinheadYouth89 9 months ago
One of my FAVES! I'm always in vogue though...and so is this!
SKOTP69 10 months ago
I was there. It's like a dream. Dave Dakron died in a car crash. I loved up on a Middle Class guy, why should I tell you who it was, I still love him and they are rocking the OC makes me crazy here in HOUSTON! Love to you, Linda Bomblast!
truckngirl 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hello, I am of Argentine and it does very much I come looking for the letters of middle class and only eh found that of the song ” out of vogue “, i like to know if some letters me to be able to send them for e-mail (criocuervos@hotmail.com) Thank you very much
REGANDOFLORES 1 year ago
Short tracks, but I liked all of them.
foolishlyable 1 year ago
I'm tired of all the 'punks' who argue over youtube about which band is better. If this is what punk is then punk is retarded. actually it is retarded anyways its a damn clich for kids, conformists and idiots. Listen to the music and STFU
solidcaptainfalcon 1 year ago
any idear of the chords in this
evilcookiemonster90 1 year ago
The only thing less lame about 1978 than now was that there was no political correctness yet. The music was total shit for teenyboppers just like today, only back then the teenyboppers still played guitars and sang terribly. Now they can't even do that right (wrong). They rap, because they're tone deaf.
But the hazy hippie aftermath of 1978 is still around to some degree even now. Only now it's Maoist, because of hate speech codes that didn't exist before the 1990s.
mikedeviant 1 year ago
@mikedeviant Good points but i'd argue that back in the early 80s a lot of hardcore and punk music as well as those scenes created and brought forth some good POPular rock bands. Billy Idol, the go gos, etc. etc. Where as there's no harmony at all in todays pop music. It's all really bad shit-hop vocals like lady gag ga "heehuuahueeh". With techno/electro beats. Or some really badly written lyrics by acts such as My checmical romance.
And of course there's really no legit scene these days
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Agreed. There's no legit scene today, because of technology. Easy access to recording technology has made kids apathetic about exploring new avenues of musical and lyrical expression. You can create an EP that sounds as good as 90% of the music that's ever been released in just a few hours with Adobe Audition and an M-Audio box at home. I've done it, so I know. And my music sucks. Just being real when I say that.
mikedeviant 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@mikedeviant Good points. There's some good scenes in socal, like beach areas where bands play hardcore and surf music. I enjoy checking those things out and some older bands like D.I., Vandals, Tsol, Adolescents, etc. still play so I see them when I can. It's not like what it used to be but give these kids(the ones around here anyway) some time, they'll come up with something really good. It's about getting them the proper influences and outlook imo.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@mikedeviant I corrected your post. But the hippies death in 1978 and forward is testament to how great punk/hardcore were. Some hippie fuckcrap is still around to some degree but it's Maoist and weak.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Right. I'd say the remnants of what is hippie rock today is more yuppie rock than anything else: Dave Matthews Band; Journey; etc. It's like processed cheese food.
mikedeviant 1 year ago
This puts the 80s bands into perspective. I mean I fucking love the Circle Jerks, SOA, Black Flag, TSOL, the Misfits and Minor Threat, but this is the origin of the hardcore sound. If anyone remembers in 1978 this was really terrifying to all parents. This was the depths of AOR, MOR, disco, new wave and adult contemporary. People were still wearing bell bottom polyester pants. Six year old boys had long hair. This music was like a knife in the groin to the Jimmy Carter mentality.
mikedeviant 1 year ago
@mikedeviant lol Good comments again. Let's not forget the dickies either. I left them out accidentally earlier and they were pretty fast, at the same time back then as well.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Dickies are cool. All these bands were cool. Even like you said pop stuff like Devo was cool. I don't care for the Go Gos really, but Billy Idol and some of the cheesy new wave is fun to listen to. And it took some thought to come up with that stuff.
mikedeviant 1 year ago
You people are pissed the fuck off.
coheed0211 1 year ago
it dont matter who came 1st.black flag inspired alot of fuking bands no one can compare my opinion
lostbeatle420 1 year ago
these guys were assume when I saw them 1979
husky500cr 1 year ago
Wrap up-
Berlin Brats 1st ever LA punk band, although they were more Street Glam.Could be called 'ProtoPunk"
Weirdos 1st to play punk rock as we know it today in public
Dickies Possibly 1st ultra fast tempo band in LA
MIDDLE CLASS -Possibly 1st OC band to play LA, DEFINITELY the fastest band in LA, possibly anywhere
Black Flag - By their1st official LA gig (Jan 79 MooseLodgeHall), playing what would be considered hardcore (around a long time prior, made demo, played parties, maybe local gigs)
crankenstyne 1 year ago
LA Punk 101
Bands remotely considered 'punk/new wave'-BerlinBrats(Oct75) Quick(Jan76) Dogs(Aug76)
Considered New Wave,at the time maybe considered punk -Motels(Aug76) Venus&theRazorblades(Dec76)
Punk rock in LA officially arrives APRIL77.1st wave of LA punk bands
1st "official' LA punk rock band (punk rock as we know it today)-Weirdos (Apr 1 77)
Considered punk, more accurately 'power pop, but pioneers of LA punk nonetheless-Zippers,Zeros(Apr77)
Germs(Apr 77)
Screamers(Mar77)
Shock (Jul77)
crankenstyne 1 year ago
Needles & Pins play grand opening of the MASQUE (Aug 28 77), remaining 1st wave bands pour on the scene-
Bags,Weasels,Alleycats,Controllers,X,Deadbeats,DICKIES,Eyes,Skulls,F-Word,UXA (Sep-Dec 77)
BlackRandy&MetroSquad, Randoms, Flesheaters,Plugz(Feb 78)
FEAR(Mar 78)
The Last,VOM,Go-Gos,Consumers(Apr-Jun 78)
MIDDLE CLASS (Jul 78)<-----------------(1st OC band??)
Simpletones,Crowd,Flyboys,Rhino39,SuburbanLawns,Rotters(Aug-Dec 78)
BLACK FLAG (Jan79)
Everyone else (Feb79-Dec81)
crankenstyne 1 year ago
Do you have a source or is it just your opinion? I'd like to see some evidence otherwise it's all hearsay.
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
@yourgayass-Mostly facts,some logic/common knowledge.All dates listed are the 1st known/documented show/public performance of basically every punk band that played LA from 75 to 79, except a few I felt weren't worth a mention. A few may have played parties or small random shows at unknown venues prior to date shown. I know the dates from working on a 98% accurate, and 95% complete list of every punk/new wave show in LA from 1975-1984.
What do you want evidence of?
crankenstyne 1 year ago
As I thought, you have no links to shows on any of your claims. That's about as good as me trying to remember back then too. Not everything is correct when I think back but I know a lot of your shit is off. I won't go into detail but you fucked up on many dates and listed bands later, when they played halls earlier than you listed. it's all hearsay from your uneducated googling research, as I figured.
No I know you were their and shit. HAHAHAHA BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA.
riiiiiiiiiiiite.
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
Comment removed
crankenstyne 1 year ago
Comment removed
crankenstyne 1 year ago
@yourgay @yourgay - Links to shows? WTF is a link to shows?
"That's about as good as me trying to remember back then" Memory not too good huh?
" Not everything is correct when I think back but I know a lot of your shit is off." Memory sucks, everythings not correct, but you KNOW I'm off? What?
What bands played earlier than I listed? I dont even need 'links to shows' from you. Just dates is fine. .. name of venue would help as well.
I repeat - WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED?
crankenstyne 1 year ago
I know this is the internet and anyone can say anything, but this is real, believe it or not, I could give a fuck.I spent 3 years compiling a database of LA punk gigs.Info from fliers,zines,LA Times,emails,phone calls,you name it.Its as accurate as possible.You find an error let me know. PLEASE
My original doc file covers 75-84,but only 77-79 on the web.Michelle Flipside has the shortened version on her site,and I dont think its even linked to the homepage
flipsidefanzine. com / liveshowhome
crankenstyne 1 year ago
well faggotstyne I don't believe you. Post your sources and prove your case.
you've already fucked up on many things,
The Detours formed in the summer of 1977 when Scott Hoogland (Mechanics) introduced Cox and Bean to Rikk Agnew, aka General Hospital. With Gordon Cox on vox, Mike Koerber on guitar, Jeff Bean on bass, and Rikk Agnew on drums. Rikk began to write originals, initiating the signiture OC sound with tunes such as Creatures, No Way, and Rip It Up.
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
Along with other tunes...19 & Nowhere, Pee, Beep Beep, and Hated...the band played perhaps the first punk show in OC; a lunchtime show at Fullerton High School in Fall '77. Amongst the student body audience, a 10th grade Mike Ness, who later confessed to stealing the band's distortion pedal.
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
That's a lot of detailed info coming from a guy with a bad memory . And how does that info contradict anything I said anyway or prove that I 'fucked up many things'? I already stated that I didn't include a lot of parties or other undocumented gigs.
I got much of my info from sources outside of your internet riddled perception. It's known as the real world. The real world contains tons of accurate info that can't be found on the web., but it's not as easy to find, and doesn't come with links.
crankenstyne 1 year ago
Why are you even doubting me in the first place? You're making it out like I made these outrageous claims. I just relayed a couple simple facts that should be
known to anyone who was around and aware when it mattered.
But it's your right to believe what you want, and it's not my concern to convince you of anything. Hopefully anyone else reading this will appreciate whatever insight I offered and take it for what its worth without making themselves look silly by trying to prove me wrong.
crankenstyne 1 year ago
Just thought I'd mention that of all the people who checked out my project, helped out, gone over and helped confirm, corrected inaccuracies and missing pieces, and otherwise assisted me in getting it as close to accurate as possible - and this includes lots of musicians and notables from back in the day, the only one who's feedback is less than full appreciation and support, is some knucklehead on youtube who resorts to calling me a homo cock polisher faggot cuz he cant accept info w/o links.
crankenstyne 1 year ago
And the version on the web is way different (abridged) than my original, so you may or may not find the shows or dates I mentioned here listed on the site. I used the original copy for the post here a few days ago, but trust me, the shit is accurate. Only on the flipside site temporarily, btw. And the reason I didn't use a link in the first place is I thought it was pointless to link to something I wrote to prove something I wrote.
crankenstyne 1 year ago
blablabla, lies. nice try
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
@ faggotstyne, you continually lie like some pugilistic retard who can't
source his info. stop polishing cocks and post your sources or
shit the fuck up homo.
yourgayassdrinkspiss 1 year ago
this song rules
DilbertHernandez 1 year ago
I've been a hardcore fan for 20+ years and I've been looking for this forever. Thanks for posting this. Pioneers!
kurt52073 1 year ago
this songs awsome
TheMunchMaster 1 year ago
Love this !!!!
13ghayes 1 year ago
RAD
xploi 1 year ago
Black Flag was definitely a hardcore punk band. But yes, bands like Middle Class and Circle Jerks were playing faster.
Fred92604 1 year ago
hardcore was about playing fast. that's why they called it hardcore, in case you didn't know.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
the best hardcore album the first if im not mistaken. hardcore punk lives forever.
coctail775 1 year ago
the guy that "sings" must be killed...
MetallicaFran 1 year ago
haha this is badass
ojasso27 1 year ago
This is the first hardcore punk ep ever.Along with Pekinska Patka from Ex Yu 1978.Black Flag were to slow for Hardcore.Black Flag are punk rock, but this is hardcore.
Dronemful 2 years ago
I kind of agree, but the Flag was still VERY influential to hardcore. I mean Damaged is very hardcore-minded. So is the Germs essentially, but they weren't hardcore punk either.
50saint2 1 year ago
if ur calling this hardcore then u might as well call crass hardcore? excecpt maybe the last song
edshipsey 2 years ago
They had the speed and the DIY ethic and no other punk band played as fast as they did or the same sytle.
hardcorerocc 2 years ago
@edshipsey The fact is, this pre-dates hardcore. Hardcore didn't exist yet when this was recorded. This helped to create hardcore.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
@Druffmaul, nice try but this was considered the first hardcore record ever put out, it's even in the film american hardcore and both the circle jerks and tsol cite it as the first.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Maybe I didn't choose my words carefully. What I'm trying to say is that nobody knew it was hardcore at the time. People didn't start using the term "hardcore" for this type of music until at least a couple years later.
"Nice try"? Fuck you.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
You're a fucking idiot. Xene from X was calling it hardcore, as did a ton of other people in the punk scene like eddie subtitle. Nice try again you fucking poser.
case closed
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Whatever, dick. Fact is, it didn't catch on as a genre label until more like '80 or '81.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
Again you're a fucking idiot and liar because if you go to the decline vid with footage of Xxene in 78 she's talking about the music being called hardcore, so once again you're trying to spin history into somethng else, loser.
case closed
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork- That was shot in 1980, jackass.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
eh no, wrong. the film came out in 80 but certain parts are from earlier, dumb fuck. You can watch american hardcore where everyone universally admits it again, dumb fuck. now run along little child.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
regardless, back in 78 at the starwood(because my brother worked their) exene among others used to talk about the violence that the "hardcore" punks were bringing and she didn't like that.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Well obviously the term "hardcore" existed long before punk or rock n roll in general, but that's not the point. In 1978, nobody was using it as a genre label for a sound, style, or type of band. If anything, it was being used vis a vis the new young punks who, unlike the first wave, weren't refugees from the glam scene, Bowie/Queen/MC5 fans or whatever. They were pure punks with no prior influences.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
So it's all a mirage ? The middle class, Black, flag, eddie subtitle, the detours, and circle jerks etc. didn't play faster or heavier than the weirdos, X, screamers and the germs in 78?
there was no hardcore punk bands back then? We've already seen exene talk about it in the decline video where the footage of that was taken earlier. We've seen the middle class talk about being called hardcore and shunned by the hollywood scene back in 78. though some excepted them.
As I said, you lack neurons
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago 11
@TheNewMusicNetwork "So it's all a mirage ? The middle class, Black, flag, eddie subtitle, the detours, and circle jerks etc. didn't play faster or heavier than the weirdos, X, screamers and the germs in 78?"
I never said that and you know, asshole. I never said hardcore didn't actually exist back then. I only said people didn't call it "hardcore" then, that came later. Again, all you want to do is fight.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
I don't mean to get into an argument but I am related to Brendan Mullen who owned the Masque club in Hollywood. I was fortunate enough to see the Germs, Weirdos, X, the Plugz, the Screamers, Black Flag, Eddie and Subtitles, and many other bands back in the late 70s. I clearly remember a lot of talk about some of the more "hardcore" punk bands back then and the complaints about them. This was around 78' so what thenewmusicnetwork is saying is actually quite right.
TheUWF 1 year ago
Again not to cause an argument but 78' is the time that the music was getting a lot thicker and more fast sounding and I heared the term "Hardcore" mentioned a lot at that time. No offense. cheers
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheUWF Your profile says you're only 25. You're either lying about your age, or you're too young to have heard anything in 1978. Either way, you're not exactly a reliable witness, are you?
Druffmaul 1 year ago
It does? I have no age info on my page actually but I am in my late 30s and as I said I am related to Brendan Mullen.
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheUWF- Well, it had age info until you deleted it. Liar.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
The circle jerks, eddie subtitle, the detours, black flag, etc all formed in 78, mostly late 78 and they were all harder and faster than the germs, weirdo and x. Most of them started off playing parties. The middle class came a bit earlier. The dickies weren't even that fast compared to the middle class.
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Decline came out in the second half of 1981. You're clueless. And yeah, I own a copy of American Hardcore. I know Out of Vogue is considered to be the first hardcore record, and I agree. My only point here is the instant Middle Class performed or released that record, nobody immediately said "Hey! A new sound! We should call it... 'hardcore'!"
But all you want to do is fight. Piss off.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
@Druffmaul <-----------Oligophrenic retard.
LMAO. You can keep living in a delusional world but a lot of people called the new punk sound hardcore back in mid-78.
Footage is from 78, 79 and 80 in the film. Why don't you go read the bio of the film on imdb, mental midget.
And as I said my older brother mick worked at the starwood and knew eXene , used to talk to her and other members of x who used to complain about the more hardcore punk sound.
case closed
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork- Not one frame of Decline was shot in 1978. Some of it was shot in 1979, most of it was shot in 1980.
You don't even get what I'm saying and I'm sick of trying to put it into simple terms you can understand.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
@Druffmaul, you're not getting it. A bunch of the footage they put in the film is from 78-79. It's not entirely from 1980. buy some more neurons, simian.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork - Did I say it was entirely from 1980? No. I said it's from 1979 and 1980.
Again- none of it is from 1978. None.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
It looks like they took some footage from late 77 and 78 at the starwood. Interesting that you seem to think you're some expert(Do you know the film maker?) even though some footage from 77 is clearly pieced into the film. hmm
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheUWF Pray tell, which footage was from 1977 or 1978? If it's so clear, you should be able to answer that.
I don't know Penelope Spheeris, but I do know that she shot the movie from 1979 to 1980 and that's when all of the band interview footage was shot. Even if there is some random footage she found and put in her movie, that has nothing to do with the point that people didn't label music "hardcore" until a bit later.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
I already explained to you about the clubs and my connections but you're a blind idiot who fails to listen.
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheUWF So are you going to tell us which sections of the movie are "clearly from '77 or '78"?
Druffmaul 1 year ago
Middle Class Formed in late 76 and began preforming in 77-78....there is a page on wikipedia about them....these songs came out of my grandparents garage when I was a baby...
balic023 2 years ago
crass came after middle class and crass were way softer.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
I've heard DOA, Black Flag, Bad Brains and Minor Threats as the godfathers of American Hardcore, but seriously, the guys are just as important as those bands.
CaustiKJesuS 2 years ago
Harcore> the WORLD.
brooklynborn 2 years ago 2
These guys & Black Flag came out with the first hardcore EPs
Demonoftheforrest 2 years ago
there was no internet..it all happend with a mouth, a radio, and a flyer. Information was scarce and valuable, now there is a disgusting excess of it. I'm glad I got to see them dudes play live up here in SF Bay Area. Word.
endlesshyenas 2 years ago 2
first hardcore band?
Doors101 2 years ago 2
ugh! great track!!!
giacomo23 2 years ago
its cool how they lived where i live :)
Doors101 2 years ago
no its not
wabman 2 years ago
straight out of santa ana ca!!!!!!!
@TheNewMusicNetwork Lol. Jack gave the dude a pipe bomb.
spicyMcHAGGIS9green 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork keith morris formed a band because he was kicked out of black flag! lol
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi true but he also created black flag with ginn and keith went to a middle class show telling their guitar player that he was forming a band called black flag. hahaha
i can't consider "panic" a hardcore band at all. too rock-punkish.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Well panic was way before middle class did anything (1976) but I think black flag has more middle class in them than the circle jerks do musically etc. much more raw
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi i know i know and mike atta also had a band before the middle class were formed and the fly boys(later the crowd) predated them all.
but the fact is that the middle class had their album out and were playing hollywood before black flag was.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago 3
@TheNewMusicNetwork meant to say had their album out before black flag.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork yeah I'm just saying I don't give a fuck about keith morris because he didn't really do anything and black flag > circle jerks
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi why don't you give a fuck about him? don't you like his vocals for the first black flag record?
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork oh don't get me wrong I absolutely love nervous breakdown but I don't think the circle jerks are particularly notable on their own. He's a good vocalist but the circle jerks are in no way on the same level as black flag. I mean they play far slower british influenced stuff than anything you hear on jealous again, it's just not particularly interesting to me or really notable.
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi interesting. you're one of the only people i've heared that didn't think the circle jerks were amazing. so many good songs, coup de tait, wild in the streets, back against the wall, beverly hills, just want some skank, when the shit hits the fan, etc. A lot more radio play on KROQ and movies back then too.
i'd say repo man did a lot for the circle jerks.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork but I think the reason they got so much radio play is because their music was so laid back and inoffensive. They had a lot of cool songs musically, but it was all really held back and restrained, more radio friendly in general, at least in comparison to everything else in the scene.
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi i would say those circle jerks songs were not radio friendly at all but they got played.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork well relatively speaking, I'd say they were
vedicardi 8 months ago
@vedicardi Well you're wrong. Far too many swear words and suggestive lyrics. The adolescents, agent orange and the vandals were far more radio friendly for kroq back then.
TheNewMusicNetwork 8 months ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork I'm talking musically not lyrically
vedicardi 8 months ago
@Evilmindslo if u check on wikipedia it says bad brains was the first one but i think they re wrong
f1l173 1 year ago
wikipedia is unreliable as any fool can leave info their. Bands like middle class, black flag and the circle jerks came before bbrains.
TheUWF 1 year ago
@TheUWF i know . the very same wikipedia states that middle class was the very first one to play hardcore . in my personal opinion i think middle class came before the other bands but i dont think bbrains knew abt middle class and vice versa so no one really can say who was 1st cuz i believe bbrains were working on their stuff since mid 70's but it only got out on late 70's same thing for middle class , i think on black flags case they already seen ppl play faster punk by the time they cameout
f1l173 1 year ago
Well bad brains came out later than middle class and they reportedly came to los angeles to visit jaru phillips who owned a recording studio here around 79 so you can see that they were influened by los angeles punk.
TheUWF 1 year ago
@Evilmindslo i just got panic's demo wich became later on black flag and the songs r white minority gimme gimme i dont care and no values . in my opinion middle class sound much more hardcore than earlier black flag stuff . black flag sounded more like punk rock based instrumental . middle class out of vogue is fucking faster than black flag's stuff
f1l173 1 year ago 2
@cm2jr4 There are some Bad Brains demos from '77/'78, I think they were released as Black Dots or something. It was nowhere near as fast or intense as this record, a lot of it sounds like they were playing Sex Pistols covers with their own lyrics.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
bad brains didn't even have anything out until 79 and only some of it was fast. circle jerks came before them as well. so did eddie and subtitles, black flag, and vicious circle, as well as others who were doing the new hardcore sound. Socal was first, east coast came later.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheNewMusicNetwork - "bad brains didn't even have anything out until 79"
No shit, Sherlock. That's why I said they were DEMOS. I also already said that they weren't as fast or intense as the Middle Class.
WTF is your problem, anyway? Piss off.
Druffmaul 1 year ago
I love this shit
punker9105 2 years ago
This EP makes me feel like no other. It takes me back to a certain place for some reason. I hadn't heard it before at the time, but it takes me right back there. Great music.
votejello 2 years ago
this ep is the fucking bomb,kicks the fuckin shit outta me every time
switchbladebilly 2 years ago
you're than man...thank your boss too
HaverHav420 2 years ago
thanks :D
Evilmindslo 3 years ago
Mike Patton the bassist for Middle Class was kind enough to type this up for me and I present it to you
I had to do it in pieces because it was over 500 characters so you have to follow the thread from the beginning
spartakick300 3 years ago
Tell Mike hi, and remind him that his show at the Hong Kong with X and the Bags was one of the all time classic LA performances, making more than a few converts... :O)
hinodecho69 2 years ago
No prob ;0) Next time I see him for sure.
spartakick300 2 years ago
Mike Patton from Faith No More was in MIddle Class? really? or am i mistaken
tonyelysia 2 years ago
No, different Mike Patton.
spartakick300 2 years ago
thanks for putting it up
FlyMcGee 2 years ago
"We dont need your magazines
We dont need you fashion show
We dont need your tv
We dont want to know
We dont need we get our fill
Its esoteric overkill
Its a shiny new aesthetic
Get us out of vogue
spartakick300 3 years ago
"We dont need we get our fill
Its esoteric overkill
Its a shiny new aesthetic
Get us out of vogue
Out of Vogue"
spartakick300 3 years ago
"Sounds just an overdub
Hate is just a fashion show
(not sure this one)
The hate it starts and never ends"
spartakick300 3 years ago
Out of Vogue by Middle Class
Lyrics by Jeff Atta
spartakick300 3 years ago
OK here are the Lyrics from Mike Patton the bassist for Middle Class sorry it took me two months to get them .
spartakick300 3 years ago
1978????!!! 31 years since it was released and still kicks ass. Funny thing is my teenage kids love Middle Class. They find it funny that I was listening to bands like Middle Class back in the day.
1daxter1 3 years ago
Does anyone know when this was released in 1978?
dk352 3 years ago
YES!
nolanofboise1 3 years ago
I FUCKING LOVE THIS BAND! There is nothing like old school hardcore, the first old school H.C. might i add!
misfitwarrior 3 years ago
I just posted my own video of The Middle Class. So go to my channel and hear more of this band! If you like em' I don't have to ask you twice, do I?
philochs 3 years ago
i fucking love this band!!!
ryanwade2006 3 years ago
this record is so awesome
fuckposthardcore6669 3 years ago 2
wow this album is awesome....old school hardcore punk is fucking great.
randallmat1992 3 years ago
Mike Patton produced the very great Adolescents album.
Scalzolini 3 years ago