Let's take a look at the "rational" things you have said so far:
1) I'm a dumb bitch.
2) Biological bodies develop because they want to, as opposed to due to natural processes.
3) Ur killin babiez!
Out of the three, two were unfounded and one was completely made up. In the meantime, I have tried to engage you in complex philosophical theories of personhood, which you have refused to acknowledge. Doesn't look good to me.
@LiverWithFavaBeans It didn't say "Biological bodies develop because they WANT TO," did it? I may have to call in sick to work. They really can't get out of the dark-ages can they? Their brains are broken and they need to get some help.
@EatMAndSml "Although small, a fetus even in it's earliest stages is a complex array of cells that are striving to grow & further develop. If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort. That's because it is a living thing, living things tend to want to keep living & keep growing." - @b0ondockz
@LiverWithFavaBeans Well let's look at some of the "rational" philosophical theories you've presented thus far. 1) I'm going to go pick up a handle of vodka, lie down in bed and weep for humanity. 2) Without rape, your awesome millionaire friend wouldn't be around, so I guess rape is pretty cool. 3) Human DNA does not a person make.
For the amount of stuff you said, you somehow managed to make no valid arguments. Looks like political major was the right choice for you.
Calling a fetus a child is not an argument. Overall majority of abortions are done before 22 weeks (wikipedia). Fetus brain can feel pain after 24 weeks (study by UK Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists).
@EatMAndSml I just glanced through this guy's other videos, and he actually says something about 666 being in every bar code. I should have known I was dealing with. Excuse me, I'm going to go pick up a handle of vodka, lie down in bed and weep for humanity.
I just want to take a moment to thank @hinc1mike and @b0ondockz for making me feel really good about my own intelligence and really terrible about the future of the human race.
Another crazy thought: why don't people who are against abortion in cases of rape START WORKING TO STOP RAPE so it won't even be an issue anymore? Oh wait, but without rape, your awesome millionaire friend wouldn't be around, so I guess rape is pretty cool.
@hinc1mike I'm sorry, but from your position you can never even begin to understand what it is to live every day in fear of rape, let alone the idea of having a child with absolutely no choice in the matter. We live in a rape culture, and until that ends for good, there WILL be abortions. Therefore, I ask you to please take a little more time to condemn rape. I apologize for the snark.
@LiverWithFavaBeans i had to use my app dictionary to define condescending and I come off as having a superior attitude towards others? Consider/ponder this notion. Instead of using your words as a negative slingshot to affect ones emotions in a negative way, use input that helps others.
@hinc1mike I'm not sure what baffles me more - the fact that you had to look up condescending or the fact that you didn't realize that I wasn't talking to you. My post said @b0ondockz. NOT YOU, not to mention that you are not the one who's been saying LOL. And why don't you make the same comment about helpful input to boonfuck, who has certainly contributed more hostility and less substance to this discussion than I? Oh, right...because he agrees with you!
@hinc1mike I would also like to point out that all of the reasonable posts I've made presenting logical arguments against you, you have happily ignored. Please, by all means continue just seeing what you want to see and ignoring all reason against you. Like a good, true Christian.
You guys, listen, I just had....guys listen guys...I just had the craziest...guys listen...I just had the craziest, most terrifying insight ever....What if Einstein's mom had been abstinent?
@hinc1mike Like what? I think it's well-established that atheists, due to not believing in the soul, have a very different concept of personhood from most people, so yes their stats will reflect that. But why ever would that be juicy?
So a blob of cells is a child ? Are you opposed to people cutting out their tumors too? What about the rape victims that will end up hating their child or end up putting the child through a broken foster care system. What about the mothers that will DIE because the blob of cells could be deadly to her? It's not your body that the cells are growing in, it's not your fucking right to choose.
Are people really that deluded that, to this day, they still bring the the 'potential; of the would-be child? "He could have saved millions, cured cancer and solved world hunger! But he was aborted!" Yes, he could have... But he also could have slaughtered millions, increased world hunger and developed a new strain of, even deadlier, cancer. The whole "what if" argument is irrational and needless.
@TheLegendOfRandy its a simple concept were just not understanding. its not that hard to figure out. What happens when a baby is born? it lives. what happens when a baby gets aborted? it dies. Its life and death. I chose life, so pick a choice and remember your decision echos an eternity........
@hinc1mike I understand the concept, perfectly. No disrespect, it's just a needless and pointless thing to bring up. "What if Jesus was aborted?" And "What if Hitler was aborted?" The two have one thing in common, neither were aborted. We could argue about "What if" for a lifetime, but a "What if," I'm sorry to say, is always a "Never was." It's utterly pointless to complain about "what could-have-been," I just say stick to the intelligible facts if your going to argue your case.
@hinc1mike No, Mike, I'm sorry but one must live before one can die. Yes, perhaps it dies a biological death, as do cells and bacteria and all animals, but that is not what we are worrying about - it is only an issue when we are talking about personal death. A fetus is biologically human, but in what way is it a person? Like all of us, I came from a fetus, and I have absolutely no memory of that time in my biological life because I was not yet a person and could not care whether I lived or died.
@LiverWithFavaBeans Holy fuck, you're going to try and reason with it? Well, I made that mistake too and it turned around and played the victim card on me. The fucking idiot is telling you to stick to facts as it presents “what if” scenarios. This is why I don’t debate these shitbags for very long. Don’t make it analyze its facts it ruins it's agenda. Anywho, let me know when it hangs itself up on the cross again. Toodles.
@EatMAndSml I've noticed he tends to ignore the posts that actually present real arguments. I'm just hoping others will see my posts and think a little.
@LiverWithFavaBeans You're much more of an optimist then I am. I have to go after that shitbag boondumb for a little while. Nothing to do with you but something it puked up.
@EatMAndSml I'm not really all that optimistic. My philosophy is that assholes will be assholes and morons will be morons, but that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them. Boondumb really is a phenomenon in both realms, though, I must say. Thanks for sticking around, though - being the only sane person in a space makes me vaguely suicidal.
@LiverWithFavaBeans LMAO I'm the asshole type. I normally give them "kind of" an opportunity to have some thought in the beginning but they always prove to be a fucking hypocrite with in the very first response. I'm convinced their brains are broken. Something isn't connecting properly (down there). ;)
Also, I love how people never acknowledge the lost potential for the woman. Having a child when one is not in a stable situation can keep her from pursuing her own influence on the world. Being forced to give birth following rape can lead to severe emotional problems and even social stigmatization that could cripple her future.
There are millions of people - potential millionaires, geniuses, and serial killers - who will never exist for the simple reason of having never been conceived. Would we think it were a tragedy if the same woman having an abortion has never even conceived the child? Probably not. So what is the difference? It can't think yet, it has no sense of self, and does not even have a developed enough nervous system to feel pain, so it's not losing anything. Where is the deprivation?
Do you want know why its disturbing for a guy to tell a women to have a baby she doesn't want (maybe b/c she doesn't want to be sentenced to a life of poverty & get an education)? 77% of antiabortion leaders are men, 100% cannot get pregnant. If u get a girl pregnant, u can leave- our laws don't do a good job of enforcing men to own up to their responsibilities. A fetus is not more important than woman. Not every woman is physically healthy enough for kids -ex: kidney disease
A woman who is FORCIBLY impregnated by a disgusting fuck should not be then FORCED to have the attackers baby. Why? Because of some rape baby is now helping ppl in Africa? What if Hitler's mom told u she was going to abort him but you ppl told her not to? Disgusting, how dare you. BTW speaking of politics, our govt & corporations decide everyday who has the right to live just b/c their wallets might get light -Now THAT is horrific.
I submit becoming atheist is not beneficial to one's happiness. Gallup Polls in the U.S. published in October and December of 2010 present statistical data showing people who are considered “highly religious” are happier, mentally more stable, and less prone to serious depression.
@hinc1mike Why don't you tell people WHY atheists are prone to depression? Or are you happy with your unexplained fact that gets your desired effect? May be it was just your happiness that kept you from presenting all the evidence of what you’re trying to insinuate.
@EatMAndSml I cited a stat, that has bearing. Your what I call a twister. Twisting things in different ways to make a argument. I guarantee it surprised you to see one of the best stat sites Gallop say that. The only way to legit counter that is push a different stat against it back at me. And do self examination. Are you a atheist? and are you not happy ?
@hinc1mike I didn't twist anything but holy fuck you sure did, but I'm used to that. I didn’t say the gallop poll was wrong and I didn't say anything that would come close to changing your facts. You and I both know why you decided to attack me in this way rather then just answer the simple question “Why are atheists more prone to depression?” which has NO bearing what so ever on the gallop pole numbers. It would be analyzing the evidence YOU presented. I'm done with you, fuck off.
ALSO, WHY WORRY ABOUT OR GIVE LIFE TO A ----- THATS JUST GOING TO DIE IN THE END ANYWAY.... IF I HAD A CHOICE (AND I HAVE A GREAT LIFE) I WOULD CHOSE TO HAVE NEVER EXISTED
@playherone Bro that's not a good way to look at life we all need to sit back and realize we have a lot to be thankful for despite the shitty things that may happen in our lives, also back to my original point the women does not have the right to choose life or death for a CHILD WHO CANNOT SPEAK OR DEFEND ITSELF.
@hinc1mike the thing is ... its not a child, and she can choose whether or not to suffer through 9 months of puking, feeling disgusted with her body, not being able to drink, smoke, or even work at a normal capacity. You say that the fetus could potentially cure cancer or some, but a huuuuge majority of those born into families who originally wanted abortions eventually turn out to be criminals and murderers, and theres always the chance of a future hitler
@np42293 You're naming rare cases really. And the whole thing with the pregnancy, that's just stereotyping pregnancy, they aren't all like that so dnt act as if they are ya know. It's rare for a child to grow up becoming a murderer and even slimmer chance of a "future Hitler". Be more realistic please.
@KasaiKendia Yea future hitler isn't realistic, but future humanitarian that saves lives and cures cancer is?(i gave the hitler example due to him giving a random example of some influential person from a rape baby). Also, Are you implying that rape victims don't deserve their choice? Rare cases does not exempt them from being human beings who experience it.
On another note it is NOT rare, for an unprepared single teen mother or a rape victim mother to give birth to criminal,STATISTICS
@np42293 All I'm saying is that you never know what a child can grow up to be, they can grow up to be a statistic or grow up and succeed past that statistic that was set for them. Nope, not saying rape victims don't deserve a choice, don't even go there. But I still don't nor will I ever, agree with an abortion that isn't going to save a life.
@KasaiKendia since Roe vs. Wade, crime has dropped substantially, although you could argue that it's a mere correlation, the fact remains that after abortion, there has been less people growing up to become criminals. Look up the statistics.
@np42293 Less people growing up to become criminals? Man Idk about you but all I see are kids getting worse and worse every generation. Not like things are getting better like you're making it seem.
@KasaiKendia well considering that the population is growing every year, it would make sense that the amount of people committing crimes would increase. I'm saying like 1 per how many thousand people's crime rate has decreased. Also on the abortion thing, i agree with you that it's taking a life, only when the baby actually feels the pain such as in an late term abortion, those shouldn't be allowed unless in extreme medical cases, but aborting a zygote is hardly the same thign as aborting a baby
@np42293 Taking any kind of innocent life unnecessarily is messed up, no matter what stage it's at. Besides, most women don't even find out they're pregnant till about 4 weeks and then they sit and think over their decisions for about another week or more. Can't even tell if you're pregnant in the early stages sometimes, but anyway it don't matter what stage it's at, life is life.
The difference between humans and animals is the ability to think-make a choice. You make the point that one man concieved from rape has done good-so what he coudl have been another dictator like hitler. A womans right to choice what she does with her own body is her business, not yours.
ABORTION IS MURDER. Look what God did for Tim Tebow's parents who decided to not listen to people who wold them to abort their child.Anyone see pics of the cloud halo miles above mile-high stadium? A clear sign of God's love for the humble Tim Tebow & how important He feels each child is, no matter how they're conceived.Yes, NO MATTER HOW. We're not the judge of who lives or dies, God is,but some people make themselves their own God. Thankfully, more abortion clinics are closing every day.
@ProphecySDarko Murder is the unlawful premedetated killing of one person by another. Abortion is lawful, and a fetus is not a person. So abortion is NOT murder.
@vaseline162 A fetus IS a person. It doesn't grow into a cow. It's clearly murdered because the 'host' knows if it is allows to grow, it's going to be born and will have to be nurtured and raised. Even Romans didn't kill pregnant women and considered the blood of the womb sacred. They allowed the innocent child to be born, and then the woman was killed for whatever reason. ABORTION IS SOCIOPATHIC, and the supporters care nothing for the unborn child. IT'S MURDER, not lawful by GOD.
@ProphecySDarko Murder is the unlawful premedetated killing of one person by another. Abortion is lawful, and a fetus is not a person. So abortion is NOT murder.
@ProphecySDarko says: A clear sign of God's love for the humble Tim Tebow & how important He feels each child is, no matter how they're conceived.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What in the hell does that say about the ones who WERE aborted?? I'll tell you what it says..it say God was all for it. And, I CANNOT believe an adult would use Tebow as a mean of defending abortion. How utterly childish and unsophisticated. How old are you?
@Sueezee1 Youre confused. Doctors wanted Tebow aborted for your information & because he was 'kept' God exalted him to greatness as a reward to his parents.Yet Tebow humbly gives all credit for his fame to God. God is definitely NOT for abortion.Thou Shalt Not Kill. And God holds all of the aborted souls in His loving arms. He gave man free will, and many choose sin and death, unfortunately. Excuse me, but ugly words are a clear sign of immaturity. Praying for you. ABORTION IS MURDER.
@RuleofFive I was raped as a kid and though I didn't get pregnant, I wouldn't kill my child even if I had become pregnant. That just gives him more control over you, you're so scared of something that is supposed to be a miracle that you end it's life. Instead of moving past it and giving the child a chance to live, you let him control your body again and you kill the baby. That's just how I see it though, obviously not all rape victims feel the same way.
@enilec68 I'm pro-life, but I don't hate people who are pro-choice. Come on man, why you hatin? Just to let you know, the only reason I am pro-life is because I think the baby deserves rights, not because of my religion. Peace
@DP3mo24hofosho I dont like pro-lifers because they dont take into consideration a woman's right. I've never had an abortion, but know many people who even on pills and using other protection still got pregnant. If you feel the time's not right that's it, you do what you have to do.
@enilec68 This is a tough issue. I think in the end it comes down to which is more important, the woman's right to choose or the baby's right to live. I think that the child's life is more important and if you can't afford to keep the child, put it up for adoption instead of ending it's life. Now I don't believe all abortions should be illegal, if the woman's life is at risk, then she sould have the right to defend herself and have the abortion. Also, I'm okay with the morning after pill
@KasaiKendia nothing, yet, but you guys scare me. You're too selfish and arrogant. You don't want to understand that accidents happen, and sometimes people get pregnant even when they take pills. If you're not ready to have a kid that's it, you get an abortion.
@enilec68 I scare you? Weird that the fact that a woman can just go and kill their baby so freely isn't scary as well. It's not that bad now, but with every generation it gets worse and worse, eventually people will just be able to have the procedure and have no feelings afterwards. I understand accidents happen, I'm in high school and have seen numerous pregnancies that were unplanned. It's so sad that people can just kill so easily. I really don't see what's so scary about me.
@b0ondockz No, because you dont care about a woman's right to choose. I have never had an abortion in my life, and I wish I never have to. But I like to know that if one day I need to get one done, I can go ahead and do it.
@b0ondockz No, because you take away a woman's freedom to choose. I have never had an abortion, and hope I never ever have to get one because it's something everyone must avoid. However, I know many people who, even taking birth control pills, have gotten pregnant. You, pro-lifers, scare the crap out of me with your selfishness and lack of reason. You have to understand that accidents happen, and it's totally acceoptable for a woman to decide whether she wants to have a child or not.
@enilec68 You think wanting to spare a baby's life is scary? What's scary is that you think because you're a woman you get to choose whether you kill your baby or not. What's scary is that over 50 million babies (more deaths than the holocaust), have been killed since 1973 because women like you think it's their right to kill their offspring like a savage and toss it in the trash. Hmm what's scarier, wanting to stop this or wanting to let it continue? Wake up.
@b0ondockz Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation because they haven't formed the necessary nerve pathways, says Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at the University of California at San Francisco" You, and most pro-lifers are awhole bunch of psychopaths! Having an abortion at an early stage is like slicing a fruit a half or something like that, the embryo doesn't feel anaything. If your argument is that just because it's a new life makes it a
@enilec68 Did you just equate killing your child to killing a mosquito? Well, I'm not surprised you decided to take that irrational turn in our conversation. That's usually what pro choicers do, and that's why it's so difficult to talk sense into them. If you ever have kids, I hope you regard them to higher standards than an insect.
@b0ondockz Yeah, the only difference is that the people in the Holocaust actually knew what was happening to them and felt the pain and sorrow. DON'T YOU DARE ever compare the situation my family went through to the termination of mere potential with less self-awareness than a fucking goldfish, you insensitive prick.
@b0ondockz Brilliant response! Spoken like a truly mature individual - who really values life and kindness, at that. Way to prove yourself. Your argument there is absolutely infallible. I guess I'll have to change my mind about abortion now, you're obviously so rational and clear-thinking, how could you ever be wrong!
@b0ondockz No, I actually think myself quite intelligent. I'll cop to being a bitch, though - particularly in the sense that I absolutely refuse to put up with fuckery from idiots like you. I'm a fabulous, intelligent bitch and you have NOTHING on me.
@LiverWithFavaBeans No, you're just a dumb bitch. There's nothing fabulous or intelligent about you. That's the problem with most liberals/pro choicers/fucktards, you think you and your ideas are so special and unique that you can win an argument without making any sense. You think it's your "right" to kill your own child, and that it should be a normal occurrence. I'm not religious, I don't subscribe to any political party, but I can still see how fucked up abortion is.
@b0ondockz Did you even read a word I said? I never mentioned rights - I said that it was not a person, and I gave a damn good reason (several actually) for why I believe that. You are the one who seems to think that you can win an argument without actually presenting real arguments. Until you can address my argument and respond maturely, I will not even consider changing my views and will continue to treat you like the annoying little shit you are.
@LiverWithFavaBeans Unfortunately I did read what you said. You can "believe" whatever you want, but it's a scientific fact that a fetus has the DNA of a human therefore it is a human. When you have an abortion you are killing a human being even though it's in it's earliest stages of development. So, you can say all the stupid crap you want it, but it doesn't change that fact. Pretty unbelievable that you can't realize when you get pregnant you are carrying a human.
@b0ondockz Human DNA does not a person make. It must have a mind, and the cerebrum does not develop until the third trimester. Until then, it has less desire to live than the animals you eat every day. It is wrong to kill persons because of their desire to live, not because of the type of DNA they have. Fetuses have no such desire.
@LiverWithFavaBeans A fetus begins developing a brain & neural pathways at 8 weeks. Like all organisms, including adult humans, it's made up of cells. Although small, a fetus even in it's earliest stages is a complex array of cells that are striving to grow & further develop. If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort. That's because it is a living thing, living things tend to want to keep living & keep growing. It's a shame you place such a low value on life.
@b0ondockz "If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort."
Good god, have you ever taken biology? THESE ARE CHEMICAL PROCESSES! Biological growth is NOT caused by desire! Otherwise I'd be a lot taller.
And I did not say the brain - I said the cerebrum, the part of the brain that gives us consciousness, reason, desire, and other mental factors that make the human mind unique among the animals. An 8-week fetus does not have this.
@LiverWithFavaBeans I didn't say desire causes biological growth. My point was, anything alive, even at the smallest level (a cell), operates solely to keep the organism alive so apparently there is some sort of desire built into organisms to live. You're the one who said it has no "desire" to live because it doesn't realize it's alive. Does that mean we should let people kill their babies even a few months after birth because they can't realize they are alive?
@b0ondockz By desire I meant volition - a strictly psychological function. Frankly, if I could not think, I would not care about being alive in any way that mattered. I already told you that this applies before six months of gestation, before the cerebrum is developed making volition possible, so don't bring up post-birth babies. Abortions after six months are rare and usually only in special cases, so I don't think it is the key issue here.
@b0ondockz Also I love how you quoted me in a completely nonsensical context. The only way you, good sir, will ever win an argument is by choking your opponent with your pure, unadulterated stupidity. If you actually wish to convince anyone that abortion is wrong, change your game NOW.
@b0ondockz Comparing abortions with the holocaust, what a fucking idiot. But lets talk about your 50 million murdered babies since 1973 for a moment shall we shitbag? Why be pleasant, You're picking numbers out of your ass for affect only. All the pregnant teens I know believe in god. Theists have the majority in the US population and are the ones that preach against birth control, so statistically that means theists are murdering most of those babies.You believe in god mother fucker?
@EatMAndSml Who said anything about God you stupid fuck? Also, I didn't make the number 50 million up, it was put forth by organizations like The Alan Gutmacher Institute, which is a pro choice organization, a division of Planned Parenthood LOL. Go look it up on their website you dumb shit. Is that what you call picking numbers out of my ass LOL?
@b0ondockz I didn't say you made the number up did I you stupid mother fucker? (spin) I said you pulled it out of your ass because you didn't think (key word) about how the number came to be. Did it hurt your feelings when I asked "Do you believe in god mother fucker?" because you realized it's people like YOU with YOUR beliefs doing most of the killing? But once again an obvious theist won't answer a question, only bitch spin and play the victim. Poor little broken minded you.
@EatMAndSml Pulling something out of your ass means making it up, so it looks like you're still the stupid mother fucker. What's the matter? You can't handle statistics? 50 million babies aborted, I guess you can't wrap your fucking head around that number, so it'll go in one ear and out the other like anything factual. It would take a lot more than a key board warrior like you to hurt my feelings. I'm not religious, so keep trying. Fucking loser. You gunna cry? You mad? LOL
@b0ondockz You’re defending sperm. Your brain is so broken that you believe a sperm is a baby.THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. You and all people that think like you now have to relinquish your right to have sex. From here on your kind can only have a child by surgically removing 1 sperm to inject into an egg. Other wise you’re killing millions of BABIES so that only 1 MIGHT live. No more orgasms for males that think like you because in YOU‘RE words it‘s like the holocaust. Now, fuck off.
@enilec68 You pro-choicers scare me too! Once the child is conceived it's not a choice anymore. You already have the child! These feminist rants are crazy! Susan B. Anthony was a feminist before Margaret Sanger (birth control inventor) and not even Anthony believed in abortions. Then Sanger came along and invented her birth control and in effect planned parenthood sold birth control and abortions along with it, but mainly abortions.
@enilec68 The abortions have caused millions of unborn babies not come into the world and it's not fair to the millions of them. It's not that hard to not get pregnant, just buy some freakin' birth control or don't sleep around when you're ovulating. All these crazy Planned Parenthood quacks don't tell people the facts cause they are making blood money off the abortions, by taking advantage of women's reproduction issues. There are only 3 damn days out of the month (at best) for pregnancy.
@enilec68 It's not rocket science!!!! People should just go ask a doctor. Abortions aren't necessary. The people who get them do so, because they are being selfish and not taking responsibility for their actions. That's why pro-lifers get so passionate about it, it doesn't even have to be a religion argument. It can be a biology argument as well.
@Elikam82 As i said before, it's not like i don't consider abortions something you should avoid. of course you should avoid them. They're costly, and the jeopardize a woman's reproductive system. But again, I know many people who haven gotten pregnant even when they're on birth control pills. I'd rather not be born than be born and then live in a household hold where my parents are only 18/19 yrs older than me, inmature, and don't know what they're doing.
@Elikam82 or even worse, find out once i'm old enough that i'm adopted because my biological parents didn't want me, so they gave me away. That hurts a lot. It hurts 10x more than being aborted as a fetus. As a matter fact, embryos don't even experience pain until they're like 28weeks old.
Ha. Not sure what my comment was. You're right. But incest can cause just as fucked up things to happen! They are Downs syndrome-esque scenarios. But I wasn't entirely sure of the names of such illnesses/syndromes.
You make no sense. First you say that humans are animals (what seperates us from the animal kingdom? Nothing...we dont rule the world lolol dont make me fucking laugh), then you start ranting about rights. If animals dont have rights then neither do humans. A womans "choice" is nothing more than a desire. If she has the money to pay someone, then shes gonna do it. Dont like it? Stop her then. Why? Because life is about the power to say what gets done.
@Bluebelle9289 Actually, it is! :D When 23 chromosomes from the woman unite with 23 chromosomes from the man, a zygote is formed, it IS biologically alive, and, more importantly, is fulfills the four criteria needed to establish life: metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction.
It's "alive" on the same level as a blood cell. It, however, is not a human. Also, the reaction to stimuli doesn't occur until much later in the pregnancy. And the reproduction of cells, is nothing like the reproduction - otherwise known as "fucking" - that humans engage in.
@Bluebelle9289 Ok, so ...your'e proving my point. The reproduction of cells is NOT the same as the reproduction possible for a human being for the exact reason that it is not alive like a zygote (human) is alive. A cell, or a growth, or wart..whatever- it may be alive but it cannot become a human being. Even if you left all the technicalities of the "exact" moment when it is a human aside..what else will it become? A dog? A horse? Of course not. It is a growing *human*being with equal rights.
Wow, you really are that stupid. A zygote is not a human. It's a cell, much like a red blood cell. It's not anymore alive than a daisy popping from a crack in the sidewalk is. Go back to school, retake biology, and educate yourself.
@Bluebelle9289 Hey Grumpy! Check it out: "Pregnancy begins at conception, the time at which the male sperm and the female ovum unite. What results is called a zygote, a one-celled biological entity, a stage in *human* development through which each of us has passed (just as we have passed through infancy, childhood, and adolescence)"
-F. Beck, D. B. Moffat, and D. P. Davies, Human Embryology, Second edition (Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1985)
Pregnancy begins after conception, not at. Until it is born, a fetus isn't a human. It only has human DNA and the potential to become a human - if the woman wants to carry it to term.
@Bluebelle9289 Pregnancy is after conception? really? Can you find a source that says that scientifically? And how is it only capable of becoming a human if a woman wants to carry it to term? We have the right to decide when it's ok to kill a human? How is it more of a person just because it was "born"? Passing through the mother is only another part of it's continued life until its 10..then 20..then 40, then an old man/woman at 85.
@Bluebelle9289 So it's abstract matter when it's inside the woman, even at 9 months, and as soon as she pushes it out it's miraculously a human? That sounds like some religious psycho bullshit to me, buddy. It's certainly not logical or scientific.
It's not "miraculous." It's basic biology. Biologically, realistically and logically a fetus is not a human. It's a mass of cells. Even at 9 months it's not a human. If fetuses were humans we wouldn't have birthdays, we'd have conception days, which is stupid because no one knows how long it takes the sperm to reach the egg.
There are two types of abortions - First trimester and late-term. First trimesters are the most common abortion performed. Late-term abortions are very rare. They're only performed if the mother's life is in danger or if the fetus is going to be stillborn or born with a life-threatening disability. The reason for this is because the fetus is considered viable - meanign if it were born premature it could, but not definitely, survive outside the uterus.
Aside from that, it's stupid to give a mass of cells more rights than the human carrying it. If a woman or girl wants to end her pregnancy, she has the right to do so and you don't have the right to prevent her from doing so.
@Bluebelle9289 I never said that I should have the right to tell women what to do with their own bodies. My point was that your belief that a "foetus" only becomes a "human" once it's pushed out of the vagina is absolutely ridiculous. What about premature births? Do we say "Ah, it's not human yet, stamp on it and try again." ?
@Bluebelle9289 And what about miscarriages? Is the woman's pain at having lost their (non) child any less because "it's not really human yet"?
What if a pregnant woman gets attacked, punched in the stomach, and loses the baby. She's devastated, as many women would be. How should we punish the attacker? Simple assault? Did he just hit the woman and make her tummy hurt? Or did he do more than that?
@Bluebelle9289 Your assumptions betray the kind of argument you're trying to put forward. You assume that I must be a religious woman-hating zealot who thinks abortion should be illegal and murderers should be put on death row. I'm not. I don't think abortion should be illegal; I think people should have more respect for their own bodies, think about the consequences of their actions, and that our culture of abortion as birth control should be stemmed before it goes too far.
@okichobiwan A 30 year old reference. I know the site you got that quote from. They haven't got any recent citations because only ancient ones work for anti-choice arguments!
No but you do need a degree in biology, or at least a passing grade in high school and college, to know that a fetus is not a human and neither is a zygote, an egg, a sperm, or cell [or group of cells] of any kind.
@okichobiwan No; it doesn't have the ability to maintain life on its own. Kinda necessary for life. And no, there is NO reaction to stimuli until close to the third or into the third trimester. See my other comments for details.
Im pro-life Responsibility defintely cause thats a good start, I think the bottom line is love though to think about the littl person inside of you above any reasons love is the greatest and is a choice
That's good. But there's also just as much of a chance that they will be born into the opposite.
I see exactly where you're coming from. I am 100% pro choice, but I think that people shouldn't just be like how you stated in like the last few seconds. That's something I like to call irresponsibility.
But unfortunately this issue is really black or white.
Anyways, I really appreciate that you aren't "crazy." I disagree with pro-life, but you have no idea how much just that makes me respect you.
So your argument is that we're better than animals thus we should be sophisticated & be responsible. Okay I agree that we should try to be personally responsible, but having a law against abortion is not personal. So as a group then we should be responsible. Agreed. But then a sad sad fact exists which shows that personal choice ends up benefiting all of us more by stopping future crime. Freakonomics book has more detail but just search youtube for "Freaconomics Abortion Crime"
@b0ondockz
Let's take a look at the "rational" things you have said so far:
1) I'm a dumb bitch.
2) Biological bodies develop because they want to, as opposed to due to natural processes.
3) Ur killin babiez!
Out of the three, two were unfounded and one was completely made up. In the meantime, I have tried to engage you in complex philosophical theories of personhood, which you have refused to acknowledge. Doesn't look good to me.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans It didn't say "Biological bodies develop because they WANT TO," did it? I may have to call in sick to work. They really can't get out of the dark-ages can they? Their brains are broken and they need to get some help.
EatMAndSml 4 days ago
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@EatMAndSml "Although small, a fetus even in it's earliest stages is a complex array of cells that are striving to grow & further develop. If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort. That's because it is a living thing, living things tend to want to keep living & keep growing." - @b0ondockz
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Well let's look at some of the "rational" philosophical theories you've presented thus far. 1) I'm going to go pick up a handle of vodka, lie down in bed and weep for humanity. 2) Without rape, your awesome millionaire friend wouldn't be around, so I guess rape is pretty cool. 3) Human DNA does not a person make.
Yeah, you sound real intelligent.
b0ondockz 4 days ago
For the amount of stuff you said, you somehow managed to make no valid arguments. Looks like political major was the right choice for you.
Calling a fetus a child is not an argument. Overall majority of abortions are done before 22 weeks (wikipedia). Fetus brain can feel pain after 24 weeks (study by UK Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists).
olegkikin 4 days ago
@olegkikin Hahaha the political thing is so true. Bones.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@EatMAndSml I just glanced through this guy's other videos, and he actually says something about 666 being in every bar code. I should have known I was dealing with. Excuse me, I'm going to go pick up a handle of vodka, lie down in bed and weep for humanity.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Nauseating isn't it? lol
EatMAndSml 4 days ago
I just want to take a moment to thank @hinc1mike and @b0ondockz for making me feel really good about my own intelligence and really terrible about the future of the human race.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
Intense and well spoken. Forget the haters.
Ktar6869 5 days ago
Another crazy thought: why don't people who are against abortion in cases of rape START WORKING TO STOP RAPE so it won't even be an issue anymore? Oh wait, but without rape, your awesome millionaire friend wouldn't be around, so I guess rape is pretty cool.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans no joke i think your to clever for YOUR own good
hinc1mike 6 days ago
@hinc1mike I'm sorry, but from your position you can never even begin to understand what it is to live every day in fear of rape, let alone the idea of having a child with absolutely no choice in the matter. We live in a rape culture, and until that ends for good, there WILL be abortions. Therefore, I ask you to please take a little more time to condemn rape. I apologize for the snark.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@hinc1mike Don't know about that, but definitely too clever for yours.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans i had to use my app dictionary to define condescending and I come off as having a superior attitude towards others? Consider/ponder this notion. Instead of using your words as a negative slingshot to affect ones emotions in a negative way, use input that helps others.
hinc1mike 5 days ago
@hinc1mike I'm not sure what baffles me more - the fact that you had to look up condescending or the fact that you didn't realize that I wasn't talking to you. My post said @b0ondockz. NOT YOU, not to mention that you are not the one who's been saying LOL. And why don't you make the same comment about helpful input to boonfuck, who has certainly contributed more hostility and less substance to this discussion than I? Oh, right...because he agrees with you!
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@hinc1mike I would also like to point out that all of the reasonable posts I've made presenting logical arguments against you, you have happily ignored. Please, by all means continue just seeing what you want to see and ignoring all reason against you. Like a good, true Christian.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
You guys, listen, I just had....guys listen guys...I just had the craziest...guys listen...I just had the craziest, most terrifying insight ever....What if Einstein's mom had been abstinent?
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
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EatMAndSml 6 days ago
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@LiverWithFavaBeans At the very least 300000 people wouldn't have died.
EatMAndSml 6 days ago
@EatMAndSml Hahahaha, nice one. Causality really is a funny thing.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
also I dident investigate the co -relation between atheists and abortion. I bet I can find some juicy stuff on that.
hinc1mike 1 week ago
@hinc1mike Like what? I think it's well-established that atheists, due to not believing in the soul, have a very different concept of personhood from most people, so yes their stats will reflect that. But why ever would that be juicy?
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
HEY GUYS THIS IS THE ONLY VID I CARE ABOUT WITH GETTING MORE LIKES THEN DISLIKES. IF YOUR FOR LIFE AND NOT DEATH PLEASE GIVE A THUMBS UP.
hinc1mike 1 week ago
So a blob of cells is a child ? Are you opposed to people cutting out their tumors too? What about the rape victims that will end up hating their child or end up putting the child through a broken foster care system. What about the mothers that will DIE because the blob of cells could be deadly to her? It's not your body that the cells are growing in, it's not your fucking right to choose.
np42293 1 week ago
Are people really that deluded that, to this day, they still bring the the 'potential; of the would-be child? "He could have saved millions, cured cancer and solved world hunger! But he was aborted!" Yes, he could have... But he also could have slaughtered millions, increased world hunger and developed a new strain of, even deadlier, cancer. The whole "what if" argument is irrational and needless.
TheLegendOfRandy 1 week ago 2
@TheLegendOfRandy its a simple concept were just not understanding. its not that hard to figure out. What happens when a baby is born? it lives. what happens when a baby gets aborted? it dies. Its life and death. I chose life, so pick a choice and remember your decision echos an eternity........
hinc1mike 6 days ago
@hinc1mike I understand the concept, perfectly. No disrespect, it's just a needless and pointless thing to bring up. "What if Jesus was aborted?" And "What if Hitler was aborted?" The two have one thing in common, neither were aborted. We could argue about "What if" for a lifetime, but a "What if," I'm sorry to say, is always a "Never was." It's utterly pointless to complain about "what could-have-been," I just say stick to the intelligible facts if your going to argue your case.
TheLegendOfRandy 6 days ago
@hinc1mike No, Mike, I'm sorry but one must live before one can die. Yes, perhaps it dies a biological death, as do cells and bacteria and all animals, but that is not what we are worrying about - it is only an issue when we are talking about personal death. A fetus is biologically human, but in what way is it a person? Like all of us, I came from a fetus, and I have absolutely no memory of that time in my biological life because I was not yet a person and could not care whether I lived or died.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Holy fuck, you're going to try and reason with it? Well, I made that mistake too and it turned around and played the victim card on me. The fucking idiot is telling you to stick to facts as it presents “what if” scenarios. This is why I don’t debate these shitbags for very long. Don’t make it analyze its facts it ruins it's agenda. Anywho, let me know when it hangs itself up on the cross again. Toodles.
EatMAndSml 5 days ago
@EatMAndSml I've noticed he tends to ignore the posts that actually present real arguments. I'm just hoping others will see my posts and think a little.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans You're much more of an optimist then I am. I have to go after that shitbag boondumb for a little while. Nothing to do with you but something it puked up.
EatMAndSml 5 days ago
@EatMAndSml I'm not really all that optimistic. My philosophy is that assholes will be assholes and morons will be morons, but that doesn't mean we should make it easy for them. Boondumb really is a phenomenon in both realms, though, I must say. Thanks for sticking around, though - being the only sane person in a space makes me vaguely suicidal.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans LMAO I'm the asshole type. I normally give them "kind of" an opportunity to have some thought in the beginning but they always prove to be a fucking hypocrite with in the very first response. I'm convinced their brains are broken. Something isn't connecting properly (down there). ;)
EatMAndSml 5 days ago
Also, I love how people never acknowledge the lost potential for the woman. Having a child when one is not in a stable situation can keep her from pursuing her own influence on the world. Being forced to give birth following rape can lead to severe emotional problems and even social stigmatization that could cripple her future.
LiverWithFavaBeans 1 week ago
Humanistic bullshit.
There are millions of people - potential millionaires, geniuses, and serial killers - who will never exist for the simple reason of having never been conceived. Would we think it were a tragedy if the same woman having an abortion has never even conceived the child? Probably not. So what is the difference? It can't think yet, it has no sense of self, and does not even have a developed enough nervous system to feel pain, so it's not losing anything. Where is the deprivation?
LiverWithFavaBeans 1 week ago
53 million thumbs-up... One for each child lost since Roe -v- Wade.
BeeZee2 2 weeks ago
@BeeZee2 Wow shocking statistic
hinc1mike 1 week ago
Do you want know why its disturbing for a guy to tell a women to have a baby she doesn't want (maybe b/c she doesn't want to be sentenced to a life of poverty & get an education)? 77% of antiabortion leaders are men, 100% cannot get pregnant. If u get a girl pregnant, u can leave- our laws don't do a good job of enforcing men to own up to their responsibilities. A fetus is not more important than woman. Not every woman is physically healthy enough for kids -ex: kidney disease
lisaroggenbuck 2 weeks ago
A woman who is FORCIBLY impregnated by a disgusting fuck should not be then FORCED to have the attackers baby. Why? Because of some rape baby is now helping ppl in Africa? What if Hitler's mom told u she was going to abort him but you ppl told her not to? Disgusting, how dare you. BTW speaking of politics, our govt & corporations decide everyday who has the right to live just b/c their wallets might get light -Now THAT is horrific.
lisaroggenbuck 2 weeks ago
Listen, in the terrible hurtful cases of rape no abortion is not the answer. Same thing with incest.
hinc1mike 2 weeks ago
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enilec68 2 weeks ago
I submit becoming atheist is not beneficial to one's happiness. Gallup Polls in the U.S. published in October and December of 2010 present statistical data showing people who are considered “highly religious” are happier, mentally more stable, and less prone to serious depression.
hinc1mike 3 weeks ago
@hinc1mike and I have lots more fun when I'm drunk. You can be deluded and happy but how can you say you're concerned about the truth?
Dynamica2013 3 weeks ago
@hinc1mike Why don't you tell people WHY atheists are prone to depression? Or are you happy with your unexplained fact that gets your desired effect? May be it was just your happiness that kept you from presenting all the evidence of what you’re trying to insinuate.
EatMAndSml 1 week ago
@EatMAndSml I cited a stat, that has bearing. Your what I call a twister. Twisting things in different ways to make a argument. I guarantee it surprised you to see one of the best stat sites Gallop say that. The only way to legit counter that is push a different stat against it back at me. And do self examination. Are you a atheist? and are you not happy ?
hinc1mike 1 week ago
@hinc1mike I didn't twist anything but holy fuck you sure did, but I'm used to that. I didn’t say the gallop poll was wrong and I didn't say anything that would come close to changing your facts. You and I both know why you decided to attack me in this way rather then just answer the simple question “Why are atheists more prone to depression?” which has NO bearing what so ever on the gallop pole numbers. It would be analyzing the evidence YOU presented. I'm done with you, fuck off.
EatMAndSml 6 days ago
@EatMAndSml ok im sorry i misunderstood you wtf????? so you want an answer or no
hinc1mike 6 days ago
ALSO, WHY WORRY ABOUT OR GIVE LIFE TO A ----- THATS JUST GOING TO DIE IN THE END ANYWAY.... IF I HAD A CHOICE (AND I HAVE A GREAT LIFE) I WOULD CHOSE TO HAVE NEVER EXISTED
playherone 1 month ago
@playherone Bro that's not a good way to look at life we all need to sit back and realize we have a lot to be thankful for despite the shitty things that may happen in our lives, also back to my original point the women does not have the right to choose life or death for a CHILD WHO CANNOT SPEAK OR DEFEND ITSELF.
hinc1mike 1 month ago
@hinc1mike for a child with no intelligence, awareness, or consciousness for that matter.
Dynamica2013 3 weeks ago
@hinc1mike the thing is ... its not a child, and she can choose whether or not to suffer through 9 months of puking, feeling disgusted with her body, not being able to drink, smoke, or even work at a normal capacity. You say that the fetus could potentially cure cancer or some, but a huuuuge majority of those born into families who originally wanted abortions eventually turn out to be criminals and murderers, and theres always the chance of a future hitler
np42293 1 week ago
@np42293 You're naming rare cases really. And the whole thing with the pregnancy, that's just stereotyping pregnancy, they aren't all like that so dnt act as if they are ya know. It's rare for a child to grow up becoming a murderer and even slimmer chance of a "future Hitler". Be more realistic please.
KasaiKendia 1 week ago
@KasaiKendia Yea future hitler isn't realistic, but future humanitarian that saves lives and cures cancer is?(i gave the hitler example due to him giving a random example of some influential person from a rape baby). Also, Are you implying that rape victims don't deserve their choice? Rare cases does not exempt them from being human beings who experience it.
On another note it is NOT rare, for an unprepared single teen mother or a rape victim mother to give birth to criminal,STATISTICS
np42293 4 days ago
@np42293 All I'm saying is that you never know what a child can grow up to be, they can grow up to be a statistic or grow up and succeed past that statistic that was set for them. Nope, not saying rape victims don't deserve a choice, don't even go there. But I still don't nor will I ever, agree with an abortion that isn't going to save a life.
KasaiKendia 2 days ago
@KasaiKendia since Roe vs. Wade, crime has dropped substantially, although you could argue that it's a mere correlation, the fact remains that after abortion, there has been less people growing up to become criminals. Look up the statistics.
np42293 4 days ago
@np42293 Less people growing up to become criminals? Man Idk about you but all I see are kids getting worse and worse every generation. Not like things are getting better like you're making it seem.
KasaiKendia 2 days ago
@KasaiKendia well considering that the population is growing every year, it would make sense that the amount of people committing crimes would increase. I'm saying like 1 per how many thousand people's crime rate has decreased. Also on the abortion thing, i agree with you that it's taking a life, only when the baby actually feels the pain such as in an late term abortion, those shouldn't be allowed unless in extreme medical cases, but aborting a zygote is hardly the same thign as aborting a baby
np42293 1 day ago
@np42293 Taking any kind of innocent life unnecessarily is messed up, no matter what stage it's at. Besides, most women don't even find out they're pregnant till about 4 weeks and then they sit and think over their decisions for about another week or more. Can't even tell if you're pregnant in the early stages sometimes, but anyway it don't matter what stage it's at, life is life.
KasaiKendia 1 day ago
@KasaiKendia
"life is life."
If that's your game, I seriously hope you don't eat animals.
LiverWithFavaBeans 15 hours ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Yep, I sho do eat meat. Chicken, Pig, Cow every once in a while. Need meat to survive, though I do wish they were treated better.
KasaiKendia 12 hours ago
@hinc1mike Or think, or desire to continue living.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@playherone wow
KasaiKendia 1 week ago
GENIUS UNTIL YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT ABORTION
playherone 1 month ago
@playherone thanks bro
hinc1mike 6 days ago
The difference between humans and animals is the ability to think-make a choice. You make the point that one man concieved from rape has done good-so what he coudl have been another dictator like hitler. A womans right to choice what she does with her own body is her business, not yours.
vaseline162 1 month ago
ABORTION IS MURDER. Look what God did for Tim Tebow's parents who decided to not listen to people who wold them to abort their child.Anyone see pics of the cloud halo miles above mile-high stadium? A clear sign of God's love for the humble Tim Tebow & how important He feels each child is, no matter how they're conceived.Yes, NO MATTER HOW. We're not the judge of who lives or dies, God is,but some people make themselves their own God. Thankfully, more abortion clinics are closing every day.
ProphecySDarko 1 month ago
@ProphecySDarko Murder is the unlawful premedetated killing of one person by another. Abortion is lawful, and a fetus is not a person. So abortion is NOT murder.
vaseline162 1 month ago
@vaseline162 A fetus IS a person. It doesn't grow into a cow. It's clearly murdered because the 'host' knows if it is allows to grow, it's going to be born and will have to be nurtured and raised. Even Romans didn't kill pregnant women and considered the blood of the womb sacred. They allowed the innocent child to be born, and then the woman was killed for whatever reason. ABORTION IS SOCIOPATHIC, and the supporters care nothing for the unborn child. IT'S MURDER, not lawful by GOD.
ProphecySDarko 1 month ago
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@ProphecySDarko Murder is the unlawful premedetated killing of one person by another. Abortion is lawful, and a fetus is not a person. So abortion is NOT murder.
vaseline162 1 month ago
@ProphecySDarko says: A clear sign of God's love for the humble Tim Tebow & how important He feels each child is, no matter how they're conceived.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What in the hell does that say about the ones who WERE aborted?? I'll tell you what it says..it say God was all for it. And, I CANNOT believe an adult would use Tebow as a mean of defending abortion. How utterly childish and unsophisticated. How old are you?
Sueezee1 1 month ago
@Sueezee1 Youre confused. Doctors wanted Tebow aborted for your information & because he was 'kept' God exalted him to greatness as a reward to his parents.Yet Tebow humbly gives all credit for his fame to God. God is definitely NOT for abortion.Thou Shalt Not Kill. And God holds all of the aborted souls in His loving arms. He gave man free will, and many choose sin and death, unfortunately. Excuse me, but ugly words are a clear sign of immaturity. Praying for you. ABORTION IS MURDER.
ProphecySDarko 1 month ago
Rape/incest victims can't "plan ahead". If you were pregnant you wouldn't want someone you don't even know telling you what to do with your body.
RuleofFive 1 month ago 2
@RuleofFive I was raped as a kid and though I didn't get pregnant, I wouldn't kill my child even if I had become pregnant. That just gives him more control over you, you're so scared of something that is supposed to be a miracle that you end it's life. Instead of moving past it and giving the child a chance to live, you let him control your body again and you kill the baby. That's just how I see it though, obviously not all rape victims feel the same way.
KasaiKendia 2 weeks ago
totally agree
lilly3541 1 month ago
Do you have a dick, oh yeaa , its on ur head
elzbells10 1 month ago 3
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@elzbells10 says: Do you have a dick, oh yeaa , its on ur head
~~~~~~~~~~~
I Always enjoy the deep, intellectual comments of probirthers. LOL
Sueezee1 4 weeks ago
Amen to this!
TheHappyGunsling 1 month ago
ok, I know this is totally unrelated, but what is going on with your eyebrows?
ingaramo25 2 months ago
ever single thing any person has ever done or said was for their own selfish reasons.
81sams 2 months ago
I hate pro lifers for real.
enilec68 2 months ago 2
@enilec68 I'm pro-life, but I don't hate people who are pro-choice. Come on man, why you hatin? Just to let you know, the only reason I am pro-life is because I think the baby deserves rights, not because of my religion. Peace
DP3mo24hofosho 1 month ago
@DP3mo24hofosho I dont like pro-lifers because they dont take into consideration a woman's right. I've never had an abortion, but know many people who even on pills and using other protection still got pregnant. If you feel the time's not right that's it, you do what you have to do.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 This is a tough issue. I think in the end it comes down to which is more important, the woman's right to choose or the baby's right to live. I think that the child's life is more important and if you can't afford to keep the child, put it up for adoption instead of ending it's life. Now I don't believe all abortions should be illegal, if the woman's life is at risk, then she sould have the right to defend herself and have the abortion. Also, I'm okay with the morning after pill
DP3mo24hofosho 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 Why do you hate pro-lifers? What did we do to you exactly?
KasaiKendia 4 weeks ago
@KasaiKendia Nothing so far, but you guys scare the crap out of me. I'm scared that because of you, one day abortion will be illegal.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 You never answered as to why you're scared of me. What on Earth are scared of?
KasaiKendia 1 week ago
@KasaiKendia nothing, yet, but you guys scare me. You're too selfish and arrogant. You don't want to understand that accidents happen, and sometimes people get pregnant even when they take pills. If you're not ready to have a kid that's it, you get an abortion.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 I scare you? Weird that the fact that a woman can just go and kill their baby so freely isn't scary as well. It's not that bad now, but with every generation it gets worse and worse, eventually people will just be able to have the procedure and have no feelings afterwards. I understand accidents happen, I'm in high school and have seen numerous pregnancies that were unplanned. It's so sad that people can just kill so easily. I really don't see what's so scary about me.
KasaiKendia 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 How old are you?
Elikam82 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 Why? Because they cherish the gift of life and you shit on it?
b0ondockz 2 weeks ago
@b0ondockz No, because you dont care about a woman's right to choose. I have never had an abortion in my life, and I wish I never have to. But I like to know that if one day I need to get one done, I can go ahead and do it.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@b0ondockz No, because you take away a woman's freedom to choose. I have never had an abortion, and hope I never ever have to get one because it's something everyone must avoid. However, I know many people who, even taking birth control pills, have gotten pregnant. You, pro-lifers, scare the crap out of me with your selfishness and lack of reason. You have to understand that accidents happen, and it's totally acceoptable for a woman to decide whether she wants to have a child or not.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 You think wanting to spare a baby's life is scary? What's scary is that you think because you're a woman you get to choose whether you kill your baby or not. What's scary is that over 50 million babies (more deaths than the holocaust), have been killed since 1973 because women like you think it's their right to kill their offspring like a savage and toss it in the trash. Hmm what's scarier, wanting to stop this or wanting to let it continue? Wake up.
b0ondockz 2 weeks ago
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@b0ondockz Fetuses cannot feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation because they haven't formed the necessary nerve pathways, says Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at the University of California at San Francisco" You, and most pro-lifers are awhole bunch of psychopaths! Having an abortion at an early stage is like slicing a fruit a half or something like that, the embryo doesn't feel anaything. If your argument is that just because it's a new life makes it a
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@b0ondockz it makes it a murder, then, everytime you kill a mosquito, or a roah you're commiting murder.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 Did you just equate killing your child to killing a mosquito? Well, I'm not surprised you decided to take that irrational turn in our conversation. That's usually what pro choicers do, and that's why it's so difficult to talk sense into them. If you ever have kids, I hope you regard them to higher standards than an insect.
b0ondockz 2 weeks ago
@b0ondockz Yeah, the only difference is that the people in the Holocaust actually knew what was happening to them and felt the pain and sorrow. DON'T YOU DARE ever compare the situation my family went through to the termination of mere potential with less self-awareness than a fucking goldfish, you insensitive prick.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans I already did compare it. So fuck off you big mouthed bitch. You're family can rot in hell like the "unaware goldfish" they are.
b0ondockz 6 days ago
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LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@b0ondockz Brilliant response! Spoken like a truly mature individual - who really values life and kindness, at that. Way to prove yourself. Your argument there is absolutely infallible. I guess I'll have to change my mind about abortion now, you're obviously so rational and clear-thinking, how could you ever be wrong!
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans You really are a dumb bitch aren't you?
b0ondockz 5 days ago
@b0ondockz No, I actually think myself quite intelligent. I'll cop to being a bitch, though - particularly in the sense that I absolutely refuse to put up with fuckery from idiots like you. I'm a fabulous, intelligent bitch and you have NOTHING on me.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans No, you're just a dumb bitch. There's nothing fabulous or intelligent about you. That's the problem with most liberals/pro choicers/fucktards, you think you and your ideas are so special and unique that you can win an argument without making any sense. You think it's your "right" to kill your own child, and that it should be a normal occurrence. I'm not religious, I don't subscribe to any political party, but I can still see how fucked up abortion is.
b0ondockz 5 days ago
@b0ondockz Did you even read a word I said? I never mentioned rights - I said that it was not a person, and I gave a damn good reason (several actually) for why I believe that. You are the one who seems to think that you can win an argument without actually presenting real arguments. Until you can address my argument and respond maturely, I will not even consider changing my views and will continue to treat you like the annoying little shit you are.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Unfortunately I did read what you said. You can "believe" whatever you want, but it's a scientific fact that a fetus has the DNA of a human therefore it is a human. When you have an abortion you are killing a human being even though it's in it's earliest stages of development. So, you can say all the stupid crap you want it, but it doesn't change that fact. Pretty unbelievable that you can't realize when you get pregnant you are carrying a human.
b0ondockz 5 days ago
@b0ondockz Human DNA does not a person make. It must have a mind, and the cerebrum does not develop until the third trimester. Until then, it has less desire to live than the animals you eat every day. It is wrong to kill persons because of their desire to live, not because of the type of DNA they have. Fetuses have no such desire.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans A fetus begins developing a brain & neural pathways at 8 weeks. Like all organisms, including adult humans, it's made up of cells. Although small, a fetus even in it's earliest stages is a complex array of cells that are striving to grow & further develop. If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort. That's because it is a living thing, living things tend to want to keep living & keep growing. It's a shame you place such a low value on life.
b0ondockz 4 days ago
@b0ondockz "If it had no desire to live it would not make this effort."
Good god, have you ever taken biology? THESE ARE CHEMICAL PROCESSES! Biological growth is NOT caused by desire! Otherwise I'd be a lot taller.
And I did not say the brain - I said the cerebrum, the part of the brain that gives us consciousness, reason, desire, and other mental factors that make the human mind unique among the animals. An 8-week fetus does not have this.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans I didn't say desire causes biological growth. My point was, anything alive, even at the smallest level (a cell), operates solely to keep the organism alive so apparently there is some sort of desire built into organisms to live. You're the one who said it has no "desire" to live because it doesn't realize it's alive. Does that mean we should let people kill their babies even a few months after birth because they can't realize they are alive?
b0ondockz 4 days ago
@b0ondockz By desire I meant volition - a strictly psychological function. Frankly, if I could not think, I would not care about being alive in any way that mattered. I already told you that this applies before six months of gestation, before the cerebrum is developed making volition possible, so don't bring up post-birth babies. Abortions after six months are rare and usually only in special cases, so I don't think it is the key issue here.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@b0ondockz It's a shame that you are an irrational being.
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Look who's talking.
b0ondockz 4 days ago
@b0ondockz omg thats sooo wrong !!! but i did laugh at that one
hinc1mike 5 days ago
@b0ondockz Also I love how you quoted me in a completely nonsensical context. The only way you, good sir, will ever win an argument is by choking your opponent with your pure, unadulterated stupidity. If you actually wish to convince anyone that abortion is wrong, change your game NOW.
LiverWithFavaBeans 6 days ago
@LiverWithFavaBeans Liver with fava beans ???? Omg i was cracking up
hinc1mike 6 days ago
@b0ondockz Comparing abortions with the holocaust, what a fucking idiot. But lets talk about your 50 million murdered babies since 1973 for a moment shall we shitbag? Why be pleasant, You're picking numbers out of your ass for affect only. All the pregnant teens I know believe in god. Theists have the majority in the US population and are the ones that preach against birth control, so statistically that means theists are murdering most of those babies.You believe in god mother fucker?
EatMAndSml 5 days ago
@EatMAndSml Who said anything about God you stupid fuck? Also, I didn't make the number 50 million up, it was put forth by organizations like The Alan Gutmacher Institute, which is a pro choice organization, a division of Planned Parenthood LOL. Go look it up on their website you dumb shit. Is that what you call picking numbers out of my ass LOL?
b0ondockz 5 days ago
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LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@b0ondockz Stop saying LOL. Your attempts at being condescending come off as crazed desperation.
LiverWithFavaBeans 5 days ago
@b0ondockz I didn't say you made the number up did I you stupid mother fucker? (spin) I said you pulled it out of your ass because you didn't think (key word) about how the number came to be. Did it hurt your feelings when I asked "Do you believe in god mother fucker?" because you realized it's people like YOU with YOUR beliefs doing most of the killing? But once again an obvious theist won't answer a question, only bitch spin and play the victim. Poor little broken minded you.
EatMAndSml 4 days ago
@EatMAndSml Pulling something out of your ass means making it up, so it looks like you're still the stupid mother fucker. What's the matter? You can't handle statistics? 50 million babies aborted, I guess you can't wrap your fucking head around that number, so it'll go in one ear and out the other like anything factual. It would take a lot more than a key board warrior like you to hurt my feelings. I'm not religious, so keep trying. Fucking loser. You gunna cry? You mad? LOL
b0ondockz 4 days ago
@b0ondockz Why would they cry?
LiverWithFavaBeans 4 days ago
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EatMAndSml 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@b0ondockz You’re defending sperm. Your brain is so broken that you believe a sperm is a baby.THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. You and all people that think like you now have to relinquish your right to have sex. From here on your kind can only have a child by surgically removing 1 sperm to inject into an egg. Other wise you’re killing millions of BABIES so that only 1 MIGHT live. No more orgasms for males that think like you because in YOU‘RE words it‘s like the holocaust. Now, fuck off.
EatMAndSml 4 days ago
@enilec68 You pro-choicers scare me too! Once the child is conceived it's not a choice anymore. You already have the child! These feminist rants are crazy! Susan B. Anthony was a feminist before Margaret Sanger (birth control inventor) and not even Anthony believed in abortions. Then Sanger came along and invented her birth control and in effect planned parenthood sold birth control and abortions along with it, but mainly abortions.
Elikam82 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 The abortions have caused millions of unborn babies not come into the world and it's not fair to the millions of them. It's not that hard to not get pregnant, just buy some freakin' birth control or don't sleep around when you're ovulating. All these crazy Planned Parenthood quacks don't tell people the facts cause they are making blood money off the abortions, by taking advantage of women's reproduction issues. There are only 3 damn days out of the month (at best) for pregnancy.
Elikam82 2 weeks ago
@enilec68 It's not rocket science!!!! People should just go ask a doctor. Abortions aren't necessary. The people who get them do so, because they are being selfish and not taking responsibility for their actions. That's why pro-lifers get so passionate about it, it doesn't even have to be a religion argument. It can be a biology argument as well.
Elikam82 2 weeks ago
@Elikam82 As i said before, it's not like i don't consider abortions something you should avoid. of course you should avoid them. They're costly, and the jeopardize a woman's reproductive system. But again, I know many people who haven gotten pregnant even when they're on birth control pills. I'd rather not be born than be born and then live in a household hold where my parents are only 18/19 yrs older than me, inmature, and don't know what they're doing.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@Elikam82 or even worse, find out once i'm old enough that i'm adopted because my biological parents didn't want me, so they gave me away. That hurts a lot. It hurts 10x more than being aborted as a fetus. As a matter fact, embryos don't even experience pain until they're like 28weeks old.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
@Elikam82 oh, i forgot, I'm 21 yrs old. I've never had an abortion in my life, and hope i never have to get one.
enilec68 2 weeks ago
What about the victim of incest who births a baby who DOESN'T help millions of people and ends up with down syndrome (or something of the like).
xxjasondanielxx 2 months ago
@xxjasondanielxx Down's Syndrome is the result of a mutation, not incest. Just so you know!
dustybeijing 1 month ago
@dustybeijing
Ha. Not sure what my comment was. You're right. But incest can cause just as fucked up things to happen! They are Downs syndrome-esque scenarios. But I wasn't entirely sure of the names of such illnesses/syndromes.
xxjasondanielxx 1 month ago
You make no sense. First you say that humans are animals (what seperates us from the animal kingdom? Nothing...we dont rule the world lolol dont make me fucking laugh), then you start ranting about rights. If animals dont have rights then neither do humans. A womans "choice" is nothing more than a desire. If she has the money to pay someone, then shes gonna do it. Dont like it? Stop her then. Why? Because life is about the power to say what gets done.
vidfreak56 2 months ago
What gives you the right as a man to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body?
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
Good for you, man. I totally agree. Why people don't want to recognize a baby inside the womb as a human life is beyond me.
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@okichobiwan
Because it's not a human life.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 Actually, it is! :D When 23 chromosomes from the woman unite with 23 chromosomes from the man, a zygote is formed, it IS biologically alive, and, more importantly, is fulfills the four criteria needed to establish life: metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction.
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@okichobiwan
It's "alive" on the same level as a blood cell. It, however, is not a human. Also, the reaction to stimuli doesn't occur until much later in the pregnancy. And the reproduction of cells, is nothing like the reproduction - otherwise known as "fucking" - that humans engage in.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 Ok, so ...your'e proving my point. The reproduction of cells is NOT the same as the reproduction possible for a human being for the exact reason that it is not alive like a zygote (human) is alive. A cell, or a growth, or wart..whatever- it may be alive but it cannot become a human being. Even if you left all the technicalities of the "exact" moment when it is a human aside..what else will it become? A dog? A horse? Of course not. It is a growing *human*being with equal rights.
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@okichobiwan
Wow, you really are that stupid. A zygote is not a human. It's a cell, much like a red blood cell. It's not anymore alive than a daisy popping from a crack in the sidewalk is. Go back to school, retake biology, and educate yourself.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 Hey Grumpy! Check it out: "Pregnancy begins at conception, the time at which the male sperm and the female ovum unite. What results is called a zygote, a one-celled biological entity, a stage in *human* development through which each of us has passed (just as we have passed through infancy, childhood, and adolescence)"
-F. Beck, D. B. Moffat, and D. P. Davies, Human Embryology, Second edition (Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1985)
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@okichobiwan
Pregnancy begins after conception, not at. Until it is born, a fetus isn't a human. It only has human DNA and the potential to become a human - if the woman wants to carry it to term.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 Pregnancy is after conception? really? Can you find a source that says that scientifically? And how is it only capable of becoming a human if a woman wants to carry it to term? We have the right to decide when it's ok to kill a human? How is it more of a person just because it was "born"? Passing through the mother is only another part of it's continued life until its 10..then 20..then 40, then an old man/woman at 85.
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 So it's abstract matter when it's inside the woman, even at 9 months, and as soon as she pushes it out it's miraculously a human? That sounds like some religious psycho bullshit to me, buddy. It's certainly not logical or scientific.
dustybeijing 2 months ago
@dustybeijing
It's not "miraculous." It's basic biology. Biologically, realistically and logically a fetus is not a human. It's a mass of cells. Even at 9 months it's not a human. If fetuses were humans we wouldn't have birthdays, we'd have conception days, which is stupid because no one knows how long it takes the sperm to reach the egg.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@dustybeijing
There are two types of abortions - First trimester and late-term. First trimesters are the most common abortion performed. Late-term abortions are very rare. They're only performed if the mother's life is in danger or if the fetus is going to be stillborn or born with a life-threatening disability. The reason for this is because the fetus is considered viable - meanign if it were born premature it could, but not definitely, survive outside the uterus.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@dustybeijing
Aside from that, it's stupid to give a mass of cells more rights than the human carrying it. If a woman or girl wants to end her pregnancy, she has the right to do so and you don't have the right to prevent her from doing so.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 I never said that I should have the right to tell women what to do with their own bodies. My point was that your belief that a "foetus" only becomes a "human" once it's pushed out of the vagina is absolutely ridiculous. What about premature births? Do we say "Ah, it's not human yet, stamp on it and try again." ?
dustybeijing 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 And what about miscarriages? Is the woman's pain at having lost their (non) child any less because "it's not really human yet"?
What if a pregnant woman gets attacked, punched in the stomach, and loses the baby. She's devastated, as many women would be. How should we punish the attacker? Simple assault? Did he just hit the woman and make her tummy hurt? Or did he do more than that?
dustybeijing 2 months ago
@Bluebelle9289 Your assumptions betray the kind of argument you're trying to put forward. You assume that I must be a religious woman-hating zealot who thinks abortion should be illegal and murderers should be put on death row. I'm not. I don't think abortion should be illegal; I think people should have more respect for their own bodies, think about the consequences of their actions, and that our culture of abortion as birth control should be stemmed before it goes too far.
dustybeijing 2 months ago
@okichobiwan A 30 year old reference. I know the site you got that quote from. They haven't got any recent citations because only ancient ones work for anti-choice arguments!
funnyhaha71 1 month ago
@Bluebelle9289 A daisy cannot grow to become a man or woman. I don't need a degree in biology to figure that out.
okichobiwan 2 months ago
@okichobiwan
No but you do need a degree in biology, or at least a passing grade in high school and college, to know that a fetus is not a human and neither is a zygote, an egg, a sperm, or cell [or group of cells] of any kind.
Bluebelle9289 2 months ago
@okichobiwan No; it doesn't have the ability to maintain life on its own. Kinda necessary for life. And no, there is NO reaction to stimuli until close to the third or into the third trimester. See my other comments for details.
funnyhaha71 1 month ago
Who's sophisticated?
watermelonygoodness 2 months ago
Im pro-life Responsibility defintely cause thats a good start, I think the bottom line is love though to think about the littl person inside of you above any reasons love is the greatest and is a choice
inka365 2 months ago
That's good. But there's also just as much of a chance that they will be born into the opposite.
I see exactly where you're coming from. I am 100% pro choice, but I think that people shouldn't just be like how you stated in like the last few seconds. That's something I like to call irresponsibility.
But unfortunately this issue is really black or white.
Anyways, I really appreciate that you aren't "crazy." I disagree with pro-life, but you have no idea how much just that makes me respect you.
SpeedXaaa 2 months ago
So your argument is that we're better than animals thus we should be sophisticated & be responsible. Okay I agree that we should try to be personally responsible, but having a law against abortion is not personal. So as a group then we should be responsible. Agreed. But then a sad sad fact exists which shows that personal choice ends up benefiting all of us more by stopping future crime. Freakonomics book has more detail but just search youtube for "Freaconomics Abortion Crime"
CheapWannabe 2 months ago
your argument is really dumb. so one person wouldn't exist if he was aborted. guess what, we all wouldn't if we were aborted.
dblubarry 3 months ago
FAIL
1GTX1 3 months ago
I'm pro-coat hangers.
Viktir666 3 months ago